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Seiko300

Seiko300

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  • @GentlemanFridge said:

    Although I'm wholly unfamiliar with ST, if Steve and Nancy supposedly escaped the Entity and go back to their roles in Hawkins, there's no way they don't suffer from severe PTSD.

    I'm guessing it's either non-canon entirely, or alternate timeline shenanigans.

    It's likely alternate timeline shenanigans.

    The Steve, Nancy, and Demogorgon that were all taken and kidnapped in the realm of the entity are likely from a different albeit nearly identical version of earth / parallel dimension.

    This means that they aren't the specific Steve and Nancy we know and are familiar with from the show- so that the events of Dead By Daylight are completely unrelated and do not affect the ongoing events of the show in any way. However, they are similar enough that basically everything we know and learn about Steve and Nancy from the show and the events that have occurred therein are applicable to the versions of them that we see in Dead By Daylight.


    The same is likely true for literally every single licensed character in Dead By Daylight. Not the exact identical version of Michael Myers, or Nemesis, so as to keep the chronology and timeline of these characters intact- but alternate reflections of them from parallel worlds that are so close it hardly matters.

  • @BlackMercury said:

    The entity makes them. The only real animal in the realms is Maurice, the clown's horse.

    @Gruo said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/279470/why-are-there-crows

    They are not normal crows, they are part of the Entity. Everything in the realm is part of the Entity.

    ^ These are correct answers.

    The crows are not actually alive- they are not flesh and blood creatures who were taken from their worlds, kidnapped and trapped in the cycle of torment in the realm of the entity like the survivors were. They are constructs created by the entity during the process of creating the realms, which themselves are imitations of places where great tragedies occurred or have some dark history related to them in some way.

    However the imitations themselves are not perfect recreations, hence why there are pallets and generators and things like that which occupy the trials. And this may explain why the crows act in an unnatural way, or relating to the malicious purpose of the trial itself, making perceptive killers aware of the location of survivors.

  • @HaunterofShadows said:

    So recently I've been seeing a lot of assym games that have been brought to my attention via my friend and this community...I'll be posting a ######### ton of links so get ready to watch some videos and make up your mind.

    Haunt Chaser which is like dbd combined with Phasmophobia and it is really good in my opinion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZUKwBao7Aw

    VHS which seems to be the most well known one of these forums: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EudLkQrn0qc

    Carnival Hunt which I'll let speak for itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viJsY4UjPQo

    The Ash vs. Evil Dead Game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALpBmM6EqBQ

    And this game called Charlie: The Legend which is basically a chucky assym game brought to my attention by @Kilmeran: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1312150/Charlie__The_Legend/ take a look and tell me what you think

    I haven't heard of any of these except for the Evil Dead game so thanks for putting them on my radar.

    I'll still be voting for Evil Dead though, just because it seems to be the greatest departure from Dead By Daylights core gameplay and that's what I think makes it look the most fun. All these other titles that have spawned in the wake of Dead By Daylight have so far only served to disappoint as poor imitations or Great Value versions of what makes DBD fun, interesting, and successful. I'm also looking forward to hearing more of Bruce Campbell voicing Ash since he's retired the character from the big screen and finally figuring out who's shittin' in the tall grass...

    Honorable mention though is Carnival Hunt which I see has no votes yet as of now. If I wasn't as interested in Evil Dead as I was I'd probably have voted for that instead, because that DEFINITELY seems like a wild out there concept. Such a unique art style and horrific Tim Burton-esque world that they set up in that trailer which certainly piques my interest.

    Thanks again for showing off these trailers, I'll be keeping a lookout for further updates on them.

  • Obligatory "the people that are making new killers aren't the same people killing bugs, get this through your thick fkn skulls"

    Concept artists, writers, sound designers, music people, animators, voice actors / actresses, the artists that make 3D models for characters / assets / maps, etc. These guys don't have a SINGLE THING to do with the the balance / maintenance of the game.

    These guys aren't the ones fixing the bugs you encounter in-game, so please tell me how you expect to give more time to the programmers / maintenance people to fix bugs by cutting down on the work artists have to do on the dev team.

    I've been waiting for 5 years for a real answer to this question because people continue to insist on repeating this same tired poll.

  • I had an idea a long time ago to combat gen-rushing in the early game around the time Scott made his video on the pre-game collapse. The idea went that after a generator has reached 50% it can no longer continue to be repaired until the corresponding mechanical part has been found on the map and inserted into the generator.

    Seven different parts would spawn across the map and they all would belong to an individual generator that is missing them, each part comes with a different challenge, puzzle, or mini-game to properly attach it onto a generator but they would all be more or less quick to do in maybe 10 seconds or so, perhaps less.

    All the parts spawn at the very beginning of the match, however if you were to look for them right away you'd essentially have to stumble upon them to find the right one. If you instead decide to repair a generator to 50% the aura of the correct part will light up wherever it is on the map and you can run across to fetch it and insert it into the generator to be fully repaired.

    Parts will never spawn close to their respective generator but it depends on RNG how far away they will spawn, whether that's all the way on the exact opposite side of the map, or in the middle of the map that's only maybe half that distance. But there would be a minimum number of meters in a radius directly in the vicinity of its generator that it physically cannot spawn in.


    I still really like this idea, but it's been awhile since I've written about it and the devs just haven't really expressed enough if any interest in adding any new primary or secondary objectives for survivors as far as the base game goes, unless it's related to a particular killers power or to totems. Much as I wish they would add something new.

  • @[Deleted User] said:

    Not very long lol

    Considering that a single generator takes 80 seconds to complete, you're talking about completing one and a half generators per chase.

    If all four survivors ran the killer for two minutes each it would only take about four chases to get all five generators done.


    Frankly I think that the expectations set within the poll options are unrealistic, and also also weirdly phrased. Average chases against who? There's like 25 killers in the game now and for the most part you can't run them every single one of them in the exact same way. What if I accidentally stepped in a bear trap and the chase ended in 5 seconds, does that negatively impact my average because of the few times that I've stepped in bear traps?

    Or what about god Spirits and Nurses? Are my chase skills reflected more poorly because I can't run a practically professional nurse for even 30 seconds let alone a minute, or the same for an equally experience spirit?

    Or just the sheer level of RNG that exists in Dead By Daylight- Scott Jund has a great video out there somewhere about why tournaments and competitive DBD don't really work and it's because of the great abundance of RNG. My average time chase time on Rotten Fields that I can run the killer is definitely not going to be the same as it would be on The Game. And even if you were comparing the same exact map because of how RNG works you could have one match that spawns with an extremely powerful window loop setup and jungle gyms that chain into each other extremely smoothly one match and then the next have less pallets cumulatively spawn, the position of where said pallets are could be in all the wrong places, different windows could be blocked and so on and so forth.

    And I could keep listing variables like this all day but my point here being is that there are quite frankly too many variables to account for for any player to give a serious and legitimate answer. The only possible way you could answer this in a legitimate way is if you recorded all your matches for a set number of days / weeks (it'd have to be a large amount of time to create a reliable sample size of data) watch all that footage back and then time your chases individually and calculate an average based on the average of all your data. (That is, you're creating an average out of an average, and not discriminating against any data whatsoever and basically making the assumption in your own experiment that it is equally easy to run a chase on different maps against different killers. Which is a bad assumption, it's obviously not true.) Everybody else here who is trying to pass off that they run average of 4 minute chases per game is very clearly just guesstimating at that point- and equally I can say I run 10 minute chases on average and ya'll couldn't say squat.


    Beyond this, just generally this kind of poll question I think promotes the notion that your value / worth as a survivor player is largely dependent on how long you can run a killer. Sure, that's part of your skill when you play as survivor, but to say its the sole focus and determining factor I think is generally a negative perspective as far as survivor gameplay goes.

    All around with these things in mind I'm just not a fan of this particular poll question and the proposed available answers. There's a lot more to the conversation than just "hey dude-bro, how long can you last in a chase?"

  • @Purgatorian said:

    It should interrupt but the progress made in solving it should not be reset when getting hit by a chain.

    Even this I can understand and would be okay with- the thought had crossed my mind, much like how survivors afflicted by the Deep Wound Status effect, partial mending progress is saved even if the action is interrupted. So this already exists in some form in Dead By Daylight's gameplay, I would be completely okay with this change.

    But something should be changed, it certainly cannot stay this way.

    @Gibberish said:

    Yes, so Survivors are encouraged to solve the box quickly instead of waiting for the last second to do it.

    If this really is the intention then Pinhead would never get to take advantage of the Chain Hunt aspect of his base kit. Neglecting any specific part of a killer's kit to the point that it can't be used properly even beyond The Cenobite specifically I think is generally an unhealthy perspective as far as gameplay goes.

    Seeing mechanics like Chain Hunt actually activate keeps the gameplay fresh and forces survivors to deal with different circumstances that compel them to adapt their gameplay. Running across the map from point A to B to get something done (which you can find parallels in all aspects of the game: removing a Reverse Bear Trap off your head, Cleansing yourself from The Plagues Sickness, Contamination from Nemesis, waking yourself up from Sleep against Freddy, etc. so on and so forth) is not new, nor is it fresh or innovative.

    So I would disagree- this isn't the incentive that I think we want survivors to be pushed toward because it only promotes some of the same stale gameplay we've already seen before.

  • Too early to tell, the only time I've played so far was with some friends who are more inexperienced and were lower rank ("grade" now) so we've got that disparity in our ranks making our matchmaking a little less stable than I think it might be if I was in solo queue.

    It doesn't seem totally awful right now but give the system awhile to adjust and I'm not super confident after it does as players we will like how it has adjusted and in what ways.


    Most importantly however, I can never wholeheartedly support SBMM in good faith until I know more specifics about how the system works. Just some broad criteria / examples of what the devs are considering a victory and how the system works and adjusts etc. The devs shroud a lot of the backstage going ons in DBD in secrecy but that element of secrecy around something as important as a matchmaking system I find is unacceptable. When it comes to matchmaking Transparency is absolutely paramount and critical to making sure the system is actually optimal for the playerbase and isn't somehow screwing things up.

  • The chapters that aren't already full chapters are the only ones that deserve a "Part Two" to them imo and it seems incredibly selfish to me to want extra content from chapters that already have a survivor and a killer, especially if there's even more than that. That's just me though.

    So really that narrows it down to

    • Ghostface
    • Hellraiser
    • Leatherface
    • Ash Vs. Evil Dead
    • L4D

    Of this list I think Ghostface / Scream is the most popular and it'd be amazing to see a Woodsboro High School Campus map and a survivor like Final Girl Sidney Prescott, deputy sheriff Dewey Riley, horror movie enthusiast & fanatic Randy Meeks, or news reporter Gale Weathers.

    Out of the four I really enjoy Randy Meek's character the best with the most personality- and I think it'd be an interesting dynamic to see a character from a universe where all these horror icons (Myers, Freddy, Pinhead, etc.) are all fictional and has previous knowledge of them, but is thrust into a realm where they are real and are forced to "follow the rules to survive a horror movie." Randy is the perfect character for that role as far as the survivor cast of Dead By Daylight goes.

  • @Marc_go_solo said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476112#Comment_2476112

    "There was an unspoken agreement" between Pyramid Head and the Entity. Surely, such a powerful parasite like the Entity needs no such thing. Besides, this Entity has difficulties enough - "it could not subdue her rage" says Rin's description. The Huntress temporarily loses her connection to the Entity with Beast Of Prey. Sorry, but if the Entity is this all-powerful being, such weaknesses to lesser beings should not happen.

    The Entity also shows itself to the observer as a Cthulu-like being. It wants the observer to see. So I wonder if the observer is vital to its survival in some way. If it wants to allow the observer to see this, it's portraying itself. Not sure why. Maybe what it shows isn't all truth. Maybe it needs people to think that so it feeds off the fear, pain and strong emotions humans emit.

    Ultimately, whatever you wish to think, the player interprets what they want from the game. In the information presented to me thus far, I don't even think the Entity is a top dog. More some parallel universe travelling parasite with weaknesses and hiccups. I'll stick with mine, because the information I take from it suggests it. But I am happy to read other takes.

    Cosmic horror and the "insignificance of man" bores me too much though. The only things we know are through our senses. Without an individual's sensory input, the universe doesn't appear to exist.

    Weaknesses yes, hiccups yes. But the ability to be able to be killed by a single- hell, even by multiple killers in the roster? I don't think so.

    If anything the way I think about it is it's like the Roman Empire- a vast realm which continues to invade and expand its territory. With so much power and might that it actually cannot keep up with the rate of expanse and is stretched thin in certain regions at its borders.

    In these parts that are "stretched thin" yes, I can absolutely agree the entity probably suffers from a few unintentional hiccups and errors. In our own human bodies mutations occur all the time in our genetic coding down to our DNA and no organism is built entirely perfect (and the entity itself is biological in nature). It is by no means a truly omnipotent and omnipresent being in the perfect sense of those words, however, despite these hiccups the entity is still far more powerful than any individual or multiple killers that it has retained in its realm.

    That is my point- that the "hiccups" in the grand scheme of things are largely completely meaningless, the mutations we experience in our bodies all the time? Most of them are completely harmless to our health- they don't actually do anything to us and its why we don't notice them.

    So what's really going to happen if Anna briefly loses connection with the entity? What happens when Rin Yamoaka is so filled with rage the entity can't absorb all that emotion much like how we as humans don't actually absorb 100% of the nutrients of the food we consume in own bodies? The answer to me is very clear, by and large: nothing.

    It's sort of like how you can subtract any integer (any regular whole number) from infinity. What's 1 minus infinity? 100 minus infinity? 1,000, 100,000, 100000000000000000000 minus infinity? I can keep adding zeros all day but it doesn't matter. Because the answer is still infinity. Likewise, any detriments the entity experiences to its own power by comparison to say Pyramid Head or anyone else for that matter is for the most part entirely insignificant.

    EDIT: So to summarize, no- the Entity itself is not Omnipotent in the perfect sense and definition. However, it is so very nearly close to omnipotence, that it would be more accurate to call it omnipotent than not. Or at the very least so close to omnipotence and so very powerful that to call it anything less than that would be a misrepresentation, and give people who have not read the lore an inaccurate image of the entity and what it is. That is my perspective.


    And the "unspoken agreement" likewise is equally meaningless to me- it does not make sense for any organism to expend energy unnecessarily. If the entity doesn't have to, it won't go out of its way to torment killers like Ghostface, Trickster, Pinhead, etc. Killers that are happy to enjoy the fruits and thrills of existence within the realm of the entity. Because again- the entity is not "deliberately evil" like the Bond Villain comparison I made earlier. It is closer akin to a "natural evil" sort of like the Shark in Jaws. It does what it needs to to survive and nothing more and it doesn't deliberately torture what it doesn't need to, only when extra incentive is necessary.

  • @Marc_go_solo said:

    Pyramid Head alone would not be able to defeat the Entity. It's what it is linked to that causes a problem, since Pyramid Head has links to a God in the Sun Goddess.

    Currently, Pyramid Head is a parasite feeding off a cosmic-sized parasite. But the Entity did have to make some sort of negotiation to bring Pyramid Head onboard, and the map for Midwich is held by great chains.

    This is most likely blasphemy to some, but in general I feel the Entity isn't as all-consuming as it likes to portray itself as.

    I feel like you're misrepresenting the entity here. It doesn't "negotiate" and it certainly doesn't "portray itself" as anything like some kind of Bond Villain creating a reputation. It doesn't have the higher consciousness to do these things and it operates as an animal does- almost entirely off instinct.

    There is no "grand master plan" or "evil plot" it is a primordial being said to be the original incarnation of all evils in every world. It feeds off the chaos and impossibly strong emotions that its presence creates and its far reaching cosmic influence is what gives it the reputation it has in the worlds that are even aware of its existence.

    Not because the entity was sitting in a chair petting a cat thinking "how to make myself look more evil today than I was yesterday...".

    @tuxedoseal said:

    so i was doing dbd talk with my friend, and he mentioned that pyramid head is possibly powerful enough to actually kill the entity. and i wasnt sure but i also didnt know if it was true since he knows alot about silent hill, where as i only know the characters (kind of). so i want to ask

    is it possible for pyramid head to kill the entity?

    It's a dumb theory. And it so goes that because the killers honor the entity and serve it by sacrificing survivors radiating with strong emotions of fear, guilt, frustration, hope, etc. on hooks that because killers like Myers or Pyramid Head can Mori survivors on their own without the use of an offering to please the entity that all of a sudden this somehow makes them more powerful than the entity.

    This logic just doesn't follow at all, and I frankly don't really care about the lore from their own source material (in regards to this particular question about power scaling vs. the entity). Regardless of their powerful ties and capabilities in their original movies / games, in Dead By Daylight the Entity is the top dog. Why? Because the devs say so- that's literally the only necessary reason why. It's their story, and they choose to write it as they wish. Whether that answer is unsatisfactory and isn't lore-friendly is frankly irrelevant.

    And I mean seriously, think about the natural implications of this if it were true and how ridiculous it would be. Let's say Pyramid Head is more powerful than the entity. Okay, Pyramid Head kills the entity.

    Welp. Looks like no more dead by daylight. Entity is now dead, so the rest of the game and everything that comes after in terms of content is completely non-canon because the entity was killed by triangle dome over there with a bloody rusty knife. Cause that makes sense. Yeah.


    If he's a mega Silent Hill fan I would think that provides a little bit of bias no?

  • Pinhead is an interesting and unique killer based off the films and a conceptual standpoint, in practice the devs laid the groundwork for an equally interesting and unique power. Albeit could use a few tweaks, and honestly I don't think they did him justice with the changes they talk about in response to the PTB (I hate that their response to environmental / collision interactions breaking the chains was just to spawn another chain quicker instead of just making it so the chains don't break through walls) but that doesn't mean they won't do him justice in the future.

    Should the devs be criticized for introducing new content that fails to live up to expectation? Whether that expectation is for a stronger power, or something that's more creative, better add-ons that are more distinct to an individual killer and their power, etc. Absolutely. If you think that any chapter has less good to offer than not, then by all means don't buy it.

    But personally, I think there's just enough good in the upcoming chapter that makes it worthwhile. They did a fantastic job with the various chain animations for Pinhead (although I would have liked to see him not so stiff in his movements and some more to his facial animations than just a single neutral expression), I like that they got the puzzle box and fit that into his power (again could use some tweaking), and overall I'm just really really happy that they finally released an icon of horror from the decades again. Too many people were getting far too invested in these video game horror licenses, and the last true horror icon that they got from this era was Ghostface and he relased in 2019 Two Entire Fkng Years Ago.

    So I've been waiting for awhile for something like this and I'm more or less happy with what we got, and I'm especially happy for the Hellraiser fans who have been waiting for a good long couple of years for this addition.

  • The fact that the responses are this split and mixed is a really bad thing for the future of SBMM- frankly it seems to me the overall community just doesn't have enough confidence in this system (including me) for it to to work and there are far too many uncertain variables about how it works to place that confidence in it.

    It sounds like a fantastic idea in theory, and I'm sure the people that like it are very much in favor of the concept rather than the actual in-practice mechanic itself.

    The devs insistent REFUSAL to be transparent about how even just the bare bones foundation / structure of the system works (not enough to game the system and rig your own hidden MMR ratings but just enough so that we know what is going on behind the scenes and whether or not the factors they've determined are accurate to how player skill is reviewed) is what pushes me over the edge and I find very frustrating. Saying "everything is fine! We like the results we got from recent previous tests and the direction this system is heading in" just frankly isn't enough for me.

    image.png


  • New and updated animations are always my favorite and most looked forward to part of the visual updates. In my eyes there are still MANY things that could use fresh updated animations, for example I spent a lot of time in the past pushing for separate animations for survivors when they are carrying items. It breaks the immersion I think when you're holding a toolbox and all of a sudden it disappears from your hand whenever you vault a window, drop a pallet, save another survivor, etc.

    Instead think of how cool it would be to have unique animations where your survivor drops the toolbox gently on the ground before beginning to open a chest, repairing a generator, or saving a survivor. Something that takes very little time so you can still do things quickly, but preserves the integrity that comes with realism instead of the very video game-y "toolbox just flat out disappears when performing any interaction.


    Long story short I'm game for any updated animations. They make things in the realm of the entity feel more lifelike and natural when you see a character performing different interactions in different ways rather than reusing the same animation for like five different things.

  • LOL 72% in the 1k to 3k category

    I didn't realize the forums had such a specific demographic of players.

    DBD players have a natural tendency to gravitate toward the forums after playing so long 😂

  • Who's shitting in the tall grass...

  • Getting tired of the grind for the archives as usual.

    Waiting for Pinhead to finally be released.

    I'm encountering an issue where I'm actually running out of Bloodpoint Bonus offerings on my survivor mains, so I've been outsourcing my grind onto other characters who have offerings on them (I've get everybody at lvl 50 at the very least) but it feels like those are gonna also run out soon since I put most of my bloodpoints toward prestiging different killers.

    Needless to say this isn't an issue on my killers, who all have literal bucketloads of offerings from the anniversary event and just in general. On Deathslinger alone because I was working to get him all perks at P3 I've got literally some 50 5th anniversary cakes. On Oni and Ghostface I've got around 20+ or 30+ ish and plenty of party streamers, survivor puddings, and 100% bonus offerings in a single category to last me for a good decent while on multiple killers.

    Also waiting for something significant to change in the game as well- like a crafting system or BP store where you can sell certain offerings / items / add-ons for BP at a reduced cost, the pre-game collapse, real rewards for prestiging survivors or raising your devotion level, and recently I've been dying for an update to our inventories so we can create pre-assembled loadouts or at least a search bar to find a specific perk because I'm so tired of flipping through the pages to find what I'm looking for nowadays. The most likely thing to look forward to is Boon Totems but even that we haven't heard anything new or significant. Also waiting on the next killer rework / update, and I'm still really looking forward to another update to the Clown because the fkn yellow Jarate is just garbage.


    So yeah... the intermediary periods between content updates of Dead By Daylight get a bit dull and stale.. it really doesn't take all that much to hold the interest of an audience, just a small balance change here and there would pique the interests of a lot of players. But sadly the devs insist on this extremely slow, cautious development cycle even for the smallest most minute of changes.

  • Breakable walls could be used for so much more than what they are. Scott had a great idea where survivors should be the ones spending time actually building breakable walls / barricades to slow down the killer. To do this the devs should be making a pass across all their maps, figure out which breakable walls are beneficial for the killer and which aren't (IE, more often than not it's better to keep the Breakable Walls on the sides of the Springwood's elementary school to prevent the creation of easy loop so this is an example of a killer sided breakable wall) and leave the ones that are killer sided up and then tear down the ones that are survivor sided so it's up to survivors to take the initiative and build them if they choose to.

    Beyond this, I'm sure there are plenty more interesting ways to work around Breakable walls than how they currently exist today.

  • @TacitusKilgore said:

    The entire point of the cages is they are an alternative method of advancing the killers objective, with the downside being they deprive you of hook related perks. However that goes for the survivors too, its a neutral gain because neither of you get to use your hook related perks. Thats the purpose of the cages, otherwise why not just teleport them onto a hook instead.

    ^ This.

    This poll question is a bit dumb because this was part of the original vision and direct intention of the cages from the devs. The specifically addressed this and the entire point is that it switches up how you play around "hooked state" survivors. Removing the options of getting saved off the shoulder (DS / flashlight / pallet stun / wiggle off), the option of camping / patrolling, and perks like We'll make it, BBQ, pop, etc.

    It might not seem all that different but mechanically speaking this makes for a very different experience after getting caught than normal. This was the purpose in the first place- so asking the community if they'd want to go back on that it is immaterial.

  • Shouldn't have put the Cenobite in the poll since not everybody has had a chance to play him / against him yet aside from those on PC who were able to and wanted to join the PTB.

    Not a big enough group of people to accurately include him in polls like this just yet. Especially since how a killer appears in their PTB is not always very representative in how they appear when finally introduced on the live servers. Ghostface, Blight, Spirit, etc. all were very different in their PTB versions and may as well have been different killers based solely on the experience of playing them.

  • @Dr_Loomis said:

    At least he looks authentic. The rest are all crumby. But ALL are vastly overpriced.

    Vastly overpriced is basically an understatement- legendary skins are literally highway robbery considering for the longest time they're no different in quality from very rare skins we've seen for 5 years now. Only recently did they start making a change for the better by changing the icons for legendary survivors, writing up a lore backstory, creating unique animations, and changing the voices of the characters so they don't sound the same as their original counterparts. But as far as I'm aware they haven't done this for all the legendary skins that exist in game, the earlier ones like Lisa, Cybil, and Jonathan all share their voices with Cheryl / Steve which is frankly outrageous.

    What really frustrates me is the killer legendary skins, which have WAY more wiggle room for unique changes and improvements. But they don't, Minotaur-Oni still sounds like a rage filled samurai, his power icon is still the yamoaka oni mask, and most egregiously of all the Greek Minotaur still wields a Japanese Kanabo for some stupid reason instead of say a Greek Labrys which is more iconic to the island of Crete and the original legend of the Minotaur.

    Legendary skins are too disappointing to support, except for maybe the most recent ones like Chris which I do think go all the way and have their own distinct voices if I am aware correctly.

    All that being said it still hardly makes sense, when a brand new character like Ash Williams who comes with perks and everything costs essentially 5$. And the price of entire base game when it's not on sale is 20$.

  • First off- Prestiging 20 characters is borderline unrealistic. By my thoughts there's a really tiny percent of the playerbase that has that many characters prestiged- but that's based off my personal experience with about 1.5k hours and I don't even have 20 characters prestiged. Although yes, it's possible: possible for streamers who play every single day for a living and / or people who have an unbelievably incredible amount of time on their hands.

    Second off, that's far too small scale both in the amount of effort and the payoff for it- prestiging 20 characters for a single skin? I don't think there's a skin in the entire existing game that looks good enough to say "I would grind the living hell out of Dead By Daylight for that one skin" that's just not worth it. And again to reemphasize, the sheer amount of time to prestige that many characters would honestly not be worth ANY reward save for maybe literal money in my bank account.

    Backtracking a little bit,

    If you're talking rewards after you P3 any single character, I would say absolutely hell yes. But I'm not a big fan of a cosmetic reward, and I'm even less of a fan of the dumb charms (let's be real- nobody actually looks at these for more than 10 seconds). Prestige 3 awards should be far more significant, and I highly suggest that they do something to reduce the grind. Reducing the bloodpoint costs for most items, add-ons, and offerings, I think is an incredibly strong incentive to P3 your characters, this way you can more easily keep these characters stocked up without all the serious grind- because frankly there's not a huge reason currently to continue investing in your characters that you have at P3 all perks.

    That or maybe apply a base bloodpoint bonus booster to your characters that are at P3, it doesn't have to be a lot but just enough that you noticeably earn more bloodpoints when you're playing a character that you put in the time and effort to get them to P3.

    And for that matter Devotion also needs rewards put into it as well, it's always been an underwhelming issue in DBD that they have all these progression systems but they don't properly reward players after reaching "the end" of that progression. Nobody really wears the bloody clothes (although they look a lot better now after the visual update), the increased chance of rarer nodes in your bloodwebs is practically insignificant, and you don't get anything special after grinding through all 100 levels of Devotion to raise your devotion level. Which mind you is the one grind you can't speed up: there are no offerings to speed up your Devotion XP gain, there are no challenges to complete which will earn you devotion XP, nothing. It's a true slog and you get absolutely nothing out of it except maybe bragging rights- but when was the last time you heard anyone go "Ha! You haven't even reached a single devotion level!? I'm devotion 6 btw 😏".

    Seriously, Devotion isn't even visible to any other players it's literally only for the player themselves as a visual reminder to see how much time they've sunk into DBD for nothing. There's not even a bloody ######### achievement for hitting higher devotion levels.


    And you'd think after 5 years the developers would find some way to reward their long-term, most dedicated and committed base of players that have taken the time and effort (and probably along the way spent plenty of money) to earn all of these things, you'd think they'd have found a way to reward these players by now and show some appreciation for their community. Nope. ugh.

  • @Sackboy123 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2435205#Comment_2435205

    Leon/Chris and Jill/Claire have different voices so it's a WIP for others to follow that path

    I got Jonathon during the sale, weird having Steve's voice, hopefully he can get his own before the licence expires

    Thanks for clearing this up. It's absolutely horrendous that they thought this was something they could get away with when first releasing legendary cosmetics- and until they do a pass over all of them they just aren't worth purchasing.

    I can live without never getting Jonathan. It's up to the devs to make the content they produce worthwhile and I'm not gonna sit here "hoping" that one day the benevolent devs will decide to do right by the player. Either they make quality content or they don't, and I'm not going to waste a single dollar on anything that isn't all that it should be. Personally I would encourage everybody else to do the same- but to each their own, if you like Jonathan as a character it's not like I can stop you from endorsing something you personally enjoy. Personally I don't enjoy what is essentially a scam- but that's just me.

  • @[Deleted User] said:

    Even in SWF.

    But it's part of my generic build. So not always.

    I recently found out this is surprisingly true actually. I got two friends into the game somewhat recently and they're still pretty new- (but not total greenies anymore) and I've found it's actually pretty valuable to have Kindred on myself, or have them run Kindred if they have it (often they don't- because they're new) in SWF. Despite being in a call together- lapses in communication by virtue of them being newer players can happen, and Kindred helps to create a more concrete image for them about the state of the match and where everybody is.

    Also, I'm not gonna lie- it gets exhausting always being the guy making call outs all the time and always thinking during the match about what they should be doing. Basically thinking for the three of us instead of just for me as I normally would in solo q.

    But I still feel guilty about running it or asking them to run it because really we shouldn't need it and it takes up a perk slo they could use for something else. They're just not at that point yet where they can SWF properly without it I guess.

  • People always talk about Sidney Prescott because she's the main character, and I'm always just over here in a corner because I genuinely would rather have Randy Meeks than her just because I find him so much more of an interesting, enthusiastic, and overall likable character in the films. 😣😞

    The heart of the films imo- who was the character that really laid the groundwork for the Meta-Commentary Scream was known for, and the dude who had the iconic dialogue everybody remembers that introduced "the rules" of horror and "how to survive a horror movie." That's an interesting dynamic and something I'd love to see in Dead By Daylight as far as characters go.

    I mean, Laurie Strode already fills the character archetype roster of a final girl- whereas I wouldn't say that we have a full blooded "Geek" archetype character. I say it's high time to introduce one.

    image.png

    Dwight / Claudette might be the closest here, but Dwight is literally described as average or less than average in all ways (physically, intellectually, etc.) and completely unnoticeable, which doesn't sound like an accurate description of a Geek- and Claudette is just more of a botany nerd than a geek. Also Claudette gets a lot of heat for having cosmetics that are flashy streetwear that don't really mesh all that well with her supposed introverted lore description.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvLpbHKV1_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWeaYCoh1qk


    Randy aside, I'm just a big fan of Scream overall- so I suppose I'd go with any true Scream Rep. over the other licenses. Be it Randy, Sidney, Dewey, Gale, or anybody else.

  • Yes. "Religiously" is the perfect word to use, it is probably my most go to survivor perk when playing solo.

    However, it's not entirely necessary- it's a gigantic help in solo q but if I'm looking to do a very specific build, try something new or niche, or just do a daily or an archive challenge or something (for example to do the "vault a pallet / window 5 times in a single match while in chase" archive challenge I created a build out of Windows of Opportunity, Quick and Quiet, Resilience, and Spine Chill, so I didn't have room for Kindred) then of course I'm going to swap it out. As I would with any other perk.

    If I'm on a losing streak and getting frustrated, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm at some point just going flip and decide to run a pure-blooded meta build out of Adrenaline, Dead Hard / Sprint Burst / Balanced Landing, Decisive Strike, and Spine Chill / Borrowed Time / Unbreakable or something.

    But most of the time, if I'm just chilling in Solo Q, I'm going to be running a standard self-serving build that helps keep me alive and makes me a decently well rounded solo player that has information, and self sustain. Kindred, Self Care, Adrenaline, and Spine Chill would be pretty standard.


    But of course being real- I'm playing survivors that aren't my main all the time and in which case I'm going to be using less optimal perks, or just perks I wouldn't normally use. In which case, everything I've just said gets thrown out the window and I just work with what I've got- but if I've got Kindred, then you can bet I'm likely to fit it in there.

  • I enjoy the idea of some survivors survivors being corrupted and twisted enough to the point of being bent to serve the entity's will after endless torture in the perpetual cycle of death of Dead By Daylight- but I'm not a huge fan of killers shedding their servitude and searching for their own escape, betraying their brethren and being hunted down because of it.

    Which, on an off-note, I can't help but wonder if that says something about me as a person- that I might be more interested in stories about people and their descent into madness, villainy, vanity, or otherwise evil, than I am in stories about the potential redemption of evil or morally corrupt people people and their personal hopes to seek absolution, clemency, and general atonement. 🤔

    That aside, I guess I'd say The Legion, for the reasons stated within the Poll Option- I think it might be a bit less likely that Frank and Julie would become survivors, but because Joey and Susie really started off as bystanders almost, and really suffered from the sin of omission (allowing their petty criminal activities to continue and escalate to murder) at least at the beginning before succumbing to peer pressure, it seems to me that they have the best chance at a second chance and reject the opportunity of remaining and accomplice to the violent urges of the Legion.

    Runner up would be The Plague, since her sin was one of Blind Devotion, thoughtlessly putting herself and those in her care that followed her needlessly at risk of sickness and death. She again continues to make the same mistake, and sees in the Entity perhaps a way to salvation and deliverance if only she should she remain devoted enough. If the Plague were able to look beyond this and see the Entity as the original manifestation of evil that it is, which twists and corrupts, perhaps she would reject it completely and look both inward and outward for her own escape.


    Side note: Although this is technically a poll, I would consider this thread a more lore-focused thing and personally I would post questions and topics like this in that section of the forums. Polls can be created in any section of the forums and aren't limited to the polls section itself, but again I'm not saying this is in the wrong place, it's not technically, I just think it would be better under Lore. You might find more people willing to engage discussion in deeper detail over there than you would in just the general polls section where people talk about a greater variety of other things, whether that's in-game features, balance, future content, etc.

    Just my thoughts though.

  • @Dito175 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455576#Comment_2455576

    Omg i completely agree! I do believe that some killers do things that they are not supposed to do like Myers and ph killing without a mori, but for Micharl I see in a way that he does it just because he wants and he will be severely punished either way, for ph I think that is his nature and it's kinda hard to behave in another way. Either way, this thing about the entity respecting/ fearing a killer always seemed pretty stupid to me, the entity is a GOD while Myers is a human with endurance and super strength. I think these opinions are probably biased since a lot of people live this characters, but it's not realistic.

    Truer words were never spoken

  • @Dito175 said:

    I don't think he is actually sending them to hell, I think they get sent to somewhere inside the entity, get tortured for a while and send back to the campfire.

    The simplest answer and honestly probably the correct one ^

    It's not that he's sending them outside of Entity to be tortured in his own personal domain- it's likely that the Entity has already recreated The Hell that Pinhead is familiar with and imagines, and that's where the survivors get sent.


    And on a slightly separate note: I truly don't buy the "X, Y, Z, killers are powerful and pose problems to the entity!" the whole thing about Pyramid Head being able to kill on his own making him more powerful in order to resist the entity I think is pure hogwash. We all know why it's a thing, and that's because it's cool to have built-in Mori's in the kits or add-ons of killers or whoever. The Spectacle is captures the attention of its audience and it switches up the gameplay. There doesn't have to be a lore reason to this, and even if there was it could be as simple as "The Entity respects X, Y, Z killers to such a degree it allows these individuals a little more freedom than the others" and that's it.

    So all this "oh, Pyramid Head can mini mori in his ability, Myers can mori because of an add-on without an offering, Pinhead can send survivors down to hell outside the realm of teh entity! These killers are more powerful than it!" is just a load of crap imo. In Dead By Daylight's universe, the entity is quite literally one of if not the original sources of evil and I doubt if it uses these killers as personal minions, or even simply as "partners" that it would be in a position to be overwhelmed or outsmarted or whatever.

    Just me though. I'm not a big fan of the "x, y, z killers are more powerful than the entity" theory.

  • @MeltingPenguins said:

    If the devs were to reskin hawkins to make it into a map for one of the existing original killers, what would you prefer they do with it?

    I'm not gonna lie- you came up with ideas that I hadn't even possibly pondered in a million years and I love every single poll option here- absolutely welcome additions in order to preserve the layout of the map and the gameplay that is so specific to Hawkins.

    After thinking about all of them though, I really do think the idea of the Catacombs of Paris fits MORE than perfectly here. I can imagine torches lining up against the walls highlighting skulls and various bones and different parts of skeletons inlaid into the walls. The square rooms themselves within the map could be translated extremely well as just more rooms and places to hold the overflowing amount of skulls and bones, or could even be tombs that are lined with coffins along the side.

    It's also even MORE perfect because Hawkin's is one of the few maps that introduced a brand new animal (or construction / recreation of an animal depending on how you see the lore) into the realms of the Entity: The Rats. The Catacombs of Paris are a PERFECT place to preserve the rats that are found in Hawkins, Paris was hit particularly hard by "the Black Death" (the Bubonic Plague) and the cause of it was none other than the rats (technically fleas that the rats carried around). Although the Twins themselves are a few hundred years removed from this period of time, rats are still very iconic and recognizable creatures when it comes to places like catacombs and of course specifically in relation to Paris France.

    A little bit of my motivation to pick this option over the others also comes because I just recently finished A Plague Tale: Innocence, which heavily features France and these types of settings during that time period of 1348 smack dab during the black plague.

    image.png image.png image.png

    I'm also thinking of AC Unity and it's Dead Kings expansion DLC as well, and thinking about how unique the Catacombs areas were for certain missions.

    image.png image.png


    These enclosed, medieval subterranean areas and settings simply seem like the perfect place to breathe new life in Hawkins Underground Lab Complex after it's gone.


    But again, I would so very happily accept nearly any one of the poll options and I love how well tailored and thoughtful they are in terms of the stories of the killers.

    • The Hellshire Penitentiary (prison) sounds great
    • A secret 19th century lab that belonged to Talbot Grimes sounds like it really preserves the mystery of the place- in the 80s people were always wondering what went on inside the Lab and what experiments the government was doing so a pretty good way to preserve that theme and air of mystery.
    • I've always wanted to see more floors from the Lery's memorial Institute, and I've always had a headcanon that what we see in game is just the ground floor, and I've always wondered what the 2nd floor, third floor, or even the basement of such a facility might look like. And I have no doubt they would also have "off campus" places as well, maybe the Mortuary is a completely separate location where bodies are shipped.
    • I like the idea of the abandoned mine for many of the same reasons I like the idea of the catacombs, the aesthetic would just be different and instead of a place of burial and that reeks of an overwhelming amount of death, you could tailor the map to be a bit more of that scary "being trapped in an abandoned mineshaft" kind of aesthetic, with little railways going through the map, mine-carts that carry coal, ore, and other things and all that.
    • The hardware store made me laugh and honestly, I would be totally open to it.

    The only one I'm a bit on the fence about is the music studio / concert venue- just because I've always imagined if they ever revisited the Trickster to give him a new map, it'd be on the Streets of Korea so to speak. An urban cityscape map that we've never seen anything of it's kind before in Dead By Daylight, because that's how the lobby looked at the time of All Kill's chapter release. And if Hawkins was going to be re-dressed up as anything, I'm not sure how I'd feel about it being a place of Dressing rooms, costumes, props, and make-up, sound / recording equipment, etc. When there are just so many other ideas that seem a lot more fitting to me given the map layout, what it used to be, and what it should be turned into.

    Of course I would still take it and it'd probably be pretty cool / decent , but I really do just adore most of the other options in the poll and many of them are well past "decent" they sound goddamn amazing.

  • I think the overall concept is great- the idea itself could probably use a bit of work- but a huge conversation within the community is providing more rewards / incentives to prestige. Many players don't prestige simply because they don't see the worth or value in resetting all your perks & general experience just for a single piece of bloody clothing (which the prestige looks way better after the visual update for characters) and an extremely minor boost in RNG as to the rarity of which items / offerings appear in your bloodweb.

    Making it so that survivors or killers who have made it all the way to P3 no longer have to pay bloodpoints for a select number of items / offerings is a massive incentive. It's the kind of huge incentive that would leave absolutely zero doubt as to whether or not players want to prestige and the question itself would be a relic of the past.


    And anecdotally, I absolutely agree that after you make it to P3 all perks, you're a bit more hesitant to sink your bloodpoints into a bloodweb for a character you've got everything for. I main Ace, I've got almost every single cosmetic outfit for him except for 3 of them that are all locked behind paywalls, but because I play him so often I have literally almost 0 BP bonus offerings on him. So if I want to use offerings to reduce the grind, I have to play characters other than my main and start using their offerings (I've got everyone at least to level 50). It's been awhile since I've last played Ace and its a feelsbadman moment because I've put so much time into him and he's my favorite character, but I've simply run out of offerings. I put a million into him a few days ago but even BP bonus offerings aren't guaranteed and I still don't have all that many, not enough to last me more than day's worth of matches probably.


    It's an idea that sounds crazy at first but the more you think about it the more it actually doesn't seem all that bad. I think if anything, either there's a restriction on the kind of items / offerings you're getting "for free" (getting to P3 itself isn't what I'd call free but okay) like you wouldn't get ultra rares like BNP or the Odd Bulb. But you'd get access maybe to all common and uncommon items / offerings.

    Another idea I just had is maybe to tremendously reduce the bloodpoint cost of all items / offerings after you hit P3. so instead of 3K, 4K, 5K, etc. Bloodpoint costs for common items would be reduced down to 1K and escalate from there, so 1K, 2K, 3K, all the way to 5K for ultra rares. Hell, you could reduce it even further by going up in increments of 500 BP instead of 1K BP. Making the maximum 3K.

    Of course this WOULDN'T affect perks who would keep their current BP costs, and having to return to P3 characters to get new perks on them as they are created and added to the game I think is still a reasonable enough ask. Getting rid of perk tiers might make this even better.

    And to anybody who might still be skeptical, I must remind that this is all because the player has reached the end-goal for that character, the grind for the game isn't over once you P3 a character. You've got 27 total survivors and 25 total killers and you're bound to want to prestige a few others after you Prestige a single one, and beyond this players still have the archives to grind through and every tome lasts slightly upward of 2 months every few weeks. But once you've hit prestige 3 with somebody, that should be the end-goal rather than maintaining a character and their inventory. Keeping a character be plentifully stocked is not a proper goal to work toward, and that's not a true proper incentive, as a player that doesn't make me want to play Dead By Daylight, it only adds to a needlessly long grind- it becomes tiresome and tedious. Especially when you start to have other characters at Prestige 3 and have to maintain them all on top of working toward prestiging new characters.


    But overall, I like this concept a lot. This is the kind of big incentive that would really fill that vacuum that players ask for where they've got no reason to prestige at the same time this also tackles the problem of a ridiculously insane grind. Allowing players to rest easy and take their mind off maintaining any number of survivors that have made it to the end-goal of being P3-All Perks. Hitting two birds with one stone so to speak.

  • @Mozzie said:

    I don't like the concept of stretching DBD into Franchises that have had projects in the ESRB TEEN ratings. Sends the wrong message. Also, Dracula and all the old Universal classic monsters are royalty free, I believe. If they wanted Dracula in the game they sure as hell wouldn't pay for it.

    This ^^

    I think it would be far more interesting to see Dead By Daylight's iteration of the classic character that really leans much more heavily into darker horror elements of his story. They've already proven time and time again they can create compelling OC's and they've even proved they can take a recognizable and widely known character and create their own version of their story that sticks to the original core elements that made them who they are while also introducing new, fitting, and otherwise interesting elements to their characters like they did for Ghostface and I can only assume exactly like what they would do for Dracula.

  • At this point it seems no matter what the devs decide to go with they somehow always ######### up their matchmaking / ranks to some level or degree.

    The next thing I guess they can try is Scott's suggestion of making ranks HIGHER than Rank 1. Creating ranks lower than 20 is just going to stretch out the number of players scattered amongst the lower ranks- but creating ranks higher than rank 1 with much more strict conditions in order to keep those ranks will really cull the fields of players so to speak and weed out those that belong and don't.

    It's really difficult to say what they should do beyond this. My mind's kinda blank after it turned out MMR was kinda sorta a bust depending on your experience. Personally, I didn't have the greatest of experience so I'm hoping they shift away from it rather than double down on it.

  • Monstrous Shrine is an entirely outdated perk from the very ground up and if anyone was going to say otherwise I would respond by telling them they're oblivious.

    That being said it's unavoidable- these perks all the way from 2016 that have seen so few if any changes at all to how they work (cough insidious cough) need flat out reworks in order to be properly reintroduced into the regular use of the broader pool of perks among the playerbase. Already just with the most recent chapter 21 PTB Pinhead and the Hellraiser chapter seem to be introducing a brand new type of perk which is just a more interesting and viable version of monstrous shrine called "Scourge Hook:". The parentheses leading many people to believe this is something the devs are interested in trying as a new kind of perk, much like how "Hex:" always appears on every Hex Perk in an incredibly similar fashion.

    Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain is like a modern version of Monstrous Shrine, it affects multiple hooks that are scattered across the map so you actually get the chance to hook somebody on of them rather than localizing them all in some random obscure corner of the map or in the central building which might be far away from the action, it affects survivors after they've been unhooked by slowing down that particular survivor's heal and then afterward slowing down their healing and repairing action speeds until they're injured again.

    It's far more interesting an idea, it seems to have some useful utility though I haven't heard much about it from people playing on the PTB, and overall is just in a much better place than Monstrous Shrine (even if it in itself isn't going to be meta-changing). Because of course it is, it's being released in 2021 and Monstrous Shrine was a perk created for a Dead By Daylight in 2016, which may as well have been a completely separate game balanced around different ideas and central gameplay aspects that are entirely unrelated and disconnected with how we play the game today.


    Monstrous Shrine, Insidious, etc. these perks need full blown overhauls. While there's some very niche value to them in very specific builds or in the context of certain strategies, or particular circumstances, (or just to meme with) but as far as the overall pace of the game goes in it's broad strokes- these archaic perks are entirely obsolete.

    Saying a simple numbers tweak and slapping on a few extra status effects on that bad boy is going to all of a sudden skyrocket its usage by the greater playerbase- is quite frankly comical.

  • Velma is definitely a Claudette type beat, I've got no idea why Feng Min would even be an option that makes no sense.

    Also Fred is probably a David King kinda guy. Maybe. Felix might work too.

    @Mat_Sella said:

    I didnt know Captain Cutler's name, but I was totally like: "the Scuba Diving suit dude for sure."

    Scuba Diving Suit killer (a la Big Daddy (Bioshock) / Captain Cutler) is an original killer chapter concept that I unironically really want to see- and I'd hate it to be wasted on just a skin. So much potential for that to be part of a nautical horror themed chapter.

  • I'm with Scott Jund when he says that Pinhead is very much not in a good place right now- but the good thing is that he can very easily be improved to quickly be a skillful and solid B tier killer with a few good changes. Mostly to deal with the chains and making them the central focus of his kit but even the Puzzle Box I can see some clear ways with which to make that mechanic better.

    1. First off it's either one or the other: The chains need to either slow the survivors more significantly, or the chains themselves need to be more difficult to break. But either way there needs to be a greater reward for using his power and landing a chain because it actually isn't as easy to hit as you would think and missing the chain itself puts you so far behind in a chase as Pinhead. Because the survivor gains running distance during the time that you're throwing out the little portal, the time it takes for you to orient your own camera once you're "inside of it" and then the time it takes for the chain to reach out to it's maximum distance and be a confirmed miss.
      1. Without this greater reward Pinhead is really only subjecting himself to these great delays in mid chase, and you're really putting your own neck on the line for very little incentive. Too often is the slow not enough to stop a survivor from making another revolution around a loop and making it to a window or pallet, literally any environmental interaction breaks any and all chains completely and immediately (as in if you walk around a tree, rock, wall, anything- including if pinhead himself walks through the chain for some reason??) and survivors aren't punished at all after for this unless you're running add-ons that injure healthy survivors or deep wound injured survivors. EDIT: this is actually an extremely important change that should definitely be higher on the list of priorities, Pinhead chains should not immediately break on environmental contact or with Pinhead himself it's part of making the chains more difficult to break but this I believe is just a change that should be made either way. Without this it can be incredibly easy to break the chains immediately just around the corner of a loop or something- and especially when you're on maps that are cluttered with objects all over.
      2. The devs could also opt to create some kind of cancel mechanic mid chain attack, where if you've clearly missed you don't have to suffer the extra 10 or whatever meters the chain has left in it's trajectory, which only serves as precious extra seconds for a survivor to put distance between themselves and pinhead.
      3. To compromise for this, and to make survivor players more happy about the state of pinhead as a more balanced killer, I would be entirely willing to tone down the strength or annoyance level of chain hunt itself if his base power is made more powerful. This is just a standard balancing act, chain hunt shouldn't be what you're relying on for your downs but it is just a nice added effect if you can get it to happen during a trial. I don't think this is necessarily a necessary change, I think survivors have a pretty decent counterplay to his base summons of pain power and have ample opportunity to juke out the chains or hide behind some object to avoid them. I am simply including this in as a clause on the off-chance people are less willing to buff his base summons of pain power if Chain Hunt is kept in it's current state which seems to be the more powerful threatening part of his power since it operates as a passive hindrance in his chases that survivors are forced to be mindful of on top of normal chase strategies. Maybe the chains of chain hunt can be more easily broken than the Summons of Pain chains or something, or they don't slow you down as much who knows. Again I don't think it's necessary but I would put it there on the table just in case so Pinhead's power is at the very least allocated in the right areas. in the fun and interesting areas, and not in a dumb passive ultimate ability.
    2. As for the Puzzle Box though it shouldn't be the main reason people want to play Pinhead, I don't believe this part of his power should be neglected either and effort should be put in to make sure it can at least still carry it's own weight. As of right now I think it's far too easy for survivors to find the puzzle box and far too difficult for Pinhead to come across it. All survivors share the same progress bar to the chain hunt and very frequently I've seen matches where survivors will just constantly as soon as they get the opportunity to safely do the puzzle box without much threat of Pinhead teleporting to them they do it, and the progress bar never makes it even to like halfway.
      1. Instead the Puzzle Box should spawn as per normal but the aura of the Puzzle box is not highlighted to survivors until they've reached maybe 50% progress so the threat and likelihood of Chain Hunt happening might be slightly more present in your average match. Of course the survivors can equally come across the box by luck as well like Pinhead currently can- but this way it's not so easy for them to run across half the map, pick it up, and do it immediately.
      2. At the same time there should be a greater punishment for holding on to the Box for longer periods of time- literally draw pieces of paper out of the hat of status effects and anything would do. Whether you become exhausted, or incapacitated or something else doesn't matter, but as it stands the Oblivious thing and your average chain doesn't seem to be doing much. Perhaps a survivor physically cannot hold on to the Puzzle box for longer time periods. The Box itself could teleport out of the hands of the survivor after a certain time has elapsed, or Pinhead gets the prompt to teleport to said survivor holding the Box anyway regardless of the fact of whether they opened it or not- just because they held on to it. (Of course I guess they'd have to change the voice line for this interaction "You Opened the Box... I came" since a survivor wouldn't have opened the box).
      3. A very solid example of counterplay to Pinhead's Puzzle Box teleport (which I assume everyone will catch on sooner or later which is why I have no qualms about revealing this "secret" here on the forums) is to simply wait until he is occupied with another interaction, the most obvious: wait until he picks someone up and then solve it while he is carrying them to a hook. This I think is a debilitating counter as far as his Lament Configuration goes and is an overlooked aspect of Pinhead's power on the part of the developers- sort of like how they completely missed Lockers countered the twins during their PTB. With 12 hooks total the survivors can very easily never give pinhead the opportunity to teleport to any of them if they are patient enough to wait until someone is being carried to the hook. If all four survivors are knowledgeable enough, Pinhead will never be able to take advantage of the Puzzle Box teleport which makes this part of his power effectively useless seeing as he would never really have a solid opportunity to use it- it's as if it was never in his kit in the first place. The solution to this is quite simple however: increase the time window for Pinhead's teleport. In doing so you would give Pinhead the time to carry a survivor to a hook and still teleport to whoever opened the Puzzle Box immediately after. Don't increase the time to ridiculous lengths and give Pinhead enough time to make it all the way to the basement kind of time- but enough that he can still on average make it to the closest hook and still use the teleport in time immediately after the hook.
      4. Make the Puzzle box more difficult. This is both a balance thing, and a fun factor thing, it's no secret that the community (especially the long lasting community) are not impressed by interactions that are easily wrapped up by simple skillchecks. At this point in Dead By Daylight's history we're all looking for something of more weight and significance to sink our teeth into. Tru3ta1ent had a pretty decent suggestion and said to make the puzzle box skillchecks identical to the new yellow glyph skillchecks that appeared in the most recent tome. I would say make them a little easier than those skillchecks (you have to hit like 5 for the yellow glyph to be completed and I would reduce it for the puzzle box to maybe 3 instead) for the purposes of the puzzle box but either way it's a solid example of a fresh "challenge" without having to render something absolutely completely new like an actual legitimate puzzle. But this all falls under the same umbrella of just generally the puzzle box currently being too quick, simple, and easy for survivors to solve and finding different ways to make this mechanic have more depth and complexity to it would be welcome changes to this part of the power.

    I'm not saying all of these changes should go through but these are some suggestions I've thought about or have heard from other people to make him a much better killer.

    He has a very cool concept and foundation to his power and something everybody can appreciate- I think that's something that's actually more important than having a powerful ability straight out of the gate in fact: is to have a solid power with a good foundation. the only thing left is to match the strength to the uniqueness of the concept itself which combines a little bit of Nurse and Deathslinger, and a dash of Clown.

    But as it stands without any proper significant changes he's going to be at or worse than the Clown, because the Clown has the same chase tool shtick- to slow down survivors, the only difference it's much more difficult to miss and he isn't penalized as harshly in his chases if he does miss compared to how Pinhead currently appears in the PTB. And being comparable to Clown whether that's just above, just below, or exactly where clown himself is in terms of strength, is just not a good place for any killer to be as far as the roster goes.

  • Kind of an unfair pairing since you kinda pitted a killer that has an advantage around mid ranges, to a creature that kills its prey up close as a feral animal would.

    I think the Deathslinger could have honestly won against a decent chunk of the 1 v 1's in Dead By Daylight but against the Demogorgon I don't think so. Makes me wonder about the thought process behind why these characters had to go against each other (if there was a thought process and it wasn't selected by random).

  • I'm ngl, I've been Axe Throwing a few times and it's actually extremely satisfying (if you've never been I totally recommend [it's kinda expensive at most places though]). To be super proficient and precise in your throws and be able to throw from really far away would actually be really fkn cool. Irl I'm only "okay" at it I guess you could say.

  • Most of these ideas are just too circumstantial to be of any good use, 25% of an item per hook for a total of 75%? doubles the duration of exhausted effects from like 40 seconds to 80 but Exhaustion is reset after you're hooked so they still get use out of whatever perk, also though they're some of the best out there not everybody uses exhaustion perks. Frankly I'm just not a huge fan of perks that are made for the sole purpose of affecting other perks, so count me out for the hex totem thing too.

    However, a slowdown perk that suddenly blocks generators that you run to for a limited time? Imagine getting hooked and not realizing this was in play- you run over with your buddy to help him finish a generator that's at 85% and then it's suddenly blocked off. That actually sounds incredible.

    It'd probably work based on a timer- for 40 seconds after you're hooked any generator you approach will immediately be blocked for 20 seconds or something. Or maybe it's based on the number of generators you approach so the first 3 generators you approach will be blocked off for 30 seconds.

    Either way I see lots of potential for a perk like this that can totally stand on its own in any build.

  • Pinhead has been a longtime request from the community, ever since Myers came out in 2016 I remember people going down the list of licensed killers they wanted to see come next if the devs decided to continue to add them (we didn't know if it was just going to be Myers or if more were coming down the line, but people were really excited about the possibility). People were talking about Freddy, Leatherface, Jason, Ghostface, and of course though he was never one of the biggest most talked about licenses, somewhere down that list Pinhead was definitely consistently brought up every now and again since 2016. As far as the really popular licenses go- Pinhead was almost like an underdog compared to the popularity of Freddy, Jason, Ghostface, Leatherface etc. but he was still up there amongst those names and more that were mentioned.


    Hellraiser fans have been waiting for 5 years for Pinhead. Ever since icons from horror films from the decades started making their way in, Hellraiser has been on the radar as a potential inclusion for quite a long time now.

    Fnaf, along with other video game license requests like Evil Within, Outlast, Resident Evil, didn't really gain a lot of traction until last year in 2020 when BHVR worked a deal with Konami for the Silent Hill Chapter. It's been a single year and Fnaf fans are already throwing incredible tantrums all over the internet. With little regard or respect for the fans of other licenses who have been waiting for far longer- and you've got people like Paulie Esther (God Bless the Wholesome man himself) who call this "passion" and says that the devs should really take a harder second look at fnaf because of how loud and dedicated this vocal minority is.

    As much as I respect Paulie Esther I don't call that passion, I call it childish. Fnaf fans froth at the mouth when the license is mentioned as a possibility to get into Dead By Daylight and it's frankly a gigantic turn off. Of all the licenses and communities that surround them out there- Fnaf is one that I continuously hold in lower and lower esteem. IMO Fnaf and its community doesn't deserve any special treatment or empathy because of how crazed they are for their own fandom.

    Originally I was never really against Fnaf's inclusion- I just felt there was a large disconnect between the gameplay of Fnaf and Dead By Daylight that makes it difficult to translate one over to the other in a faithful way. Not to mention it's not a Slasher, and though springtrap is the most decrepit and dilapidated of the animatronics he's still got rounded fingers. But nowadays I'm so tired of the cyclical conversation about springtrap and fnaf, there's that whole controversy with Scott Cawthon that I don't even want to dive into as well.

    It seems to me like it's just better to move on, there are plenty of spectacular licenses that aren't surrounded by such thick layers of heat, tension, and controversy. There is not a single other license that is more heavily disputed about whether it deserves to be in the game in the first place or not and that alone consistently makes me lean more toward most other licenses out there.

  • I think most people understand that a total deletion of the map is still an utter loss- regardless of your personal opinion on it. People like Scott Jund who are actually personally delighted that the map is going aren't actually as many as you'd think (from what I've seen). Dead By Daylight's core essence is about it's variety, it's about the amalgamation of stories and the cornucopia of horror settings that come together to create its own horror that's unique in its presentation. Even though I might not like every map I can tolerate playing on any of them simply because of the change in layout, scenery, atmosphere, tone, etc.

    Which is a surprisingly mature perspective from the Dead By Daylight Community when you think about it- that even for a somewhat controversial map like Hawkins, people are still more somber than not about its removal, if not for themselves then for each other and those who did enjoy the map.

  • I don't know I really just didn't care all that much for Johnathan while I watched Stranger Things- good guy I guess but not a super compelling character. Unlike Steve who changes and grows throughout the show and is placed in many different roles, and narrative functions from his very beginning as the arrogant Jock, to a humble and kind boyfriend, he was even an underdog at one point (because he "never won a real fight" up to a point in the show), surrogate older brother, "babysitter" this dude has it all and is extremely well written.

    Johnathan is like- the awkward, weird but nice, shy, quiet guy? Which is supposed to automatically entitle him to the audiences affections / sympathy? Dunno I just don't vibe with that.

    I might reconsider down the line, like a last minute "ah ######### it" on the 16th of november before it all goes away- but as it stands I really don't have plans to get Johnathan Byers. Not because it doesn't look like Johnathan or something wrong with how he appears in game- it's just I'm not attached enough to the character from the show.


    There's also the issue that I'm still boycotting legendary skins in their entirety simply because they aren't worth the egregious amount that they ask people to pay for them. 10$ for a regular skin is already a reach to begin with but 15$ is just outrageous when the base game costs 20$ and a DLC chapter costs either 7 (and introduces actual BRAND NEW characters) or even 12$ for three characters. The fact that the devs can't even muster up the effort to change how the powers of the killers appear to reflect the change to their character (Why does Minotaur Oni wield a Japanese Kanabo?) or the voices of these characters (still rage filled samurai battle cry instead of animalistic guttural minotaur roar) is a gigantic turn off because in all reality these characters are no different in quality from Very Rare skins. Yet they ask for 5$ more.

    I know they made a little effort in this department- Survivor icons now show the face of the legendary character, they have their own little lore bio, and they even have unique animations in the lobby and such (Lisa doesn't stand the same way Cheryl does and Chris doesn't stand the same way Leon does) but to my knowledge they still haven't gone all the way and the voices of these characters (probably the single most noticeable feature about them since matches are filled with screaming and whimpering and cries of pain) haven't been changed. Steve and Johnathan still have the same atrociously high pitched opera singer voice, Leon / Chris, Cheryl / Lisa, etc. Although if this isn't the case somebody correct me and let me know but I'm fairly certain it is (even if it wasn't it still wouldn't change everything, since I know for a fact that they haven't supported Killer Legendary skins in the same way: killer power icon doesn't change with the legendary skin, the lore, power visuals / aesthetic, etc. so on and so forth).

  • I selected yes because I enjoy all kinds of map variety- much as I hate going on the same map twice or three times in a row. So if any map (even the ones I don't like or that are undoubtedly garbage) went away and suddenly disappeared, I would be a little disappointed.

    However, I am completely in the dark about why Hawkins is going to be unavailable- what happened?


    EDIT: I saw the post and read it and I'm incredibly disappointed that Stranger Things is going to be leaving us so abruptly with very little warning to the community. I had no idea Dead By Daylight was signing these (what I can only assume are) temporary licensing deals and it's so crazy that Stranger Things content is no longer going to be supported in DBD (beyond I guess perhaps bug fixes or balance changes). By far one of the most well rounded and beloved licenses to come to the game.

    That being said, I still don't fully understand the why this is happening and if anybody has any further information I'd certainly like to hear it.

    For anybody that still hasn't seen / read the official post, this is it:

    After an exciting two years in the Fog with Nancy, Steve, and The Demogorgon, Nov. 17, 2021, will mark the last occasion for fans to purchase Stranger Things content in Dead by Daylight.


  • Tony Todd / Clive Barker > Scott Cawthon

    Besides, Candyman is just a more well written because he manages to be a sympathetic villain- and the moral intricacies that surround his tragic backstory make him a more interesting character and a more compelling fit within the roster of slasher villains we see in DBD as the devs continue seeking to add unique stories. William Afton is a guy who worked at a Chuck-E-Cheese and decided to murder kids one day?

  • @NoOneKnowsNova said:

    You can't send someone insane if they already have no sanity left.

    This would render doc useless.

    I'm not buying the whole "well wraith kills people so he's obviously insane" shtick because then that could just be applied to every killer across the board. That's just not how insanity works- it's a broader term but "usually reserved for describing severe conditions involving psychotic-like breaks with reality."

    You can be a murderer and still be completely in your right mind and know exactly what it is that you're doing. People that are mentally unhinged may be more prone to violence, but there's a very large gap between unhinged and certifiably insane. Truly, I don't think we have a single "Insane Killer" on the entire roster and we've yet to see one. Perhaps you could say the Doctor himself is insane but if he was performing valuable research for the CIA it's difficult to say whether or not his sense of reality was intact, if it wasn't then I doubt he'd be learning anything valuable. However there is the line in his lore: "Carter's experimental information extraction had turned to horrific and bizarre torture" but again it's difficult to say whether this is could be Carter working to uncover secrets of the human mind by pushing well past scientific ethical boundaries or if he's well and truly insane and he only "thinks" he's still doing valuable research and in reality he's making false connections in a broken reality- not real science anymore but simply human cruelty.

    Aside from that the closest things we have to insane I would say are Ghostface and the Trickster- not because they've got broken perceptions of reality but because they are very obvious psychopaths. Charming and likable on the outside and pretend to care about others, but are completely cold-hearted and fail to form genuine attachments, opting to have completely shallow and fake relationships in order to maintain the facade of a normal life to cover their criminal activities.

    But they definitely understand what they're doing- both killers have a twisted sense of pleasure and gratification from their violent acts and a sense of accomplishment or achievement for their respective "performances". (Ghostface performs for newspapers, the cops and local authorities, and enjoys the attention of the horrified public eye. Whereas Trickster performs for an oblivious loving audience / adoring fans and the undivided attention of his victims who are subject to his torture- the contributors to his "art").

    EDIT: The Clown also- at least for a brief period also falls under a similar form of psychopathy. Using the circus to escape his crimes and surrounded by a close-knit community he was forced to learn to socialize: "He donned a new personality like a disguise, quickly becoming known as charming and helpful, and was welcomed into his new family." However this doesn't last and he falls back into bad habits and violent tendencies and the Clown unlike Trickster and Ghostface drops the charade: "He removed the costume less and less, shedding his old personality with it, fully embracing the clown, his true self." Perhaps making him closer to the behavior of a sociopath- who unlike Psychopaths who are more manipulative, detached, and meticulous in their planning: "Sociopaths experience anxiety and find rage far harder to control. They may act without thought and, as a result, they may have a harder time blending in. Inconsistencies between their words and their lives may be easier to see." which aligns perfectly with how the Clown eventually became complacent and sloppy.

    Every other killer has some kind of motivation for why they kill: Ambition (Blight), Rage (Oni), Vengeance (Deathslinger), Fear (Leatherface), "Justice" (Pyramid Head - manifestation of guilt), Devotion (Plague), etc. so on and so forth so I'm just not sure that this necessarily means that they wouldn't be susceptible to The Doctor's madness.

    NOTE: Yes I am entirely aware that I totally went off on a tangent- however, seeing as I wasted literally an entire hour on this train of thought with a bunch of research and lore digging and everything I'm still posting this comment. Even if it is completely unrelated, meant absolutely nothing, or is completely wrong, at this point too much time has been invested to just delete it.

    TL;DR Killers are not completely insane, though likely many if not all are somewhere on the spectrum of mentally unhinged. Ergo Doctor's madness still works.


    The Doctor's madness aside, he's still imo one of the more powerful killers in the entity's realm electricity is a high key busted supernatural power to have. And outside of the game from a lore standpoint- in a brawl with other killers he could up the voltage for more painful and devastating damage. At the current level of intensity it's enough to paralyze the survivors motor functions for a brief moment- long enough that they can't even raise their arms to drop a pallet or move their legs to vault a window. A similar effect could be easily reproduced and used against the killers (even if a greater voltage was necessary) and I could totally see the Doctor shocking one of the other killers right before they were to land an attacking blow. Also we see the Doctor applying a high enough voltage to kill a survivor directly to their brains during his mori- so there's also that.

    And physically I don't think there's a lot of question regarding The Doctor's capabilities, dude literally tore the sleeves off his lab coat to show off those guns attached to his torso. I'm not saying he's the strongest killer out there- but it definitely doesn't seem like he's lacking either and I would say he's on the physically stronger end.

  • Just bring no mither ez lol

  • This is literally the nature of power creep, it's an unfortunate fact of every multiplayer game that's ever existed and new characters will almost always operate on an upward trend that sees the average kit of your average new character to be more and more bulked up. In Dead By Daylight- on average we are and will continue to see killers that have more complicated and elaborate powers because of power creep.

    It's not unusual anymore to see killers with secondary or tertiary powers, as well as other abilities just smushed into their kits. It's not enough for The Trickster to have throwing knives, he needs an ultimate ability which is Main Event, it's not enough for Nemesis to have his evolving tentacle whip- he needs AI Zombies as well for information, map pressure, and some unique chase plays. (I'm not saying these examples are overpowered, or that secondary abilities in general are a negative thing per se, just as a fact of life of the trends of continued development.)

    I'm not even entirely sure there's anything you can do to stop power creep- it's just the unfortunate way of multiplayer games. I think the only way to fight it is to start getting really creative with the new characters you introduce and basically shift the status quo every single time you introduce a new character by creating new and interesting mechanics or reinvesting in old mechanics that haven't seen much use in the game.

    Just a quick look around community killer concept ideas, there really is no shortage of cool and unique ideas for killers. A few of some ideas just tossed around and some of my own:

    • I remember one about a killer that was a Fireman with a fireaxe that could leave trails of flammable gas in his wake and then ignite it to create trails of fire that would cause survivors to get "burned" which was a brand new status effect.
    • I had this idea initially as a ghostface power (this was before he was released, and long before demogorgon came out) of a killer that could hide in lockers where his terror radius would be reduced to 0 and teleport between them and would be the only killer to have access to a third person camera while he hid in a locker. Fast exiting from the locker would give you bonus speed almost like Pig ambush and slow exiting the locker would provide the undetectable status effect for some 10 or 20 seconds.
    • A concept I created for Jason was loosely inspired by the Lake Mist power he has in Mortal Kombat- Jason could essentially cover parts of the map in a thick fog that would reduce visibility for survivors to a couple of meters in front of them, survivors in the fog also suffer from the oblivious + blindness status effects. Jason would also have a more powerful version of this ability that operates on cooldown which covers the entire map in a thick fog and all survivors become oblivious and blind. During this time Jason can pull up a HUD which projects a detailed image of whatever map he's on and he can select and teleport at will to any part of the map- exactly like he does in F13 the game.
    • There's always been the lingering suggestion to have a killer with a shapeshifting ability that can transform to appear as one of the survivors in the match. Most likely for / from a chapter on John Carpenter's The Thing- I know there are some concerns about whether or not this would actually work and so I would just say this could be a secondary power to help the killer, but the tool that gives them the most power would be whatever could be stuck on them as a primary ability. Whether that's a chase tool or map mobility or whatever.
    • Another idea I had was for a killer called "The Tinkerer" or something and would be invested in creating all kinds of Traps all over the map. Traps that could be strapped to the sides of Generators, on pallets or windows, the sides of walls, on trees, etc. He would have access to different kinds of traps that do different things- like revealing a survivors aura for a few seconds, hindering them, mangling them, traps that deal a state of damage or break a survivor or whatever. The traps themselves would introduce brand new unique puzzles and challenges that a survivor needs to solve / complete in order to get by the trap. A full departure from the classic "skillcheck interactions" that Dead By Daylight routinely just throws at survivors.
    • Before the Hag / Demogorgon came out I remember seeing a super cool killer concept years ago all the way back in the first year of Dead By Daylight- of a killer Scarecrow that could create copies of itself and set up a few Scarecrows around the map. With add-ons you could change how the power worked but essentially the Scarecrow would crumble and fall apart and then possess whichever Scarecrow it had previously set up. Depending on Add-ons the Scarecrows would give off their own Terror Radiuses or be completely silent, and you wouldn't be able to tell if the Scarecrow was hiding in a possessed clone or not.
    • Under a thread talking about the possibility of A Quiet Place in DBD (not very likely but hey interesting discussion) there was some conversation about introducing a killer that actually couldn't see- or at least couldn't see by conventional means. Instead they'd have to use some kind of echolocation or something and they would be able to see the outlines of their immediate surroundings. To compensate for this, they could be the fastest, most agile + mobile killer out of the entire roster. Definitely one of the weirder ideas, but given the context that's a good thing and it's definitely interesting to think about.

    I'm literally just rapid firing random killer power ideas, not to say that they're good or bad / complete or incomplete or anything like that, just to prove that there are plenty of unique ideas out there that haven't found their way into DBD yet elaborate or not. However, the devs seem pretty insistent with the last few chapters in just giving us a killer that has a powerful chase tool and lacks in utility or map pressure or mobility or anything else. Not exactly what I'd call innovative or fresh by any stretch of the imagination.

    In the end I think you can have killers with elaborate powers that are still fun, and killers with simple powers that aren't fun (IE Spirit) so its not even about elaborate vs. simple it's about being creative and testing out brand new ideas that really shake up the game. To answer the poll's question directly: I guess you could say I don't really have a preference between elaborate and simple killer powers since both have the potential to be thoughtful or thoughtless.


    I don't even know what this comment is- I feel like I talked about 3 different ideas that all kind of loosely relate but I really just ended up rambling. If you got anything out of my ramblings or could make sense of what I was getting at then I'll call that a win and call it a day. Hell, I'm calling it a day either way.

  • People are gonna be that way either way just because it's the internet. So long as people aren't making credible threats to your or someone else's personal safety, it's all just talk and shouldn't be given much thought. In serious cases of harassment, that's up to the mods and staff to make sure things don't escalate that far- but petty insults or heated argument / debate isn't anything to worry about.

    The internet is always going to be the internet. It is what it is.

  • @[Deleted User] said:

    I tag those who I always see in the best section of the forums...

    🦎THE POLLS SECTION🦎

    @Seiko300🦎

    @SebaOutbreak🦎

    @CheeseAnton🦎

    @MadLordJack🦎

    @CamoRanger🦎

    @Aven_Fallen🦎

    @Taiga🦎

    @Gibberish🦎

    @QwQw🦎

    (pls dont kill me if i forgot anyone im scared)

    I do have to agree, the polls section is the best section of the forums. I appreciate the mention!


    And speaking of polls @HaunterofShadows has taken the section by storm with the consistent licensed chapter polls that have a good but not overwhelming variety of poll options. I always enjoy seeing the responses to how people would react and providing answers of my own.

  • The one that held Kirsty Cotton in place was The Chatterer right? I think he looks the most unique out of the other ones aside from Pinhead himself.

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