Adjustments I would like Decisive Strike to receive
Hi guys, I've always had some issues with the functionality of DS, but like before I had 60 seconds to do what II wanted to, I thought it was fair for me to miss skillchecks, but now that the DS was nerfed I think it's kind of pointless to run the risk of making mistakes skillchecks as we cannot progress the game without lose the DS, I always like to remember that I also like to play from Kille (I'm maint Trapper and Doctor) and I think these changes won't affect me playing Killer, keeping that in mind here what i would like to be changed
-The perk can be activated more than once if the survivor misses the skillcheck
- The skillcheck will have a skill zone 50% higher if the survivor is on the last hook to be sacrificed
- DS skillcheck is not affected by skill or killer perks(like the power of the Doctor for example)
Before some killer player complains, I think it's an invalid complaint. because every killer believes that survs always hit skillcheck (otherwise there would be no reason for them to nerf) , just as I accepted the nerf, nothing it's fairer to accept that it becomes easier to hit skillchecks, even because there are games I play that the ping gets in the way and, in my opinion, when we uses a perk we hope it works, and I don't think these ideas get in the way someone, just fix some problems that she doesn't need anymore.
Comments
I understand that DS is sometimes needed to counter tunneling, but as always, a lot of players nowadays will use it sorta offensive, ie run circles around you and try to bait you into downing them.
I sometimes think that the 1min is pretty long, for it punishes even killers who don't tunnel, if the survivors misuse it, and on the contrary punish ALL survivors, because if I down someone 30s after they were unhooked or something, I will leave them slugged, because they could have DS, wasting everyone's time.
And there was one very frustrating situation, were the last survivor on the map was on the hook, unhooked himself via Deliverance, and I downed him. I had a bad feeling and didn't pick him up, but I had to hook him on the hook closest to the gate, so he crawled out. One meter before he got out I picked him up and got hit by the DS and he escaped, just like that.
I felt quite cheated out of a fairly won kill, but I mean, it sorta was his build, I guess, so I can't complain too much. Still, it felt pretty aweful seeing him crawl away with nothing that I could do about it.
I think the skillcheck is dumb at this point of DS's lifespan. It punishes newer players and also console players - nothing like a random lag spike to invalidate a perk.
DS isn't powerful enough to merit the skill check now that it's not a total get out of jail free card. It's not like BT requires the survivor to hit a skill check to gain Endurance, or Unbreakable to self-pickup.
Tbh nah. You get 1 second chance and if you miss it that's (most of the time) on you.
Just to be clear: you guys are complaining about the skill check you have to land in order to get DS off, right?
I mean, I know that its supposed to be a hard skill check, but isn't this check sorta balancing the perk? It literally gives you a chance to get off the killers shoulder, when you should be surefire sacrificed. That's the purest definition of a second "chance".
Granted, I don't have that perk unlocked for myself, but I have seen plenty of videos of it in use.
DS skillchecks are already not affected by killer perks that influence skillchecks.
Madness doesnt effect DS checks though.
Actually Madness does affect it.
Perks don’t, though.
I think madness affecting it is fine, it affects all skill checks except hook struggle afaik. Whether DS even needs to have a skill check at all anymore is questionable though.
I think like this, the perk is to use, imagine a situation where you go to base and you are saved by someone who doesn't have BT the killer drops you and you miss the DS and it puts you in and the same surv saves you, the killer will take you down because he knows you have no BT effect and even if you have DS he won't activate, so it's a guaranteed kill for the killer
I disagree, the DS skillcheck is too small, it doesn't need to be affected by the madness no, before the nerf I agreed but now it's unfair that it affects a player who isn't speeding up the game and is getting the killer tunnel
I'm not sure, but if you don't trigger DS (you don't touch your key at all to success/miss the skillcheck), you save it, right? I don't use DS very often, but I believe it's the case. Correct me if I'm wrong.
What you're saying I agreed with the old DS, because the surv could make a generator and if the killer took it, it still had DS to use, it was very strong, but now this 1 minute is only valid if the surv isn't doing it nothing or if he is chased, so I think the changes I mentioned are fair
are affected yes, at least by the Doctor's madness
It's not a perk, it's his power. Perks don't affect DS.
I have an idea:
I'm okay with purposely missing the skillcheck to keep it for another pick up.
If I get unhooked from first hook and get tunneled, I might, depending of the situation, not wanna use my DS now and use it when I can't afford another hook. Because I can't always purposely touch a gen or something to disable it if I'm being chased right away.
Sadly when unhooked with DS active, one of the option is to run around the killer and bait a pick up to hit him since it disables if you do gen/heal someone. But giving me the option to keep it if I purposely do not press the skillcheck during skillcheck(not to be confused with pressing it too early/late and therefore deserving to lose it) and just wiggle normally, and keep DS for later? I'm down.
It could also be nice mindgame…
The skillcheck should be bigger. It is like a great skillcheck.
I am good at hitting them but when i play on PS4 it is too inconsistent - sometimes the framerate struggles a bit of little stutter or freezes - and you miss it.
And yes, that mostly hurts newer players.
Maybe make the skillcheck 10% bigger, for newer players.
But as for the rest, no; you miss it, that's it. You don't get to try again later. Are we now asking for check chances built into second chance perks just so Survivors never have to worry about failing ever again?
And nothing should affect the skillcheck? Again; no. Why should Survivor perks override everything the Killer does? I mean, other than Survivor entitlement. Perks already don't affect DS, and powers SHOULD affect DS, because the Killer's power should be, you know, powerful?
The 3 sec was originally planned but was increased because enduring was affected to this time. The reason from the devs was they want same Killer stun duration. But was never changed Back.
The DS doesn't need nerf, it's just you not being a tuneler
how is it a nerf?
The just need to fix blessing totems and not losing DS that's all
It depends on the power of haste.
You only get 2 seconds to actually run (1 seconds is getting off the shoulder).
I think it should be fixed to be more consistent across platforms, but that's it. Other than that, it's a good 2nd chance perk and still fits within the theme and framework of the game. You have the ability to save it already, and honestly it shouldn't feel like a certain thing. DS should be like countering the EMMI, or getting a parry on a Souls Boss. It should be difficult and impactful. In fact I'd be all for doubling the stun length and cutting the bar down to make it harder to hit.
I understand someone crawling out of the gate with DS as being frustrating.
However, because of how rampant camping/tunneling-off-hook-till-dead has become, it's common to have 1 or 2 games out of 5ish where you literally can't play the game without DS.
Fair enough. But I just had a game where one of the last two survivors standing was a Laurie, so I reconned that she 100% had DS. So I hooked her and the other survivor cautiously approached, kinda surrendering and I didnt attack her. Then she flashlighted me and unhooked Laurie :V Moments later everyone was down, that traiter went on the hook, and then we all waited for one full minute till I picked up Laurie, wasting three peoples time. Just a minute, but in this situation it was so pointless.
I really kinda hate how with meta perks you have to play like everyone has them. With DH, everyone gets a few seconds of extra chase, just in case they dash away, and in the cases where I have to tunnel I run after the unhooked person for 12s before downing them. It doesnt help that the survivor meta revolves around 6 or so perks, so you really have to always take meta into account, and I really find this taxing and boring.
There are killer tactics that have no counter to them except for a specific perk.
The first two, literally can make a game unplayable for a survivor. (I'm ignoring Dead Hard and Unbreakable in this discussion). Are the perks really "meta" when you, as a survivor, are forced to run them or end up not being able to play the game.
I mean, what can you do? Make those two perks inherent. Give all survivors some type of toned down version so they don't feel as if those 2 perks (DS and BT) are absolutely necessary. Add more perks that can counter Tunneling-off-hook and Camping. I don't know what the answer is.
But for game health, every tactic should have a counter tactic. And tactics that don't require perks should have counters that also shouldn't require perks.
I think this is the essence of meta, ie abilities, powers or, in this case, perks that you absolutely have to take into account. And yeah, it is a kind of arms race, and as always with arms races there is hardly ever a clearcut winner, but a lot of losers. In this case every survivor that gets slugged for a minute, but didnt run DS is pretty double punished, but what should ya gonna do?
The oft-maligned survivors playbook is a sort of gentlemen agreement, but hardly ever someone adheres to it, and thas goes both sides. I play by a lot of the survivors rules, ie leaving a hook, unless I got no kill yet and 3 gens just flew by like nothing (I call it "playing like I got Devour Hope equipped), never tunnel the unhooked person (unless, again, I am severely pressured) and generally roam around after hooks and drive persky survivors off gens. So with this playstyle I don't eat a lot of DS, its normally just the toxic players that go out of their way to annoy me and that I might want to tunnel actually out of the game that have DS equipped. Similar with BT, I normally don't encounter it because I chases some poor, unhooked sod, but because the unhooked person uses it aggressively to bodyblock and mar my progress. I think that unsave "in your face or behind your back" unhooks should be risky, but BT somewhat unfairly takes that risk away.
That being said, the few times I have dabbled with survivor play myself I felt how aweful true tunneling off the hook is and how it can sour your mood. At the low MMR survivor that I qualify for nearly now one runs BT and it really feels misserably. I wouldn't mind if the main ability of BT was base kit, but you couldn't bodyblock with it, literally letting hits go through you and connect with the other survivor. Maybe BT could then give the body blocking ability back, but this one has a 60/50/40s timer, maybe even on exhaustion, so that you cant abuse it to no end?
I don't know, a lot of the problems stem from tryhard, no-quarter-given and championship-endgame BM in otherwise casual matches. If everyone would step down a bit, we could all have nicer quality matches. But this is easier said then done.
Since DS is very strong during the EGC i would disable it once the EGC starts, but make it available 2 times. So the killer has no free tunnel after he already tunneled you once.
Or a watered down Decisive Strike that is built into the survivor kit, but it stops working at EGC. Then you could bring the DS perk and have 2 Decisive Strikes.
It would open up a perk slot, but it can be abused pretty hard.
If a survivor can use current DS offensively and actually hinder you, that's them being a lot more skillful than you.
If they bait you into downing them, they are wasting time. If they get downed, they waste time of a teammate too.
DS is literally just a "save your own ass for 60 seconds" perk. If used in any other way, you wasted time. 50 seconds without doing gens just for a 5 second stun? wasted time.
And yeah, EGC DS is pretty much the only time DS is unfair, but the same can be said for NOED spawning next to a hook and you hooking a survivor next to NOED. Both are a guaranteed escape/kill and both need a fix for that.
You are right on nearly everything you said, but I am also talking about the meta implications of DS. A few days ago I had a match on the game map, were the last two survivors were a Laurie and a Yui. I had hooked the Laurie and actually wanted to let the Yui go, so I cornered her and she did the surrender t-bag and I thought I had communicated to her that she was free to go. But then she blinded me and unhooked Laurie. Seconds later both were on the floor, Yui went on the hook, and then the three of us waited one full minuten until I could be sure that it was save to pick up and hook Laurie. I mean its just a minute, but three people wasted it for no gain at all. And this happens a lot with DS, or DS prevention measures, ie a lot of innocent people get slugged for a minuten, because they could be running DS. And there is probably no real solution to this, but I find it quite frustrating.
But yeah, you are right, if I get hit by a DS that protected an unhooking from 50s ago, thats a gain for me. Still, one minute is still pretty long and eating such an "old" DS feels undeserved? I mean I didnt tunnel at all, that player just desperately tried to get value out of DS.
I mean, you could have picked Laurie up and continue the chase and make it a lot shorter.
"Still, one minute is still pretty long and eating such an "old" DS feels undeserved? I mean I didnt tunnel at all, that player just desperately tried to get value out of DS."
It's just as valuable as baiting someone into a Head-On stun, or even a DS+Head-On combo. It's somewhat frustrating, but having a gen at 99% only for a teammate to miss a skillcheck and the killer being able to Pop the gen. Or for Tinkerer to go of 1 million times on the same gen because it keeps slightly going under 70%(I personally believe the gen needs to regress below 50% before it can retrigger at 70%), NOED spawning next to a hook.
All frustrating moments that dont really feel deserved. But they kinda happen by design. You cant have survivors hog all the fun, nor can you have killers hog all the fun. And sometimes, something fun comes at the cost of frustration of the opposite side. I had a Wraith today, called us tryhards, he chased me for 7 minutes without being able to hit me(he was trying to mindgame so hard, I stood still for 30 seconds and he was still running around the same loop before he finally saw me) and there were quite some hilarious moments from our perspective that, from his perspective must have been super frustrating. We were mismatched due to an oversight in the MMR matchmaking(if a player, any player, leaves the lobby, the lobby will fill with the player who has the longest queue time instead, even if their MMR is twice as low as yours).
Honestly, I dont see DS getting changed further. There is a slight clause around the EGC(deactivate DS if the EGC starts through exitgates, keep DS activated if EGC starts due to the hatch), but other than that, it's fine. I honestly feel like Guardian/Babysitter could even be buffed further by matching the time of the sprint with BT(making them roughly equals and a very good anti-tunnel perk), after which, perks like DH dont need to be as powerful. And after that, match perk tiers up with mapsize. Where something like exhaustion perks are 60 seconds cooldown on small maps and 40 seconds cooldown on big maps, and suddenly, you've made the game a lot less frustrating.
"my opinion, when we uses a perk we hope it works", that's what you said.
so my devour hope has to kill at least 2 survs before it gets cleaned because i am using it and it has to work.
I don't mean to be rude, but if you get your skill check wrong that's your problem, I can count on my fingers how many people I've played against and missed the DS, that's why I've been playing for 1 year and a half, maybe 2 years, and very few people miss the DS
There has to be a balance. If tunneling-off-hook-till-dead is literally preventing survivors from playing the game, then a watered-down Decisive Strike that doesn't work during EGC, would be a good solution. I'm sure it's not without flaws and there might be times that it can be abused, although I don't know how. However, it would switch out a major game issue with a minor one.
Right now, survivors feel like the have to run DS and BT just so they can play the game. If survivors could get those 2 perks baked it and at the same time, slow down gens (because killers feel like they have to run ruin), then maybe the game could be more fun for both sides.
yes, this is one of the biggest flaws that DBD has, there are perks like DS, BT, unbreakeble that are almost of essential use and not just a reinforcement in the game, so much so that when there was no obsession in the game, the killers took the opportunity to tunnel, the developers solved this by putting an obsession in every game, in fact they should have created a system that prevents the tunnel from being overused, even without the need for a DS or BT