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@James4125 said:
Same reason stale biscuit is getting nerfed. Behavior are obsessed with their stats and no amount of player feedback will convince them that they should be buffing the garbage and nerfing the blatantly op when the use rates are much easier.
Thing is, DBD is mainly balancing around fun. Aka, if the post-game match wasnt fun, and the common denominator of that lack of fun was a single perk, killer or addon, they try to change it to be more fun.
Lets say if Alchemist Ring matches on average recieve a 2.5/5 rating, it's not considered an issue, even if it's killrate is higher than average.
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@GannTM said:
I’m starting to see the issue now. Not sure how they can address this without gutting DMS or Artist.
The easy change is to add a 60 second cooldown after the unhook, rather than being able to have like 50% of the total cooldown gone by camping.
Or even go the Dragons' Grip way and add an second cooldown that applies after the effect of the perk.
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Thing is, Pig used to have a 28 meter TR, they changed that to 32 meters not because of M&A, but to standardize TR for future reference. So its either 24 or 32. Myers still is the only one who has a seperate TR, but thats kinda necessary for Myers' ability.
His reload times are fine, and otherwise his reload addons need to be nerfed for compensation, which means they are gonna be equally good when alone, but would also nerf the combination of both(similar to the ghostface change essentially).
The chain depletion doesnt matter, the fact that the cooldown on failed and succesful chains is now the same, rather than one of them being twice as long, is already compensation for the lack of instashots.
Of the addons, only the ADS movementspeeds need slight adjustments, the rest are (somewhat) fine. People arent likely to use them anyway and its very easy to make those addons overwhelming,
The thing is, the biggest reason why people are suggesting 115% on Slinger, is because it compensates for his 1 real weakness: map mobility.
Let alone that all other movementspeeds are derivitive of his base movementspeed. His ADS would be faster if his basekit movementspeed is faster, his reload movementspeed is faster if his basekit movementspeed is faster. Making Slinger 115% would solve like 99% of his current problems. The only issue I can see, is that it would make his tunnel capabilities stronger again, but its not even close to his old tunnel capabilities.
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741552#Comment_2741552
Technically it would just be a correction to a missed action.
DS should deactivate whenever it does something to advance the game in some way and openning a gate should count for that.
Thing is, the way Devs have described it, is that they want survivors to touch the lever unaffected by any other things. So no Madness t3, while Madness t3 disables pretty much anything that isnt unhooking or opening exit gates. Or how incapacitation doesnt block unhooking and pulling the lever.
The only inconsistency here would be that DS also shouldnt deactivate on unhooking survivors, which I think was part of the initial design but later was changed after some obvious plays.
I do think DS shouldnt deactivate on a lever purely because of the 1v1 scenario where the killer should have enough pressure to prevent someone with DS from opening an exit gate anyway, but that mainly means that DS shouldnt deactivate if EGC started through the hatch being closed.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739913#Comment_2739913
I mean if you have a strict definition of tunneling as focusing on one survivor to the exclusion of others, then hooking another survivor would mean that you aren't tunneling anymore.
Not saying I 100% agree, but I see the logic.
Except there arent any real anti-tunnel perks, there are just "dont rush kills" perks. Just as there are "dont rush gens" perks.
If DS should disable on another survivor being hooked, Ruin should deactivate after regressing 1 gen to 0. Or pop should deactivate for the rest of the match as soon as 3 gens arent done in the first 2 minutes of the map.
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@Akumakaji said:
I understand that DS is sometimes needed to counter tunneling, but as always, a lot of players nowadays will use it sorta offensive, ie run circles around you and try to bait you into downing them.
I sometimes think that the 1min is pretty long, for it punishes even killers who don't tunnel, if the survivors misuse it, and on the contrary punish ALL survivors, because if I down someone 30s after they were unhooked or something, I will leave them slugged, because they could have DS, wasting everyone's time.
And there was one very frustrating situation, were the last survivor on the map was on the hook, unhooked himself via Deliverance, and I downed him. I had a bad feeling and didn't pick him up, but I had to hook him on the hook closest to the gate, so he crawled out. One meter before he got out I picked him up and got hit by the DS and he escaped, just like that.
I felt quite cheated out of a fairly won kill, but I mean, it sorta was his build, I guess, so I can't complain too much. Still, it felt pretty aweful seeing him crawl away with nothing that I could do about it.
If a survivor can use current DS offensively and actually hinder you, that's them being a lot more skillful than you.
If they bait you into downing them, they are wasting time. If they get downed, they waste time of a teammate too.
DS is literally just a "save your own ass for 60 seconds" perk. If used in any other way, you wasted time. 50 seconds without doing gens just for a 5 second stun? wasted time.
And yeah, EGC DS is pretty much the only time DS is unfair, but the same can be said for NOED spawning next to a hook and you hooking a survivor next to NOED. Both are a guaranteed escape/kill and both need a fix for that.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731866#Comment_2731866
The other option is to ban players who do so, but without confirmation about their intent it's really hard to do so.
"What if the player is simply a toxic player? Facecamping and slapping someone while wearign that mask isnt racist, but the person behind it could be doing it for racist intentions."
So what?
You would either get a racist banned or a toxic player banned. Good riddance it is.
Both are bad for the game.
As long as camping and tunneling isnt bannable, you cannot ban the second part. If you do make camping and tunneling bannable, well, good luck banning 99.9% of people who play killer, because sometimes tunneling and camping is necessary sometimes, let alone that its sometimes unavoidable.
Slapping someone on hook could also easily be argued to aggrivate a survivor so they make more mistakes later on in the game. It's not the best argument, but it has merit.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732065#Comment_2732065
Not going to slog through a spreadsheet playing at high MMR just to tell you what I already know. Theres a reason people are not enjoying killer right now and theres a reason why survivor queues are getting longer.
But hey, at least they're nerfing killers now... right?
Right?
Guess you dont know that you're wrong tho. Because I bet that your winrates and killrates are at least 50% and 2k on average. Claiming anything less either means you're playing on an MMR that's too high for you, or you're just not realizing your own mistakes.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2736075#Comment_2736075
I mean, if you decided to stop playing the game just because BHVR removed the cosmetics then I could see trying to make an argument for a refund. But you'd probably get slapped with time limitations.
Also some people can't just buy the DLC at massively discounted rates. Please check your PC/steam privilege at the door.
"Also some people can't just buy the DLC at massively discounted rates. Please check your PC/steam privilege at the door."
Yeah, but you cant really give people extra or less because they own dbd on a different platform. You have to treat people equally on this one, and since Bubba has been out for 4+ years, 6k is quite a lot.
Personally, I would have given bubba the faces of Trapper, Wraith and Billy, but that would require a deal with the license holders since you cant just add a cosmetic to replace another one. That's not how it works.
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@Purple_Orc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732068#Comment_2732068
We didn't get them for free. They only come with Leatherface when you pay for it. Then we just had to go through the extra step to unlock them.
Ah yes, so, paying 500 auric cells means you deserve 1600 auric cells? Assuming you didnt buy Leatherface DLC at a discount? Let alone that back when Bubba came out, there werent many survivors and getting all 4 masks wasnt even a challenge at all, you'd literally unlock them on accident within a week. Right now, its still not even extra steps to unlock them, it's literally just playing the game untill you passively get them.
Taking all that into consideration, that means that there are players who got the masks without any effort and people who got the DLC for 50 cents. Which is practically free.
Now, 6k iri shards also takes some time to collect over time. I'd say about as long as it takes to get all the masks.
Remember Heartstone and the release of Shudderwock? Did those people who bought Shudderwock deserve a full refund because Shudderwock was absolutely gamebreaking and in need of a nerf? No. They did not. Changes are part of a game. As long as your purchase isnt removed, you are not elligable for a refund. Auric cells are part of a refund policy. Bubba is not removed, your purchase is not removed. BHVR is in a position where they could have deleted it, unannounced, and never give anything in return, because those skins were free additions, werent advertised as a part of the sales.
Heck, you would actually have a better argument when they changed Franklins Demise last year, since that WAS part of the advertising around Bubba.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732068#Comment_2732068
I mean... If you want to get technical the prerequisite to unlock the skins is to buy Leatherface, a licensed character that can ONLY be bought with auric cells. So, arguably, 500 auric cells would not be amiss.
By that logic, the prerequisite to unlock that, is to buy DBD, which costs money too, and since DBD recieves updates and is no longer the game I bought in 2016, arguably, a full refund wouldnt be amiss.
"a licensed character that can ONLY be bought with auric cells." also, false, you can buy the DLC, for quite cheap too. I've seen the DLC be as cheap as 50 cents, meaning 50 auric cells is the best you can argue, 50 auric cells isnt gonna do much.
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732285#Comment_2732285
Hey Ken, you are confusing copyright ownership and in game ownership. Please, just stop your strawman arguments. No one is arguing here about what is required or obligated. No one is arguing about licenses and copyrights here. No one is arguing about right here. What I'm saying is what I believe is justice. And you are free to have different beliefs. You can argue until you are blue about what other people should be satisfied with but at the end each one decides for himself. If you are happy with shards, please, by all means, goooooo enjoooooooooy yourself. No one is trying to convince you here that you shouldn't be happy. But many people are unhappy. It's a fact. Check reddit if you don't believe me.. Therefore I offered a solution that I believe would make more people happy.
This is off topic, but... please don't even mention "rights". Why do you think you have any at all? Many rights that you enjoy were not given voluntarily. They were fought for and demanded by people who were not satisfied with boot licking.
Copyright ownership and in game ownership go hand in hand when there are licenses involved, read the ToS.
And your belief in justice isnt justice. Justice is both sides being treated the way they deserve. What you've been claiming is literally only taking because you believe you were wronged, when the action is made due to racist abuse to take care of many people who have been wronged. Since the decision wasnt made around just removing it for the sake of removing it, your argument of "justice" kinda falls flat. Which is why I called you Karen in the first place: a person claiming to be in the right, regardless of circumstance, and demanding special treatment for being "wronged" in a situation that isnt about them.
And funny how you keep jumping to bootlicking, when you're the one stuck with your own head up your as$. As for rights, yeah, I fight for rights. Actual things that people actually deserve.
You dont deserve auric cells because people abused a free skin for racism. Auric cells are strictly about things that were purchased with money. You didnt lose Bubba. The skins werent advertised(people talked about it BECAUSE it was free and unexpected). You didnt pay anything extra to get those faces.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732217#Comment_2732217
But this isn't real life it's a video game
Your over thinking it an doing mental gymnastics to prove a point about something that doesn't exist in a video game
Actual racist stuff would be racist stuff said in end game chat
I shouldnt have to list off a list of slurs for you to understand that, if you haven't seen or read what racists say I'm defs not typing them here and getting banned
Anything you perceived as racism in the game
Unless it's in text format, is just you taking certain actions as something there not in your head
Let me give a example lots of people hate tea bagging right well everyone says it's to taunt the killer
Well everyone defending it says it's all for fun and in good laughs however you can never know which one it is
So you just don't assume anything
Let me put it simply for you understand
Actions in game mean nothing
Text mean everything
Does that make it easier to get
Except people are targetted because of race, people are mocked and mistreated because of race. People have experienced this behaviour enough to link said behaviour to racism, meaning everytime they get treated that way, with similar, if not the same outfits, it is as if they are targetted by the racist. To the racist, whatever they are doing, is fully intended to harass that person based on their skincolor.
That means the action itself is racist. It's with racist intent. No mental gymnastics.
Those are the facts. There are specific skins and actions being done by racists to mistreat players through racist intents. That's the whole problem.
"Actions in game mean nothing." Wrong, intent is intent, its impossible to read intent, but that doesnt mean it means nothing.
"Text mean everything. Does that make it easier to get" Which is why people get banned, and why racists stay silent in endgame, while harassing players over and over again and ruining their experience just because of their skincolor.
People dealing consistently with racism, are playing games to escape that reality and be treated like a normal person for once, only to be harassed by racists again.
Because of a free cosmetic that's not required to play the game.
You are the one trying to go for mental gymnastics to try and keep a recolored head in the game, that doesnt affect your gameplay at all. You never see it during the game, only in the lobbies. A cosmetic whose existance makes the experience of specific ethnicities horrible.
Imagine being jewish and having a skin that looks like AH in the game, that is obtainable for free and nothing more than a recolor, and being smacked consistently by a killer with this skin just because you are jewish. Other players do like the looks of that killer because it fits with other skins really well, but quite a large portion of the playerbase is consistently harassed by it. Would you really argue to having a resemblance of Adolf in the game, harassing jewish players, just because actions mean nothing?
Sure dude, totally not mental gymnastics.
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732184#Comment_2732184
Look Ken, if you are going to make up stuff, at least try to make it a liiiiiiitttle believable. How do you know this: "Pretty sure 100% of players found out about the masks being free AFTER purchasing Bubba."? You can search this forum and see for yourself that this was widely talked about topic since 2018. You can continue making your silly examples, but the point is... Killers are unhappy about stuff that they owned being taken away with laughable compensation. When people are unhappy they leave. And your queue is going to get longer.
There are people who will lick boots for any scraps given. And there are people who will demand what they believe is rightfully theirs. It's your choice.
"You can search this forum and see for yourself that this was widely talked about topic since 2018."
By players who already bought bubba, not part of the ad. That was your argument.
"Killers are unhappy about stuff that they owned being taken away with laughable compensation. When people are unhappy they leave. And your queue is going to get longer."
It's a brown cosmetic that is a recolor. Pretty sure last time I checked people really disliked recolors of skins. Now you're getting something that can get you a custom made item or even custom made skin that isnt recolored at all, and yet you're complaining about that. You're getting objectively an upgrade. And you're still complaining. It's not gonna change gameplay, it didnt cost you any money, and you didnt buy Bubba for the masks. Yet you claim that Bubba's free cosmetic masks are as integral to Bubba as a kitchen sink is to a kitchen? That's such a weak argument that I could let a 2 year old give you better logic.
A full skin as replacement isnt rightfully yours. Heck, if we're gonna talk about things that are rightfully yours, you dont even OWN the character.
Yeah, that's right, you own a license to USE the character. If the license holder demands that license back from you, they are not even required to compensate you for it, because you dont own the character. The license is just proof of the monetary compensation you gave to use the license untill that license expires or is retracted.
If you're gonna be "claiming what's rightfully yours", I could try to contact the license holders to take away your specific Bubba license without any compensation, just to prove to you that you cannot legally claim back that license. I'm not gonna do that, because 1. I dont care and 2. even if I cared, they are not gonna withold a license just to prove a point, but legally, you never owned the masks. You merely hold a user license.
This is why you can still play Demo, because the user license is not affected by Netflix' license withdrawal. But Netflix does have legal footings to also withdraw that user license if they wished, meaning you could lose Demogorgon entirely if Netflix decided to revoke it.
Yet even with all that, BHVR still decided to add compensation. They werent required to, they werent even obligated to. I'm not licking boots for scraps, I know my rights, you dont know yours.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732172#Comment_2732172
Like I said i'm not arguing it. You will never change my opinion since I have thousands of hours in the game and have formed my own. I think BT/DS are fine in their current state for the most part. But to have people in here being like "they only punish campers and tunnelers!" is the same junk people used to say back when it was basically "offensive strike" and was used as 60 seconds of invincibility to do gens in the killers face. They can still be used aggressively in a way that punishes "fair" killers and it vexes me when people swear up and down they cannot.
And I don't care, because I don't play "fair" and I eat them full well most of the time. Because like I said, it's the only way you are ever winning against competent survivors on a ton of the killer roster. So when I play weaker killers, I know my strategy is tunneling straight from 5 gens and that is that.
Fact is, 3 gens is 80-100 seconds in any given game. You can waste like 30+ seconds on a single pallet loop against weaker killers with literally nothing they can do about it. And that's AFTER you have actually both located and caught up to a survivor at a loop. That's all the math you ever need. If you can't add it up, that's on you.
And then you are going to say "the game is meant to be played at the 3-4 gens!" but also simultaneously say "punish those horrible proxy camper killers!" when literally by your own advice your best strategy is to hook in the middle of a 3 gen.
Yeah, thing is, I believe a lot of the stigma around BT and DS right now are because of their old versions. DS cant really be used offensively without survivors sacrificing progression. You literally cannot do anything useful for 60 seconds as a survivor if you want to use it offensively. Sure, you could provoke a chase, but there are more than 1 survivors to chase in this game. Provoking a chase for 60 seconds against a killer that decides to focus on someone else isnt exactly an offensive use of DS. Hopping in a locker in the basement when there is a survivor hooked there, isnt exactly an offensive use either. You'd just wait for crows to appear and have an entire hookstage for free because you're not camping, you're chasing a survivor who happens to hide in a locker and you refuse to do their bidding. I cant really see DS in any offensive state, except for maybe opening the exit gates.
I do a lot of math actually, you wouldnt really know, but during that 30+ second chase, it often removes a very strong pallet very early in the game, meaning that survivors can never really use that area again. Since that chase happens in a location where gens arent being done, that means that now there is a generator that has no real protective use, nor a relatively safe way out. Saving you time later in the game.
"And then you are going to say "the game is meant to be played at the 3-4 gens!" but also simultaneously say "punish those horrible proxy camper killers!" when literally by your own advice your best strategy is to hook in the middle of a 3 gen."
And this is where you are mistaken. A proxy-camp means you stick around a hook BECAUSE you hooked a survivor there regardless of the generator. You're patrolling that area purely because of a survivor being there and often risking to lose all the generators because of it. Hooking someone in the middle of your patrol area is simply good strategy. You're already patrolling the area and you've added more pressure for survivors to actually enter your area at the cost of a hooktrade at best. You're actively making sure the generators are slowed down while multitasking and quickly picking up a chase after an unhook.
You cant really tunnel a survivor when there is 2 survivors left, you've literally exhausted your other options. DS wont really change the outcome of the game in any way at that point and it's not worth trying to adjust it because of it. In fact, it's often better for survivors to miss DS since they arent gonna gain enough BP to compensate for the time. Survivors lose all their healing progression when they lose a healthstate, so even if they were at 99%, unless they planned and prepared for such a specific situation(in which case, sure, it's used somewhat offensively, but is it really gonna matter at that moment? Before the hatch changes, sure, it could be the difference between a 2k and a 4k, but nowadays? It's at best the difference between a 3k and a 4k, not really that big of a deal).
However, one thing I would definitely want to add here is this: Killers absolutely need Fire-Up to be basekit. Killers are fine slowly kicking pallets early game, but late game 1 second can be the difference between being able to break a pallet and catch up before they open the exit gate. Killers lack a minor build up to late game. It's not even much. 20% is fast enough to make the flow of chases much quicker. It allows killers to quickly break a pallet and prevent a gen from being finished. It allows to pick up survivors faster(and thus make flashlight saves harder to time), it allows to actually use window vaults mid-chase late in game since you're faster going through than going around. It's even good at dropping survivors faster and thus reduce the time needed to prevent an unhook from happening. It's easy to add in the tutorial too. Not that hard.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732117#Comment_2732117
I don't entirely understand how there could be that much legal kerfluffle around banning someone for repeatedly doing something if you make that something against the rules, but I will concede it's really hard to prove whether or not someone knew whether or not what race a player is. It's... easier to prove with streamers, but much less so when it's a matter of looking at people's profiles or extrapolating from their names. That's an angle I hadn't adequately thought out, and you're right, players could easily unknowingly be dinged for this when in actuality they pay no attention at all what's on people's profiles and are just sparing or killing certain players because Feng didn't want to farm or the other three were cute or whatever.
Thank you for that, because it's done more to convince me why this decision was made than anything else I've heard today. I'm still cynical that this change will do much to help, but it at least sheds light on why improved moderation was not the obvious solution it seemed to be.
I still want it, though - it fixes way more problems than just this. And I'd prefer match replay be handled in-house than the current system of having players essentially have to use an external website to write up a proper report that will actually be heeded, because that is unnecessarily obfuscating and clunky and I can't think of a single other game that's ever required people to go that out of their way to report people.
Yeah, 100% that replays from the games would have made past moderation and make future moderation much, much easier. It gives players the input to point things out. It would be much easier to warn people that their behaviour seems racist and that they are urged to stop said behaviour because their actions are making players feel unsafe.
There is 1 thing I didnt mention tho. Even with all the legal stuff, there still is a way. To basically make it part of the ToS to reply to moderators, and that a lack of reply to questioning may result in an undeserved ban.
But then you still have the issue that people could lie. You'd still have players feeling harassed and harmed for something that is free to get. You could remove those skins from people who harassed or seemingly harassed players with it, but that wouldnt prevent it. Similar to the hacker situation. It's not exactly hard to get a new copy with a cheap bubba license these days. Bubba's DLC has seen very low prices over the years, especially if you're buying those on accounts where the price is already lower(in Turkey, for example, Bubba's DLC has been worth 50 cents, but can only be gifted to turkish accounts).
Prevention simply is the easier way. Gets rid of all the potential legal issues, removes the problem even if it impacts the satisfaction of players a bit. I personally would preferred the faces to be merged instead, have a stitched version of all 4 survivors(would be very unique too, and falls in the scope of DBD lore considering survivor's faces arent safe from his chainsaw, forcing bubba to stitch the pieces that are unharmed together instead). Which would have somewhat alleviated the issues players have with the full removal. But that would also need to be clarified with the license holder etc, overall a massive hassle.
This is effectively the safest solution for now, untill a better one has been found.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732075#Comment_2732075
I just told you and you ignored it
Perceived is made up bullshit in your head that isn't real
And everybody knows what real racism is do you really need me to explain that to you?
I didnt ignore it, you didnt define it. Define "actually racist stuff" in DBD.
Oh, and since you dont believe in appearant racism. Tell me the difference between these situations:
- a white police officer shot a dark skinned suspect, that was described to be heavily armed and dangerous, because they thought they were grabbing something that looked like a firearm and acted out of self-defence.
- a white police officer shot a dark skinned suspect, that was described to be heavily armed and dangerous, as soon as they saw him, then proclaimed they thought they saw them grabbing a firearm and claimed to be acting out of self-defence when he merely saw it as an excuse to shoot a dark skinned person.
In both cases, the dark skinned suspect was an innocent bystander that, in the right lighting could pass as the description, and both claim they were shot "out of nowhere" by a white police officer and claim them to be racist. Both officers claim to not have intended to harm, both claim that the suspect seemed to grab a firearm. There were no other witnesses. Person A and Person B are both in the court of law. One of these is a racist, the other is not.
How do you differentiate the racist from the non-racist? Do you punish both just in case because ######### the innocent officer?
And no, this isnt a specific situation, these things happen daily in a court of law. It's exactly why it's so hard to trial someone for racism without risking slander. Because claiming someone to be a racist when they could build a case that they are not will cost people a ton of money for a false accusation.
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@Pipefish said:
The amount of iridescent shards isn't even enough to buy a purple item as they cost 7,000 iridescent shards. The honestly should have gave away a cannibal outfit to compensate but I guess something is better than nothing.
The irishards can buy you:
- 3 perks on the shrine of secrets, without having to buy the character(s) themself
- Covers 2/3rds of an entire original character, the month of december alone added 1/3rd already, meaning if you havent spend it, you have an entire character for free
- 1 entire yellow outfit, 2 grey outfits, 1 green item, 3 yellow items, 6 grey items. Bubba's masks were grey items. That means you basically get 2 grey items for free. "but those are just recolors" Guess what? So are Bubba's masks.
People here claiming that BHVR is greedy, when demanding an entire CUSTOM MADE outfit to compensate for free recolors.
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732068#Comment_2732068
That's a total Ken argument. It's like selling kitchen with kitchen sink included for free. Then removing kitchen sink after the sale with compensation of free concert ticket and asking to pay for new kitchen sink.
No Ken, I bought your kitchen because you advertised free sink and the concert ticket is not an acceptable substitute, even if it has same value.
Where in the ad around Bubba are the masks included? Pretty sure 100% of players found out about the masks being free AFTER purchasing Bubba.
So to correct your argument: "It's like selling a kitchen and giving the customers free cookies after the sale has been completed, then removing those cookies because people have been using those cookies to vandalize windows, where you're now compensated with something that has a value of 2/3rds of an ENTIRELY NEW KITCHEN and infact will cover ALL THE PARTS OF THAT KITCHEN if you dont like that specific kitchen"
The masks were never the selling point of bubba, your argument is invalid.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732065#Comment_2732065
Getting DS'd by full health survivors who run in to bodyblock is definitely still a thing. "Just leave them slugged!" so they can unbreakable after ruining your chase, right
BT is still used for body blocking habitually and aggressively. "Punish that proxy camping killer" when the survivors can freely just bomb the hook if you don't have a 1 shot.
And then there is the huge elephant in the room that it's been proven time and time again that camping and tunneling are the only strategies to beat good survivors unless you are playing a top tier killer with a top tier build. Expecting 12 equally distributed hooks out of clown is lunacy when you have maps like "The Game" that exist and honestly I won't even argue over that point because it's been beaten to death.
Gens are stupid fast, maps are huge and sometimes way too safe. Only a handful of killers can go in and try for 12 hooks without getting slapped (and then BM'd to boot). I personally don't care much since I only run 1 shot killers these days; there is no BT/DS/Unbreakable when people just straight up die on the hooks when you need them to. It's actually the best counter to all of them.
- Unbreakable is a time sink, slugging is a time sink. You're not really supposed to waste time on a freshly unhooked survivor, if you chased them off hook and spend 50 seconds on them and pick them up, full knowing you were wasting time because of DS that's your fault. Either wait for those survivors to start progressing the game again, slug them very early on and waste minimal time to create a time sink or eat the DS. Not that hard.
- Just punch them and thank them for wasting their own time. They need to head to safety to mend up safely before they can safely work on a generator. Meaning that 3 second cooldown on the punch gained you at least 16 seconds of that survivor not being able to do anything untill mended.
- Except, it hasnt. Camping and tunneling and actually getting a survivor out early is effective, but overall, its not gonna gain you anything. Camping and tunneling has been proven time and time again, against good survivors, to consistently win survivors the game. And who said anything about 12 hooks?(also, The Game is mechanically balanced, it's just really, really, really, really ######### boring mechanics to the point of frustration. I kept track and I currently have a winrate of about 60% on The Game, including SWF's, including optimal survivors, including games where pallets gained them a ton of value, I have had fun about 10% of the time. It feels unbalanced, when in reality its really ######### boring)
- Gens arent fast. You're simply biased that you need to protect generators while killing survivors when that's not the case. You slow down generator progression through trying to kill survivors. Trying to protect generators will more often than not cause you to lose games, while slowing down gens does not. You can have 0 generators remaining 100% of your matches. Gencount doesnt really matter. What matters is how much benefits you gain. Maps arent necessarily too big, it's resource placement(aka, too safe or too dangerous) that's a problem on maps. It's quite hard to place resources in a somewhat fair manner for all killers, since some setups make loops impossible for 1 killer, but easy for 20 of them. Some setups make loops super easy for that same 1 killer, but impossible for 20 of them. You would need to heavily nerf killer abilities, meaning M1 is always the most effective strategy, and then balance all maps towards m1 killers to have fair maps for all. But players have indicated time, and time, and time, and time again for the abilities to be the main aspect of that killer, making it very difficult to balance maps properly.
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@DeadArsenal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732054#Comment_2732054
If those survivors have that much coordination they only need one person to pop gens in the amount of time I have to expend using those tools. I'm not putting in maximum effort for 1-2 kills at most. I'll play a different game where high skill plus maximum effort results in a win.
Ah yes, because that survivor can finish multiple gens alone in 40 seconds time.
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@dugman said:
I made a similar suggestion a little while back where I recommended that area effects centered on a point or character have ranges that are proportional to the map size. So rather than a flat 32 meter range it's something 32% of the maximum width of the map (assuming an average map is 100m wide as a placeholder here). This would apply not just to area effect perks but also the killer's terror radius (since there are a lot of effects that happen within the terror radius).
Obviously devil is in the details, but I agree that in principle making area effect radiuses vary by map size could help with some of the balance variances on these sorts of perks.
Well, the Terror Radius is more an indication of the time it takes for the killer to close the gap if you were running in a straight line. The time for a 110% killer to close a 24 meter gap is quite close to a 115% killer closing a 32 meter gap. It's often the weaker killers that avert from this standard because they rely somewhat on stealth.
But while there are obviously perk effects that would effectively the same on all maps(take Monstrous Shrine for example), you can somewhat rebalance them by having different effects on different sizes. Monstrous Shrine could easily be much, much harder to unhook yourself on big maps, but slightly slower sacrificial speed, effectively forcing the basement survivors to be rescued by teammates(which is quite a big survivor timesink and discouraging camping), while the sacrificial speed could be faster on smaller maps(if the killer is away from the basement), forcing survivors to leave gens much quicker to go for the rescue, making the time between chases much easier.
Area of effect doesnt always need to be based on size depending on maps.(Surge is quite fine in terms of size, for example), but their effects can be made stronger on bigger maps.
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Thing is, there isnt good clarity on how dbd works. Which leads to a lack of clarity on why some decisions were made.
McLean has made it quite clear that the devs care more about the fun of DBD, than its competitive viability, which is fair, because I dont really see all killers be roughly equal in strength. Even if you were to buff Clown to be near Nurse in strength and potential, he would be EXTREMELY boring to face. Let alone that I wouldnt mind losing a game if the game was fun. While I dont really care for the win, if the conditions for the win are not fun.
In fact, I can bet I am correct in this:
99.9999% of the players believe that Invigoration has an equal effect on Clown as it has on Survivors.
When in reality, it turns Survivors from 100% to 110%, and Clown from 115% to 126.5%. Clown gains an extra 1.5% if both are invigorated, meaning even if both are invigorated, Clown does close the gap slightly faster.
This small factoid alone, is arguably one of the biggest reasons why there is such a big gap between the devs and the players.
Also, NOED on 115% killers increase movementspeed by 4.6% and on 110% killers by 4.4%.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732040#Comment_2732040
This would be easily handled if DBD kept match recordings in case of a report instead of leaving the onus on players to use external programs to record and submit evidence.
Everything that happens in the match happens with a blindfold to the current report system - every single form of in-game harassment there is cannot be discerned by the people going over the reports and it's all unconfirmable hearsay from not-necessarily-reliable narrators. But if you have a racist who's canny enough not to say anything in endgame chat or have a revealing profile who facecamps and BMs all the black survivors while letting everyone else go, and BHVR actually viewed ingame actions, this would only need to be reported, like, three times tops before you have enough proof that a player is behaving in bad faith and needs to go. Once is already enough to flag them for concern and perhaps send a warning.
Meanwhile, if it turned out the player in question was BMing and facecamping every player, or at least attempting to catch and kill other players, which would also be covered by the match recordings, that report could be discarded because while the reporting player experienced what felt like racism, it doesn't appear that that was the actual intent. Same if the match recording showed that the person who got singled out was provoking the killer beforehand, or any extenuating circumstance where there might be another reason. (Being able to save the killer's current active challenge would be ideal, as they may have a challenge to kill the obsession - though I'd imagine this would be a very rare coincidence.) When sufficient proof has been obtained, send a warning not to do this again just to be absolutely sure you're not hitting anyone innocent, with a next-strike-you're-out.
That's just for the players who don't say anything, though. Many of these degenerates aren't shy about outing themselves and give ample, ample rope to hang themselves with.
Keeping match recordings (until the lobby is dissolved, and saving them when a report is made) also has the benefit of being able to properly address hacking, all forms of hostage-taking, teaming with the killer, sandbagging and griefing, and repeated and unfair targeting over the course of several games. It's something that's needed across the board.
First off, I fully agree that there needs to be a replay mod for this game. Being able to download a match and single out the moments in the match is far easier for players, takes no time to set-up and is far easier to report hackers alone. However, back to addressing the issues:
"This would be easily handled if DBD kept match recordings in case of a report instead of leaving the onus on players to use external programs to record and submit evidence."
You might think so, but to do so, you would need to hire a very specific team to watch match recordings, find the moments where it happens and EVEN THEN, it's not gonna be clear cut. I'll use some of your points to basically show why:
"a revealing profile who facecamps and BMs all the black survivors while letting everyone else go" Except, that they are not facecamping and BM'ing black survivors, they are facecamping and BM'ing black players. You cannot typically tell the ethnicity of a player through the game, so this can be done purely on accident. Especially if there are multiple black players in the same game. You would need to contact said player to explain themselves, and if they refuse to explain themselves, there is nothing you can do without having potential legal action backing it up, as it's not solid evidence.
"if it turned out the player in question was BMing and facecamping every player" Sheer statistical probability means that there is at least 1 killer who will only do this to black players without knowing it. This can lead to very nasty legal actions if they are banned wrongfully, not only losing money to just cover the costs of the game, unbanning them etc, but also would easily be a case of slander, which can reach into compensations up to hundreds of thousands of dollars alone, just because of 1 free cosmetic. It's not solid enough to uphold in a court of law, that makes it very easy to claim discrimination and slander, and sue the company.
"send a warning not to do this again just to be absolutely sure you're not hitting anyone innocent, with a next-strike-you're-out." This would be seemingly fine, except that you cannot really tell a player to not play the game the way they want to play while all other players get to play the game the way they want to play, especially considering their behaviour isnt breaking the rules in the game. This again can turn into quite a cumbersome legal action where there is player discrimination. Since BHVR is a company, its far easier to gain evidence on them. For players, you would need to launch a personal investigation just to see if they are actually racists. Both can cost a lot of money, it's easier to simply remove the thing that causes the problem.
"Many of these degenerates aren't shy about outing themselves and give ample, ample rope to hang themselves with." These players actually already see bans, which is why most of them return on a new copy, maybe on a new device and remain silent.
Effectively, the options to keep the cosmetics are either:
- gonna cost a lot of money through legal actions
- gonna cost a lot of money through investigations
Considering the cosmetics are free, that is a LOT of money to be spending, just to keep a small portion of the playerbase happy and while the harrassed portion of the playerbase will still experience the same negativity.
The reason why it's very hard to prove someone or something is racist, is because of appearant racism. Racism needs personal investigation, and once there is actual evidence of racism(aka, intended behaviour), only then can you legally take action without being at risk for slander.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732040#Comment_2732040
Or you know only report when theirs actually racist stuff in egc instead going through mental gymnastics
It's really that simple is their racist stuff said yes or no
Again, define it. Actually DEFINE the difference between percieved racism and active racism. If it's so easy, why are you avoiding it?
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@tester said:
Hey BHVR. You are taking away 4 cosmetic pieces from Cannibal players. Price of a single cosmetic piece for Cannibal is 400 auric. 1600 for 4 pieces. How about you give everyone who unlocked faces enough compensation to replace what you are taking away? That would prove people that it's not just a greedy cash grab plot to make people spend money on paid skins.
Yeah, yeah, I know, not gonna happen. One can dream though.
Ah yes, because those skins also cost you auric cells to get.
Wait, what? It's not? You could get them for free? Oh, there goes your argument.
This is a total Karen argument. This is like having a 20% coupon on a 100$ item, paying only 80$ for it, and expecting 100$ back when you return it. No Karen, you paid 80$, you'll get 80$ back.
"That would prove people that it's not just a greedy cash grab plot to make people spend money on paid skins."
Cosmetics literally exist as revenue for the developers. How is that a greedy cash grab? You dont need skins to win. Skins do not give you any significant advantage in the game and are more likely than not to be a detriment. Players choose to pay for those skins. None of that is greedy by any means.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732015#Comment_2732015
BT and DS certainly affect the game, even more so if it's on every survivor. BT is already a get out of jail card with no activation requirements. A free perk if you will. Unhook a survivor and they will almost likely live. Then multiply that x4 and every survivor will have a decent chance of living after the first hook...
and then DS ensures that every survivor who does get hooked has a decent chance of not being hooked again...for an entire minute at T3. Multiply that by 4 because you cant hook 4 survivors at once... 4 minutes total game time where a survivor could not be hooked, but that's only if you want to wait out the timer.
So as a killer in high MMR you're forced to find new survivors immediately, even after 3 gens have popped, and hope for the best
"BT is already a get out of jail card with no activation requirements" BT isnt a get out of jail card with no requirement, it's a "punish the (proxy)-camping killer" perk.
"DS ensures that every survivor who does get hooked has a decent chance of not being hooked again...for an entire minute at T3." False, only if you tunnel them, or if they dont progress the game. In one case, you get punished for tunneling, in the second case, the teammates buy 5 seconds of time by being useless to the team for 60 seconds(or bait you into chasing them, either case, it's healthy).
"even after 3 gens have popped, and hope for the best"
The game is balanced towards the killer not being able to protect all gens. 3 gens being lost without you being able to protect them too much, is pretty much done by design. The final 2 generators is when the patrol area of the killer is minimized and their power most useful. Which is why between 2-1 gens, you tend to get 3x as many hooks as you do from 5-2 gens. The generator counter is the survivors' counter to open exit gates, not a timelimit for you to kill survivors. You can kill all 4 survivors before the first gen is popped, or after the last gen has popped. In both cases, you gained 4 kills. Your frustration at generators being done early quite quickly is self-induced.
How to get over that bias? Grab a spreadsheet, keep track of your results. You would need to see your match history to get over that generator bias.
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@DeadArsenal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732015#Comment_2732015
Yeah let me know when you have to deal with a 4 man squad optimally cycling BT and DS per survivor, flashlighting you every time you pick someone up (good luck avoiding it if they intentionally go down somewhere you can't stare at a wall), and chain bodyblocking hooks. Then tell me how much fun you're having. Tip: You're not going to be having fun.
I actually have. Here's the results:
- hit the unhooked survivor ASAP, give them a 16 second time sink to deal with while you chase the other.
- If they dont run away, or mend because they have DS, slug em, give them a 30+second time sink to deal with(or eat the DS if its early in the game, its not that hard).
- Fake the pick up. You can do so by standing still and looking down quickly. If there are people they will certainly try to get into position, at which point you try to keep them injured meaning they need to be a further distance away to remain somewhat safe(and silent), giving you a bigger angle for a safe pickup. This makes it so that 1 person cannot succesfully flashlight you without another teammate, which means you're keeping 3 people off gens and injured while the slug timer slowly runs out untill the right oppertunity comes.
You have the vanilla tools at your disposal, use them.
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@LoneSlinger said:
You heard it here folks.
BHVR would literally rather delete the only free, non-prestige cosmetic options available to any licensced killer rather than have a functioning ######### report system.
Not saying I support racists or anything wild like that
This is just my personal take on it
Quick question:
What evidence would you use to prove it's racism? What evidence do you think players have available that makes the difference between percieved racism(aka, something that feels like targetted racism when it's just a coincidence between a bad mannered player who simply likes wearing a specific skin) and actual racism(who is bad mannered and wears that skin BECAUSE they are targetting players)?
In both of these cases, the player who is/feels targetted has a very negative experience due to a single cosmetic item. So that cant be used as evidence. Afterchat maybe? Well, racists would simply stop using chat to do so. Encountering the same player over and over again because they are sniping you? Could easily be chalked up to matchmaking giving you the same player(I've faced the same player up to 5 times in a row as a killer, same killer up to 5 times in 3 hours time).
Seriously, what would be the functioning report on this, without falsely banning players? Would you really want players to be banned for a false accusation just so you can keep a cosmetic?
There is none that I can think of. Making this question somewhat rethorical. This is exactly why the cosmetics themselves have to go. You cannot tell the difference between percieved racism and actual racism in a game like DBD, yet the experience is the same for the player suffering from it.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
You know the game is awful when the most basic accessibility feature ever is the most exciting thing in an update
You're forgetting the motto of DBD veterans: "better late than never"
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@DeadArsenal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731988#Comment_2731988
You're a few years too late to ask Killers to be polite or think about the amount of fun you're having as a survivor tbh. Every single one of us left has been disrespected, degraded, or otherwise pissed off MANY times. The 4 man SWF all running DS and Borrowed Time doesn't care about whether the killer is having fun. Naturally killers stop caring if Survivors have fun too.
Except that 4x DS and BT dont really affect your fun as a killer unless you're tunneling. There are some exceptions, but those arent the rule. It's like saying seeing Pop and Ruin too often is affecting the fun, when in reality, its the exceptions where those perks are unfun to face.
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@Brimp said:
I still dont see why noed would need to be changed.... Noed definitely does not fall under "broken" when boons are in the game.
Boons dont even come close to the power of NOED tho. CoH's effect itself doesnt, it's area of effect does, but generally the closest survivor mirrors to NOED are DH and Adrenaline.
NOED's biggest issue, is that it makes an oppressive killer match even more oppressive. It rewards bad killers who are just oppressive enough to prevent totems from being fully cleared, but not oppressive enough to prevent gens from being finished. In either case, NOED isnt a punishment.
There are very healthy examples of NOED, but those kind of matches are often matches where survivors can communicate, tell where they have and havent cleansed, optimizing the totem cleansing time before finishing the last gen, and if they dont, they get punished for it.
If optimal survivor gameplay is the counter to NOED, and suboptimal survivor gameplay is the standard in public matches(even with the announced status changes, still gonna be suboptimal), then NOED is the issue.
It doesnt need big changes, just a change that's big enough to keep NOED as a punishment against certain players, without just being an oppressive tool that gains you kills for free in public matches. Heck, you could even treat it like Pentimento, where a killer just has to walk by any non-hexed totem(snuff it if its a boon and activate NOED after, all aura's being revealed in yellow), quickly press space and activate NOED and revealing NOED after the first down. This change wouldnt be great, especially since you could light up NOED next to a hooked survivor, but it would reintroduce the danger of not having cleansed totems.
In fact, I think that is exactly the change that NOED needs.
- Instead of trying to find some impossible to find dull totem to cleanse all 5, you'd just need to get rid of totems that are next to hooks or close to the basement.
- Instead of a killer camping a survivor all game in the basement and getting another kill through NOED due to a totem being impossible to find through sheer RNG, the killer would need to rely on totems not being done at all while he camps and find the nearest one.
- A killer downing an injured survivor and there being a yellow totem next to a hook would still allow for quick survivors to either sabo that hook, rescue their teammate quickly or simply get punished for not checking that hook for totems.
It would still validate builds that rely on NOED, still make NOED a punishment perk to those who play super optimal and dont cleanse totems, without being too much of a crutch for killers who simply got outmatched, still make cleansing all 5 totems to be THE way to get rid of NOED, still gives killers a chance on a very well hidden NOED etc.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731900#Comment_2731900
In case anyone is wondering why legitimate reports take so long to resolve, it may be related to the sheer amount of reports they get for things that aren't reportable, but still give people the sads.
Pretty sure none of the Unsportmanlike reasons are actually bannable. Camping and tunneling is unsportsmanlike behaviour at best. To me, and most likely to the devs themselves, Unsportsmanlike Behaviour is pretty much a way to quickly lose some frustration over a match against an unfun player. Mainly a placebo.
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@Haddix said:
Because I can't see it.
Naturally, you'd nerf something if it's OVERPOWERED, right? Not just "overused." Perhaps you'd come to the conclusion that some addons are "overused" because every other option is terrible, not that THAT addon is too strong? Maybe you'd give some SIGNIFICANT BUFFS to other things to encourage diversity?
So why isn't this the case? Why does BHVR do this?
I genuinely want some REAL dev insight right now.
Why was Mikhael's Eye nerfed? Did anyone ask for this?
Why was Toy Sword nerfed? By 0.05%? What's even the point?
Why was Stale Biscuit nerfed? Did anyone ask for this? (Actually, no, people asked for the OPPOSITE. People have expressed how AWFUL their 5-8 second fatigue feels)
Madeline's Scarf? Did anyone ask for this? By 2.5%? What's even the point?
Why was Marvin's Blood nerfed? Did anyone ask for this? By 8%? What is the point?
Why was Bubba's addon, Long Guide Bar, which virtually does nothing because the value it affects is irrelevant in 99% of Bubba play, given a number buff instead of a rework? Did anyone ask for this?
Why was Clown's Bleach nerfed by 1%? Again, what is the point of that? Did anyone ask for this?
Why were ALL of these things nerfed over ACTUAL extremely strong killer addons, I.E. something like Alchemist's Ring?
Speaking of that, WHY was a Blight addon touched, yet none of his other ones? I understand it may be on your radar, but why was ADRENALINE VIAL on your radar before his most insane addons? They've been talked about for over 15 months now. Hasn't Adrenaline Vial been touched about 3-4 times now? Why does this addon get changes 3-4 times but there is NOTHING for other addons?
PLEASE. YOUR COMMUNITY WANTS TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU THINK THE WAY YOU DO. People ARE NOT agreeing with OR understanding your changes. Please be a little transparent and give some insight, because you guys seem the be the ONLY ones here who have ever thought of these random changes.
I am going to make it very easy for you to understand:
Players rated matches against those addons to be generally unfun across the board, while other addons had mixed/fun matches across the board.
DBD is a party game, fun will always be a priority over competitive balance. If you could steamroll an entire game, but everytime you play it, players loved it, those addons would never be nerfed, even if competitively seen, they'd be absolutely broken.
I have played some very broken combo's, but everytime I played them, players loved it(killers and survivors alike). Never seen any of those combo's being nerfed. I've played some very boring builds, players hated it(killers and survivors alike) and not too long after, at least 1 of those components were changed.
The biggest reason CoH might not have been nerfed, is simply because the maches had mixed responses in terms of fun. Even if they were the common denominator in unfun matches, there were plenty of fun matches where they could have been the common denominator.
When playing as a solo survivor, I dont consider CoH to be busted. I need to be able to get healed in some way. Circle of Healing is effectively a way for me to run somewhere, patch myself up and be able to come back, making a boring match with a camper and/or tunneler significantly more fun. But playing as an SWF, CoH can vary between useless and absolutely busted depending on the map, my teams positioning etc.
It's easy to see that once you look at the nerfs, fun ratings make a lot of those changes make sense.
DMS probably didnt see much use, and the time it was used, the results were unfun matches from both sides. Since its not used much, the conclusion must be that it's too hard to use. Mikaels Eye saw almost unanimous use, but most of the matches werent rated to be fun, and matches without it were considerably more fun to play against, but not to play as. So the conclusion there would be to make Mikaels Eye's effect a bit harder to use, while making addons that are fun to play against stronger to be easier to pull off.
So if you despise CoH truly as much as you do now, to the point of thinking that hearing a boon activate instantly ruins the fun in your game, rate it 1/5.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731428#Comment_2731428
DMS has a cooldown of 45 seconds. If DMS is currently active and you hook someone else it does not refresh the current duration.
I tested it before in KYF.
45 seconds is a very short cooldown considering it's effects can stack with Grim Embrace, Pain Resonance and Ruin quite well(45 seconds of not being able to work on a gen often means looking for another gen, by the time it's unlocked again, it regresses at 2x speed). And the fact that the time between hooks tends to be longer than 45 seconds(walking to find a survivor, chase, pick up, walking to a hook). Let alone that it's gonna be incredibly powerful on Doctor.
I wouldnt be surprised if the 45 seconds gets upped to 60 seconds post-PTB(buffing the time a gen gets locked, while nerfing the Pain Resonance and DMS combo).
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"Pinkie Finger to me is the one add-on that (kind of) makes Clown viable, and is completely fair."
Ah yes, a clown reducing your movement speed by 20% and removing window speed vaults so you can very easily hit a bottle and instadown them is completely fair.
"Take into account survivors are difficult to hit with their movement even when hindered" They really are not hard to hit at all.
I dont think they nerfed it correctly, I personally think they should have simply made Pinkie Finger expose survivors who havent been intoxicated yet. That would effectively remove the easiness of instadowning survivors, but it wasnt completely fair. Calling it fair because its a 1v4 when you can instadown a survivor and tunnel them out early on in a public game and make the remainder of the game very killer sided is a skewed vision. Just like people thinking DS is fair once exit gates have been opened and a survivor can crawl through the exitgate without you being able to do it. Current Pinkie Finger is about as fair as DS during the EGC. The nerf, itself, was fair. You now get rewarded for hitting the survivor first and slowing them down later, than spamming slowdown untill you hit the survivor.
"So instead of buffing the perk in a super obvious way, like making it activate on any skill check, not just great ones, the devs do a horrific rework of the perk."
You're not understanding the rework properly. Whenever a survivor loses a healthstate(including For The People), the next survivor who hits a great skillcheck on a gen(which is very common in higher play) is revealed for 10 full seconds. There is no cooldown on it.
The current Gearhead, after 2 basic attacks, for the next 30 seconds, if a survivor is working on a generator and hitting good skillchecks, that generator is revealed. It effectively has a 30 seconds cooldown as during those 30 seconds, you cannot gain a new stack.
The whole reason why Gearhead was barely used, was because it's practically useless in higher play. Really good survivors will very consistently hit great skillchecks, meaning that even IF current gearhead was active and a survivor was on a gen, it might not work. This rework is basically making Gearhead better against more skillful survivors.
It's gonna be very easy for Gearhead to activate, the only time it wont have value is if survivors never hit great skillchecks on generators, in which case, you're not gonna be facing amazing survivors and maybe even survivors who miss skillchecks.
"What's the big idea? Do the devs not realize that 1 person on a gen can just hide behind the gen's aura, like they can against BBQ, and deny that info to the killer?"
Do you realize what needs to be done for this?
- survivors need to hit a great skillcheck on the side of the generator
- survivors, after hitting a great skillcheck, need to guess what direction the killer is so they can hide behind it(and potentially not be able to work on the gen)
- survivors need to assume you're running gearhead, as there is no confirmation to it.
Your issues are so extremely specific, that it makes current gearhead sound OP.
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@ApolloV2 said:
I played as a killer today and my first round that I played as blight was kinda normal but the gens where flying like freaking rockets to north Korea and I was pretty sure it was a hacker because tinkerer went of 2 times at the same time I was chasing 1 guy but heres the thing 2 survivors where there trying to flashlight save🥸 which means there was a hacker because how did tinkerer went off 2 times when I was chasing 1 guy and 2 other guys were trying to flashlight save. This was a weird encounter but not the first time that this happened🤡🤡🤡 man this is hilarious this game has soo many problems but I still love it I don't give up the hope!
Come on behavior give us an Anti-Cheat🌝
There is 1 thing that makes generators self-repair over time: BNP. Survivors could activate BNP on a gen and have it progress itself.
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@AstroLive8333 said:
Don't bother reporting people for tunneling or camping.
They don't care. They won't ban someone unless there is a death threat or a hacker. That is it. They won't ban someone for being an @$$h0le and tunneling or camping every hook. Don't waste your time
As long as devs do not give us a thumbs down option to simply indicate the player being a generic c*nt, I will use the Unsportsmanlike Conduct button even if its just to lower frustration.
I do not want to be matched up against players who dont have good sportsmanship. Being able to like/dislike a user and have an algoritm try to avoid being matched up with and against similar players through it's best efforts would make the overal experience so much better(its gonna be impossible to avoid all of them, but reducing the consistency of aggrivating opponents/teammates on a single day is all I ask).
Right now, rating the post-game match is the only thing that I know has a significant effect, reporting certain players also has somewhat of an effect when it's actually bannable, even though we never recieve feedback for it(which would also be nice, knowing a player got banned through your efforts gives you reason to keep reporting players who did the exact same thing), but giving a player a thumbs up? No reason to do so.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/302346/why-does-dead-hard-have-hit-validation
Because people complained that it sometimes seemed to arbitrarily fail (the 'exhausted on ground' issue).
However...
Dead Hard felt like it was balanced around these quirks, and was still the most common survivor perk by a mile. Now it's just horribly overpowered and if the new validation issues (fake hits and eating certain killer powers) can't be fixed, the perk will need to get nerfed pretty hard to account for these.
Honestly, remove the iframes at the start and end of the animation. Let it be a dodge, not a third health state.
I mean, personally, I rather have them being split in 2, one dash for range, but disabling killer aim assist on you(meaning a good spin on a killer does get a down, right now DH still triggers the aim assist even if it's not gonna be a hit, which is infuriating), and the other simply being I-frames for a similar duration, but no gained distance.
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@GuyFawx said:
does anyone still miss button mashing
Mashing a and d was inconsistent tho. If you really do enjoy button mashing, I suggest gentapping a generator from 0-100%.
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@BigChapAlien21 said:
I'm still kind of in disbelief that Nemesis and Twins received what I assume are going to be some pretty significant nerfs to their best addons in this upcoming mid-chapter.
I don't think anyone thought these Killers were overbearing. Maybe a bit boring to play against but not overbearing. So why the nerfs to their strongest addons? Personally, I think the problem comes from BHVR focusing primarily on stats as opposed to in-game performance. Maybe shoddy wording, what I mean is that BHVR saw the data of Nemesis matches for example, saw that most of them were using Marvin's Blood and decided that the best way to promote diversity was to nerf it without really thinking if Nemesis was too strong with Marvin's Blood.
In my opinion, it leads to a very bad situation where stats will make a Killer or addon seem overbearing (or in Nurse's case underbearing) when the reality is a lot different, and then these nonsensical balance decisions are made.
"Maybe a bit boring to play against but not overbearing."
This is exactly why. DBD isnt a competitive game, there is no competitive ranked mode. The killer winning doesnt mean the survivors lost. The survivors winning, doesnt mean the killer lost. Even with MMR, this is still the case. If you have(as an example) survivors with 400, 600, 700 and 3900 MMR, and the killer has 1000 MMR. The killer gains and loses MMR based on the difference between the kills. Now, if the killer has NOED, downs the 3900 MMR survivor and hooks them next to NOED. The killer only gains 1 kill, but the first kill also gives the most MMR.
Meaning if the killer might have gained a total of 100 MMR if he had a 4k, but now has a gain of 20 MMR(assuming he'd gain 60 MMR from the highest survivor, loses 25, 10 and 5 MMR from the escaping survivors). You'd have a situation of a killer getting an MMR win, when they lost. While the survivors "won", but the teammate with 3900 MMR still lost 60 points.
All this, is simply evidence that DBD is not competitively designed, but designed around fun. If something isnt fun(this is mostly due to the rating post-game, if you're not rating your matches, you're letting your games being balanced by people who do), it gets changed.
It's not done to promote addon diversity, its simply them seeing people rating the fun of matches very low when those killers use those addons, even if they ended up winning the game. While players showed to have more fun against different addons, even if they ended up losing the game. And that is quite important, to be able to have fun, even if you lose.
So remember kids, rate your matches on the experience.
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@GeneralV said:
Screw everyone who used them for racism and screw BHVR for making this extremely awful decision.
The other option is to ban players who do so, but without confirmation about their intent it's really hard to do so.
What if the player is simply a toxic player? Facecamping and slapping someone while wearign that mask isnt racist, but the person behind it could be doing it for racist intentions.
Not accepting a POC for a job isnt racist, but the intentions behind it could be.
A death by cop situation on a poc isnt racist, but the intentions behind it could be.
There is no way to call someone racist without actual proof. You cant. Even if you assume it to be based on circumstantial evidence, a person could look really racist through personal bias alone. But without proof, you cannot call someone racist and have them banned because of it.
The best course of action is to remove the tools, even if those tools are enjoyed by non-racists too.
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Honestly, its really gonna be hard to factor in the realistic effect of a perk when it's very circumstantial. On smaller maps(I consider all inside maps to be small maps, they might have 2 or more floors, but their footprint is quite small), its super strong, but on big maps its quite meh.
Personally, I think they simply should rebalance perks around map-size.
T1 perks for small maps
T2 perks for medium maps
T3 perks for large maps.
Having 60 seconds exhaustion on a small map makes sense, loops are crammed together, you dont really need an exhaustion perk in the first place. Having 40 seconds exhaustion on big maps also makes sense, lots of distance between loops, often large deadzones.
Boons could easily just have a static effect, but their ranges changing to 16/20/24 meters depending on what size map they are.
Iron Will could be reversed to be 100/95/90%, meaning that on big maps, you can still hear survivors.
It would allow killers to equip perks without worrying about what map they are send to, allow perks to be bought in 1 go rather than in 3 tiers while still maintaining the aspect of 3 tiers. Make perks overall more consistent without being too overwhelming on small maps, but underwhelming on big maps.
It would allow devs to make perks crazy powerful on big maps simply because that power is necessary to compensate for the time spend walking around(for both sides), without making them too strong on small maps. It's also gonna be quite easy to detect hackers who want to use T3 perks on small maps through an autoban system, as the perktier would be static among everyone for that map.
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@GannTM said:
Coup de Grace
- This one’s a bit of a rollercoaster: It was originally toned down because it was too strong, but then that made it a little too weak. We’re bumping the lunge increase up to 70/75/80% (also shortening the gap between different tiers of the perk, woo!)
It’s nice to see that an underwhelming perk is getting buffed but anyone who actually plays the game and has a good understanding of it knew Coup de Grace was never strong and the nerf it received from the 4.4.0 PTB made no sense whatsoever. So I have to ask to the devs, what was “OP” about PTB Coup de Grace?
Spirit, Nurse, T3 Myers and Wraith were the issue back in the day. 100% was simply too strong on those characters while not really having any cost other than taking up a perk slot. They nerfed it too much to 60%, which is underwhelming on most other than those 4 killers. 80% should make it slightly stronger on those 4, but at least usable on everyone else too.
I'm not a dev, but you do have to take all killers into consideration when perks are balanced. You cannot make a perk "ok" for 99% of the roster and "impossible to counter" on 1% of the roster. It's why most perks are quite mediocre at best, because there is at least 1 specific build that really highlights the potential power of that perk if it were set loose.
The only other way to balance perks is to change the extend of their effect on different killers, but that's gonna cost a lot of time and money for a relatively minor quality of life change, let alone that everytime you change the perk, it has to be changed on every single killer, and everytime you make a new killer, all perks have to be basically recreated and rebalanced.
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I mean, retribution is just lethal pursuer, but on a hex, crowd control is just bamboozle, but on a hex.
And it would stack normally, the way DBD stacks buffs and debuffs would easily support that stacking without it being broken.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726313#Comment_2726313
But twins gets hard countered by teams to know how to play against her and pair up in groups of two
There is no counter to spirit
There is plenty of counters to current day Spirit: pre-dropping pallets gives you more than enough phasing sound to avoid getting hit. You can hear which direction she's phasing in from, so you can pre-walk or even pre-run towards a loop that is away from where she's coming from. Once she has used her power, it takes 3x the amount to recover, with recovery addons being nerfed quite significantly. You dont really need perks
Twins' only real issues right now, is boon Exponential, but no one really runs that, and a smidge of Circle of Healing. Unbreakable is a 1-time issue. No Mither is a bonus.
Twins doesnt really have too much vanilla gameplay that can be used against her, while Spirit does have some.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726283#Comment_2726283
Excuse me sir but you didn't give your opinion on what you think is the strongest or do you agree with me that it's dead hard I am confusion?
For survivors, right now, its dead hard that is the strongest. And that's mostly because it gives distance AND I-frames. If it was just distance, it's too short in most circumstances, but still decent. If it's just the i-frames, its also still quite a decent perk.
My personal suggestion is to split up the perk in 2, both exhaustion perks, both only usable while injured. So you'd have 1 dash that's rewarding players who are in that sweet spot where they can reach a window or pallet if they DH in time, but too late or too early and they are downed(might sound similar to the current scenario, but if you lunge as a killer, you can basically down a survivor mid-DH in a pallet rather than missing due to i-frames, making the timeframe to succesfully use DH much smaller and killers like Slinger and Huntress can still hit you). Where the other one is just a 2-3 second i-frame, where you can basically do what Clairvoyance did, but just for 2-3 seconds while also being immune to damage for that short period(ofcourse giving a visual indication, like a somewhat white glow that Freddy also gets from survivors in the dreamworld).
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Also, to be fair, if you count a 3-4k as a win and are willing to spend 60 minutes achieving that, but dont have fun while doing it, why are you still aiming for the 3-4k? You're clearly in a position with too high MMR, and you're just climbing the MMR, having less and less fun, taking longer and longer. If you want fun, you cant play competitively. If you want to play competitively, you cant have fun.
This game isnt a competitively designed game, there is no competitive mode. This is exaclty why *in general* competitive games are super boring, and the most fun games arent competitive. There are exceptions ofcourse, and those are often the games that some players yearn for, but in general, this isnt the case.
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@iThe1One said:
First some context to this whole thing.
Got the game free on Epic, played with a friend who had like ~200 hours before that, I'm a fast learner, I got to Iridescent 2 and him to Iridescent 4, I have meh perks as I'm stuck with the starter survivors so games are usually pretty close.
I also sometimes play as a killer when he's not online. And now here's my issue. For a while killer was fun, I was maining Huntress, chases could take anywhere from 15-30 seconds, the pacing was nice, I'd win some games, I'd lose some, I bought Doctor because fighting vs him felt infuriating...but in a good way, like he was meant to be, constantly making you panic, didn't feel overpowered nor weak.
But then I got to silver rank with killer and game is constantly putting me vs 4 man Iridescent rank players with 2 flashlights and 2 toolboxes, they use said toolboxes to sabotage hooks the moment I grab someone, they body block, they flashlight save, they do EVERYTHING to make sure I can't get a single hook, If I chase someone they go to the most disgusting place on the map to loop me for 1 minute until their teammates finish 3 gens.
NOW finally to my point. I was sick of playing their nasty games so I now I tunnel someone until they do 2 gens, then patrol the 3 closest remaining gens on the map, forcing them to do the furthest one and 3 gening themselves, and since I play Doctor with Distressing + Calm addon, after I whack someone and if they make a small mistake I might chase for a few seconds, then I go in the center of the gens, with my huge terror radius I use Static Blast and where I see a scream I go and whack that generator with Oppression + Overcharge perk.
This leads to games taking 30-60 minutes until they eventual get greedy with the gens or they make a mistake and I catch them. Haven't lost a single game yet this way despite the matchmaking spazzing out with 15 minute queues to find me 4 man premade squads that are all Iridescent 1 with Unbreakable + Borrowed Time + Dead Hard + random perk.
Am I winning all matches? Yes. Is it fun? HELL NO, but if I can't have fun, neither will those survivors.
And what seems to be the cause of this? Gen finishing speed is too fast and loops are too powerful. Gens need to take longer and loops need to be cut shorter, especially pallets, make pallet drop animation faster (buff for survivors) but cut down the walls around them so the loop is harder (buff for killers), so that way survivors drop pallets and run instead of looping you endlessly around the same broken piece of parkour scenery.
1 week ago I didn't understand why killers were complaining, now I see why. Might go back to survivor because despite killer making more BP, 2x the BP is not worth it when matches take 4x longer.
Genspeeds are fine, you're not supposed to protect all 5 generators. You're just meant to slow them down or prepare for a situation where gens being gone quickly is beneficial(endgame perks like Bloodwarden and No Way Out, you only need 4 hooks to make that combo quite powerful).
Loops being too powerful, really depends on what killer you're playing. Doctor doesnt really have loops that are too powerful. You kinda have to chain loops to outplay a Doctor. Bubba has issues with some windows, but mainly he's fine. Nurse doesnt care about loops. Spirit is fast enough to run around and hit a survivor before they are finished vaulting.
A killer seed to reduce loops that are too powerful against a certain killer. Like, there is this coldwind loop that's basically a god pallet, and it has the chance to spawn 3 times against Legion, the killer who has by far the most issues with that loop, the most disgusting part about those loops? Well, remember how walls were raised in Coldwind Farm so stretched res users couldnt abuse it? Well, they added 4 super strong tiles where every survivor can do that now. If the killers were anti-loop, this would be somewhat fine, as the killers need to listen to the footsteps to use their anti-looping power. Against killers that have no anti-loop, this is basically an impossible task and survivors can loop that 1 loop for ages before they even need to drop the pallet, at which point, the killer is forced to break it and they can loop it again for ages before they get a hit.
Problem is, you cant really add in a pallet block the same way a window block exists. As you can get rid of, and brute force pallets. However, there needs to be a system at play that prevents too powerful loops from spawning in against killers that literally do not have an ability that forces survivors to drop it early.
Personally, I would love to see a high-risk, high-reward kind of area, where strong loops can only be accessed while healthy(hooks, totems and gens and chests cant spawn here for obvious reasons), as entering the area it loses you a healthstate, makes you broken for as long as you are in there and makes you exhausted. Meaning if you were to enter it while injured, you'd get downed. This area would effectively have the strongest pallets in the map, as they are resources that need to be quickly used. But leaving it succesfully reduces the exhaustion by the amount of time you have spend in that area(meaning if you're already exhausted, you could go to that area to recover exhaustion faster at the cost of a healthstate and indicating the killer exactly where you are and what you are doing). It wouldnt even be too hard to add to the tutorial.
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The game doesnt need an additional prestige, nor additional rewards for characters. This game needs a (small) buff to it's prestige in the first place. Prestiging needs to be worth it if it's gonna be a massive time sink.
People often claim that Prestiging is meant losing all your progress etc and most games dont really offer anything in return, yeah, sure, but those Prestiges often require only 24 hours-ish per prestige level. DBD maybe takes 10-ish hours for the prestige levels, but then take 100+ hours to get every perk available on 1 single character. It's not worth resetting your progress by any means when it comes to DBD.
So either: prestiging keeps your current perks(dont worry, reaching level 50 3 times only gives you about 40% of all the available perks).
OR: Prestiging unlocks the tier representative of the prestige of all the perks you already unlocked(aka, p1 gives you all perks in t1, p2 gives all in t2, p3 gives all in t3).
OR: Prestiging significantly rewards you by customizing the way your bloodweb forms, for example, giving your addons a rating of how much you like them, and the rating affecting their chances to appear in the bloodweb(to an extend, for example, you have 3 pinks that can appear in the bloodweb, if 1 is guarantueed to spawn in per web, instead of 33%/33%/33%, you'd be able to tweak it to 50%/40%/10%). Meaning you have a more consistent inventory. You can ofcourse add a cap on how much you can increase or decrease it. But it's better than having 900 unused grey addons that you never want to use and "only" have 10 grey addons of something else because you use it almost every single match. Where this would be more in the sense that you have 500 addons of the one you use every single match, and only 100-ish of the thing you never use.
OR: automate the bloodwebs a bit by giving preferential things and be able to instabuy them(like, instabuy the shortest route to t1 perks, instabuy the shortest route to addon X, instabuy the shortest route to BPS or Survivor Pudding) with the entity consuming whatever needs to be consumed to progress, even interrupting an autobuy if it happens to go there.
All things, that are going to make prestiging it overall worth it, because it would increase the quality of life. It would still take a significant amount of time, but in all cases, the process speeds up so much, without necessarily spending less BP. (I could earn more BP if leveling up didnt take so long, I've measured, depending on how important some addons or perks were, I spend between 10-20% of my time just spending BP and leveling up my characters, since I have to already switch between characters, and if I am leveling a killer I dont want to play, I cant ready up either, which makes 10-20% way too long.)