JoaoVanBlizzard
JoaoVanBlizzard
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I don't think there's a problem with someone wanting to tunnel in the game, the killer has to play with all the resources he has available, it's even funny that there are killers who say the game is stronger for surv but don't want to tunnel, it's in the game, use it
What I don't like is when killer complains when devs create anti tunnel features, but this helps killers to tunnel whenever they want, but they need to accept the consequences of doing this
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699392#Comment_3699392
That's the point, it has:
you can hear them, you can see them. They have stealth as their main-point of power, but they aren't invisible and impossible to notice. Their counterplay requires you to be very attentive, but in my opinion you should be always attentive. So it's the most basic counterplay you could have.
You can tell me what you want, but old spinechill should never come back, it's just destroying them completely without any way to fix it besides running backwards constantly. Running backwards constantly isn't something you should be expect of someone just so he can even play his power.
Well... I'm not going to change my opinion, because I would be a hypocrite if I did that, you have a point, and I understand your logic in a way, it's the same thing if someone makes a post giving ideas for the killer to come back interrupting the rescue on the hook with a grab, that was almost the same thing as giving the killer a free exposure and only organized swf could safely take a surv with the killer in front of him, but in that case the killer can use "save the best for last" which has multiple uses, but I'm not going to discuss it any further because I know you're going to give a lot of explanations about this perk to convince me that it's not that strong, but I appreciate your feedback, I'm thinking about doing it in the future something about the"call of brine", there are some things that could make this perk more useful
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698492#Comment_3698492
Some people like the playstyle of being stealthy. As you can see on skullmerchant, stealth is a ability most people hate killers to have as an bonus on top. Besides that ghostface is in the films pretty bad in chasing too, so they are lore-accurate at that point, He's just stealthy. (That's a point I only add because there are some people that play him because of his character).
You can say it's rude if you want, it's not changing the fact for me that you shouldn't get a hard-counter against stealth-killers. They have counterplay on their own and just because one group can ignore it and destroy the balance with it, it shouldn't mean we all should be able to do this. They have it rough enough, they don't need to be even weaker.
And I never said I wasn't selfish, I camp and tunnel too. Is it nice? Nope probably not, but I won't handycap myself for people I don't know and probably won't thank me.
So your token-idea makes their early-game even harder, even if that's the phase that's most relevant for a match (at least a big amount of times)
about camping and tunnel, I have an opposite opinion, I'm the type that thinks that the killer has to play with everything that can be legal or not, that's why I still maintain my opinion about spine chill, and any other perk that prevents the killer can be found easily, as you said, even if the killer depends on stealth, all killers can camp and tunnel, I don't mind that, I hate killers who play nice, but I think the game has to have resources to deal with these killers, and not players create rules to balance the game
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697781#Comment_3697781
Not having counterplay and being hard-countered by a single perk is a difference. Stealth-killers have enough build-in counterplay like soundcues and specific things you could see (mostly the straps by ghostface). If you're attentive in any way they shouldn't surprise you too much, they aren't really strong.
And yes you're right they hard-countered by swfs, and that's not a reason to give solo-queue a hard-counter too. That's more a reason to buff them lol.
To the buff/rework-ideas:
Well it's kind of useless to only know that he's watching you:
Instincts are pretty easy to know because they are just in specific cases.
Screams are even easier.
And for aura you could use distortion and you even hide your aura.
The idea with tokens is okayish, but depents on the requirement to activate in the end
And lastly:
I don't have a problem with distortion or lucky break, both of them are okay as they are now. People crying about that 2 perks are just as funny as people complaining about lightborn lol xD
In my opinion, no killer in the game should depend on stealth for their main power, it should be an extra, stealth killers should have a power that is useful in chasing, Ghostface for example, if he can't take advantage of the exposure in time, he becomes a M1 killer.
I thought it was kind of rude that you said that "just because swf has solo resources they don't need to have" it passes
the impression that you want to use soloQ to win your matches, a bit selfish, you know.The idea of the token would help at the beginning of the game and I doubt that we would see 4 survs using the perk in every game.
The "lightborn" is like unbreakable, we
you only miss it when you need it, hehehe, -
@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696500#Comment_3696500
The idea with the revealing through auras weren't bad. But it would be kinda like a bad object of obsession i think (sorry I don't know what it does at the moment, but I think it shows the killers aura if he see yours), so it wouldn't be very nessasary to have it a second time xD
more or less, object of obsession only works if the killer is not undetectable, and only with aura readings, as my idea involves killer instinct and screams too, of course it has the disadvantage of not being able to see the killer, just knowing that he is watching you
I honestly think you exaggerate this logic about stealth killers not having counter play while swf are a spine chill base kit, even on the day I'm writing this, I watched a group of people playing winstreak and they said where the killer was going and if he it was activating power, spine chill is more of a perk for soloQ and not for swf, they only used it because of the boost
The last idea I thought of was that the spine chill would be exactly as it was before the nerf, but it would have a usage limit: for example, you have 15 tokens and every time the killer looks at you, you lose a token every second, If the tokens run out, the perk deactivates, it could be activated in some specific way, like when this surv is hooked for example
The same analogy of perks like "distortion" and "lucky break" I remember that these two perks had several complaints from main killers, but everyone complains about buffed perks on opposite sides, when I give ideas to improve killer perks the same thing happens , blood echo for example, I think it needed a buff, like activating when a generator is completed for the perk to be useful during a chase, do you understand?
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688373#Comment_3688373
Undetectable was added so stealth killers are actually stealthy even against stuff like Object. A perk that can reveal undetectable killers through walls very far away is silly.
i desagree
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@Felgoose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688368#Comment_3688368
I absolutely loved not looking at a gen as i approached it and catching survs unaware because they were watching for spine chill rather than me.
but people used spine chill not only to know the presence of the killer, but it gave speed in generators and in vaults, if the perk only notices the presence of the killer but not the speed, some people won't want to use it because the player prefers to use it chase perks
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696099#Comment_3696099
Helping solo-queue and making an branch of killers useless is something else:
they have to do something to help maybe basekit-kindred or bond, but they shouldn't give perks that counter an entire branch of killers.
In fact, I wanted spine chill back more for the suspense factor that the perk gave, it activated and I didn't know if the killer was near or far, or where he was coming from, and when I tried to escape I would come face to face with him. ,
but I understand your concern and certainly many main killers would tell me that they would like the old "mement mori" to return, which killed with just one hook, only increasing its rarity, as a girlfriend of mine who promoted tournaments once said, I would say that even if only like this to have mori once a year there are unlucky survs who can face more than one killer with mori in a single day, there will always be criticisms of anything that can come back into the game
Maybe, if the one-hook mori would only work nowadays if the killer couldn't use perks or add ons, since survs have BT base kits, but it would still be strong, I just gave an example, so I'll respect your opinion against the SC, I even have other ideas that I mentioned in the post, you just have to see if you want and say what you think ^^
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695993#Comment_3695993
No I won’t disagree with every idea of yours, just ones that unnecessarily hurt stealth killers.
Your idea about being alerted when your aura is shown is great.
I actually posted this idea in the past, but it's a shame the devs didn't pay attention to it, I actually preferred this idea to the one I did in this post
I liked the old spine chill because of the suspense factor it gave, like it would light up and I didn't know where the killer was coming from, sometimes I would come face to face with him and he would hit me in the same way, but I understood what you meant, but I wanted her for that factor and not for her strength
Another perk that I had an idea to make a little better was the "call of brine", but I'm still thinking about how it could be...
One idea I thought of is that during the time that the perk is active in the gen, the speed of repairing the gen becomes slower, not much, but it would be an incentive to use it, I don't know if how much
the killers still use it, but I see it very little -
@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695996#Comment_3695996
Well I can't say that I like to talk to people like you very much, so maybe it's for the better. Was a nice discussion, I wish you a great day! :P
The translator translated it wrong, I meant that I'm not playing the game, because it's difficult to play soloQ, anyway, I understand your point, thanks for the feedback, good play to you
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696043#Comment_3696043
You do know Object has a drawback, right? When it activates, the killer sees you.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696030#Comment_3696030
Once per 60 seconds would be pretty much nothing. 30 seconds is already kinda long.
but the obsession would continue to see the killer's aura every 30 seconds, only those who are not obsessed will see the killer every 60 seconds, but it's better than nothing, don't you think?
and even so, there will be a lot of main killers complaining about this change, it is difficult to give an idea in DBD because there are two opposing sides, and no matter how much you explain the idea they will always think that things will be broken or OP, and many times In practice, almost no one will use
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In fact, I prefer not to be obsessed just to be able to see the killer when the killer sees my aura, sometimes I end up dying because this perk reveals me at times when I didn't want to
One change I would like this perk to have would be:
-The obsession would not have its aura revealed to the killer if he had stealth (note: only through this perk, if the killer has an aura revealer he will see it anyway)Now, if we were to use your idea, what we could do would be:
survivors who are not the obsession will be able to see auras every 60 seconds, the idea is that the obsession has a difference even
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I used to play survivor (I haven't played for 2 months), but I was still against this nerf in the "mangled" state, the problem was the "slop Butcher" which gave two very strong effects just by hitting a surv, I would prefer them to be nerfed the "slop butcher" removing his hemorrhagic effect (since the perk was good even without this effect being buffed) and buffing "Bloody echo" which no one uses because it is too situational,
or simply buff the "gift of pain" so that its "mangled" is infinite, as is the case with some exposures where their effects need to be removed by survs and not by time -
@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695672#Comment_3695672
I'm sorry but still no: You want this perk to avoid the killer, means you will leave as soon as your perk aktivates or closely after, so as long as the lowered actionspeed isn't 10 or more percent you basically won't feel it. So it's not even enough downside to be felt in the slightest against the advantages. That's not even comparable btw because you have to go through the fatigue every blink-chain, besides that it's 2 or 3 seconds.
And just because they are rare it doesn't mean you should have a perk to hardcounter them, that's a logic without any sense.
Ok I understand, because of you I still don't play the game, right
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@Seraphor said:
At this point, I'd rather see Spine Chill reworked into a light anti-aura perk.
Activates for 5 seconds each time your aura is revealed. Has a 15 second cooldown.
This tells you the killer can see you, not necessarily that the killer does see you, is looking at you, or that they're close.
This doesn't then exclusively hard-counter just stealth killers, it's useful but not OP against many killers who may be using aura/undetectable perks, of which we have a lot more these days. It would be like a lighter, generic Distortion.
In the past I gave a similar idea, but it didn't necessarily hide the aura, but whenever the killer looked at you through aura reading, killer instinct or when you screamed, the spine chill would warn you
In the past I used "spine chill" to find out if the killer had a "barbecue"
& chilli " like if he looked at me there was a good chance he had the perk and was coming towards me -
@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695317#Comment_3695317
I think you are reading too much into what I said. I simply said I disagree with this buff idea.
There is nothing more to it. I don't think it would be the end of the world, disagreeing with you doesn't make me a 'stressed and conscious person', I simply disagree with your suggestion and gave you a reason why. I said to agree to disagree because we were just repeating the same points and it was clear we wouldn't agree.
Don't read too much into what I said, I simply just disagree with this idea. I think Spine Chill needs a buff but this isn't the way to go in my opinion.
Yes, we have different opinions, perhaps because we play on different sides, I have already thought of other ideas to improve the perk in a less aggressive way towards stealth killers, but it seems that any idea I have will disagree with you.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695668#Comment_3695668
You're wrong. We also can back this up by knowing that the devs specifically do not want perks to hard counter certain killers, as Spine Chill does with stealth killers. That is part of their balance philosophy. The fact that it hard countered stealth killers goes against their philosophy. While people did combine it with Resilience for vault builds, that wasn't the core problem.
It could be that I'm actually mistaken (after all, I'm not the owner of the truth), but I have my reasons to believe that this isn't a problem, but anyway, I had said that I had another idea, which would be this one:
Spine chill:
-Buff: the perk activates whenever the killer looks directly at you or when he looks at you through aura reading, killer instinct or when you scream revealing your areaexplaining the idea: The spine chill warns you whenever the killer sees that you are there, the old "spine chill" sometimes warned the surv even without the killer knowing of his presence, with this change, the spine chill will only warn you when the killer is watching the surv
I thought this idea would make the perk still bad, at least it would give information for the survivor to be more attentive when the killer sees you through readings, not affecting killer stealth as much, what do you think of this idea?
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@KatsuhxP said:
So you want it to be hardcounter against stealthkillers again (the mainpoint why they nerfed it). I'm sorry but the slower actionspeed is no disadvantage in any form, you can hardcounter an entire branch of killers and there's basically never a reason you should stay if the killer directly looks at you for long enough that this hurts xDDD
Exactly, I really want to, but you're wrong that the speed reduction doesn't make a difference, it really doesn't for you because you're a main killer, but it's the same thing as me saying that Nurse's fatigue isn't a big deal, but whoever plays with her you know how boring this is. I think it works, that's why I already said, I wanted to see it in a PTB, but I don't think veterans would use it, there are better perks for them
Another detail is that no one plays with stealth killers anyway, but that's not the fault of the perk, they need buffs or new powers
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695301#Comment_3695301
You don’t need perks to gen rush at all, so whether they run this or not has nothing to do with that.
The core problem with old Spine Chill wasn’t the action speed increase. The core problem was how it hard countered stealth killers. Your change brings back the original problem for its removal in the first place.
If you have another idea to buff it I’m open to that, but I don’t think this is the right change.
You're wrong, anti stealth was never a problem with spine chill, anyone who is experienced can play without it, the problem with spine chill was precisely the fact that it was good in every game, if there wasn't a stealth killer they would take advantage of it with the speed system, players did not use spine chill for anti-stealth, but rather for the fastest window valt combining with resilience
Without the boost bonus, few people will use spine chill, those who use it are those who don't know how to loop, there are many better perks nowadays, and no, I'm not going to create another idea, I've already had other ideas, but I think This already solves the problem that the perk had, which was that there were few reasons not to use it
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@Grimmm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688319#Comment_3688319
The Adreneline nerf has nothing to do with defending generators, you need to learn how to read dude, the change had nothing to do with that, the thing they nerfed was it not activating after being unhooked, so you cant get a adren proc 3 mins after everyone else got it, I see nothing wrong with that. but sure lets go with me not knowing how to play because a survivor is getting a full heal + spring burst right off unhook.
If I need to learn to read, you need to learn to stop being rude, okay, the adrenaline nerf won't end it, although I don't like the idea of the nerf not activating when it's on the hook because that will hurt solo playersQ, ,SWF will notify the right time to finish the last generator to activate the adrenaline, the solo player will be put on the hook and no one knows if he has adrenaline and they will finish the last generator, that's why I'm against this part of the nerf, about the 3 seconds I don't argue, it was a change that needed to be made, and I think that Hope would also need to have some nerf since it is a perk that remained active in the end game
About the "Ultimate Weapon" I didn't like the PTB nerf, now it forces the surv to use distortion and it's strong on the Nurses, which in my opinion is the killer that least needs new resources
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688802#Comment_3688802
I’m just going to say agree to disagree and not bother anymore. We are just going in circles and I’m tired of discussing this.
the way you say it, it seems like my idea will make the perk end the world, whereas the devs do much worse things, just test the idea on a PTB, OP, remove the idea, simple as that, PTB has to be used for testing, but there are people who take it too seriously, look at the people complaining about the Twins, of course they need to complain, but they certainly won't leave all the changes as definitive
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@Dream_Whisper said:
I hear alot of discussion regarding the problem with Spine Chill, is either
It punished stealth killers and makes them a worthless Stealth Killer. Or it punished any average killers for engaging in regular chases, and the spine chill users abuses the 6% extra action speed to give them a slight edge and a chance to fast vault the window or pallet faster then the killer can secure a hit.
I think stealth killers being punished isn't really a problem, as experienced killers that know how to counter this perk can simple look the opposite direction while moving towards the survivor’s direction; to fool it. It is bit sad that killers whom are supposed to be undetectable can still be somewhat revealed with lines of sight blockers and make the Survivor user have a plan to hide or get extra distance. More often then not, experienced survivors relie on the perks 2nd effect, which is the increase actions speeds to make their chase much better. That part is more broken and bit unfair for killers whom could have hit the vaulting survivor in time, but miss it due to a fraction of a second time difference speed.
As for what I would have to done to rework the perk, I would bring back one aspect and put Rework the other aspect to Spine Chill's cousin, Premonition.
Spine Chill shouldn't reveal any killers looking in their direction unless a clear line of sight is maded. And can have the increase actions speeds (like it used to)
Premonition could be reworked to be more like old spine Chill in revealing any killers under the undetectable status effect in looking in their direction, with and without line of sight cover. The perk can also reveal the killer aura, if they are within 4/6/8 meters of their location, while undetectable is in affect. Then it goes on a 30 second cooldown, before the aura reading can be trigger again.
Spine Chill would be great for any Killers, especially those with vault speed perks. And Premonition would directly counter killers with stealth based builds especially when sneaking up for ambush.
I don't think that drastic changes need to be made, in fact I'm afraid of the developers' decisions, but I realize that it's the fault of the community that exaggerates in crying, when they say they're going to nerf something, they say they're going to kill it, when they buff they say it's going to stay OP, that's why I wanted to see my idea tested in PTB, but there are people who even PTB are starting to complain, since nothing is definitive there.
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@Blueberry said:
As others have already pointed out, yes Spine Chill needs a buff, but whatever that may be it can't work on stealth killers. Firstly because the devs have already said they don't want perks directly countering killers powers. Secondly because the stealth killers in the game are already extremely weak. They need all the help they can get.
Yes, I'm aware of this, I don't do things without thinking, even I already knew the opposition that some players would have, that's why I added the nerf to reduce the speed of carrying out actions as a counter to the use of the perk, I still believe that my idea won't be a problem for stealth killers because those who will use these perks are survs who don't know how to face these kills, those who know how to play well won't even use the perk because gen rush will be compromised with its use
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@Blueberry said:
- Survivor gets rescued off a hook.
- Killer decides to go for the unhooker since he doesn't want to tunnel.
- The unhooked person then uses OTR or the base Endurance mechanic to body block 1 hit for them.
Killer then has 2 options. Continue chasing the unhooker or now target the unhooked who abused the "anti tunnel" mechanic to body block.
If he chooses to now target the unhooked that body blocked he has to get a 2nd hit on them. Then he eats a DS (now getting buffed) to the face. To then have to chase him for a 3rd hit, which now eats him a DH. To now chase him again for a 4th hit for the actual down.
Note if we choose to instead continue going after the unhooker, the unhooked person still body blocks all these attempts to force this above interaction regardless. So we have the same result.
Now we may say, let's ignore all this by just forgetting them both and go just randomly check the remaining gens to look for someone else. Except that unhooked is still following you and doing the same thing.
Hey though, just down him and leave him there! Except you still wasted 2 hits just to get him there in the first place from him body blocking you and he has Unbreakable for that not to matter.
I am not saying we shouldn't have anti tunnel mechanics, I like those. I'd even improve them. My point here is simply that would y'all agree that we could/should design the anti tunnel mechanics in a way that also prevents them from being abusable for their unintended purpose? I intentionally try not to tunnel, like going out of my way, and I am still getting hit with consecutive OTR, DS, just the base kit Endurance, as they are very regularly forced in my face. Maybe this is rarer at lower mmr's, but this is extremely regular in my games.
Thoughts?
I'm going to say what I think, but please stay calm and understand all the points of my idea and try to see if it makes sense to you or not (after all, I'm not the owner of the truth)
I'm the type who thinks like this: all players, whether survs or killers, have to play with all their strength, if you think you should camp or tunnel the same surv, do it, a game where everyone says that killers they are the weakest side not being able to use resources that give them a chance to win, I am completely against players needing to fix the game's problems
Now comes the part that may divide opinions, I think the game really helps some killers to tunnel the survs, like: the yellow hook, and immediate hud update and the alert when a surv is saved, these are things that I think should have a delay, like when a surv was saved it would take 5 seconds before the killer received the alert,
to give the survs the chance to escape if the killer is far away, I know that there are killers like the nurse, the dredger, among others who, when they hear the alert, return to the hook while patrolling, if there was no immediate alert, the killer could decide to go back to see if there is a surv healing another one, or stay near the hook waiting for someone to save and leave the gens without patrolling
without the immediate alert, the killer needs to decide between taking care of the genes or staying on the hook waiting for someone to try to save, in the current way, killers like nurse and blight, puts pressure on the match and when he receives the rescue alert he quickly returns to tunnel, which is what I think the game is ridiculous, the game has to allow you to play your way and have consequences for your decisions
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@Hex_Ignored said:
I have to stress again just how terrible weaving spiders is. Yes, on paper installing 7 bnps sounds insane until you look at the cost. 120 seconds sitting in the basement doing nothing and becoming permanently broken. This isn't worth it at all.
Wicked at least has some use as an info perk now. Still, the "main effect" is extremely situational but the aura reading part is usable and pushes the perk from bad to niche.
Strength in shadows is meh. It's not offensively bad (unlike weaving spiders) but it's also not really worth using. Running injured across the map to self care in basement is risky and should have a higher reward. It's probably faster to just self care in a safer place anywhere on the map.
Her healing perk may be interesting, but none are worth a perk slot
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688373#Comment_3688373
Killers doesn't use whisper because it is extremely unreliable.
The real situation it works is pretty much only when last survivors standing, you don't know direction or anything for majority of the time, 32m range is ridiculously big to be a good enough recon perk.
This is not even a skill issue because to make it work, you need back and forth from many direction or else you are going wrong way.
The fact it works with hooked survivor is ridiculous too.
And not to mention the information value difference of survivors and killers, especially stealth killers.
stealth killers can't really seen that much neither, so SWF still don't know where they are most of time.
We don't need any hard counter for stealth killers because all of them are less than mediocre.
I disagree, before spine chill was nerfed, killers won, besides, killers lose to survs that loop well and not to stealth survs
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688429#Comment_3688429
Because this user suggested a buff that I disagree with and was simply pointing out why I disagreed with it and what the issue with bringing it back was. I’m not pointing at the problem with Spine Chill, I’m saying that this suggested buff would be a problem.
There is no need to turn this into an us vs them. If someone had suggested bringing back Nurse’s old add ons or the original Eruption I would have said the same thing.
Don’t read too much into it, it’s not that deep.
Your avatar suits you very well, so it means that a perk ends your game play, with most experienced survs ending the chase-based killer, and to show that you don't understand things, the current spine chill works with both Myers and ghostface, as they need to look at the surv to make the perk activate
If you were a less stressed and conscious person, you would realize that my idea is even helping these killers, because with the reduction in actions you would indirectly end up preventing a surv from completing a generator or even opening an exit gate, the spine chill currently helps these survs against these killers, so I created this idea thinking about both sides and prioritizing those who really need it
I'm going to use the "distortion" perk as an example, it's a perk that cancels the aura reading of survs, but not everyone uses it, there are people who think that putting it in the build takes away a perk slot for other things, besides running a risk of falling against a killer who doesn't even use this perk, think about it, do you really think that these changes I mentioned will make more experienced people want to use the perk expecting a stealth killer? I highly doubt it, only beginners would use it, and maybe even
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688368#Comment_3688368
To be fair it was the only counter to stealth killers… and no killer should be uncounterable. Taking SC was a gamble because survivors couldn’t know they’d be facing a stealth killer before entering a trial. It was less impactful against any killer with a terror radius which was why it did other things but hint that a killer was within radius. If it did only that, it would be extremely niche (countering only stealth killers to some degree because it still didn’t pinpoint precise location, just that the killer was nearby).
Yes, in addition, it is a perk, using it will take up space that could have an exhaustion or gen rush perk, it is not a base kit that everyone will be able to use, and there are people who even before the SC were nerfed I didn't like using it, that's why I think my idea might be worth a test at least
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@BlightedDolphin said:
The problem with this is that it still hard counters stealth killers, which was the issue with it in the first place.
The perk isn't in a very good spot right now but it shouldn't go back to countering stealth. It needs a new effect at this point because it's current one is either going to be useless like it is now or too good against stealth.
I already knew that someone would come with this conversation and I already left a prepared response for it:
It's like the "Whisper" perk for killers, it's a very good perk for finding survivors, but no one uses it because the perk doesn't give any other extra benefits, I don't see any problem with there being a perk that reveals stealth killers, even because in swf people talk about where he's going, if that were the case, they should remove the surv's ability to see the aura of other survs while they're on the hook, because swf tell others which surv the killer is going to, spine chill is a perk for solo player , swf you don't need to use it -
@Ayodam said:
Well, it certainly needs something. Frankly, I think making it work only when the killer has immediate line of sight (so you can see the killer too) was super strange. I think I only really saw newbie survivors using it before, but I don’t see anyone using it now. Once they removed the vault speed bonus it became pretty solid mediocre newbie perk. Now, like so many other survivor perks, it’s just bad. Premonition does its job better (Alert is better than both), and no one would argue that to be a good perk.
true, I'm currently using "premonition" myself, but I liked "spine chill" because of the suspense factor it gave, like: everything is silent and the perk is active, I was like "oh my goodness, the killer is coming, where is he " with the nerf the perk lost some of that emotion, I think that this atmosphere that the old spine chill gave makes the perk more enjoyable to use
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@Grimmm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532883#Comment_3532883
Its not op in the slighest dude. you can negate it easliy and it shows there general area, if your super far away and are still in that general area and get downed thats a you problem. not a perk problem.
And even? They want to nerf the adrenaline because the killers don't know how to defend generators even with a lot of anti gen perks, then the perk doesn't have to be nerfed, but you have to learn how to play, it's the same thing you're saying
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About "Decisive Strike" I thought it could have these changes:
-the stun lasts 5 seconds, however, killer can reduce the stun time with the "endurance" perk
-The perk would work in the end game
-The perk would not deactivate when performing actions, but it would deactivate when receiving grabs of any type
- The perk does not activate if an injured surv heals completely before being hooked into the match
The idea is to make the perk useful when the killer is just tunneling the surv and not to function as an extra cure as it usually is.
I would like there to be some changes that are not on the list, I'll give you an example:
-Buff on Spine chill: the perk is only valid when the killer sees you, it could alert the surv
when the killer is looking at the surv through aura reading and killer instinct
-Killers couldn't see the hooks'regression bar or the survs' dying state: many killers wait until the last second to
put a surv on the hook, leaving it on the floor and looking at
bar to control this, which generates toxic plays
-Remove unhook cancel from survs:
There are survs that use unhook cancel to trap a hooked surv, preventing others from saving, in addition, by removing the
grab hooks by killers it no longer makes sense for this mechanic to exist
-Option to surrender when in the dying state when there are only two survivors alive: it is very common to see killers who leave one survivor in the dying state and look for the other to get 4 kills, to prevent the fallen survivor from waiting to end a lost match , he could give up the match without being penalized, because a bot will replace him in this situation
-killers shouldn't know that there are bots in the match
-Buff on "Blood echo" perk: could activate when generators were completed, increasing the chance of affecting players injured during a chase
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I still think that Hex are better than "boon totems" (which are useless, although I think their idea is poorly designed), I see a lot of killers using hex, the difference is that generally killers create builds based on Hex, different from the past when they used hex to make games easier
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There could be the option to "surrender" after a while of the game, even when I know that a game is lost, what I want most is to give the victory to kille 9 or the survs) and play another game, I waste a lot of time waiting for a lost game is over and I don't have that time to wait so long
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@skylerbound said:
The hard tunnelling has gotten so bad, at least in my soloQ games. To define it, I mean only going for 1 player at 5 gens remaining. It’s a strategy that works… especially against soloQ, it incentivises itself as a 3v1 greatly stacks the odds in the killers favour.
My suggestion would be simple, a BP penalty that removes all BP occurred while pursuing that singular survivor, dependant on a few things. If the first 3 hooks are the same person, if the gens completed are less than 3. Some could argue players could then 99 gens to punish the killer but that would take coordination that wouldn’t be common enough if I’m honest.
what would be some of your suggestions to disincentive hard tunneling?
Tunneling was worse before the BT base kit, but I'm back because of the map reworks and adjustments made by the devs, nowadays there are less loops and many dead zones, no pallets, I think they should improve perks like DS ( which nowadays is almost useless) giving back the 5 seconds and giving some extra effect such as hiding the marks for a while or speeding up the surv
Another thing is to delay the alert when someone is saved from the hook, every time a surv is saved, the killer hears an alert and the hud updates, it could take about 5 seconds for the killer's hud to update, it doesn't make much sense for the killer have this alert since it has more antistealth features nowadays
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@ShErMaDeRmA said:
Buckle up + For the people is one of the most infuriating perk combos in this game rn. Idk how it's made it this long without changes. "I ran in your face and got an autoheal, so we're both invincible for 10 seconds". How is this fair? If you try to wait that 10, either they make it somewhere safe for free, or you only wait 9.99 seconds. This combo can suck a bag of clown fingers
I also don't like the combo Save the best and rapid brutality, but you don't complain about that, right?
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@kaoraku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609217#Comment_3609217
And you want to encourage them with punishing others? Try to look it from a wider perspective. Like imagine the scenario what I wrote earlier. And no, I don't think that killers try to proove that the system is broken. They just have a power to proxy-camp. If BHVR would like to prevent the killers to be able to go close to the hook they would already did it. But they said many-many-many times, they don't. This mechanics there only for the victim, who otherwise would have nothing to do in the whole game. If a killer outside of that radius, then a teammate can go for the save. Why should survivors unhook themself freely? The whole point is that at least 1 person, or ideally more have to leave gens and come for the save.
and your point of view is like this: the game has 4 survivors, I can't kill any of them and I'm only satisfied if I kill them all, otherwise I lost the game, while for a solo survivor, if he dies the game it ends, and survivors don't always play in teams, and you don't need to kill all 4, if you kill 2 and only have one generator left to complete, the game is already yours, not to mention that if the generators are completed the anti-camp does not work, the game gives the killer more chances than the surv, unless it is a super strong swf the killer will always have a better chance of winning, and you really want to win by trying less, and this has a logical reason:
You imagine that you are playing Pig or clown and are facing the best survs with more than 8k hours, while I watch a lot of soloQ against a spirt or a super strong Alien, you can understand the difference? This is normal, you are against changes for fear of harming the weakest part of the game, even if my intention is against the strongest part of the game, there will always be this opposition, if you know what I mean
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@Crowman said:
The feature isn't meant to counter all camping, just camping where the killer stands right in front of the hook. The system does the job it's intended to and survivors don't need tools for free unhooks.
Maybe it's really difficult to make everything work perfectly in the game, the problem is when you know that the killer is purposely wanting to break the system that was created to encourage them to play the game and not just stand in front of the hook,
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@kaoraku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609202#Comment_3609202
Ehm what? What cheating? What taking advantage and what broken resource?
As I said - it's work as it is intended. No need the fix in it anything (it was bugged by lvl differences, but it is patched out fast). BHR never said, it is antiCAMP. They said camping is part of the game.
Maybe the problem is that you don't know what is facecamping. Since survivors used it for everything now facecamping means that even if the killers look back to the hook from 70 meters it is facecamping. Actually it is more then facecamping, since it has a pretty large area. So I really do not understand what cheating and taking advantage are you talking about.
And no, it is not about my "winrate". It is about that you try to have free unhooks for the nothing.
Sorry, I sent the message to the wrong person, I corrected your answer, look there
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@Astel said:
Come on, it is not Anti-Camp, it is "ANTI-FACE CAMP". Killer roaming around the hook with distances is considered as proxy camping, not face camping.
exactly, but the impression it gives me is that the killers who look at the hook from a distance are trying to prove that anti-face camping doesn't work for them, so we should improve it
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@kaoraku said:
The main problem is that people think this is antiCAMP system. It is antiFACECAMP, to give a chance to people to do something when otherwise there would be nothing. There is no need to improve it, it works surprisingly good.
And I am laughing, because earlier I was memeing with that survivors scream camping even if the killer look their way... And now you actually would like it. Did you considered that if a teammate runs to the hook, and the killer is behind them they looking to that way, so you would get a free unhook for the nothing, when even the killer is not there? How would it be good for the game?
Good question, but if you're looking at the hook it's because you're waiting for that person to be saved so you can tunnel them, so you're camping at a distance,So the idea would be to nerf killers that have projectiles and that use ranged resources to balance things out?
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@moofties said:
I went against a competitive player as Nurse yesterday and she camped every single person to death. All she was doing was blinking through the anti-camp radius to patrol the hook just outside the radius, and when she noticed that each person went to second stage, she would get closer as she knew the timing for the self-unhook meter and it allowed her to actually face camp everyone to death.
Yes, I've seen huntless with an instant down add-on that was outside the anti-camping zone just waiting for someone to approach the hook to knock it down with the axe, looking at the hooked person
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@Foempticol said:
Unhook cancelling 100% needs to be removed, it's only used to grief teammates
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JNP0Y29FWT95/20231110-110012.gif
Yes, currently it is only used for that, before, the unhook cancel was interesting to avoid the killer's grab, but after the nerf there are few reasons to cancel the unhook, there are already perks that unhook faster, so it was a resource that could be removed without problems currently
It would be interesting to make a topic asking people to vote, so the devs can see that we want this change, maybe they will do it as quickly as possible, but I need to know if there are people who support the idea
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@jonifire said:
Would be good if they make more changes where perks can‘t interact with each other. Right we do not need that.
yes, I thought of other more complicated ideas, but I prefer to give an idea that is easier to understand, because the DBD team is intelligent and can come up with better ideas based on this idea, Note: I made a mistake, lithe should be disabled in the build I did, it doesn't work with sprint burst, O.o
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@LordGlint said:
In all fairness, there's very few examples where a perk becomes completely unusable. Thinking about it, its basically only the perks no mither and sprint burst that do this.
There are some add ons that don't match each other, but I only gave an example of perks
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
You think the implementation of the Anti Facecamp and Gen system and the removal of hook grabs is not enough?
Man, the killers are always getting buffs and are never satisfied, it's a rework of maps, improvements in resources in the big update, buffs in killer powers and add ons, and when the survs get something new, the killers are already protesting asking nerfs or thinking that such a feature will kill the game play of killes
Furthermore, you know that the anti-camping and anti-tunnel resources are not 100% effective, killers can nullify these resources, the idea of two survivors in a diyng state being able to heal each other is also not the case, it will only work if the killer wants to leave everyone players on the ground without putting them on the hook
I'm bringing ideas to make the game more fluid and fun for everyone, in the minds of those who play killer I'm buffing the survs, but in fact if there was an option I could speed up the bleeding on the ground and consider it a sacrifice for the killer I would prefer, after all, I lost the match and I want to play a new match, now the killers want us to be stuck in the match without being able to do anything
If it's any consolation, I also don't like the idea of survivors standing at the exit gate waiting for the killer to arrive doing T-Bag. I think the exit gates could have some kind of rework to prevent these things from happening, or an option for the killer to give up without being banned in these specific situations
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yep, the upcoming Patch features nothing for Survivors. First time it happend if I remember correctly that one side really got nothing.
Your ideas are good, in general, small things would be enough. My feedback to your ideas:
Perks:
Flip Flop - sounds like a nice Buff to the Perk itself and it would also make sense, however, it would mean that you HAVE to run Tenacity with it (because you need to recover to make use of Flip Flop). And in general it is not really a fun build to verse (you know, the classical Unbreakable, Flip Flop, Tenacity-Build)
Open Handed - sounds great. Would make the Perk really good. And not too strong, because there is Fogwise, which can also give an early Aura Reveal. But giving a short Aura Reveal to the Survivor as a Bonus to open-handed would make the Perk a lot more viable. But it should be shorter, not 9 seconds like Lethal Pursuer, I think 5 is enough to see who the Killer is, but not where they go.
Spine Chill - against it. You notice a lot of things anyway, e.g. screaming or Killer Instinct. The only new info would be Aura Read, but Distortion exist for this.
Saboteur - 100% yes. I know why they implemented it (so that you have to commit to that one hook), but I always see Survivors who try to heal under the hook being sucked at the Hook to sabotage and it would make the Perk better to use.
Inner Strength - yes, neat little Buff.
General gameplay-mechanics:
Dying-state healing - not sure. I can get your idea and it would make sense for scenarios where the Killer goes for 4 Slugs. However, I would rather see another basekit mechanic which can combat that (like they tried with the Finisher Mori where Survivors could heal themselves to Injured in 45 seconds). But more specific to counter scenarios where the Killer just wants to be toxic. Because otherwise, going down next to each other is a huge mistake done by the Survivors and it should not be easily negated. That being said, on the other hand the Killer can also pick up one of them, there is no need to go for two Slugs at the same time...
Bleed out-Timer visibility - No. Maybe the Killer, but I dont think it would make any difference when it comes to toxicity. But clearly not other Survivors. But probably better to not change anything.
Removal of Unhook canceling - Agreed. Does not serve any purpose anymore, once commited to the action the Survivor should only stop it when they get hit by the Killer.
Thank you very much for the feedback, there were people saying that it is not necessary for there to be adjustments for both sides in PTB, but there are a lot of things that need to be adjusted and PTB is the best place to test this, because they are just tests, if it doesn't work a positive result just doesn't lead to the game
I had ideas to adjust other perks and mechanics, both for survs and killer, but I preferred to present those that would be simpler for the devs to add to the game and that would help with simple information and not win the game like many perks do out there.
I noticed that you had divided opinions on some things, I'll try to explain them better ok:
-Spine Chill - in fact it already had this function before being nerfed, when the killer looked in your direction for a long time he could be seeing you through perks, the problem is that spine chill revealed the killer even without him knowing where the surv was, my idea is for spine chill to alert you if the killer knows where you are.
-Heals another surv in the dying state: I didn't like the idea of the unbreakble base kit because I like the idea of encouraging the use of other perks, if a surv could heal another on the ground, "tenacity" and "soul guard" could be more useful , as well as the knockout perk if the killers wanted to make it difficult for the surv to see each other and heal themselves
-See the bleed meter: there was a case where a ghostface was camping a surv in bleed out and I couldn't heal him, when the meter was one second away from the surv dying he took the surv and made him leave his shoulder to find me , if he couldn't see the meter he would either put it on the hook or let it die on the ground, he wouldn't be holding the match like that
-Even so, it would be cool to see these ideas at PTB, I'm not asking for everything I suggest to be approved, but it would be cool to see how it would work in practice and if something could be used
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@UndeddJester said:
While I don't think it's necessary for both sides to receive updates, it's not an unreasonable point that without survivor changes teh PTB might not get much participation... though I wpuld hope it'd be in Survivor interest to ensure Trickster changes and MFT changes are reasonable.
I like most of the perk suggestions though. Saboteur and Spine Chill are suggestions I've liked before, and the Flip-Flop one is good. Inner Healing is fine, though why not just an aura radius? Open Handed is a very interesting idea, a lot to think about on that one though as that information is very powerful for a SWF...
in a way it's true, but most of the time both sides have some positive news, when Nicolas cage arrived in the game, the devs reworked sadako for the killers to test the game too, it's more for encouragement, on the contrary PTB it becomes an eternal lobby, thanks for liking the ideas, I thought of simple things that would help more solo players, it's a shame that a lot of things end up making pro players even stronger
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@Emeal said:
Survivors don't need compensation for Killer buffs, they already got plenty from playing vs. under tuned tricksters and using MFT.
Enjoy the fun while It lasts.
I agree with you...if you want to play PTB alone, why won't I download it to test if so
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@Zenislev said:
Survivors do not need equal attention buffs. While we're at it, you suggested it before and it's worth mentioning again, slugging isn't toxic, nor is it an exploit, two downed survivors should not be able to pick each other up.
You certainly say that because you're a main killer and suffer toxicity from high-level survs, but you don't know what things are like at lower levels, of course you need these changes, plus it's ptb, if it doesn't work, you can remove it, and another thing: you have to recognize that my idea is much better than the unbreakable base kit that the devs wanted to put in the game last year, I even agree that it didn't need to be added, but being able to heal on the ground is situational, just it works against killers who are too lazy to hook, learn to observe both sides and see that if you are a good killer player this idea won't even affect you, it gives me the impression that you don't like the idea of fixing the game's exploits, and not to nerf the killers, if this results in a nerf, then the devs will buff the killers