StarLost
StarLost
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301187#Comment_3301187
Well that is your problem right there. Information perks are super weak outside a small handful.
Really you want to rely on game sense rather than perks to position your killer across the map. They are also pretty redundant on low mobility killers. You can know people are on a gen across the map, and never be in a position to do anything about it.
Pain res is garbo. Not only is it RNG unless you run agitation too, but the rate you need to hook people for it to stop gens by itself is high enough that you would probably win using any other perk.
Weaker killers I recommend just using fixed stall perks, like Corrupt / Deadlock. Then you can throw gen defense to the wind and just tunnel people out, which is how weaker killers win. Only strong killers can really afford to be running gen kick builds because those are the only ones who will have time to kick gens against a good team
Eh?
I run maybe 3 slots on many killers dedicated to info.
I'm almost certainly forgetting a few but:
Lethal Pursuer. Amazing, and combined with any other aura perk has utility all game.
Nowhere to Hide. This will - almost guaranteed - get you an extra down or two every game. So, so good with LP.
Discordance. This almost never leaves my bars on any killer. This will help you tremendously midgame.
I'm All Ears. Nutso on ranged killers, especially Slinger and Huntress. Also Nemmy.
BBQ. A bit more niche, but Dredge, Sadako, Artist and Wraith all work well with it, again - use LP.
Again, probably forgetting a few.
@GiveMeTheBox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301198#Comment_3301198
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301313#Comment_3301313
Hm, alrighty! Thank you for the advice. I'll try messing around with these suggested perks and similar and see if anything sticks, maybe I'll have better luck next time I attempt Killer.
Here's a build tree I like for almost every killer.
Lethal Pursuer - gets you your first chase almost instantly. Plus, makes any other aura perk better. Nemesis, so $.
-OR-
Discordance - Nearly as good, can be bought for shards by leveling Legion.
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Call of Brine - Solid regression perk, plus some info. Sadako, so $
-OR-
Overcharge - Not as good, but pretty solid initially. Doctor.
-OR-
Surge/Jolt - Any non 'power' killer (so a killer that downs with standard attacks) works bloody well with this. Base perk.
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Fearmonger - This perk is oppressive, especially against solo players. I still get caught out by the exhaust. Base perk.
-OR-
Pentimento - monstrously powerful, but needs another hex perk to work. Artist. See below.
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Plaything - You either have stealth, or a platform for Pentimento. Incredible on any killer with side objectives, especially Wesker and Cenobite. Cenobite perk, so $
-Or-
Nowhere to Hide - Kick a gen, and you'll find the survivor that decided to hide near it. Knight.
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@UnluckyDucky said:
So I had a game where it was just me and the killer left, with 1 gen, hatch is closed, and I wasn't about to give up because I'm stubborn. So Im stealthing in the game because obviously looping the killer wont do ANYTHING for me, and I try to tap a gen when I can but he started circling the area very tightly, making it IMPOSSIBLE for me to even move anywhere for at least a minute or so and of course I get crow'd and my position is given away, I'm #########.
Its not often this happens, but it make me realize that if it does come down to where your only stradegy to survive is to hide, it seems a little unfair that you're going to be given away by the game. Yes I know survivors can "hostage" a game by hiding, but this wasn't the case. It was my only way to potentially even win--and the killer was literally within 10m of me the ENTIRE time. Its not like I was hiding in the corner of the map. It feels a little unfair to literally HAVE to hide so you DONT die, and the game punishes you for hiding anyway by revealing your position.
What can I do in this situation? Because I tried thinking back to what I could of done differently and short of making a break for it and somehow turn into a looping GOD and escaping a chase and re-hiding I have no way out of this. The game seems to really favor those who can loop over any other play style. Any advice? At the time, I didn't se any other viable option for me except to hide and try to finish the gen and open gate a la stealth mode.
These are fringe scenarios that unfortunately will happen from time to time, but with how often survivors go AFK in a locker to BM when they are losing the game, AFK crows are needed.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302011#Comment_3302011
Tbh it's a little broken. I've never had a bad game using that combo. I usually let last survivor go but if someone is sweating it then last surv better hope hatch spawns on top of them or it's game over lol
Eh...Demo's problem has never been finding people (Sticky Lining+Whistle basically gives you map-wide sonar if you place portals right).
His problem is catching people - with how punishing Shred is to use compared to more recent, similar abilities. He's still a fun killer, but it feels like the game has just left him behind over the past year.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301959#Comment_3301959
And when you're talking about Boil Over, are you referring to the first time it was ever buffed? Because that I can agree with.
BO after the rework, but before the first of many nerfs. That perk made Killer almost unplayable for a week. And it wasn't like Eruption which has counters and counterplay, even Iron Grasp and Agitation didn't help with people sending themselves to Eyrie with No Mither and chilling upstairs to stall the game out forever.
@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301888#Comment_3301888
Define most killers, because it sounds like you're talking about bottom tier killers. Any killer with any semblance of a chase power can hold a 3 gen very successfully. Other killers like Knight can pressure a very generous 3 gen. Strong chase killers can secure a down on a pressured gen assuming they've managed to deadzone the area around it. This is, of course, assuming survivors hit every single Overcharge check, and having to hit one every 20 seconds can quickly wear you down.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301927#Comment_3301927
My main issue is the perk shouldn't excel in 3 separate categories over perks that specialize in one of those categories. It shouldn't be a better slowdown than Deadlock, it shouldn't be a better reg than Pain Res, it shouldn't be a better info than Tremors.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301945#Comment_3301945
Weak killers are the ones that need to kick gens the most, and even the weakest killers in the game can be carried by the COB Overcharge Eruption trinity and a 3 gen.
The 3gen thing is something independent from COB and Eruption, and more comes down to area control killers abusing a game mechanic to take games hostage. Record, report - that's about all you can do. That said, unless it's a specific perk allowing you to break the game (Boil Over), you don't nerf a perk because of something like this. You fix the underlying issue.
Overcharge is embarrassingly bad, as the skill check is super easy, and it actually makes your regression worse, unless they let it stand for half an hour.
Yes. I'm assuming that. Because I can. And I'm far from a good survivor.
Comparing Erupt to Deadlock is like comparing apples to...honestly, not even oranges. Orangutans? Eruption is supposed to be a risk/reward perk, like PR - the problem is that it's counterplay is a bit difficult to execute in solo queue. I'm not a fan of making sweeping nerfs to stuff based on solo queue, because that makes it completely non-viable against SWF.
If someone is running Overcharge, Eruption and COB, they're missing a trick, because in a 3gen the OC is actually making them weaker.
That said, the problem is 3gens. 99% of the time, 3gens are something survivors do to themselves, and that other % is hostage situation that you should be reporting.
This is like saying 'oh, survivors can use those two lockers on one map to be unhookable, therefore we need to nerf lockers'.
@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301959#Comment_3301959
Eruption has counterplay when you're in SWF. Playing solo? You are screwed.
And?
We can't balance this game around solo queue, and we especially can't nerf perks around solo queue, because then you're basically removing it from play completely. See: Thana.
Solo queue needs help - and they'll be getting some soon. But the balance philosophy moving forwards has to be about SWF versus Killer.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301959#Comment_3301959
So you're saying that by bringing one particular perk, combining that with one or two other synergy perks, and picking a specific area of the map to abuse, that you can completely deny the other team ever being able to complete their primary objective?
Wow, that sounds annoying. Good thing they nerfed both boil over and eruption within a week of those buffs going live.
What's that? Eruption hasn't been nerfed yet and still does that on live? Huh.
But hey, that single week of overtuned boil over sure sucked, amirite?
Edit: autocorrect.
Why hello there Mr. Sarcasm.
You're describing two completely different issues - and you know it.
The problem was that there was zero counterplay to Boil Over. Agitation, Iron Grasp - nope. If they abused the RPD library, the IWOM tower or the Eyrie main building, they couldn't be hooked.
Eruption has counterplay. Get people to call out over voicechat when they are about to go down.
As obnoxious as that 3gen thing is:
- Don't 3gen yourselves.
- If the killer stakes out a 3gen at the start and never leaves - the developers have confirmed that it's bannable, so just record it and report it, as it's taking the game hostage. BO+NM did not count as taking the game hostage, sadly, as you could end the game by camping the slug. It was annoying, but again - different.
Now, does Eruption need a look? Maybe. As others have suggested, make it work like PR, so it goes off once someone is hooked. However, yes - killer players are irritated, because there is a definite difference between how nerfs to survivor perks and nerfs to killer perks are handled. See: Dead Hard versus Thana.
But let's be real here. Before the QQ train picked Eruption up, it was STBFL. Before STBFL, it was Thana. Before that, DMS.
Whatever the killer meta is at any time will be complained about, because people will always attribute those perks to them losing.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301655#Comment_3301655
"less annyoing to deal with" I'd think you say this now, but probably didn't back then. Pretty sure I hated it back then especially when you had to find 4 totems. This new Eruption basically targets all reasons now why they nerfed Ruin back then. Annoying to go against, hard to counter expecially for new players and the insane pickrate. Eruption is probably not at 80% but still noticeably high to call it an unbalanced/unfair advantage
...Insane...pickrate...what?
Dude, it was at 18% last I checked. That's perfectly in-line for what the 'meta' perks are.
Eruption is probably going to get gutted, because that does seem to be the pattern when it comes to killer perks (wish they made more of an effort to keep them viable, like Survivor perks - see Dead Hard versus Thana) but 18% is pretty meh.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
I love running iron maiden on my iridescent demo build. The add on that reveals auras when you travel through portals. Some people figure it out and start jumping in lockers to avoid aura reads. They jump out, scream, easy down. Damned if you do damned if you don't 😁
Hahaha yeah, I love Iron Maiden, but it doesn't take more than a few screams before they catch on. Double Iri Demo is still hilariously fun...I call it 'The Grabber'.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301974#Comment_3301974
True !
I do have my favourite survivor with a cosmetic I like (biker Kate), but I often ran into other Kates, sometimes with the same outfit, and it was a bit bothersome for killers to evaluate who's who on the HUD. So I felt like switching it up a bit. For the past few weeks I've been playing as Haddie, and I'm quite fond of her now. =)
One thing's for sure, I'm not running into too many Haddies out there, so no accidental tunnel !
For me it's that 'spy' suit on Feng or basically anything on Cheryl. Or the metalhead outfit on Jeff (just wish he wasn't as noisy as a metalhead, I'd play him more).
It would take a pretty amazing new survivor to make me switch over...like Tokyo Ghoul or Higurashi amazing.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
Eruption getting a little stronger to make up for the delay of having to get a hook would be pretty good.
Either that or reducing the incapacitation but giving it more regression.
I don't think the incap needs to be touched - otherwise it's just another regression perk.
Making it hook based gives people a more reliable way to counter it, while still punishing overly greedy folks.
@solarjin1 said:
Eruption should incapacitate for 15sec max but beside that it pretty balance. Let the killers have a few strong perks
call of brine is the main offender of the current 3gen kicking meta. You can circle around your 3 gen forever applying regression and when some meaningful work actually get done on the gen COB second effect let the killer know to go right back over there. The strategy is so affected that some killers are picking three to four of the closest gens to guard only. The perk give good information and excellent regression at the same time.
It gives a nice burst initially, but falls off and can be countered by simply tapping.
CoB is the only decent perk that works off kick other than Eruption, which is why they are paired so often, especially after BHVR made Overcharge basically worse than an empty slot in many cases. No idea why they did that.
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@Vampwire said:
So there's two ways I can imagine this combo gets fixed. It relies on at least one of these perks nerfed. Alone they aren't super problematic, but this combo is probably the dumbest perk combo we've ever had.
Call of Brine: Only applies to one gen at a time. This makes it harder to just regress 3 different gens at once. It wouldn't really interfere with most gameplay really. Survivors can still tap the gen and what not. You just have to make a conscious choice on if you want one gen to regress more, or you want to regress this one faster. Basically just makes the perk less brain dead since you have to choose instead of just smacking every gen you see. This also means you either have to sacrifice your Call of Brine on a gen with more progress if you want to get a wide spread Eruption. Basically just means you have to make a decision on what you're trying to set up.
Eruption: Explodes after being hooked. This way it works more like Pain Res, where there's about a second long que of when to let go. You may think this makes it super unreliable but pair it with Pain Res it's actually not to bad. You get a burst of regression and punish greedy survivors. Plus considering the amount of survivors who don't know how to counter Pain Res already I bet the incapacitated will happen more frequently.
Basically this encourages you to go for chases instead of just slap gens all day long. That's basically the entire problem with this meta. You don't actually have to play the game as killer. You just stall gens until survivors give you enough pressure to snowball, rather than building that through playing. COB + Eruption is literally easy mode at this point.
I like Eruption working on hook a lot. It keeps it viable, but gives easier counterplay.
CoB does not need any sort of nerf.
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@Brimp said:
Old mettle of man, old dead hard, exhaustion perks when they were on cooldown and not an exhaustion cooldown.
I forgot old MoM, and will also add release BT.
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@HugTheHag said:
I'm not into Resident Evil and Wesker's face pisses me off (mildly affectionate), so I'm frankly much happier about Haddie ! Her perks are not that great, but I think she looks cool. Dredge I don't play, but it's a well-rounded killer that's strong in the right hands, and I can't see ######### during Nightfall, which is kind of fun.
I'm actually quite happy about 6.1., I hadn't played for long before, and the benefit of having basekit BT outweights by far any perk changes for me as my builds were generally unaffected (except for Ruin on Hag, as I used to run her base perks + survivor detection, but that wouldn't have held up anyway against better teams).
As I said, not a big fan of Project W, as I don't care for the characters, I'm not interested in Wesker's perks, and only survivor perks I was looking forward to were Reassurance (which no one brings as it got hard nerfed) and Better Than New (which was nerfed out of gen speed). Probably won't buy before a sale in the coming year.
Forged in Fog brings really good perks on both sides, so I'm happy with it. I'm not into medieval themes so the killer being used or not is not of importance to me. If anything, I think it's interesting that BHVR brings back difficult killers that take experience to use well. I generally like original killers more than licensed ones, so I'm looking forward to the next original chapter. I hope it's gonna be a cool creature.
Haddie has an...interesting aesthetic, but she's rare for sure.
I think a lot of people have settled into their 'favorite' survivor, with outfits etc. and it'll take either something very iconic or very different to make them switch. Vitty is big muscly shirtless dad, for instance while Haddie is...another female survivor.
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@Sycamore said:
The map has like two infinites, and is covered in really strong pallets. So if you learn the map you're untouchable as Survivor.
DDS?
I've had some close games on there, but it has three very barren edges and is so small that you can easily get into another chase.
Garden is just wall to wall nasty. A hellish main structure, another god vault in the gazebo, a ton of strong pallets and very safe gens.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
I think even old Ruin Undying was nowhere near as bad. Every past OP perk I can think of on either side had some form of counterplay. Original Ruin needed you to hit all skill checks. Old Ruin could be cleansed.
Eruption has no counterplay whatsoever. It triples as a slowdown, regression, and info perk. It's a stronger slowdown perk than dedicated slowdown perks. It's a stronger regression perk than dedicated regression perks. It's a very good info perk on the level of other meta info perks.
Survivors want to do gens. An efficient survivor will spend every second not in chase on a gen. Any gen kicked by Eruption becomes a trap for survivors. Any survivor working on it will reveal their exact location to a killer on a down (which is less predictable than a pick up, like Thrilling). They're also made useless for a whole 25 seconds (which is stronger than Deadlock, which only locks one gen for 30 seconds for 4 times in a match, allowing a survivor to heal, bless totems, or cleanse). On top of this, any generator kicked will lose 10% progress instantly (which is only 5% less than Pain Resonance, which requires finding one of 4 hooks on the map and only affects a single generator).
I think it's very telling that Nightlight had Pain Res as the top killer perk last week but currently has COB and Eruption sitting at the top and still climbing. It's also very telling that the top 5 most used killer builds include COB and Eruption. This perk is absurdly strong. I understand it was necessary to give it a small buff to give it some viability (I'd argue there are other perks more deserving, like Oppression), but Eruption needs to be nerfed into the ground. It is unacceptable for this perk to continue to exist in the game in its current form.
Uh...okay, hold my coffee.
- OoO
- Boil Over
- Dead Hard
- Aura reading perks while they were bugged
@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301644#Comment_3301644
Boil Over isn’t on the same lines of effectiveness as Eruption.
Yup.
It was 150x worse.
On some maps, you'd be literally unhookable. And people would run No Mither, allowing them to essentially take the game hostage, or force the killer to waste ages slug camping.
Eruption is annoying, but it has counterplay.
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301492#Comment_3301492
I don't think it's the right play. Low mobility killers you can't really afford to break off a chase in the early/mid game. And if it's a really dumb central building like Dead Dawg you can be sure most survivors are gonna hold W straight to the god windows every single time anyways.
You are going to lose gens left and right trying to find a new survivor. Then if you are M1 you gotta hold W all the way up to them, hit them twice, and kick a few safe pallets along the way which is just too much time lost if all 4 survivors are alive and doing gens. You really need corrupt active during that time to hold your hand through the initial phase of the game without losing 3 gens right off the bat which is why the first chase is so critical and requires the killer to commit.
Losing because the first guy you chased held W to the nearest god window after being injured and now is looping it without recourse? Forget it. That's another reason for bamboozle.
DDS isn't too bad.
This was a literal infinite.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301906#Comment_3301906
That's one subject I never like to talk about even though I could spam my bias for Sadako and Leatherface 24/7. The reason I use reviews for my reply to reflect the majority's perception.
It's so subjective that you're not going to end up changing someone's mind. It's that type of discussion that never ends up lol
---
"Me: Nurse is the worst chapter ever
You: Nah, Nurse is the best chapter ever released
Me: Nah, you're wrong and I'm right (type of reply for the next 10 hours"
(this happens)
Shrug.
I'm not telling anyone how to think, just how I think.
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@TigerSnake said:
Roots of Dread was not a very good chapter. Garbage map, lame and boring killer, dull survivor, and uninteresting, crappy perks from both sides.
Dredge has probably been the best killer added in years.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301794#Comment_3301794
Most people only hate on Haddie because she’s not conventionally attractive. It’s genuinely sad.
/eyeroll.
It couldn't be that she's been hyped up in the lore for ages, but has a really bland backstory?
It couldn't be that her perks are kind of terrible?
@BillsHere101 said:
2022 what a fantastic year it was right? Well the roots of dread (apart from haddie) and project W chapters were astonishing but the rest of the updates or chapters were straight up dumpster fire. What is your take on dbd 2022?
Most of the updates have been really solid.
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@Sycamore said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FF46UHJLHK5B/knight-performs.png
A match I had as Knight. Didn't have to camp. Didn't have to tunnel. The survivors only completed two gens, and they were not even bad survivors. I just applied an insurmountable amount of pressure to gens, and survivors. The chases ended quickly because of Knights anti-loop capabilities, and kept forcing survivors to run into the same gens they were trying to complete or switch to. I didn't even take Nurses Calling this time. Been testing a combo with BBQ, Pain Res, and Shrine. When I hook a survivor on a Scourge Hook, the gen with the most progress explodes, losing progress, and making the survivor scream, because the scream animation makes the survivor stand up I see their Aura even through the Gens aura with BBQ - giving me a bit more value from BBQ, and then Monstrous Shrine forces survivors off gens faster to go make the save instead of waiting for the gen to finish before running to make the save.
The survivors could only complete 2 gens, and that was at the cost of a second hook state for whoever was on hook at the time. I am fairly certain all 4 survivors felt like if I wasn't on top of them - a guard was, and they could not spread out to pressure multiple gens at a time with so many distractions and chases constantly being brought to them.
This Killer is not weak. You just have to learn how to play him, and be good with Killer.
Shrug.
As I keep saying, 'this killer isn't good' =/= 'this killer makes it impossible to win'.
I'm saying that the Knight is crap. His kit is crap and he feels like crap to play. Much like Trapper and a few others. He so often plays like a standard M1 killer and using his power is the wrong choice.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301558#Comment_3301558
I never see her. I've played against her about two or three times in as many months. I seem to get endless streams of Huntresses and Weskers
You never see nurse? Huh. Wish I could say the same.
Her, Huntress, Wesker and Blight make up the vast majority of my games at present. Occasionally the odd Nemesis, Myers, Bubba or Slinger.
Barely ever see Artist, Hag or Cenobite.
Do see a weird amount of Clown at present.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301547#Comment_3301547
- What about this game would have been different, had you, say, been playing, say, Myers? I see maybe 2 moments when a teleport yielded anything useful.
Sure
- I like your build idea a lot.
you asked for a game, didn't you.
To not end up ignorant, I can show you one more game
Hmm, not sure why you're being hostile here - maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying? Or maybe I'm reading it wrong. Anyhoo...
Looking at these ones:
- Myers game was very clearly a group of survivors far below your skill level, as you remarked at the end. What I meant was that, in the first Sadako game, you didn't win because of your kit, you won because you outplayed them and the game wouldn't have looked much different for the most part on any other 'weaker' killer.
- Still - yay, VM+DR is one of the most enjoyable builds in the game.
- Second Sadako game was interesting.
- Wretched Shop, I think? Again, the map was really gentle here. Do you have any matches against strong SWFs on a more difficult map? Preferably Eyrie, Garden or Cowshed, as these are the maps where M1 killers struggle? That's what I'd be curious to see.
- I prefer the original build, to be honest - not a fan of Deadlock with a regression perk as there's a bit of an anti-synergy there. But you seem to know what you're doing.
- I run PR+DMS on her too for a similar reason. Going to try out PR+DMS+BBQ+LP on Sadako in a bit, as I like the idea of using it to teleport after a hook. May try Floods of Rage instead of BBQ too.
- That Leon cost them the game trying to be BM and going down when he shouldn't have. That one hook completely changed the flow of the game. Well played though.
- My point isn't that people can't succeed on Sadako. My point is that Sadako's kit sucks, and someone that wins on her could probably win just as easily/even easier on almost any other killer (Trapper is still worse).
Thanks for the fun games though, I'll try to catch one of your streams when I have the time.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293796#Comment_3293796
Hardly anyone plays as her because they get bored of everyone DCing as soon as they realise it's her?
Plenty of people play as her, and the stats provided exclude DC games.
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@Firellius said:
I want to use it, but losing 33% of progress made on top of losing ALL of it if you lose a health state in any way just makes it too much of a risk.
Wish they'd lower it to 15 stacks instead of 20 and then reduced the token loss from getting hit to 3, or even 0.
It's unbelievably strong to the point it looks like hacking - but you need a team to get it to work properly as you need people to run interference.
With no risk, this perk would probably be the strongest survivor perk since post rework pre-nerf Boil Over.
@DragonMasterDarren said:
Potential Energy is one of the most fun perks to have come to DBD recently, and here's why
Pressing F after being on a gen for 8 seconds will allow you to start storing energy, which is measured in tokens up to a max of 20, one token is earned for every 1.5% of gen progress made, pressing F with any number of tokens will let you use all of them to add 1% of progress to a gen for every token used, you lose a few tokens if you miss a skillcheck while charging, and you lose all of them if you lose a health state
Yes, mathematically you lose progress, however, i don't really think this is a problem, being able to instantly snap 20% progress on any generator is underrated, you can finish a gen after storing max charges while the killer is busy with someone else, and then find another gen and instantly do 1/5th of the total progress, or use PE to break a 3-gen by storing charges on a gen with a low amount of progress and then blow all of the tokens on a gen with higher progress
And, of course, and my personal favourite use of the perk, instantly popping gens in Killers faces when they think it's not close to being finished
I cannot begin to describe the feeling of euphoria i get when PEing a gen right as the killer reaches me, it is a special kind of satisfaction knowing that the killer now probably thinks you're cheating and will absolutely be gunning for you for the rest of the game, nothing beats watching a killer that has been defending a 3-gen religiously completely lose any hope of winning as you pop 20% on a nearly completed gen, winning your team the game. This perk is criminally underused and i really hope more people begin using it
Well, there's that and i want more people to use it so i can look at the cool graphic more often
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MWWNB4JK4ATN/20221222140850-1.jpg
Please, this graphic is so cool, USE THIS PERK
I predict that once more groups become savvy to how ludicrous PE can be, it's going to take over the meta.
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@socalfusions said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301269#Comment_3301269
Never seen someone come close to using the house as an infinite in solo que but even I wasn't aware it was that strong so that's probably why, I'll be sure to try and learn the loops as usually it seemed like a dead end after you threw the god pallet outside on the lower porch.
I don't think I've ever seen 3 windows open on the ground floor before - although maybe this was the first time I'd seen a team abuse it like this.
@TheMruczek said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301256#Comment_3301256
I believe also Father Campbell's Chapel can spawn one god window...Haddonfield has basicly an infinite on one of it's houses thanks to 2 strong windows...DbD's map design is very fair.
Yeah I've seen this, but it's one window. This was 3, two of which are 'god vaults'. Yes, there's a Latin pun I'm not going to make.
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Thanks! This was actually a really interesting game.
A few things though. Let's dig in and respond to your - well, your response.
*Dusts off old Starcraft 2 Commentator hat*...
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297620#Comment_3297620
How come I end up with almost 4ks each game using random builds? You've set up your mind I believe.
- This was one game. I'll have to catch your stream sometime after the holidays to get a better sample size.
- This specific game felt less like Sadako being amazing and more 'if you're good, survivors are running around like headless chickens and your mindgames work, you can do well on any killer'.
- What about this game would have been different, had you, say, been playing, say, Myers? I see maybe 2 moments when a teleport yielded anything useful.
- That crucial fast first down was a combination of a good mindgame from you and that Nea making a silly mistake because she was trying to be fancy.
- Ditto that second Nea with some really dumb plays and then a pointless Dead Hard.
- Third down against that Dwight - he ran right into you while looking behind him. Again - great work on the mindgame, but you weren't even invisible there.
- 4th down, Dwelf. He seems to be completely outclassed here.
- 5th down, they have already lost the game at 4 gens. A ridiculously bad rescue leading to an exchange, what on earth were they thinking?
- 6th down. You mess up and nearly let the Nea escape, chasing shadows. However, this entire section of the map is now basically a wasteland and she has to go miles to find a single pallet. I'm no expert on seeds, but had this been Garden of Joy or Eyrie, you'd have been SOOL here. Nea drops another pallet and rather than playing safe, she stands around. Confusing.
Not going too far into the rest of the game, as you've already won here - they've crumbled and most of their resources are depleted. Rather than trying to get into main building or something, they run out into nowhere and go down.
Postgame:
- One solid Nea, one okay Nea. One newer Dwight and one intermediate Dwight, probably in a SWF judging how the Dwelf's silly altruism basically cost them the game. Hardly the 'max level team' it says on the cover.
- One survivor didn't even have max level perks, and the loadout was clearly a mixture of 'fun' builds and serious builds.
- Double CoH = redundancy. This was not a 'team', this was random.
- Aside from the P100 Nea, they were completely and utterly outclassed here. Not going to make any accusations about MMR tanking, but you'd have smashed them on basically any killer, and much faster on most.
- Your Sadako kit barely helped you here, aside from the aura addon and maybe two moments where a teleport got you a faster chase.
- I like your build idea a lot.
- I'd have been curious to see how this match plays out on Cowshed, or Garden.
- This game demonstrates the big issue of DbD - a lot of games are decided before the match starts where a bunch of randoms get thrown into the meat grinder.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
I know a lot of people will not like this suggestion but:
Break off the chase
You know where the gens are, break off the chase, go either for someone else or force the survivors that been looping you to leave the loop.
Sure.
But thing is - against a team that know what they are doing, it's not like they can't make it there from nearly anywhere on the map.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301211#Comment_3301211
Nerfing Dead Hard was the only good thing about that patch, even though it didn't go far enough as it is still the strongest exhaustion perk. Almost all of the other perk changes were far overtuned. I thought the game would come out more balanced after 6.1.0, but I don't think it did.
Destroying Pop & Ruin (perks that can earned for free) and promoting Overcharge & Eruption (perks paywalled behind licensed characters) to the top of the killer meta still screams money grab to me to this day.
Overcharge is from Doctor, AFAIK. And Doctor isn't paywalled.
Unless you mean Eruption? In which case...sure? But it's balance - it all comes around again.
Still curious as to which ones were the positives - and by exclusion, the negatives? Because I can't see a single negative on that list.
Some stuff was just massive QOL, like the wiggle changes. Dredge is a fantastic killer, and Legion/Ghostface reworks were pretty decent. Anon mode helps streamers a ton.
Which ones are the problem?
@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301254#Comment_3301254
Ahem.
In the OP I asked for reasons to be optimistic. I want to be optimistic. I said in the OP I didn't want to talk about what's wrong with DbD, you had fair warning.
You rolled up in this thread, never answered the actual OP, are trying to derail the thread and then are telling me what "should not be allowed here."
Get out.
To be fair, a few people have linked unambiguously good changes. Others made lists. You responded by going 'nah, those were all terrible' without elaborating.
It definitely looks like you're looking for reasons to hate the game, not like it.
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@Hensen2100 said:
You play M1 killers without bamboozle? Bless your soul. They STILL have not removed some of the oldest god-windows so I refuse to take it off. Grim Pantry comes to mind, the most braindead window in DBD. Or maybe that is Mother's Dwelling? Hmmm. I can't decide, there are so many.
Maybe there are more in the new maps but I would never know, I just vault the window after them and that is that
It's one of the few windows in the game that still gives me the fizzies, and I've never seen this before.
It reminds me of that video where someone ran Otz on Nemesis for about 5 minutes on the Haddonfield HOP pseudo and the only way he caught her was that she got bored.
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@Moxie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301070#Comment_3301070
Yes, but if you are solo, you have no way of knowing the exact moment someone will go down. It's not like Pain Resonance, sadly.
Sadly, this game cannot be balanced around solo players. It has to be balanced around SWF, because otherwise killers are completely hosed against these groups. Watching the Community Cups was...terrifying, in regards to how strong survivors still are - especially with Fogwise basically working as prenerf OoO in SWF without the downside.
Solos need some more tools to communicate, but it will, unfortunately, always be the sub-optimal way to play the 'team' role. Because it requires coordination.
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@Grindixer said:
A little rant of my experience after getting back into killer,
Every time I bring a Hex whether it be Devour, Ruin, Blood Favor, Retribution, or even Huntress Lullaby its gone <1 minute into the match. I've tried to mediate this with Undying but with little luck. Sometimes the aura reading gives me more benefit. I think the last time I got true value I would consider the perk worth running was a hidden Huntress Lullaby on RPD.
I think survivors have just gotten to a point in skill where totem spots aren't hard to predict, and anti-totem perks (most namely boons) are so in play it feels like everything is against Hexes.
I think the only real counter is a Plaything + Pentimento build to capitalize on this. Any tips to make them worth running or are they pretty much a lost cause?
Sadly, no. They are just too volatile.
I do run Plaything+Penti on Wesker and Devour on Hag and Demo, but those are the exception.
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@betelgeuseyes said:
Learn how to:
1. Sabotage hooks!
2. Hook save teammates on their first phase when you're at full health
3. Take protection hits at full health or endurance
4. Risk a first or second hook if someone else is about to be on their 2nd or last hook
5. Not escape a trial unless the killer forces you out when teammate(s) haven't reached the gate
6. Maybe try not to open the gate fully until teammates are safe?
7. Commit to unhooking when at full health sometimes
Please, for mine and others like mines situation heed these 7 commandments. Don't be afraid if you fail. It is, after all, just a videogame...
Ooh...okay.
- Beware, a smart killer will instantly drop the carried survivor and chase you. Only sabo hooks when it'll force an escape drop, otherwise you can lose the game there and then.
- Yes. But also beware trying to instasave - you're asking to be grabbed. Don't follow the killer like a puppy, we can hear you.
- Sure...within reason. Beware doing this if nobody has a medkit or CoH.
- Yes.
- Yes...but this is one you'll need to get a feel for.
- See above.
- Unfortunately, you'll need to learn the grab dance. Dammit I wish they'd remove hook grabs.
I'd say.
- If you're solo, make sure you run at least one perk to let you know what's happening to teammates. I like Empathy, some people like Bond. If someone is being chased, do gens. If nobody is being chased, beware.
- Don't try to get fancy. Learn the fundamentals first. I get far too many easy wins against even somewhat experienced folks because they wanted to show off with a fancy tech or flashlight save.
- Run at least one Exhaustion perk. Dead Hard is good, but starting out, Sprint Burst and Lithe are a bit easier initially.
- Windows of Opportunity, if you can get it, is incredible when you're starting out and honestly pretty damn excellent all round.
- Try to split up on gens, unless someone has Prove Thyself. This makes it easier to work while someone is being chased.
- Play killer a bit! You'll get a feel for some important things, especially FOV and instinctive initial patrol paths.
- The main structure on most maps has a good amount of safety. If in doubt, head there.
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@Parallax said:
I haven't played dbd in like a year and don't know any of the new perks which makes my complete knowledge of every perk incomplete.
Could I get an update on the new more common perks and metas and what they do and how they work and whatnot (for both killer and survivor)? I think the Artist's release was around when I stopped playing.
Please:)))
On killer, the meta right now is very regression heavy, with a bit of info.
You can expect to see:
- Lethal Pursuer+an aura reading perk. If the killer seems to find a super early chase, it's probably LP, which means BBQ on a ranged killer and probably Nowhere to Hide on anyone else. Sometimes Darkness Revealed or Floods of Rage, very rarely I'm All Ears.
- Eruption+Call of Brine. If a killer is kicking every single gen regardless of progression, anticipate Eruption and try to release the gen before someone goes down.
- Surge, especially on instadown killers. Try to jump into a locker before you die to negate it.
- Save The Best For Last (not as common as it was for a bit). If the killer is hitting insanely fast, the obsession needs to start being aggressive.
- Plaything+Pentimento (rare) - If you see Plaything, make sure to remember where it was so you can cleanse the penti.
On survivor, it's a lot more varied. Dead Hard is still common, but you'll also see Sprint Boost and the odd Lithe.
Perks to be scared of:
- Potential Energy. I predict this is going to get nerfed eventually, once people see what this can do in an SWF. Can absolutely demolish a gen when you need it most.
- Prove Thyself. Ahahaha gens go zoom.
- Circle of Healing. Blue totem, allows everyone to self care and ultra-accelerates group healing. Very nasty, you'll want to cleanse this whenever you can by kicking the totem. Good luck against a good team on a map like IWOM though.
- Fogwise. Expect survivor teams to know where you are at all times if this is in play (and it's often in play now). It's about as strong as OoO used to be. Not sure if it's still like this, but for a while you could even see stealth killers.
- Hyperfocus. If the survivors are good enough, this explodes gens.
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@HungrySnek said:
Something really has to change. Right now the game is painfully unfun and it get's worse with every Update/Chapter.
On the survivor side the meta is rush gens while on the killer side it's use nurse or run the same 3 gen kick perks the whole round. And sorry but what is fun about this? You ether stare at a progression bar filling up or you watch the gen kick Animation for the 20th time this round. The one fun thing about dbd is the chase and in both scenarios where ether the gens get finished in 5 minutes or not at all there is almost no chase at all.
We really need a new Objective that is at least a bit bit more fun because trying to "fix" the gen progress didn't work since years
Uh...hate to break it to you but:
- Nurse has been the top dog since...honestly I can remember.
- 'Slam gens and don't die' is the meta, because that's how the game works.
- 'Stop survivors from doing gens' is the killer meta, because that's how the game works.
- Whenever a lethality perk becomes strong enough to be viable, it is endlessly QQ'd about - see STBFL before Eruption became the new favorite. The only non info perks that can be decent are, sadly, regression based.
- The meta has never been more varied in terms of perks.
@The_Krapper said:
The meta is just stale is what the issue is, it's something that at high MMR is unfun for both sides really at the moment, I play like four survivor matches and I'm bored then I go play killer for about four matches and I'm bored then too, I think I've just got too many hours and I'm getting burnt out on this game neither side is really hard if I'm being honest and it's rinse and repeat gameplay, the devs need to find other things to spice the game up like new game modes with different objectives that still keep the horror vibe while opening up a world of possibilities to keep people entertained and draw new players in
How many hours?
I know, I've finally broken 1000, and I'm still finding new stuff to enjoy. And a game that, in total, over the years might have cost me about 1.5 AAA games and I get 1000 hours out of is already pretty damned good.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Basic attacks. More specifically, what is/isn't considered a basic attack?
Okay, Nurse's blinks are basic while Pig's dash was changed from Basic to Special. Alright, Nurse can grab and Pig can't and a 0.3-speed burst vs a 1.8-sec speed burst, so maybe I can see an argument about why they did that.
But, Oni tapping M2 in his power isn't a basic attack. I don't mean the lunge, I mean merely tapping m1 which does both a grab and only 1 health state of damage. Okay, maybe that's too complicated to code, but then we have Slinger's reel into M1 counting as Basic when it literally inflicts Deep Wound, just like Legion's Basic-turned-Special attack?
W-What are the rules, man? What are the rules?!
Honestly, Nurse is the outlier here.
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@ByeByeQ said:
#1 First World Problem: Bloodwebs taking so damn loooooooooong.
Yeah...it can be dreadful when I cap and then take about 20 minutes to spend the bloody things. Wish there was a way to disable the animations or just autobuy.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301170#Comment_3301170
I only see about maybe 4 of those as net-positive changes. Most of them are lateral, expected or net-negative changes, #10 being the worst by far. Thinking about the changes made in 2022 make me pessimistic about DbD's future.
None of you have provided me any reason to be optimistic.
Thankfully I do still have 1 reason.
I do still occasionally have fun playing DbD.
I wish I had more reason to be optimistic, but I guess it is enough.
What was wrong with the perk pass? I don't think I've ever seen this many perks be widely used on either killer or survivor.
Hell, Dead Hard saw 50-80% pick rates for years. That was a positive change at the very least.
The rest of those are all pretty positive. Especially the killer reworks. Why would these be a downgrade?
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https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/358985/add-penalties-for-leaving-players-to-die
How?
Like...how do you even detect that?
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@Jinxed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301129#Comment_3301129
I totally agree with you on WGLF and BBQ, I miss getting my stacks so much </3
BBQ in particular really did encourage a healthy killer playstyle - although having that last survivor basically be invisible through the whole match could get annoying.
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@Rulebreaker said:
Not sure how many of these count:
- Pallet spawning: Going to pallet city then deadzone a few meters away is funny but just messes with our head
- Blight sliding: We get blight for the most part, we get Ormond is snow and ice, but how the hell do we slide off the freaking hill cliff side? Aka sliding of a direct wall.
- Myers Evil Incarnate: We sigh each time someone tells a story of how survivors dove in lockers to deny this achievement. Flashbacks to horrible days.
- That ####### pallet atop Ormonds: ....we really just hate this pallet as survivor or killer...
- No one knowing "Hag Protocol": We just love to see our teammates running to unhook us when everyone knows its a hag. Double so if they watched traps (literally watch too) being put down near by.
I still play way too much Hag, and I never trap hooks on purpose. It's hilarious watching people have no idea how to respond to a Hag that poops traps at every high thoroughfare point on the map but not hooks.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
They made the problem and sold the solution with OTR.
I mean, hey, they DID shake up the meta-- now you don't use DS, because they just gave you something that works better and works twice.
The powered gates stipulation was all they needed. 5 seconds and some killers might actually notice when they get hit by it.
DS still sees regular usage at the highest levels of play though. Saw it a goodly amount during the CC.
I do think the nerf was excessive, but the perk is far from bad.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298714#Comment_3298714
Would it make much of a difference?
Tunnelling and camping are baseline problems with the game. If they keep insisting on using perks to patch those holes, those perks will continue to be mandatory picks.
The only thing that changed is the colour of the jacket everyone's forced to wear.
Again, watching the CC - the problem is that, at a certain MMR, unless you're playing a crazy stacked Nurse, these are essential tactics. Getting one person out ASAP is basically the only way to win against a strong SWF.
The issue is that these are brutal to play against as someone who isn't that good.
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@Jinxed said:
I really like Inner Healing, but I feel bad bringing it now that boons are a thing. There's just something so satisfying about hopping in a locker and poof, healed.
I miss IH, but sadly the game has moved on past it. It's like if Demogorgon was a perk.
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@TigerSnake said:
I know a lot of people hate Legion for dragging out the game, but is it just me, or is this a myth? Ever since Thana got nerfed to complete uselessness, Legion games really don’t feel that long at all, at least not any longer than any usual killer can drag it out for. So why is it people complain about this killer and still think they slow down the game? Cause I just don’t see it in a universe without Thana.
He does force survivors to spend a lot of time healing, but Legion are perfectly fine. I wish I could play them more, but - like Hag, Pig and Cenobite, it's basically a guarantee that someone will DC or suicide.
Survivor players do not like side objectives.
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@ByeByeQ said:
I can't find one.
I don't want to talk about what's wrong with DbD in this thread. (I could go on and on about that.)
Are you optimistic about the future of DbD?
Why? What gives you that optimism?
Uh...yeah?
Just this year, we've had a ton of great stuff added, the meta is more varied than it's ever been perk wise, some really fun map reworks, frigging anonymous mode (what a boon this was), Legion rework, Ghosty rework...
I've been playing this game since 2019 (I think?), and basically - while there are a few things I miss (especially visually), the game has never been better.
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Some interesting questions, but...AFK killers are a cheat? What?
I mean, I don't do it as a habit, but if it's the last two survivors playing hide and seek on Eyrie because they 3-genned themselves and I'm on Pig, it's not like I can just DC.
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@drsoontm said:
It appears the MMR is sometimes very lenient, player-strenght wise, to make a lobby.
What would you think of an option that tells the game that under no circumstances you want to be matched (as survivor or with a specific killer) against opponents that are (much?) weaker than you?
Going against a killer or a team way stronger than you may be frustrating, but going against weaker opponents doesn't feel very good either (especially weaker survivors, as far as I'm concerned).
I'd rather have longer queues, or a message telling me that at this time, the matching will be slow because I'm "alone".
What do you think?
The question may be extended to only being grouped with survivors who are about your strength, but I feel it's a different issue.
It's an interesting idea.
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@Zboard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301108#Comment_3301108
1.- Few hours a day almost every day
2.- 1 min queue
3.- full or semi full
3 means you're probably in a lobby that someone dodged, which breaks the MMR system as it basically grabs whoever is available.
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@Tantamountain said:
Killers being able to hit you really far through a window or over a pallet
Seriously, the range is insane
Don't like CoH? Stamp it out. It makes a sound, so find it.
Don't like Dead Hard? Bait it or just spend 5 more seconds in a chase, that's seriously all the time it buys you. If you're not following up after a DH and getting a down anyway, then it's a skill issue.
Killers shouldn't be complaining about anything the game has never been easier for you.
It's clear the developers absolutely hate survivors.
Not sure why though considering they make up 4/5ths of every game
No wonder you've lost nearly 50% of active players in the last few months
- That's not insane range. That's jank-butt latency. From the killer's end, just as often, a lunge that was a clear hit will whiff. Or Ghostface will get revealed by a passing breeze because the game thinks a survivor can still see you.
- Depends where that CoH is. Some maps have spots where, even if you know where it is, it's a huge time commitment to snuff, and covers most of the map. IWOM, GoJ and Eyrie are probably my best examples.
- DH can buy you far more than 5 seconds in a chase. Let's say the pseudo-infinite on GoJ spawns, I can either try to bait it out or swing and activate it, and this allows a survivor to reach the main structure, where they are now essentially uncatchable. Or it helps them get to shack. Or a god pallet.
- Watched any of the community cup games? Unless you're a top tier Nurse or something, survivors are strong.
- Develops hate survivors...hahaha what? Dude, survivors have been brokenly, annoyingly strong since the game's inception. Just because survivors are now only moderately strong does not mean the sky is falling.
- Numbers are actually pretty damn healthy. Once again, sky not falling.
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@Seraphor said:
I also find that, especially on Killer, evening and weekends are particularly bad when the Killer has the incentive bonus.
I can only assume that at those times there is a massive influx of survivors, particularly SWF, and as such, Killer games become almost hopeless unless you can hold your own at that high level.
Play off-peak and you face more reasonable survivors, and the odd potato who sacrifices themselves at your feet.
I'd honestly play against the sweatiest SWF in the world than have ANOTHER sodding game where someone goes AFK in a snowman, goes AFK in a locker, stealths around the map to be BM while avoiding crows, suicides or DCs.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300963#Comment_3300963
There is nothing to "punish", it’s a game.
De-incentivize then, if you want to get pedantic.
It's something that needs to be handled mechanically. That said:
@DBDVulture said:
Big picture question : Why do I need to tunnel to win and how do we prevent it?
The answer is : survivors need to be less efficient at finishing generators & killers need to be less efficient at killing survivors. Mathematically there is nothing wrong with the survivors having two gens done if one survivor has lost two health states. That is a bare minimum that is fair for the killer. But this is the speed at which the survivors want to finish their objective even though it only reinforces my need as killer to tunnel.
Tunneling is 100% cause and effect. If survivors tunnel generators it forces the killer to tunnel one of them out of the game to have a chance to win. If killers play enough strong SWF teams they become conditioned to tunnel every game because it is the most viable strategy. Survivors being hit with this tunnel meta respond with "more gen rush" that reinforces the need to tunnel even more.
There is even a very simple idea to fix the problem that plagues games past "middle" MMR that will make the game way more fun for good players. I won't be typing it here today however.
I'm at a point in the game where most of the survivors in my lobby are 2,500 hour to 10,000 hours played. Most of the time I get either : 2x 2 man swf, 3x swf or 4x swf. If you look like a 3/4 man swf and have lots of items I pick a different lobby. That's just too much of an advantage to overcome unless I feel "in the mood".
When I play a game as killer one of two things happen.
A) I tunnel one player out of the game quickly and the survivors struggle.
B) I am unable to tunnel for some reason and then I struggle to play vs 4 people.
Generally speaking my repeating kill pattern is something like : 4k , 2k, 4k, 0k.
The games at either end of this extreme are not fun for anyone. On the left side I tunnel one player out very quickly (maybe one gen is done and I stil have a very strong 3 gen). On the right side I might only have 2 hooks so the survivors didn't even have the possibility to pip.
The 2k game is still extremely frustrating for everyone because I'm still camping slugging and tunneling. It just so happens that the outcome is close. Reasons for that include : the survivors were in a 3 man that looked like a 2 man swf because their bro logged in on xbox instead of pc, the survivors had a boon, the survivors had reassurance, the game was held on an extremely stupid/unfair map like forsaken boneyard, what I thought were 3 brown medkits were in fact purple medkits or insta heals, the surv team had a clutch deliverance/unbreakable.
The fun game is the 4k before the 0k. And even though I killed all four players (or one got out via hatch) the match was nearly completed usually several times by the remaining three survivors. To be clear here: this game isn't fun because I won. The game is fun because it's close. There were good chases, good gen pressure but in the end I had an edge because all the super annoying things from the 2k game weren't there. I will mention breifly that I do not play Nurse or Blight anymore (and return to this later).
Inside the A and B options there are also some predictable flow chart patterns.
Let's consider the A path first.
1) If I hook a survivor and three gens pop the only way I am going to come back is if I hook the downed survivor next to a 3 gen and literally camp them to death (or stage two and immediately tunnel them down). If that happens the game just ended in my favor - but nobody knows it yet.
2) If the tunneling process is long due to a perk/good teamplay then I might be left with 3 gens that are hard to defend. I will have to down one player (slug them) and injure at least one of the other two players and then I can potentially keep the last player off the gens. If the survivors do not have a boon active then I can still possibly win this - but just barely.
3) If three people are alive and I have what my friend calls a "Y gen" (inverted 3 gen) then the gens are impossible to defend and I just need to down one person whenever I can and accept the 2k. The only way to come back from this is if any of the survivors become timid (want to escape and stop playing), or as killer I have strong 4v1 potential : Pinhead/Nemesis/ maybe pig on the right day.
The B path ends with three or four players escaping, Tbagging at the gate and name calling.
Question : If I win 3/4 game via tunneling then why should I do anything but tunnel?
Followup Question : Since I only seem to win something like 33% of games where I don't tunnel then why should I not tunnel?
Note:
I don't play Blight or Nurse because I believe the game should be in a state where every killer is viable and the difference between the best and worst killer is something like 15% "chase power". To quantify that you can look at doctor and sometimes with perfect play a doctor needs 5 or 6 shocks to get a m1 hit. With nurse you just blink twice and if your range was correct then you cannot miss.
The difference between those two killers in terms of lethality in a chase is close to 55% at my estimation in terms of effectiveness. That number is my opinion and completely arbitrary but you get the point. If we had a machine perfect killer that had wallacks and 0 ping you could see even with perfection the doctor would look terrible by comparison.
The only time I would have a chance at winning the 0k game is if I played Nurse or Blight every game. And in all the other scenarios I would not need to tunnel to win. But if I did tunnel with Blight/Nurse the game would be a complete joke (as can be seen by people who wanted to get 100-200-500 nurse game wins in a row).
Watching the Community Cup has been an interesting experience because wow, do killers struggle, even when tactically camping, slugging and tunneling - especially when they don't have the option of playing a top tier monster.
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@Deathstroke said:
So whenever I play killer I get sweatiest swf:s rushing gens as fast as possible and playing with insane coordination. And to have chance I have to bring 4 slow downs and proxy camp/tunnel. Feels like almost every game is like that right now.
But when I play survivor my teammates go down quickly and gens get barely done. If I manage personally loop killer extended times well I either get facecamped and my whole teams dies trying to get save or they just throw it away anyway going down so fast. It does not help killers tunnel/camp at 5 gens. While I do those tactics when 2-3 gens are already done.
So whatever side I play feels like im having disadvantage. At least I have some good games but where are these survivors who go down in seconds when I play killer? Where are those gen rushers and loopers when I play survivor?
I'm not going to make the obligatory 'common denominator' gag here but I do think that this often comes down to basic psychology. Some folks always overestimate the skill of their opponents, while underestimating those of their allies.
This is a weird game sometimes, and often really snowbally.
It could also be that your killer MMR is pretty high, and your survivor MMR is pretty low. What sort of killers are you facing?
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@jamally093 said:
No matter how long I take a break I'm still put at way to high of skilled players when clearly I'm not supposed to be. No matter what OLD MATCHMAKING was better Skill based is not good or even decent during the PTB it was actually fair and that PTB was public meaning something happened that screwed it up when it went live what was it who knows will they actually make matchmaking good again probably not.
Huh?
Old matchmaking had nothing to do with skill half the time. Remember, once a month everyone's 'MMR' basically got reset. And I was in purple ranks in a few weeks, having just started.
New MMR isn't perfect, but it's miles better.
@Ripley said:
They never fixed age old problem of "any match is better than no match" ideology, wait times and skipped lobbies. I'm going to take another extended break after Xmas. Coming back for the event was fun but reminded me a lot of the MM problems still exist which sucks the fun out of the game.
Wait times have actually been way better since the last patch, at least on my end. Haven't started on killer yet (I iri 1 first, then do survivor) but it seems faster. Probably incentives coming back.
Lobby dodges...yeah. But dodge those yourself.