MechWarrior3
MechWarrior3
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@Neaxolotl said:
There is no penalty in having tapes, and tapes doesn't protect anyone from condemn
Basically she has been completely dumbed down and pretty much lost any power she had
Facts. It’s really sad and pittyful. I’ve been trying for months and months for behavior to see this. Sadako is easier than ever to counter.
Directional lullabies from her, auras on all TVs, static visuals for survivors, no punishment for cursed tapes or slowdowns.
It’s awful. You said it perfectly my friend
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My lobbies lately have been tons of flashlights with flashbangs and good ole blastmine.
I got nuked yesterday 🤣 kicked the gen. Blast mine..once I could see flashbang lol.Then 2 powerful beams from flashlights lol 🤣
I am most certainly using light borne
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I’m surprised @GeneralV hasnt caught wind of this thread yet. 🤣
He can smell a Freddy post a mile away lol
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@Dreamnomad said:
80 seconds might be too long but 45 sounds too short. I think 60 seconds would be the sweet spot.
I would agree with this. Same with thrilling tremors.
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@GeneralV said:
Not sure if those are the changes I would suggest, but I agree Wesker needs a nerf. For a killer with hyper mobility, his kit has way too much.
I would agree.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ATB7Z0SQAELK/cmwaqc2.png
They had so easy job with Trickster and Twins. Pig too in my opinion. Somehow they managed to screw it.
I think Sadako and Skull merchant are more difficult topics, but solvable.
I 100 agree my friend, 💯
That pic is too funny! 😂
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@StereoGang said:
You already made a thread today asking for Wesker nerfs... Do you ask for nerf each time you loose a game ?
💀💀 I’m dead. 😵
You make a valid point 🤔
Back to the OG post. There are ways to counter it -
@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698033#Comment_3698033
I'm referring to his strength against highly coordinated players he's 100% viable in your average match
To be fair that’s 90% of the roster. They or you should be concerned when it’s a very coordinated swf.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698212#Comment_3698212
Yeah I'd put the tape return back to 2s, reduce or remove TV auras unless you're holding one, bring back passive condemned in some form and maybe remove the lock in limit. There's dozens of little changes you could do to her but it's hard when some folks only want to force condemned kills.
it’s easier than ever to counter her condemn. Survivors are practically having their handheld to make it happen. If they bring back passive condemn on tapes, I don’t care about the one second tape insertion or the hook limit we currently have.
if they take away the hook limitation you can leave the one second tape insertion, I think I am a very reasonable person, and I’m not asking for all these changes to happen, but there is no counter currently that’s where I draw an issue especially with how many flaws I have pointed out with videos on the forums
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@Ohyakno said:
I dunno. I think sadako 3.0 is better than 1.0, but not by much. 2.0 was a disaster. She just needs further tweaks imo.
I wouldn’t mind 3.0 but she need tweaks for sure.
There are way too many flaws. -
@SoGo said:
I don't think there should be 5 variants.
agreed 💯
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@Bafugaboo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693081#Comment_3693081
It oddly always happens to me at that pivotal moment of guaranteed 4K. Either I am downing the last survivor or just slammed the hatch shut.
same. It’s so annoying
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/410759/more-monster-killers
I GREW UP WITH WAR OF THE MONSTERS
YOU JUST HIT ME WITH A NOLSTAGA BOMB
seriously!! 😍😍😍 I loved that game!
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@fussy said:
Hi! I've been writing this post for about a month, remembering and writing down all the changes from every part of the game I would like to see. Despite this, I definitely forgot to write something down here. There are no killers/addons changes here, because this post would be 2 times bigger.
Overall:- P100 now rewarded with red background to character, unic banner with this character, unic profile avatar and unic head piece / weapon.
- BP cap increased to 10m.
- You can spent bloodpoint faster: now you can spent 1m BPs with one button/click, also you can choose addons/items which entity will ignore if possible.
- Entity shop: Too many addons/offerings you don't like to use? Bring it back for Entity for 50% of its price.
- Survivors now have common Bloodweb. All items and addons were summarized and now available to every survivor. (Prestige will also increase on the survivor on which you run bloodweb, 1m bp spent = 1 prestige)
- Utility Rating System. Long story short: system, which will track how useful survivor is during the match, MMR will be based on URS.
- Advanced personal statistic in profile.
- I don't know how, but make game more hook oriented than kill oriented
- Custom games: free camera mode. (It's surprising to me devs don't want to help content creators make more cool content). I think there are a lot of things you can do with customs, but let's start with this.
- Now game will have 3 chapters in year instead of 4. This time will invested into game health and more interesting and elaborated chapters.
- More PTB during the year with more bold ideas to test them. There is a time for it now.
- More maps adjustment. Amount of pallets should always be somewhere near average. Not like 8 pallets in 1 match and 15 in another on the same map. (Hawkins should be deleted or reworked from the ground)
Mechanics:- Boons now take 10 seconds to bless them (28 sec to bless Hex). Killers now brake totem when snuff it.
As active boon user, i laugh everytime i read "boons are trash". CoH is still game changer perk sometimes, Exponential extremely powerful (if not broken) in SWF, Shadowstep can be super annoying, especially on indoor maps. So idea in making Boons more rewarding in a way to decrease time to bless them, but add more counterplay to them for killer. I believe, it's win-win. - Hexes now take 28 seconds to brake. Progress bar while braking totem will reset only by half of the current progress, instead of completely resetting if breaking is stopped.
Idea behind that is making Hexes at least time wasters. Nobody runs Hexes because of how inconsistent they are, but now they at least will take some noticeable time to brake it. To not make impossible to brake them, progress bar will lose only half when survivor interrupted or stops breaking it. Don't apply on Boons. - Scourge hooks. Now their amount depends on how many SH perk you will bring into match. 1 perk - 4 hooks, 2 - 5, 3 - 6, 4 - 7 hooks.
I also don't love Shooks because of how inconsistent they are. You can easily get 0 value from these perks if rng is unlucky for you. This change is intended to make SHooks more consistent and rewarding if you decide to base the entire build on them. - Maps offering no longer have 100% of chance. Now it provides 25% chance to get on realm for killer and survivor, 10% for SWF.
Alternative change: map offering now decrease chance to get on realm on 100%. - Luck: now also provide a chance to find an item into locker. Works only once in trial (or with 5 min cd), max rarity is Vary Rare. Default chance is 1%. (Chance is calculated when opening the locker, so an item cannot appear there if it has already been opened by someone before)
SURVIVORS:
- List of teammates' perks on ESC button in a match. No way it will be in lobby, we will search matches for ages than. (Seems like they already took a first step to it on last PTB)
- Survivors now have only 1 attempt of self-unhooking, it will take 10% of hook stage progress bar. Luck increased to 6%. (Soft answer on hook suicide)
- Kindred basekit without killer's aura. It will be strong buff, but have no idea why solos can't have the same info as SWF already has for free. Maybe can be disabled in 10 meters near the hook to not help SWF with easy saves.
- AFC progress added on HUD to all survivors.
- Bleed out option: increase bleed out speed x4. Available only when all survivors are in dying state and when only 2 survivors left.
- SWF nerf: you can't bring same perks and items while playing in SWF. SWF already ignore half of the game aspects with free info, so get good, if you can't play without 4 Adrens, 4 Resi, 4 DS and 4 DH, bully killers with 4 flashlight, bring 4 Syringes and Styptics or just end game in 3 minutes with 4 toolboxes. (they probably will never do this, i understand, but anyway, it's just my wish)
- Shortcuts/wheel with phrases, same as on mobile. "I will go on save", "Let me heal you", "We need focus on gens" and etc. My decisive NO to voice chat in game, but my even more decisive YES to this, should be in a game long long time ago.
- 2 new emotes from mobile version
- Basekit BT: buffed to 15 seconds.
Items:
- Broken Key: now always show your aura to teammates in 32 meters near you, if key has charges. Increased to 15 seconds of use.
- Blood Amber key addon: nerfed to 16 meters and increase depletion rate by 200%.
- Commodious toolbox now has 24 charges and 25% repair speed.
Perks:- Background Player: reverted to pre-buff.
- Emphatic Connection: buff healing to 30%.
- Boon: Dark Theory: added +6% to vault speed.
- Inner Strength: added - heal 1 health state only for first bless of boon.
- Low Profile: timer removed, but perk will be deactivated if in 60 seconds since it started work no one will be healed to injured state / unhooked, to prevent "i bring perk to throw all my team" scenarios. This restriction doesn't work in 1v1 at endgame, it will endless.
- Adren: no more heals you from injured state, only from dying state. Provides permanent 2% Haste and remove all negative status effects after all gens done. +50% Haste after last gen now 5 seconds again.
- Hope: now permanent 5% after all gens done. Added: you get 7% Haste for 5 seconds after every gen done.
- Visionary: distance condition removed, now map wide.
- Distortion: now recharge tokens for being in chase.
- No Mither: added permanent 2% haste bonus while injured. You start match with full health and get Broken status after 1st hit.
- Head On: show auras of lockers in 32 meters from teammate in chase. (I'm afraid of this buff as killer, probably should also have 60 sec of Exhaustion)
- Lucky Break: timer stops while any healing action
- Rockie Spirit: added: survivor with this perk needs to repair 50% less to stop regression (after 2,5 sec instead of 5)
- This Is not Happening: added: additional 1% to any progress after hitting great skill cheks.
- Windows oO: range decreased to 24 meters. Will make no difference in chase, but will make planing of loop chaining slightly harder.
- Bite the Bullet: added: hide your aura while self-healing.
- Better Together: buffed range to 64 meters.
- Repressed Alliance: added: now also can open blocked generator after 45 seconds of repairing. You can only choose between block and unblock once per use.
- Buckle Up: now works only after 5 seconds of constant healing. To prevent FTP+BU combo, but to leave it still viable and more situational combo.
- Boon: Illumination: added: also show auras of survivors and exit gates outside of boon range.
- Resurgence: also removes all negatives effects after unhooking (except broken status ofc)
- Poised: no scratch mark and pools of blood after for 12 sec if you are in 20 meters from just poped gen
KILLERS:- 30 sec of Corrupt in start of the matches.
- New alternative strategy to promote no tunneling gameplay. I don't think it's possible to get rid of tunneling completely without killing the game, but i believe that it's possible to make tunneling not the only strategy if you play to win. Long story short: i think it should be some stackable buffs for killers / debuffs for survivors for every UNIC hooks, which will be completely disappear in tunnel situation. For example: +2-3% speed for every unic hook outside of chase, -5-8% too all actions (breaking pallet, gen, vaults) for every unic hook, etc. There is a massive field for brainstorm.
- Mangled timer reverted. Haemorrhage timer also reverted, but now it deplete 100% of health state in 60 seconds (nerf).
- Blindness: added: survivor with Blindness also can't see killer's red stain.
Killers perks variety in awful state. No wonder why every game is 4 game slowdown: chase perks are borderline useless and we keep nerfing it somehow, Hexes are super inconsistent, info perks are denied infinitely by one perk and anti-healing perks are nothing by joke, especially after completely pointless Magled/Haem nerf. There are also no good common perks for beginner killers left except Spies from the Shadow.
Perks:- Brutal: now 30%.
- Enduring: now works on pallet saves as well
- Fire Up: +6% (or even 7%) for every gen, now also works on opening lockers.
- Predator: now also shows scratch marks that were left within 2 seconds after survivors stopped running.
- Agitation: buffed to 4,4m/s.
- Thana: now 4%+4%+4%+(4%+4%)
- Tinkerer: now could work on a gen another time, if gen regressed for 30 seconds in a row.
- Dying Light: buffs for obsession removed, buffed to 3,5% for every hook. (PLEEEEEEEASEEEEEE)
- STBFL: reverted. Now doesn't work in 10 meters near hooked survivor.
- SH: Hangman's Trick: Range increased to 24 meters. (Maybe 20 with my SH suggestion above)
- I'm All Ears: now can work every 30 seconds. (I want 20 sec so much, but it probably will be op on some killers)
- Thrilling Tremor: cool-down removed. (I mean, if survivors give to killer downs faster than once per minute, it's on them)
- Gearhead: added sound notification when aura is revealed.
- Dragon's Grip: cool-down decreased to 45-60 seconds.
- Eruption: since it eats stacks of new mechanic, buffed to 15% to worth it.
- Oppression: cool-down decreased to 40 sec. (Not sure if it should have CD at all with new gen system)
- Overbrine: both buffed to 150%.
- Dissolution: buffed to 25-30 sec.
UW: You start with 1 token. Earn 1 token for every hook. 20 sec of action.(PTB rework is okish i guess)- Forced Hesitation: 20% Hindered in 24 meters for 12 sec. Unhooked survivor has 10 seconds immunity after unhook.
- Whispers: now works similar to Spine Chill: The closer survivor is, more perk scale is filled. No more works on hooked survivor (Back in the days when i started to play DBD on mobile, this perk had this effect on the screen, but it never was the case on main game)
- Leverage: 30 sec timer removed, now permanent.
- Game Afoot: 10% for 10 seconds.
- Superior Anatomy: now 75%. (This perk has one job, and it can't do it well lol)
- Hex: Two Can Play: blind survivor for 3 seconds.
- Hex: Plaything: added downside: breaking progress will be the same if stop cleanse totem, works on all hex totems in a match. (this change will apply only with my Hexes change above)
- Alien Instinct: added: 5% Haste on 20 sec after hooking, disable when chase starts.
- Undone: added: Great skill checks now also give tokens.
- Hex: Ruin: now 150%
- Bloodhound: added: make survivors steps 50% louder
- Machine Learning: after damaging generator, completing this gen will give you 10% haste and 30 sec of undetectable. Apply on every damaged gen, but this effect renew after every gen done, so you need to kick gens again to make it works.
- Zanshin Tactics: added: after down a survivor, all pallets and windows will be blocked by Entity in 24 meters for 20 seconds.
Thank you if you read this far. I will be glad to read your thoughts.
I enjoy this post and I agree with most of it 😌☺️
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This too! I hope they address it if they can. It’s very frustrating. Such a time waster.
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@Wiggles_Diggles said:
I have had to take a break from Hux for a while. Love the kit but it is genuinely exhausting to play with, the cameras not scanning when I can see almost the entire survivor, how inconsistent placing Bipods can be, and all of the effort of tagging someone can be undone in mid chase with no downside is infuriating and how redaliabalible emps are. I love this killer but right now it just dosnt seem like the effort I put into a match as Hux is rewarded.
I totally can relate, I have a prestige 24 singularity, and the frustration with this character is insane.
He definitely needs some quality of life changes for sure, it shouldn’t be this complicated, his power and kit is perfect but some touchup on his power would be great again just quality of life, not a rework behavior! -
@Blueberry said:
Totally agree.
Changes to fix her:
- Ring Drawing base kit - This rewards and incentivizes hooking. Just make it work when you hook a survivor period.
- Unlimited lock in - If they're greedy they should be punished for it
- Destroy tapes on hit - This has dual purpose. One it prevents the scenario in the video above where they deposit the tape in your face and it also creates dynamic and skilled game play as now after you break someones tape you'll have to make immediate decisions. Should I continue chase because I built his condemn high and I want to lock him in or should I go for that other guy to break his tape because I don't want him to drop stacks. This raises the skill ceiling.
This isn't even going into her addons that are a total mess but she at least needs this other stuff for her base kit to function.
You said it perfectly.
I would agree with all this. This would at least make the condemn mechanic viable slow down again there’s no way to counter survivors that put videotapes inside the TV, at least this would give me something to work with.
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Not really. I don’t run into this issue very often.
Buddy.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697160#Comment_3697160
They most often do... In my nearly 3k hours they backflipped in like 90% of cases..
must be nice. In my 2.5k hours of play they don’t.
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@Archol123 said:
Thats a proper skill issue on the killer side... The counterplay is fairly easy.. You wait until they finish the heal and hit them, they backflip and get further away from the exit... And you repeat that until you can either down someone else and pick them up or get the pickup on the already downed survivor.
They don’t always backflip and that’s not a real counter to be fair.
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It doesn’t matter how the killer plays. At the end of the day, as long as they’re dead, that’s all the killer cares about.
Didn’t you say he hooked all you guys at the end after he slugged you?
Sounds like to me he played in his own strategy and still did the objective he just didn’t play how you wanted him to play… Respectfully -
Also agreed. I noticed this too.
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@Blueberry said:
Well even ignoring the multitude of anti slug perks that could have made a serious difference in this, y'all made many mistakes.
Yeeeaaaaahh…..agreed. I saw MANY mistakes made ontop of no anti slug perks equipped. 0. Out of 16 perks not a 1? Uuuuufff….
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696651#Comment_3696651
what about current limit doesn't allow you to punish current greedy survivors? hooking a survivor a single time changes the threshold from 7/7 to 4/7.
For example, if you hook someone with 4 stack of condemn, 3/4 means only 1 stack can be cleansed. In my opinion, condemn lock doesn't make a difference right now because of this exact interaction shown by MechWarrior3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8HLaYwvbts
Survivor don't have to worry about their condemn because as long they have a tape, they can just do tapes right in your face. The only way to actually get condemn kills is to lock in 6 stacks of condemn because anything else results in this interaction.
Furthermore, if survivor are shutting down TV's collectively in spread out open maps, there is virtually 0 condemn build-up. So the fact I can lock condemn is meaningless if i build 0 condemn anyway. you can watch Cammy's video on Sadako on Father Chapel to illustrate that.
well said my friend, I like this post. I agree 💯.
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That would be nice :)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
the whole point of condemn is to kill people with no hooks. this was going to be nothing mechanic from the start.
If there wasn’t a limit on it, it wouldn’t be so bad, but it’s meaningless and pointless with the limitation. However, of course you and I have had many discussions and I am on the same page.
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”She is glorified pyramid head now.”
That’s exactly right and that’s what I don’t like. I love pyramid head but I want sadako to be unique and she should be.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696092#Comment_3696092
If we’re trying to fix this current version though, we can’t be requiring hooks for it to function. This defeats the entire point of the
power. A mori is irrelevant if they’re dead on hook anyway. Not wasting time on pick up, walk, hook, is what gave her time efficiency back. Bring back destroying tapes on hit, that gives Sadako some control of her power.She is glorified pyramid head now. You can mori survivors on death hook. amazing. the dev are just really anti-slugging. If a killer is slugging, they just punished killer or attempt to neuter the killer's slugging capacity. They even attempted to neuter Twin's slugging.
The dev that designs these killers almost doesn't seem like same dev that balances them.
The goal of killer design on every chapter should be, “how do we make this killer a unique experience to play as and against”. This is how you make dbd feel like it has different game modes when it doesn’t and prevent people from getting bored. They currently have way, way too many killers that play as and against exactly the same with a different coat of paint. That’s bad design.
Slugging killer are unique design. That is why we need erase them and make them all into hook designs so you can enjoy your different coat of paint!
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696182#Comment_3696182
Also agree we don’t need 20 killers that play the same. Pig is one good example like you said, she was unique. You played around her traps and now she is just another killer with anti-loop and some stealth.
I didn’t think the tape destruction on hit or slugging was an issue because it was balanced out by the fact of her having limited map mobility, being an m1 with no anti loop, and not getting the jump on anyone because her stealth doesn’t really exist. So “just” getting an m1 hit on people to lose a tape or slug them took high skill in the first place as she has nothing going for her to accomplish this.
I also don‘t think both things were that problematic, it‘s not like downing someone is easy with Sadako. Also not many people actually slugged back then, most of them did actually chase and hook and took the condemned kill when they got it. My problems when playing as 2.0 were only that survivors constantly turned off all my TVs and the cooldown after each tp. Now we still got the problem, but much worse and her power gets shut down all the time. It doesn‘t really help much having her tp cooldown removed again when you got nothing to tp to. When playing against 2.0 I did not like that she non stop teleported without thinking and the 2stacks per hit often snowballed me out. Like I got a tape hit, I took the next tape and again hit until you got morid.
that’s fair, I definitely agree with you, and I understand certain killers are harder to balance and others, but there’s so much feedback that we are giving them, these are all things that can be tested, they’re great ideas. None of it has to live until we are sure it’s the right solution. That’s how it should be for all killers, making the right healthy solution for each killer so that the counter is fair on both sides
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696111#Comment_3696111
We could also go the route of making her anti loop and stealth significantly better to compensate rather than making her condemn play style good again. My issue with this though is that then it’s again making just “another” anti loop killer or another killer with stealth, this isn’t unique. Her condemn play style makes for a unique match experience for both sides, not just another copy/paste of every other killer. This is essentially what happened to Pig.
I didn’t think the tape destruction on hit or slugging was an issue because it was balanced out by the fact of her having limited map mobility, being an m1 with no anti loop, and not getting the jump on anyone because her stealth doesn’t really exist. So “just” getting an m1 hit on people to lose a tape or slug them took high skill in the first place as she has nothing going for her to accomplish this.
The goal of killer design on every chapter should be, “how do we make this killer a unique experience to play as and against”. This is how you make dbd feel like it has different game modes when it doesn’t and prevent people from getting bored. They currently have way, way too many killers that play as and against exactly the same with a different coat of paint. That’s bad design. Many of these reworks are making more killers the same and removing their uniqueness instead of going the other way because people refuse to learn and adapt.
Exactly my friend! You said it perfectly!
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This is another very valid point, I honestly forget this is even a mechanic. I don’t see the point in this mechanic if it has a limit.
With that being said, ring drawing needs to be base kit if they want to keep this mechanic and make it function.this whole 3.0 version is just a mess….
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696024#Comment_3696024
Sure there will always be games that go south quickly. It’s possible to be checkmated in 3-5 moves too doesn’t mean they should ban the queen from moving for 5 turns.
It kinda goes to show even when you fix a problem, what happens is people just move the bar for that problem and continue to complain.
Well I wasn’t here when the bar was short, I joined in the last year so yeah I will complain a bit I guess being new compared to the vets here. I’m being pitted against players who’ve played for years on end, my matches end in 4 and a half minutes. It’s not fun for me when that happens, but then survivors get mad when I run all generator slow downs or have to start tunneling because 3 gens popped in my first 40 second chase lol
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@p4p444 said:
My idea is: The skull merchant no longer has 4 drones, now she only has 1 drone and can release it like Victor.
The drone has a usage time of 45/60 seconds (can be increased with addons)
The reason it only lasts 45/60 seconds is so that you cannot infinitely block the exit doors.
The drone fires and needs to hit 5/6 shots at the survivor to injure/incapacitate him (the amount of shots needed can be reduced with addons and can also apply different statuses)
When shooting, the drone reduces its movement speed and turning speed (keep in mind that it has the same speed as Victor)
The drone can be disarmed by survivors if they find it and the skull merchant is not using it, it can also be destroyed by hitting it with pallets.
When the drone is destroyed or runs out of time, return to the skull merchant and you have 15 seconds to launch it again (time can also be reduced with addons)
The different addons give the drone improvements such as increasing its use time, movement speed when shooting, inflicting different states, reduce the number of shots needed to wound a survivor, be able to see nearby auras and even make the survivor vulnerable if a certain number of shots are hit.
You must already assume that rework is like having a victor with trickster skills. Well yes, this is my idea to change to the skull merchant.
Thank you for reading this far and I would like to read what you think of this rework or what changes you would implement. See you in the fog.
hmm…well she currently gets 6 drones not 4.
Giving her one drone sounds like we are nuking her power not a rework.
You have to shoot the survivor 5 or 6 times before they are injured or downed when victor can attack you once?
Then she still is a M1 killer and has nothing else to help her in chase or gain intel.
If I understood your idea 💡 properly. Not exactly a fan of it though. -
@Blueberry said:
Yeah poor Sadako got left in the dumpster, she’s so bad right now. I personally think 2.0 version was perfect, it just needed some small tweaks for lower mmr players like showing the tv auras close by to help them find them, that’s it.
If we’re trying to fix this current version though, we can’t be requiring hooks for it to function. This defeats the entire point of the power. A mori is irrelevant if they’re dead on hook anyway. Not wasting time on pick up, walk, hook, is what gave her time efficiency back. Bring back destroying tapes on hit, that gives Sadako some control of her power.
If we’re trying to force hooking, bring back unlimited lock in. So whatever they’re at on one hook is locked in. Also, Ring Drawing needs to be base kit with this. Again destroy tapes on hit too. I still think requiring hooking is counterintuitive to her fundamental condemn design though.
As you already said, people saying her condemn is only for slow down is flawed thinking. If it’s just supposed to be passive slow down in the background then her entire power is a teleport that survivors can control? That’s it?
I say that’s it because her “anti loop” if we wanna call it that is a joke. It does basically nothing for loops. Her “stealth” also isn’t even a real stealth since it has a lullaby. She has nothing else.
This is so true. I totally get where you are coming from, truly. I hope behavior makes some healthy changes. I don’t feel 3.0 was thought through fully. I feel it was rushed.
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@YayC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693694#Comment_3693694
The issue is other killer interactions usually aren't half the killers power AND aren't immediate when they are. Right now OTR and DS give the survivor 80-60s of pure, free cleansing. With this in mind, the only counter to this would be to as I said, hard tunnel people off the hook. This creates a situation where it's in your best interest to assume players are running these perks and play in the most unfun way possible. I want to create and environment where playing in the least fun way possible isn't actively encouraged by the game design.
Ahhh I see your point of view, that makes sense. I would agree.
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@YayC said:
- With the first example the only counter is to keep them injured that way you can reliably counter it. However, the perk used to do that (sloppy) just got nerfed for literally no reason which makes this absolutely infuriating lmao. 2.0's best feature was tape break on hit, without even considering the condemn stacking it was my favourite change purely because it added counterplay to this stupid interaction.
- To be fair you weren't pathing super efficient in this situation and if you did I think you actually get the hit. HOWEVER, I thoroughly believe this addon was made during development at a time when demanifesting didn't slow Sadako down because the slowdown you get while demanifesting is really what makes this addon truly worthless even if you get it to proc.
- The same as issue 1. For more detail on why this is a problem. Pushing condemn in 3.0 Sadako is very difficult (literally impossible vs decent survivors). Spending multiple minutes min maxing everything you possibly can for it to be removed by an uncounterable situation is beyond ridiculous when other killer will have multiple hook states in the time it takes you to build condemn. The only downside is you take a hit. Other killers grab survivors off interactions with their power, why can't Sadako?
- Honestly the Lullaby isn't the biggest issue. The issue is the Lullaby is directional and demanifesting is the loudest thing on the planet AND the undetectable does not last long enough to try and sneak up by demanifesting early. Killers like wraith have the ability to make their bell silent or map wide with addons, why wasn't this made an addon with iri tape rather than turning it into a joke of an addon? I shouldn't need to run perks like unforeseen to make my STEALTH KILLER stealthy…
- VCR actually used to be very good because it would give you some stealth by scaring survivors and giving them misinformation. Now with the aura's it is completely useless as you say. I honestly don't know how this can be fixed with TV aura. Just another situation where BHVR massively change her kit with 0 regards for addons (her rarest ones might I add).
- Tape editting deck IMO has always been pretty bad. But what they did to our iri tape is unacceptable. This was an addon that was the strongest in her deck since release so most of us spend millions of BP farming these addons. Then they made it useless in 3.0 so we not only have wasted millions of BP, but now we have a bunch of these lying around doing nothing. It's not even a healthy addon, it encourages you to use it to hard tunnel people of the hook by TP'ing between the hooked survivor and a different TV and either proxy camp them to death or catch out any teammate trying to unhook.
As I explained in my own post outlining how bad she is, Sadako right now is a joke. You only win if the survivors don't know what they are doing and even though I have won most of my matches as her since 3.0 drawing only 2 times, this isn't down to my skill. It's down to me working out which survivors don't know her power and getting them out early or when they all know it, tunnelling the weakest survivor out. This isn't fun, this isn't interactive, this isn't why I enjoy playing Sadako. No-one wants to play the power role where their power is entirely dictated by the other role. Likewise vs Sadako I have a near 100% escape rate and have literally never gotten over 4 stacks of condemn. The condemn lock which was meant to be a main mechanic of 3.0 is completely pointless since you can only lock in 3 stacks per hook and by the time you've gotten their condemn locked to any meaningful amount they are 2nd stage so you might aswell just hook them anyway and get your perks value like pop.
3.0 is so close to being great, but they just kept adding more and more and more counters to a killer who didn't need it because their base power already got nerfed. She was reworked in 1.0 because she was too weak and the counterplay to her power when used in the only viable way is too boring. 2.0 was reworked because OG Sadako's wanted more of the macro back and now we have more macro than ever while being weaker than ever.
I genuinely believe that Sadako in her current state is the weakest killer in the game, the only reason people think she is half passable is because they simply don't understand just how much power you have as a survivor vs her.
I would also agree, thank you for your time and taking the time to view my thread my friend.
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@jonifire said:
You pretty much show the problems perfectly. My main problem with her starts with her design. 2.0 and 3.0 both encourage survivors to always turn off TVs, where in 1.0 you shouldn‘t interact with TVs at least not that much. In 2.0 you at least didn‘t loose the condemned power (only teleport) and in 3.0 you lose your condemned and teleport power. In 1.0 you had both powers available almost always, shure she had long Tv cooldowns, but she had addons to manage that and her condemned was also not that bad (but it could have gotten some buffs like increasing it to 24m or making it based around the proximity 0-8m 2stacks; 8-16m 1stack; 16-24m 0,5 stacks). Now you basically play her only as M1 without power most of the time, because most survivors shut down all her TVs. On the other side she is a monster in stomping inexperienced survivors, who ignore her counterplay/don‘t know it, which in my opinion is a bad design. Her tp became bad in chase, because survivor see exactly where you teleport and run in the opposite direction. This leaves you even when survivors didn‘t turn off the TV with an ineffective teleport. Also when playing against her she lost all the horror by the TV auras (without them you didn‘t know from where she would come). I really enjoyed playing against and as 1.0.
Her current addons are in my opinion almost all weak. She had good ones, but they all got deleted or became outdated, this makes me sad.😔
Videotape copy got a good new effect
Newspaper was always good, but I don‘t understand why she has one addon that does make her flicker better in demanifest and in manifest like Newspaper and reikos watch could be one addon for both parts.
Mother‘s mirror does what it is supposed to do, I guess it‘s ok, when I would change something, I would hide the red stain in general while she flickers in manifest.
Cabin sign and well stone aren‘t really worth bringing since her TVs no longer have long cooldowns. If both would make TVs turn on faster in general, instead of only after your tp or after survivors turned them off, they could be a bit useful with a number buff (you don‘t really feel that they do anything). Or maybe they should get new effects.
Yoichis fishing net: I don‘t really feel whether it does anything. I would want the old effect back that it gives passive condemned faster if we get or 1.0 version back or that this addon makes that tapes give passive condemned, so that survivors don‘t hoard tapes.
Sea soaked cloth and rickety pinwheel are both outdated, it was okey as people didn‘t turn off TVs, but now you get nothing from them. First of all they need a bigger range. I would say make it the range of condemned and maybe merge them.
Reikos watch should get its old 50% back even tho the base flicker got buffed and like it said above I don‘t understand why we have an addon for demanifest flicker and manifest flicker, this should be one addon for both parts
Clumb of hair: I can‘t say whether it makes a difference/ does something impactful, but this is a cool unique addon, which could be good with a big number buff.
Well water is good
Bloody fingernails is her best addon, please don‘t nerf it
Mothers Clumb it‘s good, but I don‘t like it
VCR became useless, because of the TV auras!
Distorted photo is okey. I like that there is written you have to „witness a manifestation“ even tho this addon becomes worse by that. If it would get the telephone effect with 6% hindered it would be good.
Telephone: Move the effect to distorted photo or buff it significantly or new effect.
Tape editing deck is outdated and was only good with passive condemned (since 2.0 useless)
Remote control is good
Iri tape is not worth it being an iri. I like the idea, but this should be a grey meme addon, where you get more blood points. Just bring back old iri videotape, which turned 4 TVs back on by hitting a survivor. I know this would probably be too strong in this version, but if you go back to 1.0 please bring it back.
Ring drawing is terrible after the deletion of its old healing gives condemned effect. Either bring back healing a injured survivor gives commend or make it an iri addon and make that healing in general gives one stack. The OG ring drawing would be worthy an iri addon.
New addons ideas:
- phasing through survivors gives Sadako haste or makes them exposed or gives condemned. This would be a fun addon.
- shorter switching time between demanifest and manifest
- A global condemned addon for those, who liked Sadako 2.0
I wish we would get her OG mechanics back, I think this was the fairest/most fun version for both sides and she only needed the buffs and QOL changes from the reworks.
To archive that I would change some of the addons back (iri tape/ ring drawing/ reikos watch/yoichis fishing net) and some parts while keeping the other changes from the reworks:
- passive condemned through tapes (every 25s 1stack)
- Tv auras removed. I would only show survivors the one TV where they have deposit their tape. It‘s frustrating when they know where you are, before you even crawl out the TV
- Only one TV gives condemned. To buff condemned I would increase the range where you get condemned to 24m or make it based around the proximity 0-8m 2stacks; 8-16m 1 stack; 16-24m 0,5 stacks
- Remove that you can turn of TVs, while holding a tape by getting one stack
Another problem is her lullaby, which makes her stealth very bad since you introduced the visual terror radius. Before this was introduced most didn‘t even noticed it, I didn‘t notice it either. The best way to deal with it (even tho it might be a bit unfair for people who can‘t hear) would be to remove it from the visuel heartbeat.
well said my friend, I would agree 💯
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693391#Comment_3693391
you are allowed to. Just making the point that the original concept of gen rush is thing of the past and what most people call gen rush now is just game play.
That’s fair and I get that, it just doesn’t always feel that way when I have recorded matches that end in 4 1/2 minutes because all the generators are done.
Even with me, hooking people left and right -
@Archol123 said:
Enduring is great so you can teleport faster after getting stunned. Rapid Brutality is great because faster ms during your overclock is always nice. And then you can use x amount of regression perks.
thanks! I’ll try it! Enduring, rapid, dead lock and pop?
Or should I do pain res? I hate not having dead lock on because when 2 gens pop at the same time….no here’s what we’re not gonna do lol
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Thank you for your detailed thoughts my friend :)
Not sure why your post went through so many times. lol
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@Turbs said:
That's a pretty good summary of a few things troubling this killer. The interaction time being 1 second was a very vocal outcry ignored in the PTB. The amount of times I'd have a survivor insert the tape in the middle of a chase is just absurd.
If we're going to talk about addons, then might as well make ourselves a list here to overview what works and doesn't. This would be my own observations on the addons so please do include your own thoughts on anything here.
Videotape Copy (Grey) - An extra 2m range on Projection stacks is just really solid for a cheap addon. Not much else to say.
Old Newspaper (Grey) - Slightly longer invisibility after manifesting to make it last about a full second. It's okay. Fills the role of a grey addon.
Mother's Mirror (Grey) - Longer intermittent visibility duration after manifesting by a full two seconds. Pairs good with Old Newspaper or Well Water for mind games around pallets and loops.
Cabin Sign (Grey) - Effectively 10% off the TV cooldown to turn back on after teleporting to them. I know this is a grey addon, but it's honestly quite terrible. Going from 45 seconds to 40.5 just isn't worth even the grey addon when you will have a ton of yellow and green ones to use instead. I think 9 seconds being shaved off would be pretty good.
Rickety pinwheel and sea soaked cloth has much as I like the idea of TVs debuffing ppl, it punishes her for tping due to shutting off effects.
Distorted photo is ok, but you have to have some witness you within 16 meters.
mother mirror isn’t good to me personally because why use that when you can use newspaper since that’ll likely help you get your down faster. -
@Blueberry said:
Dredge is actually one of my main killers I play a lot. However he only needs a few QoL changes.
-More lockers/better placement. Some painful are so bad because of limited lockers and bad placement of lockers.
-Boat Key and Haddies Calendar need to be base kit. The teleport mid chase is just way, way too slow base kit to where these addons are basically required for this play style and even then it’s too slow if the survivors are good. This is the biggest change they need. As long as these aren’t base kit the other addons don’t matter to me.
-He’s too loud. Survivors can pin his exact location even behind walls. Tone it down. At least during Nightfall.
-Too much info given to survivors on locker teleporting. It’s already so ridiculously slow to exit lockers that the hang of entering them is unnecessary.
-Fix the bug that’s existed since their release of forcing you to always go to the locked locker. Super annoying.
The main reason many people don’t play Dredge is because of the map dependency of how so bad many maps are for lockers and how survivors have such overly easy control of their teleporting power with the lockers. People would find them way more enjoyable if teleporting mid chase for mind games was more viable.
exactly my friend! I tried to get into dredge when I first started playing this game while I was also learning how to play onyro, I really struggled with him, I really think he needs like you mentioned the quality of life changes, at least for me before I start again.
I probably won’t keep learning how to play him until they add these, I’m already dealing a lot with my own plate of stuff
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@BugReporterOnly said:
If I move away from them I should see them I'm sick of them going into me and making me loose them. If anyone gets in my face like that you bet I bloody see them IRL.
True 🤣🤣
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@ChaosWam said:
Pretty much sums up my current issues with Sadako as well. Some things feel nicer, but others feel way too easy when facing her. I tend to only get Mori's because survivors somehow still ignore tapes and attempt to pop gens ASAP ignoring their condemned build up until it's too late and they've got a ton of locked-in stacks. Otherwise, survivors who barely interact with them keep themselves cleansed while denying a lot of map pressure at the same time.
I wouldn't mind this, if the stealth weren't hard-countered by the lullaby radius. I've seen people say the lullaby should be bigger, which is a good argument against removing it for further mindgame potential. However, making it bigger promotes easier hiding as well, unless the survivor is in a deadzone so I would have to experience it personally to see which would be a better alternative. Map wide is also a very good alternative.
RIP VCR builds though, used to be my favorite mindgame. Alternatively, it'd be nice if the VCR hid all TV auras for 4-5 seconds every teleport.
I would hundred percent agree my friend! Your words also some of my experiences as well. I would love to see some tweaks to her stealth honestly…. Among a few other things.
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I know they have a lot on their play but I really hope that they make some adjustments to her. I feel bad that I have been posting as much as I have on the forms lately but it’s because I’m so passionate about her and I know several people that really enjoyed this killer that had been having issues.
I don’t want other people to suffer like I have.
I was hoping behavior would be be able to see the feedback of videos I created for them to see why she is so weak. Doubtful but I thought it would be helpful -
@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694890#Comment_3694890
I agree that maps should have more locker spawns, but holding a remnant should have a slowdown attached to it as it already is a solid anti loop tool that basically forces survivors to leave the loop if the dredge player isn't offensively incompetent. If dredge could just hold a remnant and chase at full speed that would leave the survivors with no real options.
That’s fair but maybe make it a little faster but still a slowdown cause it feels too slow. lol. In my humble opinion.
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You think they would be posting here if they didn’t “look” for them?
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Careful what you wish for asking for any type of rework. Behavior might change him completely like with other killers. 😅
Dredge needs some QOL changes for sure.More locker spawns.
No slow down when using remnant.
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It’s trash 🗑️
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694693#Comment_3694693
I just wanted to say with that, that she got much rarer in my survivor rounds after the first rework. That does not mean it was the same for you.
That would make it less annoying for Sadako, but I think it would make this killer too strong. I don‘t see how you want to balance her second version and remove the problems I said. She will either be too strong or useless.
I think the best way would be to give her a global condemned addon and return her to the first version.
That would be nice. 😊
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693970#Comment_3693970
The problem of TVs being turned off would still be the same.
Skitten explains it perfect.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693999#Comment_3693999
The good point of 1.0 was that turning off TVs was not encouraged. I can assure you most people did not play her for condemned back then, because I was a survivor main at that time. Her pick rate decreased drastically after the rework. Before 1 of 10games I saw one Sadako→ after rework 1 of 20 games.
Also 1.0 had counterplay, you could either turn of TVs in advance like now, but get 1 stack every 25s → 4 stacks after finishing the gen. Fair trade, she could still interrupt you. Or you could take a tape and remove stacks. They were not supposed to be taken as a shield.
The problem of the reworks is that she looses two powers by survivors turning off TVs and I think both reworks are really unfair. First rework very unfair for survivors and there were little they could do. The second rework actively stombs and targets noobs and is miserable for Sadako against any decent player.That’s why I love 1.0 so much. We need it back with todays buffs and QOL.