Munqaxus
Munqaxus
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733954#Comment_2733954
No it won't 😭
You're acting like any individual from a minority group could just say "X game mechanic is offensive" with no reasoning and get it removed.
How about we test that right now?
I, as a queer person, think The Clown is homophobic.
Is he going to be removed now? /s
The SF cosmetic is being removed for a very specific reason - because of it's resemblance to blackface. That doesn't extent to other cosmetics etc. I'm sure the game will be fine.
You are still wrong on the slippery slope argument.
However, wouldn't Pretty Lady Leatherface be the obvious choice for your example.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733886#Comment_2733886
You provided no reason why A will result in B. You simply claim that the mask getting removed means players will harass using some other cosmetic to get it removed. Hence, fallacy.
I already explained this.
All I can say now is that you are wrong and I am right. Time to move on.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733770#Comment_2733770
The purpose was to see how many totems get cleansed on average.
Make what you want from it.
What is the significance of 2.93 totems being cleansed?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733793#Comment_2733793
Causal connection means the same thing in this context as it does in data analysis. You can't just say a causal connection exists because you personally think it's probable. It's something that has to be proved with evidence.
I'd like to remind you that you were the one who brought up the definition that referenced causal connection - not me.
The definition for "casual connection" is much more rigorous if you conducting data analysis for a research paper compared to using it in debate and I'm pretty sure you know this. Also, I will point out that you selected a blog of a professor who is specifically talking about research papers, for a college level class. This is pretty disingenuous, don't you think. You didn't choose a definition from a dictionary or a source specifically speaking about fallacies and debate.
Here a definition from a dictionary
If there is a causal connection between two things, one thing is responsible for causing the other.
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But again, I'll point you to this college website I pointed out before that is specifically talking about a causal connection in context to slippery slope arguments.
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There are a variety of ways to turn a slippery slope fallacy into a valid (or at least plausible) argument. All you need to do is provide some reason why the adoption of one policy will lead to the adoption of another.
Again quoted from Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate (csun.edu)
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733753#Comment_2733753
"Doesn't it make it pretty obvious that you can get a group of people together and start harassing other people and get noticed."
What? This isn't a causal connection.😭
You can't just establish a causal connection by saying "oh well I think this is a plausible." You're misusing the terminology and I suggest you do some further reading: https://info.umkc.edu/drbanderson/establishing-causality/
You quoted a blog on conducting data analysis to define "causality", the blog doesn't have anything to do with debate and logical fallacies.
That's like saying "Evolutionary Theory" is just a theory (using "theory" as one definition when it means another in this context).
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@Pulsar said:
Hey all, I've been collecting stats for quite some time.
We've never gotten stats as to the average number of totems cleansed in a game (and I haven't seen anyone do it) so I thought I'd try it out. So, I've had roughly 200 games worth of stats and I'm gonna try my best to condense them down into a easily legible format because I took notes by hand.
I recorded whether or not I was in a SWF, how large of a SWF, how many totems were cleansed, how many were boon'd at the end of the match, what Killer we played, whether or not they facecamped, what map we got, whether or not the Killer took us there, whether or not the Killer had NOED, the result of the match (2K, 3K with Hatch ect) and any additional notes I had. Forgive me if there are slight discrepancies, I'm basically copying this from paper.
So, without further ado, let's get into it.
In total, I played 95 Solo Q Games. In those 95 games, a total of 289 Dull (or Hex) Totems were cleansed when the last gen popped. By averaging that (289 totems / 95 games) we get an average of 3.05 totems cleansed in the average Solo Q game.
I did keep track of if any Boon Perks were active when the last gen popped, but surprisingly, it was extremely uncommon to see Boons up when the final gen was completed. I would imagine it is because the effect of Boons (CoH) is so strong that the Killer feels the need to cleanse it ASAP. In regards to Solo Q, there were only 7 Boons up when the match ended or when the final gen was completed.
The most popular Killer in my Solo Q matches was Bubba who appeared in 14 out of 95 games. That gives him a 15% appearance rate in my Solo Q matches. Out of those 14 Solo Q Bubba's, only 2 didn't facecamp.
The least popular Killer in my Solo Q matches was a FIVE way tie. I never saw Oni, Plague, Hag or Deathslinger in any of my Solo Q games.
For the Kill Rate in my Solo Q Matches, there were 136 sacrifices in 95 games. 136/95 gives us about 1.43. So, the average Kill Rate for my Solo Q matches is 1.43, which to my knowledge, means that the Killer is getting a 1K on average with a slight skew towards getting a 2K.
Next up we have Duo Q games. I ran Duo, Trio and 4-Man queue's with players significantly better than me. Thanks to @Shdw_Void for the help. Also, one of the other Duo/Trio/4-Man Survivors has a crippling addiction to flashlight saves. We probably would've survived more if he didn't try to burn the Killer's retinas every 5 seconds.
Anyway, 74 Duo Q Games. In those 74 games, a total of 192 Dull (or Hex) Totems were cleansed. By dividing 192 by 74, we get an average of 2.60 totems cleansed in an average Duo Q game. Kind of weird that it went down.
There were only 3 Boons active when the final gen was done or when the match ended.
The most popular Duo Q Killer was still Bubba who appeared 8 times, which gives him about an 11% pick rate. Out of those Bubba's, only 1 didn't facecamp.
The least popular Killer in my Duo Q matches was a TWO way tie between Hag and Twins. Never saw them at all.
For the Kill Rate in my Duo Q matches, there were 138 sacrifices in 74 games. 138/74 is 1.86! That's quite a bit higher than Solo Q! I imagine this is because of the fact that my teammates are better than me and I am getting matched with better Killers. Could also be the fact that I was getting matched with Killers with thousands of hours, but teammates with 15-20 hours.
Next up we have Trio Q Games.
In my 24 games, a total of 77 Dull (or Hex) Totems were cleansed. That gives us about 3.5 totems cleansed in an average Trio Q game. Definitely starting to spike up.
Bubba gets dethroned here because weirdly enough, we saw 3 Hag's. Pretty odd. The least picked Killers were Freddy, Clown, Spirit, Legion, Plague, Oni, Deathslinger, Twins, Nemesis and Trickster. This means basically nothing because of the very small sample size.
For the Kill Rate, there were 28 sacrifices in 24 games. That gives us a Kill Rate of 1.29. That's pretty in-line with all the others. This is also such a small sample size that I don't think it matters.
Finally, we have 4-Man games. I did not play many of these. These stats are just for fun.
In my 7 4-Man games, a total of 28 Dull (or Hex) Totems were cleansed. That gives us an average of 4 totems cleansed per match. It would've been higher, but a Nurse took us to Midwich and slugged us until we bleed-out, so that screwed up the averages.
There's too few games to do a Killer Pick Rate thing.
For the Kill Rate though, there were 15 sacrifices in 7 games. Kill Rate is 2.14. If that Nurse didn't exist it would've been around 1.5, just like the rest but that's why I need more data and why this is just for fun.
So that's all my data. If you have any questions or anything you'd like to inquire about in specific (ie, more unincluded stats) feel free to ask. I'm not going to draw any conclusions from this data, I set out to find out how many totems were cleansed on average in a match. In general, there were 586 Dull (or Hex) Totems cleansed and 200 games played. This gives us an average of 2.93 totems cleansed per match.
I love data but all I'm getting from this is that 2.93 totem get cleansed per game in which you are actively trying to cleanse totems?
What's the purpose of this?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733691#Comment_2733691
Not entirely correct as @TAG has already pointed out. But even if we go with the definition you've provided, where is the "causal connection"?
Your argument IS a fallacy.
I supplied it when I said...
Doesn't it make it pretty obvious that you can get a group of people together and start harassing other people and get noticed.
When I made this statement, I supplied a plausible reason why the consequence of banning "Smart Face" could lead to...
What's to stopping a group of people choosing Bubba and only killing Claudette's and Adam's while letting all the other characters go. You're not stopping a behavior by doing this, you're making it rewarding.
Hence, a slippery slope argument instead of a slippery slope fallacy.
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There are a variety of ways to turn a slippery slope fallacy into a valid (or at least plausible) argument. All you need to do is provide some reason why the adoption of one policy will lead to the adoption of another.
Again quoted from Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate (csun.edu)
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733685#Comment_2733685
The issue may be with regards to Smart Face but removing ONLY that one is singling Claudette out because of her skin colour. If they remove SF then the rest have to go too.
Here is why I don't understand that line of reasoning.
If a group of people are using 1 cosmetic in a discriminatory fashion, then removing that cosmetic makes sense. However, removing part of the cosmetics and not removing all cosmetics does not make sense. Leatherface has 2 other "faces" that aren't being removed. If we are going with that line of reasoning, then all cosmetics should be removed.
Everyone knows Claudette is being singled out. There's no question about that. Say "Smart Face" is getting removed and why and be done with it. It's not racist to remove a cosmetic because it's offensive to a group of people.
Partially removing some faces and leaving others, when everyone knows Behavior is targeting "Smart Face" is just asinine at this point.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733675#Comment_2733675
The definition of the slippery slope fallacy and argument are the same. The slippery slope argument is a type of logical fallacy:
A slippery slope argument is not always a fallacy. A slippery slope fallacy is an argument that says adopting one policy or taking one action will lead to a series of other policies or actions also being taken, without showing a causal connection between the advocated policy and the consequent policies
Quoted from Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate (csun.edu)
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733646#Comment_2733646
That would just be specifically singling Claudette out because of her skin colour, which is very much racist and a bad look from a PR standpoint.
Removing them all was the way to go.
People are requesting "Smart Face" be removed because it's being used as a discriminatory tool. If Behavior feels this is an issue, then remove "Smart Face" with that statement.
Behavior isn't singling out "Smart Face" because they are racist, racists are singling out "Smart Face" and the developers are removing it because of that.
There's a distinction.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733597#Comment_2733597
As mentioned in another thread, this is referred to as the "slippery slope fallacy."
There's actually a difference between a slippery slope argument and a slippery slope fallacy. A slippery slope argument is an argument in which one action could logically lead to a new unforeseen consequence.
A slippery slope fallacy is where one action could lead to something extreme or ludicrous. So basically, a slippery slope fallacy example would be, if you get rid of smart face, what is stopping everyone from only killing Claudettes, Adams and Elodies.
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@Rizzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733085#Comment_2733085
No one is pretending that removing the masks will "solve racism", it's the removal of a tool that facilitates discriminatory behavior, it's a preventive measure and it's definitely not going to put an end on racist behaviors, but it's not going to help it either.
Remove Smart Face but leave the other faces. Why remove all the faces, just remove the offending one. Maybe add some new faces like Ace, Nea, Feng and David.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Distortion isn't meant to be a way to hide your aura forever. Distortion tells the survivor what aura perks the killer is using so that they're only caught off guard the first time and also to keep the survivor from wasting time hiding from a perk the killer isn't running. If the killer's running something like Bitter Murmur you can hide strategically and save your final token for when the last gen pops.
Distortion encourages planning ahead. That's good. If survivors can get more tokens, then it's no longer about strategy.
Shadowstep requires 14 to 28 seconds to bless a totem, and it only works in a limited area of the map. Distortion is map-wide.
So hiding in a locker for 10 seconds for 1 token of Distortion is better than blessing a totem for 14 seconds and getting permanent distortion for the entire team.
Every gen has a totem and it only takes 14 seconds to bless that totem. I don't see why buffing Distortion more than the currently planed "1 extra token" is a problem.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732943#Comment_2732943
You seem to be ignoring some critical context in how the masks were used, which is what is dictating BHVR's response.
Doesn't it make it pretty obvious that you can get a group of people together and start harassing other people and get noticed.
What's to stopping a group of people choosing Bubba and only killing Claudette's and Adam's while letting all the other characters go. You're not stopping a behavior by doing this, you're making it rewarding.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732986#Comment_2732986
Must've shown that Clown was OP too
The data problem showed the pinky finger as outperforming other Clown perks. Although, I have to admit, why would you nerf pink finger and be fine with permanent tier 3 Myers.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
They need more precious statistics
I'm saying the developers already have their stats and it's not showing CoH as being a problem. These forums are not a good indication on problem perks.
Least we forget the "Lucky Break" fiasco. The developers had to nerf "Lucky Break" because they were afraid killer-players would die from the seizures they were having.
What's even more funny about the "Lucky Break" fiasco, is the developers buffed it again, and it still isn't used.
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Ok, I watched 8 minutes of that video, definitely not the entire thing yet.
And every survivor that Leatherface camped was a white survivor. Now maybe they were stream sniped, but so far, there hasn't been any proof that even that happened. (Out of curiosity, how in the heck do you stream snipe, I've tried to get into my friends games before by continually going out and back in and have yet to be able to).
Again, I haven't watched pasted 8 minutes but is there any actual evidence in this video showing that these Leatherfaces weren't just doing what all Leatherface's do, camp and be toxic? There was 1 after game chat that was obviously racist but other than that, do they show proof it was intentional.
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@Rigbeta said:
Dead Hard is a perk that rewards bad plays by allowing an injured survivor an immense strategic advantage in avoiding a hit that would've otherwise put them in the dying state after they have lost the chase; Or it buys them that one little boost to reach a pallet and tack on an excess amount to a chase that the killer had already won. It's just a spit in the eye.
My idea is simple: Make the survivor earn the invulnerability. Mettle of Man only procs if you take a hit for someone else's benefit. You're being courageous. So I think Dead Hard should activate only after a Survivor has completed a specific action; avoiding a killer's attack. This perfectly fits with David's flavor text talking about avoiding injuries and dodging, and it rewards a skillful player for actively avoiding danger on their own accord.
Tldr: Dead Hard should activate after a survivor successfully avoided 2 or 3 killer attacks.
Dead Hard should have a 3 second speed burst instead of 1 second.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732975#Comment_2732975
They should remove Wraith too then? He is black and you can do same thing with him.
Or you can use black survivors for target this streamers and players. Or you can use LGBT+ flag and you can target this community too. We should not lose content for bad people. They should ban them. Now this is just reward for them.
Exactly, playing "thought police" is just as bad. Read 1984 by George Orwell.
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@Bloodwebs said:
Legitimate question.
I have read the dev notes...
This perk is absolutely busted and defeats the entire hit and run playstyle for some killers.
As a DbD BETA & veteran 2016 player, I would like to see this perk nerfed as killer games are usually a chore now.
My guess is that the data the developers have isn't showing it as being a problem.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730820#Comment_2730820
Take it up with the IP holder if you want Leatherface's default cosmetic to be removed. :P
What I'm saying is that if 1 mask is racist, then all masks are racist. You can't say "this skin colors" mask is racist and not say "other skin color masks" aren't racist. You are basically saying that it's ok discriminate against the races you aren't removing. Especially the female Leatherface, you can't tell me that isn't disrespectful to the LGBT community if the "smart face" is disrespectful to it's community.
You can't play "thought police", Behavior.
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@TheDarkWall said:
I do also feel that even if we ignore the above average previous patch, this patch is quite underwhelming with the quantity and nature of the changes offered. I'd also say furtive is still a trash perk because instead of making it do something useful other than change the obsession they just buffed the not useful thing it does. That being said, I think the solo changes, if implemented with this patch, will help them have a consistent vision of what the game needs to be balanced around, which will ultimately help the design of dbd for future developments.
You could be right. It probably didn't get buffed enough to really justify using it.
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Shouldn't all Leatherface masks be removed. If one Leatherface mask is considered racist because it is a skin color, then all Leatherface masks should be considered racist.
Why wouldn't Leatherface's default "white-skin" face be removed. It can be used in the exact same way except with white characters.
Why shouldn't female Leatherface's costume be remove since it could be used against anyone running the LGBT rainbow.
You can't do one mask and not include all masks.
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@Pulsar said:
That's it.
I think more perks could have been updated, if nothing else. It's only updating numbers for really bad perks and seeing if they get more use. I could do that in 1 night. Take the bottom 10% of perks and improve the numbers a bit.
- Technician - Audible Range changed from 8 meters to 12 meters.
- Head-on - Stun increased from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.
- Solidarity - Heal increased from 50% to 100%.
- Poised - No scratch marks increased from 10 seconds to 30 seconds.
- Claustrophobia - Blocked locations are increase from 32 meters to 48 meters.
- Dark Devotion - Terror Radius is transfer increased from 30 seconds to 45 seconds.
- Grim Embrace - Tokens decreased from 4 to 3.
- Hex Retribution - Oblivious increased from 45 seconds to 60 seconds
Look I just improved 8 crappy perks within less than 15 minutes. Maybe BHVR should hire me.
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729518#Comment_2729518
If the second survivor is still in a chase after another takes two protection hits for them I feel like you're not against very good survivors and it probably doesn't matter.
If the BT survivor is taking a second hit as a protection hit, then the survivor he is taking a protection hit for to be pretty darn close.
However, if a BT survivor took a hit and ran right back to you, then it's not like he even got use out of BT, either.
That's a really strange situation and I don't see how it's beneficial to do it as a survivor.
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729002#Comment_2729002
Ds on its own I agree with you, it's when paired with bt it tends to become bs as it makes survivors feel safe to get downed again. If collision gets turned off it might be better but that needs to be tested.
DS is bad because it causes bad survivors to throw games because they want to "trick" you. I find it irritating as both killer and survivor. Nothing more fun than going to phase 2 on hook while the survivor you got hooked saving just teabags killer until ds deactivates. It's... frustrating.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729034#Comment_2729034
And I'm telling you that's not what a lot of survivors are doing. You are assuming the unhooked will leave to mend. They won't with ds. They keep bodyblocking because they know you can't pick them up and either unbreakable themself up or hope to get picked up. It happens frequently now when survivors clue in I'm going after rescuer. I can't imagine it getting better if it's basekit.
And I'm telling you that's not what a lot of survivors are doing. You are assuming the unhooked will leave to mend. They won't with ds. They keep bodyblocking because they know you can't pick them up and either unbreakable themself up or hope to get picked up. It happens frequently now when survivors clue in I'm going after rescuer. I can't imagine it getting better if it's basekit.
But that's not bad for the Killer. It means 1 survivor is completely down and not doing gens, a 2nd survivor is in a chase and not doing gens and a 3rd survivor now how to go and revive the downed 1st surivor and isn't doing gens.
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728892#Comment_2728892
DS and BT are to easily used as bodyblock perks to get them for free. Having an unhooked survivor block two hits and know you can't touch for 60 seconds every first unhook would be miserable. Even now if survivors see I'm going for the rescuer they start trying to bodyblock without bt and ds, only loud chirping to protect them.
All it would honestly do is encourage these sloppy rescues and punish the killer for it. Especially when you get survivors who will throw the entire game to get you to set off DS because... I guess it's supposed to be funny? But I've noticed a trend in survivors who seem genuinely angry I didn't tunnel them and start desperately trying to get me to trigger it.
In the worst case scenario, a survivor is unsafely unhooked by another survivors, then body blocks for the unsafe-unhooker. That survivor needs to run away and mend. The killer goes after the person who did the safe unhook instead of the victim of the safe unhook (which already makes the game better for the survivor who was getting screwed).
The killer in this situation is ahead because one survivor is mending then healing, not working gens and the killer is immediately in a chase with another survivor. So 2 survivors aren't doing gens.
Now admittedly, a camper/tunneler-off-hook-till-dead would be better off, because the unsafe unhook would allow him to put the unhooked survivor right back on the hook.
In this scenario with built in DS/BT, the camper/tunneler-off-hook-till-dead is rewarded for playing more like other killers and even though he can still just flat out wait out DS and BT and still get the kill, it does allow the real victim, the survivor that was unsafely unhooked and would normally not even get to play the game, have some options, like crawling off and possibly getting healed by another survivor.
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If someone makes an unsafe save, then go after the unhooker, not the person unhooked. Simple
Because unhooked survivor is not going to body-block with BT, right? if I wait and down him, he is not going to have DS, right?
Unsafe save is mistake by chased survivor, if you are chased and you went for unhook, it's on you and it should be something that killer can punish.
Here is how I see this scenario play out. You have 2 survivors not doing gens. If the BT bodyblocks, then you can hit him, which forces him to waste time mending/healing, then go after the unhooker. This is a win/win situation for the Killer because 2 survivors aren't doing gens and you have started a chase immediately. I am sure I could be misreading this, so what is your opinion?
If I decide that someone is going to die, do you think I care about DS / BT? Only thing your change would do is hurt killers that want to play normally.
If I want to camp, I will take Trickster / Bubba. I don't care about your BT, I can kill you anyway. What do you think happens when I am going to know for 100% that you have DS? I will just go pressure other survivors and pick you a second after it ends.
DS is not something you want basekit. DS actually started to work better after nerf, because killers stopped respecting it.
DS and BT would be used to annoy normal killers and killers that want to actually camp / tunnel are going to play around it. You are never going to use DS unless you get into locker.
DS/BT will not affect someone wanting you dead, however, it does give a survivor a chance to play the game, more than he gets now against those tactics.
Bubba and Trickster may need camping nerfs to be honest.
DS/BT does change the game for survivors because it gives them options, instead of being held hostage. They get to crawl away, or loop.
And what do you think would happen to survivors builds? All those BTs would get replaced with anti-slugging / gen-rushing perks and killers would be even more #########. Yay, balanced.
With Otz's latest video, it does show that Killers don't need to face-camp and camp/tunnel-off-hook-till-dead to win games. In fact, it's boring on the Killers side to need to do that. With those tactics being weaker, gen speeds could be nerfed. In fact, I think nerfing gen speeds and adding a weakened version of BT and DS would do a lot to improve the health of the game.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728892#Comment_2728892
As much as i agree with you on DS and BT being needed due to camping and tunneling, them being basekit would be too much in their current state. If they were slightly nerfed and turned into basekit features, that'd be fine imo
I think that the better option would be to nerf gen speeds slightly and give basekit 10 sec BT and 30 sec DS and if it's not seriously affecting balance, then up it to full BT and full DS with a bit more nerf to gen speeds.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728833#Comment_2728833
Perks are bandaid fixes, actual changes need to be added
As many people that have to run DS and BT now because of how massive face-camping and camping/tunneling-off-hook has becomes, I don't know why they're not base-kit.
If you don't have them, there's a lot of killers that will make sure you don't even get a chance to play the game.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728852#Comment_2728852
Definetly something that can't be abused... not at all
It would be used only against those filthy campers/tunnelers, survivors wouldn't use it to annoy any killer and get protected by a game. Not at all...
If DBD didn't have Killers abusing face-camping and camping/tunneling-off-hook-till-dead, then all these anti-camping suggestions wouldn't exist. However, when you don't even get a chance to play the game because of face-camping and camping/tunneling-off-hook-till-dead, and you realize 2 of your perk slots are always being used as Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time, so you can at least run the killer until the other 3 survivors finish the gens.
The big takeaway, is this is a problem caused by Killers. And yes, basekit Decisive-Strike and Borrowed Time would somewhat affect Killers who didn't face-camping and camping/tunneling-off-hook-till-dead. However, face-camping and camping/tunneling-off-hook-till-dead seriously affects survivor players to the point they can't even play the game, way more than the annoyance that Killers who don't use those tactics would ever be affected.
Borrowed Time pretty much only affects a Killer if that Killer immediately comes back to the hook. If someone makes an unsafe save, then go after the unhooker, not the person unhooked. Simple
Decisive Strike, the person running it isn't doing gens, it's impossible for someone with Decisive Strike to do anything. It's literally the definition of anti-tunnel, it does nothing else. If they run in front of you, slug them.
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@Jenny1234 said:
This perk is too weak, please add other useful effects
How about it breaks the closest hook to you when you get picked up.
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@Astrian said:
We want to share a very early peek at one potential way of closing this gap. Before we do, we want to stress that this is in the very early stages; we’re curious to hear what you think, but please keep in mind that it may change or even be scrapped entirely.
One feature we are experimenting with is a status icon next to each Survivor’s portrait in the HUD that lets you know what they are doing. This way, solo Survivors can base their decision around what their teammates are doing, and partial groups get a better idea of their solo teammates’ contributions, making everyone feel like more of a team. This is something that can already be easily conveyed with a quick callout over voice chat, but is currently not available to solo Survivors.
Once again, this is a very early preview- so early that we’re still discussing this internally. Feel free to share your thoughts, but please keep in mind that none of this is final or confirmed. Depending on how things go, this feature may be changed or scrapped entirely before it ever sees the light of day. We wanted to be open about this and keep you in the loop: The gap between solo Survivors and groups is not going under the radar, it’s something we’re actively working on.
Why does BHVR choose to waste so much time developing a super roundabout solution for a problem that has a simple answer. Just give us Base Kit Kindred.
Kindred is not strong, yet Solo Queue survivors run it all the time because it's the only way we even have a chance at knowing what the mongoloids on our team are doing outside of helping the guy on hook.
Please, just look at the fake 7.0.0 patch video and copy it. So many people loved those patch notes and were disappointed when they found out they were fake. So many people have done your homework for you BHVR, for the love of god just copy it, you don't even have to change it a bit, the teacher won't notice nor care!
I would rather have base-kit Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time. It seems like survivors have to bring those perks in or get camped and tunneled to death, weather you have Kindred or not.
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@Kira4Evr said:
Tap a gen. Because the only hex that is ever used is Ruin
Tap a gen or get hit after the exit gates are powered.
NOED is used almost as much.
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The Clown.
Who else knows how to have fun like a clown. I bet if you parted with the Clown, you'd have all types of fun.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Or how about we insensitive people not to camp without punishing them?
We should actually make Killers more sensitive and they would be less likely to camp. ;)
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727935#Comment_2727935
That Otz isn't evidence of anything and you do a massive disservice to yourself trying to use his video as evidence of anything.
In the fact that Otz is probably one of the most knowledgeable players in the game, if not the most knowledgeable, his statements in the video would hold some weight. Also, he's probably played the game more hours than anyone else.
Take Otz's video with the latest data that the developers have posted, then it does start showing a general consensus. And both those data sources support the data @KayTwoAyy and I have also gathered.
I'm not saying it's definitive by any means, however when you have multiple sources all showing the same thing, it is compelling.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/302898/so-bhvr-finally-got-it
Bet we don't see any killer buffs for quite awhile sorry to say the truth buddy
To be fair, if you buff something you wait and see how it affects numbers before making more changes.
The buff to solo queue might not affect the average number of kills killers get at all, it might increase the number of average kill or it could decease the number of average kills. Maybe the developers are doing it because Killers are getting above an average of 2 kills a game and this is a buff to survivors to balance the game. You just don't know.
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@xxshyguyxx said:
Honestly man I don't know. In so many of my games I just can't keep anyone hurt. It has ruined so many killer perks and playstyles.
I was playing twins and I downed a Meg. By the time I tele back to Charlotte and walked the maybe 30 or 35 yards back she was already healed off the ground and gone.
Anyone I injure I feel like I have to chase and down, I can't hurt and hit someone else to put pressure on them bc they just heal so fast and so much.
So many people run COH in most of my games, and I just stopped snuffing totems unless I'm right next to it bc 100% of the time it gets relit. I'm not even exaggerating. Every single time I hear it relight.
Am I supposed to keep snuffing it out? Screw that. Killers have gens to patrol, survivors to chase we can't keep circling back to a totem all game.
I scratch my head when I hear people say it's not a big deal. Literally prevents perks and playstyles completely, and severely hurts the killer when they heal up so fast so often that it prevents you from downing them unless you commit to every single chase.
Twins suffer so bad from free heals. They'll destroy Victor and then heal immediately.
You don't need medkits anymore. And when you bring one, you heal even faster. Or someone else even faster which is what happened with my twins match.
When I downed Meg, someone with a medkit healed her off the floor so fast I couldn't even make it to her.
I cant be the only one who's having such a bad experience playing killer now. My matches went from 3 or 4ks to 1 maybe 2. If I can't keep them hurt, I can't get hooks and put any pressure on the gens .
I'm honestly thinking of stopping. I don't care about 4ks but free healing for all prevents me from even getting more than 6 hooks half the time.
I mean dude... last two matches I had 2 or 3 survivors were running this damn perk. Essentially the whole map was a free healing ground all match, and you can really feel it.
If a healthy survivor saves a survivor from a hook, I feel compelled to tunnel and eat the borrowed time bc you can't spread out injuries anymore. If I hit Meg she'll just immediately heal again after she speed boosts to a pallet, drops it, and heals immediately right behind it with her medkit
I see survivors with medkits healing mid chase it's so fast. They'll throw a pallet at a strong loop and immediately heal up lol. Like okay.... guess we'll just start the chase over again?
You can't counter this. It's so gross when you load into a match and see 3 or 4 COH perks. What the hell can you do? Lol
It would be nice to see updated Killer win rate data from the Developers to see if CoH has dropped the kill rate for killers below 50%.
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Now, instead of wiggling your controller stick, or mashing a button on PC, you can simply hit Skill Checks to wiggle. This is definitely a good accessibility feature and definitely something I'll enjoy!
This is actually one that I'm a bit worried about. If you only wiggle when a skill check appears, then that could nerf wiggle-related perks, that are already weak to begin with: Flip-Flop, Boil Over, Sabotage and Power Struggle.
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@Phasmamain said:
Twins have too much downtime to be that good even assuming it’s an amazing twins player. COH and dead hard validation kick her down to b tier imo
I am not fond of the downtime with Twins. However, she's still very powerful. Just not fun to play because it feels like you are lagging every time you player her.
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@iThe1One said:
First some context to this whole thing.
Got the game free on Epic, played with a friend who had like ~200 hours before that, I'm a fast learner, I got to Iridescent 2 and him to Iridescent 4, I have meh perks as I'm stuck with the starter survivors so games are usually pretty close.
I also sometimes play as a killer when he's not online. And now here's my issue. For a while killer was fun, I was maining Huntress, chases could take anywhere from 15-30 seconds, the pacing was nice, I'd win some games, I'd lose some, I bought Doctor because fighting vs him felt infuriating...but in a good way, like he was meant to be, constantly making you panic, didn't feel overpowered nor weak.
But then I got to silver rank with killer and game is constantly putting me vs 4 man Iridescent rank players with 2 flashlights and 2 toolboxes, they use said toolboxes to sabotage hooks the moment I grab someone, they body block, they flashlight save, they do EVERYTHING to make sure I can't get a single hook, If I chase someone they go to the most disgusting place on the map to loop me for 1 minute until their teammates finish 3 gens.
NOW finally to my point. I was sick of playing their nasty games so I now I tunnel someone until they do 2 gens, then patrol the 3 closest remaining gens on the map, forcing them to do the furthest one and 3 gening themselves, and since I play Doctor with Distressing + Calm addon, after I whack someone and if they make a small mistake I might chase for a few seconds, then I go in the center of the gens, with my huge terror radius I use Static Blast and where I see a scream I go and whack that generator with Oppression + Overcharge perk.
This leads to games taking 30-60 minutes until they eventual get greedy with the gens or they make a mistake and I catch them. Haven't lost a single game yet this way despite the matchmaking spazzing out with 15 minute queues to find me 4 man premade squads that are all Iridescent 1 with Unbreakable + Borrowed Time + Dead Hard + random perk.
Am I winning all matches? Yes. Is it fun? HELL NO, but if I can't have fun, neither will those survivors.
And what seems to be the cause of this? Gen finishing speed is too fast and loops are too powerful. Gens need to take longer and loops need to be cut shorter, especially pallets, make pallet drop animation faster (buff for survivors) but cut down the walls around them so the loop is harder (buff for killers), so that way survivors drop pallets and run instead of looping you endlessly around the same broken piece of parkour scenery.
1 week ago I didn't understand why killers were complaining, now I see why. Might go back to survivor because despite killer making more BP, 2x the BP is not worth it when matches take 4x longer.
You're getting 4ks as Killer and you want to nerf survivors. LOL!!!
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@Mineguy said:
Ruin got nerfed because everyone was using it and it was too strong.
But dead hard? A Perk that gives you distance to a vault or just denies the down gets buffed instead of nerfed. Since hit validation is in this game I can't play one game where not at least 1 person has dead hard. It's more close to 2-3 survivors every round. So here is my question.
When ruin got nerfed because it was overused and was too strong when is it dead hards turn?
Overuse is not a reason to nerf something.
Ruin was changed, not nerfed. It was changed because it adversely affected new players and didn't affect experienced players at all. In fact, I would say I much prefer the new Ruin to the old Ruin as killer, since the new ruin affects experienced players and the old ruin wasn't a problem for older players.
Also, what does a Ruin change have to do with changes to other perks anyway. This isn't quid-pro-quo, Hannibal.
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@xxshyguyxx said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OHG5JDA840W3/16409092427831770170813699265831.jpg
Yeah. Just another game where most gens are done in 5 minutes, and I can't play long enough to do much. What I did do however was negated by free healing for all. My huntress couldn't keep up. Injure. Heal. Injure. Heal. All game.
Then you down someone and o look insta heal into a dead hard.
It's honestly laughable. 4 Gens done in 5 minutes and no toolboxes either. My biggest issue was keeping them hurt. Heal heal heal
Between speedboosts, instaheals, deadhards, and 100 pallets on every map this game is literally designed for swfs to hammer you into the dirt and your supposed to just take it.
Snuff the boon? Nah relight it. Down someone? Nah for the people or insta medkits. When all 5 gens are done and you struggle to get 3 or 4 hooks......
These are the matches I'm having.
Why would you want to win? Why? To play even harder games where people are worse? Everyone knows high MMR is nothing but 4man swfs and cheaters.
I'll just kill 1 every match then. Focus on daily challenges and archives.
You guys can keep your high mmr crap. It's to much cushion for survivors. To many chances and coordinating for killers to stand any actual chance.
It's a pretty miserable experience. 😕
I don't see an insta-medkit anywhere in here. These survivors didn't bring in any add-ons except 1 flashlight. Their perks were a lot of non-meta perks. Also, you were running horrendous perks. Franklins Demise was a complete waste of a perk slot, why would you use that for a survivor bringing 1 item in? Also, there was 1 CoH, it takes you 3 seconds to crush a CoH and them 14 seconds to light it, then 16 seconds to use it. You are way ahead on time effeciency.
Deerstalker? Huntress Lullaby? Those are horrible perks. It might be all you had, but you are definitely going to have a bad time with a Killer using those perks.
If you want to post a video, we can always critique it, but right now, just based on everything I'm seeing and what you are saying, you were against a much better group of players and you had a horrible perk layout.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722096#Comment_2722096
Spawn RNG is a big factor yes, it is also not that even a small mistake or a great play cannot cause a shift in balance. It is more like a fuzzy general guideline anyway and in no ways some set in stone ruleset. The first chase is important in many games actually not just camping ones, the early game is where survivors feel the least amount of pressure and actual how much pressure they can exert there is very important.
I specifically mentioned legion, as I cannot imagine him being that good at camping. The combo you mention might actually make him better than I would think, who knows. Grabs are in general unreliable and is why you have these dances at the hook.
About your video, you do a pretty good job on the area denial. By no means did the game seem one sided, they truly had opportunities to actually punish you if they played it just a tad bet more conservative. I don't know how you see it, but that seemed like a perfectly fine match for both sides where each side had the opportunity to pull out the W. It came down to pure execution as far as I can tell.
You state that you would want this style of play to be removed, because you wouldn't like facing it? Yet what is fun is totally subjective, I wouldn't have mind to be on the other end of that doctor match. There are things I don't like facing as a killer and there are things I don't like facing as a survivor, yet does it mean that it is a problem? You are each others opponents, some aspects in PvP games isn't fun to go against or beaten by. In games you cannot remove everything anyone doesn't like to face, because at that point there is no game left. That is why I look at these objectively; is it fair, balanced and based on execution.
This game would look entirely different if the team the Killer was playing against was making amazing BT and DH saves. You're not seeing something amazing on the killers side, you are seeing amazing saves on the survivors side.
This isn't fun for survivors, it's absolutely miserable. And honestly, it's not really much fun for Killers either.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721942#Comment_2721942
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721980#Comment_2721980
2K/2E being balanced in an asymmetric survival horror is weird though.
There is this prevailing opinion that survivors dying is unfun but killers have to settle for 4 BBQ stacks as a form of quasi win condition because its rude or mean to kill anyone.
There are a lot of posts on this forum by even BHVR reps saying they just aim for 4 BBQ stacks as their win condition, why even have the kill mechanic then? Just let everyone respawn and farm points and then everyone can escape. Its the worst kind of everybody gets a trophy day mentality.
75% kill rate would be on target for the game's theme. I'd love to have a real sense of danger when playing survivor as only one of us is likely to get out alive. Just like the slasher films this game is based on and tries to emulate.
You see it time and again this mentality where if you don't escape the game is ruined even if it was a rich full game where everyone participated right into the EGC and then died to something silly like NOED.
If the killer was a really powerful computer and the game hard, people would probably relish the challenge, but because its another player they just get angry that someone else managed to kill them.
Trying to balance around this 50/50 escape or die idea just feels like pandering to bad sports who value winning over playing. It undermines the horror element of the game in favour of PVP "fairness."
Do you seriously think a competitive gave where a single player getting 3 wins, while 3 players get 3 loses and another player gets 1 win is going fly with anyone except the person get 3 wins.
Thing about it another way. 1 Team gets 3 wins every 4 games while 1 Team gets 3 loses every 4 games. Who in their right mind would play that game. Do you know of any competitive game that is that incredibly unfair?
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
They can't ignore chapters, it's their main source of income but I do agree that they need to focus on game health
They're not going to have a game if they don't fix the health of the game. The game health has gotten so bad.
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@ReginaldVonBartlesby said:
I've been playing DbD before Legion came out, and each second of it was fun, but it just seems like I'm always "cheating". If i down a bodyblocking survivor? I'm toxic, If I down a teabagging survivor at the gate and hook them? I'm toxic. If i kill all 4 survivors? I get called every offensive name in the book. I don't know what to do anymore. Is it because I main killers? Am I just really unlucky? Am I in the wrong for trying to win as killer? What am I doing wrong?
At this point, I just want to uninstall the game and never look back.
How are you not getting insulted in school.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721875#Comment_2721875
You have no interest in my stand point and in what I have to say. You claim it isn't directed at me, while you are responding by quoting me. You are white knighting for @KayTwoAyy, while frankly we were having a pretty good back and forth all together. We had some frustrations built up and handled it in an actual civil manner... sadly the same cannot be said for you, coming in out of the blue and feeling entitled to claim you know best. There are so many flaws in your piece, but you already indicated that you aren't seeking to have an actual discussion so why would I bother engaging it in. There is no need to respond, you don't want to know what I have to say. You want to only have people say YES AMEN! to your pre-conceived notions and understandings. How dare someone raise queries and discuss something on a forum.
What is your stand point?
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@Torsti56 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/302341/remove-keys-and-key-add-ons-or-rework-them
Tbh, keys are fine now. Only change I would bring back is that Hatch spawns when there is all gens done. Maybe they can also add that one gate must be opened too.
Btw, this is your 5th remove/rework keys post.
- A green key from a chest is useless. Which is not fine.
- A key by itself harms survivor team play since a survivor bringing it into a trail means they benefit from their team failing. Which is not fine.
- Toolboxes, Medkits and Flashlights and their addons improve your chances of winning a game. When you get a key in your bloodweb it means you didn't get a Toolbox, Medkit or Flashlight. Which is not fine.
- Same principle for chests. A key reduces your chances of winning because you didn't get a medkit, toolbox or flashlight. Again, not fine.
Now purple and pink key are useful as Mori.
- A Mori can be used every game. A key cannot.
- A Key requires 2 items to be useful. A Mori works by itself.
- The key when used by your teammates actually diminishes your chances of winning a match, unlike a Mori. It is in that survivors best interest to let you die.
- A Mori allows you to kill a survivor, instead of picking up a survivor and chancing a decisive strike or a flashlight save.
- A key in a chest when you need a medkit or toolbox reduces your chances of winning.
- A Mori is an offering while a Key is an item. Offerings don't hardly effect matches while items can highly influence matches.
- All of these chances have to be true for a key to be useful in a match, which is infinitesimal.
- You have to be the last survivor alive.
- The Killer has to have found and closed the hatch.
- You have to evade the Killer while looking for the hatch.
- You have to find the hatch without any hatch sounds before EGC happens.
- You have to have, for whatever reason, brought in a key instead of a medkit, toolbox or flashlight.