Seiko300
Seiko300
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@Adeloo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2348316#Comment_2348316
it's in the PTB that is happening right now :D
but here is a video from The King : https://youtu.be/_WAPyhdxBJo?t=394 that show it :D
My God...
Although TBH, even though it's a serious improvement, it still doesn't look like Quentin from the film lmao
I guess they didn't want to work with Kyle Gallner to get his likeness even though he straight up offered on twitter and they responded. (Mat did anyway).
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At first I was thinking "the opium den obviously, what other map would there even be?"
But after reading: "The Cankerous Forest" I was immediately enthralled and I changed sides. I get that the Red Forest maps have a bad reputation for being far too big and are some of the worst maps in that regard- but it just sounds way too cool not to vote for.
Although probably wouldn't happen since it disrupts the whole "seasonal" element of the blight in the lore so :/
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@Adeloo said:
Before the rework : Leon/Félix
After the rework : Jake/Quentin but Quentin got such a glowup he deserves the crown.
Wait, Quentin got the face rework? When??
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@Marc_go_solo said:
I've not played the remake, but did play the PC title when it came out, and I'm not 100% sure that the layout of both maps is identical. Either because it's been some time since I've played it, or they've made some changes, I'm not fully recognising everything.
I can say with full confidence after playing the game very recently that it is very much nearly identical if not entirely identical. After finishing the game myself and then getting my chance to actually be on the map myself I was absolutely blown away.
A few slight differences here and there, mainly in the areas around the exit gates cause you don't really spend that much time outside the RCPD in the game itself (aside from say the area right next to the burning helicopter and the stairs that go down) so obviously that was an invented element for the purposes of the map, but it still looks very true to the setting even if it wasn't originally there.
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RE went on sale over the summer on steam and this was likely a part of their marketing plan and I gotta say it worked on me. Not only are licensing agreements lucrative for Dead By Daylight and shift the fanbase / playerbase from X, Y, or Z, encouraging them to try Dead By Daylight- but also encourages Dead By Daylight players to pay attention to certain licenses outside the game and maybe support / affiliate with them.
I'm not going to lie- I bought Resident Evil 2 Remake & Resident Evil 3 Remake over the summer sale because the license showed up in Dead By Daylight. I've already sunk around 10 hrs on my first playthrough as Leon and now I'm starting over and playing through as Claire. I'll probably play again as both of them because it looks like there's a new game+ feature, which apparently changes the ending as well so I'll end up playing it a total of 4 times.
This is probably true for many other Dead By Daylight players as well who became interested or more interested in RE because of the chapter. Interested enough that they'd be willing to buy at least one title if not more. Or at the very least watch gameplay on Youtube or something, so search queries for Resident Evil probably spiked on google and related platforms.
And I'll also be honest I'm having a blast. Resident Evil 2 is definitely a quality game and I had a lot of fun playing through it on my first run- Leon is now an infinitely more interesting character to me now that I've experienced his story and I'm looking forward to finishing my playthrough as Claire, and I'm especially looking forward to Resident Evil 3 where I'll actually get to face Nemesis in his "natural habitat" so to speak. Also: Anybody who says or said Resident Evil that Resident Evil isn't true horror just flat out lied- I definitely freaked the ######### out my fair share during my first playthrough of RE2, and that tension is still there even in my second, the only difference is I know what I'm doing now.
The funny part is, I was able to finish the entirety of my first run of RE2 before I even played on Raccoon City a single time in Dead By Daylight- because they had disabled the map literally on release. Needless to say after spending that much time in the actual Raccoon City Police Department from RE2, I understand the map a LOT better than I would have otherwise just going in raw.
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It's however many I can get before the event ends- no goal, just grab as many as you can before the timer runs out.
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@Vulgun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2337030#Comment_2337030
My reason for Stefano w/Obscura over The Keeper is because of the fact that aside from The Keeper's ability to warp across areas by dying or killing itself and re-emerging in another safe head thing (which is already derivative of Hag and Nightmare), he has nothing else going for him.
Stefano and Obscura, meanwhile, would be more focused on Stefano's time pocket-based abilities and Obscura's progression-denial ability as a summonable partner to Stefano. While The Keeper is the most popular pick, he's also one of the least imaginative ones of the bunch (being more imaginative than Sadist and Laura, but less so than Ruvik, Theodore and definitely Stefano).
While I respect the opinion, I kind of think about it the same way I think about Smash Ultimate, there are plenty of characters that now exist that people had doubts about whether or not they would work. I distinctly remember there was a semi-strong counter-movement of people who for some reason couldn't possibly fathom Ghostface in Dead By Daylight because "he's just a human!! What power would he even have?! He'd probably suck." and now he's unironically the best stealth killer out of them all in the roster. Similarly, I've also heard "What power would Leatherface have?? Hillbilly already has a chainsaw!!" in the past, and hell, even I had my doubts about a potential Nemesis pick because as far as I was aware he mostly used actual firearms as weapons and obviously we don't have guns in DBD so I was reasonably sure Nemesis wasn't going to be the RE representative.
The analogy with Smash Ultimate goes because Sakurai and the development team for that game have created absolutely superb movesets for some of the most mild characters that you wouldn't think would fit in a fighting game. Villager has never fought anything in Animal Crossing, it's just not that kind of game. Piranha Plant is literally an immobile plant that serves mostly as a low level base AI enemy character, and hell Captain Falcon has never actually stepped outside of his car in any of his racing games from F-Zero. Yet still they managed to create playable characters with movesets that are not only efficiently playable and decent in both casual and competitive play, but also movesets that are true to the characters themselves, their original source material, and the franchises that they come from.
Likewise, Dead By Daylight- as far as licensed characters go, have done their due diligence in creating characters that are true to form and faithful to the original source material. Although balance has always been a primary concern of the community in all the years DBD has existed, I think the fact these licensed characters have powers that fit is a good enough reference point for the frame of this particular conversation. It'd be very speculative and far too preemptive to discuss balance for a thing that isn't released yet.
My overall point being that there's no shortage of ideas at the devs disposal, either from their own team or from the community, to create a fitting kit for nearly any character, licensed or otherwise.
As for Stefano and the Obscura- the only thing I'll say about that is the Obscura suffers from the same issues as most of the radically imaginative ideas do- the obscura is a non-human / non-humanoid- and the devs wouldn't be able to re-use the same skeletal rig (which they often do for almost every single character) for animations. They'd have to create an entirely unique and separate rig for the one character that they likely wouldn't be able to repurpose for any other future content and it's apparently a sinkhole in terms of finances.
It's kind of a sucky reason to say no considering how successful the game is now 5 years later, but it's one that's held true for 5 years and this is the reason why we don't really see non-human / non-humanoid characters in DBD. It's the reason why we never got a spider-killer that the community requested all the way back in 2016 and since then. The demogorgon is the furthest they've gone but it's still got two arms and two legs and it's bipedal so it seemed to have been doable. The Obscura on the other hand has some really out-there characteristics with it's long camera neck, three legs, and contorted arms / other limbs which allowed it to crawl all over the place.
While it might be more unique- that uniqueness comes at a cost that we've never (or at least extremely rarely and in limited cases) seen the developers be willing to make.
EDIT: (And Yes. I am aware of the irony this presents considering I voted for The Thing which is just as out there as The Obscura- but the difference is I'm really hoping / banking on The Thing's well known popularity and significant contribution to the history of horror in film and its use of practical effects in film that the devs make an exception for The Thing.)
So The Keeper still seems to me like the best choice, though your mileage may vary.
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Throwing free stuff at the community is a real easy way to get most people to shut up and for other white knights to criticize the people that don't like the event saying "wow you don't appreciate free stuff how entitled are you".
The fact is it's lazy. Giving free things to the community isn't what I call an event it's just called incentive- people will get back on Dead By Daylight if the devs promise them free in-game currency and this boosts player numbers and likely an increase in sales for cosmetics, chapters, and everything else.
An EVENT is supposed to actually significantly change the gameplay of the game itself for a temporary period of time such that normal gameplay is put on hold for a brief period during the year. An event provides a window of time where people are allowed to take the game less seriously than normal and to just have fun with a reward system that provides a goal to work toward and earn something for playing during that time.
However, again, what they did was lazy. They reused nearly everything from last year's anniversary, even the overall banner theme and advertising for the 5th anniversary uses the same black and gold thematic from the previous year- which looks fantastic, but using it two years in a row all of a sudden makes it less unique and less important in the grand scheme of the history of DBD. The actual gameplay change is not impactful at all since players don't have to actually be proactive, they simply need to be in the right place at the right time, and very little about the overall pace of the game is changed (although survivors have to do a bit more work since they need to survive. The "reward" itself is the same dumbass crown which might have some interesting lore attached to it being a "primitive and crude representation of the entity" and all but beyond that it's not a worthy reward to actually sink your time into. Aesthetically the crowns look completely out of place and the floating halo that bobs above a survivor's head frankly just looks more ridiculous than anything else. Of all the cosmetics that have ever been created for events, which has resulted in some truly stunning and amazing cosmetics by the way (think of the Blight cosmetics for both killers AND survivors), these anniversary crowns are undoubtedly the worst.
Which is truly unfortunate because one of the devs themselves during the anniversary stream said that they were going to put less emphasis and resources on / toward most of the events so that they could allocate them specifically for two: Halloween and the Anniversary. (Personally I would have said Halloween and the Winter Solstice [or even the Lunar New Year] because historically the anniversary events themselves as they take place in-game have always been more or less lackluster and trying to make the anniversary "bigger" and more grand really is just a show-off move which strokes their own ego but okay). So remind yourself that THIS event- the one that's going on RIGHT NOW for the 5th anniversary, is what they saved and waited for and were so excited to release. Truly pathetic.
I normally don't agree with Space Coconut and frankly just listening to his voice alone rubs me the wrong way because of how naturally snarky and sarcastic it sounds in every single ######### video, but he hits it right on the head with this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-cb0a1dTv8 -
Until Dawn was good, but it wasn't that good and I get the sense that people overhype it too often and that's what ruins it for me.
Imo it'd be a bland option as far as licenses go- and it very much plays off the stereotypical "Teens go on vacation in an isolated area and then get hunted down by local serial killer" and what-not. It stays true to form and doesn't deviate much from the formula as far as horror goes, it also plays off the recognizability of the actors who voice the characters rather than the characters themselves though most of them aren't unlikeable.
Until Dawn is very much "eh" for me and doesn't carry as much weight as the other options.
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Here's my question:
Why are the Evil Within killer options the artist and the obscura? Why not The Keeper?? Personal opinion aside it seems to me that he's the most popularly requested killer pick from the franchise, and seems to fit the tone and theme of Dead By Daylight the best.
The Keeper was actually what got me interested in The Evil Within games and provoked a bunch of research into it.
Evil Within aside I'd really like more of an effort to be made to make The Thing a viable killer candidate beyond its shapeshifting ability, which would in all likelihood function as a secondary power that gives stealth. A chapter about The Thing would be absolutely magnificent.
Honorable mention is an original water/nautical-themed chapter, it's my most wanted original concept (although a firefighter killer comes close) for a long time now. A killer in a vintage scuba suit or old sailor or perhaps an old naval officer or even a pirate would be super cool.
Also there are so many options for a nautical themed map. "The Lighthouse", "The Docks" or "The Dockyard", "The Isle" or "The Island", it all sounds super cool.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334233#Comment_2334233
Good news! Trickster is getting buffed in the mid chapter. There lowering the amount of knifes to damage survivors to 6 and there increasing the main event window to 30 seconds
Not tryna start another somethin- but imma just leave this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AixNUYxSyKE -
@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2326383#Comment_2326383
Jeez alright dude I'm just stating my thoughts about how I find the antidote fun, didn't intend to upset you. Just thought I could convince you to try out my strategy, but oh well, it's fine.
I don't know why you continued anyway, since I was under the assumption that we had agreed to disagree. But ok
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2326321#Comment_2326321
Look, if you're too hesitant on actually using the antidotes effectively, that's fine. I don't think Clown's antidote playstyle is for you, and that's also completely fine.
Again, focusing on my personal experience rather than the actual argument itself, which I guess is apparently indefensible since you're not willing to defend it. Your passive aggressive insults are nothing more than an ad hominem.
@blue4zion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2326321#Comment_2326321
PWYF is barely used because of how hard it is to get and keep tokens, especially the time it'll waste.
You clearly don't understand what I was saying and assuming you think PWYF is bad when you get stacks, you prob won't understand why these are good.
Meh, find someone new if you won't take the time to practice placement of both bottles.
You act as if I'm the only one that holds this opinion, I can most certainly tell you that you are the minority when it comes to opinions on the strength of the yellow bottles. They aren't good. They're uninspired, they don't add a significant nuance to how Clown is played (especially since you can play him and never use the yellow bottles at all unlike many killers who rely just as much or nearly as much on their secondary ability as their primary, like Doctor's Static Blast, Pig's RBT's, Demogorgon's Portals) and I will reaffirm they barely have an impact on chases. Again, I refer you to the math I've already posted:
"10% is not that significant of a speed boost and you can do the math to prove this. A survivor that's 20 meters away and continues to run at 4 meters per second it would take you a whole 18 seconds to catch up. Here's the math, Clown moving at 5m/s (125% movement speed, which is the 115% mov. speed at base + the 10% from the gas) and a survivor moving at 4m/s + 20. Clown: 5(18 seconds) = 90 meters distance covered. Survivor: 4(18 seconds) + 20 = 92 meters. We'll chalk up the last 2 meters that the clown is lagging behind what he can make up for with a lunge.
Here's the thing though, that math only works if the Clown's movement speed was a consistent 125% which it isn't. The movement speed wears off after only 5 seconds, and then it's back down to 115 so you can assume it would take even longer to catch up to said survivor. And that's not even considering the limited capacity of bottles he has before he needs to reload again which slows him down."
Scott's words about the ability when it was first introduced on the PTB are no less true today than they were then.
https://youtu.be/g5ZaIKTGc_s?t=44 -
I guess you could say I gravitate towards Stronger killers, but I think that's a separate thing from what I usually play in reality. I enjoy playing Trapper, I enjoy playing Clown, I've had a great time playing Nemesis, and I'm trying to make Trickster work but haven't quite gotten the hang of him yet seeing as he's in a really poor state right now. Most people don't consider these exceptionally strong killers and with the exception of perhaps Nemesis most people would say none of these are even average let alone good killers.
At the same time, I'm a Ghostface main (who I personally put at B tier but I know some people think he's on the more average side than good side). I also really have a lot of fun with Oni, Deathslinger, Freddy. I'd also like to get better at Blight.
So that's a pretty even balance all things considered.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323407#Comment_2323407
You can't be too sure 'till you try it out.
What do you mean try it out?? You act like I've never played Clown before???
Sure, I'll admit to not being a main, but it's certainly a great leap in logic to say that you can't understand the fundamental principles of a killer or even the deep nuances of a killer unless you main them. I've played a considerable number of hours with Clown so to demean my experience is nothing short of degrading.
That is- it would be degrading if I was for certain that you really are a proficient Clown main. Although based off the conversation, I'm still on the fence about that.
@blue4zion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323340#Comment_2323340
Keep it simple: If a single Play with your food stack can make a difference on the occasion you have it, a similar effect that you can activate almost anytime will be more, if not the same no?
It's a matter of how you use them. Don't place them where survivors can utilize them and paired with a well placed purple bottle, loops don't exist. Pallet drops are even more forced on clown than before if it was even possible.
Also, I tend to throw them directly at survivors doing the W strat. Better than corralling in some occasions.
Except Play With Your Food is very much an infrequently used perk, because frankly it's not all that great and much like the banana flavored bottles are extremely limited in terms of the movement speed boost you're provided. PWYF stacks force you to go out of your way to chase the obsession and then let them go, conceding pressure and wasting time that would be better spent applying pressure elsewhere, in exchange for a stack that provides an extremely small speed boosts and goes away as soon as you perform any aggressive action. Rarely will you have all 3 tokens of play with your food at the same time and if you do, it's because you're deliberately giving ground and conceding pressure in the hopes that it will pay off later in the match.
So yeah, your analogy sort of fits- especially in the context that both PWYF and the pee bottles both suck as chase tools and I'd much rather pick something else over both. And much like the Clown, PWYF is a rarely used perk at its worst and infrequently used at its best for the reasons previously stated. Not what I would call compelling evidence.
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They're both dumb and it's so obviously just the devs literally throwing anything against the wall and watching to see if something sticks. The crowns are just a side objective and the act of finding them is really the only interesting thing about them- and I rarely if ever see people wear them outside of the actual anniversary events.
Even WITHIN the events the crowns are overshadowed by the anniversary recolors of the default clothes: black clothes with gold veins running through them. Which I actually see in use outside of the events because they're both practical and they actually look aesthetically pleasing.
The random Gold Halo which is supposed to be a "crude representation of the entity" just doesn't look fitting at all.
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I don't know a single person that likes motion blur in any game ever.
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I think if you're gonna make a poll about these more obscure characters, you should probably provide some info about them and their source material.
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Bro, Dead Hard doesn't even work properly half the time- it's completely busted on Console right now. Plus when a killer knows you have it and can adapt during the match it, becomes marginally less useful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJFbtMzQu7Q^ posted literally today btw lmao.
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The Shining is a great and well-known landmark of horror,
I'm just not sure if it fits into Dead By Daylight.
There's also the whole thing about Stephen King who may or may not be willing to work with BHVR, if they're struggling to get pennywise (which would certainly be a fantastic addition to the game) I'm not sure that the shining would even be on the table.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323380#Comment_2323380
Antidotes to counter W meta.
Dude, the burden of proof rests entirely on you to prove that to me. That's your shtick not mine.
Although again, I believe I was fairly comprehensive in my initial response to such a preposterous idea.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323373#Comment_2323373
Oh believe me, just try it. That's all I'm going to say.
Try what?
EDIT: if you're talking about the implied list- you still haven't even properly addressed the criticisms and points I've already raised. So I don't know why I would give you the opportunity to move on when you didn't really respond to what I've already said. The cocky "oh believe me" is very much out of place here since you haven't really actually written a response.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323340#Comment_2323340
Even then you can counter W with the antidotes. Nothing else to say here.
If you think he needs another rework, then we'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, he's in a fine spot, and there are other killers that need to be prioritized.
You can't just say "you can counter W with antidotes" when I've literally got the math up there for you to re-read. You're basically reaffirming or restating a claim without providing supporting evidence, that does nothing in the broader conversation.
I'll say again that I believe there are more than enough issues with the character to warrant prioritization, many of which I've listed out and many more I didn't quite touch upon fully if at all, but fair enough. I won't patronize someone who will agree to disagree.
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@blue4zion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319869#Comment_2319869
Promise they're not useless, just gotta find the uses.
I've already addressed this more specifically in my most recent post. If they're not useless they are near-useless which may as well be the same thing.
EDIT: If there are however, uses that are unbeknownst to me, please I would very much encourage you to list them out! Instead of vaguely implying "just trust me, there are uses"
@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323220#Comment_2323220
You can use predrop W to your advantage. Delicious pallets. Plus you can actually counterloop predropped pallets anyway. Also, I'm sure you haven't played Clown enough. If you don't think the antidotes counter W meta, you need to try it out, it does a lot more than you think.
People don't play him that much because he's not the most powerful killer, he's on the lower end of mid-tier killers. That's why people play the stronger killers like Spirit, Freddy, Twins, maybe Oni, etc... (Hag is underplayed because she takes a bit more skill than the others, other than Oni, and isn't fun to play as for others).
Perhaps "great spot" was an exaggeration because that was my thought, but I would say he's in a fine spot.
There are more than enough pallets on most every map to pre-drop every single one and rush all 5 generators if you're not playing at low ranks and you're not dealing with a group of confused and lost survivors.
Also the intention is not to loop a dropped pallet because of course that's an easy way for a Clown to keep you at a loop long enough that the gas actually has an impact at the loop. The intention is to drop it and then run holding W for as long as possible before heading to the next loop and potentially repeating the process. And if the Clown decides for some reason not to break the pallet and continue chase, you can eventually at some point pull a roundabout and head back to the same loop and vault the pallet again to gain distance in the opposite direction.
Even IF you're kept at a loop with a dropped pallet however, if you're dealing with a long enough loop you don't have to move at all and instead you can just vault and revault the same pallet over and over again. Because again, the clown's "Toxic" gas does absolutely nothing to stop a survivor from getting a pallet stun or slow down the vault speed of a pallet. Unlike say, Huntress Hatchets, Deathslinger Redeemer, Doctor Shock Therapy, Nemesis Tentacle, Pyramid Head's Punishment of the Damned, and on and on and on.
I've played more than enough Clown to know this and it's precisely because I know this that I sit here typing away trying to get one of my favorite characters the justice that he deserves. On the contrary, I'd bring your experience into question since you haven't exactly contradicted many (if any) of the valid criticisms I've brought up. I would think a Clown main would have some advice or insight that would be more interesting, or at least understand the point of view I'm bringing to the table considering even a Clown main can't be seeing super great success in the higher ranks. The only reason I don't play Clown more often is because of the poor state that he is in.
And on top of this you prove my point that much further- even by the highest realistic estimations you're still putting him in the low-mid tier of killers. A killer who was released in the 8th chapter of Dead By Daylight and has been out for 3 years of the 5 years that this game has been in existence. And you're seriously telling me you don't expect more out of such a character? As a main? Really?
I would agree, "great spot" is most certainly an exaggeration.
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I'm voting yes- only because I think it would be very thematically interesting to see flat out villains introduced into the survivor roster, which is something I hadn't personally thought of before. We typically associate the survivors with decent, righteous, persistent, and innocent people who were taken into the realm of the entity based on circumstance but what if alongside them we saw selfish, unprincipled, opportunistic, and determined, villainous characters. Who are forced to work with our "heroes" for the sake of survival in such dire situations? Obviously with the implication that they'll likely return to their dishonorable ways and ignoble goals on escape- or hell maybe even before and betraying the survivors if given the chance to escape?
It applies to Wesker but I'm saying it's an interesting idea to consider as a whole for the future of the survivor roster.
@Anniehere said:
They are nice. but i really like noir outfit:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SB50KCF41GK5/ewslxk4w8au0l2z.jpg
But if I had a choice I'd pick Noir Leon over Wesker. Sorry.
There are a few other outfits Leon has from RE2 remake as alternate outfits that I'd like to see in-game as well. Namely the Sheriff one but the Noir one is really cool.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319869#Comment_2319869
Clown main here.
He's fine, he's in a great spot. All he needs is his bottle count separated. Very enjoyable killer IMO, doesn't need add-ons to enjoy either.
The yellow bottles do a lot in chases, kills W meta and it's a really good and fun chase utility.
If he was in a great spot his play rates wouldn't be as abysmal as they are. His poor standing compared to the rest of the killer cast is reflected in how little he is played / how poor his pick rate is.
And I don't mean to doubt your experience as a Clown main (though I will say I have met very few people that actually main Clown which adds a layer of doubt) I will say there is a difference between being able to play a killer well and that killer actually being in a healthy spot balance wise. It is a very important distinction to be made when gauging the overall effectiveness of a killer and the fact remains there's very little reason to choose Clown as opposed to any other killers that have chase oriented kits.
Unless you like the character himself, which I myself do which is why I want to see the Clown improved and put into better standing- and I would think someone that actually does main the character would understand that and not try to work against the effort to do so.
There's very little to no nuance within his kit, there aren't really many opportunities to grow as a Clown player as far as skill goes and it's not all that interesting or compelling to go against as far as survivor play goes. You drop pallets early, you leave loops early, and you hold W as far as you can in an effort to waste time for your teammates to gen. rush which he can do nothing about since Clown is intended to focus on the 1 v 1 rather than the 1 v 4. That isn't interesting counterplay and in fact that works on every killer so it's not like this counterplay is very specific to the clown himself and that's a key issue with his overall power. There's frankly not enough substance to make it all that fun or interesting at the current moment and I'd like to see him given a secondary ability such as the "Fun Time Gas Traps" which I've mentioned time and time again rather than the useless lemon scented gas.
Which by the way, I fail to see how a 10% speed boost "counters" the hold w meta. 10% is not that significant of a speed boost and you can do the math to prove this. A survivor that's 20 meters away and continues to run at 4 meters per second it would take you a whole 19 seconds to catch up. Here's the math, Clown moving at 5m/s (125% movement speed, which is the 115% mov. speed at base + the 10% from the gas) and a survivor moving at 4m/s + 20. Clown: 5(18 seconds) = 90 meters distance covered. Survivor: 4(18 seconds) + 20 = 92 meters. We'll chalk up the last 2 meters that the clown is lagging behind what he can make up for with a lunge.
Here's the thing though, that math only works if the Clown's movement speed was a consistent 125% which it isn't. The movement speed wears off after only 5 seconds, and then it's back down to 115 so you can assume it would take even longer to catch up to said survivor. And that's not even considering the limited capacity of bottles he has before he needs to reload again which slows him down.
Again, just because X, Y, or Z persons can play the Clown well just like any other killers on the list- Trapper, Trickster, Pig, Legion, whoever, does not necessarily translate to that killer actually being in good standing. There are a lot of issues with Clown that could be resolved in unique and interesting ways that could make the killer far more compelling than the low standard most people currently hold him to. Which I guess also extends to Clown mains themselves now.
@WexlerWendigo said:
Why is plague even an option?
Because up until maybe the Twins and Trickster she's arguably the most horribly designed killer in the game with the next most passive ability in third place after pre-rework Doctor and Freddy with very little opportunity to express skill on either side.
(Which to contextualize, is one of the core central tenants of Dead By Daylight: Passive is not fun, and historically we've seen many changes made to powers, perks, and other mechanics to enforce this design philosophy, the aforementioned full scale reworks to Doctor and Freddy but also to perks like Object of Obsession which used to provide constant information at all points during a match.)
To clarify- I did not say she was weak nor did I ever make the claim that she is overpowered, I said she is poorly designed and I use those words very specifically.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319869#Comment_2319869
I’m sorry clowns not here I know he needs more buffs but compared to the others he’s nurse tier compared to Trapper, Myers, Trickster and Legion
That is just so incredibly wrong on multiple levels. Clown has been consistently the worst or bottom 3 for years now, the only character that I actually think is comparable is Trickster.
Trapper has his own problems but the ways to solve them are much more easily identifiable and are much quicker fixes than what I expect Clown, Trickster, or Legion needs which are likely looking at some level of full scale reworks.
Legion like Clown has really never been in a good position power or fun factor wise, but I would still argue in a better position than clown because he does have the map mobility to move around the map quickly and Deep Wounds still serves as a stalling mechanic that forces survivors off generators for a small amount of time, however small that amount of time may be.
As for Myers its frankly a joke that anyone would put him as low as these other killers. The rest I can see as debatable, Myers is most definitely not in the same circumstance as anybody else that you listed. He might be on the weaker end of killers but definitely not bottom tier in the gutter with the rest of these, I would say that's a combination of an overexaggeration of the weaker aspects of his power and an overlooking / underselling of the stronger ones.
As I've said before: Clown is a one-note chase killer with very little substance to his kit who isn't even all that powerful in his chases since he's hard countered by many pallet loops (afterpiece tonic has zero impact on dropping or vaulting a pallet). But this little summary doesn't even do half the justice of the issues, many of which he shares with the trickster because they've got the same design philosophy, chase killers without a shred of map mobility or map pressure and the problem stems from the fact that their chase tools at their absolute worst are both ineffective throughout many chases in a trial. Which leaves them to operate as M1 killers. The difference is Trickster's knives actually do "damage" while the Clown's toxic gas does absolutely nothing and can be more or less completely ignored if you're by a pallet and you'll only be mildly inconvenienced by if you're by a window. "Nurse tier" my butt.
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Clown T_T
The fact that he doesn't even show up on the list of options in the poll just shows how little people care about the character. Clown needs some serious love, not the useless yellow bottles that do nothing- a real doctor level rework.
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Both. Please.
Absolutely spectacular mockup of what these features could realistically look like in game without cluttering up the menu or UI. This has to be one of my most looked forward to practical features that they've yet to implement. Right next to a crafting system, more incentives to Prestige characters, getting rid of perk tiers (AND reducing the grind in other ways on top of that), matchmaking incentives, etc.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
I don't really see how it would work, other than having a killer which is like Spirit with Stridor, except visible to survivors at all times. That could become rather disorientating. Although, it does have the uniqueness going for it.
The only real problem here is that the Aliens from A Quiet Place are entirely as Alien as Aliens get, and there's absolutely zero chance that the developers would be able to reuse the skeleton / rig that they normally do for basically every single killer. The creatures from a quiet place run entirely on all fours if I'm not mistaken, and that might be a huge turn off / big no on the part of the devs just because they focus on more human / humanoid killers.
The demogorgon is like a step or two away from human since it can walk on all fours but also on two legs as seen in the show, but the creatures from a Quiet Place are like three or five steps away from being human.
So I'm just not sure if they'd be willing to commit to it, since non-human / non-humanoid killers / characters haven't really ever been considered in Dead By Daylight. That's why we never got that Spider-killer that the community asked for so much all the way back in 2016 (and instead it showed up in Last Year which kind of died so..). Although the game has gotten a lot bigger, stronger, and has a lot more resources now than when those statements were original made so never say never maybe?
How a potential power would work on the other hand I'd be 100% behind, giving the killer the restriction of limited visibility but excellent hearing I think could manifest quite nicely in Dead By Daylight as a unique concept. Perhaps the creature would have clear vision only for a few meters of distance and then the map gets progressively darker the farther you're trying to see. And some brand new way of "seeing" would be created, like outlines of objects from echolocation and things like that. And you'd have to "echolocate" or something whenever you want / need to get a good look at your surroundings which lasts for a few seconds.
Meanwhile to compensate the creature could have the most unrestricted movement of the entire roster and move the fastest and attack the quickest or something.
It's a pretty radical idea I know. Which is why I can't help but kind of agree with the devs that maybe the resources this chapter would take up would just not be worth it for the one individual chapter. And it really makes you wonder if A Quiet Place is really worth all that dedication. It was a good movie that toyed with sound in horror in a unique way but beyond that it's not really all that memorable compared to other licenses imo. So really I'm either way on this particular license.
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@glitchboi said:
I absolutely LOVED the movie. Amazing watch and a horrifying movie. A sympathetic antagonist and a protagonist that you can probably relate to at times.
I want a Candyman chapter.
This is just one of the reasons why The Candyman is a spectacular choice to add to the roster of killers in Dead by Daylight.
A sympathetic killer is such an interesting contradiction that serves only to further diversify the killer cast and the kinds of characters you'll find within. Although I know Dead By Daylight has already toyed with this idea in a few of its killers who are borne out of Tragedy rather than Malice (Hillbilly, Spirit, Plague, The Twins) the theme is really pushed home with the original story of the Candyman, a well known 19th century artist whose only crimes were being born the son of a slave, and choosing who he loved (a white woman), which was cause enough to get him killed in such times.
Beyond the character himself, the Candyman also has a lot of potential power wise, and I consider him almost like a second Freddy in terms of how much of a wide scope his powers encompass. Because much of his power is left so vague in the films we could expect to see almost anything out of the urban legend who haunts those that speak his name. Although of course with the name Candyman I know many are expecting to see an aspect of his power that will have something to do with controlling bees. Which would be very interesting as we have yet to see any killer that uses insects to torment and terrify their victims (IE Marguerite from RE7) despite this archetype / trope not being unheard of.
There are a lot of reasons to be excited about a potential Candyman chapter, and I'm definitely looking forward to the film after so many delays.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
"The ultimate in Alien terror". The first thing I ever did on these forums was post an idea for The Thing. It's my favorite horror movie of all time. And it's implementation would make me spend so much money that skins could never get. And I don't care what the devs said about a shapeshifter. If we got a Clown and the Hillbilly inspiration we can get this. Unfortunately I don't see a lot of support for it here. Which makes me so sad. I keep waiting for the day we get this chapter.
This one knows what's up ^^
The original film is absolutely incredible and even if the devs had a hard time implementing it into the game I say it'd be entirely worth it all the way. The Thing is up there in the Top 5 of my most wanted licenses, I just don't talk about it as much because I know that it's a bit difficult to visualize and supporting something in the abstract can sometimes be difficult.
That might be a good thing however, as Dead By Daylight has fallen into a bit of a monotony and creating killers that are really oppressive in the chase and lack anything else. I'd love to see killer powers that innovate again and create something unique, and perhaps the challenges posed by characters like The Thing or Chucky even are exactly what Dead By Daylight and its devs need to spur some really fresh inventiveness and imagination to create new distinct characters that feel entirely their own.
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I'd want it ONLY if we're talking about the 2013 Sleepy Hollow Series or an original creation from BHVR out of the legend of the Headless Horseman.
The 2013 show is underrated in my opinion, boasted a spectacular cast and a Gothic story of the Occult in the modern day (which is almost 10 years ago now) and covered all kinds of folklore like the Sandman, the Witches of Salem, The Lost Colony of Roanoke and much more. Also, the Headless Horseman within the show is just straight up badass
This particular version of the headless horseman would also fulfill my want for an original chapter featuring an old vintage soldier as a killer, whether that's the Revolutionary War, Mexican-American War, Civil War, all the way up to WWI (I would say is the threshold before you head into more modern conflicts) doesn't matter.
Sleepy Hollow also had an INCREDIBLE theme which sounds incredibly haunting and reminds me a little bit of the Blight events from DBD:
https://youtu.be/SzHD7zwaZwo?t=12The theme was composed and produced by Brian Tyler (who created the scores for a bunch of marvel movies including Iron Man 3 + Avengers Age of Ultron, Crazy Rich Asians, Now You See Me, and seven of the fast and furious movies, and music for many other movies, tv, and video games [he created the music for AC IV Black flag!?])
Much as I know people love Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow film from 1999, I just can't get beyond the fact that the headless horseman is Christopher Walken. Also the all black attire seems really dull and cliche to me and not at all as visually interesting as the tattered Redcoat uniform of the Headless Horseman in the show. If that was the headless horseman we got, you'd have to bump my vote all the way down to "I don't like it but it's whatever").
Although again, I'm entirely open to seeing the legend of the Headless Horseman as adapted by the devs themselves, I'm sure they could create their own more mature and compelling version of the character out of the iconic story for Dead by Daylight. In that case my vote would be "Sure I'd like it".
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Of this list the only ones that actually deserve an extension / addition(al chapter / paragraph) are Ghostface, Ash Vs. Evil Dead, and Left 4 Dead.
These paragraphs / chapters are the only ones that received less content than usual without maps or a survivor or killer, and it especially doesn't seem fair if a chapter like Stranger Things or Resident Evil which got MORE content than usual (2 survivors + killer + map) got another addition on top of that.
I would absolutely love to see a real scream licensed chapter to round out the ghostface chapter, perhaps they could sell them in a bundle to be the same price as a normal chapter instead of having to buy both separately for a slightly increased cost.
And side note, as much as I love Sydney Prescott because she's the main character, I'd actually prefer to see Randy Meeks as a playable character instead.
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I selected too quickly because I didn't see the "no killers should be banned" option- so just switch my vote over there.
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In all reality, the game is a lot more balanced than people give it credit for- that being said it's not perfect by any means and nowhere close to that in fact. Like any game, obviously it can and always could be improved: the discrepancy between the best killers and the worst ones is massive, much like the discrepancy between solo survivor and SWF, maps can always be improved to find a healthier balance between artistic vision / aesthetic and actual gameplay, and so on and so forth.
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People make more noise about Hillbilly than they really should.
Could Hillbilly use changes? Yeah, debatably he could- although to play devil's advocate I do believe there's plenty of room to argue that he doesn't need changes so I don't think it's as one sided as the conversation may seem despite the results of this poll.
However, the use of the word "dire" and the phrase "in dire need" is what really turns me off here and I will say is just not an acceptable term / phrase to use in relation to Hillbilly. Because unlike Hillbilly there are killers that haven't been changed significantly who have needed changes for literal years. Clown, Pig, Legion, Trickster, Trapper, (I would add Plague to this list but for slightly different reasons) THESE are the killers that are in ACTUAL dire need. These are the killers with historically low pick rates by comparison to the rest of the killer cast and with inadequate powers and abilities them unsuccessful in power, or arguably even worse in fun factor to play as or against.
There is very little reason and reward to pick these killers over anybody else in the cast.
- Clown is a one-note chase killer with very little substance to his kit who isn't even all that powerful in his chases since he's hard countered by many pallet loops (afterpiece tonic has zero impact on dropping or vaulting a pallet)
- Pig is undoubtedly the worst of the four stealth killers, trading both movement speed and FOV in order for the undetectable status effect, an obnoxiously loud audio cue which warns survivors giving them ample time to simply out-distance her ambush, and a completely RNG reliant element of her kit which may or may not have any significant influence on the match. Flip a coin.
- Legion is the ONLY killer on the entire roster that has an ability which does not help him down survivors. Take a minute to think about thism mentally list out every killer out of the current 24 character roster, even on the list I'm going through now Clown can slow down and catch survivors at window loops, Pig can still use her ambush to mindgame small or tall loops, trapper can stop chases completely, etc. (Plague comes close to suffering from the same problem, but she at least has corrupt purge which is her saving grace). I will assert that more than anything else this is the reason why legion unfun and unsatisfying to play as.
- Trickster is the worst of the three (four?) ranged killers, and unfortunately there's just nothing outstanding about the Trickster (beyond personality and visual design) that he does better than or even equal to his peers. He doesn't have the range / accuracy of Huntress, he doesn't have the ridiculous ADS time or lack of ammo supply of Deathslinger, he can't hit damage more than one survivors with one attack like plague, and it's not like he's necessarily easier to play than any of these other killers he doesn't have a lower skill floor, I would actually argue he's harder to play and for much less payoff. He's the ineffective little brother to these other killers and worse by comparison than Pig is to the other Stealth killers.
- Trapper suffers from too long of a setup phase, that doesn't have a guaranteed payoff- Bear Traps can be easily picked out especially by comparison to Hag's phantasm traps (and especially on indoor maps that have little to no grass or foliage) and then avoided or disarmed by perceptive survivors. His time efficiency is atrocious as he is the only killer who doesn't start with his ability and needs to collect beartraps scattered around the map, some of which are just too far away and in places you would never go such that crossing the entire map to pick them up wastes too much time and costs you generators or even the match itself. Without these traps he is the posterboy of a standard M1 killer.
- Plague violates one of the core central tenants of Dead By Daylight, which is "Passive is not fun". You can take a dive down the DBD history books and you'll see that the devs have historically and fairly consistently changed powers, perks, and other mechanics in the game that have passive elements to them. Famously 1st generation Freddy Krueger and The Doctor who had some of the most passive kits in the entire game which didn't necessarily reward skillful play so much as just letting the power do all the work and heavy lifting. However we can see the same thing in other aspects of the game as well such as the recent Object of Obsession rework which is no longer as passive as it used to be and no longer provides free information all the time 24/7 through aura reading by simply existing. Plague is the next in line of killers that have passive abilities she pukes even just the tiniest bit of vile purge onto your left toe and immediately you're infected and with zero counterplay to deal with that. Regardless of what the plague does (continue chasing you or just leave you be now that you're sick) you will eventually be broken at which point you're confronted with a Hobson's Choice or non-choice which is to choose whether to provide the plague with the most aggressively powerful ability in the game or to stay broken. Unlike the rest of the list the plague poses less of a balance issue in that she's not powerful and more of a fun-factor issue in that she's just not fun to play as or against and gives very little opportunity for either the killer or the survivor to display skill or skillful plays in an active way.
(yes I understand that with each bullet point they got longer and became more and more of a rant).
And ya'll have the audacity to say that the HILLBILLY who has chase potential, map mobility, and an instant down all in the same kit is in DIRE NEED??? Because you can't deal with the idea of having a cooldown?????? Really?
No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Say what you will about Hillbilly and whether or not he needs changes, but if he does need changes he is at the very BACK of the queue as far as need-based killers go.
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@Jarol said:
Keanu Reeves.
I agree with this.
Keanu Reeves is the only celebrity I could see added unironically, that wouldn't be looked on as a goofy decision.
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@Dito175 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2246174#Comment_2246174
It's a nice way to put it but it's just my personal dislike about the idea, if this end up being canon they stuck in their defaults would just turn into a headcanon of mine.
I'm the flip side about this one actually. The more I think about it the more I like this explanation / head canon, it fleshes out the mechanics of how the entity itself works, and if DBD were a TV series I could see an audience learning more and more about the main characters in this fashion.
Everyone permanently wearing their default clothes seems kind of boring and lackluster to me. The default clothes have a timeless and classic look to them of course, but I think I'd get to hate the idea of them wearing the same thing forever. Wardrobe is an important (and fluid) element of building characters after all.
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@TerminatorGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2244366#Comment_2244366
Yeah you do it quite a lot. You'd make a fantastic author. :P
Deathgarden tried to incorporate a lot of "back-up" methods to try and keep the game alive. The Terminator add-on and the Bloodharvest relaunch were examples of that. Anyhow, the film distribution company that licensed out the T-800 to other game developing companies was StudioCanal S.A.S from what I remember(not sure if the rights have been bought out to someone else since then). They aren't protective at all from what I can see when it comes to lending out the rights to the T-800 endoskeleton, as long as it's being requested by a decently sized company. Another reason I say it's a non-factor is because I have been told that the Terminator's chances of being in DBD is not affected by its inclusion in Deathgarden at all by a certain bhvr higher up. Now, I know this is annectodal and with no evidence, but you don't need to believe it if you choose not to. I think we can both come to a consesus that it would a non-factor.
Wonder what happened internally that made them choose Tapp over Matthews. Could it have had something to do with Lion's Gate decisions and our folks over at bhvr having no say in the matter? Something you, as a consumer would not know about? I'm sure if the devs had the power to choose any character from any series on their own, they would always choose the more popular characters. But once again, it's not as important for survivors as it is with killers.
The fact that Amanda vs Hoffman in terms of popularity is arguable already shows that they can be interchangeable. We don't need to go into the nitty gritty of the character's hubris and downfall. We see in SAW 3 that Amanda Young is vulnerable to going her own way as well. Only held back by John Kramer himself. They were both iconic candidates to be chosen into the realm of the Entity unlike Terminator where the T-1000 is nowhere near iconic as the T-800, and thus can't be debated. Simple as that.
The "hall of fame of horror" title helps my case a lot, fortunately. We first have to establish that Mr.Cote is the game director who is involved in the licensing department and negotiations. Note: DBD can only choose one killer at a time for the chapter reveal. Who is more beloved in the Terminator franchise? Who is more widely recognized? Who would sell more? Who comes from a movie that's offically, and I repeat officially, tagged as a horror film regardless of your subjective opinion? If you answered the T-1000 to any of these, then you are simply in denial and bias. There is only one iconic candidate that every Terminator DLC includes.
But Seiko, my friend, who are you to state that the T-1000 is objectively a horror character and Darth Vader isn't? What would you tell someone who is terrified of Darth Vader and says he is a horror character since you're doing the same thing with the T-1000? And then what would you say to me and many others who would tell you to your face that T2 is not a horror movie and the T-1000 is not a horror character/ not scary? My point being, you are going based off a subjective, unofficial viewpoint. I however, am not as I have google and James Cameron to determine that the T-800 is indeed, axiomatically a horror character. You saying "it is horror" doesn't make it horror. "The world doesn't revolve around you" as the old saying goes.
It's only undeniably horror to YOU. You seem to somehow equate violence to horror with your pics and clips which completely invalidates your point.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0KF5ICTGD8I0/vader-killing-people-281-29.jpg
Wow, look at Vader. Chopping off limbs, causing bodily harm, brutally killing people and just being an unstoppable force just like a T-1000. That's pretty scary, even more so than merely intimidating while being a Disney character at the same time. I guess he can be added to DBD right? Violence does not equal horror. The T-1000 is not a horror character. Burden of proof is on you to convice me that he is. Which you have no way of doing because he is in fact not a horror character. That is axiomatic.
Now, let me show you something even cooler, Seiko. You ready? You see this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ICAN50GGYKAH/terminator-genre.png
Funny thing is I don't even need to go beyond a simple google search to determine what is oficially horror. It tells me straightforward. Your denial of the truth does not change anything. That is what shows up for Terminator 1. You see that nice tag, smack dab in the center. Yeah... the T-800 comes from that. Now, do the same for Terminator 2:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/28W6JVOQB24J/image.png
What do you see? No horror tag found in sight. And as far as I'm concerned, no character in DBD comes from a series that is only tagged as a thriller. T2 has no chance, I'm sorry.
Why did you send me two links to a subjective article and podcast? Someone like you could've wrote that and made an opinionated "psychoanalysis" (that is hilarious btw). I looked at the article only. This is like something Buzzfeed would send me lol. Just because some nobody says T2 is like horror, doesn't make it horror.
"...the T-1000 is a fundamentally more interesting and thought provoking addition to the Dead by Daylight cast of killers than the T-800" Firstly, subjective opinion again. And secondly, I can find hundreds of other non-horror characters that would make for a better addition than the T-1000. I just know there is no point, because DBD only chooses movies that are horror-tagged. Like T1 and not T2. Ouch, that's gotta sting!
Didn't I tell you in the last debate we had like a year or two ago that the T-800 doesn't need guns? Want me to pull up a dozen decent T-800 killer concepts on Reddit that are very unique and don't feature guns? Your lack of creativity is not mutual with others. And we have multiple killers with knives too. Or a chainsaw. Play the Family Feud buzzer for me on this one.
You personally know BHVR higher ups????
"Something you, as a consumer would not know about?" also applies to you as well, and that brings us straight back to square one in pretty even ground. Equally you yourself don't have much if any insider knowledge about how easy or strict the negotiations with Lionsgate were and whether or not they had the option to pick these more popular characters and deliberately turned down the opportunity.
Saying it doesn't matter with survivors as much is also an just an out / escape so you don't have to argue that front. It's easier to defend the killer side where there are quite literally fewer options to pick as a true killer seeing as the whole franchise is about morality, "cherish your life or be punished for it" and all that. However much more difficult to defend on the survivor side as the issue becomes much more apparent when confronted with the fact that Tapp shows for literally a single movie and could only with great difficulty be argued as a more popular pick than Detective Eric Matthews, Officer Daniel Rigg, or a good 80% of the total cast of the franchise. It's a hole in your argument and you know it, you only make it more obvious when you try to play it off as if "it doesn't matter".
It can be debated because the word iconic is a threshold, not a numerical measure or scale. Once a character has breached the brink and become an icon, they are iconic thus fulfilling your self-imposed "rule" and everything else is just semantics. Because then you can just pit license against license and say which is "more" iconic than the other? Answer this: which is more iconic, Resident Evil or Left 4 Dead? And then tell me which came first to Dead By Daylight?
Even if iconic was a scale measure though, I don't have to stick to SAW either to make this point clear. Another example is the Nightmare on Elm Street license- and while yes, technically it's Freddy Krueger in name, that doesn't change the fact that fans were desperately hoping and waiting for Robert Englund's classic Freddy Krueger. Why? Because the 2010 remake is a completely different character, and would arguably according to your logic be "less iconic" and therefore not worthy of being picked for the game. Yet here he is.
I say objectively because it is displayed through the traits and characteristics of the genre. Not because of a google search, but because how the separate films Star Wars vs. X, Y, Z, horror films present and advertise themselves. X, Y, Z, horror films share many things in common that unites them and creates the genre that they belong to- for example, typically involving a psychopathic killer (in this case, the T-1000) who stalks and murders innocent victims in a typically random, unprovoked fashion (John does not know or understand why he is being hunted down, and that is part of the horror: living your normal life one day, on the run from a killer the next) who uses unconventional weapons such as blades, cleavers, and other sharp slashing instruments (refer to pictures already presented above, the T-1000 and his shape shifting blades) and is able to withstand most or all of his victims' attempts to defend themselves and thus even after being shot, stabbed, bludgeoned, exploded, etc. (The T-1000 continues to be shot and attacked but only reforms more or less unscathed) he is not only alive but able to continue stalking his victims.
These stories are often enveloped in an air of suspense, evoking feelings of apprehension, anticipation, tension, and some form of anxiety in the viewer, elements which develop due to the mysterious, unpredictable, and often frightening events which unfold throughout the narrative. In T2, this comes from the sudden appearance of a murderous, nearly indestructible android who is more or less unstoppable and unceasing in its pursuit to hunt down John Conner, who kills anyone who gets in the way between him and the victim of his obsession, much like your classic slasher villain. The overly dark and gruesome tone of the film gives all the action within it that much more weight, and like within any horror sequel, the stakes and overwhelming odds have been increased in the antagonists favor now that the Terminator Model has been upgraded with superior cognitive abilities that make it a better infiltrator and hunter, which can take more damage absorbing nearly any blow and regenerating itself in the moment, and deal more damage as the shapeshifting body parts allow it to be more dangerous at close ranges even without firearms. And much like any good sequel, the kills overall become more elaborate and gruesome, with more blood and bodies
If you have not gotten it yet, my point here is not to say that the original Terminator is not a horror film, but that in all the ways that the Terminator is a horror film so too does Terminator 2 follow in many if not all of its footsteps. The films were released only a few years apart and both were steeped in an environment which is basically the golden age of slasher films.
And this entire time I've been engaging this discussion on a conscious and critical level with rhetoric to back up my "subjective opinions" all you've mustered so far is a "welp, google doesn't say it. So 🤷♂️ ". So no, it doesn't "sting" at all, it's a frankly boring an uninspired approach to the conversation that is uninteresting more than anything else, and is worth less of my time to respond to.
Also, I encourage you to pull up some mock Terminator concepts! If you've got a dozen in your back pocket you should be able to tell me at least one good and unique idea that could make the inclusion work. Not only does it have to work the "burden of proof" as you put it, would be on you to convince me that it'd be better than the myriad of powers and abilities that could be provided for the T-1000. Calling me "not creative enough" to come up with something for the shambling metal skeleton who doesn't use any sharp objects (kind of a critical component for a game based on "slashers") doesn't work to prove your point. That's just an ad hominem.
Also, we had this debate a year ago??? I can't believe you remember that. I don't :P
EDIT: That explains a lot actually.
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@TypicalIllusion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2244380#Comment_2244380
why wouldnt it be?
Because it has such an obvious answer
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@Dito175 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2244372#Comment_2244372
Sorry what I meant was that they aren't canon ingame, the rift ones were just about their past but ingame they are always in their defaults.
It's been a while since I heard that so I could be wrong, it just seem silly they being in hell and be able to change their clothes at will.
I mean, I think it makes a lot more sense if you consider it the way I wrote it.
I'm certainly not thinking the survivors are seriously standing by the campfire, selecting from their mental wardrobe the way we actually do in game.
But the idea that certain memories, thoughts, or emotions will result in actual physical changes, in this case in terms of their clothes, in the realm of the entity. This isn't an out of the blue idea either, and this is actually directly mentioned in the lore as a core component of the lore- the entity itself "chooses worlds that have failed to understand the metaphysical relationship between their thoughts and the world they live in, feeding off their ignorance"
The way I understand that, metaphysics "examines the fundamental nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter, between substance and attribute, and between potentiality and actuality." If you think that the rock you're holding in your hand is Gold, then it suddenly becomes gold, and so on and so forth.
This is backed up within the lore more or less: "Vigo and the Observer were aware of the originally mentioned metaphysical relationship between their thoughts and the world they lived in, and thus able to hone their skills and "bend the Fog's irrefragable rules", which allowed them to create to mould and shape The Black Fog to their own will"
There's also this line within the very first tome in Arcus 557 about people who have his power and understanding:
"This is not by chance. It is, to my mind, self-preservation. Victims who know this truth and have honed their ability to manifest could be poisonous to The Entity."
And so on and so forth you get the overall idea.
So point being, it seems to me that the survivors, though they may not understand it, do have this power on a very basic and rudimentary level. Sitting at the campfire gives you a lot of time to think, and when you're a survivor trying not to think about the future, and you don't want to think about the present, you end up thinking about the past. When they remember holidays that they used to celebrate in their former lives, like Christmas for example, they wake up in the next trial wearing holiday sweaters, or other related clothing. When you remember the summers you spent lazing around and having a good time, you appear in the next trial wearing that filmsy straw hat and majestic tropics shirt you wore one summer at the beach.
So quoting myself:
"Basically, any survivor or killer, can reconstruct the clothes around them in conjunction with their memories or emotions. I would bet that feeling a certain way- nostalgia about certain parts of your past when you weren't trapped in the hell that is the realm of the entity would have an influence on how you appear in the fog. Especially in a place that feeds off any and all strong emotions, such as rage, anger, hope, desperation, despair, grief, and yes- nostalgia."
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@RealKamakaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2241919#Comment_2241919
Maybe BHVR should focus on fixing the games matchmaking instead of new killers and survivors.
Unrelated to the poll.
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@CheeseAnton said:
I do want another chapter as Resident Evil is a huge series and it has more than enough material to get 2 chapters. I just want it to be a long time gap before the 2nd chapter happens though, like maybe around a 2 year gap? Idk, just RE is poggers, this upcoming chapter is poggers and I'm very happy about it, but
HUNK needs to get in eventuallyleaving out Chris and Claire just because Jill and Leon got in first is a little unfair considering they are also horror icons nearly as memorable as Jill and Leon.I'm pretty sure Chris and Claire are basically confirmed to be coming as skins for Jill and Leon at some point in the future. Just rumor though (but rumors around PTB time tend to be fairly accurate, and I believe this one).
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Is this a serious question?
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@Dito175 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2236928#Comment_2236928
Devs said a while ago that cosmetics aren't canon, the characters are always with their default outfits.
I've heard this before, but it was under the stipulation that not "all" cosmetics are canon. Which is slightly different, the implication being that most of the cosmetics represent canon parts of character backstory (that's, kind of the entire point of the rift) but there are a few that just don't make sense, or have conflicting descriptions that contrast the lore or what have you.
If you've got a source that proves otherwise, please link.
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@TerminatorGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2241297#Comment_2241297
I forgot that you love getting deep into these, so I'll join and entertain you once again. Firstly, don't see how his lack of attention in Deathgarden is a factor. Even if they added a Predator or another licensed skin for the hunter, it would've still flopped due to a number of core gameplay and communication issues. The game was marketed more towards the already existing asymmetrical community aka DBD. So in other words, somewhat doomed already. Regardless, the T-800 did well as a DLC in Gears and Ghost Recon Breakpoint. That should be enough proof to show that it would not correlate.
Regarding Saw, how do you know they even had to option to select the characters and were not restricted by the license holders? I'd also argue that choosing the #1 most iconic survivor(s), while still being important, is a lot less important than choosing the most iconic killer in the series. It's like choosing Valtiel instead of Pyramid Head for the Silent Hill chapter, Leatherface's brother for TCM., etc. It would be a lot easier to implement survivors who are not as popular as long as they are somewhat known however, i.e Detective Tapp, Quentin Smith.
Do you think Hoffman is more popular than Amanda Young as one of John's apprentices? Genuine question, just wanna know. I think they are very very interchangable as there was a point where the Saw movies started to decline and so did its fanbase. Some movie series have a "peak" of popularity, whether it be one movie or a trilogy. Now as for John/Jigsaw, that's a whole different story. Not only was he an old man dying of disease, but he also had somewhat of a standard of morality. He did not kill people, not directly anyway like the killers do in DBD, and that tied in with his way of thinking/actions. There was no possible way of him being chosen. Overall, the iconic killer rule still stands, hence why this game is called the "hall of fame" of horror per the game director.
Horror is subjective to the individual, sure. But overall, if it is offically tagged as horror then it's horror. If it's not, it's not. Simple as that and there is no way of getting around it. If this company went by your logic, them I'm sure we'd have Darth Vader from Star Wars(scary and thrilling to some, right? Consider Rogue One scene for ex) as a killer or any other non-horror character that is remotely creepy.
Hey, you don't have to consider Stranger Things as thoroughbred horror. The fact still remains that it is indeed horror and is tagged as horror regardless if the sci-fi elements are heavier than the horror ones. Whenever you need to tell if a piece of media is horror or not, just type in "___ genre" on Google. That space being any film, game, etc and see which tags pop up.
So far, every license that they have added has the horror tag. As long as this remains, T2 and the T-1000 will axiomatically never have a chance of making it in. It may fit to you, but that won't matter. As long as this game continues being the hall of fame of horror, we will no doubt either get T1/T-800 or nothing at all. I obviously would prefer the former, but if we get nothing then it is what it is.
Last point is all subjective. I'm sorry, but the reality is that T2 will not be selected for the reasons above. It doesn't have to be the Schwarzenegger look either, just as long as it's based off the only movie that is tagged as horror and was inspired by the Halloween franchise by its director, James Cameron. And even that might not happen either even though we are missing a killer robot anyway. Be happy with what you'll get.
Sometimes I just write for the sake of it, and then I end up writing a few paragraphs more than intended. :P
It's a fair point, Deathgarden had plenty of issues before the license and you're right the choice of license likely wouldn't have had an impact. That being said, they stuck their neck out with Terminator and went on a limb to put that character in a game that didn't have too many prospects to begin with- and I'm not sure the company appreciates that. Even if it's not going to be a major factor in their decision or not, I wouldn't say it's not going to be a factor at all.
As for SAW, I know because it was covered at the time though I can't find the article now. The original survivor pick was supposedly detective Eric Matthews, but for one reason or another it didn't work out and they ended up getting Danny Glover's David Tapp. Detective Tapp aside though it seems to me that even officer Daniel Rigg would have been a better candidate for survivors, the same "obsessed cop" archetype that Tapp represents in Dead By Daylight, except he is younger, has a larger more significant role in the films, is generally a more likable, fleshed out and explored character being present in SAW IV as a main protagonist and a supporting protagonist in SAW II and III. Even in his own movie Detective Tapp was bland, and fairly one dimensional.
As for the killer I would argue that yes, Hoffman is more popular than Amanda Young if for no other reason than purely the fact he has more screentime over the course of multiple films in the franchise. Beyond this however, Hoffman seems to be a more interesting and complex character than Amanda as he leads a double life as a detective working criminal cases like his very own Jigsaw case while at the same time working for Jigsaw himself setting up the intricate plans and traps that ultimately lead to many deaths.
I don't believe that one character here is equal to the other and as far as the franchise goes Hoffman stands out as Jigsaw's ultimate successor who did most of the hands on dirty work. Set apart from Jigsaw however by the fact he did kill multiple people with his own hands and not just with the traps, showing his disregard for John Kramer's original vision, unlike Amanda who didn't frequently display the capacity for killing anyone herself directly, only with the creation and tampering of unfair traps that were unsolvable and couldn't be escaped.
But yes, Jigsaw himself was more or less off the table.
Also, "Hall of fame of horror" is a community dubbed title. It's something I myself have been saying for years now and you referencing Mathieu Cote's basically picking up that honor (quite recently) doesn't really help your case anyway. The T-1000 is very much an iconic and beloved character so it's not as if you're eliminating its candidacy by saying that.
Your black and white image of horror doesn't hold up either, especially the example you provided of Darth Vader, who is mainly an Intimidating character but not a Horror character, unlike the T-1000 who I will preemptively say right now, is indeed a thriller/horror character, because I know you'll try and use my words against me.
There are many moments throughout Terminator 2 that justify his inclusion amongst the ranks of other horror characters. One of the most iconic scenes that come to my mind, when the T-1000, completely made of liquid metal lays in wait flat against the tiled ground for a security guard to pass by suddenly materializes behind him and then kills him silently without a word by stabbing him through the head.
Or when the T-1000 takes the form of John Connor's mother (who has already been killed) and then stabs his father through his mouth with a blade the size of the length of an arm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovq9xOQNamk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT_u9Rurrqg
THIS IS UNDENIABLY HORROR.
Not "cop-out" or non-horror as you are suggesting, (your analogy to Star Wars is frankly insulting) these are bona-fide horrific scenes and images which rely on traditional elements of classic slasher horror amplify the very real danger that the T-1000 presents. If you're really going to try and convince me that this somehow isn't horror because it's not always "tagged" as horror then I'd really ask you what kind of criteria you're using to "tag" something as horror. Beyond a google search.
I'll wait.
But while I'm waiting, let me just send a link of a podcast, which focused on a psychoanalysis on "James Cameron’s action HORROR masterpiece, Terminator 2: Judgment Day."
TERMINATOR 2: JUDGEMENT DAY IS ACTION HORROR PERFECTION:
Come with me if you want to pod: Psychoanalysis takes comfort in the greatest action movie of all time. Stream the full episode now.Also this fun little article I found about how Robert Patrick's Performance as the T-1000 in Terminator 2 "will always be the scariest Terminator in film history" that I found along the way.
As Terminator: Dark Fate arrives, it's worth recognizing that Robert Patrick is still the most intimidating (and captivating) Terminator in franchise histo...Besides. All this talk about what is and is not horror, is all just a front / distraction from the real issue: which is that the T-1000 is a fundamentally more interesting and thought provoking addition to the Dead By Daylight cast of killers than the T-800. Which is something you haven't touched upon at all, which I consider more of an excuse than anything else.
Sorry, no guns allowed in DBD. We're not in Mortal Kombat or Deathgarden here. And Nemesis kinda already took the "fists" option as a primary weapon, so it seems to me you're kinda dead in the water here as far as ideas go.
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@RealKamakaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205793#Comment_2205793
I mean I watch The Walking Dead but it's not really scary is it. The scariest thing as of recently would be the Whisperers and they were more just unsettling and creepy rather than scary. Either way I don't think the Walkers or the antagonists such as Negan would fit in Dead By Daylight.
The way I see it, I think the Walking Dead is decent material for another paragraph DLC. Almost exactly like how Bill Overbeck was introduced by himself from Left 4 Dead, maybe they get a representative from the Walking Dead the same way.
Although in the grand scheme of things, I don't see a single license on this list being very high priority. I'm just saying out of the options provided- The Walking Dead seems the most realistic.
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@TerminatorGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239576#Comment_2239576
One thing the Resident Evil reveal should have taught us is that this company chooses the most iconic characters/killers from the specific franchise. If they want it, they'll make it fit.
There's a reason we use the word "negotiation" here.
But besides that, Terminator has already showed up in one of BHVR's properties and that completely flopped and received very little attention. I would expect that even the company at that point would be hesitant about tossing that character in the blender for round two.
Also it's not like every company operates the exact same way when it comes to making deals. You reference the unreleased Resident Evil chapter, but I can easily backtrack to something like the SAW chapter where the most iconic characters weren't selected for the chapter. Detective David Tapp is only present for a single movie of the 9 films in the franchise which is built on constant flashbacks of which Tapp does not appear in any significant way for a single one.
Amanda Young is more present as a reoccurring character, SAW II & III, but even she is overshadowed by Mark Hoffman who appears in SAW IV, V, VI, and 3D, and is generally regarded as the overall Secondary antagonist of the franchise while Amanda Young is considered a Tertiary antagonist. Not to mention, the villain the franchise itself is actually known for John Kramer / Jigsaw himself.
So no, we don't get "all-encompassing" rules to follow based off of the individual deals that BHVR makes with other companies.
@TerminatorGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2212483#Comment_2212483
If they strictly base it off the first Terminator movie, then it would still be a horror license. The first film is tagged as horror along with action/sci-fi.
As for this, I don't consider horror very binary. Especially in Dead By Daylight. It's a much broader genre than people give it credit for, and I think that so long as elements of horror are present in the license and it's a realistic, fitting, and worthy enough option, not just Joe Shmoe license from a, b, or c movie then I think that is good enough.
For example I wouldn't really consider Stranger Things a thoroughbred horror license, it very much leans in far more heavily into its sci-fi aspects than it does into its horror elements especially after the first season. Yet it's still in Dead By Daylight. Which is fine, so long as you accept that there's an acceptable gray area that Dead By Daylight is allowed to pull from.
Hence why I advocate for the T-1000 from T2. Which is tagged as a Thriller, which is only a step away from Horror and in the same Genus of films even if they aren't the exact same species. Thrillers, much like horrors, elicit feelings of suspense, anticipation, and anxiety, stimulating audiences in very similar if not the exact same ways as popular Horror films.
T2 specifically, not only knocks these categories perfectly on the head, but it also definitely has a very identifiable thematically horror concept behind it. A machine that cannot be destroyed through conventional means, which can transform into anybody and nearly anything, frequently turns it's arms into slashing instruments to slice and / or stab it's victims to death, and so much more, perfectly fits the bill.
There's so much more present to enjoy about and going for the T-1000 in Dead by Daylight than there is about the T-800. All the T-800 is, is a standard "killer robot" archetype and there's very little else that's truly unique about it. And I hate to put it this way, but Schwarzenegger fanboys can't just say "because it's Schwarzenegger it's better" that's just objectively not justifiable.
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@Trickstaaaaa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239495#Comment_2239495
Look I'm sure they wanna keep the game how it is. Since you got to understand only around 15% Of the base according to steam stats survivors have reached rank 10, so think about that means 85% of the players are casuals. And for killer that have reached rank 10 it's only 9%. So my point being they wanna keep the game as easy as possible since I'm pretty sure 90% of the player base is mostly survivor. Which is why they probably don't wanna add any slowdown mechanism to the gens, or any new game format. And honestly I don't blame them since most of the player base is casual. And lets be honest unless you are using the weakest killers maybe like trickster, and legion you can do alright without slowdown perks. Most can at least get a 2k with other killers that are midrange which is what I feel is balance. Don't go around expecting 4k in every game. Now for us non casual I guess this may feel like an issue since in red ranks survivors play more efficient than casuals, but for most of the base they don't.
That number is inflated by the way, as far as achievements go they aren't exactly the most reliable sources of statistical information. You look even the easiest achievements possible that everyone should have and even those have surprisingly low percentage of players that have achieved them. The achievement Zealous (in a public match, get more than 8k blood points in one scoring category [this is for either killer OR survivor]) is the most universally achieved achievement in Dead By Daylight and still only sits at a grand total of 51% of players have completed it. Every other achievement in the game has a lower global percentage of players who have completed it. Raising your rank for the first time is only at 48% boosting any perk to level 3 is only at 43% and so on and so forth.
Which basically amounts to, not everyone that is buying Dead By Daylight- is playing Dead By Daylight, amongst, likely, some other reasons. Thus you can see how and why these numbers are skewed.
Besides, we also know that rank is not exactly the best measure of player skill, and is more often than not just an indicator of how long you've been playing before rank reset. You can have players that are still garbage all the way up to rank 1 and you can have actually pretty decent players who have never broke rank 10, just because they don't play all that often, they have a job or school, or some other commitments that have kept them from playing Dead By Daylight on a regular basis so they don't really care about rank.
Besides, Scott usually is talking about the game at a standard-to-high-level of play. You don't need to be a "pro dbd gamer" to see why slowdown perks are some of if not the best perks in the game, which are prized for their consistency, for being universally usable on any killer, and for giving the killer the most precious resource they need during the match: which is time.
That being said, that is the way to talk about the game and its balance on a serious level anyway. The fact is, while we cannot disregard the new player experience (as that is critical to a game's growth and longevity) in discussions like this, you're not really drawing from the opinions of fresh players who don't have a lot of experience with the game. New players will have fresh perspectives that we want to hear from about other things, but something as technical as balancing 24 playable killers, their perks which can all be used in conjunction together, 27 playable survivors and their perks, 36 different map locations, items, add-ons, etc. is not something I would expect to get much insight out of.
Put another way, you can't tell me that "there isn't an issue with balancing here" when your overall point is "most of the playerbase is too casual to even CARE whether or not there is a problem here".
At that point, why are you (or the people you're trying to represent) talking about balance in the first place then?