Seiko300
Seiko300
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Slightly unrelated to the topic, Steam's policy for refunds is that you must have less than 2 hours of playtime and you must have requested your refund less than two weeks after your purchase. If you fulfill both of these prerequisites, you're basically guaranteed a refund.
Considering I bought the game 5 years ago in 2016 and have racked up an insane amount of hours since then... I think that's beyond the scope of my capability.
But at the very least I can still say in five years I don't think BHVR has ever ######### up this bad before.
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Five years of playing DBD, five years that I've stuck with BHVR through thick and thin, I've seen them make some pretty dumb decisions but this... this takes the cake.
I'll continue to play the game, mostly in honor of everything they've achieved up until this point and the good they've done with the game to bring original and licensed stories together in this cornucopia of horror-
But I won't look at BHVR the same way again. Which is what makes me really sad. That they've permanently tarnished their image and their reputation all in one fell swoop.
It's that whole "I'm not angry, just [incredibly] disappointed" sentiment which is going around the community. Rarely have I said this so sincerely and unironically:
"My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined."
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Bubba is my personal curse. Regardless of how good or bad he is I seem to just have some bad luck in games around a leatherface
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The NFT thing is actually really, really, really bad. At the very least you could make some semblance of an argument for balance changes for Hillbilly, Spirit, etc. but getting in bed with a shady NFT business is really kind of indefensible.
As someone who usually is on BHVRs side more often than not- I can safely say I won't be this time around.
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I haven't seen them as I haven't had the time to get in game, and I probably won't have that time for the next few days, could somebody post a screenshot?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568451#Comment_2568451
Fair do's, I get wordy too sometimes.
Regardless: I'm not buying that. If we're taking the term "horror game" seriously enough to suggest that DBD is lacking in elements of that genre, then we need to understand what a horror game is beyond simply having spooky elements. Fallout 4 has spooky elements but calling it a horror game would be laughable, and it's the exact same way (albeit to a lesser degree) with Dead By Daylight.
There are two outcomes here: The term "horror game" is so broad that it's meaningless, or it's a term that has mechanical weight more than it has aesthetic weight. If it's the former- sure, DBD is a horror game, but everyone saying it should be scarier/should go back to being scary are still wrong. If it's the latter, then there's no way that DBD counts. It's an action cat-and-mouse game with the occasional (often accidental) jumpscare- if it ever counted, it definitely doesn't now.
(I don't much care what articles talking about a game say about its genre, by the way, I've seen far too many refer to Borderlands as "post-apocalyptic" for that.)
Honestly- if you are of the opinion that any game which uses horror iconography is a horror game, I'm totally willing to let that be the end of the conversation. No sense arguing over a simple difference in definition, after all.
First off, I think you can be broad and still retain meaning. I hardly think you yourself would consider games like Stardew Valley, Cuphead, or Civ. 6 as horror games would you?
Secondly, I'd very much like to hear what it is that Dead by Daylight is mechanically "lacking" that doesn't make it a horror game. Since we've already covered that Dead By Daylight does indeed fulfill your aesthetic requirement. As you yourself put it, it is: "a game that utilises the horror genre's aesthetics and atmosphere" so we've already established that Dead by Daylight generates a mood indicative of the horror genre. It surrounds itself in a thick air of familiar horror tropes and features of horror storytelling. The design of characters and environments is undoubtedly grim and grotesque, blood is splattered across the walls and floors of many maps, bodies can be found, and the mutilated corpses of pigs and cattle can be seen on horrid display.
In fact I would argue that the dark and foreboding tone of horror that is so intrinsic to dead by daylight is an essential and critical aspect of nearly all horror media, from film and TV to video games. Can you provide me examples of anything in the horror genre that doesn't have these qualities? Though to what level and degree they can be found might be left for debate and speculation, they don't all have to be so intense, I don't doubt that they do exist in almost all forms of horror- a commonality that pervades and unites the entire genre.
So what perhaps, pray tell, could be so fundamentally lacking on Dead by Daylight's part- as to overlook the entirety of Dead by Daylight's utter climate, and the spirit of the game itself?
I would argue Dead by Daylight's core Cat and Mouse gameplay loop is indeed a staple of the horror genre. In games like Alien: Isolation, Outlast, Amnesia: The Dark Descent, all feature overpowering antagonists who cannot be stopped, and an average but otherwise resourceful protagonist whose survival is dependent almost entirely on their wits.
This is certainly true of the famous slasher films that Dead by Daylight largely takes inspiration from. Friday the 13th, A Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween, all of these feature characters who are forced into supernatural situations where their only choice for most of the film is to run and hide while accomplishing small tasks such as the retrieval of an item or the discovery of some information that is key to their escape. It isn't until the climax of those films that the characters discover a way to fight back, such as pulling Freddy from his all powerful state in the dream world and into the real world where he can be injured and killed (for a time).
And though Jump Scares are often seen as cheap nowadays, it's important to note their history and relevance within the horror genre. It's intended to scare an audience by surprising them with an abrupt change in events, usually occurring with a loud, startling, and frightening sound. And has even been described as "one of the most basic building blocks of horror" which is fitting given that it's usage has been seen since the 60s with the release of Hitchock's Psycho which holds in it the infamous shower kill seen.
It is by no means accidental that the jumpscare is included in Dead by Daylight: whether that's the sudden arrival of a Michael Myers just around the corner or a Ghostface stabbing you in the back, the unexpected appearance of a Hag erupting from the muddy ground beneath you, or the unanticipated emergence of a Hatchet flying through the air from between stalks of corn which lands squarely between your shoulders. The Jump Scare is very much intentionally used for a very obvious and purposeful aim in mind.
As well, regardless of your opinion on the articles themselves it serves to prove a point: the opinion is a widespread belief amongst the greater gaming community and beyond (a population much greater than the Dead by Daylight playerbase alone). And though you might dislike the articles, I assume you've got no problem with the user defined tags on steam, or the other basic results one can easily find on wikipedia or google, seeing meet them with any criticism or indeed mention them at all.
If I used any platforms other than steam, such as the Windows Store, Google Stadia, hell even mobile on IOS/Android- I would have no doubt that I would be able to find the same information as well.
It seems to me that you've got an uphill battle to prove your point. Within each of my three posts thus far I believe I've contributed different and valuable insights for why Dead by Daylight would be considered a horror game. The content in your posts so far have been very sparse and vague.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2566474#Comment_2566474
Hi there! Weird wordwall to make at me because it seems like you've got the spirit and are just confused on a few specific words being used, but I'll clarify all the same: Dead By Daylight is a game that utilises the horror genre's aesthetics and atmosphere, but it is not a horror game in the sense of being a game with mechanics designed to scare the player. Amnesia is a horror game, Alien Isolation is a horror game, and Dead By Daylight is a cat-and-mouse asymmetric game that uses horror aesthetics.
There is no responsibility for DBD to be scary, because it's not a horror game. It's the difference between watching A Nightmare On Elm Street, and seeing someone dressed as Freddy Krueger for a costume party.
Hope that clears up your confusion and prevents further wordwalls on unsuspecting posters!
I generally just type wordwalls. That's not specific to you, so I apologize if I appeared to come at you aggressive out of the blue (although what may explain this is that I'm tired of this idea roaming around the playerbase- I don't take stock in it myself).
The idea you propose is not a novel one, and I assert that this is a distinction without a difference. A game which employs the aesthetics and atmosphere of the horror genre is as much a horror game as a game which intentionally attempts to scare its audience. Though I don't necessarily need to prove this idea however, since I would argue that Dead by Daylight does make sincere attempts to intentionally scare its audience which is what defines it as a horror game. Using the example you provided, Alien: Isolation shares many of its foundational principles that make up its core gameplay, mechanics, and general concept, with Dead by Daylight.
See if this sounds familiar:
- You play as a young, clever, and plucky survivor stuck in an isolated and unfamiliar place with a single, deadly killer. To escape, you must use your knowledge of engineering to repair various mechanical instruments to fix your abandoned and neglected surroundings, as you slowly uncover the story behind the circumstances of your entrapment, all the while evading the relentless pursuit of an overpowering monster that uses superior speed, strength, and its own malicious cunning to hunt you down. With few options to defend yourself, your primary methods to accomplish your goals and survive are to run and hide using lockers and other scattered objects to conceal your presence. With the help of some strangers and a few friends, you're able to fend off the violent assault long enough to survive, only to discover that danger still lurks around the next corner.
And though I don't particularly find this to be the end all be all of discussion, it is worth noting in order supplement my point that Dead by Daylight by all accounts is categorized as a Horror Title. Horror is first the top user defined tag on Steam followed by Survival Horror as a close second, according to wikipedia it is a Horror game, according to a basic google search- it is a horror game. IGN, Gamespot, Polygon, and so on, all refer to Dead by Daylight as a Horror Game. According to PC Gamer: "Dead By Daylight remains a horror game and there is still a paranoid thrill to skulking around the marshlands and repairing generators, but the more you learn its systems, the less scary it gets."
I am not new to this conversation, and I find most of the arguments that Dead By Daylight isn't a horror game entirely laughable. Although I do like the points you bring up and the analogy you make, I find the overall case itself none the more compelling.
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@jesterkind said:
Commenting because this poll lacks nuance- the answer is "no and that's not a problem", it's not a horror game and has no responsibility or expectation to be scary.
The game is horror and it's a ludicrously foolish idea drummed up by certain members in the community that Dead By Daylight somehow isn't a horror game.
There is nothing NOT horror about being chased by a serial killer. There is nothing not horror about being placed in a powerless position where you must run for your life, or die. There is nothing not horror about the inclusion of prominent villains from well established films and franchises within the horror genre like Michael Myers, Freddy Krueger, Leatherface, and more. There is nothing not horror about having a hook thrust through your shoulder as you are left to hang to be sacrificed to an ancient Godlike being that is the source of evil. There is nothing not horror about the lovecraftian entity: a primordial interdimensional being which preys on the hopes, fears, and powerful emotions of entire worlds plunging them into madness, chaos, and anarchy.
It is undeniable that Dead By Daylight is a horror game. There is zero reason to see it as anything else, and the arguments for why it might not be horror are entirely frail and anecdotal at best.
Now is Dead By Daylight a scary horror game? Did you ever even stop to consider that not everything that is horror is scary? That the horror genre is not always exclusively synonymous with the word "scary"?
To be fair what is and what is not scary is entirely subjective in the first place. I myself am absolutely terrified of snakes- I cannot stand them, regardless of shape, size, color, all snakes are scary to me- and even if I see the tiniest of garden snakes slithering through the grass I will bolt in the opposite direction. In the few instances where I've approached snakes: I tense up, my hands shake, my heart races, my breathing quickens, and I am entirely on edge and most definitely uncomfortable. Even watching snakes in nature documentaries or on youtube makes me uneasy.
That being said, I recognize that some people like and even adore snakes- they keep them as pets and close companions. I even have friends that own snakes, although I've never set foot in the house of anybody that owns a snake, friend or otherwise.
Dead By Daylight is no less the same way, and I understand people who aren't scared of Dead by Daylight- I myself am not particularly afraid either. Although I remember fondly of a time of when I was scared of the game. I remember scariest match I ever played was the very first match I played against Michael Myers- who was the first killer with a reduced terror radius and could just run up to you and slash at you with a kitchen knife without a word or warning.
But it's important to remember that after hundreds much less thousands of hours of anything- obviously you're not going to be scared anymore. Veterans of the game are more interested in the strategy and the mechanics of the game than we are in being scared all the time. That's fine well and good, but equally that doesn't make it any less outrageous to say that those horror elements flat out don't exist. You tell me the next time you've got somebody two feet taller than you chasing you in the isolated night with a machete or an axe that you aren't scared.
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Since this poll is basically a repost of the one you posted on Oct. 4, I'll just copy and paste my answer. An identical (or nearly identical) poll deserves an identical answer
"With each chapter / content release I become more and more desperate for some loadout organization Quality of Life changes to the point that I am slowly bringing it up more and more often, and voting for it more and more often.
It's getting really tiresome to have to sift through seven going on eight pages of perks. It's high time Dead By Daylight actually commit to the simple changes the game needs, allowing players to:
- Save custom loadouts
- Name custom loadouts
- Search bar to find specific perks by name
- Search for specific perks by key words
- Option to search through preset organization categories
- IE: Healing related perks, Aura reveal related perks, Boon / Hex: Perks, Exhaustion related perks, active perks (Dead Hard, Diversion,) etc.
- Save custom organization categories
- IE: meme category, off-meta, meta, chase-heavy, stealth heavy, Niche / Circumstantial, solo, with friends, competitive, casual, etc."
- Save custom loadouts
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@glitchboi said:
Going for a no-vote because although it's true that she's genuinely unbalanced, a good Nurse is quite an uncommon sight, and Nurse seems to be necessary when it comes to high level play.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that we need Nurse in this game, I guess.
This is what I was thinking before voting. However, I just decided to fold and say Nurse is balanced precisely because of all the mechanical skill, knowledge, and practice that's required to play Nurse at that high high level.
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"Nerfing" it to that extent is the wrong way to go about it. Having the chains not target the person holding the box at all is far too gratuitous an ask and would make it far too easy to hold the box hostage by one survivor.
However, I can empathize with the notion that it is incredibly poor design that the chains stop survivors from solving the box- putting them in a hellishly annoying cycle of trying solve it, getting interrupted, and having to start all over. This is not a "skill" that survivors should have to learn, and desperately search for "the window" of opportunity to solve the box between chains. If the devs wanted the solving the lament configuration to be a skillful act they wouldn't have made it a regular skillecheck action. Instead they'd have been creative like everybody wanted them to be, and create some kind of new mini-puzzle in order to solve the puzzle box that actually challenged players in a unique way that isn't played out and hasn't been done before in Dead By Daylight.
So while I entirely disagree with the idea of having the chains not target the person holding the box, I am in full support of making solving the box an interaction that won't be interrupted by chains.
This way everybody gets what they want: killers playing Pinhead still apply pressure to all survivors with chainhunt, but the survivor making the effort to solve the configuration and end chainhunt can do so smoothly without needing to learn some obscure and frankly unnecessary "timing" between when the portals spawn, when the chains target you, etc.
This is already something in-game, though the chains interrupt many actions like healing, repairing generators, etc. they do not interrupt actions like opening exit gates. So the code already exists, it just needs to be applied to the lament configuration.
On top of this I also support the change of saving partial progress in solving the configuration. This is also something that already exists in game with the Deep Wound Status effect, when you're mending and you get interrupted for one reason or another, your progress isn't reset back to zero it stays where it was until you finish the progress bar. The same could be done for the configuration.
I made a poll on this topic shortly after pinhead released on the live build (and before the midchapter patch changes) and a large majority of responses were in favor of these changes.
@Seiko300 said:
Most of us agree that Pinhead could use a bunch of major changes, the primary issue being there's too low of a reward for a power that is as difficult to use as Pinhead's. Because of this he's not in the best place right now but on the bright side the foundational concept of how his power operates is solid and he looks to have a lot of potential if the right changes are made.
That being said,
Something I found to be a bit of a design flaw during my time as survivor against pinhead was during Chain Hunt. When all survivors are being pursued by endless hordes of spawning chains and you need to solve the puzzle box in order to get the hunt to stop, the chain hunt can actually INTERRUPT your attempts to solve the Puzzle Box.
Now, I am well aware Pinhead needs a lot to make him a better killer but this I believe is incredibly obnoxious. Trying to solve the puzzle box only to be interrupted by a chain that snags your arm away or claws at your back before you can finish it, only to break free do the box and then get hit by another chain resetting your progress back until you run around a little to dodge the chains and repeat the cycle or until Pinhead teleports to you is nothing short of completely irritating.
It seems to me that Chain Hunt does pause for the person doing the box, but the problem is when the portal for a chain spawns just before you try solving the puzzle box and completely halts your progress just after you start doing it. And this cycle can repeat itself for a solid 15 or 20 seconds or more if you're really unlucky, dragging out what shouldn't be a very long interaction.
Of course maybe I'm the one misunderstanding something, in which case correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played too many games against pinhead just yet- but of the games that I have played against him this has been the case.
I know that doing the Puzzle Box is far too easy right now, but this isn't the right way to make it more difficult to do the puzzle box and allow Pinhead to take greater and more numerous opportunities to take advantage of chain hunt.
There are much more interesting ideas out there like hiding the Puzzle Box's aura to survivors until the progress to chain hunt has passed 50% giving them less time to reach it before chain hunt begins. Or increasing the difficulty of the skillchecks like replacing the normal skillcheck with the new repeating yellow glyph skillchecks or doctor style skillchecks that reverse the direction or appear in different parts of the screen.
So my suggestion being while you're solving the puzzle box, chains that spawn as a result of chain hunt will not prevent you from completing the puzzle box interaction. Chains specifically from Chain Hunt, and this change will not affect the chains that Pinhead spawns manually and has to aim. And of course in the process hopefully around this time if not at the exact same time the Puzzle Box will be updated / reworked to be more interesting a mechanic and difficult for survivors to solve in other ways that are less of an annoying and more innovative and thoughtful.
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@D34D_B34TB0X said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2560323#Comment_2560323
I meant the Creeper as the killer, not Victor Salva lol.
But yeah, I can understand why. That old rat only served 15 months, he should've stayed there for a long time. 15 months was never enough. He was supposed to serve 3 years, which was kinda weird to begin with. And all that's why people protested against him making Jeepers Creepers 3, which wasn't really that good anyway.
It's likely The Creeper won't come anyway. Some people don't want to promote this guy's work, and we all know why. Maybe when he's dead they will? Or maybe they'll feel like it's involuntary support. Again, I can understand that. Victor Salva can rot in Hell for all I care. The new Jeepers Creepers movie, he will not be involved in it. A lot of people like to separate the art from the perverted artist. It's the case for Jeepers Creepers and the Hellraiser movies by Harvey Weinstien, which I'M GLAD he's gone. His face looks like a bulldog.
I read on the internet that after he got out of jail, that's when he made Jeepers Creepers. I hope that guy gets a heart attack from a Big Mac... These people in Hollywood are weird.
So yeah, if you don't want The Creeper, I can respect that and I thank you for viewing this poll.
If you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go spray my phone with holy water now. Salva looks like Weinstien had a kid with Brian Stelter.
I get that- and I know that the people who want the Creeper generally speaking aren't trying to support Victor Salva.
That being said, it's almost an "actions speak louder than words" situation and the potential inclusion of the Creeper straddles such an intensely grey line (dark grey I would say) that there really is no room to be vague about how we should treat those who indulge in such vile and immoral behavior.
Especially for a company like BHVR- you have to recognize that companies aren't people and they can't exactly vindicate and absolve themselves with mere words. Companies are judged by their actions and by their practice, that's why people intensely scrutinized BHVR for their potential involvement in some shady NFT business recently. Though as it turned out it was the license holders of Pinhead who did that, not BHVR. (The license agreement operates both ways: BHVR gets the rights to the character for their appearance in game- but the license holders also get to use the model that they create in BHVR for their own purposes).
I also just don't believe in this idea of "separating the art from the artist" or at the very least I believe such an idea is not all-encompassing and it holds far less weight than the people who take stock in it think it does. It directly infringes on this idea that nearly all creative works people make are in some way autobiographical- they say this most about writers. That putting pen to paper and the writing of a story is in itself an act of externalizing your personal collection of experiences and perceptions of the world, and thus all writing is influenced by it. Regardless of whether it's a conscious act or not, and such is the way of nearly any other artistic action: whether that's a painting, a sculpture, or a film.
So from this perspective, I find that the idea of "separating the art from the artist" is, in layman's terms: a huge heaping pile of horseshit.
As far as Jeepers Creepers goes, it's not hidden knowledge that there are some predatory sexual themes that exist within those films, and even within the art itself they are embedded within the story as an intrinsic and inseparable part of it. Such that you can easily draw the line between the film and its director clear as day.
I haven't seen the film myself, but I've discussed the topic multiple times and done the research to learn and now know that this is true. Here's how one article explains it (far better than I could) based off a closer look of Jeepers Creepers 2:
"Salva is something worse: a confessed child molester whose sick, damnable pathos infects his work. ... The story of a demonic, trenchcoated man-bat who sniffs out and devours selected victims, the film itself surrounds a high-school basketball team ... [and] a few flags go up when the mostly male-adolescent cast begins sunbathing, urinating in front of each other, and referring to themselves in song as 'the fighting cocks.' ... Salva has something more horrific in mind, and--as evinced in the opening scene of the film, in which the Creeper stalks, abducts and, as we later learn, mutilates and munches on a small child--Salva's work has developed a consistent theme of gratuitous sexual violence towards young boys.
... Forgive and forget? No. Not while Salva still clings to a depraved and disgusting celluloid fantasy. His scary films aside, the horrors that this man inflicted on a 12-year-old boy will haunt that victim forever"
As much as I want to end it off on that quote- I find myself needing to reiterate: The Creeper doesn't deserve to be in this, or any poll- neither the community at large nor the developers of the game, want the Creeper in any capacity.
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Wraith has already gotten the changes he needed and he's in a much better spot than he used to be when the game first came out in 2016.
Had this forum existed and you had made this thread back then you might have garnered more support.
It's not an issue now though as Wraith is a figured-out killer: people know the playstyle to effectively use Wraith, strategies which lean into his strengths and compensate for weaknesses, power + perk synergy, etc. If you've got a problem with Wraith it's probably because you need more practice.
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With each chapter / content release I become more and more desperate for some loadout organization Quality of Life changes to the point that I am slowly bringing it up more and more often, and voting for it more and more often.
It's getting really tiresome to have to sift through seven going on eight pages of perks. It's high time Dead By Daylight actually commit to the simple changes the game needs, allowing players to:
- Save custom loadouts
- Name custom loadouts
- Search bar to find specific perks by name
- Search for specific perks by key words
- Option to search through preset organization categories
- IE: Healing related perks, Aura reveal related perks, Boon / Hex: Perks, Exhaustion related perks, active perks (Dead Hard, Diversion,) etc.
- Save custom organization categories
- IE: meme category, off-meta, meta, chase-heavy, stealth heavy, Niche / Circumstantial, solo, with friends, competitive, casual, etc.
PLEASE BHVR. WE CAN'T KEEP GOING ON LIKE THIS.
- Save custom loadouts
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How about just a unique power instead of a broken one? I'd settle for that.
Let's not go overboard here.
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The Creeper doesn't deserve to be included in this, or any poll for that matter.
We support fictional monsters here in Dead By Daylight, not real ones.
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What are you talking about? The Blight is already in the game.
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Xenomorph is undoubtedly one of if not the most exciting pick as far as licenses go.
However,
Runner Up:
Pennywise.
Finalist:
Candyman
No introduction necessary:
Jason Voorhees
#1 Video game license:
Big Daddy Bioshock
Honorable Mention:
The Predator
Not included in the poll for some reason??
Chucky, The Thing
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I haven't seen either, and honestly, we've already got two haunting Japanese killers in the game- so I'm not as interested in seeing them as I might have been in the past. More interested in a Vampire or Werewolf killer at the moment if anything.
Or as far as movie licenses go: Candyman, Pennywise, The Xenomorph, The Predator, Jason, etc.
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@D34D_B34TB0X said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2558397#Comment_2558397
Kinda wish we got a full gameplay concept, dang that looked real...
I'd love to see the third person arc shot of The Bouncer in a Dead By Daylight map, and the first person view as well. It'd be so cool.
But the way the eight portholes light up and hearing the whale noise is enough to tide me over right now. We definitely need to see The Bouncer in Dead By Daylight.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXNLiez_4a0
This is just way too cool not to have in Dead By Daylight. The Bouncer immediately shot up to the top of my list as #1 as far as video game licenses go, whereas I normally would vote for a killer from Outlast or The Keeper from Evil Within.
You just can't say no to The Big Daddy.
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@D4M4VR1CK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2539065#Comment_2539065
But generic is sometimes good. For a killer that started a slasher genre it would make sense you would name him after something he’s associated with like naming Freddy Kruger “the nightmare” because he kills you in his dreams and it makes sense. “The woodsman” sounds cool don’t get me wrong, but you don’t think of Jason with that name. If I told someone the name “the woodsmen” and they would probably would have no idea who I was talking about even if I told them the person came from a horror movie, but if I told you the name “the slasher” instead, one of the first people you think about is Jason. You don’t want a name that no one recognizes, you want the name that people that don’t even play the game realize who they’re talking about.
Except Jason didn't start the slasher genre- Jason Voorhees wasn't even a real character until Friday the 13th part 2 released in 1981, and the iconic version of Jason sporting his iconic Hockey Mask that everybody thinks of didn't come until a year after that in 1982 when Part 3 released.
At the very minimum John Carpenter's Halloween came four years before that in 1978 which introduces the strong silent type of killers who murder violently without uttering a sound.
But generally speaking there's a large crowd who believe that Black Christmas was the first authentic slasher film which started the slasher genre- and that was in 1974 four years before Halloween. Coincidentally, the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre film also released that same year in 1974- and we see Leatherface cutting up bodies with a chainsaw.
But even before THAT you could say fourteen years prior- Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho came out in 1960, with the iconic scene where Marion Crane gets stabbed to death in the shower!!
Long story short, it's an egregious offense to say that Voorhees "started [the] slasher genre" because that's very far from the truth- so if that's your reason then all the more reason to believe Jason Voorhees is even less deserving of such a moniker.
Although of course at the end of the day it's a squabble over words and I still get what you mean- had you used the word "popularized" I wouldn't have gone on a tangent.
That being said I think generic in nearly every context is a bad thing, but most especially within the context of Dead By Daylight. It's a game of slasher killers, and it's important to make them distinct from each other- "the slasher" can literally apply to half of them and I think Jason deserves better than (imo) a half-assed name like that.
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I stand firm that the rights to a shapeshifting power belong exclusively to John Carpenter's The Thing. I would refuse to accept a shapeshifting power for any killer unless I was absolutely certain that The Thing could not be included in DBD for whatever reason (AKA a direct deconfirm by the devs).
Although maybe the T-1000 Terminator might be an exception. But that's as far as it goes.
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@SlothGirly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556802#Comment_2556802
8 meters is not an unsubstantial range to have. Even against Nemesis who can only reach out to 6 at T3. I thini comparing it to Demo is kissing the point, as Punishment of The Damned obviously goes through walls. Then, if you stack the double range addons, you get some pretty ridiculous reach with him. And given how subpar the rest of Pyramid Heads addons are, the double range are easily the best.
Hence why I included this line:
"(although yes it does make a difference in capability, but not enough to mark them as so entirely different categorically)"
I didn't say the difference in range was insignificant. I did say however, that it was not significant enough that I would put Pyramid Head and Nemesis in completely different categories of killers. I also wouldn't necessarily define a killer by what they could do with their add-ons either, so the reference to increasing range with add-ons seems a bit of a moot point. I wouldn't call Nemesis a stealth killer just because he can gain the undetectable status effect for 15 seconds after destroying a Zombie with an add-on.
Refocusing to my point though, I didn't mean to put you on the hot spot earlier and ask you what they would add specifically- not my intention and I don't expect you to have that answer. However I am saying that I am not sure I would like more ranged killers, because I fear they've exhausted most if not all creative options, and they may fall into the pitfalls of basically redoing killer concepts they've already done before. So I already don't see the reason to add more.
Especially now more than ever, because the line between just Huntress and Deathslinger have already become blurred. Deathslinger vs. Huntress was an interesting conversation because there were legitimate reasons to like Deathslinger more than Huntress, he was a ranged killer without a lullaby and with a reduced TR so he could actually operate almost like a Stealth killer when combined with the right perks. Huntress had range, but Deathslinger had a ridiculous ADS time such that you could catch survivors at nearly any loop if your reaction time and aim was good enough. And what deathslinger lacks in range he makes up for in projectile speed and
But now that line has become less distinct, and Deathslinger has become more like Huntress. Regular terror radius, and a slower ADS time. I'll admit- these things presented their issues which needed to be addressed, but they were also some of the things which made Deathslinger a unique character pick and were reasons players might choose him over huntress. What now? I guess Deathslinger still has a faster ADS time, but we're starting to talk about increasingly less and less time between.
So yeah, not sure if it would be good to add more ranged killers when already the ranged killers we have are too similar to each other to begin with.
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@SlothGirly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556761#Comment_2556761
you forgot the anitloop power of Pyramid Head D:
I'm not saying I know what they could add. Just saying that's the type of killer I want more of.
ehhhhhhh kinda going into a gray area there.
Because if Pyramid Head counts as "ranged" than wouldn't that make Nemesis ranged? Their aggressive potential operates in very similar ways, the only difference is one is slower and more clunky but can go through walls and the other is quicker and more responsive but doesn't go through walls. The range between them is only separate by 2 meters so you can hardly say that one is all that much longer than the other (although yes it does make a difference in capability, but not enough to mark them as so entirely different categorically). Hell, the Demogorgon's Shred covers a greater distance than both of those killers- standing at 11 meters total, so does that make Demogorgon a ranged killer?
The resulting haziness is why I didn't include Pyramid Head into the list. The characters I've listed are undeniably ranged killers because their powers cover significant distances and can circumvent different obstacles on the map in the process. Whereas the latter three mentioned in this very comment raise some confusion and questions about who falls under what category and is certainly debatable. The mere fact that it is debatable is why I didn't include them.
I suppose you could call killers like PH and Nemesis "close ranged" killers, but that almost seems like a kind of oxymoron which defeats the purpose of a ranged killer in the first place. Your first thought of a ranged killer is someone who can kill from greater distances, not because they can pull some fancy shmancy whatever so long as you're under an eight meter threshold.
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The problem with Captain Cutler is that I genuinely want to see this as a fully fleshed out Killer. Not captain cutler himself, but a creepy Scuba Diver in a Vintage Scuba Suit as part of a really cool and unique Nautical themed chapter. Seeing a diver completely covered head to toe in his suit, his metal boots clanking against the ground, the single window glowing a malevolent red color that creates the Red Stain in front of him as he wanders the map equipped with a fishing spear he thrusts into the bodies of sea creatures and survivors alike.
The Big Daddy from Bioshock is a great example of this horror diver concept, and I wouldn't mind seeing either a bioshock licensed chapter- or just an original killer built with similar elements of character design as the Big Daddy.
But either way I'd be incredibly disappointed if such an opportunity was completely an entirely wasted because BHVR decided to throw Captain Cutler as the Scooby Doo / nautical horror representative on an outrageously 15$ "legendary" killer skin instead of part of its own 7$ chapter.
So I'm kind of at odds with the idea every time it's brought up.
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@SlothGirly said:
I want more ranged killers as they're the ones I tend to gravitate toward and enjoy more.
It's strange because this is the one killer archetype that I think they've probably exhausted. There are a finite number of things you can do with range that actually breach into unique areas that haven't been done before. Pinhead, for example, is one of those killers.
But really all the major categories have been covered. You've got a longer ranged "sniper" killer in the form of Huntress, you've got a deadlier at shorter ranges killer with Deathslinger, you've got your increased fire rate killer with Trickster, you've got your mindless splash zone ranged attack in Plague (although it is only available for a limited time), and your eccentric "hits from odd angles" ranged killer in Pinhead.
I just can't quite imagine how much more there is there that doesn't just repeat concepts from preexisting killers. I'm not sure
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Jesse- did you just install Balloons Tower Defense 3 Unlimited Money Glitch [Hacked] onto the Family Computer?
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While I think it might be a little much to really specify customization down to Skyrim levels to the point we have "earring slots" or "sock slots" I do think that the store, and the things within it should be overhauled on some level. Many of the cosmetics that exist on the shop are years old and out of date, yet they are for some reason still priced at the exact same price points as brand new cosmetics that are freshly released.
These cosmetics should either be updated to warrant their continued price, or they should start looking at reducing the prices for older cosmetics which have been out for literal years. It's not an uncommon practice, even in microtransactions in games- hell, free to play games like League of Legends do this. But still somehow DBDs very first cosmetic outfit pieces have somehow retained their exact same value over the years without depreciating at all.
Even the sales for their in-game store are infrequent and completely unpredictable, unlike say Steam sales which routinely occur around the holidays and can be counted upon.
On top of this, how a cosmetics value is determined is almost seemingly entirely haphazard- it is not just the very rare cosmetics that had a lot of effort and detailed pieces and textures on them, but lower rarity cosmetics as well. There are some uncommon yellow rarity cosmetics that are locked behind a paywall- without seemingly any significant difference between that one specific cosmetic, and similar recolors of the same rarity. It's like the devs decided to pick at least one cosmetic of each kind of rarity needs to be locked behind a paywall, just for the sake of being locked behind a paywall. Can we get some more clarity on this? What differentiates these cosmetics and makes them somehow more valuable than others and therefore necessitates a paywall?
The only reason not to answer this question would be because there isn't a serious difference, and this random haphazard policy is just a cash grab.
There's also the whole thing about linked cosmetics, and how many linked cosmetics actually need to be linked (although some of this is likely tied to license holder requests), for example a body and leg piece should be linked when they have overlapping pieces, but a head piece that is completely unrelated and might just have nice and unique looking hair? Does that have to be linked?
Legendary cosmetics are also a huge issue as far as the store goes- what is it about these cosmetics that is actually "legendary?" what makes them worth 5$ more than the previous highest rarity cost? Or are we just paying for the "idea" and the "concept" of a skin that is legendary: AKA- a skin that is "legendary" in name and by title only and not legendary in terms of quality. It used to be far worse where legendary skins would share everything with survivors: names, animations, voices, etc. The devs have started to change this, the names of the actual characters themselves start showing up nowadays, legendaries have unique icons that show the face of the legendary character instead of the default survivor they belong to, they have unique postures and animations while standing in lobby, they've got unique backstories written out, and I believe their voices change as well.
However this is not true for ALL legendary skins and some still share much of the characteristics with their original characters: namely the few Killer Legendary skins: which do not change killers as much as their survivor legendary counterparts do. And many for many killer legendaries: audio hasn't been re-recorded and their voices don't change despite being completely different characters, animations are shared between the default character and their legendary skin, mori animations also see no change, and their powers are not affected at all and are visually identical to the default character.
Ex: Why is a Greek Minotaur wielding a Japanese Kanabo instead of a greek Labrys? (two handed axe) Why does he bellow with the great thunderous war cry of a rage filled samurai instead of releasing a bloodthirsty, animalistic, guttural roar befitting of the mythical creature that is the Minotaur? Why is it in Lobby the minotaur swings his weapon with the grace and discipline of a malevolently trained samurai?
The store itself just needs an update. It was made 3 years ago and was shipped alongside the Curtain Call chapter for the Clown which was Chapter 8 for those that don't remember- and the signs of aging are showing through: both in the overall store itself and in its older content.
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I'm fortunate enough to have been able to play through every single halloween event there ever was in DBD- so yes, I do remember the All Hallows Eve event which came before the Blight was ever a thing.
And yes, I absolutely adored that event although it would be extremely simple by today's standards for the game. The lobby in the main menu was decorated with in Halloween festivities: a sickly green fog covered the campfire, the gleeful orange glow of smiling pumpkins and candles lit the scene, and gravestones littered the background with inside jokes / references to the developers were engraved into them. The Will-O-Wisp Flashlights and All Hallows Eve Lunchbox were introduced in this event, and Nurse got her Sally O'Lantern headpiece too, which is still creepy if you stare into the vacant orange eyes for too long.
My favorite thing from this event however, was the music: the sharp twang of the strings and the piercing notes of a piano cut clear and crisp through the camp shrouded in night. Producing a fantastically festive atmosphere, that let you know right away as soon as you booted up the game: It's Spooky Season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m4AVjPt7tUAlthough newer players will likely recognize this track as the background music for Mikaela Reids reveal trailer in "Hour of the Witch" which is fitting given both the season and the character herself.
But as great as these humble beginnings for the halloween events were, the dev team raised the bar significantly with the very first Hallowed Blight Event. Most certainly and without a doubt the greatest halloween event in all of Dead By Daylight history. Redecorating the lobby with even greater zeal than the year previous, an amazing instrumental track that combined the creepiness of halloween and the mysteries of the Blight, a secondary objective that actually changed up the pace of gameplay with amazingly gross visceral cankers that spluttered out into vials of nectar which players had to fill to earn the original Blight cosmetics- some of the most well done cosmetics of all time and still hold up today. Creatively exaggerating the individual features and unique characteristics of each killer, making them more menacing and grotesque than they were before, and serving to make them less recognizably human- detaching them from their former lives and separating them from their backstories as they were forced deeper into the depths of their own monstrosity.
The blight was amazing, and its unfortunate not everybody recognized it at the time because all of the complaints the devs got about the event caused a kneejerk reaction which would cause the downfall and slow degradation of the Blight events, and a stripping away of the things which made them cool and unique. In the exact same way a mother may overreact when when her child trips and scrapes their knee, causing that child to lose the privileges of whatever it was they were having fun with because of a minor injury.
It's mind boggling that the Blight events actually did become worse and worse events as time went on and each one was poorer in quality than the last. The halloween events becoming reduced to a "do these reskinned generators" event, which is synonymous with the uninspired cheeky events we got during the Summer- these events hardly contribute anything to the season, they didn't innovate on gameplay or create anything interesting for players outside of a speed boost add-on for killers and survivors- tying the events into the archives was a mistake, the music was either toned down or changed completely to something that wasn't worth remembering (not to mention drowned out by the unique themes of every killer in Killer Select), the decorations for the lobby were sparse and mundane at best, and UGH.
Ugh.
Which is why I wish they would have done a fourth blight event. One that would be a worthy send off for what was originally (for all its faults) a fun and creative event in its inception. That would be worth remembering by the community, and that new players could enjoy in Modern DBD without only hearing about it anecdotally from veterans.
Whatever it is that they plan to do now, one can only hope they actually do it right.
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It's less that Wraith is super powerful at high ranks (he's not)
and more because he's just easy to play.
Wraith has a much lower skill floor because of how simple his power is: invisibility + movespeed and that's really it. There's not much nuance to Wraith that requires hours of practice to be able to use him effectively compared to say the other two original killers:
- Trapper has always been weak because of the time it takes to setup but even beyond this, playing well requires map knowledge, knowing how to budget your time efficiently between setting traps and applying pressure to survivors, where to place your traps (place them in obvious places like beneath windows and pallets where they might be easily disarmed, or less obvious places where nobody might walk into them? Or something in between?), knowing how to appropriately herd survivors into dangerous areas where they will get caught in pre-set traps, etc.
- Hillbilly, who has a mechanically more difficult power to control, you need to be able to gauge time and distance between how quick you can rev up a chainsaw and whether or not the survivor you intend to hit is going to be able to make it around the loop or behind some obstacle in time? You need to be mindful of how quickly the chainsaw moves you forward such that you don't accidentally sprint past your target. You've also got to be able to handle sudden and sharp turns with the chainsaw as hillbilly so that you can effectively use the power at different loops. Keeping an eye on your chainsaw cooldown to make sure it doesn't overheat; knowing when to use your chainsaw or just use a simple M1 is its own skill in itself as well.
Wraith doesn't really have to think about any of these things. Don't get me wrong, every killer requires their own set of knowledge and skillset to be able to use and more importantly to use effectively, but I think most or at least many people might be able to get behind me when I say Wraith has become more mindless in recent history. Get a snappy hit on one survivor, disengage, go to another survivor, hit them, disengage again, and then return to the first and catch them unaware for a quick down. Rinse and repeat.
Let's be real here, the speed boost Wraith has when uncloaking is used more often to catch survivors out of position before they can get to a pallet or window more often than it is as an actual anti-looping tool. This kind of playstyle often left survivors feeling a bit frustrated or at least mildly annoyed- because they aren't getting a chance to express their own skill in chases, and more tense and exciting interactions with the killer gave way to these short stunted interactions leaving a bit more to be desired.
I'm not sure if this was the right change to be made, whether it was too much or too little, but I think Wraith needed some small tempering back a bit which is something I don't think I ever thought I'd say. Again, not because he's powerful- but because the lower skill floor means it can sometimes feel as though less skilled players are getting rewarded for not as much effort.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2543134#Comment_2543134
A cheats a cheat, no matter how small. Unintended gameplay advantage is the very definition of a cheat. Doesn't have to be levitating instant head ons to be a cheat.
This ^
Cheats don't have to be outrageously and blatantly obvious to be considered cheats. Some of the most frustrating ones to go up against are the ones that change small details about gameplay and can often go unnoticed by opposing players, but gives enough of an advantage that the player using them is nearly always in a superior position, even if they aren't always winning. Though they are likely winning more often than not, because that's the point of a cheat in the first place.
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A change which tackles both Prestige Rewards (currently a very large portion of the community believe P3 50 all perks just isn't worth the time) and potentially reduces grind as well. Not because people are grinding less, but because they're getting what they want / need more quickly since they can refresh bloodwebs. Instead of going ages and ages without seeing a single of whatever it is they're looking for as they go through bloodweb after bloodweb after bloodweb.
I see 0 reason to not support this change. Unless you're a masochist who either 1. likes spending more time than you need to on a thing or 2. doesn't want tangible reward incentives to make all the time spent getting to P3-50 worthwhile, so as to make a players time spent more meaningful as you've got something to work toward.
One of the best ideas I've heard on the forums in a long while and I'm keenly looking forward to bringing this up in future discussions until it is hopefully implemented in game.
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The question itself is a bit ridiculous because the answer is pretty obvious.
The most important thing here to note before I dive into the particulars of the question is the nature of the question itself. The question is NOT "Who is the best Stealth Killer" it is "Who is the STEALTHIEST killer" and this is the question I am answering.
Myers
A reduced TR hardly counts as a stealth killer, so being compared to the likes of Ghostface or Wraith is just mindbogglingly wrong. The reduced terror radius helps don't get me wrong, and you can shrink it even further with perks M&A to capitalize on that and make it even better but even with an incredibly small 8m TR you're still looking at a small window of time where a survivor can really quickly move to the nearest pallet or window if they've positioned themselves appropriately.
Even worse by default because that's still an entire 16m of warning for survivors to react as per the circumstance, and if you're up against good survivors that know to treat Myers TR differently (IE, being on the edge of Myers radius is not the same thing as being on the edge of Hillbilly radius) and move immediately it will drastically reduce the effectiveness of how well any myers player can take advantage of that small terror radius.
Comparing Myers to Ghostface / Wraith is frankly laughable. He barely qualifies as a stealth killer and that's mostly because he starts out undetectable because of EW1 and can stay in EW1 with addons to alleviate the downsides. "Stealthier" than most killers doesn't really translate to a true stealth killer, and honestly in regards to true stealth killers I'd rate Pig higher in this category than Myers. Which is NOT a knock on how powerful Myers is in relation to Pig or in general, it is an objective and focused view on what it means to be a Stealth Killer. Myers has a terror radius unlike the rest of them, this is simply a fact. (And the fact that Pig isn't included in this poll is probably insulting to most Pig players [which I am not, but I'm not going to just forget she exists either]).
If you picked Myers I'd be willing to bet it's because of his reputation outside of Dead By Daylight, and less because of how his gameplay actually functions within the game.
Wraith
Wraith is a much better killer than he used to be, and pure stealth wise I think it's evident to see he has the "purest" form of Stealth out of all the Stealth killers. Although you can still see the cloak shimmer, even with the shimmer it's a ludicrous claim to say that he is somehow "easier" to see than Myers, Ghostface, or Pig. I won't say it's particularly difficult to spot a cloaked Wraith but there's no way you can tell me with a straight face that somebody who is more or less transparent and reflects the environment around them is easier to see than the physical form of Myers or Ghostface. Especially since each of the Stealth Killers so far have a brightly identifiable feature about them that can be picked out quickly across the map except Wraith, for Myers and Ghostface it is their white masks- for the pig it's her bright red cloak / fleshy pig mask.
I will also note that not only can you not see a cloaked wraith more easily than his stealth counterparts just because of the shimmer, because why would you, but also that the shimmer doesn't even exist at further ranges. So this claim that "The Wraith is NOT INVISIBLE!" by @IsJustMe is blatantly incorrect. As of Patch 4.5.0 Wraith is completely invisible in the truest sense (as in you cannot even see a shimmer) to survivors who are further than 20m away when cloaked, and this is one of the best changes they could give him to make him more viable. Survivors are no longer able to pick out the Wraith shimmer across the map as they used to and this is an old age problem which doesn't affect the Wraith anymore.
However, despite this Wraith has one fatal flaw that holds him back from being the best- and it is his audio cues. When the Wraith uncloaks he rings his obnoxiously loud bell, alerting all survivors within a 24m terror radius, and an accompanying "woosh" sound effect can also be heard up to 40m away. A survivor, although perhaps a bit startled and somewhat ruffled- will never be 100% caught off guard by a Wraith and the precious seconds that it takes to uncloak can be enough time to reach a pallet or window.
This is not to say that the Wraith cannot do anything about this, and for experienced Wraiths it won't matter whether or not the survivor sees them coming at the last second, because they will have positioned themselves to block a pallet or window such that a survivor might not be able to reach a safe position in time on account for the speed boost. It also won't matter that the survivor sees the Wraith coming last minute if the survivor is caught standing in a dead zone where no pallets or windows exist. The problem of the audio cue can also be solved with the Bone / Coxcombed Clapper add-ons, which affect the audio cue to render it completely silent for the latter or ever-present as the survivors cannot discern distance or direction for the former. Although one of these is an iridescent add-on, and you cannot generally build a regular loadout with iridescents due to their rarity in bloodwebs.
However, despite this, the audio cue is in place to provide counterplay and the opportunity for a survivor to do something to defend themselves and this is always to the detriment of the Wraith, and something that Wraith players must acknowledge, be aware of, and play around.
It's also worth noting that beyond this the Wraith also has a few other audio cues that can tip off the survivors even before he begins clanging the Wailing Bell: notably his footsteps and breathing. Which can both be heard in close proximity ranges for perceptive survivors to act on even before a Wraith has truly revealed his presence and starts his lengthier uncloaking process. The breathing itself is much noticeable than the others, because it is a garbled and congested growl- easily identifiable and out of place amongst the other sounds in game and is entirely unique to the Wraith.
GHOSTFACE
Leaving the latest and the greatest: Ghostface.
It's by no means a secret that of all the Stealth Killers Ghostface's power requires the most skill and map knowledge to use. He is the only stealth killer who can be discerned by the survivors and knocked out of his power Night Shroud, revealing his presence to everybody in his normal 32m terror radius. However the greatest risks reap the greatest rewards and Ghostface provides the most room of any stealth killer for skill expression, with the highest skill ceiling of any of the stealth killers that can allow him to tackle much more proven and adept opponents.
Pulling back and refocusing: Ghostface can reduce his TR to 0 instantaneously at any point that his power is off cooldown. In itself this is a spectacular ability, but great not for what it does do- but rather what it doesn't. Unlike his compatriots Ghostface is not afflicted by any of the negative aspects that the other Stealth Killers have: unlike Myers in EW1 Ghostface moves at a normal 115% walking Speed allowing him to play loops as any normal killer, and unlike Wraith Ghostface does not have a lengthy wind-up which gives survivors a few seconds to reactively defend themselves. Though she isn't included on this poll, it's also worth mentioning that Ghostface is able to use his stealth without a forced crouch which reduces movement speed and FOV as the Pig is. This allows Ghostface to be the most immediately aggressive Stealth killer in any given moment, able to sneak up on survivors quickly and efficiently and deal damage right away without any hesitation.
Ghostface is also the stealth killer most effective at using his stealth power during his chases, unlike Myers who cannot ever return back to EW1, and Wraith who must echo the sound of his bell mid-chase alerting the survivor of their actions. Ghostface can immediately enter Night Shroud at a moments notice and disengage chase before a survivor realizes they've left, or mindgame at tall loops or buildings by hiding his red stain. In addition, Ghostface can also take advantage of the immediate crouch using it as a tool for mindgames mid-chase more efficiently than the Pig who has a wind-up time in order to crouch.
And though it isn't directly tied into how his stealth works, Ghostface's unique stalk which exposes individual survivors synergizes a lot better with his power than Myers styled stalk would. Ghostface can expose survivors incredibly quickly, marking them as exposed by a default of 5 seconds and in 2.5 when leaning, and even less with the use of add-ons although they aren't necessary because of how quick this action is on its own. A ghostface has the option if he so chooses to stalk a survivor for 5 or 2.5 seconds while stealthed around a corner and down them in one fell swoop after. This can be especially useful and deadly if a survivor is caught walking through a dead zone, or perhaps working on a generator that needed to be done that didn't have pallets or windows nearby.
Ghostface can also intentionally pause the individual stalk meter on certain survivors just before they would be exposed, chase other survivors and apply pressure in other areas of the map, and then cloak into night shroud sneak up on their unsuspecting prey and expose them immediately and down them. It also works equally well in chases an aggressive tool to have survivors already prepped at 90% marked and then when activate night shroud and expose them.
The point of these past two paragraphs and the reason for why Ghostface's stalk is worth mentioning in a discussion on stealth is to illustrate an important point. Which is that Ghostface's stalk is inextricably linked to his power, unlike Myers who becomes a greater presence when his stalk reaches fruition, Ghostface stalks and marks his victims quietly and without flourish. Ghostface uses his stalk in tandem with his stealth capabilities, rather than separately as Myers does. Allowing him to sneak up on a survivor, stalk them, chase someone else, find them again and mark them for an easy down. Or simply stalk them right away and down them immediately.
Because of the nature of the power of Ghostface, it's also important to note that Ghostface is not at all reliant on his stalk. It is more akin to the cherry on top rather than the main focal point of his power. Unlike Myers who entirely relies on the snowball potential of his stalking and exposed one-hit-downs to apply pressure. Ghostface can easily go an entire match without using his stalk a single time, by sneaking up on survivors and taking advantage of hit and run tactics bouncing from one target to the next. Avoiding lengthy chases and getting quick downs by surprising survivors caught unaware. (This is how you see most Wraith players play today, but the strategy was originally first coined as far as I can remember as a way to play Ghostface when he first released. Only after was it applied to Wraith.)
Ghostface does all of this and more, and he does it the best. Of all the stealth killers, he is undoubtedly the stealthiest.
NOTE: I would have done a section on Pig, but seeing as she wasn't included in the poll for whatever reason I don't see it as necessary. Also means less writing for me.
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This might be an interesting way to bridge the gap between solo survivors and SWF, it's these small mistakes and forms of miscommunication that put solo survivor lobbies queues at the disadvantage state that they often find themselves.
It's not a completely foreign idea either- in plenty of games you can view the loadouts of your teammates before a match.
So I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea and its something worth testing, although I can't super confidently vote any which way on this poll.
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I think "The Woodsman" is actually an incredibly unique and provoking name- and I'm disappointed that more people didn't vote for it.
Although I get it conjures up images of a crazed lumberjack, I think it's still aptly fitting enough. Jason literally lives in the woods around camp crystal lake killing camp counselors and anyone foolish enough to wander in and encroach on the hallowed grounds where he drowned.
The Slasher is such a generic name you would skip right over it on a list of the killers in DBD, and it really doesn't hold up over more creative titles like "The Shape" and "The Nightmare" or "The Executioner" and so I hope that wouldn't be the real pick.
The Slasher reminds me of that Janitor killer from Last Year: The Nightmare who is their mascot killer that goes by the exact same name. So there's also that.
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@Gazgemauch said:
RPD for me
i may sound like a creature worse than any cenobite, more evil than myers, and living in more of a nightmare than freddy, but...swamp. is. my. favorite. map.
I would have gone with "from a scarier nightmare than Freddy" or something to that effect but just a small change and I get the point either way so still funny.
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Charms were- and have always been- fluff content. They are tiny little bits and bobs that can be interesting to look at for about 5 seconds but after that they're so small and insignificant they are basically worthless.
It was very obvious from the get-go that charms were created to be filler content for the Rift so as to make it seem as though it had more rewards than it really did and thus give the impression of a more worthwhile purchase / investment. I don't believe there's a single person in the community that would actually prefer a charm over a real cosmetic outfit (or even just a piece of an outfit) that can actually be seen by other players. Even some of the lowest valued common or uncommon cosmetics, are comparably more worthwhile than the highest valued charms.
This would be far more evident if they had charms added to the in-game store, because the sales of charms would likely be woefully inadequate by comparison to the sales of regular cosmetics.
If the devs need something to make the rift more worthwhile, literally cycle existing cosmetics from the shop that have never been in the rift. Even better: add iridescent shard tiles that repeat like the auric cell tiles do, so that players can earn a cumulatively significant number of shards that they can then use to buy a single rare outfit or provide significant progress toward a very rare outfit. Now THAT is a real incentive. Not charms.
There are also those fantastic ideas of the devs creating alternate moris like the devs do Executions in For Honor, having different mori animations for different killers would be amazing and badass and again: provide way more incentive to complete the rift in its entirety than stupid piddly charms. Like- there are examples of QUALITY content and rewards that the devs could have chosen to fill the rift and they went for charms anyway.
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Although I would like to see more maps that have moving parts to them, and just in general unique aspects that create an original atmosphere, I've heard the idea of a mazelike map before which consists of a myriad of square rooms, (which this sounds very similar to just with the addition of opening doors / walls) and honestly it sounds risky / scary enough balance and gameplay wise that I don't think I'd go for it.
Sounds like it would be a nightmare to design such a map, on top of the feedback they already get for poor map designs that already exist in the first place.
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I've always thought the question of wether or not they play their own game was a completely ridiculous one- because of course they do. There's no other way around it, the devs definitely play the game that they work on, they do streams where it's just them playing the game every now and then and a few of them stream individually like McLean did. Frankly, you're a fool if you say that they absolutely have never touched their game once as a player.
The question people really should be asking / want to be asking when they ask this question is actually: "do the devs play enough of their own game?" As in, do they play often / frequently enough to have a significant understanding of the ins and outs of their game and what needs to be done. This is the real question. But it's also more difficult to answer, because who can say really? Are you hunting down their steam accounts and checking their hours? What would you even say is a proper amount of time a developer should be sinking into their own game?
Overall, this line of question has never entertained me and it always comes off as accusatory. There's just no point in following that train of thought, seeing as it gets you nowhere.
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I would just like a bunch of brand new cool quality of life changes made. There's still a bunch of cool stuff you can do with base DBD before even looking further down the horizon at possible new modes or games or whatever.
- Pre-game collapse
- Bloodpoint market (sell unused or unwanted items / add-ons / offerings for reduced Bloodpoint gain)
- Crafting system (crafting materials / combining add-ons / items / offerings to create new ones of higher rarities)
- Perk organization (ability to create and save custom loadouts, search bar to find specific perks, ability to organize perks by pre-made and / or custom categories - IE affect healing speed, aura reading, Hex / Boon, etc.)
- Better rewards / incentives for Prestiging (IE for sake of example: reduce the cost of items / add-ons / offerings on survivors who have hit P3 [maybe even make the cheap common ones free], add a permanent 25% or 50% Bonus BP increase to survivors who are at P3, automatically unlock all teachable perks on P3 survivors, etc.)
- Create rewards for Devotion / make Devotion meaningful instead of meaningless (IE: greater iridescent shard reward for hitting lvl 100, a new currency you get that allows you to pick one cosmetic outfit from the store, unique devotion outfits or cosmetic pieces, etc.)
- Removal of perk tiers (this is a long time coming and lets face it- with upwards of 7 pages of perks that are part of an increasingly growing list this change is becoming more and more necessary every update).
- General "reduce the grind" related changes. (I would argue this should also apply to the cosmetic shop, grinding for a single very rare cosmetic outfit worth 21,600 iridescent shards is a serious pain that takes literal weeks to do especially if you don't play multiple hours every single day. Reducing the price of older cosmetics compared to brand new ones is not a novel idea, and even free to play games like League of Legends does this)
- etc.
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I ain't no snitch
That's all I gotta say
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2521908#Comment_2521908
I do hope that BHVR is working on something like that behind the scenes. If we can have RE games and movies, why not a Trickster anime? Or a DBD anthology similar to "Love Death + Robots" on Netflix?
I could see a DBD show which actually focuses on the story of a survivor we don't see in game, although features the survivors we do see like Nea or Dwight who he gradually meets. Perhaps with cameos of popular characters like Bruce Campbell as Ash Williams or Joe Keery as Steve, or Kyle Gallner as Quentin. It could be set up and presented almost like the Rogue One of Dead By Daylight- which tells the story of a character in the pursuit of a goal who is ultimately killed in the process of achieving it. But in the end, provides the tools necessary for the characters we are familiar with (Dwight, Claudette, Jake, Meg, etc.) to succeed (or at least survive) in their own stories.
Just an idea BHVR.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2521349#Comment_2521349
I second this. For instance, an "Attack on Titan" game could be very cool, but I don't see how it would fit with DBD. However, I'll flip the question and say I would love a Trickster anime. Seeing the people around him slowly get suspicious of his nefarious deeds would be a great story.
I second this second. A trickster anime would be something I would be very interested in, as we slowly see the pressures and pleasures of celebrity life change who the trickster is as a character and speaks on questions of how attention and fame changes a person, and conversely how we put too much faith and benefits (of doubt) into our personal idols who we exalt and venerate.
On the other hand, this also just extends to a general statement where I would also just in general be interested in a Dead By Daylight TV show. Perhaps as an anthology where every episode focuses on a different character, I guess sort of like how the archives are set up now, before diving into a more concrete story that takes place within the realm of the entity.
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I won't claim to be an expert on any of these and I can't speak for all of them, but I am familiar with most of them and a decent chunk just aren't very fitting.
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Ace is the only acceptable answer here
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Gameplay wise - to sum up: this question is only interesting if you aren't familiar enough with the game to know the answer almost immediately.
Although you could argue possibly spirit since she arguably takes less time to learn and gets similar results to Nurse, but I always thought of this question in regards to the highest levels of play, in which case the answer is more identifiably nurse.
Also Spirit is finally going to be seeing some nerfs soon, but only time will tell how significant they are in creating some real tangible counterplay.
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I still really hate the idea of renaming the stranger things perks to other things- I completely understand the need to rework the perk icons to something else non-stranger things related, but there's no way that Netflix can actually claim some kind of copyright or intellectual property over the NAMES of perks.
Are you really trying to tell me that Stranger Things has some kind of rights over the words / phrase "inner strength"? "camaraderie"? or "cruel limits"?
These things truly have very little to do with the overall show and are just loose connections to the characters but they are entirely generic enough that I don't see Netflix actually being able to hold a case in court. Now if the devs still want to do it just as an act of good faith and to rustle as few feathers as possible as they show they are parting ways amicably with no bad blood between the two companies when the deal is finally dissolved, I guess- fine- that's a decent enough excuse to do it.
But still, this is not nothing. And the sheer bloating DBD is experiencing on account of the number of perks, add-ons, is not fun to deal with and the need to memorize every single one and their effect on a whim is a serious pressure most regular players can probably identify with if they're making a sincere effort to get better. Renaming perks in the midst of this bloating and STILL without an organizational system for our inventories of 7 full pages of perks is just nothing short of an annoyance for players committing this information to memory, it is simply an inconvenience for the playerbase.
It seems to me that it's completely unnecessary to rename the perks.
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I don't see how such a skin would make sense for the Huntress.
But Susie, sure, have at it.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5G2TEDG2S747/f-5-870x524.jpg
I have some bad news for you buddy....
😂🤣