Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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@frozzenk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923704#Comment_3923704
Lord has there ever been a more uninformed post in this forum?
Many, like this ~
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923698#Comment_3923698
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923712#Comment_3923712
Do you super honestly not see any difference in “break totems” challenges and “be chased by the killer” challenges?
When a survivor rushes a break totem challenge, they are often spending large amounts of time breaking dull totems, which ends up not helping the other survivors at all.
But when survivors rush chase challenges, they can bring chase perks to help them last longer in chases, and when they are being chased by the killer it helps the other survivors because it’s occupying the killer’s time, and taking pressure off of the other survivors.When we broke totems we made sure it was either useful (bringing totem based perks) or after/on the way to something (finished a gen and break a totem nearby) vs those who scour the map looking through every last nook and cranny for them. When we had a chase challenge, we just went with it naturally as chases are a natural part of the game vs trying to run AT the killer like an idiot. Looking like that's a people problem from our view.
There's a difference between what you need to do between them yet neither are "toxic" to us. What wouldn't be "toxic" to someone yet still be interesting?
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@MarbleThrone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923704#Comment_3923704
I'm afraid you haven't been paying attention, if you put Nemesis, Wraith, Dredge, Doc, Dracula, Vecna and Artist among others in that list 😕.
Anyone else?Haven't seen nor heard of bugs on them till the guy above said there's apparently some on some of them ~
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923704#Comment_3923704
well, let's get started,HUX is bugged, his biopods have a delay of about a second, same with Dracula, but there it does not happen every time and dracula delay is less
Slinger has a bug where his harpoon does not work at all
The plague has increased the number of moments when a survivor gets attacked, but does not get infectedHoundmaster sometimes the dog takes a long time to return or gets stuck
Twins... just too many bugsThese are only the bugs that I encountered and which were confirmed by other players on the forum, perhaps there are more bugged killers
Welp one new update and more fun.
For the record, saw all but Dracula (HUX, Plague, couple slingers…maybe they went bug hunting?) yesterday and all played fine.
What's apparently up with Nemi?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923665#Comment_3923665
Seeing it as a people problem doesn’t actually help fix the problem.
Yeah, there are a lot of people that are going to rush the challenges. So the solution is to stop having challenges that are toxic when survivors try to rush them.
Seeing the problem isn't the same as fixing it regardless, but pretty much what Jesterkind said above sums up our general thoughts in a nicer way.
What couldn't count as "toxic"? At this rate it would be things like "escape as X survivor"...which are not remotely interesting.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923699#Comment_3923699
Absolutely yes, good sir/madam.
We second the absolutely no
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Trapper, Wraith, Billy, Huntress, Meyers, Hag, Doc, Freddy, Bubba, Pig, Clown, Spirit, Legion, Ghost face, Demodogo, Vecna, Dracula, Xenomorph, Chucky, Unknown, Artist, Slinger, Trickster, Dredge, Oni, Ghoul (haven't seen any bugs but don't know for sure), plague, Pyramid Head, Blight, Nemo, Wesker, Cenobite (hopefully, same as ghoul), Sadako, Knight (also hopefully), Merchant, HUX.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922675#Comment_3922675
Watch the video i posted and then come back
Not likely happening
@Orvarihusklumpen said:
Another thing
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922675#Comment_3922675
I just wanna ask something, do you play this game competitively or do you play is casually like with your friends and stuff? Because what i have noticed when people bring up visible MMR is that the people that want visible MMR are usually very competitive minded while the people that don't want are more of the casual players.
Due to our definition of "competitive" (playing in a league/event/etc with some form of valuable stakes on the line, such as cash or other prizes) the three of us play casual.
Your assessment of people is mostly correct. We also see that more "competitive minded" people are desperate to see mmr more than your average person. Doesn't change the flaws that come with it though.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923234#Comment_3923234
I will absolutely blame challenges, but not exactly the mechanics
Tome challenges had plenty of ridiculous one that actively harms gameplay, such as "invigorate survivors as clown" or "do hatch escape" or "use no mither", all those extremely detrimental challenges were still born in tome system, so honestly I feel it's gone for good, also even something like "rescue survivors x times in a match" actively encourages players to race for rescue and cram in hooks, it was flawed system if we think about that
But then there is no guarantee they won't do same thing with new quest system so…
Yet if people didn't act like their lives were on the line to complete those challenges, there'd be less harm. Those like use no mither actively challenge people to use the perk "DBD hardmode" instead of one of their usual, and likely meta, perks. Hatch escapes can be done with 5 gens and open doors. Even the rescues one is likely an eventuality due to the nature of the game, but people want it done now.
Blame what you want, but we see it as a people problem.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923234#Comment_3923234
BHVR needs to make a ranked mode before that, so we can have a casual queue where survivors can be as anti-team player as they want, and they can ruin as many games as they want for the other survivors.
Blaming the people doesn’t help the solo q games that get ruined because of tome challenges. The real solution is to phase out the toxic challenges, unless there is a separate casual queue where people can do whatever they want.
We both know that won't stop anything, but this is neither time nor place for that discussion.
Blaming people for being dumb about doing their challenges seems the appropriate response. Besides, the only real toxic ones (which are opinions mind) are the blind ones.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
The tome challenges were toxic to solo q survivors.
It’s impossible for solo q to feel like a team, when one of the survivors is sandbagging their entire team to complete a tome challenge.
If we want to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF, then we need to get rid of the stuff that encourages survivors to be selfish anti-team individuals.
Then there's the reasonable players who want an extra challenge/win condition/something different.
Don't blame the mechanic, blame the people.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921246#Comment_3921246
- Tunneling weak links in a team is going to be a thing of the past with the new Duty Of Care perk and new buffed Babysitter. 2. With the new Abandon feature, there is literally no way for a survivor to lose MMR unless they get tunneled out at the beginning of a match thereby making it damn near impossible to get to low MMR. 3. They literally showed the MMR numbers or atleast the highest and the lowest MMR on their latest stats update. 4.Choy literally explained the reasons why people would think adding visible MMR would increase Toxicity starting at 2:54. My own reasons why they hid it in the first place is because they know if they would show visible MMR people would know that it's flawed and possible by design, to push bad survivors up to good killers inflating the killrates. Choy is literally the only content creator in this DBD content scene that has a voice in this matter and has actually spoken up about this, that's why i am bringing him up.
- Yay one part helped…how bout the rest?
With the new Abandon feature, there is literally no way for a survivor to lose MMR unless they get tunneled out at the beginning of a match thereby making it damn near impossible to get to low MMR.
What does any of this have to do with "why add more ways to be toxic to ppl?". If anything its more an argument to use in point 1.
3. From what we recall they did not show any individual players MMR. If you can point to official stats saying otherwise we'll happily eat our words.
4. You really seem to be trying to push this random guy on us. At least you explained the relevance of why you added whatshisname but ultimately:
My own reasons why
This is what matters to us more than whosit. Gotta say that parts to us sound a bit like a conspiracy theory. We don't deny the MMR system is flawed in many ways (which is why we got soooooo many things to use for point 1) but we don't think its directly picking bad skill to face good skill at first. That said, wouldn't then this be more of a con showing it as it would have people's MMR mean nil while causing the above head aches?
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Needles 💉 tend to invoke fear in a healthy population of people
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
More and more interaction has been removed from the game between Killer and Survivor ontop of survivors being able to interact with the game in general:
-Flashlight angles reduced as a result of nerfing flashbangs
-Lightburn removed (I feel like killers who are effected by it should have had a new mechanic akin to singularity to fight back their power with new items/interactions)
-Kaneki/Blight/Nurse etc exist
-Slugging exists more as a result of more widespread knowledge (thanks killer streamers)
-Tunneling exists again as a result of more widespread knowledge (again thanks killer streamers)
-Second Chance builds is the only build to avoid the above.
-Servers are so awful, hit detection is so much more whack than it used to be. So many killers get stupid hids who have high mobility/fast moving projectiles!!! THIS ONE IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST FACTORS.
-More and more hindered/haste stacking exists on killer side
-Pentimento exists
-Small Coldwind with no loops and Haddonfield exist
-Franklins still has no counter (perk or addon that lets you keep items in hand)
-Perks like Mirrored illusion/Bardic give NO points on usage, don't feel rewarding to use at all
-Anti-Camp is one of the most useless easy to exploit systems made for this game
-Invocations are perks designed around the ideaology that survivors have room to take such huge risks (they dont)
-Boons take too much time to set up and are too weak for the investment
-Chests are so far and few between and give no addons without a perk, and broken keys and maps exist which are useless without them.
-Medkits self heal was nerfed to the point even self care + Botany is better, med kit tiers not being better in any way upon tier up is one of the worst things they've ever added.
-Gen slowdown stacking feels like you can be on a single gen for up to 2 minutes or more at a time, it's awful
-Calm Spirit has still not had its downside removed LMAO
-Lobby Dodging is making MMR Redundant.
The list could go on, and on and on and on and on. Of course there are issues on killer side too, but there is soooo many issues rn with survivor, and we havn't even gotten to the bugs yet.We just wanna poke into this list real quick:
- Yet there are people who are still able to get blinds and saves. It has not been removed at all.
- Lightburn practically affected only Wraith and generally was just unpleasant while playing as him. We can count on 1 finger how many times we've seen a Nurse lightburned.
- Hyper Mobility, Lethal Mobility, and Unrestricted mobility. None of these killers stop survivors interacting with anything. With the etc tacked on we could possibly read that as any killer as well should we go to the logical conclusion.
- Slugging has existed before and we'd blame it more on people whining their toys were slightly nerfed.
- Same as the above.
- This one is true enough.
- We're not sure about this one as for us servers haven't become "more whack" without a reason we can trace (ex: a storm in the area causing random lag spikes, something known is happening with the servers, etc).
- And how often is this seen and how does this remove anything?
- Really? This perks existence is stopping people from doing things? We know if we see a lit totem it needs snapped, penti be damned. We'd hope others think similar before that Devour hope that was left alone murders all.
- A grand total of 2 coldwinds have practically no loops (we say practically cause theres still loops, just few and far between). Meanwhile Haddonfield also has loops and aside from atrocious gen spawns is very playable for both sides.
- Lockers. Tada, built in counter to Franklins. No add-on, perk, or offering needed.
- Opinions. We find it very satisfying when a killer smacks the illusion and once saw a video of it causing a hilarious mind game. Bardic meanwhile is just nice to hear and gives a potential buff to skill checks.
- You say useless, yet we've yet to see a face camping bubba since it came around. In fact the only ones we've seen face camp are the particularly salty or dumb ones. Think it works a treat.
- Not really? One is unlimited unbreakable, one is effectively botany and empathy combined, one is unlimited always on distortion, and one is lesser mft with different restrictions. While tied to an area, these effects are for everybody. All you gotta do is find a totem (not hard as your likely to find one near gens or loop areas) and spend the time to bless (equal to snaping any dull totem). As a cherry on top these perks solve your above pentimento problem.
- The number of chests hasn't really changed. Heck you can add more chests via offering.
- Because repeated 16 or less heals were ridiculous. The higher medkits are great for healing others.
- While gen blocking stops interactions with gen(s)…the survivors can do literally anything else while its blocked.
- That also doesn't stop people from interacting with anything.
- And if people didn't do that then it might end up working better. But this has no direct effect on interactions.
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@UknownShredder said:
The problem is that the DC penalties are so severe. Some people play this game alot more than others, like a full time job and for those people getting a penalty from cheat and then one from DC and then they start to accumulate to a point where you cant play for a week. the maximum penalty should be 1 hour , lets say after 2 DCs for whatever reason. and should be reset every day.
people should not be afraid to log on and play the game after 71 hours and fear the game might bug out, someone cheat or someone crashing your internet or you get a normal internet cutout even tho they happen rarely. to get a reinforced 72 hour penalty to wait out.The first penalty is less than 1 minute, the second is about 5, the third strike is when it starts to actually begin punishing. That's pretty dang lenient to us.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
- The competitve scene as a whole in DBD is completely mixed in terms of which players gets allowed into which tournaments, some tournaments for instance you like Hexy's Best Of the Best 5 years that had no barrier for entry so you had Otz being matched up against scrubs in a bracket and then you have Tournaments like Wwispy1's for instance where there were no restrictions on either side and DBD content creators like Scott Jund was saying that it was decently balanced at the high level which anyone with half a brain would know especially when you could bring in a Ebony Mori and kill someone of 3rd hook negating a DS and also that whole tournament was based on hooks so killers was actually losing as the MMR system as it is currently is based on kills/escapes but yes my point is that we would have players with high MMR in these tournaments instead of completely random people that just start up a tournament on Twitch. 2. Like i said, Toxicity is always going to be in a PVP multiplayer game such as this. Choy, another content creator that shares my opinion made an exact video talking about the pros and cons of a visible MMR and has talked about visible MMR for years. BHVR Just Randomly Shadow Dropped MMR For The First Time! - Dead By Daylight The sad reality is that i do not think that BHVR would give us visible MMR just because of the fact they brought out their lawyers when people were asking for it through the support system and their reasoning for it was that it was a "trade secret" which is not true, dataminers have found out that it's based on the Glicko system, a system that is based on Chess and widely used in the majority of games that uses some form of skill based matchmaking system.
We assume this is for us yes?
1.
my point is that we would have players with high MMR in these tournaments instead of completely random people that just start up a tournament on Twitch
This is literally the only thing you needed to say without adding all the unnecessary fluff. As we said before:
Do you mean "better players" in the comp scene? If so, MMR wouldn't work as we've pointed out prior that MMR does not quite equate to skill.
How did someone get to "high mmr"? Currently killers have a pretty easy way to get to "high mmr" via tunnel the weak link with stacked regressions while the only thing a survivor needs to do is get out the door, don't matter how to go up.
2. You didn't answer the question. "why add more ways to be toxic to ppl?" Just because people will always be people doesn't necessarily excuse adding more ways to do so, especially if the positive isn't worth it. Does the 1 or 1 & 1/2 pro outweigh the cons?
…and for the third bloody time, we don't give a F about whomever this Choy is, especially if your trying to invoke them with it having nothing to do with this conversation…
3. For ease of reading, we ask if you'd please use spacing/separating paragraphs/whatever the proper term was called. Its hard to dig through anything against a wall of text.
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We find it's strangely good. We'd definitely like the conditions to activate be different or atleast lesser. Maybe just damaging survivors 8 times or cut it in half.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920691#Comment_3920691
I suppose, but the point is that they'll still keep doing it regardless either due to frustration or behavioral patterns.
That Steve I mentioned? ^ he'll queue up once more, if he goes down without any Deliverance, he will give up. A survivor gives up because they're downed first? Same thing. Hell, I made a Steam profile to make a comment on my friend's Steam page and someone on his page has "Ghoul = Go Next." - people DC and/or give up for whatever reasons, it's why I've made a personal decision that if someone attempts to kill themselves on hook, I don't go unhook. 🤷🏾♀️
I had a Sable attempt to give up on hook, someone unhooked her, she went around Dead Dawg throwing every pallet, and then teabagged my hook as I died. Slugging these people do nothing other than a little temporary time-out in your game, until they go into the next and inflict the same behavior if and once the trigger occurs once more.
People have been saying for the longest time that Behavior hasn't done much for solo survivors, so I'm not at all surprised with "Go Nexters".
The only thing people can do is try and dissuade them from attempting to repeat that ones actions and indirectly try to help others until something changes. We're under no delusions that this will stop a majority or even a minor number of them, but it might stop some and does prevent another reoccurrence from that specific one.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920529#Comment_3920529
You'd be surprised about people who have the tendency to give up when things don't go their way.
You do it, they get the reaction that they want - you putting them down and leaving them on the ground does nothing as they simply can go do something else.
I had a Wraith hump me on the ground not too long ago, Xbox player - and I went to eat my food with my controller on my coffee table. You do the same to a person who gave up? Same thing.
We're not really surprised, but it will hopefully get to those with less brains and/or patience.
We can't tell what the quitter wants, but killers can keep them from trying to q up and pulling the same stunt again for a certain time. If they want to be on the dirt while we go play with the rest of their team (either killing them or farming) then they can have it, but it atleast gives others a chance to not get a q with that one to hopefully get a normal match.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920376#Comment_3920376
They aren't going to learn anything. They'll get annoyed. No one here is teaching a lesson in persistence through this game. This specific game lacks the necessary stuff.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920375#Comment_3920375
I can appreciate what you're saying, but this game is too much of a mess for any of that to apply. No one balances anything here. They never tried. I do not feel its a PvP competitive environment. It could be and if it was I suspect I could back your view of enforcing community standards for the enjoyment of all.
And when they do get annoyed enough they won't q up to wreck another match or actually start playing. According to some here they're trying to teach persistence to those [insert word of choice].
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@smurf said:
Do you think the abandon mechanic can be abused?
If theres a will, theres a way. We'd bet alota cookies that people will at least try and abuse it, but lets see what happens yes?
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920371#Comment_3920371
You can't argue with the time penalty that being stuck in a match imposes. It does accomplish the separation aspect of the criminal justice system.
I will however take issue with the other aspect of the remedy. People annoyed with the game will not behave better due to punishment. They will behave worse. Sadly, in the realm of the game I have only anecdote for you as evidence. Simply the angrier they are made the more they will pass it on.
Me, making light of the communities feelings related to specific killers was not meant to imply, outside of the sarcastic aspect an empathy with such judgements. Sarcasm aside, I view these games as such, if you want out and don't want to interact with me I support you in that.
I'm not keeping people around to torment them, its not worth it and they will not learn to be better people from the experience.
Thing is though, they won't learn to be better people from being let out either. When the killer obliges them, its basically "passing the buck" to the next group until that specific "buck" of a survivor finds a game they like. This like can be fairly arbitrary such as specifically getting trapper on Garden of joy to not getting found first.
For our 3 cents of the OP, its fighting toxic with toxic. Its not inherently a good thing to do, but what the survivor is trying to do is just as bad or worse.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919091#Comment_3919091
Pros are as follows. We would stop getting people who say "you are just facing scrubs and you are not really at high MMR" when they have no grounds to say so because MMR is visible, it would stop the confusement between players who think their MMR ranking and their grade are the same, the competitive scene would get better cause you could see the mmr of these players instead of people just starting up a tournament with random people with 500 restrictions on 1 side etc etc. The big con i see here is that a lot of people find it stressful about the idea of seeing your MMR ingame whether it raises or lowers depending on wins and losses which is why they should add it as an option in the menu if you wanna see it or not. Toxicity is also something that people that are against visible MMR say this will bring out which is true but toxicity will always be in a multiplayer videogame especially in a competitive one like DBD. The only difference here is that they will now use MMR as an excuse to be toxic to other players.
For those pros:
- While this is true, it comes with a mirrored con we have been repeating.
- …which is usually easily solved when someone brings it up to begin with? But very well.
the competitive scene would get better cause you could see the mmr of these players instead of people just starting up a tournament with random people with 500 restrictions on 1 side etc etc.
you might need to explain this one to us as we don't quite understand how you mean it would get better. Do you mean "better players" in the comp scene? If so, MMR wouldn't work as we've pointed out prior that MMR does not quite equate to skill. It also would probably lead to things like "only X MMR allowed" tournaments, though whether or not that part is a pro or con is variable by person.
For those cons:
- True, didn't even think of that one.
- The thing with the toxicity is "why add more ways to be toxic to ppl?" Its not even about having to get use to it, its just more and more and builds up. Sure people can get use to it, but why keep adding it up for, to us at least, a dumb reason?
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918526#Comment_3918526
People are already being nasty about anything in this game adding something that a lot of players have asked for is not going to increase or decrease it in any way shape or form. People are always going to be toxic about anything no matter what in a multplayer game, that is a just a fact people are going to accept at some point. It's not a good excuse not to put it into the game, same with communication for solo queue players. The only reason i can see why BHVR would never implement visible (which they have clearly stated that they won't with legal actions) MMR is because it would show the public how bad the MMR really is.
Actually, its a pretty solid excuse since there's little point in adding more ways for the players to be ****s to each other. (And yes, it would increase people being nasty to each other, by how much everyone can only guess).
If you'll indulge a little experiment, can you list your pros and cons of showing vs not showing MMR for each?
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Pure unaltered spite~
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918103#Comment_3918103
1: He's a content creator for DBD.
2. Actually, it would make people have to improve instead of telling them it's ok to suck and that we will tone it down until you no longer suck.
- Again, don't know OR care
2. Now, we're going to explain this again as clearly as we can.
When people see MMR, theres a very good number of people who will base people's "validity" (Defined: "how much credibility one's argument holds") on MMR. This is despite the fact that multiple things factor into how they got there. Such examples include the killer tunneling their way up despite their own lack of skill in any other area or a survivor hiding all game doing nothing helpful but manages to keep getting out the door. Both of those increase MMR.Examples from the other end is the chill killer getting SWF squads back to back with gen builds or the expert survivor who basically caried the team but was left for dead at the end. Those lower MMR.
These examples and similar show that MMR does not equate to skill or validity in arguments. People can be both knowledgeable and skillful while being in low MMR. The problem then becomes that people would dismiss others thoughts based on their MMR and that is wrong for multiple reasons shown if MMR were visible.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917560#Comment_3917560
- Choy literally made a whole video about this breaking down why MMR should be visible but it's not going to happen because BHVR recently called in their lawyers to protect their MMR system because it's their "intellectual property" which is false since it was stolen from a chess system called the Glicko system. 2. Like i said before, we are not disregarding them, they are just going to accept the fact that their view of balance at high level might not be correct since they are at low level, this can be applied to IRL situations as well.
- We dont know who that is, nor do we care. None of the lawyer stuff has anything to do with people disregarding others based on mmr.
Like i said before, we are not disregarding them, they are just going to accept the fact that their view of balance at high level might not be correct since they are at low level
See…this is the kind of thing we were talking about.
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The main problem in our opinion is that practically every other update breaks them. Currently switching between them occasionally give what we dub the "broken neck" bug (your camera is stuck pointing downwards and you cant switch between them without getting stunned) in kyf at least. THAT problem needs to be solidly solved before anything else.
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We'd definitely love a "how many pallets broken" counter at the very least.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917052#Comment_3917052
- Escaping a trial more than you die is how you get to high MMR, the fact that you can loop the killer for 5 gens, still get sacrificed at the end and lose MMR is a flaw with the SBMM system. They should just add defeat protection from IDV or just make the sacriced survivor (running the killer for 5 gens) gain MMR at the end if the other 3 survivors escape. The MMR system as a whole would be perfect if every killer had similar powers, tiles were fair and perks didn't have that much effect on the match and maps were midsized. Kilers get more or less MMR depending on the order that the survivors are sacrificed. Patrick one of the former devs that was the head of the MMR at the time so to speak, said in of the Q and A's that the game is conducted as 4 separate 1v1's.
- Can you please explain this?
- That doesn't change the fact that they were still in low mmr and would be disregarded. We can talk about what should or shouldn't be another time, what we want to talk about right now is why a person in low mmr should not be disregarded just because they are low on the mmr totem since there are a multitude of factors currently contributing to how you rise or fall.
- Should the devs show mmr it comes with head aches that are not here currently. It would cause people to disregard any "low mmr" player, be used as a "my mmr is so high I must be right" excuse, people would be enticed into playing into gaining mmr more (or feel pressured to depending on the person) than trying to have fun or even really enjoying themselves. Things of that nature. Meanwhile, it's currently hidden and the only real problem is the nagging curiosity of where a person is on the so called ladder.
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In terms of "okay to be in the game" to use we'd say yes. It is a horror slasher game, plenty of things have done grievous harm with a body and could fit snuggly here.
In terms of it actually coming to the game, probably not gonna happen. At best it would be something like your "quilt skull" but would be completely unrecognizable as anyone. Alternatively, they use something like bones, something that could belong to anyone/anything. Whack someone over the head with a femur or something.
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@Raccoon said:
Some of these replies really have me scratching my head.
The hyperbole and emotions are running wild!
People also seem to forget that the game is asymmetrical.
Shh don't quell the flames of idiocy, it's our entertainment
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916775#Comment_3916775
- It makes sense, why would you listen to people at low MMR anyway? This applies to a lot of things in irl situations as well.
- I agree with this but i don't think that this is all black and white. I genuinely think a lot of players just wanna know their MMR and know how the system works.
- Agreed. It was an extremely accurate system in the beginnning, remember when Dowsey had to sit in a queue for 4 hours as twins and when he finally got a match, he got destroyed? Game was literally unplayable during that whole time, it was literally sweat squads all the time and queues were atleast 5 minutes long.
- How did they get to low mmr? Did they run the killer for 5 gens and die a hero repeatedly? Did that killer keep getting SWFs sending them to bad match ups for maps? Conversely, how did someone get to high mmr? The killer tunneled their way up? That survivor be a rat letting the team do the heavy lifting? Just because someone is low mmr wouldn't make whatever they said untrue or less valid, especially when you don't know how they got this "score".
- Yet this curiosity comes with a can of downsides that simply hiding it solves.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915425#Comment_3915425
Yeah, I just don't get the "doing the gen reveals your location" mindset in this scenario. The killer's camping the hatch. The moment he moves away, the survivor could potentially slip through and get the hatch. If the killer closes the hatch and then goes for the gen that just got done, there's no guarantee that the survivor isn't gonna be long gone or well hidden nearby, especially since the exits are now powered. Is this a position of power for the killer? Maybe. But shouldn't that be the case when there's 1 survivor left at the very end, and the game needs to come to a close? It feels like people are against killers having advantage no matter WHAT the odds are. "No gens done, sub- 15-second chases, no unhooks. The survivors should still have a chance to escape, riiight?"
Its sadly coming to a point where we're seeing people are wanting a "chance" to move up to a "guarantee" . We're ok with a "chance" of escape even if things went south so horribly it would make a bloody comedy, but its like "things got to this point and you think it should be easy? Why?" kinda deal.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
This has little to do with the surrender mechanic, though. Killers could do this before.
Is it scummy? Sure, but again, nothing new.
Think their complaint is about how the killer can camp the hatch and still get everything via surrender or forcing the survivor to out themselves via gen (which is what currently happens yes).
@Lixadonna said:
What's to stop a Killer from camping Hatch. Force Survivor to do Generator to reveal location. Can you really expect 1 Survivor to do remaining Generators. You give Killer rights to Surrender when Survivors complete 5 Generators after 10 minutes but nothing for Hatch camping other than to do Generators and lose anyway.
While yes, the survivor is pretty much forced to do a gen or get the killer to surrender (don't know what happens with survivors when the killer surrenders) its not an auto loss as 1. doing the gens that are away from said hatch are workable options and 2. if the killer has a brain they'll close the hatch after that first pop while you squirrel away for the door game.
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@TunnelingIsNecessary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914989#Comment_3914989
You're speaking truth here, so I'm going to down vote you.
It would be truth...if people didn't increase slugging after the change to hooks.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914013#Comment_3914013
This is a very poor attitude to have. It’s no wonder so many people have a miserable solo queue experience if this attitude is common. Sure, there are plenty of matches where the teammates are terrible or they give up immediately, but I’ve also had plenty of fun and competitive matches when the teammates are decent players and actually try. You’re always going to have a rougher time if you have an attitude of “I’m probably going to lose anyway” and make the game harder for yourself by not bringing something that can help you and your team.
Yet at the same time, bringing an item doesn't inherently make the match better does it? What we want is fun. Bringing an item doesn't make the match fun. Quite frankly we like challenges so your making not bringing an item seem more appealing.
And as an aside, we never said “I’m probably going to lose anyway”, we said "we don't care enough to bring items". We don't think we're going to lose, but we don't care if we do either. Apathy is nice for the non comp mindset.
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Is it wrong that we don't care enough to bring items? Especially when there's an epidemic of people who go to next for a cascade of reasons?
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Long time ago, just before the end game collapse came, there was a plague who, after a close trial on old badham, had most of a survivor team dead to rights. With 3 freshly slugged and each of them on death hook (the short of that story can be summed as "rescue gone bad") and the last gen just popped by me I opened the nearby door and started to run back to the slugs (I was healthy and in a good mood for some reason). The plague met (found) me half way (no I dont know or remember why she took so long) and the chase began. The slugs, in a rare moment of clarity, we're crawling to the open door while I'm running around trying to get to them with the plague trying her damnest to kill me. I don't remember why she was determined to get me but she slipped up and forgot about her slugs who managed to crawl their way out. Luck also favored me as both me and the killer heard the hatch open. She went to the hatch and didn't notice me saying "fk that" till I had a decent headstart to the door. Instead of 3 dead it becomes 4 out.
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If not springtrap we'd guess the white rabbit (can't remember the name), or one of the Freddys.
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Ya know whats funny? Got just as many xenos as ghouls tonight. Only one ghoul ran blood favor. The ones tunneling were the xenos. People lasted from 10 seconds to a minute… Funny yea?
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@Garboface said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909101#Comment_3909101
One that actually happens.
Then good news, every killer gives you an enjoyable chase with that definition.
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In general:
- Always try to shoot with one crow if going for swarming survivors. You won't have time to shoot again if you fire more than 1 and the survivors start repelling.
- Remember you need to aim preemptively. Think of it like your setting down a cannon aimed and waiting for the order to fire.
- When searching with your birds try lining up multiple things you want to check.
- Try to straif to make a "wall" or "shotgun" your crows when trying to damage. Gives a lot of coverage to hit.
- You don't need to fire immediately. Wait till you know they're committed and can't/won't dodge. Heard the target to where a bird is aimed. Basically don't be trigger happy. You can also place another bird (assuming you have 1 ready) to extend the time before they disappear so you have more time to heard them into A birds flight path.
- This is kinda obvious but the birds go through walls and across the map. You'd be surprised how many survivors forget that. This lets you be creative with placement.
- If you don't have a shot that will benefit you in anyway (if it's not aimed at a gen, hooked survivor, survivor that's going to get swarmed or hit, door, lit totem, you get the point) DON'T SHOOT. Your CD is much faster if the birds disappear due to the timer and you won't slow down.
- Your CD depends on how many birds you shoot. Something to keep in mind.
- You need to quickly learn how each survivor plays and react accordingly. Ex: are they the type to run at first heartbeat, they type that tries their damnest to blind the killer, etc. Let's you predict how they run and prep and aim accordingly.
For downs specifically:
- Try for "mid range" shots . They're the easiest to land (our opinions).
- Funnelled survivors are a easy targets, just try to swarm them before they get to the funnel.
- Don't force crow hits and forget about m1s. Your goal is downs so an m1 to injure helps it along.
- Depending on how willing you are to spend bp the hands add on is nice to swarm grouping survivors. Otherwise go with both yellow CD reduction. Quicker CD means more birds, and who doesn't like birds~
There's probably more we're forgetting but hopefully this helps.
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Made for this, resilience, lithe/SB/DH, your choice that doesn't interfere with the rest (recommend lucky break or stealth). Disclaimer, this is for typical ghouls.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906237#Comment_3906237
please show me a generic build that works on all killers, that can give at least 2k with just basic perks. (please read my reply below).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906236#Comment_3906236
Dont you play to win?
Im starting to wonder how much time you have spend as killer, but let me tell you. loosing 5 gens after 3 hooks because you have no gen defence, is not fun.
But i get it, you dont care if you loose all you games right???
Now this leads us back the the argument where we need 4500 Iri Shards, not 4k as you wrote (unless something have changed) just to get 1 out of 4 perks, this will take forever if you loose all your games. And you need 18.000 iri shards to earn 4 killers with perks with out spending money.
THIS is why it matters.
And if you want to play another killer, you need another build that (surprise) require you to get some new perks, why? because as i stated already, Trapper and Nurse have very different play-styles and need different builds to play effective.
Sloppy Butcher, Spies/Whispers, Iron Grasp, Noed. "Solid" on practically everyone sans Nurse (and even then it "works" on her). Getting a 2k kinda depends on the player though as player whos horrible will still do horrible no mater what build.
Your also missing something, some killers like our favored Artist has multiple perks that are "solid" for multiple killers. The amount of killers youd need to unlock is less than youd think to get a general "solid" build, unless your going for something specific of course.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906183#Comment_3906183
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906187#Comment_3906187
True, so this leads to my next question, how much time realistically would you have to spend to farm the shards you need to buy the perks for a solid build? - all while using only free perks that are not optimal.
And what will you do if you want to play another killer? i doubt anyone will really do that. I mean trapper and nurse probably are better off with different builds.
Depends on what you'd define as a "solid build".
And if you want to play another killer…play the other killer? -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906140#Comment_3906140
how so? if your answer is the shrine, then you just confirm that you only read half of my post
You can unlock those perks by unlocking those killers with iridescent shards, aka those blueish ones you get by playing the game. Pain Res, Pop, Corrupt, and Nowhere to Hide can be unlocked free without the shrine.
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@UknownShredder said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905268#Comment_3905268
If you read anything he said he said, if you invite x amount of players to your party you get penalized by X amount of regression, So then that balance the coms out a little bit and it does not matter if they sit on teams.
We read what they said, doesn't answer the questions we asked. In addition, you'd punish any randos who joined your group of it's anything other than a full 4 man.
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905268#Comment_3905268
I believe the point is ranked solo mode for killers where they only play against solo teams not swf? Or possibly suggesting that the only mode to get ranks in (BP and rewards) is soloq. Which I do agree should be a thing. There is a custom mode for friends to play together but if they want to get rewards they should have to play solo.
Restricting the main rank mode to soloq only would help a lot to limit the amount of external help survivors get such as coms and make it easier and fairer to balance the game. Wouldn't need to have killers keep up with swf which results in them being op when going against solo. It would also mean bhvr wouldn't need to control external issues such as coms (because how could they monitor someone communicating on discord or twitch or in the same room). Answer being make ranked mode soloq only or possibly have separate mode for swf. Chances are that will never happen tho because if swf had to have their own mode they would never get a match.
Survivors can still play with their friends if they want but playing with friends should be for fun not for a tactical advantage of essentially the whole team knowing where the killer is at all times using something that's not built into the game. It's no different to hackers using external software to gain a tactical advantage this is why it should be limited to custom play not the main rank mode.
Well that makes more sense for the op title, even if we disagree with the rest.
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Probably not explicitly the best but give this a try (disclaimer, plague will wreck your day with this):
Shoulder the Burden: Since your going helpful stealth, we're assuming your doing safe unhooks. Giving a teammate an extra hook state can be very useful.
Botany/We'll make it/For the people: From lowest to highest risk. Depending on how comfortable you are with taking risks, quickly healing teammates right of the hook. Botany for general flexibility, we'll make it for rescues and occasional not rescue heals, for the people for quick "hi, bye" heals, emergency heals, or for laughs. Usually all 3.
Empathetic connection/Kindred/Resilience: Depending on choice 2, match them. Empathetic so those who want heals can find you with bonus healing. Kindred is just generally nice and helps figure out what you need to do next with your wild teammates. Resilience since if you use for the people and your broken for awhile, you might as well get a boost to practically everything during it.
The last depends on what you want to help the team with. A gen perk like prove for gen jockeying, wire tap for group info, second wind or windows for your own survivability in chases, it's a big list for the last.
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We'd be willing to test that (depending on how much) but we don't think it's a good idea overall. What we got now is kinda like "chase, killer gets hook, a gen or 2 gets nuked, repeat until gens finish or everyone is dead". We got a very variable timeframe and not a flat added time to everything.