Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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The worst case we can think of is how when you just in time lose a slug to this due to team interference and lose out on hook perks. Otherwise there's little drawbacks from the top of our heads. We'd be content with this, little extra panic for both sides
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@UknownShredder said:
Can someone kindly tell me what they are changing ? best regards.
@Mandy said:
The Dead by Daylight team announces several roadmap updates and previews a lineup of gameplay changes, quality of life updates, and general game health improvements to come.
Dead by Daylight will be undergoing a substantial Quality of Life Initiative, which should address many longstanding concerns and frustrations our players have been experiencing.
This Initiative will take place over the course of two phases. The first runs from April to June, while the second runs from July to December. For a full look at what’s scheduled, check out the roadmap below.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WFJ7655GDGHQ/image.png
To accommodate for the scope of this Initiative, we have decided to delay several of our upcoming releases – including Chapters, Rifts, Events Modifiers, and Collections. That means there will not be a PTB tomorrow, but rest assured that we did not make this decision lightly.
We feel confident that delaying our upcoming releases to prioritize this Quality-of-Life Initiative will ultimately make Dead by Daylight stronger than ever. We’re always listening to our players, and this has been a long time coming.
Looking for a more comprehensive breakdown of everything lined up in Phase 1? We’ve got you covered.
Surrender StateThe team has been working on a Surrender feature, which should limit player frustration on both sides. To get it right, we first needed to identify the situations where its use would be most appropriate, leading us to two scenarios:
- All remaining Survivors have been slugged (Survivor)
- All remaining Survivors are bots (Killer)
Once these instances occur, players will be able to use the Surrender option, ending the Trial while retaining the Bloodpoints they’ve earned and escaping the Disconnect Penalty.
Gamma Adjustments
Dead by Daylight can get a little dark – not just thematically -- and sometimes excessive darkness can hinder playability. We’re introducing the ability to adjust Gamma settings on all platforms, allowing you to find a sweet spot without sacrificing the intended artistic direction.
“Go-Next" Prevention
The “Go-Next” expression refers to instances where a Survivor deliberately does everything in their power to quickly go to their next game – including walking up to the Killer and standing still, running to a Hook and repeatedly pointing at it, or most commonly, intentionally failing Skill Checks while on Hook.
To disincentivize and properly penalize this behavior, we’ll be implementing measures that will help us identify when a player is attempting to “Go Next.” Once identified, they’ll receive a Disconnection Penalty Point and lose an entire Grade. We’ll be keeping a close eye on this system to ensure its accuracy, but we’re confident that that this will help alleviate the issue.
On the other hand, we’d like to reward players who stick it out through those challenging matches, even when things take a dire turn. We’ll be moving forward with a new Emblem-based multiplier that grants additional Bloodpoints during your following match, with the bonus stacking over consecutive Trials.
Extreme Hiding & Body Blocking Prevention
“Extreme Hiding” refers to Survivors drawing out an unwinnable match by ignoring their objective and waiting out the clock.
To combat this, we’re changing the way AFK Crows operate, so they can more accurately identify when a player is deliberately avoiding engagement with their gameplay objective. Once a player receives Crows, their location will be immediately revealed to the Killer.
We’ll also be incorporating a feature that allows players to lose collision after receiving a third AFK Crow, which should prevent instances of Body-Block related griefing.
Map Offerings
We recognize that Map Offerings are a bit divisive; some players enjoy them, while others feel they can grant an unfair advantage. The fact that they automatically bypass both the Map and Realm repetition system can also add to that frustration.
Moving forward, Map Offerings will no longer guarantee the appearance of a given Map, but rather increase its chances by 20%. Note that they will not stack. We’re also looking to make it so Map Offerings, as well as several other types of Offerings, will remain a secret during load-in – that way, your decision to remain in the match will not be swayed by external factors.
Spawn Rules
Survivor spawn placements can have a significant impact on a Trial’s outcome, an observation that has been repeatedly recognized by our community. It’s become clear that Survivors spawning separately, and thereby covering more ground, allows them to gain a notable advantage in completing their objective.
We’re changing the default Survivor Spawn rules to ensure that each Survivor will spawn within 12 meters of one another, on the same floor (if applicable). To accomodate for this change, Shroud Offerings will be adjusted accordingly.
Improved AFK Bot Detection
Players that use AFK Bots can be frustrating to have in your Trial, and we’re working on improvements to our detection systems so that we can quickly identify and penalize them accordingly.
Bulk Bloodpoint Spending
To speed up general Bloodweb activity, we’re adding a button that will allow you to spend Bloodpoints in bulk.
Quest SystemPreviously announced last year, the Quest system is part of a larger update to The Archives and Rifts, so expect more information in an article specifically dedicated to that. For now, know that we will be reworking the Challenge system (as well as Daily Rituals) to reduce the grind, make it easier to earn rewards, and increase the overall level of fun.
Perk Loadouts & PreviewAfter a successful round of A/B testing, we’ll be allowing players to see their own Perk loadouts while in a lobby, as well as adding additional Perk loadout slots.
We believe these changes will be an overall benefit to Dead by Daylight’s health, further establishing a positive gaming environment for all our players. We’d also like to thank you for your patience and understanding during this time.
We’ll be back at our Anniversary Broadcast in May to recap Part 1 and provide deeper insight into Part 2 of our Roadmap, so keep an eye out for that announcement. In the meantime, we’re looking forward to hearing your thoughts and feedback.
Thanks for spending time in The Fog,
The Dead by Daylight Team.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886214#Comment_3886214
Are you not reading what I'm writing? I said my suggestion for surrender was what I wrote about gens completed compared to survivors sacrificed.
The 3 gen system and anti face camp have only solved the extreme cases of what they are trying to prevent. Both of those strategies, knowing when to kick gens and standing more than 2 feet from a survivor still allow the killer to execute both of those strategies. Also, none of those systems involve the automated flagging of an account that results in negative action taken on them. This would be a first.
I'm not jumping any shark. I am asking the questions that need to be asked, otherwise we will get a half baked system that will wrongfully ban players. Apparently some people are okay with that.
I said my suggestion for surrender was what I wrote about gens completed compared to survivors sacrificed.
The reason survivors would often go next is because there was no way to surrender an already lost match and save some time. With the addition of the surrender option, this pain point is alleviated.
You are referring to this correct?
We have pointed out that the pain point isnt alleviated if you only add the surrender option if only 1-2 wants to give up. And add on, many survivors see "a lost match" when they go down in 30 seconds, see a killer they dont like, and so on. They either get to leave via surrender which gives the remaining players a bot which then probably cascades to the rest surrendering (especially considering the backlash bots got in 2v8), or they don't get to leave via surrender and try to get the killer to kill them/hook swings as they currently do.
You might not trust the devs on making these but we are willing to wait and see what they do with these systems before any harsh judgement.
We simply typed a solution we thought would be enough and our opinions with reasons why we think both should be implemented at the same time. Like Brimp above said, its better iron out the kinks sooner rather than later. Your making it sound to us like it will be dooms day if its implemented at the same time when we don't even know how its going to work. To us, it really sounds like shark jumping. For example:
It is impossible to have a programmed system correctly identify these three points described without making wrong judgements. If ONE player is penalized for something they didn't do, the system is a failure, end of story. This system should be a last resort.
If that offends you we're sorry, but its how we see it.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886130#Comment_3886130
No, Legion is the problem, not the teammates. I am saying you cannot compare Legion to 1v4 because there is no second killer to cleanup the mess. I am saying you cannot compare Legion to other killers in 2v8 because there is not another killer that can run around the map in power chasing killer instinct potentially injuring at least half if not every survivor in one power usage.
I understand you do not agree with this and that's fine but if you really cannot see there is a difference in pressure between Legion and every other killer then you clearly need to go play more survivor
And whats the problem with legion? Their power to run around and stab? Their nerfed power from 1v4? We certainly can compare them to other killers in 2v8 as sans the mend time and tracking (which killers get alot of already in 2v8) every killer can practically do what legion does, which is hurt people. Theres little practical difference when a good wraith/nurse/insert killer hits you and moves on and their good wesker/huntress/insert killer partner cleans up.
I swear to the entity, were STUCK playing survivor already! We've seen good and bad legions with good and bad partners. We've had good spirits and wraiths do practically the exact same thing as a good legion. What everyone keeps saying is hate legion because of mend time (standard power and was nerfed), their teammate (not even a legion problem), or their tracking (while semi validm its in 2v8 where theres such a large amount already that its rather diluted). -
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886121#Comment_3886121
Despite your claim that it's "common sense," I've given examples on it not being the case, which is my entire point. Something YOU or even the developers think as an "all encapsulating" system would wrongfully punish players who inevitably do things that were outside of your predefined "acceptable" criteria.
If a survivor is allowed to surrender, it may dissuade them from going next, as they now have a valid avenue to leave the match. It's really that simple.
The part about punishment systems is that most do not give a verbose reason as to why action was taken, and especially so if your action did not have the intention of "going-next." "Jumping the metaphorical shark" is wrong. I simply asked if you would like it if this system wrongfully punished you. This isn't an exercise in the system's implementation, but the outcome.
….your really going to tell us that leaving a game to deal with an emergency isn't common sense? We also never said its all encapsulating. Our suggestion simply solved those immediate concerns that were reasonable to the points given. And given that so far the devs have been fairly reasonable when implementing things like this (the anti 3 gens, anti face camp) we're willing to give a chance to see what they're planning before throwing ourselves to paranoia.
And if a survivor is allowed to surrender theres 3 survivors left with a bot at best and at worst all being forced to surrender or risk the 1 trying to "go next" at worst. From what we saw the surrender is only for 4 man slugs/ 4 man bots.
It is jumping the shark because you dont know what theyre going to do as well do you? If you know for certain what the plans are, share them. Your calling doom when no one knows anything. You asked us, and we quote: "Would you be for this automated system still if hypothetically it decided randomly that you were going to be falsely flagged for "go-next" behavior?". It would not be "wrongful" if we know what the cause is.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884573#Comment_3884573
DIfferences are
Blight, sure fast however uses rushes, loses rushes and has to recharge them, cannot get multiple hits with one power and requires some skill plus has to find survivors
Wraith has to come out of power for the hit, then go back into cloak to unclock again for next hit plus has to find survivors
Spirit has to wait for phase to charge, come out of phase for a hit and wait for it to charge again and requires some skill plus has to find survivors
Nurse has to wait for blinks to charge and requires some skill plus has to find survivors
Huntress has to reload hatchets, have at least decent aim plus has to find survivors
Legion requires no skill to go in power, hit someone, follow heartbeat while still in power, smack next person and keep going all while speedy and in power.There is a world of difference.
Does this change what happens when you face a good blight/Wraith/Nurse while injured? Again we were told by you the problem legion in 2v8 is their teammate (which isnt a problem with having legion here to begin with), has the goal post moved to legion makes it easy to injure? We'll ignore how legion has to find people to start with like everyone else, has a cd, practically cant down with their power, how everyone in 2v8 has basekit no where to hide and a watered down version of dark sense to find survivors.
Everyone can hate legion all they want, thats their opinions and feelings, but legion aint breaking the freaking mode/are op/adding some new type of misery. Thats where we're getting at.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886023#Comment_3886023
My point about bt was to show you that there are hundreds of "what if" scenarios that all cannot be accounted for with one system. To focus on the bt example as my point shows you are missing the forest for the trees. There are many plays that, in a vacuum, seem like a player is throwing or wanting to go next. I actuality, these plays are trying to save another player or allow the rest of their team to win.
Not knowing how something will be implemented is the root of my concern. It's all fine and dandy to say "oh this is what our system will do," but when you actually get down to the brass tacks, you need to know how it's implemented, down to the very last detail. This is programming. There is no room for ambiguity when it comes to a system that hands out punishments to players in an automated fashion.
Your last paragraph misses the point about not being able to differentiate which system is pulling the weight. If you have both systems, you cannot accurately gauge which system is preventing players from wanting to go next. I never had the delusion that any system up for implementation would be free of flaws, but my concern with this system is that its flaws will outweigh its benefits. I understand that a lot of people that play this game have a very heated opinion on people going next and want a fix now, but to hurry and rush out a massively flawed system to the detriment of the game and the community is not the way to go about it.
Would you be for this automated system still if hypothetically it decided randomly that you were going to be falsely flagged for "go-next" behavior? If not after one occurrence, how many times?
Then why are you asking for a practically perfect system (and yes you we're practically asking: "If any player is wrongfully punished by this system, it is a failure.")? Some of your "what ifs" are odd, such as first one in the opening for example can be solved by the simple timer and the emergency one via common sense. There are many plays that could be seen as throwing but are helpful, but in the same breath they can also be used to give up. After all whats to stop the one who wants to give up from body blocking and taking the killers agro to die? At what point does repeatedly pointing at the hook (with/without someone on it) go from trying to communicate to being a troll? From what we understand you want specifically for the "go next" system to be thoroughly thought out and cooked. Thats fine, but we're of the opinion that they should be together.
If the root of your concern is a lack of info why not ask for details on it instead of immediately trying to get 1 system before the other (and to our knowledge nothing has been said if 1 or both will happen first anyway, looks to be at the same time)? You simply made an argument with your reasons for having the surrender option first. You're welcome to ask for one first but don't go picking at us about unknown details when your in the dark just like the rest of us.
To the "which system is pulling weight" paragraph we have 2 questions. "Don't they deal with relatively separate issues?" and "Does it truly matter?"
For the 1st question: From what we've read the "give up" system is aimed at 4 bots/4 slug situations. From what we've read the "go next" system is for those who give up via getting killed. Why would they need to gauge?
For the 2nd question: With only the "give up" system as we said people can still "go next" free of charge as they currently can via self swing, walk to killer, yada yada. With only the other survivors are stuck in a match bleeding out or the killer is stuck in a match with 4 bots of which misery abounds. Having both these stops both ends of pain. In addition because these tackle separate things from what we can see so does it truly matter that both are in at once?
Having concerns about either system is very valid, we do however question some of these reasonings of trying only to get 1 first since they can and probably will need tested and fixed.
Depends on what you mean by "randomly". Should we know what triggers it then happily as many times as we did trigger it because it was told to us what triggered it. If its actually random then none because we wouldn't know what triggered it. When the system comes around then we'll be able to see what triggers it in more detail and have new opinions. At the current place in time its just jumping the metaphorical shark.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885889#Comment_3885889
For your first point: imagine two different survivors, one with bt who was recently unhooked and another survivor who is injured but was not recently unhooked. Your proposed solution would be to penalize the survivor who does not have bt, and not to penalize the player with bt because of a short cooldown. Now imagine that the same survivor with bt was trying to unhook themselves to go next or was not saved the first 70 seconds on hook and now wants to leave the game. That player is running to the killer to exit the match, but the system will not penalize them because of your proposed solution. Likewise, a player who is injured but not on their final hook stage is running to body block a killer from tunneling a survivor on death hook. That player will be penalized while trying to actively make a good play. I completely disagree that the solution is easy, as this example shows.
For your second point: so just because farm games are rare means it's okay to make them extinct with this change? Farm games are a wonderful breath of fresh air that remind a lot of players that we're all here to have fun. What about a player who points at a hook to let the survivor ON the hook know to follow them? Again the ambiguity of the TWO emotes we have in this game to coordinate with random survivors will be negatively affected by this system.
For your third point: just because some killers slug to avoid this game state does not mean that all killers do. I still see this sort of game state at least a few times a day. Also, what about after 20 seconds have passed and the skill checks are getting harder to hit? I completely disagree that this is an "outlandish worry" due to how the mechanics work, but you're free to have that opinion.
Even if a system has a million "but if, but if, only if, only if, etc." to curb bad player behavior, there will still not be enough cases covered to guarantee that any player is not wrongfully punished for a behavior they did not do. If any player is wrongfully punished by this system, it is a failure.
- The one not recently unhooked would not be penalized because they would be out of the timeframe. When someone gives up by running to the killer what do they do? They sit there. Thats the kind of timeframe we're talking about. If they go down within the timeframe of hit-wipe-hit then its very clear that person has either given up or gone afk. The timer doesn't need to be tied to the unhook as well. If the timer starts on a hit then that second example would be penalized if they strictly gave up and only penalize that third example if they took a down via standing still. All this said, your point was SPECIFICALLY about a BT body block.
- As we said, we don't know how its going to work so unless you have information that we don't know about and aren't sharing we see this (farm matches) as a non issue until we have more info. How many pointings does it take to get the message across [a tootsie pop commercial is playing somewhere]? The emotes require some minimal brain power and a willingness to listen to the other player. If it takes 3 or more pointings then yes, we have no mercy for that.
- True that not all killers do this (thank the entity) but again, we don't know whats going to happen with this system. Will it be off if all but 1 is on hook? Will it show no mercy? That first one will allow the 3 to die quicker on hooks, the later wont. As for the second half, to each their own opinions then but we'll happily go on record typing that the hook skillchecks aren't very hard after the first few hrs playing the game (bar actual handicaps which should be an accessibility worry).
This is going to sound a bit rude so I apologize on our behalf but guess what? Nothing is perfect. Theres going to be flaws in both systems and testing them both together would (atleast to us) be the better idea as they're both going to be in the game together anyway. Theres also the fact that only putting 1 at a time has flaws. For example: If only the surrender is added, what if 1 person wants to surrender and the other 3 dont? That single survivor can go run to the killer, point to a hook or something, and promptly try and die. Without the "go-next" prevention they get to do so free of charge and thats what they're heavily likely gonna do if they're the type that these things are trying to curb. Theres similar situations as this. We're sure you can fill out the opposite number of "what if they added only the "go-next" first".
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As people said, chaotic. The only consistent thing we noticed is that red ranks had more sweats and everything else was a grab bag skill wise. Think the first 2v8 but as a 1v4.
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Honestly we feel they should be put at the same time.
To the points:- It would be easy enough to implement it to know the difference between letting the killer have you and taking a bodyblock hit from bt. A short countdown would do.
- For an emergency the player should probably be afk if its an actual emergency and not be pointing at the hook. Farm games would take a hit true, but those are heavily rare outside events and if push came to shove they could disable it during events (and cause all kinds of hell).
- As killers are unfortunately already slugging to bypass this its rather moot…as for if they can't hit skill checks thats something new players have to learn and having the game on mute won't affect that unless that survivor is not paying attention. Theres a point where genuine concerns bleed into outlandish worries.
The above said, it again depends on how they implement the systems. They could do a good job or the expected job, till we have details on them its just a guessing game.
[In a hilarious way its like how killers abused camping and 3 genning and got those smacked.]
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885422#Comment_3885422
More like the opposite effect. Killers don't chase survivors who obviously want a chase
There! Another advantage~
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They already give an advantage. The shiny ones make you a slightly brighter target for the killer to see, making them more likely to notice and chase you instead of your teammates.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883769#Comment_3883769
Who's we? Your alt accounts?
So then why do Killers slug? Why does that P100 Blight slug at 5 gens or why does the p100 Nurse slug at 5 gens? In fact, why is every Killer in DBD constantly slugging…. or camping/tunneling if they even do hook? Why in comp DBD, is the Killer pretty much required to tunnel out one player in a nerfed SWF?
The game balance will always be ######### if SWF are not brought back down to earth where the rest of Survs play, which is why this game has gotten more unpleasant as time has gone on. You're all aware of that though, you just ignore it because you want your current power role playing with friends, I'm not going to be bullied by people like you for simply stating reality.
We Rulebreakers is this shared account. Believe us if we had alts you'd be getting alot more snark than you are now.
Why? Because they want to. Because they "believe" that they can't win without doing so. Because they had an opportunity presented and took it. Because they're scared of hatch. Everyone has a different reason just like how not every killer slugs. We swear we had conversation kinda like this with someone else…but we digress.
The funny thing is that being in a SWF doesn't make a survivor instantly good. Your aware of this correct? Thats a reality right there. We're not really ignoring anything, your just blowing swfs so far out of proportion that we want to make sure if your genuinely serious or not. Does a swf have an advantage? Sure. Does being in a swf multiply the threat of survivors to demonic levels? Nope. -
[There was one match of chaos shuffle with Chucky on Eyre. Chucky got a decent build (two slowdowns, some tracking perk, and a hex) and was doing pretty well for himself despite the fact there were 2 survivors who kept trying to harass him. Game goes by, people getting hooked, gens getting done so on. Cut to the point where there's 2 gens, the two tweedles are dead, and both me and the last random are death hook. Lucky for everyone I had the perk to save us. Bardic Inspiration. Turns out Chucky is a fan of James' amazing lute skills and decided to let me and the random live after a couple of performances~]
(I had a match as a demo dog in suffocation pit that was similar. There was 2 survivors in particular who caught my attention, a feng who out played me twice and a yui who must have had a blind challenge cause she kept trying to blind me at every moment. Even as the game went on and was mauling them she wouldn't learn to not try and poke the dog. Feng meanwhile Feng bought herself breathing room after she was practically farmed by playing a song (that alone was kinda shocking) and made herself scarce afterwards. Eventually it's her and feng on deaths door and as I down yui I see feng. What does she do? She tries to beg for yui's life and tried to serenade the doggo. I promptly ate the yui after the show, but the thought still counts.)
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884589#Comment_3884589
No, just survivors lol if you're only playing killer in 2v8 then yeah, that'd be why you haven't noticed the bots taking them
Pitty, would have been hilarious to see. We'll take people's word for it since we don't pay enough attention to bot hook states as survivors.
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@GingerMick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884586#Comment_3884586
I would never have guessed that Ermac played DBD during their downtime when they're not competing in Mortal Kombat. That's awesome.
...wut? 🫥?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884539#Comment_3884539
Gotta watch their hook states. I consistently watch them go down, that's how I know.
Wait, can the killers see them go down? That'd be kinda funny actually XD
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884562#Comment_3884562
their strength isn't in them themselves but what they bring to a duo, and I'm just over listening to someone who doesn't care or listen to what's annoying about it. So just stop. Enjoy RPD Legion/S tier killer as I said. I hope you get it enough that you FINALLY understand why the casual playerbase hate it so much.
When I play Legion I'm never out of my power in 2v8, that's not normal, I'm getting so much value from it its insane, its very easy to use with little punishment, it feels AWFUL to go against. Like you're not even respecting my opinion, so why should I respect someone who comes across as mocking me RPing their opinion while shooting mine down in flames when it's how I feel. lolWe weren't disrespecting it either. We made a statement saying we don't get it and have explained why we don't. The rudest thing we did was calling saying counting to 8 isn't rocket science. If we came across as overtly rude before we're sorry for that but they are literally just bringing themselves [we're distinctly less civil now so we're less sorry for this]. Wraith can do much the same as legion can as a support.
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@upsideinsanity said:
The difference in 1v4 is you do not have a second killer to come behind and kill all of the injured survivors. Legion gets injuries faster than people can heal so then you have a blight or decent huntress behind them, there is not a whole lot you can do. Imagine going against any of the other killers with no mither, its similar (not the same) to that. You either stay injured to work gens and give the second killer an easy down or you waste a ton of time healing.
And then thats the problem with legion? Their teammate? Not legion themselves? We got another question then. Lets say a good blight injured you and left you to go murder someone else. What would you do? Would you go looking for someone to heal you? Would you use a medkit you had on hand to self care? Would you do a gen while injured? Depends on the situation right? Same thing. Sometimes your gonna need to work injured against a good bleet, huntress, crow, whatever and need to be more cautious (in 2v8s that usually means lockers or booking it at first sign of trouble). If the partner was super good then you were going down anyways and legion just speed it up by smacking you and running off just like if a wraith smacked you and ran off.
Lets move the scene. Say that in this 2v8 theres a good (skill wise) huntress and spirit. This spirit has been going for hit and runs rapidly, bouncing all over the map just hurting people with an occasional down. Huntress meanwhile cleans up the injured via hatchet applied to face. Switch out spirit for legion and theres little practical difference from our point of view (atleast if the huntress in this scenario is part of the duo or is paying enough attention).
[Apologies if we sound snappy. Having our civility being spited irked some of us]
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884556#Comment_3884556
If you don't get the hate, then you aren't listening at all and thats okay, you've voiced your opinion I tried to make you listen and your just ignoring how people feel, that's not on me at this point. I hope you get legion every game on RPD for the remainder since you enjoy it so much <3
Welp, we we're being nice about it but we see your going to go down that road. We are reading what you typed and you've been pretty much been explaining a typical match with legion. NarkoTri1er above is pretty much explaining typical legion matches to us. Whats different here other than more people and another killer? What is legion specifically adding that new to them making them become more hated? There 2 things that we can think of, the first being that this is the same hate as 1v4 and everyones just being more whiny and the second is the ChurchofPig above is correct in their guess.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884539#Comment_3884539
Oh they use greens quite often, tho I've never seen them use a yellow before. I think they're coded to be more empathic anyway, so they could be ignoring them on purpose for players to use them
We realize we worded our post a little poorly XD
None of us have seen a bot use any herb strangely, in fact I personally saw a bot completely ignore one (didn't pay attention to the color though) -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884552#Comment_3884552
Okay, I just can't see how someone would think all of it is okay? Maybe you havn't played against a good duo using it yet.
If you dont mend immediatley you aren't doing gens is what I'm saying, I can't control others who allow the chain to keep going, I only have so much time on a generator if that makes sense before i have to run around in circles and stall. they kick the gen and keep going its a vicious cycle, and the other killer stops you from doing the gen, if you are too aggressive.We have. Its just like HeroLives above, its just our own opinion but unlike them we don't really get why the almost skullmerchant eques hate they're getting. To us they're as annoying as they are in 1v4 or possibly less for the reasons we stated.
You can do gens while deep wounded, you just have to eventually fix yourself but thats beside the point. From what we're understanding (which could be wrong) you dislike that they keep coming back after they stab a teammate after you mend?
I can't control others who allow the chain to keep going, I only have so much time on a generator if that makes sense before i have to run around in circles and stall.
The chain continuing is basically an extreme version of normal 1v4 legion. In solos you have no control whether or not your team gets hit. The second half to us thats basically just any killer coming back to us/happening upon us. Legion, Billy, Blight, Wraith, its like them hitting you, going off and smacking others then coming back/to the gen you happened at. They kick the gen your teammates may or may not be there to stop the regression, same as normals except that its more likely you do have a teammate there. The part we'd understand that would frustrate people is if the second killer came with them to 2v1 you…but thats an inherent part of 2v8 not anything special with legion. Im sorry but none of us really get what the special hate is.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884546#Comment_3884546
You mend, you allow them to continue chaining their power and they go REALLY fast in 2v8 with herbs/classes/more than 4 chained, you will be mending before long and 7 other survivors to keep track of its not easy to keep away from others.
I'm thinking all of you don't play survivor much in current 2v8, especially not with the bots to have these opinions.Believe us, we've been playing a lot of survivor since the wait is painful to us (additonaly, we can invite more friends to the chaos with 8 slots when they're on). So we're confused here:
You mend, you allow them to continue chaining their power and they go REALLY fast in 2v8 with herbs/classes/more than 4 chained, you will be mending before long and 7 other survivors to keep track of its not easy to keep away from others.
Its literally like playing legion in normals, why mend immediately? Also its counting up to 8 at best (we've yet to see a legion pull off that chain without survivors practically letting them) or keeping a eye on the hud till you can guess when they're actually chasing. Its not rocket science. If they're using their power on injured then thats less threat from the duo as well. We again just don't get the hate.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884530#Comment_3884530
I think it's the increased terror radius allowing more Killer instincts to proc, maybe keep it as it is? IDK if KI is still tied to TR
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884532#Comment_3884532
Yeah, when they play normally and go for downs after pressures I dont mind, but when they are constantly using power only and constantly forcing mending its abysmal.
Well they are helping they're mate via tracking and injuring and you can technically try and for them via pallet to face. Considering the mend time is so short, we really don't feel anything about it. Adding on they can go for 7 other survivors after a hit, if your number 1 its the same as if legion stabbed you first in a normal match. shrug we just don't get the hate
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On a personal level the yellow herbs bug us a bit but they're overall fine for the mode. We wouldn't want them in normals but a nice chaotic mode like this doesn't do much harm and killers can break them as well so theres that wonky balancing act. Strangely despite claims from the above we've yet to see a bot actually use them.
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We don't really mind them personally. Its pretty much the same as normal except we have to watch out for their partner and less counting (it aint likely having them get a down via frenzy).
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884030#Comment_3884030
Do I really need to explain how Trapper’s and Legion’s powers are different?
Pretty much. When legion hits you and runs away theres little difference to that survivor from a trapper hitting you and running away sans the mend timer…which can be replicated by that survivor having endurance or DH and voila you got hit by legion. If the problem is the premise of them, then everyones pretty much got a problem as everyone can effectively recreate the most complained about part that we see. In a sorta hilarious way its like having multiple uses of endurance that the survivor doesn't specifically control. Legion just gets to you faster and some extra tracking if they land the stab…which then usually gets them to go to someone else or follow you around exactly like a trapper without traps…So its like a trapper got an easy first hit to us. Or wraith. Or GF. and thats their only power so its not like we'd need to worry about them rushing at us from across the map invisible or a hatchet flying at us or something. Like how is being stabbed and mending abit each hit this much of a problem to people is what we'd personally want to know. The mend timer was even shortened in 2v8 and the legion needs to hit 8 slashes before a down in there.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883957#Comment_3883957
The whole premise of Legion’s power is what makes them boring, IMO. I’m not sure how you’d tweak Legion’s power to make them less boring without completely reworking the power to something that isn’t even Legion anymore
Out of curiosity, the premise of legion is "run fast and stab"...how's that much different than say a trapper who's placed his traps?...
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@joeyspeehole said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883769#Comment_3883769
What they are saying is when you slug chase, slug chase, slug chase it’s saving you a lot of time as it relates to occupying the survivors and completing your tasks. It’s a very easy way to playing the game.
What we read (from the first sentence) is that they believe it's optimal because hooking is somehow detrimental. What we read (from the second sentence) is that killers do it to be toxic. What we read (from the rest) is ranting about SWFs (and this was ignoring the bits about SWFs thrown into the first 2 sentences).
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882711#Comment_3882711
Killers do it because it's optimal, slugging wastes Survs time since going for hooks is a detriment and hook spreading is severely punished in SWF games. Killers also do it because it's the most toxic thing to do as it removes almost all gameplay and they are all tilted from their unpleasant matches with SWF groups.
In the current game, any nerf to slugging would benefit SWF immensely and any buff to hooks will destroy SoloQ even more. The issue always starts and ends with the balance around SWF being completely out of whack and ruining the rest of the game, preventing real solutions for the games many problems.
we're genuinely curious, how much of the things of the things you repeatedly spout do you actually believe?
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
normally I am sympathetic to the struggles of other killer players, but this is just very low-quality bait.
We disagree, there's pictures, it's of a much higher quality than normal
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Counter advice for both sides: Don't be an arse.
You don't have to strictly be nice, but if you're not mean then if the other side is actually nice won't turn into another common arse.
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We're late to the masquerade
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Theres a limit where the wacky outweighs the spooky. If you could make a rubberhose toon monster scary and fun enough sure. Something like the image? …Hopefully not a chance…
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878549#Comment_3878549
There is no misunderstanding, I know what you mean, I said though it does not make sense to me.
I have no issues with achievements that are harder to do, everything is relative and there are ways to do everything.
Start a campaign to get players to play more Vecna in your region for example, you have influence there.What I don't see is why there cant be both really obtuse and exciting achievements, like Hand-Eye Coordination and also hard perks you can achieve easily, like idk unhook 10 people while broken. This game is for everybody surely there is enough room for everyone, but it seems not because you guy's goal is 100%ing achievements and therefore any actually hard achievements should be discouraged.
There is no misunderstanding,
I just 100% disagree and I don't want BHVR to be discouraged from making such unique and cool achievements in the future.This does not make sense to me, because its all fake, video games are all artificial
This is the part where we feel there's a miscommunication but it's ultimately pointless since we're going to end up having to agree to disagree in the end.
Sure we could try and get people to play vecna but that doesn't change the fact that it's outside the game. It also doesn't change the fact that we have to actually get people to listen when we're effectively nobody and have to get a vecna specifically from all the people in the region.
Games can have obtuse challenges but not everyone likes them, hence people complaining. Again we don't mind hard challenges, but we do hate "Hard for reasons we can't do anything about". If it's our lack of skill causing us to fail a challenge thats fair enough ("fair" is being used subjectively), but this isn't that. If we could do something to influence us getting to face a vecna even a little, then it's fair cause we have something to go off of even a little. But what we got is another challenge effectively at the whims of another and unlike the others, this one is extremely specific.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878320#Comment_3878320
Suggestions like these is why BHVR needs to prevent or punish hook suicides, that behaviour ruins the game for others.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878321#Comment_3878321
This does not make sense to me, because its all fake, video games are all artificial. The requirement is just a requirement, which is hard yes but that is what makes the achievement more of an achievement than over achievements. The baseline idea is to get people to keep playing, to give them more stuff to do, so idd say if it gets you to play even tho you complain about it, then that's good.
I also enjoy achievements, but im not about complaining anymore because I see it as a play motivator, and ill get to it eventually.
I have no need for a 100% complete achievement list and I want to see some cool rare achievements that matter to me.Ok let's put it this way: One is difficult because it's a hard task the other is difficult due to reasons outside the game making it hard and not the task itself.
The requirements is something outside our ability to influence. Unlike the others that are similar, this one is about a very specific thing that only comes from the one killer that someone else decided to play that day. There could theoretically be a whole week where no one plays vecna which is a whole week of being unable to even try it. The challenges should be hard, but not because of something you can't influence.
You might not care about the achievement list but others do and some like us want challenges but don't want it difficult due to fake difficulty. [PS: Artificial/Fake difficulty is defined as: difficult for a specific reason that we have no way to factor in.] (Thinking you missed that part or there's some miss communication there)
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878086#Comment_3878086
I dont see why it needs to be this way, all these cool achievements that could be. I also dont see why achievements needs to be practical either, like is this an achievement or just a matter of time?
Need is abit strong but what we know is we dislike "artificial" dificulty ie difficult for a specific reason that we have no way to factor in. If there was a challenge to [Complete a gen, open a box, rescue someone safely, heal someone who rescued you, deplete an item, break a totem, escape a chase, stun the killer, and escape that trial] we would be fine with that as those are all things we have a part in. We however can not chose the killer and unlike similar achievements such as interact with killer objects (theres multiple killers with these and its in general) or bless hexes (again general, any killer can run hexes) this achievement has to have 1 specific killer. We are effectively a honorary survivor main at this point as we've been hunting for vecna forever.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877784#Comment_3877784
Totally disagree, I think there SHOULD be Achievements gained by doing things against a Killer even rare and improbably events.
The type of player who complains here are people who want to 100% the game for the satisfaction, but they neglect others who want there to be unique and special stuff to achieve. Achievements are not a list to be completed, its a story of the player's uniqueness. So spin that 180 degrees and ask BHVR to do more like this, because is funny, encourages play and its kind of fun to play Vecna and have people who get the Item actually play like they mean it.
I also played Vecna the entire December for people like the last thread who complained about this, you know what he said to me, after I played Vecna for a week for them, he said "Nah I stopped playing this bad game"
I hope BHVR resist feedback like this that has the potential to make the game way more boring, oh achievements have to be made so they can be completed fast or else players will be mad, I say do it anyway, MAKE THEM CRY, give them a REAL achievement.
Suggestions:
Achievement name: 'Well, Victor start coming
, And he don't stop coming.'
Playing against the Twins, Kick Victor 100 times.Achievement name: 'Evan's Worst Nightmare'
Playing against the Trapper, Disarm 100 Bear traps.Achievement Name: 'No Barbecue Today!'
Requirement: Escape a match against The Cannibal while at least three other Survivors have already left.Achievement Name: "Try Stalking Now!"
Requirement: Blind Michael Myers 50 times while he's stalking.Achievement name: 'Its like a Maize!'
Escape the Coldwind Farm without being chased by the Killer or attracting any crows.I think the game would be way more fun, if BHVR decided to do more achievements that could be difficult to do.
While we get where your coming from, even we would like an alternative method to things we have no practical control over such as this. Unlike maps you can't choose who you face (with good reason) which makes this artificially harder than it should be.
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People didn't want to scare Bhvr away from this
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877220#Comment_3877220
The MMR does suck, but Killer has been buffed to deal with SWF since the game has been balancing around SWF, SoloQ is just completely like running into a brick wall with the goal of going through it. Most Killers are miserable by how they treat SoloQ players when no real thread of losing is posed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877215#Comment_3877215
Every balance change would be "punishing" with that kind of logic, so why balance anything at all? Balancing is not "punishing", stop crying because you don't want your clear advantage to be corrected. Those changes wouldn't impact SWF groups that play the game to have fun.
Sooooo what did adding the hud for survivors do to punish swfs? That improved balance via giving solos similar info. A balance change that doesn't punish playing with friends. Tada…
Pretty sure that first one would defiantly impact any swf group but that aside, can you name 3 games where there are penalties for playing with friends?
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@Roco45 said:
SWF have weaknesses, tunneling/camping/slugging. SWF are not likely to leave their friends to die on hook or bleed out on the ground, so those three things are the most optimal way to deal with SWF and the halt the match to get a snowballing effect.
Problem is, those three things destroy SoloQ as SoloQ can't possibly keep up with the level of coordination that's needed to subvert those mechanics. Those three things, while also being the most optimal to deal with SWF, are still not great ways to deal with good SWF and the Killer will still have an unfun time, unless it's a cracked out Nurse or Blight since they ignore game mechanics and are broken, which is justified to deal with SWF…. which again ruins SoloQ.
I'm seeing a pattern here. You're right though OP, SWF need nerfs!
-Debuff their gen progression speeds per SWF amount in party. Wouldn't affect SoloQ one bit so Surv overall isn't nerfed and would increase gen repair times for SWF to offset their coordinated information.
-Only allow SWF to bring in brown tools and brown add-ons. Entices SWF to engage with chests and also deters stacks of broken tools being brought into the match.
-Don't allow repeat perks. All SWF in a party must bring in different perks so they all can't stack the meta or all can't stack 2nd chance perks to troll the Killer.
Then slugging/camping/tunneling could actually be addressed by BHVR with meaningful mechanic changes and then wow, the game is so much better for everyone since Killer won't get abused every match, SoloQ can become playable again, and SWF can still focus on playing with their friends.
Debuff their gen progression speeds per SWF amount in party. Wouldn't affect SoloQ one bit so Surv overall isn't nerfed and would increase gen repair times for SWF to offset their coordinated information.
-Only allow SWF to bring in brown tools and brown add-ons. Entices SWF to engage with chests and also deters stacks of broken tools being brought into the match.
-Don't allow repeat perks. All SWF in a party must bring in different perks so they all can't stack the meta or all can't stack 2nd chance perks to troll the Killer.
See, when people are talking about "punishing people for playing with friends", they're referring to this kinda thing.
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Mostly we feel its a personal choice and maybe to keep moral up somewhat. Some like us can get a 4k as killer but if its not amusing/exciting…we dont feel we won or at best its a pyrrhic victory. Others only get happy at the 4k and anything less is unacceptable. The devs have mmr rise at 3-4ks for killer yet we still get a happy entity at 8 hooks 0k so what does that entail? Theres room for interpretation and people take it.
As survivor its more simple, if you ignore oddballs like us who are happy to die a hero and consider it a win if successful, but moral will drop fast as you can easily and repeatedly "lose" due to many factors out of your control. Potato teammates, tunneled to death, farmed to death, complete counter to your build, running the killer forever while the team doesnt work, etc.
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876824#Comment_3876824
I said I dont like one thing about demogorgon the hell you mean. And yeah I dont care if someone dcs or not I dont have a killer I love or something I can deal with most killers. Most of them dont have problems to begin with. Wraith, Trapper, Billy and others dont have issues. As for the DEFINITION OF FUN a killer who can use their power with skill and not be brainlessly using it without a thought in the world what they are doing. Aka spamming it until you get a down. I think almost everyone will agree a killer is fun when he has to use skills and thinking with his power. I can't see it being any other way. I think you can agree too probably cause all killers who are liked take actual skill. Billy takes skill and thinking, Wesker takes skill and thinking, Huntress takes it too, same goes for Wraith too and so on and so forth. And they all also got the simple counter of you choosing where you go and if you manage to bloody dodge them or see them coming.
...you realize that some of the killers you listed can actually spam their power such as Billy and Huntress…
Regardless of that giving everyone free reign to DC means no one will get a full game of people 9/10. You might be ok with that but as others above pretty much tell that others are very much not.
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This is a funny story around the time we started playing.
It was a kyf on Crotus asylum, the killer was tombstone Mikey (double iridescents). So the game goes by, people get hooked and gens get done as stealthy as possible as everyone pretty much knows what he's doing so we got a very tense game of hide and seek going.
Eventually t3 pops and people start dying. As I'm running to unhook someone (long part short, things went downhill quickly in a short time) with Mikey in tow karma decided to save me for being brave/stupid. I unhooked the person and Mikey somehow grabbed through me and starts stabbing the other guy. Allowed me to hide and hatch to pop up.
So mouse me looks for the hatch around the map while me and Mikey playfully taunt each other till it gets through to me that he found it already (this was long before egc so he couldn't close it). What do I do? I taunt him some more by narrating his every move as he realizes I'm watching him (think he had whispers too and everyone in call was pretty much like "yes he's there", so that probably helped). What then happens is the rabbit sneaking around like Snake and escaping down the hatch.
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Slugging for the whole team? Rarely as we've only had that 4 times between the 3 of us...3 in the same month too (November).
Slugging for the 4k or mori? Averages 4/5 games give or take. Sometimes reasonable, most times not.
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Lakeview hotel or the labyrinth
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A killer that uses fire
Evil Within
A actual werewolf
We're simple like that
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875229#Comment_3875229
That's a fair assessment. I'm just trying to stay on topic. You keep trying to change the subject to my personal gameplay which isn't remotely related to the subject on hand, so I'm just skipping over those comments. If you are so interested in my gameplay, you're welcome to look up my videos sometime, but this isn't the time nor the place to discuss it.
If you actually read what was written you'd realize that only one part actually talks about you specifically. The rest is not about you and we see you edited one post to make it seem like we're fixated on it. We really couldn't care less about MMR or at anything related, we're pointing out the flaws in your thinking regarding STB which you practically STATED your ignoring along with our previous explanation of why our first response was created as such. All this combined is insulting to the 3 of us and thus not worth more than this explanation. Either fully respond or leave this as is but WE won't respond unless it fills the criteria.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875059#Comment_3875059
You're still going off topic, but I'll at least respond to one on topic. If a casual player plays enough, yes, they can easily get to high mmr. At that point, they arent really a casual. Bear in mind, we are talking about few descriptions unique to dbd that isn't the same for other games. For example, someone who has 100 hours in a game is usually considered someone who has significant experience in the game. In DBD, that's still a very, very new player in terms of experience. 500 hours in and you're just starting to get a decent handle of good gameplay but still have a lot to learn. That's why I mentioned me having 2000 hours isn't all that impressive. Some of the most experienced and skilled players have well over 10,000 hours. Regardless, the ceiling is pretty low. Thats why reaching high mmr isn't really bragging rights. I'm just pointing out the problem exists at the higher mmr bracket and not for newer or casual players. While a lot of "basic level players" flood the higher mmr bracket, that's also the same place the experienced players reside. A 500 hour player can be in the same high mmr bracket as a 10,000 hour player - the ceiling is that low. A while back, BHVR actually acknowledged this problem and implemented a special bracket above high mmr to try to mitigate the problem, but it essentially was just to try to push the extreme skilled players into being more likely to face each other. Essentially, the low, hard ceiling got converted to a sort of soft ceiling specific to the highest tier players. If I recall correctly, the soft cap went from 1800 to 2100. You can look up their post about it.
At this point we feel you just want to cherry pick what you wish to say and respond to since this is what we got after explaining everything, so little point in us responding in kind.
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Because it can effectively block 90ish of the ways a killer can down you?