Moundshroud
Moundshroud
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@kyogul said:
I think the explanations as to why Dead Hard is such a busted and unfair perk is pretty simply explained, but yet you have some people who don't quite get it and think it's just simple to "bait it out" when that only works on bad players.
The problem with Dead Hard is that it's a ctrl+z command for survivors in an exhaustion perk, and is the only exhaustion perk that is all reward, no risk, and has exploitable i-frames. If you get outplayed at a chase by a killer, all you do as a survivor is press E to deny an instance where you would otherwise get downed and extend a chase for longer than it should have been because you got rewarded for being injured and received a quasi-third health state. In many instances where Dead Hard prevents you from being downed can be swapped with having Endurance from Mettle of Man. And you did nothing of substance or effort to get said Endurance effect either.
Why saying "JuST BaIt oUT DeAd HaRd" is ignorant:
Dead Hard for distance can't be baited out. You can't make someone use Dead Hard, let alone does baiting matter when there's a pallet or a window right in front of them. Baiting only works on ######### players.
Exploiting of i-frames:
You can Dead Hard to prevent from getting hit by exploiting its i-frames. Examples: Dead Harding through/into Punishment of the Damned (POTD). If you were to use Lithe or Sprint Burst and run into POTD, you'd get injured. If you used DH to get across POTD (or even to launch yourself in the same direction as it), you would prevent from getting hit.
Likewise, if I used Lithe or Sprint Burst and walked into a trap by Trapper or Hag, it would activate. If I Dead Hard over those traps, it would not activate. How is this not a busted perk?
Dead Hard is the only exhaustion perk that is all reward, no risk:
Every other exhaustion perk involves some sort of setup and/or exhaustion management. Dead Hard is available to you whenever you need it and you have no need to put effort into maintaining to get it.
Lithe involves setup. You can be in a dead zone where there is no vault near you, and even then there are times when you need to vault while being looped but fast vaulting in that specific instance would be a waste.
Balanced Landing is very hit or miss as there are many maps where there are not even elevated platforms. Even when you're in a chase you may not be near one, either.
Head On is...Head On.
Sprint Burst is very much, objectively, the strongest exhaustion perk in the game in terms of effects, but not in actuality because of how you have to maintain it. It's the most tedious exhaustion perk in the game to maintain as it overrides the normal running function. You have to be in constant management of your exhaustion in order to properly have it available when you need it.
Dead Hard is the only perk that involves no setup, no risk, but all reward. You get injured and you get a free third health state on command with no effort to use on your part. Congratulations you can now outplay your opponent because you pressed E on your keyboard.
Conclusion:
Dead Hard is so problematic because it's such a powerful perk and involves no effort on the survivor's part to use, and it feels cheap that when you outplay your opponent in a chase they instead outplay you not because of skill, but because they tapped a letter on their keyboard. Dead Hard can be compared to old DS in a way; anti-momentum, because many times it wastes so much of your time that you have to leave them alone.
Also side note:
Also to the people who say Dead Hard isn't a strong perk because "eXhaUsTed oN thE GRoUnD" and whatever other non sense, then why is it arguably one of the most used exhaustion perks in the game, and more specifically the most used exhaustion perk in red ranks (or in other words, the highest rank in the game) ? Why is it always included in meta builds? Do you think people run DS/Unbreakable/Borrowed Time but put on a "#########" exhaustion perk, or an inferior one compared to something else stronger they can use for shites and giggles?
Dead Hard is fine. You can bait it out, or you can FORCE it out. There really is no difference. You just keep chasing them until you are so close they don't have a choice but use it or get hit. Then you follow them and hit them, a few seconds later.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2104974#Comment_2104974
you said you've been waiting months for these key changes and they haven't come yet is my point.
Yeah... that is my point too. Maybe I need more caffeine.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2104928#Comment_2104928
keys weren't changed one bit. still easy as hell to get in the chests with all the chest perks survivors have now. and though hatch time has changed it doesn't change that they would not jump out till everyone getting out were right there and therefore the time change doesn't really affect keys.
I know? That is what I said isn't it? I said we have been waiting months... since the Mori nerf to see keys get adjusted. What did you think I said?
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@SammiieK1991 said:
Hey y'all... so I just recently played a match against Michael, and he seemed rather slower than usual to go against? I managed to easily get away from a chase and loop him a couple of times. Wondering as he's my favourite killer and my main?? I know his powers take some time to kick in, worried they're alot more slower than usual
Although the player did play well. And had given him a message to say "good game ❤" , even that being said he didn't sound too happy. Generally always try and praise the killer for the effort and battle of 4v1. X
He was probably carrying around Judith's Tombstone.
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I know right? We have been waiting months... since the Mori nerf... to see the damn keys get adjusted.
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The PTB starts today. You can avoid the Huntress stampede, using up their Iri Heads, by going and playing a week in the test phase.
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I'll let you know when it happens. I don't care enough about bloody cosmetics to waste all my invested BP. Prestige achievements don't matter to me. :)
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@Mishani said:
I don't understand the purpose of the new object of obsession changes. The main benefit compared to previous seems to be that you are able to deduce which aura perks the killer is running out, but this effect is redundant. If people want to be able to deduce a killer's aura perks, they will just run Distortion from Jeff. All this new object does is make it more difficult for the survivor to grab and hold a killer's attention throughout the match.
No, what it does is prevent the Object from abusing the power to relay the Killer's constant position to a SWF. :)
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2103275#Comment_2103275
I don't know if you've ever gone against deception gamers in a map with plenty of LoS blockers and pathing options, but suffice it to say that Lucky Break will will be even worse.
Tracking is too difficult already to have a perk interfere with it so heavily. Otherwise you get into situations where the killer has to give up because someone equipped a perk. Which is a game winner against my average team, because those 30 wasted seconds means the last gen is done.
That is a fair point. And since I play Spooky Myers MOST of the time, deception gamers are no harder for me to find than anyone else. In fact, I find them easier to catch because they foolishly hide rather than run in a straight line. What you are pointing out is that my own bias is showing through on the issue based on what I play. The change doesn't really affect me when I play Killer because I don't track that way. Hrm. I hate it when I miss something like that.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2103261#Comment_2103261
I mean, I have succesfully camped my devour hope on autohaven with Dying Light in a 3 gen with Pop because I just stood around the corner and they thought they were safe, then grabbed them, put them on a hook that was slightly outside of the range where I was camping to get the token, rinse, wash and repeat. I dont even remember what my 4th perk was. It was fully useless tho, as I just farmed Dying Light tokens while gaining Devour Hope tokens.
I havent really played him on the newer maps, because a lot of the reworked maps seem to have removed a lot of line of sight blockers that Spooky Myers relies on when getting closer. Bloodlodge used to be decent in terms of getting closer while hiding behind obstacles, but now its just an open map that shows you the killer on the opposite side of the maps. I mean, I might start doing it again as I have amassed 40+ scratched mirror addons and the map offerings I need are ironically the hardest part of getting the build I want to. Let alone that The Game has severely reduced the possibility of grabbing someone off a generator due to the lack of walls upstairs and generators downstairs either having a breakable wall or being moved slightly backwards so they can look around the corner.
I'm right there with you on that. I have a Scrooge McDuck vault full of swag (countless Purples and Reds) due to the fact that I played Myers exclusively as my Killer for so long until I could consistently hit Rank 1 with him every month. I built up more stuff than I could ever use.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2103275#Comment_2103275
It's going to be a hell of a lot easier to give the killer the slip when you make no scratch marks, have no blood, and make no noise. It also would work right off the hook.
This is going to effectively give survivors 90 seconds of invulnerability, assuming they are halfway decent at juking. This is worse than DS.
This is one of those rare times when my opinionated ego isn't sure. I'm not convinced that you guys are wrong; it may well be META. I just don't think is as good as you do. I think the PTB is going to be important on this one. I will certainly try it out as a Survivor and I'm sure I'll run into it quite a bit as a Killer. Full disclosure, my standard Survivor Build is:
Spine Chill, Iron Will, Calm Spirit, and (Perk of the Day)
*Does this new Lucky Break work PERFECTLY with my standard build? Yeah; it would. When I try it out for myself, I'm going to be honest. If I find it broke as hell, I'm going to tell them that. I don't want easy games. But speaking as someone who is a better evader than a looper, I just don't see it being as effective over the course of the match as you all do.
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@DoomedMind said:
It will be overpowered as hell. Even if it's single usage (because it is disable for the rest of the game after being activated, or am I wrong ?), 90 seconds is so massive !
So well, you can say "hit him, and go away for another surv, you won't have to deal with it later". You lost a little bit of your time (time that is very important at the beginning), go away, chase another survivor and... Same thing, Lucky Break. So what, you go away again ? For regular killers it would be a pain, but imagine for a freaking Nurse, how it would be impossible to deal with that perk.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2103225#Comment_2103225
Sure, the perk clearly needs a boost, we all agree about that, it's so bad. But this is not a reason to make it absolute top tier overpowered perk. It's ok to have / create powerful perk, but perks that have no counter or totally erasing a whole important part of gameplay ? That's not okay.
The duration has to be severely reduced, (4/6/8 seconds imo), with a 60s cooldown or single usage between each hook, or is enabled each time you unhook someone.
Hrm. I think a shorter time with a cooldown is actually MORE powerful than a single, long duration use. In application, I'm not constantly running. In fact, I get annoyed seeing everyone run every where, leaving trails for the Killer to pick up. I'd JUMP at the chance to take the Perk the way you are suggesting, because most of the time I evade get caught and hit, and manage to lose the Killer briefly. This would give me a huge leg up and be useable again and again. There is normally at least a minute before I get hit again. Do you see what I mean?
I'm not certain I would take the new Perk, even with the big boost, as a single use. I'm not sure I'd get enough return on it since I'm able to generally evade the Killer and DO NOT leave a scratch marks already simply by knowing when not to run.
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@MadLordJack said:
No, I don't think this is an okay change. Completely removing a killers ability to track you? You basically become undownable for the first two minutes of a trial.
And imagine in an indoor map. What the #########. Who thinks that's an okay idea? Who looks at the killers ability to track survivors and goes "well, that's too strong!"
<laughs> I'm usually more worried about Killers and you Survivors. :) *Well... not really... we aren't diametrically opposed that often. I guess we will see in the PTB shortly, but I'm not sure it will make that big a difference since:
- You have to get injured first, which means the Killer already has eyes on you.
- Then you have to give the Killer the slip with terrain and/or a successful mind game.
- Then you have to hope he doesn't find you by accident and/or have another way to track.
I agree that certain Players, evaders rather than loopers, will LOVE the change and go all in. I'm just not convinced it will be all that and a bag of chips. In the end, you still have to be good enough to make it work for you.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2103112#Comment_2103112
Yeah, my most used spooky myers is Devour Hope, Dying Light, Thanatophobia and Sloppy prior to the Thana changes. Now it's Devour, NOED(mainly movementspeed), Dying Light and either Thana or Sloppy depending on if I see medkits or toolboxes. I used to run PWYF a lot with it, but in quite a lot of cases, you dont really get enough value out of it and need to constantly restack stacks at your obsession, which takes away a lot of time. Instead I use Jewelry Box to increase my passive stalking speed as Boyfriends Memo doesnt really make that much of a difference in most cases. PWYF is nice for potential chases, but I rely more on the hit and run aspect on spooky myers.
"If I am playing Spooky without a map offering" which is the only reason I would use PWYF on myers, as on open maps you do need the added speed since you're almost always visible. Altho I personally like to use t3 myers with dead rabbit and dark devotion to gain a similar spooky effect while having an insane instadown lunge.
"Many people think this will put an end to the Basement Bubba. I disagree. If anything, the cellar dweller just got a little juice."
I agree with you, albeit for different reasons, for basement bubba to work properly, he would need to start revving when you're unhooking anyway, meaning BT triggers regardless and Bubba gains enough speed to chase the unhooked survivor up the stairs and hit them again before they can reach the window or pallet, unless they have dead hard or sprintburst ready(dead hard only working once since the pallet can only be dropped once). The BT change will mainly harm camping Freddies.
And yeah, considering No Mither is a perma broken status perk, Styptic Agent being able to be applied to him would be nice.
I agree with you that I don't really NEED the Play With Your Food when I'm in the smaller, select maps. However, I play Spooky MOST of the time and there is a pretty good probability my map will get blocked or beaten out by a different one. For that reason, I always take PWYF... just in case. :) I'll have to try your build out though.
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@ukenicky said:
Needless to say this perk is about to become incredibly good. No scratch marks or blood + Iron Will to make no grunts of pain = literally no way to track you.
Do you think this will truly become meta and be a serious problem, considering Lucky Break can't be used again for the rest of the match once it's activated and used up? Or nah?
I feel like the ability to just disappear is crazy but it is limited and they're reducing the duration of it so it can't be used multiple times in a trial but I'd like to hear other people's thoughts, especially killer mains.
It will certainly be better, but I don't think it will be broken. As it stands the Perk is pretty pointless now. Most Killers track by the scratch marks, not the blood. Two minutes of not leaving a blood trail before the Perk is inert for the rest of the game isn't the most useful thing. In short, the Perk clearly needed a boost.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
I mean, honestly, I hardly notice a difference.
He's now 4.0 when placing snares. Okay, so? Place a snare and no distance is lost still. Try to leave the tile? So what? You'll still die. It's like if a Demo with Rat Liver held his shred for a second and that magically let you reach the next tile. No, you'll just die. If you do reach the next tile, you could've done it anyway.
No BT immunity which is awesome. It was BS that he even had that.
Clocks are... meh. I mean, who cares? You'll still fall asleep passively, which makes the whole ordeal pointless.
No slowdown add-ons. I mean... cool? His add-ons weren't that strong to begin with, but i guess that prevents the stacking of those with slowdown perks which was less strong and more insufferable. Doesn't change the fact his add-ons are crap, but whatever.
Over all, he's still the same boring, simplistic, over-bloated killer that he was before. He's just worse at camping.
I don't know how impactful these changes will be. There are a LOT of them so I think commonsense dictates they will clearly affect his overall kill rate. With there being so many of them, affecting so many different aspects of his design, I am wary of making an projections; I don't think any would be accurate with this many variables. This is a case where I think we will just have to see what happens in the PTB.
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@SammiieK1991 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2102833#Comment_2102833
Oh okay so freedom of speech I see no longer exists... maybe just scroll past my comment then if it's not helpful? ... How's that sound? 🤷♀️
Honestly? You still sound like you are making a fool of yourself. This is a Forum, which means the moment you post here, your own comments are open to the same critiques and derision that you decided to broadside at others. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. As long as you keep saying silly things, I'm going to keep taking you apart, bit by bit, thread by thread. You and I don't know each other yet, but the night is young. I'm kind of like a snapping turtle; once my jaws are locked on something I'll die before I let go. Your assertion is wrong, and your delivery is rude. It has nothing redeeming in it.
You sound like an angry, wailing child standing in the middle of the room and demanding attention. You don't care if that attention is good or bad, only that you get it. Well congratulations; you have my rapt attention now. You didn't answer any of my assertions, such as the fact that most people here play both roles, and most people here are interested in fairness. You didn't answer them because you can't. What you are doing now is a well-known rhetorical gambit to try and play the victim. Nobody is telling you that you can't make a fool of yourself. I asked to "please" refrain from it, because otherwise I'm going to take you to task for it, over and over again. Let me point out why it is a winning strategy for you NOT to behave like a boor:
- You don't have to deal with people like me.
- You don't look ridiculous to everyone who reads your posts.
- Avoiding nonsense posts means people will pay attention to you when you do a good one.
- It makes you more likeable.
- For better or for worst, the delivery of your feedback or opinions improves their chances of winning people over.
I had a longer list, but I think these five alone should be bonus enough reason for anyone with half a brain to see the merit. But if you insist on continuing with your assertions, you will need to provide more support for them. Please clarify and support your wild, insulting comments. Can you?
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2102617#Comment_2102617
I mean, Spooky Myers is probably the only killer that needed a basekit counter to BT. If survivors are playing optimal, it's near impossible to hit them more than once. If there is any medkit or self-care on a survivor, you're not gonna catch them. Dying Light and Sloppy are one of my more used perks on Spooky Myers because it reduces healing speed significantly, and allows me more time to get a down on someone before all injured people are healed again.
And perks related to terror radius being a flat range kinda removes their purpose entirely. It would utterly destroy any use Dark Devotion has besides removing your TR.
Yes, I agree that Dark Devotion would clearly be an exception. In regards to Myers, I suspect we play Spooky very different. I never use Dying Light, and Sloppy rarely. I tend to use:
Play With Your Food, Corrupt Intervention, Ruin, & (Perk of the Day)
The Perk of the Day is for when I want to mix it up, I see a bunch of Keys or Flashlights and want to consider Franklin's Demise or Lightborn. If I am playing Spooky without a map offering (something I do all the time) I sometimes throw in NOED or Undying or Devour. A slow Spooky has to make up for extra ground which must be covered. However, I digress. When I play Spooky I don't care about Borrowed Time because I'm NEVER (let me repeat... NEVER) going after the person being unhooked. If I am going for the hook during the rescue attempt, I'm going for the grab by preference, and I'll take the hit on the rescuer otherwise.
At this point I now have two injured people to pursue and that suits me fine. I rather like the idea of Borrowed Time working the way they suggested because more people will go for rescues, and thus I can use the Honey Pot method more efficiently. There are always unintended consequences that come with any change. Consider:
Many people think this will put an end to the Basement Bubba. I disagree. If anything, the cellar dweller just got a little juice. Right now, nobody in their right mind goes down into the basement against a Bubba. They write that person off, and rush Generators (as well they should). Now there is going to be a situation where you can ensure that a least one of you will get out, i.e. it will become a "trade" of hooks rather than suicide. More people will go down in the basement and the cellar dweller will happily trade hooks. It is win/win for him. Fewer people rushing Generators is good. More hooks is good. I'm sure you see where this is going. And we can't rule out the fact that the Bubba might get the would-be rescuer before the unhook. The new Borrowed Time is just enough enticement that people will try.
The same holds true for a other Stealth Killers. Not all camp, but most do keep an eye on the hooks. Spooky Myers doesn't camp; he can't afford to, but he does keep an eye on the hook with his wall hack. He intercepts, i.e. hunts while he can and then moves to meet the rescuer when they reach the hook and make that grab. More people will be willing to make that rescue run, which in turn is better for Myers.
*Now I would love to see a change in the Styptic Agent so that the Add-on doesn't require you to be injured to use it. I think you should be able to use it healthy or hurt, and thus rescues where both Survivors have a little protection are possible with fewer logistical hurdles.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
Make unhooked survivors with BT lose collision.
I'm tired of getting bodyblocked by unhooked survivors with BT even though i'm trying to go for the unhooker.
I hadn't thought about this but I think you are probably right. Fair is fair, if the Killer can't down an unhooked Survivor for that short period of time, it is kind of odd that they can body block. :) I don't run into this problem often myself, but I can certainly see the potential you are talking about. *It is possible with the much shorter duration of the BT being suggested, that fewer Survivors would want to risk the body block and thus losing time for getting to minimum safe distance.
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@Surikato said:
not being able to see blood pools AND scratch marks is going to be meta plus Iron Will, killers who depends on visual and audio cues to detect survivors will litterarly give up on chases and maybe quit the trial xd
I think you are overestimating the value here; I disagree that it would go META. I think it would be popular with certain types of Players, Evaders rather than Loopers for example, but it certainly won't dominate the game. And Killers who quit trial in a huff over losing their prey, will get banned longer and longer. Such people choosing to stop playing (or being banned to the point they can't) will be no great loss. I don't care about immature Players who can't keep a check on their emotions. In regards to you other point, I disagree there as well. No Killer DEPENDS on visual and audio cues. You can (and many do) play the Spirit just fine already and are not relying on the scratch marks. Many of them don't run Stridor. More to the point, those few Killers that do benefit MORE from certain things are the minority, and nobody is going to load up on the Perk on the off chance that is who they pull.
If you want to talk about a Meta Survivor Perk, then we have to discuss Spine Chill. I don't leave home without it. The new Lucky Break doesn't even begin to approach the power level of Spine Chill. If that hasn't broken the game, I'm sure we will be alright with a slightly Luckier Break.
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@wuperbear said:
What about an unhooking perk that allows u to unhook from, um lets say 8m distance? It should only work once per game like unbreakable.
This takes up one precious perk slot and the only thing it counters is face camping. Allowing plays against face camping bubbas as well.
There is a LOT of potential for abuse with this. If such a thing were considered, the person who used the Perk should have their Aura revealed to the Killer for (10) seconds after doing so. *And it would have be stipulated that this Perk you are suggesting works in tandem with Borrowed Time. The once a game thing is not enough of a downside, it would need something like the Aura penalty above.
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Safe for the person being unhooked anyway, assuming you get them unhooked before being downed or grabbed (as others before me already pointed out). It is possible, if you already wounded and have a bottled of the Styptic Agent, to get a safe rescue for you both (assuming no grabs). It would give you both the Borrowed Time effect briefly.
By in large it is a good change and I hope it makes it through the play test and is implemented. I think the general rule of thumb should go across the board on lots of Perks (both Killer and Survivor) which keys on Terror Radius. I think flat range is better.
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@SammiieK1991 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2102607#Comment_2102607
Why don't we just take all the survivors objectives away 🤷♀️ there seems to be alot if killer fan boys on here recently that don't like anything a survivor does on this game. Gonna get to a point more and more people are gonna play less. Let's face it nothing a survivor is allowed to do now is there?
1. Fixing gens is a problem and causes DC after 2 go off.
2. Not allowed to save their team.
3. Anytime a gen is fixed its gen rushed. Bare in mind it takes 80 seconds to fix one (and couldn't go any slower if that tried)
Oh no.. the list goes on but I'd be here all day. Just play how you wanna play and that works both sides.
Posts like this are rather embarrassing. Please don't make a fool out of yourself with this nonsense, because I don't really want waste the time correcting you properly, but I will. Most people here play both Killer and Survivor. Most players are not annoying, whining people pushing forth an "us versus them" rant, nor looking to give an edge to one role or the other. Most of us are just interested in a good game. Your post is incorrect and not productive to this aim.
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I play Spooky Myers (Scratched Mirror + Boyfriend's Memo) and I was a strong advocate for this change. I think most Perks which key on Terror Radius should change to a flat range. I'm glad they changed this one because I found it silly that I invalidated BT entirely just by my build.
I think the new Trickster one, Star Struck, should also be based on range, not Terror Radius.
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I'm still not a fan of allowing people any control of when they sacrifice out; it is too easily abused. It my sincere hope that the first Skill check for 2nd Stage hook won't even trigger for at least (30) seconds, and then at least (15) more for the second. In that way, we don't leave an end run for those who want to DC within the rules and screw over their teammates. :)
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@DwightFairfield said:
DS was never a good anti tunnel perk, it was just abusable, and that made killers scared to chase recently unhooked survivors because they could be punished for it.
now it's not as abusable, so SWFs stopped using it as much, so killers don't have to worry about recently unhooked survivors BMing them as much as they used to.
it's not an issue with the perk, more of player mentality.
Exactly. What we need is a Bootcamp for Survivors which focuses on "definitions," "tactics," and the key importance of Safe Rescues, Protection Hits, tactical Hook trades, and so on. Killers aren't getting dirtier or statistically better. Survivors are just getting more self-involved and less interested in working as a team. The SWF have kind of DONE this to Solo. It is unfortunate, but true. Without a mindset and play style change by Survivors, they might as well buckle in and get ready for a very bumpy ride. It isn't the Killer driving the car though, it is them by committee.
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@jamally093 said:
Simple question what survivor perk is worse then No mither I want to know because to me No mither is completely useless but I want to know what everyone else thinks is the most useless perk.
No Mither exists, in its current horrible design, for two reasons:
- Complete annoying Dailies and Rifts.
- To give yourself a handicap, i.e. a Hard Mode.
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@GaryFookinKing said:
I think they need to come up with an intergrated mechanic to push people for going for multiple hooks, because as it stands tunneling is a viable strat and it sucks. This all stems from the DS nerf and the paradox that surrounds it, whilst the changes to the perk weren't bad the fact that less people because it's not as strong makes tunneling useful.
They have integrated mechanics, quite a few in fact. The chief ones are called:
- Looping
- Other Survivors
The major problem is this tendency to misidentify Tunneling. You aren't getting tunneled near as much as you think you are getting tunneled. For example:
- Killer returns to the hook and finds someone doing an unhook that has placed the hooked Survivor between themselves and the Killer. When the Killer runs up and hits you as you come off the hook, that isn't tunneling. That is an unsafe, stupid rescue where your teammate sandbagged you; the only question is whether it was on purpose or just due to being an idiot.
- The Killer suddenly runs into the person they just hooked and they are not at the hook. It could be anywhere, as close as the next tile or on the other side of the map. The Killer didn't follow you from the hook, they just ran right into you (or you into them). You aren't being tunneled. You are just unlucky or stupid.
- The Killer sees you on an objective or healing someone and runs up to hit you. You aren't being tunneled just because you were the one most recently on the hook. You are being hit because you are unlucky or stupid.
*I could go on for a LONG time detailing all these situations. Tunneling was defined as the Killer picking ONE Survivor and chasing them (almost exclusively) until dead. It didn't, traditionally, mean that anytime someone get chased or on the hook twice in a row. That is blaming the Killer for one's own bad luck, bad teammates, or stupidity. Basically, people use the term incorrectly constantly, and create a situation where EVERYTHING is Tunneling. Hell, I've been accused of Tunneling even when I hooked two other Survivors BEFORE I put the same person back on the hook. What was their justification? Hell if I know?
Most Killers simply take the the most convenient, easiest target that presents itself to them. If the Survivors do a poor job, and that is the exact person I did last time, that is on them. There are countless ways to avoid getting picked twice in a row and they mostly depend on Survivors, not the Killer.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2099007#Comment_2099007
You're confused, and haven't addressed anything I said so I'm not even sure why you're still responding. Tunneling can exceed 60 seconds, I don't see any comment that refutes that.
How exactly are YOU defining Tunneling? A lot of people seem to have gotten very broad in that interpretation.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2098403#Comment_2098403
I agree it needed a nerf because it was abused, and i never run it anyway because tunneling wasn´t that common, at least in the game i encountered. But since the nerf, tunneling is involved in more thatn 80% of games i play. So what now? Is one of us right and the other wrong, or is maybe the data sample for one player too small to make valid claims about anything?
But then a lot of surivovrs complain about a rise in tunneling, so maybe you are the exception, rather than the rule.
I don't think I'm the exception. I just work very hard to look at things pragmatically and without bias. I also record every game and statistically track what I and other people do. I know it is extremely nerdy and competitive. I can't figure out how to get better if I don't understand where "I" am going wrong. I don't believe it profits anyone to worry to much about what OTHER people are doing or how the game mechanics work. I don't have power over those things. I track them so I know what issues I need to be prepared for and how to tackle them.
I can't control how other people play, so I don't spend any time worrying about how asinine it might be to Tunnel, nor spend any time complaining about it over here. I don't have any power over whether or not a Killer chooses to Camp, Proxy Camp, Slug, Herd, 3-Gen the Survivors or Mori. The only thing I can do is be mentally prepared with my own tactics to do the best counter play I can. I find that approach far more productive.
So when I say that I haven't noticed any increase in Tunneling, it is based on the statistics I track myself. There hasn't been a significant, sustained increase. There was a slight bump right after the update because (and I'm making an educated guess here):
- Many people threw a hissy, stopped running DS in protest and thus there was no Obsession and the Killer knew.
- Many people couldn't break themselves of OLD habits and immediately tackled Objectives rather seeking safety.
- Killers like Wraith (Stealth) and Blight got a bump. Stealth do ambush/tunnel more, and Blight can be everywhere.
That statistical bump was not large, nor did it last more than a couple of days. I double checked my math and things are right about where they were before. The difference isn't in Killers Tunneling more, but that people keep saying it and creates a confirmation bias. People are paying attention more and calling everything Tunneling, even things they wouldn't have done just a few weeks ago. I've not been "lucky" as you put it. I play a lot of matches, and statistically I'm running into the same things everyone else is running into.
The truth is DS is not a dedicated anti-Tunnel Perk. There is no such thing. DS was created for the color and Theme of the original Halloween Chapter. It wasn't created with any tactical purpose in mind beyond exactly what it does. The tactical use (and abuse sometimes) was created and implemented by Players. BEhavior is glacially slow to change anything, and only do it when their long term numbers show an issue. They have been watching DS for a long time and it was clear to them (and us a long time before) that the Perk was not being used in a way they intended, nor in a way healthy for the game. They took away the ability to work objectives in the Killer's face. That's it. In so far as Tunneling goes, it works exactly as it did before. That is highlighting an issue, and it isn't one with DS.
So what happened? Survivors are, as almost always, the root cause of the issue. I play both Killer and Survivor. When I first started I played more Killer, but now I'm split about 50/50 and have been or sometime. There has been a cultural change (and I blame SWF largely) in the way Survivors interact and play the game. By in large, they don't take protection hits, do safe rescues, steal a chase, or trade hooks when strategic. When I first started, I was always seeing (regularly) other Survivors jump in and take hits DURING a chase which prevented me from getting a down. This would let the other person get away. They were particularly adept at doing this when someone had been recently hooked, or if someone was on death hook. The Survivors accepted that their own chances were better to get out if they did their best to keep everyone in the game.
It was never the job of the Killer to keep people around. It has always been the job of the Survivors to work together for this purpose, and not just doing Generators and healing one another. They should be intercepting chases, taking protection hits, and mixing it up in a way that prolongs the lifespan of all involved. And they USED to do that regularly. They don't anymore, at least not most. I feel it as a Killer and I experience it firsthand as a Survivor. The reason you feel like you are being Tunneled more is because you are on your own buddy. Your teammates are not going to be there to take that protection hit after unhooking you. They aren't sticking around to make sure that when the Killer returns to the hook they follow the fresh person. Do you see where I'm going with this? This is the result of a META change, not the Perk. You are only noticing it more because everyone wants to scapegoat the Perk.
To some degree (a large degree actually) this is the result of the damn SWF. A certain percentage of the older, more skilled Players have slipped away into SWF leaving Solo much weaker for the loss. What is more the 3-Person SWF tend to treat their "Red Shirt" Solo as a disposable asset. Not all Solos are aware they are in with a SWF. All they know is they are often left high and dry. The more that happens, the more Solo (even when not with a SWF) becomes an every guy/gal for him/herself situation. That is the change. It is a negative feedback loop and will only continue to get worse as Solo and Team continue in the same Que. I'm just being realistic, and I'm following the numbers. Solos can work together with amazing ability. It takes skilled veterans and trust to make that work. Both have been diluted.
In summary, the Tunneling is the same, you are just experiencing it different and more aware of it because of OTHER factors. And increased Tunneling is going to become a self fulfilling prophecy if everyone keeps accusing Killers of doing something that they aren't really doing. At some point, more and more of them are going to:
- Say, "If I'm going to do the time (everyone assumes I do it), I might as well do the crime.
- Start to believe the nonsense here that Tunneling is everywhere and the norm, and figure they might as well.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2098685#Comment_2098685
You need to get out more. This is one of the dumbest replies I've read in a long time. The only thing silly is the fact that you replied. Don't quote me with nonsense.
You you say so; me, I think if you need more than (60) seconds to slip the Killer, you clearly don't have the chops to slip the Killer.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/241051/the-ds-paradox-explained-to-everyone
The usefulness of DS has been reduced, and that's fine. However it's effectiveness at dealing with tunneling is still almost non-existent. The only kind of tunneling it can provide some relief is a very specific kind, specifically you have to go down and be picked up within 60 seconds and it's only good one time. So it doesn't matter if your tunnel exceeds 60 seconds, the killer slugs you, or on your second tunnel, the perk provides absolutely nothing under these common circumstances. The real issue with DS and why I think most people would try to get a redemption out of it, is because killers would often actually tunnel you but then go out of their way to circumvent getting struck. So it makes sense that survivors would go out of their way to get some utility out of the one-time use perk, when the very thing it is supposed to provide relief for was easily circumvented.
This is the silliest post I've read in a long time. If you haven't been picked up in (60) seconds, you weren't being tunneled.
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@PNgamer said:
Hello,
from this what ive seen atm.... i can say tunneling is absl. out of control atm. Give me a reason to support this game anymore if i cant have fun as a survivor. Maybe it is the best time to quit and play another game, cause it´s not fun to get tunneled every game
Happy Trails. For my part, I haven't noticed any increase in Tunneling whatsoever, just an increase in people using it as an excuse.
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@PsyQuil77 said:
Just had a match where 4 console people in lobby when I pop in as their babysitter/killer.
last second the Laurie switches to key. Red Flag 1
Offerings screen I see the 4 of them have offered up for hatch to be in shack and for the trial to be Ormand. Red Flag 2 and 3
I down the Laurie and EVERYONE comes out of the woodwork to body block my Doctor. Red Flag 4, 5, and 6.
I decided at that point to DC. Does that make me the bad guy?
BTW, I'm rank 15 and they are 5, 7, and two 4s, for added context.
Edit to add that I play for FUN not kills, and behavior like that is no fun at all to play against and is why I quit the game back when MM was the new killer. I came back less than 2 months ago.
Does this make you the bad guy? No. It does make you a bad sport and a violator of the rules. You didn't disconnect for an emergency, nor was your internet down. Sometimes you are going to pull hard matches. If you don't like the heat, stay out of the damn kitchen. Do I think you are bad guy? No. I don't think you belong in this game though, unless you can accept that sometimes it is going to be a slog, and sometimes you are going to get curb stomped. That game you ditched would have been invaluable to you. You learn more from the hard games (and losing games) than you do from victories. You were a very bad sport, and you wasted their time. Don't do this.
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@Beefmur said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096741#Comment_2096741
if you care so much about saving your time why are you wasting your time reading and responding to my thread? you couldve played 2 maybe 3 games with your time pretty self contradicting
Heh. I'm not the one complaining about losing 80 minutes. :) Let's cut to the chase shall we? After all the people here that have responded to you, pointed out your ability to have ended the match, and you directly admitting to us that you wouldn't give it up because you wanted that 4K, are you ready to admit that YOU are the reason it lasted a long time? This is your chance to man up, eat crow, and earn back some dignity here. You made this thread and stepped in it. You complained about a situation that you, yourself, created. You complained about a Survivor doing the EXACT same thing you were doing, i.e. trying to achieve one more objective. At a bare minimum, you both were equally to blame for the game lasting that long. In truth, we both know you had more control over it.
I'm giving you a chance to show us that you can rise above it and do one of the hardest things there is to do on the internet, give a mea culpa. Trust me, I know how hard it is to do. I had someone corner me in a situation not unlike this one, and I sat there staring at the screen with rage in my heart and the bile backing up in my throat. I was angry about being put in a box. I was even angrier because I knew the other person was right. So what is it to be?
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@Beefmur said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096724#Comment_2096724
idk if you knew this or not but ima enlighten you. Behaviour hasn't released what is considered a win. We wont go deeep into that because its a dark void. Point made if i consider a win to be a 4k then let me.
Sure. If that is what you consider a win, and nothing less... you be you. I'm still waiting for you to tell us what we were supposed to get out of your original post. What was the purpose of it? What were you trying to get across. That is not clear. Most of us, myself included, are making assumptions. We could be wrong. Please clarify your intention in creating this thread, whether you are proud or annoyed about the length of time it took, and who YOU think is responsible for the length of the match?
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@Beefmur said:
YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH just hook the kate and get the 3k when the only guy ive been wanted is crouch walking for ######### 80 minutes
Yeah, pretty much. Let me put it in more self serving terms if that will help you understand the point many of us are trying to get across. A 3K is a Killer win. The amount of Blood Points, Emblem Advancement, and Pips you waived by losing the 5-10 additional matches you COULD HAVE PLAYED had you ended the game is a net loss for you. Do you see where I'm going with this? I'm sure getting that 4K after OVER investing in that match did come with some satisfaction, but you didn't do yourself any favors in so far as playing DbD.
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@Beefmur said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096658#Comment_2096658
your opinion is very interesting send me the rest of your gameplay rules for me to play around so i can satisfy you to maximum efficiency
My rules are for me. I am commenting on what YOU told us and seem to imply you didn't like. If you didn't want your match to go for (80) minutes you had several things you could do to accelerate it. But then again, I have no idea what you wanted out of your game. That isn't clear in your post either. I can't tell if you are annoyed, amused, or proud of the match going that long. I'm just saying if you wanted it to go faster, you had ways to speed it up (just like they did). I'm saying that if you knew where the hatch was (due to a known bug) why are you proudly telling us how you took advantage of it? It is sketchy and I'm sure helped lengthen your match. I mean, do whatever the heck floats your boat, but did you honestly think telling us about it would make you look good?
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@Beefmur said:
killed 2 people after this ######### went down. they did 2 gens. There was a Kate and a Felix. I chased the Kate until she gave up and emotionally broke. She went afk, I had her on my back she was my back buddy.
I found the hatch before it spawned in with blight rush bug. I sat on it with hex ruin, surveillance, undying, and tinkerer. They cleansed both totems. Felix 75% 3 gens and I went to go kick them. He never touched them ever again he hid. I tried letting the Kate go and following her to see if she'd bring me to Felix as I haven't seen him yet and he hasn't been hooked. She was literally a lima bean. She never brought me to him. After she pissed me off enough I put her back on my back and sat on the hatch that has yet to be spawned.
I then went to go play Mario kart 8 while waiting for tinkerer to proc. It never did, I played 4 Mario kart 8 circuits and if you were wondering I got 1st for 3 of the 4 circuits (200cc). I got bored of Mario kart and this fiend hasn't done one generator. I go watch some YouTube on my phone while I wait. 20 minutes have past no gens. At this point I was devoted to winning.
I dropped the Kate had her bleedout ontop of the not even spawned hatch closed it instantly and zoomed back and forth to the exit gates. I finally found the Felix once I found him I let him get up just so I could hit him again. After doing this like 4 times I dragged his useless cheeks to a corner and let the timer kill him.
OUTPLAYED SUPERIOR GAMER
I want to preface my comments with a statement that I don't care what you do in your games. I'm not sure what value we would take from this thread. I've been around long enough to know that even you are being totally honest, you aren't giving us an accurate picture. You are only telling us what you saw and think. By default, that is going to be a bit biased. Even if I were to accept your version as 100% accurate, there is plenty of blame to go around in this game, in so far as it lasting a LONG time.
- You should have killed the Kate right away.
- If you already knew where the hatch was due to that idiotic bug, camping it was kind of sketchy.
- If they got themselves (or you pushed them) into a 3-Gen situation, it is likely the felt they couldn't beat a Blight.
They, like you, decided to try and wait the other half out. I expect they did try a little bit, but probably no more than you did. For all you know, they were also playing another game or watching videos on the side. So what is your point? Are you proud of this game? Are you angry at the Survivors? Do you just find this to be a funny, entertaining story (it isn't). I just don't know what you want us to take away from this thread.
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My favorite Killer Perk is: Play With Your Food
My favorite Survivor Perk is: Spine Chill
*Context is that as a Survivor I seem to be a Stealth Killer magnet, I get them more often than not. As a Killer, I main Myers, and the Spooky Myers build at that. This means I'm dreadfully slow. Play With Your Food helps me break even. The weird thing is when I play other Killers I feel like the Flash at 115%. Even 110% feels like flying to someone who is 105% most of the game. Everyone was down on the Trickster and I was like, "he felt pretty peppy to me."
Least Favorite Survivor Perk: No Mither (why trick new Players into using garbage?)
Least Favorite Killer Perk: I don't know, I don't use anything I don't like long enough to rate them.
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
Im not just talking about survivors and it being a crutch. I have seen so many killers who brought NOED and would have done better if they just had like a regression perk or info perk instead. NOED is harmful in a lot of situation and frustrating to go against. I really want either a major rework or just it to be removed entirely.
As other people have already pointed out to you, not all Killers start with a handy dandy "regression" Perk. Pop is a Clown Perk, Ruin is a Hag Perk, Surge is a Demo Perk, and Oppression is Twins Perk. There are others but those are the big ones (and the Demo one isn't exactly huge). If you were reading carefully, there are no generic regression Perks, so unless you like one of those Killers enough or get lucky on the Shrine, you are having to fight with zero regression and a very limited Perk arsenal. :)
New Killers take NOED because it is one of the first strong Perks offered to them. Sloppy Butcher is arguably the other really good one they get access to early. A lot of people seem to be chiming in recently, wanting to be helpful to those poor new Killers; I find that kind of funny. You don't care about those Killers; be honest. This is just another inventive way to try and deal with a Perk you don't like OUTSIDE the match. If you really wanted to help those new Killers, you would be offering advice on how to use NOED effectively, because there are VERY effective ways to implement it that new Killers don't really understand yet (fortunately for you).
My advice to anyone who wants to "help" new Killers is simple:
- Don't Tea-Bag at the exit gates.
- Don't give them salt for doing their objectives.
- In fact, give them a "Good Game" even when they toast you.
- Do Bones if you want to encourage them, politely, to not use NOED (I assure you that is more effective).
- Don't put in maps which you know (everyone knows) are distinctively Survivor-sided (Haddonfield for example).
- Don't try to work with the Killer (or pretend to work with them).
- Run a variety of Perks (rather than just Meta) so both sides get to experiment without being rolled.
- Keep self-serving "advice" to yourself. Give advice that only helps them if you are honest.
- Don't disconnect the second you get downed, screwing over everyone (Killer and other Survivors).
- Don't suicide on the Hook because you are frustrated, screwing over everyone (Killer and other Survivors).
These things will help new Killers. Suspect advice on Perks you don't truly understand does not. Moreover, it helps to play both Killer and Survivor both before you start laying out your wisdom.
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@LeeONE said:
So here's the story, my friend recently bought DBD to play with me, so I was playing with him on low ranks(20-~12)
We played 54 games for now, but I'm already have some info
NOED was equipped 47 times, the rest of killers didn't even had 4 perks, so basically every killer with high level used NOED
39 killers that used NOED was camping/proxy-camping the hooked person
5 gens were repaired in 46 games
In 43 games killer kept chasing me for 5(or rest) gens, other 10 he switched, and in 1 I died.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm also asked my friend to play 15 games alone, here's some info:
NOED was equipped 14 games
5 gens were repaired only in 3 games
___________________________________________________________________________________________
I don't know what to say, most of the time killers can't even use NOED, but they are still equipping it for some reason. While I was playing with my friend the reason 5 gens were repaired is that killer was chasing me, and my teammates actually was repairing gens because they had nothing else to do
So why, why everybody uses NOED? There's just no point
P.S I am not proud of destroying low rank killers, but I can't avoid it
Heh. You have to realize there is some info that you aren't taking into account. Newbie Killers don't have a lot of different Perk choices. NOED is one of the very first ones the Blood Web give them (remember it is Generic). Many of the generic Killer Perks aren't exactly vicious. Thus, you see Killers who don't really have much skill yet just taking the strongest Perk they can. The fact that you are destroying them isn't because they are using NOED, it is because they are just new Killers. I assure you that once Killers know the game, with or without NOED they are quite effective. But more importantly, they have a broader selection of Perks to apply and eventually gravitate to those that reinforce their personal play style strengths.
NOED does get used in the Red Ranks too; the difference is the Killers who use it there are very calculating and have a specific reason to choose it. They aren't just taking it because the don't have something better to do. :)
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@darlazon said:
When I'm on someone getting off hook, even if I am pretty sure they don't have Decisive or Borrowed Time, I will let them go in favor of uninjured, unhooked survivor. And in the endgame I will purposely leave hooked survivors because I will feel like a dick for camping them. Am I being too nice? Am I handicapping myself?
Yes, you are handicapping yourself. There is no "Killer Etiquette" also called "The Survivor's Handbook for Killers." You are free to apply whatever personal rules you want to yourself. I sometimes do for the extra challenge of it, particularly when matchmaking has thrown me people who should NOT be in the ring with me. However, I'm going to state clearly and directly that you should play to win. Get good first; you should learn to be the best you can be before you start holding yourself back. If you don't even know how to play yet, not really, how can you correctly judge how to handicap yourself. The only things you should be doing are:
- Don't cheat, either by hack or lag spike.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
That is the only real etiquette Killers and Survivors are expected to do, and satisfying these three things makes you a good sport. All that other stuff is personal choice, and don't let anyone grief or peer pressure you into choosing you to play that way. You make that call yourself, when you are ready. That is my advice.
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
Okay so heres a thought: Lets imagine for a moment that u had like a direct wire to the devs and could determine 3 things but 3 things only that get fixed immidiately and then the next fixes will be in like half a year. What would be the three most pressing issues for you that u need fixed this second in DBD?
- Splitting Solo and Teams into different Ques.
- Changing the Lobby so both the Killers and Survivors only see shadow figures and no names till end of match.
- Improve Anti-Hacking (and banning of hackers) technology in the game.
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@DevilsmamaJo said:
So I'm a 50 year old mom. All the 'friends' that I make on DBD seem to be around 17. I feel ancient and a little bit weird hanging out with the teens 🤣🤣🤣
Nope, I'm older than you. :)
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094052#Comment_2094052
What? You’re trying to be rude to him when in the end you basically agreed with what he said and somehow argued with yourself.
You clearly just said that he can’t control what somebody else does so there’s no point trying. But you also said to him to that there’s plenty that can be done by his team mates to save from camping. Do you see the contradiction here or would you like me to lay it out in layman’s terms for you?
And you honestly think there isn’t much tunnelling and camping in high ranks? You must be deluded or never play high rank survivor. Did you watch any of the Botb tourney, they’re meant to be the best players in the world and they were constantly camping and tunnelling.
No, I'm not being rude to him. I'm pointing out the "mindset" where he still feels he is being screwed over by other people. That is not the way to approach the game.
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@gilgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2093722#Comment_2093722
I disagree with the amount of people that complain about swf lets be honest those swf que times would be hours for survivors and the solo que would be hours for killers
I doubt it, and we won't know until we try. :) Either way SWF is a problem and will have to be addressed and so far they are batting ZERO in dealing with it.
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@papichulo said:
Should I report a 3 man swf as unsportsmanlike for putting me last and their teammates first and making me die on purpose with no equality at all so they can use me as a "diversion" for the killer while they power exit gates and do gens?
One of the reasons I believe Solo and Team should be two different Ques (one of many reasons) is the fact that 3-Person SWF use the Red Shirt as a disposable asset. This treatment has destroyed a lot of teamwork and sense of community among the Solo crew. I'd rather play with four other Solo than a SWF. They are worse than the Killer.
But sadly... no... as unsportsmanlike as that behavior is... it isn't reportable.
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@TicTac said:
Everything at zero. All characters at level 1, no shards, no cosmetics, no bloodpoints, etc.
I want to switch from Ps4 to PC. But without crossprogression i would lose everything. Over 2000 hours. So i probably will still play on ps4 and quit when i dont use my ps4 anymore. So i would want to know what you would do if you would be forced to start from zero?
I take screenshots periodically to show what I have in my Scrooge McDuck Fault as well as what Perks I have. I heard the horror stories of people sometimes losing everything and in this way I have something to show BEhavior so they can put it back.
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@Renfear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2093666#Comment_2093666
Relatively new? That's a really patronizing thing to say. The idea that because you, as a survivor, can control how you play, therefore if someone else screws you over, it's actually your fault is also not correct. I'm talking about solo queue where you can absolutely get matched up with people that don't know what they're doing and completely sandbag you.
Sure, camping and tunneling aren't against the rules, but they're not fun to play against. It's like MTG against a deck that just counters everything you do. It's a legit strategy but nobody enjoys playing with you when you do that. Going into a match to play in such a way that you know nobody else is going to enjoy is kind of a ######### thing to do. If it's MTG, I can decide to not play against someone who I know uses decks like that is a choice I can make. I have no control over who I get matched against.
To demonstrate, I kind of want to get a swf together, and everyone hides in lockers with head on. Just waiting. Move before you get birds. Kick the killer in the face if they get close. Do you think you'd have fun in a match where you're just getting head oned the entire time? No, you won't. But if you complain about people being toxic, well you just gotta get good, right? The killer isn't going to have fun. And survivors who go into the match with the specific intent of screwing their killer over, then they're kind of being jerks. That kind of attitude is problematic in both roles.
Patronizing or not, it is accurate. I didn't expect you to listen to the advice, nobody ever does at first. I'm just telling you what you need to know to get ahead. You are in your own way until you change your mindset. You are not going to get better as long as you believe that it is other people (or the game) that are screwing you over or causing your issues. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong about it, because there is NOTHING you can do about the nature of the game or how other people play. The only thing you have power over is yourself.