Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875001#Comment_3875001
Going to stop you here as you're going off on a very random off topic subject. You're trying to change the subject off of the problem and instead about how I personally play. Most of your responses are off basis, so let's get back onto the subject- then I'll bother to respond. My comment has 0% to do with me. My comment is that the problem exists at high mmr. It's easy to get to high mmr. It's not remotely bragging rights to be at high mmr. My statement was that the issue doesn't really exist to new or casual players but instead at high mmr. I couldn't care less about your mmr or my mmr. The mmr ceiling is very low, so only having a few hundred hours can easily get you into the high mmr bracket - it ain't hard. This isn't chess. BHVR set a very low ceiling that's easy to achieve.
Now that you (hopefully) understand that - try again.
That being said, the devs do not balance around high mmr. They balance around mid mmr - ie for the more casual playerbase. They've also refuted the concept that the game is competitive and view the game as a casual party game you'd play with your friends. The problem is that anyone who isn't a casual player can easily get into those higher mmr ranks, so more and more people are getting into the problematic portion of the game where balance is just broken. At high mmr, there's so many ways to punish killers for hooking that it's simply more effective to slug survivors instead of hooking them unless you happen to be a high mobility killer. Any time a killer ends up being problematic, BHVR either mass nerfs all killers or mass buffs survivors which then makes the weaker killers even weaker which then pushes them to play dirtier and dirtier tactics just to stay afloat. That's also why higher mmr tends to always end up with the same killer picks over and over - all the other options just are too weak. Even the numbers shown by BHVR shows the majority of killers are well below their 60% intended kill rate. Now, I suppose that's me going off topic. My point is, we have a slugging epidemic because killers are strongly discouraged from hooking, but that's not necessarily a problem for the casual player which is what the devs balance around. If someone is posting regularly on the forum, there's a decent chance they arent a casual player, so it's not surprising to see so many people complaining (rightfully so) about slugging being a problem. All I'm saying is STB is the straw that broke the camel's back - killers are too severely punished for hooking survivors outside of casual games.
You're trying to change the subject off of the problem and instead about how I personally play
The problem is the following:
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874534#Comment_3874534
STB essentialy removes hooking from the game for the majority of the killers. Only high mobility killers can really effectively use hooks, now.
Your explanation heavily implies that it is about you playing the game. First sentence [effectively] below.
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874901#Comment_3874901
How? I've played the game. There's a reason some of the most experienced killer players immediately ensure the first survivor is slugged and not hooked.
Low mobility killers have been getting more and more punished for hooking over the past few patches. With STB, teams can now force those killers (especially the weaker m1 killers) to not have any kills by the endgame by forcing the hooks to be evenly spread out.This essentially puts them into a very significant disadvantage during the endgame unless they rely on crutch perks such as NOED. Essentially, there's too many ways that killers hooking survivors can be severely punished by the survivors. It's far safer and more reliable to just slug all survivors, now (which is a very unfun and problematic design choice by the devs).
Bear in mind, my comments are at a high mmr level. Lower mmr survivors typically don't have the organization to weaponize perks well enough to punish killers who hook. The devs do not balance the game around high mmr but instead at the mid level. The big problem is that it is pretty easy to get into high mmr - the ceiling is fairly low...so we see an epidemic of it happening in a large amount of games.
How? I've played the game.
We are not trying to change the subject. We are dissecting your explanation as we see and understand it. At worst we've derailed the op's topic (for what its worth your comments are more inline with the ops topic). The sentence implies to us that you've seen and experience these things to the point you confidently stated the problem quote. With what follows it then implies to us you believe your in "high mmr" which leads to the third part with that list.
My statement was that the issue doesn't really exist to new or casual players but instead at high mmr […….] The mmr ceiling is very low, so only having a few hundred hours can easily get you into the high mmr bracket - it ain't hard.
These 2 sentences do something funny. Since the mmr ceiling is low, wouldn't that mean casuals reach "high" mmr quite fast as well? Which then means that this "issue" would exist for casuals no? Thats not even going into what defines "casual".
At high mmr, there's so many ways to punish killers for hooking that it's simply more effective to slug survivors instead of hooking them unless you happen to be a high mobility killer.
As we stated in part 2, most of the things we can think of punish going for the unhooked, not actually hooking. Bar 3 perks that we can think of, most are for the benefit of the unhooked person. Killers are not discouraged from hooking as all the benefits from the first part of our post still apply, they are discouraged from chasing the one unhooked. STB especially doesn't do this as it doesn't do anything to the hook itself, ie: doesn't stop perks, pressure, etc. What we say to those using StB as some excuse to say "killers are punished for hooking" is BS.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874901#Comment_3874901
How? I've played the game. There's a reason some of the most experienced killer players immediately ensure the first survivor is slugged and not hooked.
Low mobility killers have been getting more and more punished for hooking over the past few patches. With STB, teams can now force those killers (especially the weaker m1 killers) to not have any kills by the endgame by forcing the hooks to be evenly spread out.This essentially puts them into a very significant disadvantage during the endgame unless they rely on crutch perks such as NOED. Essentially, there's too many ways that killers hooking survivors can be severely punished by the survivors. It's far safer and more reliable to just slug all survivors, now (which is a very unfun and problematic design choice by the devs).
Bear in mind, my comments are at a high mmr level. Lower mmr survivors typically don't have the organization to weaponize perks well enough to punish killers who hook. The devs do not balance the game around high mmr but instead at the mid level. The big problem is that it is pretty easy to get into high mmr - the ceiling is fairly low...so we see an epidemic of it happening in a large amount of games.
Theres a reason we don't believe a word of this. Its because we've played the game.
First off none of that quote has proven, or even related, to Shoulder the Burden removing hooks. Do perks that proc on hook still work with StB? Yes. Does at least one survivor still have that hook state? Yes. Does a survivor still have to get to the hook to unhook? Yes. Can the killer still actually physically hook a survivor despite StB in play? Obviously.
Second, should the killer be spreading out hooks in the beginning StB does little and the only way that it forces the killer to spread hooks is if everyone has it and everyone uses it…which spreads the first 4 hooks only. All those perks that "punish hooking"? about 80+% only punishes going after the unhooked (we're admittedly pulling this number outta air, but give us a list you think "punishes hooking" and we'll do the math for a more correct number). Swinging at the unhooker looks appeasing dont it? Especially if they used StB, its effectively free food in many many cases.Third: "Bear in mind, my comments are at a high mmr level" :has a few parts.
1: Don't actually believe you just from the first claim alone. Believe alot less since people who apparently have to say they're in "high mmr" tend to think it means something. More on that below.
2: You can't actually see the mmr number. You can tell just as well as we can.
3: mmr doesn't assess skill level well. For killer it says you got kills, not explicitly how you got them just like survivors who hide all game with wake up and sole survivor can be "high mmr" because they still escape.
4: "The big problem is that it is pretty easy to get into high mmr" by this logic then everyone would be high mmr and your comment: "Bear in mind, my comments are at a high mmr level" : means nothing by your own admission because most will be there at best or at minimum we would too and since we dont believe a word of this, we got 2 (technically 4) people of high mmr completely at odds.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874534#Comment_3874534
STB essentialy removes hooking from the game for the majority of the killers. Only high mobility killers can really effectively use hooks, now.
....how in the nine hells do you come to that conclusion?
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The longest "match" one of us had was 49 minutes (yes we did the math) Full story is in here
The shortest "match" (not counting DCs) was something around 5 minutes. Oni vs wannabe bully squad. Oni wins.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874131#Comment_3874131
Just wanna start that I'm not trying to be argumentative here, text doesn't convey TONE too well...
Your first example is essentially "Down ppl faster". That's kind of obvious, but generally just leads to people insisting the killer is "overtuned". Chucky got recently nerfed because although all he HAD was chase, apparently that was too much and other Killers that have mobility as well are probably on the chopping block for being able to do multiple things (Dracula and Lich).
The 2nd example was what I was talking about with hit and run. Every time a stealth killer gets complained about, it's generally due to THIS. The killer just gets a "free hit" and doesn't commit to chase. There's a thread up right now that are just filling up with complaints like this, with a ton of em just being eye roll worthy...
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/437111/my-beef-with-every-killer
We never said people are reasonable as people whine about everything and this is just our take. But it's technically just keeping survivors busy trying not to die, the most obvious is downing fast. You don't specifically need to down them but that's the "go to". Devour hope creates pressure damn quick once 3 stacks hit as people pretty much drop everything to go looking for it or die less the last gen is near done. You don't need to keep downing ppl with it but the threat is there creating pressure itself. A stealth killer has a weak universal map pressure against injured survivors as they can come outta nowhere to down you (it's weaken against swfs but that's beside the point). The survivors should try and heal or risk a untimely random down which is example 2. When those people whine about example 2 or a stealth killer, yes they're whining about that killer creating pressure and worthy of eye rolls.
We're also mildly sure that post shouldn't be taken seriously…we think anyway…
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872819#Comment_3872819
Cause people want to understand how badly implemented the mmr system and matchmaking is.
Would be a hilarious riot if it shows that it works as advertised
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874091#Comment_3874091
I'm asking for clarification on what spreading pressure even means since any tactic of it I can think of is typically complained about.
Then for us it's keeping survivors occupied with something other than the gens or creating a risk for ignoring things other than gens.
One example being the common 1 hook, 1 chase, 1 rescue, 1 on gen scene. You have 3 occupied and 1 working ideally. If 2 are working and if you down and hook the chased one then the killer will either force no one working or people hitting the next hook stage if the killer finds one of the remaining.
Another is all survivors injured. They can keep working, but the killer can easily snowball because each survivor can be downed and hooked much quicker which then leads to a much more risky version of the above.
In either case it either makes Survivors focus on something else or risk being in a worse position that would require a full reset to try and comeback from.
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Umm we're not entirely sure if you're looking for like our definition or something else so we apologize but ask for clarification.
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@Oputeeva said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874036#Comment_3874036
If you think that this will be abused, then you are wrong, let them at least turn on the visibility of mmr and then we will see how this will affect the game. Or devs can generally open for us a new tab with the history of the match (like in mobile and check mmr there, but only after the match, so that before the match no one chooses a lobby with low mmr
Those weren't the questions asked. While we personally do believe that it would be abused that is irrelevant. The questions were in the quote below:
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873369#Comment_3873369
We got questions now
1: how would showing your MMR number be a significant change?
2: What/how does showing this number compare to giving basekit unbreakable, which would be a significant change.
3: How is it necessary? Like at all?
4: How would being a main to one side disprove certain facts like people would absolutely abuse things?
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@Oputeeva said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873969#Comment_3873969
As I said before, players like the commentators above who have a negative attitude towards the visible MMR do not allow the game to grow, because of them the game slows down in development, but the gaming business is not a stable economy of some country but a constantly progressing business
You haven't answered how this would improve anything or be significant other than satisfying curiosity.
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@Oputeeva said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873384#Comment_3873384
thanks to old whiners like you, the game doesn't get the changes it deserves, because of this the player base is still stuck in one place and doesn't grow (there is nothing else to do in the game after completing the rift), because the developers know that you won't give them any peace if they introduce something that changes the game, especially when it comes to survivors
First: "Deserves" and "what you want" are two different things ya know~
Second: That answers absolutely zero of the questions we had. If you really want changes then make a logical argument for them. Not everyone on the forum is a biased loon and we Rulebreakers can atleast be reasoned with (bar a few exceptions), but you need to actually prove to us that whatever changes you want wouldn't backfire.
Third: The devs know that practically anything is going to cause a stir. They buff killers, some survivor will whine and moan, they buff survivor some killer will whine and moan, they add something new someone will whine and moan.
Fourth: something to do is to play the game for fun. Like…we highly doubt your getting paid to play and even if you were you'd probably need to find something to entertain the viewers. Games are suppose to be fun.
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@Oputeeva said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873160#Comment_3873160
the dbd community is always unhappy when such significant updates happen, thanks to them (and mostly these are sweaty killer mains here) survivors can't get basekit unbreakable and knowing this they abuse it with slug gaming from the start! So showing mmr is necessary, stop creating fake problems the game needs significant changes, everything is so boring and monotonous now!
We got questions now
1: how would showing your MMR number be a significant change?
2: What/how does showing this number compare to giving basekit unbreakable, which would be a significant change.
3: How is it necessary? Like at all?
4: How would being a main to one side disprove certain facts like people would absolutely abuse things?
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They're not really all that specific on what and how everything is and measured are they?
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@SelectDevotee68 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873178#Comment_3873178
First, I just want to understand my overall skill level.
And second:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y87XZGCHTIKE/v5pfeic.gif
*Shrug* ok, but it probably doesn't really tell that
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s5FUDt2Eqvo -
@SelectDevotee68 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873147#Comment_3873147
Most of the time, knowing your blood type is pointless. It's mostly just to know. Seeking knowledge isn't a bad thing.
True but the out cry for this specific knowledge has seen a noticeable increase, so we're seeking as to why
Edit: fkin phone auto correct
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872909#Comment_3872909
That's just wrong. Not everyone who has used gen defence is bad without it. Many who don't use it had used it for years, and found it to be extremely lacking in recent years. They then go on to use other builds, like chase and endgame builds, to see that it's an inherent issue that killer can't pressure no matter how they slice it. Now, they're either hoping to go against survivors who don't have a clue what they're doing, or have turned to slugging. This^ is kind of my story as well.
I did rely on Windows a lot as survivor, so the transition to never getting it wasn't nothing, but I managed. If anything, it's the same issues as usual that cause me to die. Not a lack of skill, game knowledge, or perks that work for my situation, but teammates who give up within the first minute. I can't do what I need to do to win us the match, be that doing gens while others are getting chased, or looping long enough for teammates to do gens, if they don't even begin to try to play. This is a team game, and I see far too often people pointing the finger at the killer, and legit NEVER questioning they or their own team's plays.
See here's the thing, killers can pressure without stacking slowdown (or being an arse and heavily slugging). Should both sides go for the throat at the start then it (relatively speaking) can go either way provided theres not a major skill imbalance. Now not everyone who used gen defense is bad true just like a survivor using windows isn't inherently bad, but the ones who relied on it are realizing that they were dependent on them to win/pressure. You managed to get over relying on a perk (in this case windows) but many others wont and they act like lost sheep most times without what they usually run (meta or not).
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@SelectDevotee68 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872819#Comment_3872819
Why would someone want to know what blood type they have? What's wrong with the desire to know?
in our heads:
blood type = practical medical use and info in case of emergency MMR number = something people would try and fail to use and brag about
we know not everyone would do that but thats just our thoughts
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I strong armed him and got em
Being a hero apparently isn't good for ones health XD
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We see it more that people rely heavily on what they're used too. People who stacked slowdown will find gens speeding cause they don't know how to pressure any other way. Survivors without windows or exhaustion need to actually learn how to loop without them.
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@zarakikenpachi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872619#Comment_3872619
but you already have 2 perks to get up without help, bill's unbreakable and david's no mither
Basekit, the op wants something basekit
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PSA: Rule found his in spam for some reason.
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Where do you check to see if they sent? Email?
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Out of curiosity why are people so curious about whatever MMR number they have?
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Out of pettiness we feel we should throw sole survivor down here. That aside we'd add somethings:
Distortion can also figure out add ons (such as Glowing Concoction or scratch mirror). It won't constantly protect you, but gives information you can potentially use.
Off the record may hide you from nurses calling, but doesn't hide the one healing you. If you have a medkit or self care then it works as you say, but if another heals you they are revealed (and by proxy you).
Object should be burnt into ashes and thrown in hell. This is completely out own bias and should be taken seriously.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872624#Comment_3872624
Well then bots and finisher mori should be gone. Bots being gone mean I can eat a small penalty for my fourth can get a chance for hatch, or finisher mori removed. With both gone there is no reason to slug anymore other than being a ass since hook respawns do exist.
Being an ass is about practically all it XD
Laughs aside, removing these doesn't really solve the issue of the killer choosing to slug. Removing bots just lets you eat the penalty for a decent reason. Removing the finisher mori also doesn't solve issue, it'll at best dial it down a bit. Slugging is a choice people make for whatever good or bad reason.
@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872619#Comment_3872619
Here are a few ideas;
1: The Survivors can pick themselves up under certain conditions such as;
- Only two Survivors remain.
- All remaining Survivors are slugged.
- A Survivor is slugged for 60 seconds and no teammates are within 20 meters (a distance that cannot be realistically covered for potential saves, preventing lose-lose situations for the Killer like in that horrid PTB).
Managing to get up using one of these methods (not in general) would grant a brief Endurance period (to prevent Killers from simply standing over a slug and down them instantly) akin to an unhook.
2: If all Survivors are slugged or if only 2 Survivors remain and one is slugged for more than 15 seconds, the slugged Survivor(s) can choose to instantly bleedout. These deaths would count as bleedout deaths (low bp, no hook actions) for emblem, challenges and pipping purposes.
For the first the devs would need to program in the parameters which would take awhile so who's to say they aren't doing something like that already. Another thing is that one also doesn't solve the killer slugging everyone to bleed as the condition says 2 survivors. Third is one of those removes practically any incentive for survivors to pick each other up. If the killer loses the slugged survivor for whatever reason (from chasing a flashlight to being an arse) survivors know the slug got a weaker unbreakable to up eventually. We know that we'd be content to work on a gen or hide knowing eventually the team gets back up from the corner. The endurance part wouldn't really work as the killer would probably just keep repeatedly slugging (in the cases of slugging for the 4k).
For the second has the issue of certain scenarios. First is when the killer downs someone and the other is nearby (probably with a light) or is seen/located immediately after said down. Generally the killer goes to kill the dummy who's spotted in these types of scenarios and we atleast don't blame them in these cases. Second is when survivors practically hand themselves up to die (down one, see another, down them, see another, down them, hook this one, lost 2 slugs with the last hiding). This one robs the killer of points and challenges if the last one can survive 15 seconds.
If we'd be forced to choose, we'd pick option 1, granted after adding/combining conditions.
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872619#Comment_3872619
I’m guessing my solution of base-kit Tenacity and base-kit unlimited Unbreakable falls under unfair and abusable doesn’t it?
Proooooobably yeah
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872619#Comment_3872619
Can make the perk itself then be unlimited but with a 2 min cool down on it , see this should not let it be too good but decent and 2mins is alot of time for killer to decide hook or slug. Just my opinion
We do kinda like that idea but that isn't a basekit mechanic.
If adding a 2 minute base unbreakable then left with the squads who can, for practical purposes such as lights, keep the killer from picking up the survivor who will be effectively bleed out anyway but probably longer.
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We're going to ask this again because we never get a satisfying answer: What can the devs add that would both be fair and not abusable?
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Because they're still weaker than the components, is {usually} punished more than said components, and he has to commit to the action when he preps whatever he's doing. Hellfire cant go through everything, he's slowed enough for it to be felt when he cancels, and missing has a decent cd attached. Wolf doesn't come with infection and he either hits with it or is forced to go twice with a noticeable growl saying to survivors "ima try and bite you". Bat can't hurt people immediately unlike spirit and can easily be stealthed {this last part might be opinion but we can usually stealth them and when we're bats we can barely hear a thing over the screaches}
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@BloodBird said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872001#Comment_3872001
You're right, someone told me she was missing but I rememeber now why I didn't put her 🙄 I fixed it again.
Think it's safe to save a copy yet? X)
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872013#Comment_3872013
Idk why this even is a discussion, this topic is about unsafe pallets not unbreakable whatever yall try to justify the way its easy to slug means this one time use perk is worthless unless they change it to unlimited with about a 2min cool down which imo is fair its too niche and if your are not slugged its a wasted perk slot.
We're just pointing out basic things about unbreakable which later admit to being in error of.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871884#Comment_3871884
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UU10G57DIZCL/screenshot-20250116-073809-chrome.jpg
I believe I know what I was talking about.
Umm it says increased by 35%... meaning 135% recovery speed right?
@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871763#Comment_3871763
Lots of survivors perks became trash so about 90% of them and what is sad is that killers has a perk variant to counter survivor version example hate boil over? Agitation or iron grasp is there.
Hate healing or boons? Nurses and shatter hope, I can go on but ill just use those examples and killers get mad and say I should not run x this to counter x this or that or its too weak.
Ub is ONE time use that is what makes it useless and aint no unbreakable one time use is gonna save you from some killers like twins the slug siblings. I dont even know what's is the point on talking about it has not been nerf, why would it need a nerf for its one time use and slow 35% recovery speed?
why would it need a nerf for its one time use and slow 35% recovery speed?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872000#Comment_3872000
huntress does not do that either iri head but it is still understood as 1 hit down. exposed hatchets.
Hu, didn't notice her there. Fair enough.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
where is Oni under exposed. His club 1 hit downs.
Kinda impressive for how much of the game has killer with Mangled or Exposed. Undetectable list is long as well. It's almost like every killer needs 1 hit downs and anti-pre run measures because of how balanced "Extra-hits" and "Hold-w pre-running" is.
Oni doesn't actually cause exposed though he just sorta says "fk you" to healthy survivors.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871527#Comment_3871527
I appreciate you prefacing the advocate bit. Little things like that make things much easier to digest when only in text. :)
Without lightborn newer killers who are miss matched for whatever reason they can't effectively get hooks while experienced killers have to be slugging (and this time it would be a fair reason) via whack-a-mole in this scenario.
To be fair, valid point, but not one I'm really going to add much to. This is a BHVR problem that would need to be solved, not mechanical. New players are a variable I don't think fits with advocating for or against a perk. This may very well be the wrong way lol, but how I see it.
Lightborn stops players from trying to/easily bullying the killer via repeat blinds and progressing the game (in a "timely" manner).I'd first say its not bullying to defend yourself with a flashlight or otherwise. They are trying to kill you. Bullying, for as easy as its thrown around, is still a survivor off gens, and that's the gospel of value for killers. At least for me it is, Im 99% solo'Q. Swfs? Yeah, different game. So there's that.
But, that said, if I were to do the same for Distortion, I could. For newer players, Distortion stops players from trying to easily/tunneling newer players with aura perks. If a survivor wants to make a sabo/flash light/bang play, Distortion would assist with this if the killer had aura reads.
I feel Distortion absolutely does its job in the same fashion as Lightborn, only with drawbacks attached. Now, the drawbacks are a bit too much imo.
When a killer downs someone in the open against a squad of lights, the killer has to chase off (or often enough down) whoever else is nearby.
Again, the more there to chase away, the more off gens. In these scenario's, slugging is the correct play imo.
Np, this is mostly a thought and to solve 2 of our boredom.
To be fair, valid point, but not one I'm really going to add much to.
We mostly put this here due to sympathy for our friends. They don't play killer (or in general play) as often as the likes of us and swear by lightborn to not have to worry about blind squads. We do feel that people should learn to be better and we admit to a little bias on behalf of our friends, but it's undeniably a life saver for them so we'd like to keep eyes out.
I'd first say its not bullying to defend yourself with a flashlight or otherwise.
We're not talking about regular blind save squads to be fair. We're talking the survivor group who are genuinely just trying to irritate the killer as much as possible. They care not about escape, just to piss off the killer. True they're likely to eventually die against any competent killer but the frustration and time gone is felt.
As for the distortion comparison, there are other perks that help with tunneling better (a direct upgrade for this is off the record which both hides aura and other things with a layer of endurance) while only 1 perk for blinds.
We'd agree that they do similar jobs if we weren't playing advocate but we also don't feel the drawbacks are too much (sans starting with only one token).
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Personally we don't care from 4-5 seconds. It's basically negligible in 80+ percent of cases on the killers who it affects the most. Probably wasn't necessary, but doesn't matter to an extreme extent.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871458#Comment_3871458
I personally don't see an issue with Lightborn as a perk, but if people are arguing that "one perk shouldn't counter an entire class of perks, items, and abilities" like this, then Lightborn also has to be on the list for consistency.
I have mentioned this line of thinking and it usually gets hit with 'Killers are the 1 in 1v4. Their perks should be like that.'
Its low IQ types of thinking but it's what I've ran into. How would you respond to that so I can include it in my own thoughts?
Ty!
Got a devils advocate argument if you want something different.
Lightborn stops players from trying to/easily bullying the killer via repeat blinds and progressing the game (in a "timely" manner). When a killer downs someone in the open against a squad of lights, the killer has to chase off (or often enough down) whoever else is nearby. Without lightborn newer killers who are miss matched for whatever reason they can't effectively get hooks while experienced killers have to be slugging (and this time it would be a fair reason) via whack-a-mole in this scenario. Distortion does not do a job like this before or after to our knowledge.
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Makes us look old but the only things we can think of off the top of our heads is siren head. Most newer horror that we've seen have been either unique indi games or rather generic (ex: some flavor of zombies). Maybe outlast colab?
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Thank you for the list. We do have 2 things to add.
Artist can cause hindered with "untitled agony" add on
Vecna can get haste with " boots of speed".
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We're not sure whether to show respect for the disregard of haters or malice since your build effectively cripples how we like to play…
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870613#Comment_3870613
BVHR nerfed early game and mid-game stealth but made end game stealth the most annoying it has ever been for killer. i hate playing games as killer where i win super fast and than you have last two survivors that stop doing the objective and prologue the game 20+ minutes by hiding in lockers or going in obscure parts of the map.
they nerfed the wrong type of stealth. the stealth that was related towards finishing gens is fairely irrelevant while the annoying stealth exists.
Means it's not virtually deleted then does it? :)
Snark aside it's still practically the same stealth throughout the trial. Your just as easy to sneak around mid just like the end and beginning (which is where the distortion nerf is actually felt in our opinion).
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870578#Comment_3870578
distortion is pretty useless now. stealth is like worse state that it has ever been in 8 years. virtually deleted from the game.
We must be amazing survivors then if we could do stealth before and after distortions nerf
For the topic: probably true. We saw a lot of people say aura reading is weak in our discord before and now they're complaining like the forums about wanting random (to us anyway) nerfs to aura reading. Does this mean we can call crutch and not be mocked?
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…may need to go apologize to some doom sayers now…
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868618#Comment_3868618
Making a flashlight save is a decision survivors make as a player for an advantage knowing full well it makes the experience far worse for the other side.
We can't tell if we're surprised or sad that we predicted this kida response
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867999#Comment_3867999
First there's about 5 of those perks from both lists combined that would be considered "meta" by alot of ppl (can't actually remember when we last saw a flip flop combo other than a kyf).
i intentionally put Flip Flop under just "denying hook" and not "meta" category, it's not meta at all, just plain unhealthy for the game. Only 1st list are meta perks (not necessarily in average soloQ pub match because people usually don't know how to get value of perks)
Second for most of that first list (those that work off hook) don't really do much except help against a killer who's near/coming back for them aka camping/trying to tunnel. Off the record and DS self explanatory, babysitter to zoom away, resurgence and second wind to quickly heal before the killer returns, etc.
all of those perks have much more optimal uses out of cases of camping and tunneling.
Reassurance for example also saves you time for a save even when killer is not camping.
Off the Record and DS have an extremely popular way of being used in very aggressive way, which is most popular in European region.
That second list has a couple flaws, mostly in breakdown and background player. The first would fit more in the first list as it works off hook and second on its own doesn't deny hooks, which would be flashlights or bangs. This is just us being picky though.
Breakdown creates hook deadzones, which are extremely problematic in cases where you are playing against SWFs intentionally playing that way.
BGP is not only for flashbang and flashlight saves, but for another kind of saves, much more powerful than these two: pallet saves.
If that's the case then there's 4 total meta.
all of those perks have much more optimal uses out of cases of camping and tunneling.
You'd really have to stretch the definition of optimal if that were true. For example reassurance. You have to be relatively close to activate it, so unless someone was hooked close to a mostly finished gen, it definitely is better to get another body to work for the team than to proc reassurance and work on some gen (this is assuming the killer ain't camping).
Off the record has also gotten a survivor to either waste their own time trying to eat hits or has eaten a hit so quickly it has never made much difference compared to making it less appealing to chase them fresh off hook (admittedly regional differences is a new thought to consider). DH is one of the ones that isn't primarily for tunneling/camping true but as we said, most (as in not all) of the list is {that said, DH is a parry. Don't see why it wouldn't be used for either offense or defense.}
Unless you are hooking multiple survivors in the same area in a relatively small time frame (in which case your not doing all that bad) that deadzone isn't going to be happening at the will of survivors.
Fair point with the pallet saves but the amount of times that happens is about as much as flip flop and that also still fails to solve our pickiness of bgp on its own not denying hooks.
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I wonder what's the point some players play nurse, get 4 survivors down and bled them out, enjoying his 4 minutes glorious time ?
You realize that isn't a problem with nurse nor solo survivors right? Literally any killer can slug for 4 minutes.
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@Lentara said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3866689#Comment_3866689
What a stuping thing lmao. I decide what I wanna play and what I don't. Playing surv is already painfull enought, DC giving penalty so only 1 good solution to avoid bs unfun killer is just suicide. Kinda recommend.
You decide sure but tell us: Is it good, fair, whatever you wanna say to basically wreck a match for 4 other people if you decide to say "fk this I'm out"?
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867272#Comment_3867272
Meta perks that have hook conditions/work off the hook
Deliverance
Resurgence
Reassurance
Dead Hard
Second Wind
Babysitter
Wicked
Off the Record
Decisive Strike
We'll Make It
Shoulder the Burden
Perks that indirectly affect hooking in terms of actively denying it:
Saboteur
Breakdown
Breakout
Flip Flop + Power Struggle
Background Player
Boil Over
Kinda have to poke holes in this one:
First there's about 5 of those perks from both lists combined that would be considered "meta" by alot of ppl (can't actually remember when we last saw a flip flop combo other than a kyf).
Second for most of that first list (those that work off hook) don't really do much except help against a killer who's near/coming back for them aka camping/trying to tunnel. Off the record and DS self explanatory, babysitter to zoom away, resurgence and second wind to quickly heal before the killer returns, etc.
That second list has a couple flaws, mostly in breakdown and background player. The first would fit more in the first list as it works off hook and second on its own doesn't deny hooks, which would be flashlights or bangs. This is just us being picky though.
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We're not but we kinda get why some are. Like LockerLurk above said some killers are more accessible than others. A casual person might simply want to stab people as legion over having to micro manage Hux especially if they only have so much time to play in the day. Why spend your limited time on possibly frustrating matches trying to learn complicated when simple easy death is readily available?
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Theres going to be a lot of killers conceding if they don't get a hook within the first minute...
While giving up as a survivor is very bad, the game technically goes on and can either come back or minimal get a rift done or some more points. Trial would immediately end should the killer quit and goals (good or bad) get chucked out the window for all players.
Need a different way to concede if you really want one.
Edit: hit send on accident
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3866303#Comment_3866303
freddy is always in dream world so he is always teleporting to gens. it's suppose symbolize his ability to control dream world and travel quickly through it. it's hardly fast teleport consider 5 second channel time. they nerfed. you can't cancel his tp.
That wouldn't explain why awake survivors would see a gen bleed...