Munqaxus
Munqaxus
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@Dionysus42 said:
Remove Boons and Dead Hard General Discussion
In the considered opinion of various people such as Charlemagne and Ivan the Terrible, boons and Dead Hard should be removed from the hit videogame Dead By Daylight effective immediately. Please discuss.
Why should Dead Hard be removed?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744502#Comment_2744502
You know that's not what I was trying to say there, but I'll bite anyway.
Should Dead Man's Switch be a better perk? Yes. Is this proposed iteration abusable by certain killers? Yes. Meaning it shouldn't go live.
The overall health of the game needs to be considered with every change. If a change potentially leads to a killer blocking 3 gens while proxy camping a player on hook for the duration of a hook state, that change should be reconsidered.
I was thrilled when they made hatch/key changes and nerfed instaheals. I was also thrilled when they nerfed moris. The game should be fun and balanced.
Didn't the patch drop already?
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As many forum posts as I see on this, yet not a single one has made any effort to prove it's "broken".
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/304433/no-perk-afk-killer-challenge
You should really keep this in excel so you can show the data. You can copy & paste excel snippets on here.
Yeah: Kills, Escapes, Hatches, DCs, Gens Done, Maps
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@Gigante said:
This perk is at 99,99% in my killer matches. It's extremely frustrating to be absolutely sure you were going to land the hit on the survivor and finally hook him up but suddenly the survivor dodged your hit and managed to get into another safe loop.
Dead Hard is a perk that you only need to be injured to activate. Oh really? Just that? This is considered the strongest Survivors perk and since it was released there has never been a significant change to it. It's ridiculous that the survivor can use this perk, get a considerable distance to a pallet and on top of that be IMMUNE to any hit. If Behavior makes a point of nerfing killers and perks that are being used a lot, why has this perk never been changed?
Show us the data proving Dead Hard is overperforming other exhaustion perks by extending chases longer than other exhaustion perks do.
Otherwise you don't have proof.
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Dead Hard Abuser! LOL
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@IsMmrReal said:
I have started doing this in reverse order. So instead of starting with Trapper I started with The Artist. So far I have won (3/4K with no one leaving through the gates) with Artist, Pin Head, Nemesis, Trickster, Blight, Pyramid Head, Oni, and Demogorgon.
I have Drawn (2k) with Twins and Deathslinger.
I have not lost (3/4 Escape through the gates.) yet. I am up to Ghostface and will be continuing this challenge.
I get Otz is trying to show the game is not survivor sided and that it is just a matter of perks and addons. But I have found playing to just outright kill the survivors without relying on perks and addon and trying to get value from them I have played most efficiently than ever.
Let me know if those of you who have been doing this challenge have had a similar experience. I am curious as I was watching someone on stream last night and they weren't doing to great, but they were also assuming because they were perkless that they were going to lose anyway.
You should really keep this in excel so you can show the data. You can copy & paste excel snippets on here.
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@Oiry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744496#Comment_2744496
It's a bold statement to say that it's less time-efficient before its 3rd use than self-care, due to 1 single reason: when you bring self-care, you sacrifice 1 perk and give 4 (if we count CoH as 1 perk value)
Also, many times efficiency is in the speed, not in the numbers. A great example is built to last with the toolbox. Just looking at the numbers you could say it's okay because you spend time in the locker, but in reality, the danger is on the speed of the gen, not in the survivor's invested time.
I do understand what you are saying though, in terms of "recognize it's not that valuable in many games". I can agree. However, the more I think about the perk, the more I'm mad about the fact it's in the game and not getting even the slightest touch in 5.5
No one has access to the developers data. However, it does appear that the developers are rather quick to change things that are way over-performing, such as Pinhead. Since CoH hasn't been nerfed, then you have to consider it's way over-hyped on these forums, compared to what the data developers are seeing. The developers even said they were keeping a close eye on this perk, specifically.
If the developers are seeing an issue with this perk, then it would have been nerfed already, considering how often this perk is brought up on the forums.
I think we're seeing a lot of hysteria about this perk when in fact, it's not showing anything with the developers data sets.
This is based on the fact that the developers haven't touched the perk.
It's the same thing as Lucky Break. Everyone was freaking out about it, the developers nerfed it based on the forums, and no one used it. The developers buffed it again and still no one uses it. I think Killer mains kind of screwed themselves and their credibility with Lucky Break.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744504#Comment_2744504
Bbq, the perk than can be beaten by a locker, or just being on the opposite side of the gen from the killer? That bbq? Still not worried. I mean, don't get me wrong. Bbq is a good perk, but it has insanely easy counterplay that doesn't even require a perk or item
DMS requires to you get off a generator for it to activate, so going into a locker just plays into the Artists/DMS/BBQ combo.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Nurse can't get nerfed. That's her problem. Any nerf to her Power would kill her
Buff her speed to 4.6 m/s, which would make her more accessible to new players. Where her kill rates are abysmal.
Nerf her blink to 1 blink with a massive cooldown which makes her much weaker in experience player hands. Where she has practically a guaranteed 4k.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744492#Comment_2744492
She can
if she picks the right 3 gens
if nobody let's go before the hook
if she gets the right side of each gen.
That's 3 ifs without even bringing up the map differences.
It also doesn't account for just going to the next gen that wasn't blocked because nobody was working it when the survivor was hooked.
I'm not worried because it's a very clearly niche situation where the stars will align well enough for DMS to do more than be a minor annoyance, and definitely doesn't do enough to change the killer meta.
It's hard not to pick the right 3 gens since BBQ exists. (Which, btw, is part of the DMS combo)
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@Oiry said:
So I was trying to learn Oni today. The main idea was to hit people, let them go and get my power consistently, and then basically only try to down people with my power to train it. In almost every game there are boons, sometimes multiple. I was trying to snuff them, but on stacked maps like Midwich this becomes impossible and they just rebless it anyways...
So how do you guys deal with them?
I can't tunnel out the person with the boon, because, firstly, sometimes I don't know who has the boon in the first place and, secondly, In a decent amount of games there are multiple of them.
The other option is to just generally always go after the injured survivor, which is kinda stressful to do and no one really enjoys it. Any tips from veteran killers? (Except for playing Plague every game :D)
A boon totem is less time efficient than Self-Care until it's 3rd use. If you are breaking the totem before it's 3rd use, then it's wasting survivor's time. Since you are patrolling generators anyway, you will find it without going out of your way.
However, if you focus on the totem, going after it every time you hear it being lit, then you are wasting your time and give the survivors the advantage.
The big thing is realize it isn't that big of a deal. Just get it when you are close to it. Otherwise don't even worry about it. It's when you focus on it, that you lose.
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@AsherFrost said:
Couple issues with your math here.
First, she fires 3 crows, 4 with the right add-on, and there are 7 gens, so there's no way she's blocking all of them. Even in a 3 gen, she's going to have to pick the side of it a survivor is on, through a wall, without being able to see them. (Seriously one of the best counters to artist so far is just working the front or back of a gen instead of the sides, makes so many of these shots miss)
If she shoots 2 crows at the same gen (as you described) that only leaves her with 1 other gen she can try to hit. Then she has a cool down (and slow speed) to try and pick 1 survivor to capitalize on (while the others keep working)
So yeah, if you are 3 genned, and she hits every crow, and nobody is smart enough to let off the gen when they see their teammate picked up, she'll get to block all 3 for 30 seconds, while preserving their progress.
That's not really the same thing as being able to block all gens easily.
She can easily block all gens the survivors are working. If she blocks all 3 gens the survivors are working, that's 90 seconds of time lost. That's massive.
I'm not too worried about it, because it's got hotfix written all over it.
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@Lat0 said:
Title says it all. Perk is broken, gives survivors 3 health states and everyone is using it.
We are past the part where Dead Hard for distance was only used my smart survivors, now everyone realized how to abuse this perk and it's a braindead autowin in chases.
There is no counter to it. Anti-exaustion perks and addons are pretty much useless. Killers have no way to avoid this perk.
Do something Bhvr before there will only be facecamping Bubbas playing your game
You say it's broken but don't give any proof it's broken.
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@Idontknowtbh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2589956#Comment_2589956
I use keys with the add-on to see the killer's obsession when playing solo and I don't have firecrackers left
Exactly this, a firecracker is worth more to a survivor than a key. There's even a perk that allows you to make firecrackers in lockers.
Please Devs, remove the keys and their add-ons. You can always add them back when you rework them.
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@Clevite said:
That's why I say, stop camping and tunneling, let the data fall where it will and buffs will come.
I just did 100 games as facecamping noed bubba and averaged over 2ks a game.
So as long as these tactics are used, it will be hard to balance for hooks.
100% This.
It's why the developers should do stuff to disincentivize face-camping and tunneling-till-dead. It increases kill-rates for low skill tactics and adversely affects killer buffs because the developers are seeing high kill rates from killers.
I really think a baked in watered-down Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time would help. Had a DS and BT in survivors kits that doesn't work for EGC. If you want one that does work for EGC, you use a perk slot. Face-Camping and Tunneling-till-dead are two very low-skill tactics that every killer has access to, why shouldn't all survivors also have access to a way to counter those tactics. The slow down gen speeds to compensate.
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@artist said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN-c1VhlFcs&ab_channel=artist
keep in mind this is the live version of the game and not the ptb. if this were the ptb i wouldn't have had to allow unhooks to keep showcasing DMS. i also wouldn't have needed to run furtive chase and would've had room corrupt or starstruck. the especially lucky part of this video is how i found the obsession first, which won't matter if the ptb version of DMS goes live! the video ended early because i can't get current DMS to work once the obsession is dead unless i get a new one, but it's a 3v1 at that point anyways.
i'll be first the admit that this won't work as well on other maps with gens on different elevation (haddonfield, badham) but i don't think that justifies this working this well on actual good maps lol
another game, but much closer: i think the most noteworthy thing about this video is 2 gens were finished at the 3 minute mark in the video (about the same time i started activating DMS), but the 3rd gen wasn't finished until 11:41 in the same video. wow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-oOUwxMeLc&ab_channel=artist
It's obvious that Leatherface needs a camping nerf and the best was to nerf his camping it to make another Killer just as bad!
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Everything is Survivor sided except for the Developers Data, Otz, independent data and recent tournaments.
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@CheerfulSpirit said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742240#Comment_2742240
Just to clarify, the House of Pain in Springwood is the house with the basement?
But thanks for the tips everyone. Yeah I'd rather do Haddonfield than Springwood 😆
Isn't the House of Pain in Springwood and Haddonfield?
Also, what is so bad about it?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Game should balance around hooks, not kills.
I can play as Bubba with NOED. And i can take min 2 kills every game. 2 kills are seem balanced but was it fun? No.
Every camping Bubba would be getting 4ks and 4 hooks, because they would all be at the lowest levels of MMR. Never going up in MMR, terrorizing new players until the new players quit.
MMR based on hook is a TERRIBLE idea.
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@KayTwoAyy Only forum user, so far, willing to go down the data rabbit-hole to bust forum myths.
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@Gigante said:
Doing a gen is the easiest and most pathetic thing in this game and that's one of the reasons why matches are so fast these days.
It's so unfunny, boring and easy that it's something we can do while lying down, eating a Doritos, reading phone messages etc.
It's tedious for survivors and even killers, as it's so ridiculously easy that gens are easily finished in a short time.
- "but there are skillchecks"
Oh yeah, a skillcheck that appears every 30 seconds or not at all. And let's face it, the ridiculously large size and slow speed makes it look like nothing.
There should be something that really needs your attention and skill while doing a gen. As it is, it's outdated and boring.
It's the Killer's job to entertain the survivors. Not the job of the generators.
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@FreshCoal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743160#Comment_2743160
That doesn't even make any sense. One-hit downs counter Dead Hard, because you are able to instantly down a healthy survivor and not let them even use dead hard. Do you even know how the perk works?
Well, if you were a Killer that could make injured survivors healthy again, then you might have a point.
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@Gigante said:
This perk is at 99,99% in my killer matches. It's extremely frustrating to be absolutely sure you were going to land the hit on the survivor and finally hook him up but suddenly the survivor dodged your hit and managed to get into another safe loop.
Dead Hard is a perk that you only need to be injured to activate. Oh really? Just that? This is considered the strongest Survivors perk and since it was released there has never been a significant change to it. It's ridiculous that the survivor can use this perk, get a considerable distance to a pallet and on top of that be IMMUNE to any hit. If Behavior makes a point of nerfing killers and perks that are being used a lot, why has this perk never been changed?
Dead Hard serves as a counter to 1-hit downs. No other perk can do this. Everything should have a counter in the game. Slugging is Unbreakable and Exponential. Camping is Borrowed Time. Tunneling-till-dead is Decisive Strike. One-hit downs is Dead Hard.
Maybe there should be some additional One-hit down counters, other than Dead Hard, then Dead Hard wouldn't be used as often.
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@legrosporc69 said:
Its not a us vs them type of complain its just some thing i saw with the dev response and logic.
They said they did not touch CoH because they want more data but they nerf cenobite after a month. They did that on multiple occasion on killer but not with survivor perk. Ofc im not talking about any change from the ptb to live version because technicaly the perk, killer or addon is not release yet so its bound to some change even if they rarely do change.
Another thing i saw its the event most of the event are better for the survivor recently we had the snowman this had a health state to the survivor so you could jump in it during a chase to tank a hit it was a fun event for the survivor but not for the killer. Samething with the halloween event survivor can keep the addon but killer cant this is kinda BS and killer get robbed of some BP for spending it during the event.
I know this example is a while ago but when they nerf wraith it was because it was a bit op that not a good reasoning say why you think he is op.
Recently they said that swf have a better escape rate compare to solo its really good they finally saw that after 5 year but the response to that is we gonna nerf killer so they dont retk the solo player while we are trying our best the buff solo survivor so they can closer to the swf player. That how i saw the mid chapter part 1 patch i know this wont happen immediatly but its going to be introduce on multiple patch bit by bit.
I hope this sound not to much a us vs them type of complain its not the goal i was trying to reach
What may be possible is that the developers have data strongly showing Cenobite is very powerful and needed a nerf while CoH might not be showing anything.
If you really think about it, CoH takes ~38 seconds for the 1st heal, which is worse than 32 from Self-Care. (14 seconds to bless, 16 seconds to heal and ~8 seconds to find the totem). The second is the break even point for CoH, at 31 seconds per heal. The 3rd heal is where CoH shines. Every time the Killer breaks the totem, it resets that time.
Maybe CoH just isn't as big of a problem as everyone perceives it to be, according to the developers data. Also, we know these forums are really bad to shout fire (Lucky Break anyone) when someone strikes a match.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742508#Comment_2742508
Data is incomplete cause doesn't factor in most things outside of basics such as perks and add-ons
Also since everyone one wants to use scott and otz's videos as an explanation for why its killer sided explain to me this then
- Huge gap between low and S-tier Killers
This was put up by otz 3 day ago as part of a tweet for balancing so explain to me how killer is balanced when certain ones like slinger, legion and twins are at a point where they can easily be removed and disposed of without much resistance
Also using the 2 kill rule and stats that the devs said means nothing cause it doesn't factor in things such as dc, hatch and people flat out giving up (which while yes otz has used in his vids it still happens especially with how rng this game is) along with the fact that people can just hide or use cheap tactics and still win, things like that muddy up the supposed stats and arguments for how its killer sided.
As for Tournaments remember most tournaments have restrictors and limits to what each side can do the one that people keep bringing up from Scott is just that a one-time thing and Scott never said who used what in the context of killer the lowest one he brought up was artist which right now could be considered a high tier killer.
My argument is that people are saying the game is survivor sided even though there isn't data to support it. Yet there is data to support the game being killer sided.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
Meanwhile the wiggle mechanic gets a buff because...why not? But the one actual legit killer buff in the entire patch? CALL THE COPS COTE!
It's not a buff for survivors, it's an aggravation.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742773#Comment_2742773
The stats take everything into account, from games in low MMR to games in high MMR. The huge amount of people in low MMR brackets artificially increase the Kill rates, if there were MMR specific kill rates, maybe they'd be more specific
I wish the developers would break down data per game level. Have a novice, mid and expert for each killer.
I really don't understand the secrecy anyway.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742667#Comment_2742667
Using dev stats to disprove people would make more sense if the stats were accurate, which they aren't
Why are the stats not accurate?
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742590#Comment_2742590
How is Bubba overperforming with experienced players. Windows turn him into an M1 Killer, even with Bamboozle, since there's so many Windows that loop into each other. Only thing that Bubba has on experienced players is his camping potential, which is the only thing that makes him dangerous
Just according to the developer stats. In all honesty, I was responding to @Emeal saying that he wasn't overperforming, while the developer stats are showing he's overperforming. So I'm curious where his data comes from.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742561#Comment_2742561
Want 5 Blink Nurse back into the game? Those stats are meaningless
I love this argument because it means people don't understand what "average" means.
Nurse underperforms severely when novice players begin learning her, usually resulting in 4 escapes over and over again. However, when she is played by an experienced player (which there are way fewer of), then she gets consistent 4 kills. When you "average" those 2 levels together, it does show she is underperforming on average. If Nurses "novice" game was buffed a lot and her "experience" game was nerfed a lot, then she would be closer to "average". However, I bet you don't want that. (Maybe improve her movement to Trapper speeds but reduce her blinks to 1 with a long cooldown). It improves her playstyle for novice players but nerfs her playstyle for experienced players.
Leatherface, on the other hand, outperforms with beginning players and with experienced players. Indicating he is "overperforming" on average across all skill levels.
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@Emeal said:
Leatherface does not seem to be overperforming atm, even tho his Power is pretty easy to use and learn.
This is not showing Leatherface as overperforming?
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@Ganoniroth said:
Hi BHVR and DBD Forum goers. Disconnects should count as hooks, meaning if a survivor DC's, it should immediately trigger hook perks - yes including Scourge hook perks. There have been several times where a survivor on death hook will deny me a Pop Goes the Weasal or Pain Resonance trigger, which is frustrating to deal with. Survivor's have gotten several quality of life changes recently, including the dead hard and pallet stun validation changes. It would be nice to give killers a nice QOL change that helps overcome a minor exploit in the game. Thank you.
It would mean that DCs would also count as killers, which would push killers up in the SBMMR.
Honestly, DCs screw survivors a lot more than they screw killers.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741601#Comment_2741601
You are right on nearly everything you said, but I am also talking about the meta implications of DS. A few days ago I had a match on the game map, were the last two survivors were a Laurie and a Yui. I had hooked the Laurie and actually wanted to let the Yui go, so I cornered her and she did the surrender t-bag and I thought I had communicated to her that she was free to go. But then she blinded me and unhooked Laurie. Seconds later both were on the floor, Yui went on the hook, and then the three of us waited one full minuten until I could be sure that it was save to pick up and hook Laurie. I mean its just a minute, but three people wasted it for no gain at all. And this happens a lot with DS, or DS prevention measures, ie a lot of innocent people get slugged for a minuten, because they could be running DS. And there is probably no real solution to this, but I find it quite frustrating.
But yeah, you are right, if I get hit by a DS that protected an unhooking from 50s ago, thats a gain for me. Still, one minute is still pretty long and eating such an "old" DS feels undeserved? I mean I didnt tunnel at all, that player just desperately tried to get value out of DS.
There has to be a balance. If tunneling-off-hook-till-dead is literally preventing survivors from playing the game, then a watered-down Decisive Strike that doesn't work during EGC, would be a good solution. I'm sure it's not without flaws and there might be times that it can be abused, although I don't know how. However, it would switch out a major game issue with a minor one.
Right now, survivors feel like the have to run DS and BT just so they can play the game. If survivors could get those 2 perks baked it and at the same time, slow down gens (because killers feel like they have to run ruin), then maybe the game could be more fun for both sides.
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@mynameisBlade said:
The game is Survivor sided. Not sure why that is such a big pill to swallow.
Where is the proof? All the data is showing the opposite.
I think people have repeated "the game is survivor sided" enough, that people just believe it without questioning it.
Look at what we are seeing...
- The developers latest release of data is showing killers, on average, getting over 50% kills
- One of the most well respected streamers, Otz, who probably has the most knowledge of the game, just from the shear amount he plays, saying that Killer is fine.
- Several forum posters, including me and @KayTwoAyy, keeping independent track of games and seeing a Kill rate above 2 per match on average. (We did it while camping but camping is suppose to be weaker than playing the game normally). There's been other posters who have kept data and are showing about the same kill rate that @KayTwoAyy and I have seen.
- Tournaments, as mentioned by @ScottJund in his videos, showing that Killers were getting over a 2.0 kill rate.
I'm not saying this is definitive data but there is a lot of different sources all showing that the game is Killer sided. In fact, I'm not really seeing data saying the opposite. Just people saying, "The game is survivor sided".
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@logan2141 said:
I was on the exit and a survivor just run to the exit because of the stupid DEAD HARD INVULNERABILITY.
Same ######### with 360 hit
They arent avoiding the hits THEY ARE RECIEVING INENTIONALY THE HIT AND THATS SO STUPID...
YOU SUPPOST TO BE A KILLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In others matchs.
People are using TORCH to block person. you hit them, they heal fast and again block... as continuos loop.
and we can continue with more stupid op skills
Decisive strikes + Borrowed time = cant even hook because they do all engines fast.
Seriusly.
Do something with the game because playing now as a killer. It suck.
You must choose. But choose wisely, as a true education will allow you to communicate effectively and a false education will take it from you.
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@Entinaty said:
I just wanted to throw the question out there to start a discussion regarding old Ruin: Undying. With the controversy surrounding COH (Circle of Healing) at the moment regarding its level of power I just want to see if a return of the old Ruin: Undying would be a way to effectively balance the power of both boons and hexes.
Just interested in feedback regarding if it would be a good idea at this point in time.
As someone who plays Killer, no on old ruin. Old ruin would be a nerf from new ruin. It only works on new players and season players can easily hit those skill checks.
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@Pulsar said:
30 straight L's.
I quit playing Killer normally (because it's no longer fun whether I win or lose) so I decided to try to play Killers I have never played before in hopes that it would be a fresh experience.
Apparently, that was a mistake because I've lost 30 straight games while trying to learn Nurse.
Do the people making this game understand how ######### demoralizing it is to get clicked at, t-bagged and generally treated like a joke for thirty goddamn games? I had someone send me a TWITCH WHISPER to "learn how to play Killer gg baby Killer."
I had hoped that my MMR would lower enough to the point where I might get people on my skill level, but apparently not. I'm getting the exact same perk set-ups and the exact same people as my first games. It's not even that my MMR is high, I'm just BAD at Nurse because I've NEVER PLAYED HER BEFORE. I can't aim blinks and can't land hits and I'm never going to be able to because my games are ending before I get to learn ANYTHING.
Is this a rant/vent post? yes. Am I pissed? yes. Is this meant to be taken seriously? not really. Am I close to not being able to find any enjoyment in this game. also yes.
Come on. Nurse is hard is heck. Even brand new players are going to beat a Nurse that hasn't learned how to blink. You probably are facing new players.
Nurse is that hard. I've tried to play her too with 5 blinks and new players can run circles around me. That's nothing to do with MMR and everything to do with how hard she is to learn.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737108#Comment_2737108
Yeah, that's a lie. DH is extremely popular.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1BYAPZ21LL6A/dead-by-daylight-infographic-1274929.jpeg
Pinky Finger was dumb, but not broken. It needed a nerf, but the concept is fine.
Legion is the worst designed Killer.
And DH is stupidly good and everyone knows it.
It looks like Self-Care is the perk that needs nerfed since it's the number 1 used perk. It's so OP.
I think your chart right there shows you why a commonly used perk isn't a reason to nerf a perk.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
Since DS is very strong during the EGC i would disable it once the EGC starts, but make it available 2 times. So the killer has no free tunnel after he already tunneled you once.
Or a watered down Decisive Strike that is built into the survivor kit, but it stops working at EGC. Then you could bring the DS perk and have 2 Decisive Strikes.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735805#Comment_2735805
Fair enough. But I just had a game where one of the last two survivors standing was a Laurie, so I reconned that she 100% had DS. So I hooked her and the other survivor cautiously approached, kinda surrendering and I didnt attack her. Then she flashlighted me and unhooked Laurie :V Moments later everyone was down, that traiter went on the hook, and then we all waited for one full minute till I picked up Laurie, wasting three peoples time. Just a minute, but in this situation it was so pointless.
I really kinda hate how with meta perks you have to play like everyone has them. With DH, everyone gets a few seconds of extra chase, just in case they dash away, and in the cases where I have to tunnel I run after the unhooked person for 12s before downing them. It doesnt help that the survivor meta revolves around 6 or so perks, so you really have to always take meta into account, and I really find this taxing and boring.
There are killer tactics that have no counter to them except for a specific perk.
- Tunneling-off-hook - Decisive Strike
- Camping - Borrowed Time
- Insta-Downs - Dead Hard
- Slugging - Unbreakable (Although exponential can somewhat work.)
The first two, literally can make a game unplayable for a survivor. (I'm ignoring Dead Hard and Unbreakable in this discussion). Are the perks really "meta" when you, as a survivor, are forced to run them or end up not being able to play the game.
I mean, what can you do? Make those two perks inherent. Give all survivors some type of toned down version so they don't feel as if those 2 perks (DS and BT) are absolutely necessary. Add more perks that can counter Tunneling-off-hook and Camping. I don't know what the answer is.
But for game health, every tactic should have a counter tactic. And tactics that don't require perks should have counters that also shouldn't require perks.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Best change from the whole patch. I hope more players will play Pinhead now! I can't wait to hear all his voice lines.
Yes, thank you Devs.
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@Akumakaji said:
I understand that DS is sometimes needed to counter tunneling, but as always, a lot of players nowadays will use it sorta offensive, ie run circles around you and try to bait you into downing them.
I sometimes think that the 1min is pretty long, for it punishes even killers who don't tunnel, if the survivors misuse it, and on the contrary punish ALL survivors, because if I down someone 30s after they were unhooked or something, I will leave them slugged, because they could have DS, wasting everyone's time.
And there was one very frustrating situation, were the last survivor on the map was on the hook, unhooked himself via Deliverance, and I downed him. I had a bad feeling and didn't pick him up, but I had to hook him on the hook closest to the gate, so he crawled out. One meter before he got out I picked him up and got hit by the DS and he escaped, just like that.
I felt quite cheated out of a fairly won kill, but I mean, it sorta was his build, I guess, so I can't complain too much. Still, it felt pretty aweful seeing him crawl away with nothing that I could do about it.
I understand someone crawling out of the gate with DS as being frustrating.
However, because of how rampant camping/tunneling-off-hook-till-dead has become, it's common to have 1 or 2 games out of 5ish where you literally can't play the game without DS.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735599#Comment_2735599
That wasn't directed at you specifically, more a general reaction to this new wave of people recording results for a bunch of different reasons, as I noted (usually arguing for/against a specific perk/playstyle). No conspiracy here, I agree the sbmm is trash, actually (I don't think anyone honestly thinks it's working properly)
I really think at this point, the developers should start making the data public. It's obvious players want the data and it would clear up a lot of stuff on the forums.
I could care less about SBMMR as long as it's working. But I would love to see how often my team is escaping as a survivor and how many kills I'm making on average as killer.
Having to manual record every match is a pain, but if that's the only way I can see data... The developers should be giving us this data anyway. I mean it's not like we can't get it by just recording it ourselves.
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735481#Comment_2735481
So, I have 200 matches recorded on my own as survivor which show escape rates -- both for myself and for people on my "team" -- that are wildly different than either the OP's, or Pulsar's (mine are in the middle of the two of their results).
Care to explain -- without using a biased take -- which one of the three of ours are relevant and whose aren't then? How are the OP's numbers statistically significant, yet mine or Pulsar's aren't, and why?
I worked in a casino for a number of years. This debate reminds me of the people who would come to a roulette wheel, look at the board showing what numbers had hit already, and then betting certain numbers because they were able to "identify a trend" based on a handful of spins on record. That would pretty much work out for them the way rational people would assume it would (and is why casinos stay in business -- they're built on people who see numerical trends that simply aren't there or accurate and pay for it -- literally).
I don't know. That's why I think it's really curious that I'm consistently getting a certain number and other people are consistently getting something different.
I wonder if it's how the data is being gathered. Or if for whatever reason, it's treating specific people different, which seems odd.
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735442#Comment_2735442
The reason his data is different than the OP's -- and both are different than the results I'm seeing from my match results -- is again, sample size, which is ridiculously small considering the number of matches played of DBD daily.
The steam charts show that, on PC alone, over 45,000 were playing DBD 5 minutes ago. If we were to assume that there were NO console players playing the game at that time (which would obviously, not be the case), with 5 people per match, the rough estimate would be that thousands of separate matches were going on at that time, even if some or most of those players were simply sitting in lobbies at any given point in time in that short period. When you start adding in the console players, we're easily talking tens of thousands of matches a day. Statistically, using 100 random matches over any period is going to be such a small sample size -- we're talking literally fractions of fractions of a single percent (assuming all of those 100 were in a single day, and potentially matches numbering in the six-figures in that same period of time), that you simply cannot use it to "prove" any point. Whatever stats the devs throw out -- assuming they're using real data and not simply making things up on the fly -- will be far, far more accurate than anything ANY of us can come up with, even of we pooled all of our numbers together.
The OP's experiment is simply one person's brief snapshot of a much larger event that he (or Pulsar, or I, or you, or anyone here) simply do not have enough data to draw actual meaningful conclusions with. They're interesting to read what ONE person might be experiencing over what amounts to a brief snapshot in time, but statistically, they're not going to be necessarily representative of the complete, larger experience.
Actually, 100 games is statistically significant. It works the same way polling and scientific studies do. You don't need every single game, or even a large percentage of games data to be able to get a relatively accurate view of data.
For example, America has a population of 329 million, while polling sample sizes are only 500 to 1,000. Sample size does not need to be massive to get statistical data from.
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Wow, that's really weird. I recorded a lot of games (over 100 or so) and am consistently seeing what the OP posted. Also I've been keeping an eye on what other players are posts and they're pretty close to what OP is posting too, for kill rate.
Wonder what makes your data so different than everyone else. Also, I thought you played Killer?
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732864#Comment_2732864
But yet dead hard stays untouched when 9/10 survs use it.
Being used by a lot does not indicate it's overpowered.
It's used a lot because it does something other exhaustion perks don't. It lets you dodge insta-down abilities. No other perk allows that. Maybe if there were some other perks that allows players to counter insta-down abilities. Those would be used.
It's like Decisive Strike. There's no other perk that allows you to counter tunneling, except Decisive Strike.
Borrowed Time, there's no other perk that allows you to counter camping, except Borrowed Time.
These perks aren't "Meta", these perks are the only tools survivors have to counter certain things. Survivors are forced to run them, or they can't even play the game sometimes.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734011#Comment_2734011
Ok whatever, you're clearly not going to accept that your argument is rooted in a fallacy so idc about that anymore.
As for Pretty Lady Leatherface, what are you even talking about?
That skin could be seen as offensive to LGBT.
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@AshleyWB said:
Blight is offensive to the drug addict community.
NERF HIM AT ONCE
Yours sincerely
Bad Survivors
To be honest, you actually kind of have a point.