Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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For just the question? No.
Tunneling is probably necessary under specific scenarios (ex: 3 survivors greatly out class you, 1 don't) but overall it isn't necessary to keep a good win rate. It'll help but its not necessary.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864983#Comment_3864983
- Survivor A is hooked
- Survivor B uses the perk on Survivor A
- Survivor B is hooked
- Survivor C uses the perk on Survivor B
The above scenario is basically saying "don't chase survivor A, but don't chase survivor B either". If survivors want to protect one survivor from being tunneled, that that is ok, but we shouldn't have a "let's simultaneously protect 2 or 3 survivors from being tunneled" situation.
Daisy chaining this perk, is basically saying that unless the killer is literally using their first 4 hooks on 4 different survivors, then they are tunneling. That is way too overboard for a definition of tunneling.
ok because we're getting tired of this circular nonsense:
In that numbered example what it says to us is this: It does not matter who you hook since people are still getting hook states. Its not saying "not" to chase them its saying it "doesn't matter" who your chasing. If they're actually chaining this perk (which is a tall ask and can backfire [the rescuer is found before the save, they use it when the killer is nearby allowing a quick down]) then tunneling becomes less effective hooking 4 separate survivors only because your not pressuring anyone else. That last part: "only because your not pressuring anyone else" is whats giving StB value against tunneling (and by that we mean: "Hard focusing on one particular survivor over anything else") otherwise its the same as if you've been hooking everyone because hook states are passed around, but not removed.Thats also not even remotely near any reasonable definition of tunneling so why worry about that?
but we shouldn't have a "let's simultaneously protect 2 or 3 survivors from being tunneled" situation.
Ok now correct us if we're misinterpreting this sentence: So if you can't tunnel survivor A then you should be able to tunnel survivor B or C or D and they shouldn't be protected in this same match if everyone miraculously has this perk?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864535#Comment_3864535
Well, to clarify:
We don't understand how this becomes mandatory if the 3rd is insta moried.
I didn't mean that player actually gives up, I mean by downing and auto executing the 3rd player, this suggestion forces the 3rd player to lose automatically, regardless of any other effects in the game, which has the same effect as if you're forcing them to give up… by forcing the 3rd player to die you're basically saying "well most players give up at this point, you've basically lost, so we're just gonna go ahead and make that decision for you and kill you".
I highlighted a whole bunch of ways this player can still escape, but there are still more, like Deliverance or Wicked, Adrenaline. No One Left Behind combined with Overcome or Dead Hard. The death of Unbreakable is really felt here... I literally have to use it before 2 players left, otherwise I just die.
By enforcing an instant 3rd player mori, great, you've solved slugging for the 4k... but in the process you've sacrificed so much and made the game a lot dumber... you've killed all of the ways a survivor player can clutch for their team... and not only have you have killed all the scenarios I've described, you kill all potential future ones as well.
As you say ideas should be explored... which is what I'm doing... and my conclusion following that exploration is that the suggestion to auto execute the 3rd survivor on down does far more to damage the game than slugging for the 4k does. You acknowledge you don't like it... I loathe the idea... I didn't at first, but the more I thought about it, the more problems I identified. It's a bad idea for more reasons yet than I've listed here... and I've listed a lot of them.
If we may tweek your idea, once survivors bleed out bar is below half (they've been slugged for 2 minutes at least) and they're fully recovered then they bleed out faster with all your goodies. This prevents most the extreme cases of abuse from both sides that we can see and helps 4 man slugging a bit as well.
Sure more restricted version. Though my only concern is likely this doesn't do enough to prevent the slug for 4k irritation. It's kinda taking 4 minutes down to 3 minutes, which I don't think addresses the primary concern.
As we said, it does remove clutch plays. These plays, while very satisfying, are not common (sans maybe deliverance [lesser extent wicked] but the 3 of us have only seen it once within 4ish months). Adrenaline example, you would have to pop that gen immediately (lets say immediately is: after the killer wipe animation) after the 3rd goes down and it would have to be just you 2 left alive. If multiple people have that scenario happen often then we're missing out.
…honestly not sure why we're defending this one. Argue just to argue maybe? ehh moving on.
As for more restrictions to your idea, we feel its needed because players will abuse any leeway without a doubt. Could maybe after a minute of the timer is gone, but we see people gonna try to bleed out faster for stupid reason if given half a chance…so we wanna make sure they dont get one.
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It was much MUCH worse in the past. At this point its "appreciate what we have" rather than "gimmie gimmie more".
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864362#Comment_3864362
Well, of the options presented, an instant mori on the third survivor being downed after 2 survivors are dead seems to come with the far greater negative of forcing the 3rd player to lose, even if they want to still try to win.
We're basically making it mandatory for survivors to give up once 2 players are dead and go for hatch... and I don't think that is a compromise I'd be willing to make... if a player wants to play and still try to survive, they should have the right to try, and this instant mori suggestion doesn't permit that... ergo it's an objectively bad suggestion that goes against the goal of the game.
If we're wanting to make it truly unbeneficial to slug for the 4k, the way to solve it would be allow a survivor to give up, but not force them to. If I were to take my old Desperation idea and jack it up:
After 2 other survivors are dead or dying and situation is at its most dire, unlock Desperation. When fully recovered to 95% or more in the dying state press the rush button to enter Desperation. While in Desperation: -
- You crawl 50% faster
- Make 50% more louder grunts of pain
- Bleedout 200% faster (3c/s or 70s from full bleedout (+30s to recover to 95%))
I used to have it at 150%, but if were trying to stop slugging hard, if you can bleed out in only a max of 100s, slugging for the 4k is far less profitable and a reasonable time to have to evade the killer. The killer is better off taking perks that activate off hooks to find the last survivor via aura reads rather than gamble on hatch... and the important difference here, is it's the survivors choice if they want to attempt to survive or not.
Now this comes with the obvious problems of players giving up, which is why the 2 other survivors condition is needed, and things like killer adepts and especially evil incarnate achievements/trophies starting to become quite near impossible, there is no realistic way to ensure you can catch all survivors even if you've effectively won the game, and some challeneges will also suck really hard as well for killer... to be honest it's pretty crap that the killer can't secure a 4k if they need to, and would make a lot of killer challenges awful... but that's the destination no matter what route we go in this thread.
However this is the route you need to go if you're gonna try and hamfist slugging for the 4k out of the game... You can't make it mandatory that a survivor has to give up. That is antithetical to the entire point of the game.
We're basically making it mandatory for survivors to give up once 2 players are dead and go for hatch...
We don't understand how this becomes mandatory if the 3rd is insta moried. Its effectively the same if 2 are alive already with gens needing done, they can either both hide for hatch, both work on gens, 1 gen 1 hide, etc. Only now they effectively have 1 "hookstate" (more accurate to say 1 down but we like dramatic). No one needs to give up, its a slightly less chance that both make it out and removing some clutch plays while for killers its an inconvenience because they cant use a hook perk then and cant slug that 3rd survivor.
Now we may not particularly like this idea but at this point all routes should be looked at. Yes some killer challenges will get harder (no cheeper [({our opinion])} way for the adepts, …we don't actually see evil incarnate getting harder from any solution to slugging for 4k we've seen…)
If we may tweek your idea, once survivors bleed out bar is below half (they've been slugged for 2 minutes at least) and they're fully recovered then they bleed out faster with all your goodies. This prevents most the extreme cases of abuse from both sides that we can see and helps 4 man slugging a bit as well.
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While this is true, we're also aware theres not going to be a pretty solution. The main thorn that comes in dealing with slugging for the 4k is that its the players freedom and agency. To actually remove it in a way that will keep "resonables" happy (and we're using both terms loosely) isn't gonna be done without impacting them. Your ability to use bbq to find that last survivor is also another's ability to leave that 4th slugged. Things like this why any solution for this is either going to be brutally simple and restricting or heavily to complex.
That being said, we don't really have any solution we like, so pick a poison and chug.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858511#Comment_3858511
Instant Mori on 3rd survivor down is not possible with Hatch offerings how they are. That's a guaranteed escape, cause Survivors just run away from the location of the hatch offering and the 4th gets out for free with no way for the killer to contest.
The only way you stop slugging for the 4k is you give the Killer Instinct on the 4th survivor when the 3rd survivor dies, then buff Sole Survivor to block this effect.
To be fair, retiring the hatch offerings is also on the table
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863927#Comment_3863927
Please play a game as killer, and throw 5 snowballs without moving your camera at all, and notice that the snowballs literally fly in multiple different directions, because BHVR purposely made them super inaccurate.
I know how to aim. When I'm playing survivor, I can easily hit a moving snowman, while I'm running, at a decent range… because the survivor snowballs are very accurate.
Mate, the deviation is literally not that much. Unless you're going for cross map pelting, we can hit with 80ish accuracy from the top of rpd stairs to the doorway (with vecna, don't know if each killer is actually different). And these are semi moving targets.
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863618#Comment_3863618
topic is about slugging but you changed it ;)
no survivor would bleed out for 4 minutes if they didnt crawl ;) not my fault you can't sit in one place since you can't do anything anyway. take that L and go for another game, your choice and 4 minutes waiting is your reward.
ok so its not guaranteed and you're just liar, making some stories to prove your point and you fail again and again. no, hooking 3rd is not as effective and you know that but you still choose to ignore… no surprisetopic is about slugging but you changed it ;)
From your previous post which is implying something different:
if you think that's stalling then what you say about hiding for much longer ??
So how are Survivors hiding for much longer than the bleed out? Think before you leap please, this is getting to easy.
no survivor would bleed out for 4 minutes if they didnt crawl
One, that's factually incorrect as there's killers that literally do bleed out survivors for kicks. Second off they wouldn't bleed out of the we're hooked would they? Third even if they stayed still, they'd probably be waiting close to the full time anyway while you desperately "search" for the 4th survivor. Can you prove any of these wrong?
take that L and go for another game, your choice and 4 minutes waiting is your reward.
Strange how that survivor hasn't lost yet. Firellius (sorry Firellius for the noise) also brought up this point and you strangely ignored it.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860640#Comment_3860640
not doing your job is stalling
The survivor's job is either to survive, which they're doing, or to escape, which they're also doing by making a hatch play.
sooo if they can't win
They CAN win. That's why they hide. It's their only way TO win.
Specifically:
They CAN win. That's why they hide. It's their only way TO win.
When you got a way to win do you give in? And before you try and compare that to slugging for the 4k, remember that killing the 3rd does not immediately give that 4th the escape. The killer is not giving up a single kill by killing the 3rd, unlike the survivor if they "took the L".
ok so its not guaranteed and you're just liar, making some stories to prove your point and you fail again and again.
So let's get this straight: We're liars because we used some poor choice of words because we inferred a thought, that we've been lying about things and failing to prove our point to everyone, and we're apparently ignoring this wholely factual truth that slugging for the 4k is better than hooking the 3rd. This all despite the fact we've pointed out what happens, pulled proof that we have atleast a decent grasp of how things work in the game, and how others are doing the same...wow…
Whatever kinda crazy you have can we get some for tonight's party?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863843#Comment_3863843
Have you tried hitting something with a snowball, as killer? Did you know killer snowballs fly in random directions, so it’s near impossible to hit something with a killer snowball unless the killer is like super close? The game literally forbids the killer from having any fun snowball fights.
...idk what to tell you except maybe aim better?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
The event was never marketed as a casual mode, and that is not a realistic expectation.
Also, this event mode often has a higher incentive than the normal mode, so it’s perfectly acceptable for anyone to join this event mode.
There's literally snowballs to throw at each other for nothing more than point and hi five snowmen that body block better than zombies…if it isn't realistic to expect a little more casual play in here we give no hope for anyone
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863548#Comment_3863548
its 4 minutes.. if you think that's stalling then what you say about hiding for much longer ?? and you understand that hook stages takes 70s unless you give up? it only takes longer for 3rd guy to die, it's not stalling XD the game is not longer because of that.
oh ok.. you clearly never played killer or doesn't understand at all how it is
how am i guaranteed 4k??xDDD you didn't explain how am i guaranteed 4k anyway. that's a lot of … nothing, you actually said nothing XD GOOD JOBSo are we talking about slugging for the 4k or 2 survivors up and hiding? Both bad as we've previously stated to Prometheus and yet there's differences. Do we need to spell it out again or want to read back some posts?
hook stages takes 70s unless you give up?
And it's still quicker than bleeding out. Tell us which one of these is the longest in seconds: 10, 70, 140, 240. If you picked 240 congratulations, you picked how long it takes for the full bleed out. Meanwhile two of the other ones can be shortened and 1 is basically negligible (10 is roughly death hook aka the dying animation, 70 is roughly second hook, 140 if you never hooked the 3rd). And we suppose we should point out the obvious that yes it's stalling and taking longer by virtue of BEING longer in actual time measurements. Your stalling to try and get a 4k, but it is stalling unless you know for sure where that last survivor is.
oh ok..
If that's truly the best you can think of then you obviously don't understand how others think. Or just want to try and make us look bad. Hard to tell. Also:
Sharing has never worked so well in our favor before.
how am i guaranteed 4k?
We suppose you would normally have a point that we didn't explicitly say, but on the other hand, you've spouted nonsense and harsh language already so we're giving ourselves a pass.
Many slug for the 4k to ya know GET the 4k, but since it doesn't actually increase the chance of getting the 4k under most circumstances if the survivor actually hides it out, it's not guaranteed. Meaning it's as effective as hooking that 3rd to begin with but with the "benefit" of wasting all the extra time.
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863223#Comment_3863223
im talking with YOU and YOU don't have any argument against slugging for 4k.
Well others have explained it but if you so desperately want to hear it from us:
- It stalls out the game. The killer is leaving the 3rd to bleed out to "look" for the 4th thereby increasing the time it takes that 3rd to die a vast majority of the time. If the killer is "looking" for the 4th while keeping eyes on the slug, then the most reasonable course is for that 4th to hide and wait for the bleed. What happens then? Survivor hides, hatch spawns and both the killer and 4th are where they would have been 4ish minutes ago if the killer killed the 3rd.
- In most cases its pointless to a majority. While Prometheus did have a point that its up to the killer for the "reason" to be good enough, many here including us, feel these reasons aren't as the killer has effectively won by practically all metrics. (Slugger: "Must have the 4k" Us: "Why?" S: "points" U:"your only getting a smidge more at best and losing points at worst if that guy bleeds out" S:"MMR!" U:"you mean that invisible number that was already going up if you caught 3? Why's it mater if it goes up slightly this round?" S: "cause they hid all game" U:"how do you know if they hid all game? Maybe you just kept missing them, maybe they did work but actually we're able to avoid you?" )
- Your not guaranteed the 4k anyway. Slight repeat of the above but slugging for the 4k doesn't mean your going to get it. Hatch spawns at survivors feet when the 3rd dies, outsmarting the killer and getting a door, finding a key in a box, etc. This then made the whole stalling worthless.
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863073#Comment_3863073
you compared teabagging to slugging one guy for max 4 minutes to get 4 kills and you dare talking about critical thinking…THINKING. u kidding? and now youre pretending like it wasn;t you XD like you proved something, proved im wrong, used actual argument. but you never did. it's pure ignorance what you did with that teabagging so now you're trying to ridicule me. you still have 0 argument, YOU turned this disscussion personal beacuse you have no arguments against slugging for 4k.
You realize that there's been multiple responses to slugging for the 4k from a lot of people and that you haven't really countered any of them other than hurl insults or tantrums correct?
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862032#Comment_3862032
so we ignore now how invalid your whole argument is… oh wait there is no argument
See we knew you had it in ya XD
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861550#Comment_3861550
teabagging is just toxic behavior… don't compare this to getting 4k XDDDDDD. that's ignorance.
You mean like some of the nonsense you've spouted?
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We'd love someone having the "off screen teleport" thing. As long as no one is looking at Jason he can "disappear" and "reappear" in areas not seen by survivors via high speed movement ala spirit (there's a more mundane way but we want this). Could give him a bear trap and some throwing knives (a single trap to block areas and throwing knives causing deep wounds or some add on related debuff like hindered/mangled/whatever).
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861683#Comment_3861683
Situational KI.
I think people forget that it's more than Killer Instinct, it disables Magic Items… ya know… the things that counter Vecna. Dispelling Sphere can be really, really damn good if you know when and where to use it, and most Vecna's dont know how to use it generally speaking so you wont really be suffering against it when playing against Vecna.
Flight that is infinitely worse than Dracula's teleport and has a fat cooldown.
Flight is definitely worse than Dracula's teleport, Im not contesting that, but there are many techs with Flight that make it really good.
The starting animation can be started and cancelled, and you lose collision with Survivors, it outright removes bodyblocking. Depending on how well you time it, you can even use it to push Survivors, a similar thing happens with the end of Flight so you can use it to push Survivors away from structures as well.
Blocking pallets, only for it to get dropped in their face the next time they get around the loop.
Vecna's Mage Hand isnt bad, it requires really precising times is definitely not easy to use. It also (of course) comes with the drawback of giving Survivors more resources or preserving Survivor resources if you misuse it, which makes it really, really punishing for new players.
Of course Mage Hand gets countered by Magic Items, but Dispelling Sphere removes it, and you can save your Dispelling Sphere to use on Survivors who has the Magic Item that gives them Haste on casting Mage Hand.
FotD is his best tool, but it only comes into play on elevations or when reading a vault.
Partly correct. It does shine when Survivors are animation-locked or when there is a difference in elevation.
…BUT, you can still summon Flight of the Damned directly onto Survivors for hits. Granted, Survivors have adjusted to this and some try to predict this to avoid being hit, but it's an extra way of using it that a lot of people tend to underutilized.
To this day I dont understand why people find Lich hard to play against
They waste too much time over Magic Items early on and get stomped because everyone is running around searching Chests instead of doing Generators. (Typically it is best to just do Generators and only check Chests when you are naturally traveling from place to place, going out of your way to get Magic Items and avoid objectives is just throwing the game.)
Also their powers have counterplay that either involve needing a specific item, predicting (where a lot of people tend to struggle, especially with Vecna summoning FotD on top of Survivors), and general game sense to deal with, which is overall more demanding than your average Killer.
I honestly dont think Vecna is as bad as people make them out to be, the issue tends to be that their whole kit requires a lot of skill and is extremely punishing for making the smallest of mistakes… kind of like Billy, back when they had Overheat.
They waste too much time over Magic Items early on and get stomped because everyone is running around searching Chests instead of doing Generators.
In our defense some people are really desperate to get that achievement due to the rarity of Vecna sightings
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How bout we buff Vecna? The 3 of us still need his achievement and buffing seems a good way to see more of him.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861649#Comment_3861649
Specifically talking about hiding forever, like I said if 3rd is alive, hatch doesn't spawn. Make what you will of that lol
Since that helps little: If 2 are alive and hiding forever then yes it wont help, if 2 are alive and 1 has been slugged then no hiding helps.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861633#Comment_3861633
The same place that 3 Genning before the kick limit had us. Then the kick limit was introduced to prevent that scenario of boring the opponents into submission over a long period of time. This is why many people's answer to the hide and seek dilemma would be for crows to become present when survivors go a significant period of time without making any progress on gens.
If survivors end up escaping after a 30+ minute stalemate, its most likely because the killer would rather leave the match than wait out the server shutdown and instead just let them go. Excessive 3 genning and excessive hiding are two sides of the same coin, but one will seemingly never be addressed.
Edit: narrowing down specifically to the slug for 4k scenario, both sides would react to the scenario in more healthy ways if the hatch was earned, instead of RNG. You can blame sore winners as much as sore losers for that.
We gonna hold off on this one cause we may have accidently responded under the wrong thing
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861633#Comment_3861633
It only does when the killer kills the 3rd. But if the 3rd is alive then hiding doesn't do anything. So when both hide it accomplishes nothing. I been playing it that way for about a week, want to know how many have escaped via hatch by hiding? 0. I have had many complaints about it but 🤷♂️ they are the ones hiding.
Confirmation: You are talking about 2 survivors hiding forever or the slugging for the 4k? We may have accidently blended your conversation with someone else.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861620#Comment_3861620
killer got new perk for similar play-style. it's unforeseen.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861621#Comment_3861621
it was information perk to optimize hex:ruin. Like i said, i do not understand why undetectable and information perks need nerfs
…So care to explain the thought process here cause we don't get what your trying to get at
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861618#Comment_3861618
Well I'm not looking for them, so in a way I am waiting it out. Waiting for them to come out of hiding while I patrol gens. At some point people will realise hiding doesn't accomplish anything. Doesn't get them the hatch, doesn't get them the escape.
Yet sometimes hiding does get us that door or hatch. So where's that leave us?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861525#Comment_3861525
the whole reason why people were running tinkerer was hex:ruin. the nerf just killed a non-gen defence perk.
So we got a question: The thing that annoyed us with tinkerer/ruin/undying was that tinkerer would keep alerting as soon as we'd get to a certain progress, which would then get killer to come straight away and drop progress via ruin enough to set it under the bar so it would trigger again unless the team found and broke both totems and hope the killer didn't have a tight 3 gen around it. If only ruin got changed what would have stopped killers from doing the same thing but with different regression perks?
Currently it's a moot point but what would have changed back then?
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Our mostly revolve around kyfs and the shenanigans we would pull on each other and friends. From instant full heals to use each other as a shield to moris on the offender to effectively playing mine sweeper with doc and jump scare Freddy.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861550#Comment_3861550
Yeah, but sometimes I'm just not in the right headspace to eat 1000 teabags and 'hey have a free hit…NOT' jukes to BM.
Why can't survivors just leave?
Because there's arses on the survivor side too.
We recommend learning to use snug, he heavily punishes those types of survivors.
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860811#Comment_3860811
what whe? XD youre alone bro
Ya know we were expecting some idiotic ranting...not sure whether to be proud or disappointed
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We don't think it should have a full playback feature (though don't think the devs could add it at this point anyway) but if it's only endgame details (maps, perks, score, the like) it wouldn't hurt that much and people couldn't use it to go full arrogant mode against others.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860868#Comment_3860868
You want to know what else does that… Wire Tap.
Plus the aura reading for Wire Tap does not require you to be Broken the entire game. It is gained through naturally progressing your objective (does not waste time). It has a lot of synergies with existing perks. It benefits the entire time. You only need to bring a single perk to get value.
Wire Tap is just objectively better in every single possible way.
The invocation lasts the rest of the trial after it's been cast, isn't tied to a gen, isn't gone when the teammate with it bites the dust, and can't be broken by the killer prematurely.
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To help the teams ability to stealth the killer
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860709#Comment_3860709
how is hiding and staying in one place playing game?? you're literally doing nothing. that's wasting time, take the L and go for another game or stop being p**** and play. you're job is completing gens and escape, if youre just hiding youre wasting time and stalling. if that's ok then slugging without even touching surv is good too. because 4 minutes is not 20 minutes ;) and it's always 4 minutes, it's always less than hiding.
who we?? who? who's "we"?? and where did you get that "whaterever reason"??? did you never read any comment? you have dozens of comments explaining why people slug for 4k, TO GET 4K, genius.
here's scenario. 4th guy is hiding (always wasting time), 3rd is pretending he is doing anything so killer will hook him but killer is smarter than 4th guy so he is not trying to attack 3rd guy or is not hooking him, starts to look for 4th guy.. he find him, he knocks him down, he goes back to 3rd but this genius was crawling all the time so now he is bleeding out, 4th got hooked, dead, 3rd died, killer wins… then at least one of them is crying on bhvr forum because killer was slugging for 4k ignoring the fact that 4th guy was wasting time by hiding knowing that killer wont play by his rules and ignoring that 3rd guy wasted another 2-3 minutes by crawling. that's literally most people here on that forum being upset for slugging XD.@alpha5 hey, like this one too? XD
Well if they're staying in one place then you should be able to find them pretty easy by searching the map~ They are playing the "hiding" part of "hide and seek". Know that game? You say the survivors job is completing gens and escaping. Your half right, it ONLY escaping (unless they got some other definition for winning), does not matter how. Because the killer slugged that 3rd, if there's more than 1 gen or if the killer is guarding said slug, then the best way to complete their job is to wait for the slug to die.
if that's ok then slugging without even touching surv is good too. because 4 minutes is not 20 minutes ;) and it's always 4 minutes, it's always less than hiding.
Gonna be honest here, we have absolutely no idea how you reached for that logic. Soooo hows slugging everyone equal to slugging for the 4k? If nothing else we'd think it would be longer than slugging for the 4k. Waiting 1 survivor to bleed vs 3 to bleed. Not even touching the heavy details here. Care to explain or you just shouting into the fog random things?
who we?? who? who's "we"?? and where did you get that "whaterever reason"??? did you never read any comment? you have dozens of comments explaining why people slug for 4k, TO GET 4K, genius.
Rulebreaker is a shared account by 3 of us. We say "whatever reason because they were literally listed and we didn't feel like posting each and every detail ohh venerable wisebutt.
here's scenario
So let's see if we understand this correct. It's still a 2v1, the killer had the 3rd at their mercy but chose not to "for whatever reason" hook, got the 4th, lost the 3rd due to incompetence or stupidity depending on what you want to call it (as the killer had that one at their mercy previously) and was bled out, which then causes survivors to complain about the 4k and people who then try to shift all the blame onto them due to not playing how the killer wanted...we'll let you think on how many mistakes are here and if you want us to actually explain everything but personally I'd want a drink first (probably the other 2 as well).
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860417#Comment_3860417
how is slugging for 4k not playing game? XD one is dying slowly so i have time to find 4th, he has chance to help 3rd or be pu*** and keep hiding but after 4 minutes and always 4 minutes he can't hide anymore… you rly don't understand why anyone is slugging 3rd surv, you are probably the 4th toxic surv who doesn't care about team and only plays for hatch hiding half game and then when killer doen't kill 3rd guy immediately you attack him after game. no, you don't deserve hatch if you don't even try to cooperate with your team… you play as team, if youre selfish and not helping them then you don't deserve to escape more than anyone, that's why i never kill 3rd guy immediately if 4th surv isn't around. that's not being smart lmao, you hide, you're not smart XD, you're not looping, stunning killer, using perks, you just hide XD
Shall we waste time explaining despite the apparent fact your not going to get it or going to ignore it? Of course we will, we're bored🎶
So as we said, if hiding while that 3rd survivor is slugged doesn't count as playing the game, then neither does slugging for the 4k. While that 3rd is slugged, the 4th has to survive the bleed out timer while the killer does whatever. The survivor is surviving (shocker) by avoiding the killer so they get the chance to escape after however long. The killer is searching for the 4th just as the 4th is hiding to avoid them. They're playing the game just as much as the killer in this scenario. Just because you don't think it is doesn't mean it's not.
What we understand is that people will slug for the 4k because they want the 4k for whatever reason. We wrong here? How so.
Here's a scenario, if we've saved people off the hook and healed them, did the equivalent of atleast 2 gens despite the stacked regression, took a chase or 2 and there's still 3 gens up. We suddenly don't care about the team by hiding when that 3rd survivor is slugged? Adding on, if that killer is competent they're also keeping an eye on the slug so how would it be smart to go heal them or finish a gen thereby announcing where we are? Hiding = staying alive long enough for the bleed out = smart. Logic 101 (this is sad that we're using more reasonable logic) As a bonus spite, it seems to really anger killers like you~
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860412#Comment_3860412
The double standard is that the list of "bad things that killers do" often helps raise their win rate. Pretty much every killer strategy that helps the killers raise their kill rate, is labeled and demonized as a problem.
Meanwhile, the list of "bad things that survivors do", often involve survivors just doing things purely out of spite.
To be fair it isn't mutually exclusive. Do these things help killers win? Sure. Can they be used out of spite? Sure. You can be an arse with these and it still helps "win".
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859004#Comment_3859004
Sometimes the slugged survivor did something cute and I want to let them live, but can't risk the two of them slamming that last gen together and for them both to escape T_T I know, its sounds very specific, but I am kinda regularly in this situation :D
Bonus points, if the 4th survivor gives up when I find them and I then have a hard time killing them off (unless they BMed me all game).
...well odd scene but it's still ultimately the killer responsibility. You as killer don't want to kill that one for whatever reason, in this case because they did something cute or a show of...mercy? (don't think that's the right word...)
@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860004#Comment_3860004
stalling game is not playing, the game is not moving anywhere, surv is not doing gens (thats their goal) it's almost like taking killer as hostage. hookig 3rd surv is basically giving up so camper can escape (he didnt deserve hatch after hiding, not doing gens and betraying 3rd surv).
Neither is slugging the 3rd survivor by that logic. The killer ain't really killing. By hooking you kill that 3rd faster to try for hatch which then forces the 4th to do something or die.
As we or atleast someone probably stated before trying to heal the slug when the killer watches them like a hawk is suicide, doing a gen thats not far away is also a death sentence for said survivor, so what do you expect that one to do? They deserved it just as much as the 3rd did far as we know. Betrayal is in the eye of the beholder, we don't think the other being smart is betrayal. We will criticize our teammates for not funny stupid but will rarely criticize for being smart.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860017#Comment_3860017
Your analogy is wrong because on this scenario the people on the line can simply ignore the person who went to get something and follow their lives. The parking spot analogy is much more precisa because the killer has something by right, and the survivor has to react to it.
Be mindful that the killer giving the shots does not mean that the last survivor has no agency. He can very well give the killer what he wants, but he decides not to. Therefore, the last survivor and the killer are in an agreement on what is going to happen: The last survivor is going to bleed out and the last one is gonna dispute for the hatch. They both are responsible for the time waste.
I don't slug for the 4k unless it's an adept, but I don't condemn people who do it because it's part of the game's objective. An AI would do the same thing, simply because it doesn't have feelings to feel bothered by the waste of time and it would want to kill as many survivors as possible. The problem is the incentive structure that makes slugging for the 4k the most effective way to get it consistently.
And you know what is hypocritical? Pretending that the last survivor who is hiding and letting the other one bleed out isn't acting on its own interests as well.
Your analogy is wrong because on this scenario the people on the line can simply ignore the person who went to get something and follow their lives. The parking spot analogy is much more precisa because the killer has something by right, and the survivor has to react to it.
The ignore in this case would be the equivalent of giving themselves up despite the fact that they've been waiting in the line for x amount of time and now got to wait in a new line. In addition, what was to stop the killer from getting everything checked out and then coming back? Or say "screw it its not important"? But if your determined to use yours then wouldn't the "reaction" be to hide which in the "scenario" be waiting for you to move then? Now correct us if we're wrong here when you say "by right" your implying to us that since you got the parking spot (we assume this is the 3rd survivor slugged analog) the other should "react"? Your "correct" analogy still does not compute here.
Be mindful that the killer giving the shots does not mean that the last survivor has no agency. He can very well give the killer what he wants, but he decides not to. Therefore, the last survivor and the killer are in an agreement on what is going to happen: The last survivor is going to bleed out and the last one is gonna dispute for the hatch. They both are responsible for the time waste.
Had a small aneurysm reading some of this. That aside should the survivor give up its game over, but then gives up on their objective in the game. Should the killer hook the game continues and still can kill the 4th and can force said survivor out of hiding. The killer isn't giving up on their objective in this scenario while the 4th has 2 and a half choices (give up, which if they do they might as well always as soon as the killer slugs for the 4k. Hide, which is where we're at now. Try to heal the slug, the half choices, which sometimes is a good option, but only when the killer isn't guarding the slug like a certain magic ring) The killer is actively choosing to stall their objective to gamble later for getting another kill instead of getting to that gamble faster via the hook. As above the survivor is "reacting" to what the the killer did, but since the killer did so it's their responsibility. Cause and effect as it were.
I don't slug for the 4k unless it's an adept, but I don't condemn people who do it because it's part of the game's objective. An AI would do the same thing, simply because it doesn't have feelings to feel bothered by the waste of time and it would want to kill as many survivors as possible. The problem is the incentive structure that makes slugging for the 4k the most effective way to get it consistently.
Cool good for you, we do when it's what we consider a dumb reason. Not the point is it? If we would program an AI killer we'd probably program it to kill as quickly and efficiently as possible. Unless they'd specifically program the ai to slug for the 4k, it would more than likely hook and kill that 3rd survivor if it has no clue where's the 4th is due to it being more efficient (Defined as: achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense) than randomly patrolling the remaining gens.
And you know what is hypocritical? Pretending that the last survivor who is hiding and letting the other one bleed out isn't acting on its own interests as well.
Ya know, we never said the survivor wasn't acting in their own interest~ What we said was that in most societies, the one calling the shots is responsible for the called shots unless that society is a hypocritical one.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860000#Comment_3860000
Your logic makes no sense. It's like if I park my car somewhere and you come and tell me that you want the parking spot for yourself. Of course I am not gonna give you the spot, I arrived there first. You can either wait for me to finish my shopping or go find another parking spot. Getting the 4k is the same thing.
The objective of the game is getting the maximum amount of kills you can, so of course killers want to get the 4k and they are going to use the most efficient way of doing that. If you put an AI to play killer and task it with killing the survivors, they are gonna slug for the 4k because that's their objective.
Yes, slugging for the 4k is boring, but some people find the satisfaction of a perfect game even more satisfying. Fun is not universal.
As I said, at this point in the game the killer is giving the shots, you as the last survivor want to escape as much as the killer wants to 4k, if you didn't, you would just give up. So the survivor is just as guilty as the killer for prolonging the game.
Your logic makes no sense. It's like if I park my car somewhere and you come and tell me that you want the parking spot for yourself. Of course I am not gonna give you the spot, I arrived there first. You can either wait for me to finish my shopping or go find another parking spot. Getting the 4k is the same thing.
Ok so lets put it this way: Its like the killer is shopping yea and is at the check out with the 4th survivor being the next in line and the 3rd being the clerk. Killer goes "ohh wait I forgot something, let me just go grab it real quick" so the clerk (survivor 3) and the next in line (survivor 4) must now wait for the killer to come back "real quick". If you couldn't tell, "real quick" is sarcastic. That parking analogy makes no sense to us as thats not whats happening.
The objective of the game is getting the maximum amount of kills you can, so of course killers want to get the 4k and they are going to use the most efficient way of doing that. If you put an AI to play killer and task it with killing the survivors, they are gonna slug for the 4k because that's their objective.
While we won't deny some are desperate for the 4k, but some of us don't give a F (for example the 3 of us). None of what you said explains why we should be sweating for the 4k. At all. This is your reasons why you would. We know we got enough points (we usually float around the cap cause we don't really spend much often), we know we killed a majority of the survivors, we know we have a very good chance of finding hatch and guarding doors, we know if they get out its mostly due to luck. Its more than enough for us. Also funny enough, we'd think an AI killer would hook survivors unless they immediately saw the last simply cause it would be both easy to program and more efficient.
Yes, slugging for the 4k is boring, but some people find the satisfaction of a perfect game even more satisfying. Fun is not universal.
Reread the above.
As I said, at this point in the game the killer is giving the shots, you as the last survivor want to escape as much as the killer wants to 4k, if you didn't, you would just give up. So the survivor is just as guilty as the killer for prolonging the game.
If the killer is "giving the shots" then the responsibility falls on the killer….thats how "giving the shots" works in every society that we know of sans hypocrisy. If they do it they do it but own up to it.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435315/seasons-greetings-from-the-fog
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859614#Comment_3859614
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RBDXCHQGRNCM/tmp.gif
I am beyond myself with gratitude. 💐💐💐
Sincerely, I love horror. I love this game. And I love this community. I’ve always found a home in the horror genre- I’m sure many of us can relate. For one reason or another we are all here enjoying this game together.
@TheSingularity (pre and post 😊)
@C3Tooth We all miss you
@CountOfTheFog 😊😄💐
@Shroompy 😊😄💐
+ Everyone else I didn’t list!!! 💐💐💐
I’m a huge fan of being the change you want to see. The above people have demonstrated a willingness to be that change while remaining their authentic selves. I see Dbd reflected in every single person listed and on this forum. These people will give you the best that they have to offer. Why not match that passion and be the change you want the dbd community to become? Why not? It can happen. They can help you get there.
I wanted to thank @For_The_People for being the first person from the forums that I’ve ever played Dbd with. He is a very sweet person who will give you his time of day in earnest if you need him to. He’s one of the prime examples of politeness in this community. Thank you for being a positive force in the community. 😊😊😊
Lastly I need to thank @solarjin1 . What can I say? When you meet a friend that gets you, you both just know it. Her courage to be funny and humorous is so infectious. She told me that the small pallet in rpd was the most op pallet. I was so naive of game knowledge that I believed her! LMAO! After that I realized that it was anything goes when it came to humor with her. I’m at my best when I can be silly. Solarjin1 is that friend who brings out the best in me. Thank you Solarjin1 for all the laughs and for the laughs to come 😂 I’m going to be collecting🤣🤣🤣
None of this would be possible if we didn’t have a phenomenal community team here to support us discussing this twisted hobby we all have. Thank you again to everyone at Bhvr for putting your hearts and souls (ha!) into everything that is Dbd.
They say you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar…
Let’s just use blood instead 🩸😈🩸
Happy Holidays everyone, I hope everyone stays safe and has a wonderful New Years 😊🎉
Truly thank you for the kindness you bring to everyone here on the forums
Happy holidays from the 3 maniacs~ -
@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859004#Comment_3859004
if you as 4th killer are hiding and not playing… you are the one making game longer than it has to be and slugging is only 4 minutes, much much less than looking for camper or chasing 2 surv who CAN'T win game anymore if its more than 1 gen
Forgive our sarcastic streak but this is to good to pass up~
So when did we get 4 killers? Why and how is a killer slugged?! Is the new killer Gary?! …wait thats a snail…Also hows a survivor camping?
Ok now that thats out of our system, semi serious mode:
As survivor hiding when it would be suicide otherwise is playing. Theres a limit to it of course such as 2 survivors just hiding without even trying to do gens, but if theres 1 slug 1 up then yes its very often in the up's best interest to hide. The killer isnt hooking meaning that 4 min wait is on them. Hooking that survivor is much less time than the 4 minutes or looking for the fourth (most times anyway). If your chasing a survivor then you have the ability to catch a survivor and hook them bar a major skill difference.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859004#Comment_3859004
Because the killer is giving them the proposal. You can either help the teammate and give the killer a more reasonable chance of getting the 4k, or you can hide and let the survivor bleed out. If you hide, it's your choice as survivor. You want to get the hatch and the killer wants to get the kill. It's that simple.
Also, ask yourself why gambling for the last kill with the terrible hatch mechanic is a reasonable course of action? If you should strife for the 4k every game, you should take the actions that give you the most chance of getting it.
By the point you are slugging the third for the fourth, you have already got the dominance to finish the game. All you need to do is finish it. Why give away the last kill if you have already won?
Also, let's say they make Unbreakable basekit. In this scenario, the killer would just slug the survivor over and over to get the 4k. Only 2 survivors are not going to repair 2 or 3 gens by themselves, and if they come close to finishing the last gen, the killer will just hook. Otherwise, they will keep slugging, but the difference is that they will have to down the survivor some extra times.
Because the killer is giving them the proposal. You can either help the teammate and give the killer a more reasonable chance of getting the 4k, or you can hide and let the survivor bleed out. If you hide, it's your choice as survivor. You want to get the hatch and the killer wants to get the kill. It's that simple.
Therefore that makes it the killers responsibility no? As killer you still have a major chance of closing hatch which forces that 4th survivor to stop hiding on pains of in game death.
Also, ask yourself why gambling for the last kill with the terrible hatch mechanic is a reasonable course of action? If you should strife for the 4k every game, you should take the actions that give you the most chance of getting it.
First because we showed our own superiority to sooth our egos by killing a majority of the team. Second it speeds up the game so we can get into the next match quicker, not even thinking about the survivors here, this is pure selfishness. Third we've been around since doc came out and seen how hatch was before, currently this is much better (if a little sad we cant do that 4 man hatch out). Fourth, why should we strive for the 4k every time? Unless pissed off we half arse everything and still manage to do very well and often have fun, so why should we sweat? This is a game for fun. Sweating every match don't seem like fun to the 3 of us. So tell us exactly: why we should make ourselves less happy?
Also, let's say they make Unbreakable basekit. In this scenario, the killer would just slug the survivor over and over to get the 4k. Only 2 survivors are not going to repair 2 or 3 gens by themselves, and if they come close to finishing the last gen, the killer will just hook. Otherwise, they will keep slugging, but the difference is that they will have to down the survivor some extra times.
…soooo where'd this train of thought come from? Don't think any Rulebreaker mentioned anything about this.
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- Unbound (we know the prefix atleast)
- 5
- C
- False
- A?
- 4?
- C
- True?
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We're kinda under the impression that it's not becoming more toxic, but the number of actual niceness is dropping fast.
We're not getting things like threats or hyper wannabe bully squads as much as we used too, but we're seeing less people just being decent humans.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859004#Comment_3859004
The killer can try for a 4k if they want to for any reason - it's ok to try to 4k every game if you want to. It does not make them a big meanie that needs their ego satiated.
The last survivor can try to escape/wait for hatch if they want to for any reason. I get a lot of hatch escapes in solo queue by playing lame when the game is wrapping up/it's a blow out.
Neither are responsible for the game design that wastes the slugged person's time if they both want to achieve these results when the situation arises.
The survivor does not need to give up to save that person's time and the killer does not need to hook that person to save their time.
We're aware they can but that said pretty sure that the slug is going to be thinking that though.
We're also aware they can and we're pretty sure some don't like that.
Both those said yes sometimes one party or another is at fault for the misery they inflict on one another. When there's options to not do something yet do so anyways it is on that player. Is it allowed? Sure but not everyone will be ok when it happens.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859032#Comment_3859032
Only way to prevent that is to proxy camp - which is complained about almost as much as slugging for the 4k.
You can absolutely lose people after an unhook. Hell, even people like Otz lose people. Blood puddles are nearly invisible on most maps anyway.
We were under the impression that we were talking about slug saves correct? When a survivor saves another via flashlight or pallets? If we miss communicated we apologize.
For what it's worth, if it's only 2 survivors left we'd rather be proxied on hook rather than proxied as a slug.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858991#Comment_3858991
To the first point, I agree nothing stopping the killer from hooking. You say rarely is there a good reason to stall for the 4k but I have already pointed out the reasons some killers might consider good reasons (mori, more BP, possibly adept achievement, because they don't feel a 3k is a win when survivor escapes hatch and BM post match). Not everyone will agree they are good reasons, but agreement isn't necessary. It's about if the killer feels the reasons good enough.
Second point, killers patroling keeping an eye on the slug. Its risky to heal yes and if the killer is lurking nearby then leaving a slug on the ground is no different to being left on hook when killer camps. It allows the team to do gens. Might not be fun for the slug but it's not fun being on a hook either.
Third point, yes in a way survivors are in part to blame for not coming out to do die, fact is the slug remains on the ground until last survivor has been found. If the last survivor wanted to they could concede, come out, both die and go next. But they don't because they want the hatch. Which is fine, both players killed and survivor are preparing for hatch situation but the reason the slug remains on the ground for the duration is because last survivor can't be found. It's interesting the double standards here tho. If the survivor was hooked the killer would still be able to go look for the last survivor and the 3rd would still be hanging from a hook doing nothing. But that's ok because it means they can suicide on hook. It's ok to suicide when they are on hook but not ok to suicide by coming out of hiding? That's besides the point tho, point is why the slug remains on the ground....reason being killed wants 4k and last survivor wants hatch. Both are to blame.
4th point, already explained the connection between slugging for 4k and hiding for the hatch. Killers slug for 4k because they know the last will hide so they want more time to find the hidden survivor. Why that survivor hides is due to the hatch. Clear connection right there. 2 separate issues yes but they are linked.
- Fair. Going to point out that due to this that it's going to cause endless misery to both sides but that's how the chips fall.
- Which is why people hide. If there's 2+ gens left and only 1 person up it's stupidly risky to finish a gen (unless it's far away) as the killer will probably go straight there and see you. Atleast on the hook it will end faster but that's beside the point and more below.
- Yeaaaa we're going to disagree here. That slug is staying on the ground because the killer wants them to for good or ill reason. Why should the survivor give up for the killer not killing? That one on the hook has 2 options to either wait on hook or die but the fact remains that they were caught already and either of those options are quicker than bleeding out (the hook even gives points [relatively sure more than recovery too]). The one not caught still does have a chance at escape via door or hatch but they also need to stop hiding as if the killer closes the hatch there's a death timer that forces their hand or does kill them. The game keeps going at a faster pace than the slug. Meanwhile what options does the slug got? Crawling away? Killer is going to keep an eye on them meaning that heal ain't coming. That player is stuck like that for the bleed out unless either the killer gets bored, the survivor gets bored, the killer finds the 4th, or the 3rd DCs, which last seeing bot logic, screws over the 4th.
- That really doesn't explain how they're connected. One has the killer leaving a survivor on the dirt able to be killed at basically any point to keep the game moving. The other has survivors holding up the game due to being cowards (probably not the right word but ehh don't care what you call em). One is on the killer the other on the 2 survivors. What your explaining is more why the last survivor hides when the killer slugs for the 4k, not why when the killer slugs 2 survivors hide for hatch or vise versa.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859004#Comment_3859004
Killer can try to kill that 3rd survivor. But it could go sideways if there's a save or something and then you've got two hiding.
Again, also, it comes down to:
- Killer's victory state is undefined. 3k is a house rule. 4k seems to be implied by BHVR, as they define it as 4 1v1s. So, by this logic, killer is losing once and winning three times.
- Survivors being inevitably BM on hatch or in gate, even if these are given. And nobody likes being BM'd.
If the save happened you very very likely have atleast 2 trails to follow, 1 with blood as extra help. This may sound like the usual "skill issue" but many killers have a hard time completely losing a survivor after a save. That said it didn't answer how the survivor is responsible for a killer slugging for the 4k.
As for the bullets:
- True it is undefined but also the 4k instead implied by Bhvr in a way we see. 3k still rises mmr, we get happy entity if we get 8 hooks with zero kills, you got a hefty amount of bp we don't see it. Even if it's 1 v (1 v 1 v 1 v 1) and could be interpreted as 3 wins with 1 loss it could also be interpreted as 1 survivor and killer wins with 3 survivors loosing.
- That's got zero to do with either "responsibility" (in the sense of its on them that this is happening) or having the 4th giving themselves up the reasonable course of action. Not to say it wouldn't be unexpected or possibly deserved but the killer is still responsible for slugging for the 4k.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858823#Comment_3858823
No, some of it is the hiding survivor's fault for also stalling the game out and some of it is why killers might slug for the 4K sometimes, namely the potential of two survivors taking the game hostage in a way BHVR don't seem to care about.
Well seems to have diverged then as it's turned into being about 2 survivors hiding trying to get hatch.
We do got questions regarding something in the op:
Nothing is stopping that last survivor from just conceding up rather than stalemating the game and wasting everyone's time further. At best, you have a slim chance at hatch, while the other survivors sit there and rot. You're just as responsible.
Since the killer can kill that 3rd survivor but isn't how does it make that 4th survivor responsible? Also what makes the 4th giving themselves up in this scenario the reasonable course of action?
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858823#Comment_3858823
I'm kinda surprised nobody else has questioned this because it's definitely the moment that's left me scratching my head.
Oh well. Until BHVR implements a systemic fix for this problem, I'll just continue to not do it on killer and bring Plot Twist on survivor so I can incentivize the killer to pick me up if I'm one of the last two.
Tbagging on hatch? Really? That's what you're worried about? I'm at 3500 hours and I rarely see that. Why do you even care, they're popping off because they won a coin toss, it's pathetic and laughable.
Glad to know we ain't the only ones who noticed
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858823#Comment_3858823
I think it's because it's all related, slugging for 4k is usually due to 2 v 1 situations so 3rd survivor is slugged left to bleed out while other survivor is hiding waiting for the hatch instead of healing the slug. A lot of complaints seem to be that survivors can't do anything when slugged so might as well go afk for 4min. But the reason why they are left for the full duration of the slug timer is due to killer looking for the last survivor so won't hook them AND the other survivor not healing the team mate due to hiding and also not coming out of hiding so killer can quickly down and hook the last one then go back and hook the slug. Which then leads to why this situation happens...being the hatch and if it's reasonable to hide out for the hatch or save the team mate from being slugged.
We know people have already pointed out the points that we're going to point out, but that's the point so we going to point it out again~
First the 1 down and 1 hiding situation. What specifically stops the killer from hooking that 3rd survivor? Fear of hatch? Ok why, since we already pointed out what the killer has done the trial, seems dumb to put it politely. If that third survivor is down already nothing really stops the killer from killing that one and rarely is there a good reason to stall to guarantee the 4k.
Second about healing the slugged mate. As we said before, the killer will usually patrol in a way that lets them keep an eye on the slug. If the hidden survivor tries to help the slug without a specialized build then they go down and the killer slugs them while they chase the picked up one and eventually gets them. That's practically a death sentence for both survivors so understandable they are unlikely to do that. We get it's not all the time but it's common enough that the 3 of us go and look with extreme caution. In addition if the slug actually does go afk after recovering (or sometimes after they been slugged) there's actually zero reason to try and pick them up.
Third:
But the reason why they are left for the full duration of the slug timer is due to killer looking for the last survivor so won't hook them AND the other survivor not healing the team mate due to hiding and also not coming out of hiding so killer can quickly down and hook the last one then go back and hook the slug.
...this sounds a lot like "survivors are to blame for not coming out to die". Remember that the common situation of "slugging for the 4k" is 1 survivor is slugged and 1 is hiding... meaning that 1 survivor is hook-able by the killer (less the killer lost the slug for whatever stupid reason). How is that the fault of the survivor?
Fourth we disagree that these (slugging for the 4k and 2 hiding all game) are related. Both are stupidly annoying true but aside from that both are their own separate forms of beepery.
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While we like the buffs to luck, wouldn't someone just throw something like a jar of salty lips as "insurance" to go to next?
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858680#Comment_3858680
Care? Not really. It's annoying enough that I'll try to prevent it in future.
That entire page long paragraph misses the point. I'll inconvenience someone for 4 minutes to avoid being inconvenienced for 20+. It's not only the fault of the hiders, it's BHVR's fault for having so many ways to avoid AFK crows. If they cared, this would have been fixed a long time ago.
Again - 4 minutes versus server closing time. Neither are great, but one is objectively worse than the other.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858799#Comment_3858799
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y6KU1QVNX4M4/image.png
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858814#Comment_3858814
And posts like this contribute to killers being mean. Because if you legitimately want them to suffer, then…well, isn't turnabout fair play?
(The game isn't balanced around solo queue. SWF versus killer is pretty balanced, some things excepted).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858798#Comment_3858798
It is what it is. If they wanted it fixed, it would be fixed already.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858760#Comment_3858760
Hatch - minor concern, mostly because BM can be annoying.
Hiding - major concern. Especially if they somehow manage to unhook or pick up.
It's easier just to camp the slug. Sucks, but hunting all over the map for 2 survivors who want to troll sucks more.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858752#Comment_3858752
Survivors give up because they want to go to the next game. I'm completely against it, but I understand. Time is valuable.
Now, apply this logic to 2 survivors potentially taking the match hostage in a way BHVR does not seem to want to fix or take action on. Slugging is preferable.
So we may have missed something at this point and want to be clear on everything. This thread was originally about slugging for the 4k and how some of it is part of the survivors fault for not coming to the slugs rescue correct? Its now become about 2 survivors hiding and waiting for 1 to die so the other gets hatch?