Slurpin
Slurpin
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097831#Comment_4097831
I play both and survivor is easier im sorry. if you play both sides alot of the macro from killer transfers to survivor while not macro from survivor doesnt normally transfer to killer. Survivor is also way less stress full and why we have a killer anxiety epidemic but not a survivor anxiety epidemic (but I do think survivor anxiety is a thing judt not on the same level as killer)
How is it easier? It's less stressful, sure, but getting good at survivor takes way longer than killer, and there are a few reasons for it:
- As survivor, there's a good chance most of the game you're not practicing chase, meanwhile as killer you're ALWAYS practicing chase.
- Survivors have to adapt to every killer and their counterplay. Killers have the same survivors to face all the time with occasional perks to lookout for (survivors also have to deal with killer perks).
- Macro was much harder as survivor before the hud, now it's a bit less difficult. Sure.
- I do think that since you're the weaker role in 1 v 1, it is HARDER to improve overall. This is also why getting wins as killer as beginner vs. beginner is hilariously easy.
Most of what you said is just 'killer causes anxiety and teaches you more'. It doesn't mean it's harder.
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People are giving multiple so I'll do the same.
- A lot of killer PLAYERS are pretty bad, and I do mean some that put quite a bit of time in the game. I feel like those that act like the game's balanced against them are simply not good. The fact that actually good players need to do insane challenges to lose on some killers speaks volume of the gap between good players and low-ceiling and jaded players that need to whine quite often. Yes the game has BS, but you have more than enough tools to makeup for it. How the hell can you say you're at any sort of disadvantage against survivors unless you purposely bring very crap killers? (I also think MOST killers can blast the majority of public matches if wielded by someone that isn't bad)
- A lot of survivor players are awful too. I'm less inclined to call this a hot take because in the end most casuals go there.
- Killers that say survivor is easy or autopilot only play one side seriously and/or are outright coping. Getting good at survivor is wayyyyyy harder than at killer.
- Survivors that are unable to tell the killer had the right mind to tunnel depending on the tides of the game are just bad at the game and likely not very bright — meaning I think their opinions should be be weighed as far less valuable than someone who plays both sides.
- Nerfing Save the Best of Last was incredibly silly. With pallet density as it is, I don't even think it was ever even close to too strong. Not really a hot take but my God that garbage decision was certainly HOT.
- You should not be playing multiplayer video games if t-bagging makes you angry enough to write a rant about it.
I'm purposely being spicy here because I see too many cold takes. I personally am not actually passionate about any of this, but I like to be on theme!
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I'm getting cakes at a similar rate on both my survivor and killer. I hardly feel like there's much of a difference in rates with the items just taking other rarity slots.
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survivor mains are complaning and ruining the matches for others and being toxic (killers can be toxic as well but they are not as often as they are)
Well you're a killer main complaining and trying to cripple the side that has less than a 40% win rate across experience levels. And you are not a rarity around here. As for toxicity, you've fully admitted to playing killer more and face four times the individuals as killer than survivor (as your opponent), obviously you'll have that perception. Killers are not this weird race of people that are inherently less toxic than survivors.
Addressing your video — This whole 'autopilot' spiel is complete cope. Only in this game can a consistent 70% win rate (for people who actually get decent at killer) complain that the other side has it so easy that they can consistently turn off their brains. This is diabolically nanners to me. I came back less than a week again and without having some sweaty mindset I am up around 75% of my games being 3k+. And I'm not good, and I'm learning a new killer (Ghoul, though to be fair this is a very strong killer).
I have two theories as to why these sorts of videos are made:
1. They know their audience and know they can turn a mild and fleeting frustration into content they'll like. You see this often in very killer-oriented content creators who clearly exaggerate some issues while conveniently overlooking the myriad of things they are using for easy wins.2. They're not as good as they think they are. See, you want to know what true autopilot is? Beginner killer vs. Beginner survivors. You're going to win so much it's actually intoxicating. And I am CONVINCED that because of matchmaking and these highs, people have an overinflated sense of their skill level. Surely, after watching all these Hens and Otz videos, they should be steamrolling these super toxic SWF's. Then they cry to high heavens because they encounter people either at their level or higher.
It's often times both, with these super killer-main lot also suffering from a severe skill issue.
This is why I defer to someone like Hens when it comes to more general insights on both sides as he's the sort of player that plays both, dabbles with public games but also competitive, and always tries to understand the core issues at play. While also just being way better at the game than most of these other creators.
Anyway, that was my ramble as I return to this game. It's been fun so far.
PS: Jason is perhaps the closest thing to an autopilot killer currently. Even mediocre killer players are capable of punching up with this character. That said, I'll never actually say it's 'autopilot'. But it's close. -
@ChuckingWong said:
•Kaneki:
…. unsurprisingly (not just you, many do this) you are taking 0% into account on your own skill level. Be humble, the killer just came out.
From a previous conversation of you not using knights power in chase, I dont know how good you really are at killer. I am leaning on not that good when comments like this come out.
Should probably make a few vids of your play with Kaneki before we can go further. Theres free software (OBS) thats easy to setup.
•Balance
Ill say that yes, we should balance around average players. Not JRM. I dont play dbd as a career and neither do the majority of players. BHVR has been doing this incorrectly though for awhile and have been balancing around the higher end, not the highest, but the higher end.
My take for awhile has always been. If you want to que up with a full team, you get custom games. Not pub matches. Or there needs to be some incentive as a killer when it happens in your matches.
•Nurse
The brief thing about you guys going on about nurse?
1) Theres a few things they could do to fix her, starting with more cooldown to her blinks. Just a couple of seconds maybe.
2) Remove bookmark, you are a troll if you use this addon. (used to main her so I judge heavily)
3) Possibly do testing to reduce distance on blinks as well. Maybe bracelet level (20% reduced)Honestly a very important thing to say. People would blame anything other than their skill level in this game.
And let's face it, it's probably the truth in this situation. And a lot of other whiny threads.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900510#Comment_3900510
A power role in other games is where, generally, the 1 killer has more kind of control over the match, while the others try to overcome that. In this game, it's 1 side making the other side their plaything, which is almost always the survivors unless they're the ones getting smurfed. That's what very low skill requirement gens allow. It's just efficiency; do your objective and you'll win. And the survivor's objective getting finished so fast means the killer doesn't have time to do his. The thing is survivors don't have to use any of the busted perks or items in the game to do that. The gens themselves are busted fast. So while a killer using the strongest stuff in the game might break even with that, the survivors can just equip their strongest stuff and trump the killer still.
It's a different with killer, too. Survivors are all basically skins, all with the same abilities. Killers are all different with their powers and sometimes movement speed. It's not fair to ask killers to be locked into the strongest 2-3 killers to compete, in a roster of almost 40. It's actually ridiculous that people have supported the game getting to that point. And yes, those are basically the only ones that are viable. Nurse, Blight, and arguably Spirit. Everyone else is just subpar fodder. There have been attempts to make those lesser killers viable, through add-ons and builds, like Pinky Finger Clown, Engineer's Fang Pinhead, hit and run Wraith, head trap kill Pig, oh but look, all nerfed. Best thing you can do with those killers now is get lucky to go against weak enough opponents to win.
I have to strongly disagree here. We've seen unrestricted tournaments where both sides sweat it out with the most busted stuff and it definitely isn't a 'power role' situation. Singularity, Dracula, Artist, Billy and old Chucky did well on these. So clearly the killer isn't helpless, even at equal skill level.
That's actually going to be my main point here: Skill level. There's a reason why you see players like Hens or Scott Jund win against even strong teams with killers like Nemesis, and that's because they're very good. I definitely feel like this perspective of power roles also comes from people perceiving better players than them as having an advantage. There is definite BS in this game, but it is pure cope to blame it all on RNG, otherwise you wouldn't have genuinely good players like Knightlight or Xeno obliterate SWF's with 'no tunnel and camp' challenges.
My experiences don't mirror what you're saying. I main Nemesis and I win most pub matches, and I've had some sweaty Russian teams from time to time. They'll beat me more often than naught, but I'll actually admit they're just better than me. And then I go back to whipping to death most of my matches. And I don't consider myself anything more than 'decent'.
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@Ginnypig said:
All jokes aside, my first game todaay, playing trapper for some Tome 1 achievements, all my gens were done in 2m33.
Survivors have the power role in dbd, not the killer.
So you play one of the worst, if not the worst, killer in the game versus a squad that may or may not be cheating (you don't know) and lost very quickly.
This isn't indicative of anything.
What the heck does "power role" mean? I know extremely jaded players fling that around, but it's never explained.
If the issue is survivors use busted things to win, why don't you? You'll probably win as much if not more.
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Watch people that are actually good at the game, like content creators. They win the majority of their matches, even against teams that are clearly quite good.
The fact that this can be achieved tells me that people just need to get better at the game. If they can't be bothered, then why are they even caring about this in the first place?
You can say the same about survivor, but I can't will my soloq teammates to be better, limiting my agency. That said, survivors could definitely get better too instead of whining. But one side clearly has more agency than the other.
For those that say Comp SWF's win, perhaps comparing them to Comp Killers is a fairer comparison. And, they actually did an unrestricted event like that. It came out at about 50/50. So, surprisingly, at the sweatiest level, it's hardly even sided. Though that was a couple of years ago, it might be different now.
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Sluzzy makes a return and just annihilates everyone. Make it happen.
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@BuffDH said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869805#Comment_3869805
You think I'm joking but I'm not. It's an actual issue that has been going on for years. Killers should be hold in contempt for such actions.
I still am.
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@BuffDH said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869713#Comment_3869713
No idea why you say this is bait when what he said is the truth. Humping survivors on the ground should be illegal and the devs should give them a permanent ban and pursue legal actions for sexual assault.
I've been saying the same thing about killing in a video game. We just need to ban video games. Only way to make sure this VIOLENCE never happens again.
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869207#Comment_3869207
Does this mean humping survivors on the ground is also sexual assault then?
This person is baiting. No point going into this. Just ignore everything they say as it is now much clearer they just want to cause pointless debate.
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@notacamper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869014#Comment_3869014
DictionaryDefinitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
cy·ber·bul·ly·ing/ˌsībərˈbo͝olēiNG/nounthe use of electronic communication tobullya person, typically by sending messages of anintimidatingor threatening nature.
So you mean to tell me that by teabagging which is sending a intimating message to the killer that they suck or any other many of nonverbal implication you may be saying by teabagging isn't cyberbullying?
Oh do please go on about your lack of knowledge on the topic…
Teabagging is cyberbullying.
Okay, you got me, I've been baited. You win. That was one hell of a finish. Holy jeez.
You definitely cyberbullied me with this mindf*ck there.
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It reduces the chances of me getting screwed by RNG. That's the main appeal. That and know what resources were used. Even in a swf, my friends aren't sweaty tryhards and don't announce every pallet they've dropped.
I never used this perk too often but anything that eliminates bad luck is going to be appealing, especially when survivor perks aren't exactly all that crazy barring a few.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869120#Comment_3869120
Do you understand that your definition of “problematic” is massively survivor sided?
And this is why the best anti slugging solution is for survivors to get teleported to a 2v8 cage if they are slugged for 60 seconds. This would actually be a buff for survivors when killers try to slug for the 4k, because eventually the slugged survivor will get teleported to a random part of the map, which means there is a much much higher chance their teammate can save them.
Well, yes, because killers have the power to be problematic, survivors do not. That's the point. The only way they can be problematic if you are just far worse than they are as a team (or you're playing a terrible killer, I will admit that's just horrible). You're not getting flashied regularly if you're as good as them, nor will you get gen rushed. On the other hand, you can be as good or better than the killer and still tunnelled/camped/slugged. It may not happen as quickly, but it will, with little recourse in solo queue. This lack of recourse is why people hate it.
I actually agree with this solution. Perhaps prevent it from happening if a survivor is within 10 meters or something to avoid cucking if they're trying to pick up. I prefer this over basekit unbreakable. And yeah it may be a slight buff to solo queue but also allows for good momentum gaining for the killer if they spread pressure well.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869005#Comment_3869005
You literally used the words "is a decision _____ make as a player for an advantage knowing full well it makes the experience far worse for the other side" to define problematic behavior. So I used your definition.
Are you going to keep changing your definition, until it's super super easy for killers to have problematic behavior, but super super difficult for survivors to have problematic behavior? Do you think that would be fair for both sides of the game?
What does a flashy save do to prevent you from enjoying the game to its fullest?
You can still chase.
You can still hook (next time when you don't let yourself get flashied).
You can still slug.
You can still hump the survivor out of pettiness (which they can't do anything about).
You can still hit them on the hook.
You can complete challenges.
You can still tunnel.
You can still camp.
You can still use your power.
You can still 4k.
This is applicable to everything survivors can do to you, by the way. You're never disabled from doing any of the above.
What can a survivor do if you tunnel, camp or hard slug?
You can't do gens.
You can't get more than a fraction of the bp you could make.
You likely aren't going to rank up in higher grades even if you are far better than the killer.
You can't escape (lose con for individual survivors with how MMR works).
You can't complete challenges.
You literally can't play the game if it's hard slugging.
You can't do ANYTHING about it if a killer is determined or you have a strong team - this is why standard play is disproportionally affected since the latter can be handled by SWF's.
The positive is that you get chase time. Your teammates, however? They'll hardly get any interaction until it's either too late to win or they're next to be slugged/camped.
I guess you can tbag still, but the killer can put a stop to that, lol.
So no, I'm not bouncing around definitions. You're just using the words 'problematic' and 'behaviours' so loosely, it could mean anything anyone does in the game that might annoy. So here, I showed you why people dislike these behaviours a killer can CHOOSE to do versus what behaviours survivors CHOOSE to do.
And this is the root cause of all the complaints. One side, in the end, can't do crap about certain behaviours. The other gets to play the game to fullest even if they get flashied or bodyblocked.
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@SpitefulHateful said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869003#Comment_3869003
Telling people they deserve to be taunted in game for not winning all the time is bad taste, but you're still saying these words.
Where did I say they deserved it?
I'm offering a solution if they seriously can't stand being tbagged at the gate by nobodies. And it's absolutely valid too, since winning more means less of these situations. Am I wrong?
Just because this solution doesn't appeal to you doesn't make it less valid. I grinded like an addict a couple of years back and hardly lost. Surprise surprise, way less tbagging at the gate. Now I suck because I hardly play, but still, the principle is here.
So, no, I never once said people deserve to be messed with. Coming to this conclusion is of slightly bad faith, just as your comparison is of bad taste. I understand where this comes from, but I don't agree with your comparisons and misuse of my words.
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@notacamper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869003#Comment_3869003
Extremely bad taste? Dude, in what world is it any different to mock a kid for his weight or lack of skill in school and to mock a killer by teabagging them at an exit gate when you fourman escape? You're being a bully in both scenarios. And when killers come to complain on these forums about toxic surviors teabagging them what's the general response?
Oh that's right, "Git gud" or "skill issue" their statement of "be sure to tell your kid the same thing when their being bullied at school" applies 100% to this "just a video game" as you call it. An irresponsible or uncaring parent would tell their kid the same thing in more or less the same way. "Get better at standing up for yourself then and you won't be bullied"
So in what world is it any different to tell a killer to "git gud" and to tell a bullied child to "Get better at standing up for yourself" neither solves the problem and just gives both bullying parties an excuse to bully the child or killer even more because no one is doing anything to fix the problem or stop them from bullying.
Uh, the main difference is this: The survivors can't do ANYTHING to you in the real world. A bully at school most certainly can do a variety of terrible things. And, you know what? Fighting back is sound advice to people being stepped on. Most certainly worked for me. So, yes, I will definitely give that advice to someone I care about.
And yes, this is just a video game. If you see it as someone equivalent to real life torment that affects school performance and one's physical wellbeing, you are delusional and need to stop playing the game for a little bit.
Yes, I stand by the fact that if you suck less at a video game, you'll be taunted less. I find it difficult to call tbagging at the exit gate 'bullying'. The only thing in this game I'd ever call 'bullying' would be much more skilled players abusing the inexperience of a lesser skilled killer. And even then, I'll still say it's of bad taste comparing it to something that had dire consequences in the real world.
There's no fixing people being petty children online. Lest you want to moderate EVERYTHING. Best thing you can do is see them for the infantile nothings they are. Or beat them.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868618#Comment_3868618
Making a flashlight save is a decision survivors make as a player for an advantage knowing full well it makes the experience far worse for the other side.
A decision to use an item for its intended purpose?
Then it is problematic for the killer to use their power to down people, since that's a gateway to potential slugging and tunnelling.
Given this is your response to the effort I've put into mine, I'll take it as a concession that you do not have anything else of substance to bring other than "other side annoys me so it is problematic" and comparing it to things the other side is effectively helpless toward in standard (read: solo queue) play.
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@SpitefulHateful said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868629#Comment_3868629
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868629#Comment_3868629
Remember to give the same advice to your child when they're bullied at school.
It is of extremely bad taste to compare being bullied in person with nothing you can really do about it to being taunted in a video game by people that you don't know and should have zero impact on your life.
Get over yourself, it's in no way of the same magnitude.
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@Vuk said:
Seriously, this is annoying…
I dont waste my time going to the gates to do nothing besides watching teabags, the devs must do something about it.
Survs complain about killers letting them to die on the floor but killers suffer the same thing EVERY SINGLE MATCH they dont kill at least 3.
A few solutions could be ONE of those:
1 - Alucard's shield baseline for all killers. (kinda fun for everyone)
2 - If a surv get hit inside the gate area the exit closes for that surv for 5s. (like the Houndmaster).
3 - Put an option to end the game for the killer to use, just like they can open the gates themselves.You have control over both situations.
You can push them out if they want to taunt you.
You decide when to hook them if they're slugged.
I know it's annoying to get taunted, but then again, why do you care that some nobody losers are being twerps? Don't join their ranks, be better than these numbskulls. Kicking them out shouldn't take long at all.
If it's humiliation you dread, then all I can say is: Get better.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867892#Comment_3867892
Considering that "problematic killer behavior" is pretty much absolutely every strategy killers could do, "problematic survivor behavior" should be pretty much be every strategy survivors can do.
This means that flashlight saves, flashbang saves, pallet saves, bodyblocking, hook sabotages, and using voice comms specifically for extra game advantages, would all fall under "problematic survivor behavior". Also, if we are holding survivors to the same standards as killers, genrushing would have a definition that is easily achieved by survivors in almost any game.
None of what you state is a behaviour, they're the intended purposes of items and hazards in the game.
Tunnelling, camping and hard-slugging (because I think slugging is more nuanced, I think it is a good tool for mementum) are decisions you actively make as a player for an advantage knowing full well it makes the experience far worse for the other side.
These strategies are actively being addressed as seen with various anti-tunnel perks, basekit BT, the camping meter and a failed basekit unbreakable which communicated a clear intent to limit slugging.
What is genrush anyway? I'll be real with you, unless it's a toolbox monster team, if you're getting rushed with a killer that isn't garbage, you were mismatched in terms of skill. Yeah, I'll say it plainly, it's a skill issue most people have here.
You could argue that it is also a skill issue on the survivor's part, but what can a survivor do while being tunnelled? They can outplay the killer for half an hour, but they'll still get tunnelled. They can't do anything else in the game which, to some, is dreadfully boring. Same for camping, what does the hooked survivor's skill have to do here? And slugging, same thing. Player choice is taken away completely, relying on teammates - which is fair, but far too easily exploited in solo queue. Hell, even teams still get smashed as shown when actually good players go on streaks.
So, no, getting flashied because you can't be arsed to pay attention isn't the same as choosing to keep everyone on the floor for four minutes.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867896#Comment_3867896
Because you can literally just go to youtube and type in "making killers dc" and see the videos.
Okay, most of them are not toxic or mean spirited and end up being just mismatches in skill.
I typed the same for making survivors dc and got quite a few videos too. Same idea, most were not mean spirited.
The truly virulent ones from both sides are from jaded literally who's with a few hundred views. Hardly worthy of 'most'.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867351#Comment_3867351
Its literally a forum rule, and you aren't going to bait me into breaking it.
Why bring up this inflammatory remark about one side when evidence of it is against the rules?
The answer: So you can accuse others of baiting you when they ask for you to back up your nonsense.
All you've done is rag on the side you clearly don't like without any evidence because you cannot provide any. You're actively hurting any semblance of a cause you may stand for.
Also, it's baseless.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867355#Comment_3867355
The double standard is that “problematic killer behavior” could be done by any killer, in any game….. but “problematic survivor behavior” requires very hyper-specific requirements like quad syringes.
But what survivor behaviour is 'problematic' other than sitting on gens? There isn't a way that's particularly unfun for the killer unless they bring items to cheese this. I don't think survivors have the ability to make the game unfun for the killer unless there is a massive mismatch in skill or some sort of exploit. There isn't really an equivalent to tunnelling and camping, which is why it feels like a double standard.
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Good, it was annoying to deal with. Bless.
Now to see if it actually works…
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@H2H said:
The double standard is so blatant. Killers have an OBLIGATION to play inefficiently and bad to ensure that survivors have a fun time (which is the sole responsibility of killers for some reason), but survivors have no such obligation the other way. Tunneling is UNFAIR and TOXIC and OVERPOWERED but survivors genrushing to leave in four minutes is just them doing their objective.
Ridiculous.
Nowhere in the OP does "Unfair" "Toxic" or "Overpowered" come up.
The equivalent of this is survivors bringing busted items and there's frequent complaining of that too, often with screenshots of quad-syringe groups and toolbox monsters.
There isn't a double standard, people cry no matter the side when they perceive there to be an injustice or that actively hinders their enjoyment. Whether rational or not.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867307#Comment_3867307
I can't name because that would be naming and shaming, but its pretty easy to know which ones.
Convenient. Given I don't know any of them and follow most of the popular content creators for both sides, I'm going to say no, it isn't easy to know which ones. And given we can't give examples, this is all meaningless and I could just say the same thing about killer content creators without having to present any modicum of proof.
But I think reasonable people know "most" don't do this so this is moot anyway.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867003#Comment_3867003
The survivors certainly don't. Most of them use it to make "content" of them bullying killers and laughing when they make them DC.
Most? Who and where? If it's them outplaying bad players, it's no different than the killer content creators posting incessant 'gimmick build destroys survivor team' videos. I hardly ever see mean spirited videos from either side.
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Tunnelers are just going to restrict the only perks that meaningfully get in their way. There are more than four regression perks but I'd argue survivors can hit the best ones and make it suck for the killer too. This will not have the effect you think, nothing will be shaken up and people will hate the game even more. The reason people stick to the meta is because the game feels barely playable without these meta perks. Well, for the most part.
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Lots of streamers get sniped. He may get sniped more, but he chose to isolate himself from most of the community and be generally pretty negative about the game. That sort of content creator is just easy amusement for trolls and petty nerds, especially when said content creator isn't nearly as good as they think they are (not saying he's bad, but he isn't excellent).
It just sounds like he got beaten within the parameters of the game and his own challenge with the hardest kind of opponent he could get. He also chose to stream and expose himself to risks without precautions. This is all on him and to be expected.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838388#Comment_3838388
Why defend the "busted stuff"? Typically obvious busted stuff gets hammered. Iri head being able to get used with infantry belt for example was deemed busted, so it was changed to not be able to be used together. Why if you recognize it's busted are you arguing that its acceptable for THIS kind of stacking? I'm not saying the perks should be nerfed, just that there should be a limit to being used together similar to iri head and infantry belt.
As for Tru3... I don't like the guy either. His presence in the corner of the screen doesn't change the fact that these speeds are SO severe that it can be mistaken for hacking. If someone ELSE was in the corner of the screen, would your thoughts be different that MAYBE having builds that double repair speed is in no way healthy and MAYBE there should be limits to how much you can stack repair speed?
This isn't a case of a content creator complaining that the map is survivor sided and that's why he didn't get downs(Unlike other content he posts) . This is a video that you could mute and come up to your own conclusion that those speeds were nuts. At no point did any survivor loop ANYTHING. They won SHEERLY off time efficiency.
Where am I defending anything? Where did I say things were acceptable? You might argue I implied it, but I did not. This is just how DBD is right now, there are ways to abuse the busted stuff.
They did loop, his silly gimmick build got him a down in the main building where he shouldn't have chased, especially with his comment accurately remarking on how the gen there gets done almost all the time.
The merit of the video isn't questioned. What I am questioning is why he frequently posts things like this but doesn't once make a remark when he's the one doing the equivalent of this to the other side. Again, it's not like he played excellently - chasing where he announced he'd lose a gen is just trying to fail.
If you're arguing that busted crap like this is not fine, I don't think anyone will disagree with you. People complain about this on both sides. But they remain unchanged, so we for now we live with it. Luckily this is extremely rare.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838338#Comment_3838338
I don't know what "trustworthiness" has to do with this. Do you suspect this WASNT a real match but rather paid actors? I'd understand disagreeing with someone's opinions but even if you tune him out... Can you really watch this video and say "Yeah, THATS completely acceptable". This team blew through the gens so fast that things like resource management wasn't even involved. Did any pallets even get tossed? There wasn't any time for any outplaying or any interaction. They didn't win from being good in chases or anything.
It being "rare" is just because teams DECIDE not to do this. It wasn't a case of taking advantage of an opponents misplay or something. It just feels like the message of "if we WANT to win, there's nothing you can do about itso enjoy the games where we decide to go easy on you". They picked one of the most killersided maps to demonstrate this.
I don't understand why you are going on a tirade about their performance resulting from an assumption you're making. I was not totally clear on what I said, so I will explain. I do not trust this content creator to have good intentions for the game and I believe he is a seedy individual that wants to stack as many advantages as possible for the side he plays the most. In my opinion, he is that sort of player. Which leads me to always question his motivation for posting videos like these. It doesn't help that he wins most of his other games with sellout meme builds anyway.
In your second paragraph, it sounds like the gameplay loop of DBD. Whether it is killer or survivor, if you decide to sweat and bring busted stuff, you're likely to win. They have tournaments where they don't have any restrictions and killers still win about as much as they would with restrictions, so this definitely isn't a "sided" issue.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838203#Comment_3838203
So... if this same exact game was shown but it was a different content creator in the corner, would your thoughts be different?
I'd have the same opinion, because showing an extreme example that hardly ever happens is not really proving anything.
That said, to be fully honest, I'd be more sceptical of this content creator than most others because of what I've said. I just don't think he's trustworthy, even if his takes aren't actually wrong a lot of the time.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837318#Comment_3837318
They hate him because guy tends to speak the unpleasant truth.
The fact that survivor-favored posts get 2 or 3 times more upvotes than killer-favored ones should be a good enough indicator how biased this forum is. It's also the reason why developers shouldn't rely on people feedback when opinions that benefit one certain side often get voiced much louder than the other.
The man says some harsh truths, that is true. He is also a champion of turning a blind eye toward other truths that would weaken 'his side.'
Biggest example of this is when Twins got a rework. Victor was blatantly OP as the player demonstrated by downing a survivor from healthy in seven seconds. Yet he made no remark on how astronomically busted that is and instead ranted the whole video on how Charlotte having to walk 10 seconds to pick up a survivor was the real problem.
People dislike the ego, but I personally dislike the dishonesty the most, and there are other mental gymnastics he makes (such as defending old Compound 21 that essentially gave you massive and lingering aura reading while rushing) to justify leaving broken things for his side. He hides it better than the ego, though.
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Let's just call this for what it is: You want to win even more than you already are, which is very likely to be the majority of your games. This isn't about balance or one side being OP. The times the SWF's have mopped the floor with you they likely also played better than you (along with probably some other advantages, but both sides can bring OP stuff).
Getting sick of people wanting to ruin this game because they grow pissy over the occasional bad losses.
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@GaunterODimmDBD said:
I thought it was pretty fun to outplay as a Survivor like it's one of my favorite back and forth or is expecting Survivor to have killer knowledge too hard nowadays?. The only reason it was busted is because of speed add ons which makes getting tinkered down slowly anyway.
Because everyone used speed.
I can play this sassy game too: Is expecting Blights to use their powers as intended too hard nowadays?
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Said above but I saw the other thread that was the same for survivors.
In the case of killers, it's hard for many of them to accept they have a skill issue because they're fed a pretty outrageous kill rate when they start the game. When survivors don't know how to survive, the killer wins even if they're terrible.
The problem is when they start facing stronger or same skill level survivors, they suddenly feel oppressed. It's not their fault, how could it be? They were winning and suddenly they're robbed.
I honestly felt that way back then. Blamed SWF and all that junk.
That said there's BS in this game that robs you of your agency. Far less than some people say, especially with how maps have changed recently. The majority of the time, losing as killer is your own fault.
So, yes killers need to improve. So do survivors, of course. Especially attitude-wise. One side thinks they're better than they are, the other gives up for no reason.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709097#Comment_3709097
If the unknown ever hits two survivors at the same time they had to be either bots or intentionally be throwing the game. While I agree huntress is extremely overrated by dbds playerbase, unknown is also very overated, the only aspect that people do undertand is strong with him its his tp. But his proyectile is not as good as people paint it to be. You have to hit a survivor 2 time for it to deal dmg and getting rid of it is incredibly easy if you are somewhat decent at survivor.
The issue with unknown is the same as legion, healing against legion most of the times is just a timeloss, and even if you remain injured they are an m1 killer so you are at no risk whatsoever, however people heal all the time agai t legion and then get surprised they 4kd. Removing weakened is so easy it is a given against good players the unknown has only one opportunity to shoot after weakening survivors before they cure themselves. Somehow people still manage to let you shoot like 3 times, like are these people not AI? I genuinly am curious what are this people doing in chases? Like looking behind is a BASIC thing to do, what on earth are they doing?
You'll hit two people at hooks, now it won't always translate into damage, you've still HIT two people. You can also get easy hits like this with discordance, although admittedly it won't work forever or if they split up. But it's not nearly as rare as you're portraying, nor does high skill dictate whether it happens or not when unhooking.
The way to play Unknown is to not commit immediately after weakening someone. Ideally you encounter them again later, fully weakened, and two tap them. This works quite often in my experience, and if the survivor went out of their way to find me and stare at me, at least they've wasted their time.
That said, I've seen Xeno obliterate fellow comp players in 1 v 1's with this killer without having to do what I've suggested above. Now yes not everyone is his level, but I think it's fair to take high level players as a basis. You have to remember he can:
-Run at 115%
-Bait his projectile by tapping the power without punishment.
-Has addons that apply weakened for free
-And you've mentioned his powerful teleport which is, I agree, probably his strongest asset
This guy is better than Huntress, but also much more difficult to play. Although maybe he is overrated, I feel like there isn't still a solid consensus on his real power level despite the showcases.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Singularity - who? They pretty much don't exist. Singu is decent killer but you need to tryhard him to play him ans Survivors counterplay on their side is very simple compare to the killer. So this one is out of the picture.
Xeno - Strong but Huntress is way better. You don't play much different againts him than a Nemesis and I hope you don't think Nemesis is oppresive I hope. You can slow him down and force him out his power with well placed turrets. So I wouldn't agree Xeno is too strong at all so this one is also out of the picture.
Chucky - Without power he is useless. He has good chase power but if you manage to dodge him (there are some ways) or make him waste his power then he is kinda useless. I would agree he is strong but not overpowered but okay I will give you 1 point here.
Unknown - Worse Huntress. You can juke his grenades. You can disable his tp. Don't hug walls and he can't hit you behind them. You can predic where he will prob shot. He is solid but worse than Huntress for sure and more difficult than her. So this one is also out of picture.
So if I am being kind, 1 out of 4 killers are "oppresive". Wow, crazy I know.
Yeah I'm gonna hard disagree on Xeno being weaker than Huntress. The only thing he doesn't have over her is cross-map hit potential, and even then that won't happen often with anyone paying attention.
Chucky can completely negate any gameplay the survivor does with scamper, while also being strong due to his size (and thus hard to react to). There's a reason he's A+. OVERALL he isn't OP but his design reeks of powercreep, where what's being crept are pallets vs. killer interactions.
Unknown is worse huntress? Lolwut. The killer is 115%, can hit multiple survivors at once and has the fastest teleport in the game.
You're overrating Huntress hard when she's arguably the weakest ranged killer in the game right now. At least when you've facing survivors of your skill level. Luckily, it doesn't seem to be the case for most of us.
OP has a point though, new killers are definitely strong and not intuitive to counter at all. That said, I wouldn't say they're overpowered.
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Recalling after 10 seconds of latching makes the option to crush Victor pointless and makes a power that is nigh impossible to juke against a competent player more readily available is very questionable. I welcome the removal of awful cooldowns, less so Victor being able to rapid fire damage with no real downside.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704354#Comment_3704354
So you have to bring god awful perks (for the most part) or perks with little use outside of stopping something that is impossible to counter normally?
Yes, and I don't know why is this such a big deal. If killers want to counter pallet saves, flashlight saves or exhaustion perks, they could use what they have now. This perks were made specifically to counter Exhaustion or Flashlight saves.
-Infectious Fright: A decent perk on some killers, but pointless when survivors have BGP.
Are you sure about that? Basic killers have 32m terror radius, downs are unpredictable and even if someone wants to do save, they would go nearby. BGP isn't insta-teleport perk and from what I've played with it, if you are outside terror radius on pickup, there's very little chance to do save.
-Mindbreaker: The only decent choice here. But then again they can also just walk for 5 seconds. Only useful to catch them when they're doing a gen, barely useful in this scenario.
No, if they use exhaustion - and it's easy to use BGP when you don't want it to or don't use this perk value - they would have to walk around on map (aren't doing objective, are slower - easier to hunt down) or be perma-exhausted on gen.
You MUST run at least one of these perks to not have to suffer something you CANNOT counter lest you simply slug the whole team. This is a horrible take and reinforces the incredibly unhealthy nature of the game's current state. I should not have to run specific perks to even be able to fulfil my objective.
Yeah, PR + Pop + Grim is terrible meta, but I could counter it with… ah, yes, nothing.
You shouldn't have basekit counter to everything that other side brings to the game, if something bothers you (exhaustion perks, healing, boons, gen speed perks, survivors doing gens together, sabo squads), you should just equip perk that counters this playstyle.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BRQGWYR7RLYX/image.png
BGP + Flashbang has terrible pickrates, and even if they are picked together, they have very bad escape rate.
Honestly, I don't know what is this fuss about, I think that some killers just got to top MMR and now they:
- Don't want to use anything to counter some SWF playstyles in High MMR
- Demand nerfs for everyone, because survivor once again have some variety in perk builds and don't simply run WoO/Lithe/Adren/DS
Yes, and I don't know why is this such a big deal. If killers want to counter pallet saves, flashlight saves or exhaustion perks, they could use what they have now. This perks were made specifically to counter Exhaustion or Flashlight saves.
At the detriment of everything else. Prepare for an eventuality that is impossible to counter without perks and you get crushed in every other scenario (for the most part).
Another use said this but both infectious and mind breaker do not matter to people with the BGP playstyle. Double that for infectious if they decide to run calm spirit just to also counter ultimate weapon (horrible perk but still, if they're determined …)
Here's a very simple set of counters to PR + Pop + Grim:
- Get better at looping. The longer you last, the less chance you have for the killer to interrupt gens.
- Toolboxes. Sure, an item that you'll need to bring but incredibly strong with the right addons.
- Repressed alliance. Hey, you proposed Blood Echo, let me propose this niche and barely useful perk too.
- You just sit longer on a gen?
Notice how my very first option depended entirely on the player's ability and skill? Yeah, you won't find that with the current BGP issue.
To say that combo has no counter is as absurd as saying there's no counter to a killer chasing you off a gen. The killer, through hooking, earned a bonus to extend the game. The counter is to either be faster than the killer's ability to down or outlast the killer in chase.
Versus - I have a survivor that purposefully died under a pallet or in the open and their friend is poised to save them with their 200% movement speed. Unlike the above, you CANNOT do anything about this unless you equip a specific build or are an obscenely strong killer.
There'd be more perk variety if most weren't total garbage made only for youtube content or to lose.
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@vBlossom_ said:
He could have equipped:
- Lightborn to entire disable this meta if this is the issue
- Some addond that inflicts exhaustion or show survivor auras - Freddy unfortunately don't have one, but there are killers that have those addons.
- Some perk that reveals survivors - Infectious Fright would be good in this case.
- Fire up to mess up with timings on picking up survivors
- Exhaustion - inflicting perks, for example:
- Blood Echo
- Genetic Limits
- Mindbreaker - this one even gives Blindness and it's kinda used
- Septic Touch
Yet he decided he didn't want to and did video in which he demanded nerfs.
If I don't like my aura revealed, I'd bring Distortion - counter killer perks.
Killers could also do the same if Flashlights/Flashbangs/Exhaustion Perks are the issue, to this day killers have 118 perks and there are really some other perks than Pop/PR/Lethal/NTH :)"You must run the following to not have an awful time against things that aren't counterable as they stand."
So you have to bring god awful perks (for the most part) or perks with little use outside of stopping something that is impossible to counter normally?
You cannot compare this to distortion where your aura is revealed but you can still outplay the killer with looping and good game knowledge. Or Calm Spirit to counter Ultimate Weapon, as you could also loop and play (the issue was it did its job far too well for stronger killers with no good way to mitigate it).
Besides, these perks are bad for the following reasons:
-Lightborn: I've never needed this until BGP and Flashbangs caused this mess. This is a complete waste of a perk slot and a death sentence if I'm matched people of my skill level.
-Infectious Fright: A decent perk on some killers, but pointless when survivors have BGP. You won't catch them as they can stay far away and pre-run if you go after them. Sure, you can slug, but do you really want to encourage this sort of gameplay?
-Fire Up: Yeah unless all the gens are done, the changes in blinding timings are so generous it almost never matters. Even then, god awful perk just as bad as lightborn.
-Blood Echo: Beyond being mediocre, you actually have to HOOK people AND injure the saviours. The former isn't possible if you're getting flashbanged with BGP.
-Genetic Limit: Requires the survivors to do something out of your control first. Terrible perk.
-Mindbreaker: The only decent choice here. But then again they can also just walk for 5 seconds. Only useful to catch them when they're doing a gen, barely useful in this scenario.
-Septic Touch: Same as Genetic Limits.
Your suggestion that killers need to vary their builds goes against your whole thesis here: You MUST run at least one of these perks to not have to suffer something you CANNOT counter lest you simply slug the whole team. This is a horrible take and reinforces the incredibly unhealthy nature of the game's current state. I should not have to run specific perks to even be able to fulfil my objective.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702486#Comment_3702486
Your going to have to specific what's rare, the non tunneling wesker or survivors harassing the killer...
More to the serious point, it may not be a problem for you or us, but we're betting newer killers already struggling will have so much fun. Bully squads would also love this. Basically it's give one side or the other to flip off the other side.
As we said, for us we feel survivors should be under pressure to remove infection asap. If infection doesn't come with some risk then what is the point? There's effectively nil threat as the survivor can take their sweet time.
If you want another example: an unhook on an infected happens after the gens get done. Wesker only sees the unhooked b lining to the door as the rescuer is a coward. Infection won't tick up cause no conspicuous actions and the survivor can loop him till the doors open. Nothing to hinder (ha) him in the looping despite being infected. Where's the point of that survivor being infected since they only need to run to the door? There's no real risk to being infected if it requires conspicuous actions.
Being honest here, we don't care about the whole flashbang bgp rave, the point was more that survivors are trying to harass killers more atm.
Ohh so sadly true. Though everyone should always look for what the point is and cause.
The specific scenario of the unhooked harassing the killer is pretty rare and often leads to them being tunnelled out regardless. Infection doesn't matter here.
The situation you're describing here is bizarre. Wesker is a strong enough killer to be able to catch survivors trying to stall him before they can leave. The hindered just turns a situation where the survivor has a chance to a situation where the survivor has none.
You're bringing up unfun situations to the killer caused by survivors ignoring infection but you're foregoing the unfun situations for the survivors caused by the killer because of the infection. One simply annoys a killer, the other makes the other player's skill expression non-existent. IMO the latter is far worse, and the former is only a problem when stuff like Background player exists, which I want changed ASAP.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701228#Comment_3701228
We want the survivor to have risk when harassing the killer. If their infection ticks up regularly, then they become easier food because they tried harassing the killer instead of cleaning. Say a recent unhooked is infected and has a flashlight. Adding on, this particular wesker went out of their way to not tunnel. Another survivor heals them then the infected goes off to try to blind and in general be a pain. The infected is healthy and at no risk of becoming fully infected because they didn't perform any conspicuous actions. They're free to harass wesker as much as they want (with the apparent prevalence of background player and flashbangs, it appears killers are being harassed quite Abit already)
As to the second part, that's still more of an issue to tunneling in general to us. And people cry over everything. Its really depressingly common.
What you are describing is incredibly rare, at the very least rarer than seedy Weskers tunnelling thanks to their infection. As for those that harass the killer without doing a conspicuous action, then they're not doing gens. How is that a problem?
Background player with Flashbang is a problematic combo, I agree, but beyond that countering flashlights is very easy.
The game has a lot of issues, so people get annoyed often. It's normal to complain. New players also have a pretty mediocre experience so they'll voice them too. I suppose 'crying' is a bit demeaning. More often than naught people have a point when they complain.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700731#Comment_3700731
Yet if it did pause survivors can still follow around with flashlights and such without punishment. As an aside, you can still loop while hindered (we admit it's extremely difficult but if we managed it...). That also falls more into an issue of tunneling (atleast to us)
I don't understand how survivors following the killer is some sort of counterbalance to the infection pausing. They can do that at any time, infected or not. There is literally 0 counterplay to being tunnelled while infected other than hoping the Wesker is terrible. 8% hindered is terrible, and people excessively cried (rightfully for the most part) over 3% haste.
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@Rulebreaker said:
1: Because removing the infection needs to actually be a major priority to the survivors.
2: Because like a hook it tells him where 2 survivors are currently and theyre probably doing something you dont want them to.
3: Because unlike hooks he doesn't get any benefits from perks that need hooks such as Pop as a trade off.
Removing the infection is impossible if you're immediately chased and tunnelled. The only issue here is that Wesker is guaranteed a hinder in less than a minute, making tunnelling absurdly easy with little the survivor can actually do about it. It doesn't matter how much of a priority it is, you cannot do it when chased.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
His main power is M2 shots. That means his perk diversity is bit small.
So I just run standart stuff because what else would I run unless you run meme builds.
Perks are pretty stale, 2x for M2 power killers.
Against more aware survivors, his M2 is more useful as a zoning tool when they have distance on you. Even in loops, you can force a no-win situation where half the time you'll M1. That said it's generally better to M2 if you can land it, yes.
Current build I'm trying is Unforeseen, Pop, Nowhere to hide and BBQ.
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I'll avoid tunnelling them but I'll try not to let them escape. My goal with babies is to make sure they get a game, but they shouldn't win it. There's nothing worse than newbies being constantly tunnelled because they're the weak links and they end up never learning, or simply have no fun doing so.