Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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ohhhhhhh its been awhile since we've seen a doom and gloom post
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@SixthSinse said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864676#Comment_3864676
Nah, respectfully as the consumer, gimmie more.
If you want me to commit time to consuming art (books, TV, Movies, Games) Then chisel it into something I'd like tp consume. Gimmie More.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "worse in the past." Last I checked, the blood web and it's piecemeal approach to leveling has been the same since launch? At least thats how its been for me? lol I dont know. I just dont bother anymore. Its slow watching it go by. Sorry for the necroSince you put the effort to revive a zombie well paint a picture.
The "worse in the past" was something like this: For each character you had to click one thing on the blood web at a time. There was no big red button in the middle to finish the webs fast and you couldn't just click on the thing you wanted without manually going through each node, of which each took a couple seconds. It was one by one. You also had to unlock teachables on each specific character then find said perks on each other character (for example, if you wanted level 3 deadhard on feng, youd have to level david, unlock the teachable version of DH then level feng and find it and get it three times. This was for each character.). Prestige a character only unlocked cosmetics, not perks like they do now (or on Jan 3rd when we replied the first time). Prices were also up more and bp gains weren't as high (as said above us) with no incentive bp boosting to a needed role meaning even being able to go through the web was slower in addition to the previous. -
@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937146#Comment_3937146
Well then why on earth is "ggez" not at least a thing that gets censored, yet if I say the word "kill" in a game about there being Killers trying to kill people, THAT is censored?
At least neuter the fun of saying ggez by censoring "ggez" and "ez". "gg"/"ggs" can stay.
Blame whomever programmed that quack filter, don't need to convince us of improvements
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937187#Comment_3937187
No. They don't, because multi-hooking is still garbage. It's almost as if, just increasing random stats of certain specific killers and having 2 perks in the game centered around getting multiple hooks, isn't enough to warrant multi-hooking. If anything, those perks and changes just make the other playstyles better while multi-hooking stays irrelevant.
Adding a basekit reason absolutely would provide at least a BIGGER reason for people to try out multi-hooking. People don't tunnel or camp because they want to, they tunnel and camp out of necessity because multi-hooking is a complete and utter waste of time. You actively stunt your ability to win the game, when you go for multiple hooks. Leaving yourself in a 1v4 for longer is a free loss, especially since you get nothing out of multi hooking. You just don't.
It's only "garbage" in comparison to tunneling cause removing someone from the game doesn't have a equal. They tried to make rotating hooks more enticing and easier yet they people still do. The carrot has been offered, it's stick time.
First, people don't tunnel out of necessity, that is bs and we know your not going to believe anything else about it so leave it there.
Second your building up your skills so when things change your able to adapt and be able to handle more, so your losing short term for the long term. Tell us, do you think that a properly implemented (we specify as not being easily abused) anti tunneling system affects those that didn't tunnel like mad?
Third, what basekit reason would equate to a dead survivor? Some slow down? We had a era with huge slowdown and while not basekit, it didn't stop tunneling, doubtful anything they can add basekit would stop it unless it was completely borked. Anything else? Would probably be laughed at by a majority of folks.
Last, and this is more an opinion/question thing so not to relevant, if you were to win a game in the most boring way time and time again, would you still enjoy that game?
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936759#Comment_3936759
Literally none of those have done anything in improving multi hooking. Multi hooking is still far and away the biggest detriment of a playstyle you can do as a killer. Also listing "avoiding anti-tunnel mechanics" is NOT something that improves multi-hooking lmfao. That's the very negative effects I have been speaking about that deter you from doing the problematic playstyles but do nothing to make multi-hooking worthwhile.
Even after all those buffs to killers (which btw some of them have just been straight up nerfed and not buffed at all) and those hyper specific perks multi-hooking is still terrible.
Why not simply give it a basekit reason to do it so it isn't a complete waste of time and a detriment to do?
Question: did those not improve the value of multi hooking as you asked? Yes they did cause you get immediate value when you very likely need it rather than when you don't by rotating once.
Wouldn't it count as a increase by making there be a decrease to the other way to do things? Probably does but whatever.
Those aside, simply adding a basekit reason doesn't necessarily stop people from doing it the other way. Those perks mentioned before work better when not tunneling but the killer can still tunnel AND potentially get value out of them. Adding a basekit feature would just give those who do X or Y playstyle more and no reason to stop.
Lastly its only detrimental if you've relied only on 1 way to play.
Edit: fixing phone auto corrects
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@LockerLurk said:
The chatbox has not added anything except toxicity to the community, it's time it goes.
Wouldn't go that far, as the chat has made us a few friends. Besides there's an option to hide it. As far as we're aware it keeps it off till turned on.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936679#Comment_3936679
Absolutely none of the changes killers have ever gotten, have improved multi-hooking. Sure it makes it easier by just making the killers flat out stronger, but that doesn't mean it still isn't a detriment to go for multi hooks.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936689#Comment_3936689
Again, this is a bone headed reply from someone who doesn't understand fundamental game design. Adding nothing but negatives to alternatives is NOT the better way to make people play the "fair" way. All you're doing is frustrating one side, and appeasing the other. When you could literally just appease BOTH sides.
It's objectively incorrect.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936706#Comment_3936706
Name changes that have specifically boosted multi-hooking.
Name changes that have specifically boosted multi-hooking
The changes to perks like pain res or effects like grim embrace where you get value when you hook a fresh survivor and get that benefit immediately rather than after or if you manage to tunnel a survivor out. Or perhaps how most if not all changes to anti tunnel perks wont affect you as a killer by hooking different people.
And side note, if it buffs killer in general, it also buffs multi-hooking, since ya know its part of any killer's kit.
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Well, guessing we're the odd ones but we occasionally do like facing the ghoul. Least when they aren't trying to be a prick.
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The bug that kept getting Wesker stuck
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We vote Wesker since 3/4 couldn't play for more than 2 minutes
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@Rudjohns said:
"Hmm, why people don't want to play our game? Should we find out why? Nah, let's just make it harder to not play the game, and if they still do let's ban them temporarily so they really can't play our game"
It totally works
The "why" is the main problem and has been stated many many times now
The "why" runs the gauntlet from "I was tunneled" to "ohh fk it's pig" to "I got this map" to "I got caught under 30 seconds" to "ohh fk it's nurse" to "I got caught first" to "my build doesn't work against this specific killer" to "the killer had lightborn"... Do we NEED to go on?
At this point, yes something needs done since a lot of the listed ones are simply something that can happen when normally "playing the game".
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Birthday bird
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Honestly, we're just happy nothing got nerfed to hell and back.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930227#Comment_3930227
No, it never took that long in the previous iterations. It used to be pretty instant.
Shrug if you say so, we just remember it taking longer than that legion being around. We can't confirm or deny it's currently gone since we've yet seen any killer camp sans a bugged Wesker, and we don't know if that would trigger anything
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Think if there's enough backlash or reasoning they won't touch anything?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932726#Comment_3932726
It's still a fact that most of the "exciting 4% moments" are totally preventable by slugging, and they encourage killers to slug.
As long as survivors have the ability to self unhook on the first hook stage, it's optimal gameplay for killers to slug them instead of allowing survivors to get an "exciting 4% moment".
Wouldn't that then lead to the survivors ya know surrendering and giving an anticlimactic ending with 4 slug bots?
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932711#Comment_3932711
I'm thinking about making my game darker.
If they aren't adding the New Moon Bouquet back, I'll do it myself.
To be fair they just added it effectively basekit now 🎶
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Overall we're generally neutral about it, most likely because we don't have the patience to wait for to many killer matches.
Survivors is fine, the inclusion of the smoke bombs is nice, but that's kinda it. More surprises and chaos with ghost face added while Oni has basically become the new Billy.
As killer it's still hilarious to get ambushes and somewhat easier as gf and Oni feels "smoother" on a controller.
Kinda miss the green herbs but overall nothing bad, but nothing exceptional.
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We can only speak for ourselves but we'd say false. We'd love watching exciting matches, not a stomping on either end.
That said, who knows what people want, do what you want so you enjoy it.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930227#Comment_3930227
You're not crazy - it always needed the Killer to be there for quite some time, and it never activated if Survs were nearby. That's always how it worked.
Rude, the three of us are definitely crazy. It makes life interesting. But good to know it takes more time than that, thx.
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Is it good for variety? Absolutely. Is it probably going to get flak because of it? Same answer.
We're curious about what they're going to be though.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930636#Comment_3930636
What are you talking about? Oni is easily high A tier, and in a mode where there is essentially infinite blood orbs, it's going to seem a bit overtuned to people. That being said, I don't think anyone is calling this new.
People are definitely acting like it then
@turksmall236 said:
Oni is too OP in this mode, dude just zooms around the map 1 shotting all the survivors leaving them slugged for his little buddy to pick up. Atleast hillbilly has to charge up his chainsaw and his turn rate isn't as ridiculous
Oni genuinely makes me not want to queue up to play survivor in 2v8
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F63A7E36BI92/9ueeul.jpg
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930632#Comment_3930632
So just because it isn't new (which is not technically true because he's new to 2v8 in this context), it's immune to criticism or critique?
Ohh you can critique away, but everyone acting like it's a new op idea? We're going to call that.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930560#Comment_3930560
Oni can run into a wall to object slide, which desynchronizes his move vector from his look vector, which essentially allows him to "pre-turn" corners, because when he stops object sliding, his move vector immediately becomes whatever his look vector is.
This concept might be difficult to understand (because I've literally never seen anyone besides myself mention the vectors), but Oni is basically running in one direction, while looking in a different direction.
Doesn't really stop the fact that with the 2v8 maps being as open as they are, we've yet to see a Oni actually run into walls and be any sort of competent, but again, we don't give a danm anymore. Just seems..odd..to us how people complain about zooming across the map instantly downing people like its a new thing but we knew what to expect.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930574#Comment_3930574
I'd take that compromise. It just bothered me on principle because those killer powers are based off Terror Radius.
Vecna for example could still find people with his orb, That didn't bother me as that was more of a natural meta shift.
That's fair
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930412#Comment_3930412
Bhvrs only mistake with that mode was not just telling Doc and Legion players to go play Civilization. Those killers aren't supposed to work, and violate the spirit of the mode. They had no right to exist in it
Just curious but would it be in the spirit of the survivors just screamed yet didn't give a location ping? Just randomly screaming in the dark?
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We'd vote Trager, he was our favorite buddy.
...Though exploding ducks sounds like too good and opportunity to pass up…
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930545#Comment_3930545
Yes and yes.
It is like half a second to a full second faster. That's pretty massive.
Also slam is absolutely useful if you can hit the survivor their first frame after being uncaged and then can flick 180 degrees to hit them while they are trying to run away.
Ohh that's something we gotta see. We haven't seen any competent onis run straight into walls or spin in multiple circles. Would look hilarious. What we see is them being like Billy, going around objects to get downs as the speed of sound as those sprinting into walls don't tend to get those downs. While he did get a turn buff, we've yet to see anything close to a 360 Oni, let alone a 720.
Count to one. To us it's not that massive, but at this point massive is subjective here.
Must have seen this so often. Each time we've been hit like that we managed to get away. And it's still only on an uncage in the Oni's face.
But ya know what? Sure. We don't particularly give a danm anymore. We see Oni and Billy here in 2v8 as one and the same. If it's just us, ohh well, least we'll be able to handle it.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930519#Comment_3930519
Billy can't run into walls for 10 years to get a good angle.
Billy can't 720 flick around corners after his initial dash.
Point blank charge for oni to instadown takes less time than Billy.
Oni's slam repeats and can hit multiple survivors and render endurance useless, Billy can't do that.
Do you see any competent Oni running into walls?
Do you see oni's doing double circle flicks? (360 is one circle)
True it takes less time, but not by much or any real meaningful difference.
The slam doesn't render endurance useless unless you sit there and let Oni keep bashing you, and we haven't seen a single survivor that was actually playing have that happen. Not have we seen him get those rare multiple downs unless survivors uncaged in front of his face.
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....yet Billy does the exact same thing
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So we're going to preface this and say that we're only trying to understand the whole logic behind these complaints. We are in no way shape or form trying to offend you, criticize, or the like.
What did you do against a team of Billy and Legion?
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930378#Comment_3930378
I'm not 12 hooking any SWFs lmao. I play variety killer on console and don't tunnel and I'm lucky if I average close to a 2k vs all the sweats I routinely get matched with.
Convenient to just say so isn't it?
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@xGodSendDeath said:
Love when all the forum warriors that are just 12 hooking SWFs left and right with Ghostface show up to tell everyone how they don't ever have to tunnel to win their games and killer is the easiest it's ever been. Conveniently they never show their own gameplay though and teach the rest of us how to do it
Where here do you see that?
Conversely, couldn't you show your own gameplay and all these so called "forum warriors" give advice? -
@upsideinsanity said:
https://youtu.be/YPcJGpjJeJI?si=9gH9K5HPO_JU-aFR
For those of you swearing the cages move - then make this make sense.
Note, there are 3 other survivors alive and they are all on the other side of the map, you can't even say someone was hiding close by.
While we're not entirely sure if the mechanic is actually gone or not, doesn't it take like 10 seconds of the killer being there? Legion came and went before the teleport would have set off.
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We agree, we think it would fit rather well as a survivor or killer chapter.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929118#Comment_3929118
There is no line. In this game, they're the same thing in my experience.
I think I'm done with this conversation. I won't argue with people who want to defend toxic behavior.
We want to defend toxic behavior?
We did not condone any of their behaviors. We made a case to point that adding a surrender for the endgame collapse isn't the best of ideas. We even pointed out there could be other options other than adding a surrender to punish the toxic behavior. What we want is something other than an anticlimactic end to every trial. What we want is something that wont set a theme of adding the surrender for more and more things. What we want is something different. -
@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928607#Comment_3928607
My friend and I had three speedhackers, two teabaggers harassing him (he has 100 hours and is learning Wesker), and another Surv who stuck around in the endgame chat just to spam "ggez ezzzzz was there even Killers" a night ago in 2v8. To a baby. A Baby. SOMEONE LEARNING.
Today I was in 2v8 SWF with friends, five to be exact, and we got a baby Huntress and brand new Legion just learning the game in 2v8 to try Killer. They were maybe 500 hours combined and got us, a group with thousands of collective hours, plus a very toxic random Meg who treated them both like absolute crap in the EGC. She called them names. She bodyshamed them. She accused them of being a lesbian. Then when I advocated for the Huntress who was genuinely trying and seemed upset, Meg bodyshamed and orientation shamed me. Oh, and she was hiding her profile so I couldn't even report her harassment whatsoever.
On what planet is this OK when one side does it but not the other? No wonder Killers slug to avoid humiliating defeats like this. No wonder some Killer players get such anxiety loading up. No wonder, no wonder, no wonder.
I have been the victim of online harassment. I know what it looks and feels like. I have been nearly driven to consider suicide by the way I have been treated online in games and out of it, because I had severe depression at the time and gaming was my outlet. There could be vulnerable people playing, there could be younger people playing, there could be people who have been hurt in the past playing. This is not a "just tough it out" issue either, research has shown that harassment and humiliation online (also called cyberbullying) can and does cause anxiety, depression, PTSD, trauma, and suffering. This behavior over time causes demonstrable harm to people and can ruin mental health. It's not just a little teabag, it's the bagging, the taunting, the harassment, the nasty words in the Endgame chat. Then they come to forums, social media, communities for DBD and they get even more of the same treatment and told to "git gud" instead of given a place to vent, often by more Survivor players who sit there in their four times as great numbers to specifically mock them more. This is not a welcoming environment for ANYONE to get into this game. And what is BHVR's official stance about it?
"Survivors do not have any agency, but Killers have plenty of agency." Yeah sure. Agency to be humiliated until some might even quit the game. And it's because the community, us, we made it like that.
That crap is absolutely heinous.BHVR has to do something about the toxicity at some point, my friend was fine and so was I, but the harassment and toxic nature of this community has the capacity to drive away people who might be new and want to learn. This pushes out people who want to play Killer, but don't want to be treated like this just for playing Killer. Not everyone is going to stick around to be treated like this. You know that and I know that.
I know we're both hardened old goats of the game at this point, we're numb to this. But some new player may not be. In fact, it's already driven players away. It will continue to. DBD has the reputation of being one of the most toxic communities in gaming - and as long as this stuff continues, it deserves it.It needs handled. It NEEDS handled. We need sportsmanship options; this stuff has got to stop. It wasn't okay in the Quake days. It wasn't OK in the COD days. And it's not okay here. At the least give us the OPTION as Killer to forfeit, because Survivor side gets it, why doesn't the other? If the round is a clear loss, it's a loss, let everyone get points and move the actual heck on.
Yes. It's not up for debate anymore. Killers need a surrender option in cases where the game is clearly over, they are in a checkmate situation, and the Survivors will not leave. This thread should now become - and has become it looks like - a place to discuss how and when to implement that. And if the Devs do not listen here, then we need to continue putting it in the surveys until they DO listen.
My friend and I had…
Today I was in 2v8 SWF with…
And again, we ask where the line is "being an arse" from "bullying"? That first one? We'd call that just being an arse. That second one with the meg? That's someone trying to bully people. If we add a surrender option for everything that could be constructed as bullying then its going to get messy. How many times do you think killers are taunted after they get smacked with a pallet? How many times you think survivors are taunted after they go down? Both happen often, both happen to be used with the normal parts of the game too.
On what planet is this OK when one side does it but not the other?
Neither side, yet BOTH SIDES KEEP TRYING TO DO IT. No wonder that survivor t-bags that killer who tried to slug for the 4k or that killer who tried tunneling them for who knows how many gens.
I have…
The people playing know (or at least we very much hope) they are playing with other people. They willingly and knowingly enter the fog with the risk of interacting with other players that, for lack of better terms, have ######### for personality. Does it make the toxic they spew ok? No, but on that same line, everyone knows what they're signing up for and the risks that come with. Its a similar vein to everything that has human interaction.
BHVR has to do something about the toxicity at some point
What would they do? To do something against the toxicity they need to first define everything that would be considered toxic (like our above t-bagging after a pallet smack) and then put ways to prevent that, effectively railroading how people actually act and play. Where would the limit be? Lets paint an example. If someone typed "D***" what could that mean? Maybe theyre calling you a "d**k". maybe they're saying "dude"? Maybe "damn" in the sense you impressed them. It would need gone cause it can be anything. Look at the chat filter right now for more.
I know we're both hardened old goats of the game at this point
Its not even about being hardened to it, its a matter of what the devs should be adding surrendering too. Adding it to extreme ends of toxicity is something we'd be for, but adding it to something that we can actually and easily stop as a player is not. If it were adding a surrender option when a survivor is X distance from the hatch, we'd agree (reasons: theres no timer to force them, they can sit there forever and t-bag while the killer is actually forced to do something to end the game. The main difference here is that the killer is actually forced to interact with them.). The endgame however, the killer isnt forced to interact with the survivors. They can break anything they left, practice using their power, and rare get a potentially stupid survivor for usually 2 minutes or less. Compare that to what the survivor can do when their a slug. You can slowly crawl and get some boldness points while being forced to watch the killer humiliate you (or try to, to us it just looks like their stupid). One end is milder and can be delt with ways other than a surrender button.
Yes. It's not up for debate anymore.
Wanna know whats funny? We were for adding at the start when it was posted till we read replies that changed out mind. It actually can be debated because theres other ways to deal with this specific problem (The problem in question: Survivors t-bagging at the exit gate). We've heard an idea to have the timer increase rapidly per survivor in the gate, another about ways to add more blocking the exit gate in general, there can be more…creative…ways to end that kind of nonsense without an anticlimactic surrender.
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928740#Comment_3928740
So there's just no winning...is there
In DBD? Never.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928485#Comment_3928485
This response is neither empathetic nor genuine, it's another way to try and make yourself look better while you advocate for literal griefing. PvP games are for everyone, Bullying is wrong, and if you can't see that I can't help you.
We will admit to not being the most empathetic of people, but it's coming to a point where everything that can be considered "bullying" will want to have a surrender option.
Tell us, in honesty, is the survivors t-bagging at the exit gate during the endgame collapse in the same league as the killers keeping 4 slugged and walking back and forth on them? Is it the same where the slugs the killer leaves who have no practical agency (defined as: the ability to do something meaningful) while the killer can freely roam around and do things (of which some are practical)? One of those seems more like bullying while the other is more like rudeness.
All games are for anyone who plays them and bullying is indeed wrong, but there's a certain line where actual bullying needs defined from being an arse, cause we're beginning to see it blurred here.
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Hello Billy
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@Emeal said:
You can speak around it, its also way easier to just speak nicely to people and avoid the trouble words.
Being nice is apparently a hard task
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Ya know, the thing we Rulebreakers learned from all the people here is that the surrender option was a mistake in general cause it opened the flood gates for adding more surrender options to everything
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926348#Comment_3926348
If you enjoy losing in a multiplayer game like this then you are a a casual player and don't have any say in any kind of balance discussion.
Please tell us you don't see the irony in this. It would be the most hilarious post we've seen in a long while.
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One of us seems addicted to Cain's broken joke build: Shoulder the Burden, For the people, Second Wind, Clean break
I like my Cybil: Calm spirit, no one left behind, desperate measures, Borrowed Time
The last says Ada: Wiretap, kindred, fogwise, dark sense
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926603#Comment_3926603
If you aim a crow at a hill and launch it, it will go up the hill and stay on the height of it. This also works up and down stairs.
It ends up hurting you more than helping, imo, since there aren't many places where you can really use that feature.
But, I guess I worded it a bit weirdly: Crows don't launch by themsleves, you have to be the one to command them to do it.
To be fair though, its satisfying getting a double tap down the basement stairs
@MechWarrior3 said:
Would it be too crazy if the birds could be aimed up or down depending on which floor you level you are on?
I struggle on dual floors.
For your convenience a previous thread with various general artist tips
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908811#Comment_3908811
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925952#Comment_3925952
Getting stomped by survivors using all meta perks for 4 hours because you picked a killer that isn't Nurse, Blight or Hillbilly is not fun period. Nobody enjoys losing in a multiplayer PVP game, that's just a fact. If you are a survivor main, i can see why you wouldn't mind that considering you don't play killer and the same could be said for solo queue players being stomped every single game. What do you mean by dull exactly? Survivors and killers using the same perks? That's exactly what i meant, just like TCM and Friday the 13th did. Them stating what kinda game they are balancing the game around would give us a lot of insight into the devs minds and how they view their game but it would also make a huge potion leave the game no matter which side they are balancing for. Identity has a competitve scene and it is balanced around the "unfun" mechanics such as camping and tunneling instead of nerfing it and making it easier for the casual players to keep up. How exactly would they have removed looping. Friday the 13th had looping and that was with a stamina bar. My point is that casual players do not want visible MMR because their reasoning for this is toxicity which is not true, the toxicity would not increase. The only thing that would happen is that those same players would use MMR as an excuse to be toxic and the veteran players want it because of how exactly the MMR works, people who say they are at high MMR when they clearly are not due to visible MMR and smurf accounts which is a thing in this community on both sides. They could just give the players the option to have visible MMR, that way if players don't want to see their ranking go up and down, they'll have to option to disable it.
For the love of **** mate, SPACING please
Nobody enjoys losing in a multiplayer PVP game, that's just a fact.
If you keep trying to group everyone in your "facts" then it's by default false, case in point we Rulebreakers don't care if we lose as long as we lost in an interesting way. There's others who think this way as well (we're in a discord server with em). Journey vs destination, we pick the journey.
If you are a survivor main, i can see why you wouldn't mind that considering you don't play killer and the same could be said for solo queue players being stomped every single game.
Ohh look…more trying to group us... for the record, we play both ends and prefer the killer (don't need to rely on anyone else that way). The reason were playing survivor more currently? The new achievements (and technical 2 of us are also Vecna hunting). Got 1 killer achievement and that's jumping off cliffs.
What do you mean by dull exactly? Survivors and killers using the same perks? That's exactly what i meant, just like TCM and Friday the 13th did. Them stating what kinda game they are balancing the game around would give us a lot of insight into the devs minds and how they view their game but it would also make a huge potion leave the game no matter which side they are balancing for. Identity has a competitve scene and it is balanced around the "unfun" mechanics such as camping and tunneling instead of nerfing it and making it easier for the casual players to keep up.
Ok first: "Dull" as in "we know exactly what they're running, what they're going to do, same ol same ol and there's no surprises".
Second: We have not seen any official statements on "what kind of game" those are in regards to "competitive" or not. You may have some of a case with idv since it does have an official competitive scene but them not nerfing things doesn't mean they don't want to keep casuals (and if we remember correctly, the survivors in that have a thing to make camping less desirable by making the timer take longer)
Third: If saying what type of game the devs want it to be would, in your own words, make people leave...why should and would they?
Fourth:
Survivors and killers using the same perks? That's exactly what i meant, just like TCM and Friday the 13th did. Them stating what kinda game they are balancing the game around would give us a lot of insight into the devs minds and how they view their game but it would also make a huge potion leave the game no matter which side they are balancing for.
Hoooow exactly do these line up? Genuinely confused.
How exactly would they have removed looping.
Emphasis on stealth over running. More ways to hide or disappear like the smoke bombs or Vecna artifacts compared to say lithe and DH.
My point is that casual players do not want visible MMR because their reasoning for this is toxicity which is not true, the toxicity would not increase.
Took awhile to get to the point...
Your words from a previous post:
Toxicity is also something that people that are against visible MMR say this will bring out which is true but toxicity will always be in a multiplayer videogame especially in a competitive one like DBD.
Well...which is it? Our bets that it will increase. We all can argue how much, but it will.
The only thing that would happen is that those same players would use MMR as an excuse to be toxic and the veteran players want it because of how exactly the MMR works, people who say they are at high MMR when they clearly are not due to visible MMR and smurf accounts which is a thing in this community on both sides.
Well, we should have read more through but kinda hard against a wall of text
So your contradicting yourself with what we put in bold…
They could just give the players the option to have visible MMR, that way if players don't want to see their ranking go up and down, they'll have to option to disable it.
This wouldn't work as well as you think it would. What do you think...lets just say a vocal majority, of people here would ask when questioning others? We believe it would be something like "What's your MMR?"...and a hop and skip later we come full circle to the problem we repeatedly point out. Since it's optional: if you can get it and if you don't give a number, your dismissed. If you give an "unsatisfactory" number, your dismissed. If you lie about it, they call BULL and your dismissed (probably what happens now but moving on). If you can't get the number after hiding it: dismissed. Currently with it hidden, this can't happen.
Look, despite irking us, we'll level with you. It doesn't need shown, it adds more negatives than positives, and generally will be used as another way for people to be ****s to each other and this game and forums don't need that especially.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924348#Comment_3924348
The game is not fun at high level going against the same perks/items over and over again, the only way you can have fun in this game is to lower your MMR so you can have a fun time beating on new players.I never said that they have to cater to one side, i said they have to say which demographic they are balancing the game for, is it the casual side or the veteran side? The TCM devs immediately said in their first livestream what playerbase their game is for. NetEase, the company that makes Marvel Rivals and Identity V (Clone of DBD and actually balances the game around high level such as camping and tunneling) and is still one of the most played mobile games in China. Trapper, the mascot for this game denies looping by definition, he literally put down traps next to loops. Looping was a just an evolution in this game, it was inevitable that it would happen at some point.
Apologies for the delay, we've been busy.
the only way you can have fun in this game is to lower your MMR so you can have a fun time beating on new players.
Well, can say that's untrue, especially when fun is subjective. We're quite capable of having fun as killer or survivor in spite of what they run. Though we admit it's incredibly dull that we can predict ppl in the first minute, what happens in the trial makes or breaks the fun.
I never said that they have to cater to one side, i said they have to say which demographic they are balancing the game for, is it the casual side or the veteran side?
Your previous words imply that they need to pick a side and balance around what they pick.
That is true which is why the devs needs to make their minds up of how they view their game.
After all simply stating how they view it wouldn't change much. If you're pointing to the other games to try and reinforce that we think it kinda falls a little since we've never seen NetEase state if either of those was casual or party game (we've all played both and last we saw, Idv didn't explicitly balance around high end players)
Looping was a just an evolution in this game, it was inevitable that it would happen at some point.
You say that, yet the devs could have removed that and instead emphasized stealth. They chose to adapt and more incorporate looping.
Lastly, we've indulged the off topic enough as this has strayed far from mmr
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For us:
Going after the most recently hooked survivor despite there being another equally viable target without attempting to chase another.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923671#Comment_3923671
That is true which is why the devs needs to make their minds up of how they view their game. Do they see the game as a competitive game like a lot of people that play in comp tournaments do where they break every perk and add-ons into a science or do they view the game as a casual party game like Mario Kart that you play with you friends and just have fun and don't care whether you win or lose. IMO putting people against each in a competitive PVP multplayer is competitive in nature whether or not the devs admit this or not is a different story altogether. When TCM (another assymetrical game) came out for the first time, the devs themselves said in their first livestream that they didn't view the game as a competitive game but instead wanted it to be like game you just chilled with your friends but like i said before, a multiplayer PVP game is competitive in nature. When DBD first came out, looping as whole wasn't a thing and all the players back then were hiding instead.
Honestly, we disagree on that. The devs don't need to cater to people of a specific mindset as long as it's fun for a majority of their customers, especially when if they cater to one the other is very likely to stop playing. We all can argue how well their doing that but the main point is that it's their game.
IMO putting people against each in a competitive PVP multplayer is competitive in nature whether or not the devs admit this or not is a different story altogether.
We'll hold our snarkiness on the wording of that to point out that the mentality of the players has an impact on how a game evolves. We've been here since Doc and saw for ourselves how it slowly (metaphorically speaking) it went from looping being a last line of defense to becoming the go too for many. The devs saw and adapted to how looping became more popular and a lot of those survivors who loved to loop were the competitive minded types and attracted more (yes we know this sounds judgemental but for once it's not). Now we got both types and another division of us v them with bhvr practically needing both groups currently.
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@frozzenk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923818#Comment_3923818
He actually wrote a "no you" level of argument, after one of the cringiest posts in the forum listing a bunch of bugged killers as "fine". Impressive lack of self respect. Keep on keeping on. You're getting somewhere.
Bout as far as you. The other replies were atleast useful to all by listing things.
As stated, SAW a HUX, plague, slingers and they didn't have any problems other than one being an arse. Meanwhile had played Artists and Wraith and had zero hiccups despite the OP apparently being opposed to them on the list. Sanees and PleaseRewind have actually listed apparent bugs that we have yet to see which would actually verify the OP.
Tell us, do we need anything better than a "no you" argument for you?~