Hensen2100
Hensen2100
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@Pulsar said:
PTB by PTB, my opinion of BHVR's balancing falls.
Between the dead-on-arrival perks, the unfun Killers and the absolutely bizarre changes; I am fairly close to giving up hope.
Yeah I just read the patch notes and it's probably one of the worst I have ever seen? They might as well just change the twins gameplay to a cutscene there will be so little a survivor can do against a victor down. Imma stay far away from survivor after this patch.
The game has gone from super meme balance, to somewhat serious, now slowly back to super meme balance. Everything comes full circle
And funny thing is, after what happened with things like boil over Boil Over I can almost guarantee it goes live
Entire DBD community tells them wow, new boil over sounds super busted. People will surely abuse the fk outta this on maps like RPD where it will literally be impossible to hook people
goes live anyways
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Probably my favorite perk in the game right now. Sneaking up on people who are hiding from the gens terror radius is actually chefs kiss
I used to think it was a straight upgrade to Trail but ToT usually lasts much longer once a survivor is dead and can actually be defended pretty decently now that gen tapping is gone
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I would say reduce the radius or add the CD back. I think it's funny that on maps like the game I can already know my exact route I am going to take on an entirely different floor before I have even seen that section of the map.
BHVR added new tiles because "the entity demands a more chaotic experience" but then this autopilot perk exists. Even as a killer you can usually tell who is using it as they perfectly path pallet to pallet to window to pallet to window etc etc
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@Slurpin said:
Gonna say it outright: Any killer player that thinks Windows is the reason they are losing are coping hard. The players that crutch on this perk are pretty easy to smack with most killer powers.
That's a really hot take. Even as a veteran player it is an incredibly strong perk, because you basically get to plan out your entire chase in advance and won't make any mistakes.
A great example is preschool, you know two pallets will always spawn in the school but you don't know which positions they will be at. So going into the school for the first time while being chased, going left or right is the difference between a down and extending the chase by potentially minutes. With windows, you pick the right direction every time
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Really depends on the killer you are playing, and what perks you take instead of regression. Stronger, higher mobility killers like Billy can easily get away without using gen slowdown. Someone like Freddy, Wraith, etc etc probably won't be able to pull it off.
On weaker killers I can get usually win with just corrupt intervention and 3 other non-regression perks. Sometimes it doesn't help much but then other times it basically carries your entire early game
Endgame perks are also incredibly viable if you are going for 12 hooks. Since a lot of the time you will be scraping into endgame with maybe 1 person dead another on death hook, NWO + NOED / terminus can secure victory without technically being "gen regression"
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655279#Comment_3655279
Or Trapper and Bubba. I haven’t played in a while but from my understanding, Bubba can proxy camp and just mow everyone down when they’re coming up.
Yes, Bubba is a 1 shot killer
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Basement isn't really that scary anymore, between the anti-camp and basekit BT. Even if you get multiple people down there, you still have to back off enough to let someone just run down and do the saves in most cases
It's actually one of the dumbest things in the game that if you did somehow manage to get all 4 survivors hooked at once, you need to go away, stand in a corner, and let them attempt escapes for free
It's only threating if you are a 1 shot killer or someone like huntress
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653635#Comment_3653635
Why play this character? Even after this "buff" her chase power is still trash. Her stealth is still terrible and clunky.
As someone who plays a lot of Pig, this couldn't be more wrong. She has the best stealth power in the game, it's on demand, has no cooldown, it lowers her height and doesn't have a lullaby or breathing, no other stealth killer has this full package.
Ghostface has a cooldown, can be revealed, and flaps about like a tarpaulin in a hurricane. Myers breaths like Vader and has to ditch his stealth to kill. Wraith gurgles mouthwash and shimmers like a disco ball. Sadako buzzes at you half a mile away. Alien can't fool the motion sensors.
Additionally, an Ambush used correctly is still effective, both in catching survivors off-guard and often in chase.
Now the slowdown will never kill anyone unless the team is absolutely falling apart
Good, that's the whole point. RBTs are not meant to kill. You are meant to kill. You are the killer.
The mere threat of them forces survivors to remove them, and that provides the slowdown. 30 seconds leeway isn't going to make a difference, a 4 box trap is still going to require you to drop everything and prioritise boxes, and you don't know how many you'll need.
The one and only reason to play this character is going for RBT kills and this patch removes that
GOOD. As a Pig player, I weep for all the Pigs I go against who tunnel the survivor with a trap. You are wasting your slowdown doing that. You leave the trapped survivor alone and pressure the other survivors.
Killer pressure arithmetic is simple. You have one survivor hooked, you chase another survivor, that leaves one going for the rescue and one on gens. Throw a trap into the mix and guess which of those survivor tasks can't be completed? The Gens. You chase the trapped survivor and you have no slowdown.
If all of those Pig players stop playing her that way, then these changes have done their job.
Except for how now it will be the optimal play to work on gens with your active trap if there are only a handful of gens left. Your RBT gets activated on the hook, and now it's a better choice to completely ignore the power and go work on a gen to get to the endgame instead of removing it because there is no chance of death.
So they have really removed her slowdown if there's 1-2 gens left because you have no reason to do anything other than get off the hook and go work on a gen and get your adrenaline for endgame. Then if the pig can even punish that is probably dubious at best since now you can't see the boxes to find them even at endgame.
And I don't see why people get up in arms over the pig tunneling a headtrap because it's a game-throwing move unless you know what you are doing. You know what's stronger than tunneling boxes? Tunneling someone off the hook. Every killer in the game can tunnel and most of them do it way better than pig. Significantly better than pig, tunneling head traps is a mid strategy on a mid killer and now it's being nerfed for whatever reason along with pigs who play normally
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653771#Comment_3653771
I feel like if survivors start ignoring their head traps it actually ends up fantastic for you, honestly.
You're not standing in a corner waiting patiently while their timer ticks down, you're generating pressure. They're putting themselves at extreme risk if they start ignoring traps because of a measly thirty second nerf.
30 seconds is a very long time in a game where if you are not dropping people, the gens can easily be done in ~3-4 minutes if you are not running multiple gen slowdown perks. And with a chase power that is overridden by every safe pallet and window in DBD, pig is never going to be downing people fast enough to win without tunneling on the large maps if survivors split up.
There is no reason to ever play this character again if these changes go through, not that there was that much of a good reason to play her currently unless you were a SAW fan. You only ever got RBT kills by tunneling or as a reward if you put out so much pressure a survivor has to choose between taking off their trap or saving a teammate. And there's just way better killers for tunneling so it's not like she was even really that good for that
I also don't agree with "You should never get RBT kills that's not what they are there for" like are we watching the same movies? I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they are there for
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653742#Comment_3653742
Weaker, not weak. It's weak compared to actually letting the traps function as slowdown by letting survivors search boxes.
If you're pressuring multiple survivors, why does it matter the timer is thirty seconds longer? If you're letting them function as slowdown and only pressuring away survivors you happen to see while doing other things, why will this affect you? It shouldn't make a difference unless you're going out of your way to try and force a head-pop, and even then you can still do it.
Because the survivor can now just straight up ignore the trap for an entire minute and still survive it? You can search all 4 boxes in 2 minutes as it is. Now you have a full minute of wiggle room, so unless your team is being massacred you have no reason to even start the searches until your trap is active aka just heal and continue to do gens and completely ignore the helmet if it gets you to endgame
In situations where there are 2-3 gens remaining that is a huge loss of pressure since now you can just rush the gens with your helmet on whereas currently at least you are somewhat pressured to remove it before immediately going back to work on gens
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@WishIcouldmain said:
The actual slowdown that she gets isn't changing. I heard this from someone else who said it well. Head pops were only happening against Solo Q and weak survivors. Once you hit SWFS and higher levels they will drop off. So, this change doesn't affect her traps against high level survivors and will allow weaker survivors to deal with the chase aspect instead which inevitably is more enjoyable and give her better chase against stronger survivors for once.
"Better chase against high level survivors" when her chase power is hard countered by predropping and holding W. So, that's not really how this works. Good survivors will still just predrop, hold W, and now the traps are worthless too. Major L for pig; you can basically finish more than half a gen with a helmet on and have it not matter at this point
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653635#Comment_3653635
I feel like a broken record, here, but people are not supposed to die to RBTs. That is not why you put an RBT on someone, it is not the goal, you aren't supposed to be relying on people dying to RBTs. In a Pig game where everything goes reasonably well and your power is firing on all cylinders, nobody will die to an RBT.
Play a hundred games, if Pig's power is working, nobody will die to an RBT.
That is not what they're for. That isn't the value you're shooting for. I'm going insane, this is what insanity feels like.
Then again, explain why you would ever play the character over someone else. It's like "oh I used this real dumpy chase power to down someone, now my reward is they have to waste a minute off gens" as opposed to "I just downed this guy so fast it saved me an entire minute of chase"
Literally no difference, other than the fact that one character has a strong chase power and is actually fun to play
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653609#Comment_3653609
I mean... okay?
She's still getting overall buffed even if a very specific thing you liked to do gets slightly weaker.
Getting her chase power buffed to be merely terrible from worthless does not make up for the fact nobody will ever die from a RBT again
Why play this character? Even after this "buff" her chase power is still trash. Her stealth is still terrible and clunky. Now the slowdown will never kill anyone unless the team is absolutely falling apart
The one and only reason to play this character is going for RBT kills and this patch removes that
Throw her in the grave with Sadako already, these reworks are terrible. The fact they just nerfed billy because "missing a chainsaw meant nothing" and then now buff huntress so you need to dodge ~seven~ fing hatchets in a row before you get a break in chase is wild and tells you everything you need to know about these devs
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649163#Comment_3649163
Read it again. More often than not, I didn’t even have the chance to use the tail because the loop is too high. Your last paragraph isn’t a valid talking point. Being able to win the match shouldn’t be contingent on “do they have a potato?” Having to rely on there being a weak link for the killer to win is bad game design.
You can use the tail at every loop in the game. Maybe you can't use it all points of that loop, but if there is a window or a pallet that's always enough of a clearance for you to hit people at. A lot of the dirtiest hits I get are winding the tail just as I am coming around the corner to a pallet, hitting the tiniest of survivor pixels as they continue to greed the loop. Because of the oval shaped survivor hitboxes you can still get huntress-esque hits with the tail, damaging survivors who are essentially entirely out of your view around a corner. It will take a fair amount of practice until you start getting those hits reliably though.
If there is an entire lobby of evenly matched players and the killer is on a balanced character it's supposed to end in a 2k. If you are getting 3ks or above the MMR is supposed to rise until you are getting 2ks again. A lot of people seem to forget that part. A player is only a "weak link" relative to the killers skill level. So if there are no "weak links" (to you) and you are getting 2k's that means the game is working perfectly as intended
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Pretty hot take imo. Xeno is ridiculously strong, although yes it is very punishing to miss the tail and turrets can be annoying.
But once you have played him a bit and know when to pre-wind the tail up to hit people at loops it's so disgusting and feels downright unfair at times, and then combined with high mobility turrets really do need to exist to keep Xeno in check.
Then for all the survivor sided stuff, it's really not. Maybe if you are in a 3-4 man SWF with meta perks but for your average game it's usually overwhelming killer sided and only takes 1 potato to cascade the entire team into failure
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Are people really in here arguing when the devs came out and said "We sold enough of the Alien chapter, and will now be nerfing this OP perk?"
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@Skillfulstone said:
I heard rumors that lootboxes will be added soon in DBD Core.
Lootboxes only have their place in free-to-play games in order to make money somehow.
I always defended DBD's monetization because it was reliable and you knew what you were paying for. Characters (and by association, perks) were decently priced and most (licensed content doesn't really count since it's pretty much out of BHVR's hands) can be grinded anyway. Sure cosmetics are costly (often even more than entire characters) but that's expected and I'd argue a good thing since cosmetics being costly makes gameplay-related content cheaper.
Nothing is random, people don't have to spend potentially hundreds of dollars for the chance to get a shiny skin (like the mobile version) or characters, people know what they pay for and choose to pay that price. I really don't want to see DBD Core fall into that pit.
In this day and age, DBD Core is one of the handful of multiplayer games with NO lootboxes/gacha monetization. It's fair. I really do hope those rumors are just that, rumors.
No lootboxes in DBD. Just good ol' pure pay to win. Release OP content then nerf it after a few months is the standard here.
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@NerfDHalready said:
if they are under a pallet no, you should slug. if they have a flashlight they need to keep a bit closer and if they do you can get a hit or swap to chasing them instead (yes slugging again). but more often than not people die near objects or in closed areas or the rescuer will run a bit too far and you'll be able to pick without them being able to save with fl.
And what if the person underneath the pallet also has power struggle?
Complete BS combo lol. Pick them up ASAP and get background player'd, or let them get a free escape due to power struggle. Incredible.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643345#Comment_3643345
Nothing is stopping you from going for 7 stacks of condemn before death hook with the changes. All the changes do is help make condemn finishers a bigger part of her kit.
Do note that her condemn mori is much shorter than a normal mori and faster than picking up and hooking. Plus you don't lose a hook to the sacrifice either. So it's not like there's no reason to mori a survivor on death hook.
Well, survivors having permanent wallhacks on the TVs and a gigantic "don't step here" ring makes getting all 7 stacks incredibly unlikely even if they do get more locked in now.
Literally the best part of her kit is demanifested flicker mindgames right now, it's so bad. And I don't think these changes will actually change that either, just make her a little less masochistic to try and play
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@Xernoton said:
I'd rank them like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZOEGQ5BJ1QSQ/my-image.png
The D-tier addons are completely useless. They do nothing. You could bring them or not but it wouldn't make a difference. You use the chainsaw non stop anyway.
The Filthy Slippers are so low because they have no positive effect on their own. You need to combine them with the Apex Muffler or it just won't do anything. The survivors can hear your chainsaw very clearly, so they'll know that you're getting closer. The Apex Muffler is in a similar position, however it has more chances for synergy.
I think Tuned Carburettor swings a bit too much from being a huge asset to being a detriment to rank it much higher. It's a bit unreliable in my opinion.
Putting a mangled addon above addons that will just straight up land saws you otherwise would never get is questionable. Good survivors might not even heal against billy anyways if they realize you are good with the chainsaw
I'm also 99% sure the cooldown addons will enable a lot of stupid things like completely whiffing a saw / using the saw to zone and then getting another saw off in time because the recovery is almost instant. Not sure why those are anywhere but S tier especially if stacked
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This same bug was closed as a "technical issue" but I am also getting massive intermittent frame drops as Pyramid Head only, especially when playing McMillian maps, and especially on shelter woods, when placing the sword in the ground. Have no frame drops when not using the power or on any other killers
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Wait till everyone is dead and look for hatch or camp a door, these games are why left behind / sole survivor / low profile / etc exist
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635173#Comment_3635173
The turret spawn point IS where you pop up from, and there's one at every gen location. The only "turret deadzones" are areas away from gens. If I'm working on a gen and the turret starts beeping loudly, there's only 1 spot they are exiting from to harass that gen, which is the spot I got the turret. Even if you focus on your lower TR rather than utilizing tunnels, the turrents still give away you're approach as if you have a TR of 41 meters.
There are maps where the tunnels are incredibly far from any nearby gens. And no, there isn't always one at every gen location. I can think of a few off the top of my head, like the Grim Pantry main building or the Disturbed Ward main building. Tunnels do not spawn there but gens do, so it would be a big waste of time dragging turrets all the way over
And if you are running a nasty build (batteries included, emergency bolts, etc) it makes chases there very difficult for survivors once the gen is done since you are then a 120% movespeed ranged killer who can vault windows almost as fast as survivors and still gain bloodlust if you somehow can't catch them quickly. I'd almost go as far to say that build turns Xeno into one of the best anti-main building killers in the game
And in situations where the gens / tunnels are tightly clumped you can't ever be sure which tunnel the Xeno will be coming out of
Finally, I did say once you have broken a turret or two. A minute cooldown is a long time and you can get a lot done in 1 minute in DBD
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I don't see the point at all of locking in 2 stacks of condemned at a time. So best case you still need to dump 5 TVs into someone consecutively to bypass a hook stage which is probably a game-throwing amount of time depending on the map
And if you lock in 4 that means they are dead on hook and condemned didn't matter pretty much at all even if you get the last 3
An M1 killer with good mobility and (bad) stealth is still just an M1 killer. Might as well just play wraith after these changes, which sucks because Sadako is such an icon and now Dredge once again returns as the go-to option for "omnipresent map control killer"
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634229#Comment_3634229
The stealth is kinda overshadowed when the flame throwers give away your approach. They beep when you approach, even when underground and it's obvious where you're gonna pop up from.
Sure but after breaking 1 or 2 there's a pretty huge window where you can run across the map as a 16m terror radius killer. There's also deadzones where no tunnels appear, which is bad for your mobility but also means you won't find any turrets out in that area.
Not sure I agree it's always obvious where you are going to pop up from, the turrets beep based on your distance from them; and many maps have huge gaps from where you activate the portal underground to where you pop up.
So the turret will make it sound like you are far away when in reality you are half a second from coming out of the tunnel next to someone. That's also why his mobility is nutty on some maps, because while the portals are dumping you out right next to the gens, underground the entrances might be less than a second apart
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634198#Comment_3634198
The range is lackluster. It's hard not to compare it to Pyramid head's base range of 8 or Nemi who starts at 5 and goes to 6. As for addons, while sure he has some handy ones like the purple one you mentioned, there's a reason people pick the anti-flamethrower ones. You HAVE to be in crawler mode to benefit from most of them, and being removed from your ability is a problem Nemi and PH don't have.
I don't see why you would compare them to Xeno at all. Neither have mobility or the capability to be a pseudo stealth killer with monitor + abuse.
Xeno can have insane mobility on some maps, and can instantly get to gens that normal 115 killers almost have to forfeit (top of dead dawg, mothers dwelling, etc come to mind). That actually gives him options to drop a chase and not have it be a game-throwing decision like it would be for your average 115 killer on a large map.
Pyramid head goes down to 110 while using the ranged attack and it's super telegraphed and easy to dodge at range unless you are animated locked.
Nemesis whip is objectively better than the Xeno tail, but still, has the 3 health state problem which can't be overstated in a game where the first chase is arguably the most important, and also when all the best gen defense perks rely on you hooking someone in the current meta. Xeno gets the ball rolling so much faster than Nemesis ever will and it puts him miles ahead in terms of power even if Nemesis ends up stronger by the endgame.
I would also argue that you only need 1 anti-flamethrower addon and even then, with good tail whips you could get away with none
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@LordGlint said:
His tail is kinda lackluster when you start looking at stats. His tail's reach is less than Nemi's T1 whip and has a longer cooldown than even a M1. Makes it feel like your being punished for using it when you couldve M1ed instead. It also doesn't have the benefits like pallet breaks and such.
His map traversal is nice if you have to cross the map, but it doesn't feel like it makes up for a power that just feels bad AND can be removed.
DBD is also a snowball game, and it's very realistic for Xeno to be chasing someone within the first 10-15 seconds of a match starting; without needing to run lethal pursuer
The tail damages straight away and doesn't give the survivors 8(!!) extra health states to work with
Plus he does have some pretty ridiculous addon options. Having almost permanent superior anatomy would be super strong on even an M1 killer, let alone on a 115 ranged one
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yeah, I am tired of seeing PGTW/Pain Res on every Killer. And then Killers have the audacity to complain about Deja-vu while they run two way stronger Regression-Perks.
And it is even more annoying when you face strong Killers using that Combination. Alchemist Ring-Blight with PGTW and Pain Res, yay. Or Nurse with Mangled Add On and PGTW/Pain Res.
I really dislike this low-effort Slowdown-Meta. Hitting someone should not grant you an instant Slowdown via Healing. Hooking someone should not cause that much Regression.
PGTW is low effort regression? That's about as high effort as it gets. I'm sick of having borderline perfect chases on lower tier killers and losing almost 3 gens for it because all survivors have to do is predrop some god pallets to waste tons of time
And meanwhile meta survivor perks are literally 0 effort. Come off the hook full HP for 80 seconds, get up off the ground for free and faster, just do gens faster with no downsides, etc etc
PGTW + Pain Res are literally the only reason you can do some target swapping on lower tier killers at higher MMRs. Otherwise it would legit be hard tunnel out the first person you see at 5 gens and there's no other strategy. Gen defense is now dead with the latest update and PGTW alone isn't enough to slow down 3x survivors all sitting on gens while you swap targets
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I think just back to 5 seconds would be fine
Working on both hook states you would see people put on OTR / Unbreakable and then just go bodyblock the killer while invincible
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@alaenyia said:
I do not run either of these perks but have seen them used occasionally. Not even regularly. But the argument that this is too strong with a 4man SWF is pretty much automatically invalid considering it has been stated multiple times by DbD that the prevalence of 4man SWF is well under 10% of matches. So the majority of the people you play against are solo or maybe 2man.
This perk has immediate drawbacks for the survivors in that now you have 2 injured people and if they take a hit they have to mend, so this is not some walk-in-the-park "get outta slug" free card. This levels the field a bit considering things like Iron Will were nerfed into uselessness a long time ago.
Camp/Tunnel/Slug players are not employing a strategy, they are lazy and don't want to bother gaining game knowledge and actual strategies. My preferred killers are Trapper/Myers/Doctor, so nothing meta or top tier, but have absolutely no problem finding and hooking survivors w/o C/T/S because I just know where they are likely to be from years of gameplay.
Players who don't employ cheap tactics will be more successful overall against this perk combo.
Lmfao. That's actually the weakest argument I have ever read against the combo, and I have read a lot of them congrats.
"Instaheal + Invincibility on demand is OK because the survivor has to MEND after!"
Bahaha
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625722#Comment_3625722
I'm trying it out on a few killers. I made a SM build with batteries, STBFL, rapid brutality and surge. Works great to just chase ppl, negate bodyblocks and screw with ppl's idea of distance. I LOVE when I see a gen get done in shack for example, Cuz then I'm bound to get a hit, followed by a speedy 2nd hit.
It's pretty solid standalone, although a bit too random for me to use by itself.
I think with Terminus + NWO it really shines since it basically turns into an uncleansable NOED depending on where the gens are. When you have doors that spawn close together it almost guarantees kills during the endgame at times. It makes you patrol the doors too fast and they can't get rid of being broken. Fantastic.
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@Halloulle said:
I'm by no means an Onryo expert ... but can someone please explain to me how exactly the changes disincentivise / lead to Sadako not spamming teleport? Like, from what I gather it's still the most efficient way to get everyone condemned and is still more efficient than hooking (except if the hook is right next to the downed surv)?
Because the condemned range is reduced to 16m? So spamming teleports won't do anything except randomly apply a stack or two of condemned to a couple survivors instead of putting the entire team halfway towards condemnation. You also need to hook them to lock in the progress which eh im on the fence about. Since it basically will only impact the first hook, by the second hook you don't need the mori anymore since they will be dead next down anyways. Really it incentives you to tunnel someone out in between dumping TVs into them, otherwise your mori is gonna be mainly cosmetic.
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@Malkhrim said:
Sorry but I can't avoid finding funny whenever anyone suggests a more balanced or killer-sided map is "the worst map of all time" or "the worst in the history of the game" when there were lots of survivor-sided maps that were so bad there shouldn't even be a comparison.
The map has dead ends in some of its EDGES, like many other maps. Just don't go into that direction. The deadzones were far worse in old Shelter Woods. But some maps are actually more unbalanced for NOT having dead zones at the edges. That is one of the things that makes current Ormond and old Eyrie of Crows so bad. They are technically not among the biggest maps, but they had insanely big distances that needed to be crossed during or not during chases, because even the edges were filled with important places for you to go.
The main building is not even near the worst. It's just not as insanely strong as others there were in the history of this game, like Badham with its god-pallets and two windows, one of them being insanely strong, Garden of Joy with 3 windows, two of them being insanely strong and ONE OF THEM CONNECTED TO A GOD PALLET (still in the game, btw), old Haddonfield (hell, even CURRENT haddonfield has a pretty bad design because there's no room for mindgames in that building, it's often just chase around the same side and repeat, unless you have powers or perks that circumvent that, of course), old Ironworks of Misery or, I don't know, ALL THE OLD MAIN BUILDING WITH GOD WINDOWS, which have been fixed in a massive update in 2020 (all of that not counting the even older maps that had INFINITES, no single map today can be as bad as a map with infinites). Still, I'm pretty sure Mother's Dwelling can still spawn a god window. Nostromo's main building has multiple pallets, but they can be played around, one of them can have a lot of value but still be countered, and there's even a unique way of slowing down the killer that can be reactivated. Hell, that is GOOD design for the most part. Let's not forget it also helps to hide line of sight for both killers and survivors to make stealth plays.
Walls and enviroments are bumpy? You know what map had a WAAAAAAAAY worse bumping problem? Garden of Joy until a short while ago, it was fixed just when Chucky got released. The clutter on that map was also short enough to make the killer get stuck by stuff outside their first person line of sight.
The checkspots can be a little harder because of the shapes of the walls, but the paths are mostly similar to other jungle gyms in the game and mindgames play the same in lots of cases. It is still better than having tons of loops with no room for mindgames like, let's say, old Cowshed, or almost no pallets at all like old Shelter Woods.
Filler pallets are just not the most safe, but there are many of them and they can still waste the killer's time more than enough if you play them well. It's better to have multiple pallets that aren't very safe and need to be played carefully than a buch of fully-safe loops with god pallets.
Windows absolutely ARE playable. Even the ones that don't put you right into safety can be used to at least gain some time.
The "shack" can still cut the killer from sight to stop bloodlust and it's pallet is far from meaningless. You just have to know when to use it. Either stun the killer when he is turning or predrop to gain distance and reach the nearest loop. It's actually GOOD to have a new, different building instead of just the same old shack that plays the same in almost every map.
Gen spawns? Post-rework Haddonfield, RPD and Dead Dawg Saloon have much worse gen spawns. Old RPD had gens that were so far away spread you couldn't realistically defend them, new RPD has gens that are placed in extremely safe locations that allow survivors to see the killer from afar and start running away to the right direction really soon, post-rework Haddonfield, as well as Dead Dawg, had not only that but a gen spread that favors 3-gens by a lot. Hell, in current Shelter Woods I've seen an unbreakable 4 GEN formation once.
And beside all of that, please, old Haddonfield, I mean the ORIGINAL Haddonfield, before the first changes, had fences that were so long you had to walk around insane distances to get were the survivors were, only for them to switch sides at the same time while being impossible to mindgame since you were visible to them the whole time, AND on top of that they had windows and were connected to safe pallets. That alone makes any comparison between Haddonfield and Nostromo not even close.
Yeah the OP must not have played DBD very long to say "of all time" because there were some absolutely horrendous maps over the years. Man has clearly never had to chase people around the infinites of old haddonfield or dealt with the 30+ chainable safe pallets on pre-rework ormond.
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@glitchboi said:
The nerf to 4% might be fine for compensation with 2 stacks being base-kit, but removing its ability to dodge the loss of stacks? Beyond ridiculous. STBFL is a powerful perk but it's not game-breaking and I wouldn't consider it to be overpowered either.
I don't see why it is even being nerfed. I considered it a 'meh' perk at best since no good survivor team is going to easily let you get M1 hits and it takes half the game to get it to a state where it is even helpful.
Maybe it's being nerfed because people can camp with it at endgame? Idk. That's about all it was good for against a really good team. And a perk like forced hesitation just blows it out of the water when it comes to hook camping so it's not even that good to run for a camping/tunneling playstyle.
I'd say it will be pretty much dead once these changes go through, I use it on like 2-3 killers occasionally and now it will be 0.
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@Xernoton said:
I must say Billy could be in a really good spot depending on how well they execute this update. The proposed changes sound great on paper and they even listened and will do something about his collisions (thank you, devs!!!). They tackled most of his main issues and it makes me think that there might be hope for Billy yet.
I just hope they don't touch Off-Brand Motor Oil (or at least don't remove the effect). It may come as a suprise but there are people who actually appreciate not having their eardrums busted every time they use the chainsaw.
I'm not quite sure why they changed that thing with controller sensitivity, though. It will just mess with some people's muscle memory (though, I personally won't be affected).
I can't wait to test it on the PTB. I expected the worst but the dev update gives me a lot of hope for my boy.
Sadako sounds good too and I like the direction they are taking. The only problem I see is that she might become even more of a noob stomper than she already is because her kit is so complex.
I highly doubt it solves one of the main issues with Billy which is hitting a twig at a loop and losing a chase because of the invisible hitboxes. Even a smaller chainsaw hitbox won't resolve that since some of those invisible hitboxes are quite large. I'm sure you will still have instances of hitting the hanging moss hitboxes (lmao) on a map like Family Residence and essentially still be reduced to an M1 killer on some of those loops.
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@johntec said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620718#Comment_3620718
Thanks for the reply, I personally feel the same way. Mid ranged killer are always a bit disliked by the community because of the reasons you mentioned. I was just really sad that such an iconic character, which I wanted since I started playing the game, got a power like this, which would automatically lead to this "boring" gameplay in chase. However over the last months they have really grown on me.
To answer your question, I've also played Xeno a lot and I always try to use the tunnels as much as possible. The information u can get is great. But it also depends on how the control stations spawn. During the christmas event, the tunnelspawns weren't always near gens which could sometimes be beneficial as it allowed u to find and interupt survivors who are healing or hiding. But sometimes a map would spawn with not a single control station in one area, then it's very difficult to use the tunnels to your benefit.
Of course it depends on the situation, and in some games u might not use the tunnels at all, but if the survivors split up and do seperate gens, especially on big maps, then the tunnels combined with a sort of hit and run playstyle are a great tool I think.
You also mentioned that survivors often prerun whenever you come out of a control station. Here it can sometimes be beneficial not to use the control station right next to the gen, but one that allows u to get close to it and deny survivors acces to the map, zoning them to the edge of the map. This often worked really well for me, but of course is not always possible, depending on the rng.
I think to really use a control station / tunnel playstyle you need surveillance. Or that's what worked best for me when I tried it, just randomly using tunnel addons had mixed results.
It's pretty clear given the volume of addons dedicated to attacking directly after coming out of a tunnel that it is intended to be Xeno's playstyle.
But on any given map half the stations will be useless to attack from, maybe 25% are decent, and 25% just dump you out straight into the survivors on a gen to get a free hit. Trying to preserve the gens next to the strongest control stations seemed to work pretty well. It also led to some strange situations where you were furiously defending a gen you should never normally think twice about (i.e. the one on top of dead dawg, or on the mothers dwelling balcony, etc) since coming out of those tunnels was always a free hit. Surveillance was key to knowing which gens to pop out next to for free damage, and the gens with bad control stations were abandoned
Overall it seemed to work very well, but I don't really enjoy the grindy gen defense playstyle so I stopped using it and went back to my normal build
Unrelated, huge swathes of map with no control stations is a mixed blessing. You have no mobility there, but also you are unlikely to encounter turrets so your chases should be very strong
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@Seraphor said:
What qualifies as 'well designed'?
Like many killers, Xenomorph's tail attack is not easy to aim on controller. You will miss a lot of hits that a PC player wouldn't simply due to fighting your own joystick sensitivity. This means that the penalty gor a missed tail attack is disproportionate for console players.
That kind of discrepancy isn't the result of good design.
Secondly you have turrets. These are big game changers, that either destroy the killers power or do nothing, but once again disproportionately affect console users (harder to hit with tail). Turrets are either useless against a decent PC Xenomorph who can hit every turret, or oppressive against Xenomorphs who struggle to hit them. This makes for a relatively high skill floor just to use your main lethal power.
Before the change to the tail attack cooldown, he was actually in a decent place for me. But was apparently too powerful in the hands of PC players. Now the penalty for missing a tail attack, on a survivor or turret, is too prohibitive to actually use it.
I wish he had better stealth capabilities to make up for it, but a 24m TR is still far too big.
If it was a 16m TR it would be pretty decent. I could play him as a semi stealth killer, where even though I'm ignoring my M2 (and therefore turrets are "useless") the turrets would still serve as a counter in giving away my presence.
I'd settle for 'alternative power' add ons (like mirror myers, or pallet freddy) which disable tail attacks in exchange for no TR when in crawler mode.
You could always just run monitor and abuse for a 16m terror radius killer?
Also people sleep on the cat carrier addon, and it gets ranked low on every addon tier list I have seen for whatever reason.
I usually run that and monitor and it does basically get you a pseudo stealth killer. Depending on the map it's actually incredibly useful to get burned by the turrets and I will find myself looking for them to get another stealth boost at times. Then usually emergency bolts and brutal strength so you are a beast in chase with the power or temporarily a stealth M1 killer who can still chase pretty well because of brutal.
Xeno is also one of the better trail of torment users, since he can kick a gen in the corner of the map then show up somewhere else entirely with the stealth a few seconds later.
There's plenty of options to play him heavily geared towards stealth but people need it to be a braindead button to hit like Chucky I guess
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@TheArbiter said:
Ever since they added the ability for people to disarm her traps without needing a flashlight I have seen 0 people play her. It is extremely easy to disarm and bait her traps now
Hag has been battered by all of the latest meta's and having survivors just be able to wipe away traps was the total nail in the coffin imo. I have legit have not played a single match of Hag since they introduced that change.
Never thought I would see the day that Trapper was better than Hag but I think we are there.
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It's decent but now overshadowed by coup for most killers. A lot of the killers who wanted to use it were the M1 instadown killers and those are just better outright with Coup.
It's good with game afoot + rancor + NWO for an endgame build though for sure. Kicking a pallet to get the game afoot speed boost then the chase drops so you catch up with 10% haste feels great when it works
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605426#Comment_3605426
hiding within terror radius isn't any harder than hiding outside of it, let's be honest. distortion isn't op or anything, but it recharges a bit too fast, making it impossible to burn through stacks unless you specifically go for perks/add ons for it. if it's intended to counter auras completely, then it should be balanced around that like reduced aura block time and no hiding scratch marks idk. and for some unknown reason it recharging in chase unlike similar terror radius perks like stake out and pebble has always bugged me out, kind of takes away killers' counterplay option.
if a killer is reliant on aura perks to track and make a kill, that sounds like a skill issue with game sense and map awareness.
oh and i agree with that lmao i'm a shameless nwth abuser and finding people with that always feel super cheap, hence why i can't really complain about the strength of distortion. only poor innocent bbq only peeps are getting unfair treatment from the perk.
Then there is me, burning through every distortion in the game in a single nightfall as dredge with the lavalier microphone.
I remember when killer tracking perks were things like whispers and took skill to use. Or at least a somewhat limiting requirement like getting a hook and they are far away for BBQ. Now it's "open a locker and get wallhacks on everyone" or "kick a gen and get wallhacks on everyone" or "use your ability and get wallhacks on everyone"
Screw that, I like being able to hide in this hide and seek game
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@bjorksnas said:
Distortion and calm spirit
Just kinda boring perks that counter other perks, I find it gives my teammates a bad playstyle and usually someone gets tunneled out or killed early if the killer is playing nice because its effectively a 3v1 instead of a 4v1 because they don't take pressure off the team by being targeted at all and have the same experience on the other end a majority of the time where they don't really show up till the end of the match
Aura reading perks are out of control so I don't see why you would hate someone for running distortion. I kinda like, you know, using positioning and making smart decisions and taking chases when I'm in favorable positions rather than having a Nurse teleport on top of my head through a wall for free
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@please_explain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600165#Comment_3600165
Tool box nerf had little to no impact and there was not buffed Deja Vu and Hyperfocus back then and BNP could have been countered, they nerfed gen speed and buffed gen perks so is that rly a nerf? while gen regression got gutted so I still stand by my statement weakest regression meta that dbd has ever had.
And many maps have been gutted, most new killers have strong anti-loop even though some maps will leave entire zones with a few trash pallets and an LT wall, DS was gutted so tunneling is trivially easy to do in many situations, and stealth has basically been removed from the game unless you are running distortion + calm spirit because wallhack addons/perks are coming with almost every new killer and ultimate weapon is meta
The regression perks are not as good as they used to be but survivors are weaker than ever so they don't have to be
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600752#Comment_3600752
This is a stupid quote: but Rewarding for getting a kill is why killers tunnel
To make killer not tunneling, you have to reward for not tunneling, while at the same time punish for doing so, and still give survivors 40% chance to win.
I saw people saying if a survivor get hooked once, get 33% debuff then 66% if hooked twice. They didnt think the problem on survivors side if killer manage multiple hooks early, even without debuff, its already no chance for survivors to win.
No, that idea doesnt fix the fact survivors would rush Gen even harder before they get their 33% debuff. Its either 3 Gens first chase, or guaranteed lose
The game isnt about finding a way so killers dont tunnel, you still need to keep that 40% chance to win for survivors.
Killers do less than 6 hooks for 3 kills is the reason the game balanced around killers making 6 hooks.
They should just buff DS back to 5 seconds or more and be done with it. Maybe even throw in hiding scratch marks / blood / grunts of pain for like 5-10 seconds on top of it after the DS happens.
In a lot of cases it's basically the only way you even get a chance to buy your team some time before you die and with the current pain res + pop meta your team might have to effectively complete ~7+ generators which is insane to think about when you realize you are supposed to survive long enough for that to happen when you are getting tunneled at 5 gens by a lethal pursuer Nurse or something
Off the record is too easily bypassed and a lot of killers like Huntress / Pyramid head / etc can basically burn it without any real penalty if they are proxy camping you on top of tunneling you
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Much much easier to dodge, very telegraphed. You can get huge W distance every time they miss, or even if they hit sometimes, assuming you are not cornered. You can't use the power to zone if you spammed it a few times.
And if you are cornered you are gonna go down fast to a lot of killers, not just PH. Knight probably being the worst offender there since he can basically just AFK on one side of the loop and send guards at you
Also Pyramid is bugged right now and his camera goes all wonky every time you put the sword in the ground so he's suffering from the Pig problem that still hasn't been fixed
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599045#Comment_3599045
The Turrets BARELY do anything. Xeno is still a good Killer. It is just not a braindead Killer anymore where you can spam your power without punishment.
2 stacked turrets is basically guaranteed to take an alien out of the power, no matter what addons they have
Xeno can be really good, and threading the needle feels amazing when it works. But also, DBD has completely jacked collision as anyone who has ever played Bubba, Billy, Blight, etc can tell you. And Xeno suffers from it almost just as bad. I have had plenty of game-losing tail attacks where it literally collides with the air.
You would almost have to spam Xeno 24/7 to actually know what you can and cannot tail attack around because you will have things like cars on springwood that have giant invisible hitboxes where the entire particle effect for the tail hitting an object is levitating and even the survivors can seem confused that they didn't go down after the attack is absorbed by nothing
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@Ayodam said:
If you know a player is loitering for a save you should hit or chase them off. One should only be surprised by the perk once because after that one knows it’s in play. The counterplay is the same as if you were dealing with any player attempting a flashlight save.
How many perks must you run as survivor to counter things the killer can do? I’m just curious. Because you’ve stated you don’t want to use the perk that exists to counter blinding. Just curious if this cuts the other way.
Yeah and it's busted enough you can full well know survivors have it and there will be nothing you can do. I have only run into a SWF using 3+ background players and flip flop + power struggle once; and I put on lightborn since they had 4x flashlights in the lobby, but even that that was enough to realize how broken this perk is on coordinated survivors.
The survivor goes down on a pallet and you either pick them up within ~10 seconds or they get out for free. But then someone is threatening the save from a light year away so even by the time you would walk over and hit them to chase them off the power struggle is already active and your down is nullified.
And still this doesn't go into how you can flashbang the killer even if they are looking at a wall. There is basically nothing you can do against that since the background player can be so far away and still get the save
The only thing holding this perk back is that it really needs a SWF to be truly broken but even solo's can abuse it a decent amount
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@Halloulle said:
yeah, nah. surv is pretty horrible atm. glad the last page in tome has released so I just stick with doing the challenge and not giving a darn about the rest of the match.
almost done with the tome tho, so will probs take a week or soo off until killer qs calm down again and I can do my killer challenges in peace
The matchmaking is just terrible. It always has been, but ever since MMR the games have been totally whack. At least old red ranks you could count on your teammates being sweatlords
Right now it's like you will get literal baby urban evading mikela's immersing behind bushes and such when someone else is being chased (indicator on hud and everything) entirely across the map. Then your killer is a cracked cross-mapping huntress with thousands of hours and full meta build
Literal pain, you can't ever win in that sort of matchup even if you are good enough to run the killer for a decent amount because nobody is doing gens and also teammates are going down in 5 seconds if the killer even looks in their general direction
Then you swap over to killer and the first lobby is a P100 SWF. DBD is trash like that sometimes
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Survivor you can spend 1/2 the game or more AFK on gens, can't really be hard camped anymore so you get off the hooks basically for free, will have the OTR/DS combo back in a month or two for multiple extra lives if you get tunneled, have a team to bail you out if you make mistakes, and also if your team loses you get a chance at a totally free escape because the game just gives them out to the last survivor sometimes
That's more stressful than all gameplay being chase interactions, having to outplay 4 different people, with no team to help you? lol
I'm a killer main and I think survivor is chill asf, and with sole survivor you don't even have to care if your team is getting stomped you can get your free door escape for extra MMRs
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And here I am thinking it is useless because good SWFs just 99 a gen and let deadlock block that one all game. Also 2 survivors can finish gens simultaneously and it won't activate. It's good vs. noobs and solo's though for sure