Munqaxus
Munqaxus
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@MikaKim said:
This has ALWAYS been an issue since release.
Camping tunneling killers.
Survivors turned to just leaving games if a killer was super sweaty. Leaving those killers back in the queue where they belonged. Things were OK at that time. Naturally killers whined and so d/c penalties have been introduced.
Sweaty killers have just gotten progressively worse since then.
It's an absolute miserable experience for new soloQ survivors as a result. At this stage I just assume the devs have access to an infinite number of new survivors because their design choices at this point have soloQ survivors right at the bottom. Maybe most new pleys start off playing with friends?
That's the only thing I can imagine at this point.
But don't expect the devs to change anything to reduce this. Playing killer now is easier than at any point at release and that's been the trajectory of the game for some time.
Honestly, the best thing to do is run up to the killer and just give him the kill. If the killer is so desperate for kills that they facecamp or camp within about 8 meters, just give the kill to them. It allows you to move to the next game and have fun.
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@IWFreak said:
Facecamping with Bubba and DMS won't do a thing...
DMS only activates on gens that are let go off. If survivors don't let go, it won't get blocked. If the killer doesn't come to gens, survivors won't let go.
DMS only works, and works best for aggressive killers.
Grim Embrace on the other hand... That could work for a camping build. You would have to be kinda agressive at the start, to get the stacks, but once you get the last one, you can camp to your hearts content. If it is basement with Monstrous Shrine, you can literally get a kill or a hookstate before the next gen can get done.
They're definitely going to let go the first time he facecamps because they have to see why they're not getting off the hook, so you have at least 3 uses out of it automatically. (Unless they all happen to be working the exact same gen, then who cares, they're screwed).
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@freak_115 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2770142#Comment_2770142
sure because you're going to trust the 0.1% of the players that play games with barely any mistakes...
If you take this from a casual DbD killer perspective, of 5 months, 1 year, 2 years or even more years of experience but not as sweaty as Otzdarva.
Twitch streamers and content creators and great and all, but we all know their skilllevels are WAAY higher then the regular DbD player and sure, I agree on many things with Otzdarva. but I don't agree with this 'balanced' game
camping on hooks is more chance to achieve a pip-up then if you try your best?
Survivors bullying the killer is the main goal of the game...
As long as ppl are going to Deny that the game isn't survivor sided, the game won't change and eventually will die because killer mains will leave.
And again all these examples are just extreme and unfair buffs, I know this as well. But implement them for a few months... and I hope many ppl think back when the game 'wasn't killer sided' aka CURRENT DBD OP SURVIVOR SIDED
The last few tournaments aren't showing the game is survivor sided. The Developers Data also shows the game isn't survivor sided. In fact, what source is showing you that the games survivor sided?
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@DocFabron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/306057/campers-op-perks-and-killer
I... I don't get what you're saying. What OP perks? As for camping, you can get all 5 gens done in the time it takes for somebody to be caught, picked up, hooked, and camped. So punish the Killer yourself by giving him a 1 hook/1 kill.
That has been proven to be untrue. I kept records of me camping and I was getting around a 3.5 kills to deaths on average. Another forum user did the same thing and had a higher killed to death average than I did.
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@Lyonic said:
I run,
deadlock, gives me x4 30 sec gen blocks
corrupt intervention, helps me keep some survs off gens
No escape, extra time
Noed, speed boost for chainsaw and insta down
Any ideas how I can improve? When i get a down, i camp till sacrifice.
NOED, Deadlock and Ruin are the holy trinity of face-camp Bubba.
The third perk can be a few different things.
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@GiveMeBoops said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763338#Comment_2763338
So you are going to use 4x self-care?
Or just 1 perk for whole team?
Kinda weird to compare that.
Time looking for totem is just your random number, in most games if you know where to look, you will find it just by traveling between gens.
14 seconds bless + 18 seconds heal time of one survivor vs 16 seconds heal time of two survivors
Just first heal is on level of normal healing or self-care time wise = 32 seconds.
Any other heal you basically gain time. You just ignore fact that anyone can heal there and killer can't get rid of it.
Snuffing is huge waste of time, some totem spawns are super broken for it where killer would waste around 30 seconds to get rid of it, which is a lot of free time for survivors. You also have spawns where killer will never even hear it unless you chase him there.
Yeah, it would take the killer 30 seconds to break the totem yet cost the survivors no time going to that totem. Survivors just teleport to boon totems.
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@The_C12H15NO2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763663#Comment_2763663
Otz admitted he played super sweaty (camped, tunneled, slugged) and he played at night which in the EU has more casual survivor players. ru did the same experiment (also in the EU), he didn't camp/tunnel/slug and played during the day. if i remember right his results were 1-2 less kills on average than Otz.
This experiment is interesting but it still isn't perfect b/c of playstyle, time of day, and more.
A killer who played suboptimal on top of a suboptimal challenge while getting kills would indicate the game is severely weighted toward killer.
You have to realize the Otz played severely handicapped and was still getting wins. He AFKed 30 seconds and played perkless.
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@Jukenobi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763400#Comment_2763400
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763400#Comment_2763400
You misspelled balanced games. If you think killers have the power in the game currently I don't need any further arguments from you. I don't even play killer and know that survivors run the game for the majority in high MMR currently.
Otz proved this by playing every killer perkless while waiting 30 seconds before engaging while maintaining an above an above 2.0 kill rate. (I think it was actually above 3.0 kill rate but could be wrong).
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@Ravenlord4711 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763499#Comment_2763499
secondary objectives should delay survivors not allow survivors to undo the work of a killer with little or no downside.
Honestly, I think it's a good idea because it adds an interaction between killer and survivor that wasn't there before. And it adds a secondary objective for survivors. However, you have to realize, anything that adds a secondary objective for survivors has to somehow affect the Killer negatively or it won't be used. In this case, if the survivor plays the boon correctly, the survivors come out ahead. If the killer snuffs the totem efficiently, then the killer comes out ahead.
As an example, look at chests, another secondary objective, which is no longer used. Survivors don't get anything useful from chests that positively affect survivor game play. The time wasted opening a chest negates toolboxes, flashlights or practically worthless, keys are totally worthless and the time wasted opening a chest also negates medkits except in certain situations where they can't find a teammate to heal them. A 1 in 4 chance of getting something useful from a chest makes chests an absolutely worthless secondary objective.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763316#Comment_2763316
Where is the data showing that they do not?
The devs themselves have said they do not look at the variables of "what happens during the match" only the end result (Kill or Escape).
I am only going by the fact that this is very common, you only have to look at posts from several people complaining about their teammates on here.
If a survivor hid and did as little as possible to contribute towards the objective, they are bound to do it again. This isn't fair to those who have gotten to a higher MMR because they actually ran the killer and contributed to the objective.
It's like imagine you're working on a school project as a team, and you saying someone is a part of the team so they should get the same credit even though the others know they just showed up for the presentation but didn't actually do anything else.
The logic of "skill" is flawed. It might as well be called Escape by being carried MMR system.
I would love you to play 25 games as survivor that only hides in lockers and see how many escapes you make. LOL!!!
(Remember that hatches don't count toward your MMR).
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@Ravenlord4711 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763338#Comment_2763338
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OK now thats done, lets add in the 2nd survivor. how many times do you think a boon totem gets used by multiple survivors before its clensed by killer. and the 8 seconds to find a totem is irrelevant when you have the only other option being finding a survivor. but lets play your little math game. ok it takes 32 seconds with self care to heal. so thats thats 8 seconds to find a totem +14 seconds to bless so we are up to 22 seconds and 16 seconds to heal so 38 seconds that means its 6 seconds longer to bless and heal yourself. now you have given your entire team a glowing indicator of where they can go to heal themselves. so lets say another survivor does the same. now you have except they dont have any healing of any kind so now they get a free health state when they would have had to find a survivor 8 seconds and taking 2 survivors out for 16 seconds so thats 40 seconds of survivor time vs 24 seconds. now this happens ususally multiple times.
see it is only the very first placement and use of the totem that makes self care better, after tthat COH is better in every way. 1. it can be used by everyone giving a total of 18/16 perks and it heals faster than any other perk except for we will make it. but can be used over and over especially if you place it in the corner away from gens. do you know how many hits ive taken for someone being chased and then just walked over to the boon and heal up really fast and do the same?my friends and i would have 2 people healing and taking hits 1 person in chase and 1 person doing gens. literally nothing a killer could do cause if he stopped to take the boon away we would just ignite it again somewhere else.
If a survivor goes to look for another survivor, then that's a survivor throwing the game. You either get healed at a hook or you get healed at a gen. With a boon totem, you have to go to the location of the boon totem which takes time. You can't ignore that time.
CoH is a good perk but it has to be a good perk, because it's also a secondary objective. If you nerf it to much, survivors will ignore CoH and suddenly secondary objectives are gone. Look at chests, they're so bad now that no one does them.
Killers complain about gen times, but when the developers try to fix them by introducing secondary objectives, killers flip out. I guess you expect survivors to setup boon totems that do nothing.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762858#Comment_2762858
Sadly the asymmetric part of the game was the Killer was supposed to be the power role and the survivors were the weaker role. BHVR has somehow made the 4 survivors the power role and the Killer the weaker role.
This is a stupid statement.
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@malloymk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763316#Comment_2763316
I hate devil's advocate, but I'd be willing to bet if you ran plunderers, left behind, iron will, and call spirit with a key and you played like an absolute ghost you could probably escape in at least half of this games if not closer to 75 percent. You'd be playing scummy and would be bored, but it's certainly doable.
But in general you're probably right.
The hatch doesn't count toward MMR.
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I think people are intentionally forgetting the 14 second blessing time of a totem and the amount of time to either find a totem or move to a totems area of effect (Which is probably around ~8ish Seconds with small game, much higher without small game).
New CoH - 1st Heal
- 8 Seconds to find a totem
- 22 Seconds = (8) + 14 blessing time of totem
- 40 Seconds = (22) + 18 healing time
New CoH - 2nd Heal
- 48 Seconds = (40) + 8 Seconds to Find Totem
- 66 Seconds = (48) + 18 Seconds Healing Time
- 33 Seconds = 66 / 2 Heals
New CoH - 3nd Heal (Break even point with Self Care)
- 74 Seconds = (66) + 8 Seconds to Find totem
- 92 Seconds = (74) + 18 Seconds Healing Time
- 31 Seconds = 92 / 3 Heals
As you can see. CoH isn't that great, unless you get at least 3 heals off of it before the killer breaks it. Otherwise Self-Care outperforms it.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763171#Comment_2763171
No, I just call it how I see it.
If someone has been running the killer for 5 gens, and the other 2 survivors are doing gens, meanwhile I am scared so I hide in a locker and walk enough that I got prompt the game to put crows on top of me. Meanwhile I refuse to go save but open the gates and leave instead leaving that one teammate who ran the killer to die.
That shouldn't make the game think I am more skilled than them. It should let me have my escape while also taking into account what I did towards the objective. That is the argument people are making.
So you are telling everyone here on the forums that you believe a survivor who hides in a locker for 25 or more games in a row is going to escape more times than he gets killed on average?
Why do you believe this?
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763117#Comment_2763117
They don't even need to guess. Because the game literally knows when a survivor holds M1. I am saying that there are obvious things that stick out. Not everyone who escapes HAS skill. They just opted to not participate in the match, only to spawn in and let others do the objective for them.
Also because it would be more fair to those who carried the survivor who the game now thinks is "skilled".
You don't understand "Average".
What "Average" means is that if a survivor doesn't participate in game after game, then on "Average" they will escape less than they get killed causing them to drop in SBMMR.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763058#Comment_2763058
What's lazy about it?
Oh, I don't know. The fact that there are variables that stick out in every match that can weigh heavily on the outcome of a match.
I don't particularly love it when survivors who hid the entire game, never took aggro, never unhooked another survivor, never touched a gen, immerse enough to go through the gates as if they did anything outstanding. Anyone with half a brain understands that this isn't being skilled, in a game where it is literally tied to an objective, if someone simply walks through a gate shouldn't be considered "skilled".
Everything you do in a match determines whether you escape as a survivor or make a kill as a killer. How long you can extend or end a chase. How focused you are on objectives. Everything funnels to whether you escape as a survivor or make a kill as killer.
As survivor, if you make more escapes, than getting killed, then you move up in SBMMR because you are using all of those skills in game correctly to make you escape.
As killer, if you are making more kills, than letting survivors escape, then you move up in SBMMR because you are using all of those skills in game correctly to make kills.
Why should you try and "guess" what proportion of "chases" you should do, what proportion of "working gens" you should do, etc etc, when you can literally look at the end product of using all of those skills correctly (escaping or making kills), to determine if you should go up or down in SBMMR.
It's not lazy and it uses all the variables in the game to determine your SBMMR. It's elegant and it works. Killers no longer can get 100 to 200 kill streaks and are mad about it. If you listen to all the complaints, the complaints are coming from killers saying the game is hard now (and streamers in particular). Killers (and streamers in particular) want their back-to-back 4ks back.
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I don't know why the Nurse isn't getting nerfed if this is their philosophy.
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@Sluzzy said:
More proof. Imagine nerfing CoH, a perk that gives the survivor a secondary objective to give you only a slightly better self-care, but a perk like Ruin, NOED, Tinkerer (with no cooldown) is not nerfed. Perks that literally do the job for the killer. But a perk that the survivor has to avoid the primary objective, in order to get a better self-care.... is nerfed.
NOED, Bubba, Blight not nerfed despite often complained about.
I was already seeing less CoH, about the only one of the boon perks used, now it might never be used so killer mains will complain about the next perk.
I promise you, survivor nerfs won't stop until they remove sprinting.
Horrifically killer sided.
I honestly hope this nerf causes survivors to completely quit using Boon totems and spend all that time doing "secondary objectives" to doing gens. Then we can hear the cries of pain from Killers as gen speeds become even quicker.
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@Emeal said:
Seems Dowsey does not know what averages are. Seems most of the Community don't either.
If you are so god like, you will escape the majority of your matches anyway, so you will get higher MMR.
This Community is just depressing. Demanding a system that takes potentially an unlimited possibilities into account, while averages do the job.
I am so glad you actually said this. I'm so tired of people giving "one game" as an example. If you are giving "one game" as an example, you are completely losing the entire point of SBMMR.
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@GannTM said:
So someone isn't good with Nurse because they get 2 kills with 9 hooks in one game? That's not a good argument.
When you use "one game" as an argument, you have already lost.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Well it’s a good start and a step in the right direction. I suspect that it’s not enough, but let’s see how it goes when the change goes live.
For comparison:
Old COH: heal a teammate in 8s, heal yourself in 16s
New COH: heal a teammate in 9.14s, heal yourself in 18.29s
You are forgetting the time to light the totem and the time to find the totem.
Just lighting the totem is below.
Old COH: heal a teammate in 22s, heal yourself in 30s
New COH: heal a teammate in 23.14s, heal yourself in 32.29s
Finding the totem is below/Traveling to totem. (Say about 8 seconds).
Old COH: heal a teammate in 30s, heal yourself in 38s
New COH: heal a teammate in 31.14s, heal yourself in 40.29s
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@some_guy1 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2CB9TWXGN16K/7d6e97611ac59df88d4365478b3d2fd1.png
from today's q&a stream
Why isn't this listed in the PTB notes. Does this mean there's more nerfs and buffs in coming?
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Would love to see the stats broken down by low, mid and high tiers. Also would love to see stats broken down for solo, 2, 3 and 4 SWFs.
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This thread is 90% Dino7281 posts.
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@legrosporc69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/304886/was-overcome-greatly-exaggerated
The perk was not exaggerated its just the introduce dead hard validation so the perk was kill before it got release.
Overcome is better then sprint burst because the killer just womt chase you to save time but with overcome the killer will chase you so you waste the killer time and if he continue to chase you when you use overcome then the game is won if the other survivor can do gen
Actually,
I've had a lot of Killers quit chasing me after they realize I have overcome, after a hit. I had the same thing happen with Smash Hit. It's just said that Smash hit is so hard to get to work.
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2748799#Comment_2748799
Getting Survivors on Chests rather than Gens does sound like a good idea, though.
Chests are so worthless now that I could care less. They're level decoration now. 1 in 4 chance of getting a worthless key. Forget about it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2748030#Comment_2748030
I'll be depressing for a second.
I'm sick. Very sick and nobody knows why. I had to drop out of school because my health declined too much.
As sad as it sounds, this community means a lot to me. I can put my knowledge and my experience to use. I can feel proficient and good at something.
Maybe that's pathetic, but I don't have a lot to feel good about these days.
I hate to hear that Pulsar. Hope everything works out.
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@IamFran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2746385#Comment_2746385
The proof is playing killer.
Or just watching any streamer if you don't want to play killer and see how many times the chases last at least 1 minute more by reaching pallets or windows using the dash.
Bro, that perk is in every match and a lot of times equiped by the 4 survivors for a reason.
I play Killer and Survivor both. When I play Killer, I don't see Dead Hard being anymore of an issue that Sprint Burst or Overcome. Even a survivor that positions himself correctly, will cause Balanced Landing and Lithe to be just as bad.
In fact, as Killer, I'd rather see Dead Hard than Sprint Burst or Overcome. On 2 story maps, give me Dead Hard over Balanced Landing any day of the week.
However, take this with a grain of salt, this is person preference as Killer, just like what you are saying is personal preference as Killer.
I would be interested to see any type of data showing something different. Until then, it's just how it "feels" to you as Killer. Don't pretend like your "feelings" or "preferences" have any sort of weight though.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2746397#Comment_2746397
I expect a smart survivor to figure it out, just as they do with bbq now. If I'm working a gen, see someone get hooked and pop off only for the gen to be blocked, I know what's up. Luckily each survivor has to be hooked multiple times, so I can learn and do better at the next down. Same way I try and figure out if a killer has bbq now. (Didn't feel like I needed to explain that before as I know you are a versed player who's been playing long enough to know how to play the "what loadout does the killer have" game.
I'm sure it will be strong, but people are acting like it's going to single handedly win games, (see: thread title claiming somehow it's "unbeatable") and that's just not the case. At best it will change up the meta a bit, while barely denting the kill rates. (And I think we can all agree, the meta needs to be changed up, on both sides, just to keep the game from getting stale)
I think it's exploitable by the Artist in particular, other killers it will work like the developers intended.
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@Mooks said:
So this is my concept for a second survivor objective, to slow early game and general gen progress down a little bit while making it somewhat interesting for survivor and not be another M1 in one place activity:
For the current gen and healing speed you have to have metal scraps (screws,tools etc) and herbs respectivley in your ‚inventory‘. both materials are scattered around the map and can be collected. You have a maximum amount you can carry and while repairing/healing they will get depleted. There will be small meters in the UI for the survs so they see how much they have/how fast they get depleted.
if you are out of materials you can still repair/heal, but at a much slower pace.
Herbs and scraps have to be collected, there should be a very small pickup animation (kind of like red glyphs but shorter). You can find them anywhere, they are not exactly hidden, and may respawn at new places. Scraps can be detected from a little further away because they shine/ blink a little. Herbs are just growing anywhere and have a distinct look to them. They are a little bit taller so they can easily be spotted. On some indoor maps (or generally) they are growing in mini plant pots (which disappear after collection) (think about Resident Evil HD herbs).
Many perks/items may get reworked to incorporate those new features, some ideas:
Botany Knowledge: Either slower depletion, slow auto refill, auras for herbs. There is many possibilities how it could work
Toolboxes/Health Kits ignore your scraps/herbs meter while they have charges and are used
Saboteur: Refill your scrap meter after sabotage
the idea is generally to give survs stuff to do besides gens, especially for early game. But make it engaging: searching around the map, looking in corners where you normally don’t go etc without being constantly on a silver plate for the killer (that still mainly patrols gens and doesn’t get more stations that have to be patrolled). its not actually a mandatory second objective but slowdown without those should be noticeable enough so survs should always try to not have empty meters
my other concepts (Feedback and suggestions always welcome):
Killers: The Ice Queen, Hannibal, Charlie(The Darkness), The Blair Witch, The Firebreather, The Photographer
Survivors: Aria Morrison, Lukas Schmidt, Paitoon Saeli
Survivor Items: Walkie Talkies, Lighter, Water Bottle, Pocket Knife, Sling Shot, Spray Paint Cans, Salt Pouch, Smoke Bomb, Voodoo Doll, Smudge Sticks
Game mechanics: Expanded survivor objectives, Exhaustion Rework, Spiderwebs
Boon totems are secondary objectives for survivors. It gives survivors something they want to do to give themselves an advantage.
Chests use to be a secondary object but they're so worthless now, that no one wants to use them. Especially when 1/4 of items you get out of the chest are worthless now. You set yourself so far behind using chest builds that it's not even worth it anymore.
If you want survivors to have secondary objectives, then have the developers buff chest builds so they're actually useful.
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@Gigante said:
I'm tired of hearing friends and colleagues say that the game is unbearable, especially for killers. And the main reason for this is the SBMM.
The other older way of pairing players was fairer at least for killers, as at least 1 or 2 kills were guaranteed. Nowadays it is necessary to donate blood, sweat and your soul to achieve at least 1 death.
SBMM is unfair when putting 4 extremely efficient survivors against 1 efficient or average killer, the consequence of this is an almost certain defeat, as the loops, bad map designs and the current meta perks benefit the survivors a lot.
Players are tired of playing as a killer, as having to do your best to try to get 1 kill is extremely exhausting.
Dowsey took two polls with a large amount of votes where it clearly shows that the community is not happy with the current state of the game.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JFPCGKUED4ST/screenshot-20220112-093327.jpg
What do you think? Are you happy with the current game situation?
I wish he had put a poll in there that said.
- Did you actual quit
- Did you just say you quit because you're butt-hurt
- Explain why you are responding to this poll if you actually quit playing the game.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2745127#Comment_2745127
1. What you are describing isn't coordination, it would be if one survivor had to open the door for another to hide. Each survivor doesn't have to coordinate, just act as they already do for bbq. As long as just 1 of the team hides, the survivors don't all fall victim to the tactic. They don't have to coordinate anything, just hop in a locker, something literally every survivor learns how to do during the tutorial
2. Absolute time invested would be misleading even if you had a source for your numbers, as the matches aren't timed, the calculation should be time spent vs advantage gained or lost. In this case it takes less than a minute for a survivor to completely negate 2 different killer perks at the same time without having to bring or equip anything different. That's a major advantage for the time taken. As a matter of fact I can't think of any other simple environmental interaction that can negate half of another player's perk loadout on either side.
3. Of course they'll know how to do it as A. They'll learn in the ptb and B. It's literally the same tactics already used for bbq.
- When I say coordinated, I mean all 3 survivors have to be doing the exact same thing at the exact same time. That's extremely coordinated for a group of players. Almost all survivor I play with don't do that for BBQ, but instead elect to work on the gen, then after ~5 seconds, they walk away from the gen, this is a different tactic.
- The survivors aren't completely negating 2 different perks. In fact, if all 3 survivors are being perfectly coordinated, they are still losing 45 seconds every hook, so those perks are hard at work.
- Survivors won't know what perks the killer has. Do you expect survivors to just randomly start using a tactic to counter a specific perk setup without knowing the killer has that perk setup.
Finally, I'm not calling for a nerf of the new DMS. I'm predicting that DMS will be nerfed because of this tactic, before it is released from PTB. If it isn't, I'll be playing DMS all day on Freddy and even though Artist isn't one of my mains, I'm planning on playing DMS on her too. I have nothing invested in DMS being nerfed or not being nerfed. I kind of hope DMS gets out of PTB like it is so I can use it, just because I feel it's pretty broken on certain killers. However, I just couldn't imagine DMS getting out of PTB in it's current state or heck, maybe the Artist will be nerfed instead.
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@IamFran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744931#Comment_2744931
I've never seen anyone trying so hard before for just not admiting that Dead Hard is OP and one of the main issues balance-wise in the game currently.
I'll gladly admit it if there's some sort of proof. Saying something is OP does not mean it's OP. Honestly, it's just lazy.
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I did a average kills and you were getting an average kill rate of 2.46, that's about a 61.5% kill rate. That's actually much better than I would have thought you would do.
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@Lat0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744490#Comment_2744490
What proof do i need to give you? There is plenty of evidence on youtube how survivors get outplayed yet it doesn't matter because Dead Hard saves them. Everyone knows what this perks does.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2745614#Comment_2745614
Yes Dead Hard does need a nerf. This is a really good suggestion, not a complaint
Someone saying something is not proof. If that were true, then Lucky Break would have broken the game. Instead, it's a completely unused perk, after the developers buffed it.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2745183#Comment_2745183
When taking in factor add ons? Absolutely not.
Blood Amber giving 15 seconds (22.5 if you bring in Prayer Beads) is pretty damn good. It also has the bonus of allowing you a different method of escape even if the hatch has been closed.
Absolutely. I see flashlight saves about every 3 games and god forbid you have 2 people really good at flashlights, they can get instablinds. Not to mention how good flashlights are for chases.
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@Shroompy said:
Since I don't know the whole picture and I didn't see the game myself I can't really comment on that. What I can say how ever is Flashlights are probably the weakest item a Survivor can bring, all you need to do as killer is angle yourself in awkward positions and you can pretty much avoid any blind. Also you're risking precious gen time to go for that Flashlight save, and if you don't succeed that's even more time wasted.
As for the tourney setting/gamemode. It wouldn't work, even with incentives like cosmetics you would have people complain that cosmetics are locked behind a gamemode, and if you make it something like a charm then no one would give a damn. I was for this sort of thing but just thinking about it makes me realize that it doesn't benefit any one.
SWF groups whose intentions are to bully the killer wouldn't go there either since a good killer can deal with those sort of things. And if you force SWF's to go into this mode they would simply snipe themselves in Solo Q lobbies.
Keys are the weakest item.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2745074#Comment_2745074
It's not people responding back that's bothered me.
It's that this argument had been had out. People have refuted, or at least responded too, your points in the other thread. But rather than respond to THEM, you just direct them at me now.
That makes it look like you're not looking for a discussion; you're looking to 'win' by taking your ball from one game to another and hoping you have an easier time with a different opponent.
I'm not rising to it. They said everything I would have, and better than I would have. Asher pointed out how hard and impractical facecamping 1 survivor and 3 gens using only crows would be. That's when you left that discussion to come here.
Honestly, I didn't know he had responded to me. I responded back after I looked for it.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744516#Comment_2744516
DMS requires you to let go of the gen AFTER the hook in order to take effect.
The counter to bbq is going into the locker BEFORE the hook.
So no, no it really doesn't.
I didn' t see this reply. So I'm going to reply back to you. Why this is abusable is because survivors lose 45 seconds of time if they play everything perfectly and lose 2 minutes and 15 seconds if it goes wrong. A 45 second penalty for doing everything right is massive. (A survivor would need to find a locker after the killer picks up the survivor which is ~5 seconds at the least, ~5 to hide in the locker for BBQ and another ~5 to get back to the gen and start doing it again).
This is an amazing amount of coordination for 3 survivors to do while all the Artist has to do is stand in front of a survivor and shoot off crows. And even with this amazing amount of coordination, the team is losing 45 seconds of gen time.
And you have to also realize, the first time the Killer does this, no one is going to know to do this to begin with, so they're going to lose 2 minutes and 15 seconds.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744931#Comment_2744931
lol
Seems fair and legit.
Thank you for agreeing that it's perfectly reasonable and fair way to actually get a better look at how Dead Hard compares to other perks. Instead of just "shouting at the sky" which is what a lot of people are doing.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2745008#Comment_2745008
You quoted my quote to edgarpoop. Therefore YOU engaged ME.
Stop harassing me. I'm not going to argue with you about a perk/Killer combo I really don't care about anymore.
I'm sorry, I do see where I quoted your post. But you did say.
To say a power needs a nerf BECAUSE it's not fun is...a vague reason?
Because you appeared to want a more detailed reason why it would need nerf, I responded below
Artist/BBQ/DMS combo is abusable because it allows the artist to face-camp 1 survivor and deny all 3 gens to the other 3 survivors.
You are in a forum in which people are going to respond back to you. Being upset about it does no one any good.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744990#Comment_2744990
All other Exhaustion Perks have easily accessible conditions, but no where near as accessible as Dead Hard. If you're caught in a dead zone, Lithe or Balanced Landing ain't gonna help you all too much. Sprint Burst will and thats the strength of it, turning dead zones into semi safe zones. Overcome is another problematic perk, only reason why it doesn't receive as many complaints is because Dead Hard has been the complained about Exhaustion perk for a while, I can guarantee the moment Dead Hard gets nerfed, Overcome will be next hot topic.
Also a risk reward playstyle without involving any risk is not an issue to you? Imagine if hexes weren't hexes but they just had their effects as a passive. Its literally all reward with no risk involved and there is absolutely nothing the other side can do about it (maybe a bad example but I'm sleep deprived and its the only thing that comes to mind)
Also you have to take data with a grain of salt, as it only shows a fraction of the whole picture. Just take Nurse for example.
Lithe and Balanced Landing are setup perks. You're going to set up on a gen that is close to those. But lets just leave them out of this since we're talking about dead zones.
I can see Overcome and Sprint Burst helping in dead zones but I don't see Dead Hard helping in dead zones just because it's only a second of dash.
Again, there's a lot of what-ifs through out. In fact, you can throw what-ifs out all day.
The better argument would be actually just gathering data. Why has no one actually went in and tested how long each of these perks extends chase times. It's easy to do and would show for a fact an exhaustion is perk is way overperforming other exhaustion perks. I'd personally love to see the data because it really seems to me that there's a lot of hysteria around Dead Hard but nothing concrete on why it's a problem.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744946#Comment_2744946
I don't have data but I can explain why its a problem
The reason why is because its the only exhaustion perk that has a very easily accessible condition, and that's being injured. It also allows Survivors to play a "more risk, more reward" play style without actually involving any risk, only the reward. A good Survivor with Dead Hard is nasty, the same can only really be said with Sprint Burst but the difference is the timing. With Sprint Burst you almost have to go out of your way to 99 it, some times you have it almost ready and the killer is coming and you can save it during chase but thats more luck than skill.
I personally don't think Dead Hard is as big of an issue as people make it out to be, but I do still think its an issue.
All the exhaustion perks have an easily accessible condition. Overcome is literally just getting hit, Sprint Burst is running, Lithe is jumping through a window.
How is risk/reward play a reason to nerf a perk. It's just a different play style.
If there is data showing the perk is outperforming other perks, then I'd say nerf the perk. But I really honestly think people just get frustrated at the perk and want it nerfed, which again, is not a reason to nerf a perk.
I guess you could say that Dead Hard allows for successful Borrowed Time plays. But I don't think that's a bad thing.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744941#Comment_2744941
Why not ask AsherFrost? They were the one you were talking too in the other thread before you decided it's time to shove the same ideas down my throat.
I don't care. I'm not going to get in an argument about it. Ask the OTHER 'DMS + Artist' overreaction thread.
Ok, I checked the thread and I'm not seeing where they said it was horrible impractical for the killer to do this. I do see a horribly impractical solution for survivors, where all 3 survivors have to stop doing all gens while the survivor is being picked up, try and find a locker, hide in the locker until bbq is finished, then wait longer in the locker, until the survivors hear crows.
Say it takes 5 seconds for the killer to pick up the survivor and get the survivor to the hook, then 5 seconds to wait out bbq, then 5 seconds to get back to the generator to start working it again. That's 45 seconds of time wasted by the survivors trying to avoid this strategy. If the strategy works, the survivors have lost 2 minutes and 15 seconds of repair time.
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@Shroompy said:
Boons are fine, only problem really is CoH. I'd even go as far as to say CoH just highlights a bigger issue that people don't really seem to realize and thats just healing in general. So how do we fix that?
I've said this multiple times and I'll say it again
Make healing require more charges after each heal, first heal requires 16 (like now) and every heal afterwards you add an additional 2 charges. so 16, then 18, 20, 22 and so on. This nerfs CoH while still keeping it a strong perk, it nerfs medkits which are arguably the strongest item in the game, and also keeps Boons strong but not overwhelming. Since again, the only real problem is CoH
I will say tho, Boons should have a disk radius instead of a cylindrical. So they don't work on multiple floors and actually become quite a pain on maps like RPD, Ironworks, Hawki- oh
Moving on, Dead Hard!
After Dead Hard is used the Survivor cannot perform any action (similar to The Doctors shock) for 3 seconds. This keeps the perks intended design which is for dodging hits and removes Dead Hard for distance.
Again, why is Dead Hard a problem? Can you show data proving that Dead Hard is outperforming other exhaustion perks in extending chases.
Dead hard is designed to dodge a hit and 1 second of distance.
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https://youtu.be/VN-c1VhlFcs@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744919#Comment_2744919
You've said this before, and people pointed out why it's almost impossible, and horribly impractical, for Artist to do so. But you keep ignoring them to say it again and again.
In the OTHER thread about Artist and DMS, people already told you how impractical it is. You keep throwing out 'what ifs' of increasing impossibility and trying to claim they will be common occurrences.
This looks very easy and doable to me. Can you point out to me why it isn't.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744802#Comment_2744802
*nod nod*
Show me the data that proves all these people are wrong - should be easy, right?
It's not like you're expecting people to somehow have access to developer-only data and using this lack of access to discredit thousands of other players, popular streamers, literal dev replies to various tickets regarding validation issues, etc.
That would be a pretty bad look and extremely disingenuous.
it is actually very easy. Setup 10 to 20 random routes on multiple maps. Have the route have a drop and a vault available to use in that route. Take Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, Lithe, Balanced Landing and Overcome and test the amount of chase time each exhaustion perk gives you on average before you are downed. If you don't have Balanced Landing, then you avoid the drop part of the route (The drop should follow the route pretty closely or you can even just not test Balanced Landing with the rest).
If Dead Hard is overperforming you will see it. It's amazing simple to show an exhaustion perk is overperforming in chases.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744799#Comment_2744799
Apologies. I had come out of a rather rotten RL discussion and read more intent into your post than you meant.
It's too easy to see it as 'Survivor's fun first' when so many Survivors try to demand nerfs because '<x> is unfun'. Camping is unfun. Slugging. Tunneling. NoED. Remember Me. All should be nerfed because 'unfun'.
Yes; fun needs to be considered, but it also needs to be considered that losing is always less fun than winning. And also; fun is subjective.
Some Survivors like hiding. Some love the chase.
Some Killers like hunting for Survivors. Some love trying to mindgame a chase.
Some Survivors/Killers only like winning.
To say a power needs a nerf BECAUSE it's not fun is...a vague reason? I'm probably not wording that right.
Sure; a Killer power that insta-kills all Survivors is unfun and unhealthy for the game. To use hyperbole. Same with a Survivor perk that just insta-completes 5 gens.
But...I feel 'fun' is too subjective to balance on. Instead I feel...If the game were balanced, the fun would come naturally? Does that make sense?
Don't balance FOR fun, on either side, because it will all be fun if it's balanced.
Artist/BBQ/DMS combo is abusable because it allows the artist to face-camp 1 survivor and deny all 3 gens to the other 3 survivors.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735114#Comment_2735114
I guess this means this game is going to blow up if we get a PoC killer
Every killer is a PoC. There's no permanently translucent killers in the game.