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Clump of Hair should also be reducing the lullaby that she has. It really hurts her "stealth" since people can tell when she's getting near quite easily.
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I'd have thought that a survivor would rather see the builds of their fellow teammates to make solo queue better than try and hide their items from the killer before a match. The only real thing that a killer can take away from the lobby screen like that is to equip Lightborn against a full flashlight squad.
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If you are getting injured by the first hit, then you should be having a speed boost good enough to run out of range from a second or at least be quick enough to avoid it. If you are getting hit multiple times by his power, then I would recommend trying to get some more practice in avoiding them. We're on day one so this stuff needs time to pass for people to get more used to the killer on either side.
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This is basically asking for a basekit Decisive Strike that doesn't have a skill check, duration, or any downsides.
If this ever becomes a thing, the game will die. Straight up.
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I shared my thoughts on this elsewhere, but I would like to give them again here as well.
While the concerns for a split queue are valid, the actual performance on either side doesn't seem nearly as bad as when the 2v8 stuff was going on. Things seem decently fast in regular and map showcase for this one at least to my own personal experience.
If they had a survey for each map at the end of the week, they could get some player thoughts on each map and get some data on what the general map balance may be like and what would need improved. Aside from that, it really does allow me to better practice in these maps and try out loadouts that are more dependent on what I go into. When playing survivor, I was going against much more varied killers.
And there is the aspect of the achievements being easier to target during these times. Much more opportunities to give an attempt at repairing those key gens as someone mentioned before. Much better than relying on map offerings that drain my pocket of BP.
Ormond Lake Mine was a really strong one. Just not as looking forward to swamp maps if they ever become a showcase…
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@Skeleton23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034239#Comment_4034239
I have autism so thats why the spelling is a bit bad
Tsk tsk, mister. I'm just seeing excuses here. On the hook you go.
Next time, stop missing so many skill checks when working on a post.
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034537#Comment_4034537
I read it all and must say its an amazing write up. Well done. :) We'd be here all day if we went back and forth like this, so I'll touch on a few things I'd personally just like to resolve my curiosity.
Playing to win the game is not playing to ruin the game for others
I don't think people who play to win are trying to be a jerk. I think they're just playing to win like they want. Nothing inherently wrong with that. But there is a by product (And this is a BHVR issue) that makes the game feel less like a game. People play games to enjoy it. If there is nothing but [tunnel/camp/slug/genrush/teabag/bodyblocking], then what's happening? What's to enjoy about any of that unless you are that perceived 'jerk' that does exist. I don't understand and its frustrating.
and, as it stands, camping, tunneling, and slugging are currently required on the killer's end to have the game even be fair enough to play to win right now.
Does it? I am doing just fine in my games without any of that, but I'll toss that out, clearly bias. I don't think I could ever flow with the idea the game requires killers to play 'a way'. This will just be inherently false due to the fact that it's just not the case. Players are winning with killers at all levels of play without 'needing' to do any of this. Then again, I am also not top MMR. If thats what you're talking about, then why? The game shouldn't be balanced around that. I mean, I don't think it should. If that wasn't what you meant, do you have more reasons that the ones you listed? Thoughts?
I am glad about your rants regarding BHVR. IN essence, all of this is still their work, issue, and only they can solve any of this. So we're screwed.
Tunneling, camping, and slugging is not a problem in the game. The real problem is that the alternative playstyles have been nerfed into the dirt or remain impractical at best.
I agree with this. However, if BHVR did actually fix things with these alternative playstyles, you really think it would move the needle regarding tunneling, etc? None of the alternative playstyles come close to the efficiency of tunneling, etc, so why would anyone switch playstyles? There's threads where it was insisted that 'this and that' will solve tunneling, only to have no affect or actually increase. So I don't know. If tunneling, slugging and camping are factually NEEDED, then this is merely a debate about why BHVR won't fix it. No survivors, no killers are to blame, its just the company. But here we are, the players, pointing and blaming.
I also don't like how they have made a few killers 'viable', and the rest are just there. Killers are more identified with DBD than survivors, so I would assume BHVR would want to really make the killers as perfect as they can in regards to viability. But… they don't. And we players suffer for it in various ways, such as the forums.
Can't deep dive as this bit took me 3 hours to write while at work. But I do appreciate the write up. Will be sharing it with friends this week for discussion. Have a good one!
If I misinterpreted anything you said prior, then I appreciate the time you take to help explain things better like this.
The unfortunate thing about DBD is that what people perceive as fun is wildly different among them which causes clashes among the community over the sort. The people that love the high-competitive nature of the game find great enjoyment in the sweatier playstyles. The ones that don't, me included, become drained and less willing to play the game as before. Another problem stemming from this is that one cannot decide how the other party plays. I can have try and spread hooks, use off-meta perks, and other non-viable means of playing the game, but then I'll get slammed by the other side and BM'd with horrendous talk. Sweats can't tell casuals to play seriously, and casuals can't tell sweats to play casually. Every match really is a toss-up.
No one ever wins in even mid to high MMR by spreading the hooks and playing nice. The baseline power of the survivor efficiency has been becoming too great to goof around as a killer. There most certainly isn't anyone winning at all levels of play without utilizing killer strategies such as camping, tunneling, and slugging. Unless the survivors are throwing the match, or the killer is using an S tier like Nurse, I have yet to personally see any competent match being won otherwise. A problem with this topic in particular is that the game doesn't even let us know what MMR we are in to properly gauge where we stand or compare our match performance to the community averages. More things for me to add to my list of complaints with BHVR's handling of this.
I do genuinely believe that camping, slugging, and camping would be less of a problem if alternative playstyles and killers were made more viable. I used to spread hooks and use wacky builds like Starstruck Sadako in my early parts of being in this game, but I have since reached a wall where I am actively punished and BM'd for doing this nowadays be it by the game itself or the people I am normally facing anymore. No kind deed I do goes unpunished which you can imagine what that has led to. A problem seen with this is that BHVR has the unfortunate habit of blanket solutions that only end up buffing the more powerful killers and widening the gap still (9.2.0 PTB) or implementing a change that doesn't actually do anything at all to encourage alternative playstyles and actually encourage the very thing they want to discourage (9.3.0 PTB).
To give BHVR some slack, trying to buff alternative playstyles while weak killers are already a mile apart from the more prominent ones is a tricky one, but they painted themselves into this corner. Perhaps one day Sadako will get a proper addon or QoL pass to make up for the damage they've done to her. I'd like to not have to sweat so much for as much value that I can get without trying on higher tiers.
I hope my bitter-flavored ramblings have at least made those three hours of work day a bit better. Take care.
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@cammoking123 said:
Just let people quit. All this forcing people to play a game they don't want to be in is ridiculous. DBD is the only game I can think of that tries to force people to play when they're not having fun.
How about people play through the match they queued up for?
Leave penalties exist on other games. This isn't a mechanic exclusive to DBD.
League of Legends requires matches to be played through for twenty minutes before a team is allowed to surrender for example. This is where "Surrender at 20" became a quote in that community.
@The_Hattur said:
the fact that dbd FORCES YOU to play a game your not having fun in is weird
DBD isn't "forcing" you to play the game. It's expecting you to finish what you start. If you can't handle playing a match through to the end, then perhaps you should play something else. With how much that people are DCing in my matches, DBD isn't punishing them enough.
@ArcT said:
As long as BHVR lets cheaters run amok, griefers grief with total impunity, and doesn't bother to fix their unstable netcode or flakey servers that will close a connection to you because a butterfly halfway across the world flapped its wings, they have no business punishing anybody for disconnections.
The report feature is there for a reason. Use that. And punishing people for disconnections most certainly is within their business to make sure the game stays healthy from people who queue up in bad faith. This would lead to healthier games overall like how preventing people from offing themselves on hooks as easily have done so for the most part.
@Aven_Fallen said:
I think they are fine currently. The thing is, I have two very recent examples, where a bigger DC-penalty would have just sucked.
First was when my SWF-Mate got a DC-Penalty for no reason. We are playing every evening together and we were playing for four days in a row and suddenly he got hit with a penalty. He did not DC at all during those four days and having 5 minutes without actually DCing is kind of strange. A larger penalty would not really be good here.
And second was just yesterday - I crashed one game (which is fine, it is on me to make sure my system does not crash, but it can happen… And sadly you cannot determine if I actually crashed or just made my game crash). However, the same evening we had a Cheater in our game and that Cheater got me stuck on a Hook (they started the Unhook-animation and then left me there mid-way… So my timer was not going down and nobody was able to unhook me). I had to DC because the only other option would have been to wait until the Killer can abandon because no Gen was done, but since this Cheater really wanted to be annoying, I doubt that they would have let this happen, because they could have just repaired a Gen every 9 minutes or so. I got a five minute penalty, which is bearable, but longer would have really been bad.
I really doubt that your friend would get a penalty for no reason, but that's worth reaching out to BHVR over to see what's going on in that end. Even if there are false positives, the larger penalty is most certainly necessary to stop the majority of the cases which are intentional disconnections in the middle of a match IMO.
That second part is just generally how awful the game is at catching cheaters right now with how the anti-cheat is set up. Were you able to report that cheater at least? They probably have 1,000 more accounts, but better to get rid of one at a time.
If it ever happens again in short order, then that's probably the time to just call it quits and take a break for the day after the match. That's what I do whenever stuff just messes up like that. When I had two of my teammates do nothing but jump in and out of lockers while I was left to die on my very first hook, I simply turned off the game after and played something else.
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@Terror_Misu said:
While I agree with @Pulsar , I disagree just saying things as he did solves anything. I understand he's been here awhile so this is likely just a song and dance by now. All love, @Pulsar , but Ill try to tackle this. I feel @Skeleton23 is passionate about the game and like everyone, wants it to be good overall. Thinking otherwise isn't productive imo. So here's to another good conversation. :)
Why are we complaining about removing something from a game that was built around it
Yes this game was built around Tunneling, Camping and Slugging.
Well, I disagree, as the idea someone would think this is a 'fun thing' is absurd. What kind of design decision would this be? If this game was built like this, there is no way the game would have had the success it has. Tunneling, camping and slugging only became 'a problem' after the game grew bigger than it could handle. BHVR never intended for this game to have the success it has. If this is in disagreement, please explain.
There's anti Tunneling Perks, there's Anti Slugging Perks there is anti Camp Perks and base kit Anti-face Camp. There is already counters to Tunneling and thats working as a team.
All of these 'anti killer playstyles' require absolutely nothing from the killer: no perks, no powers, no addons, nothing. The survivor has to bring perks for any one or more of these three playstyles. Lets see if we can agree on the following as a result.
1: This removes any builds a survivor wants to play. Can't experiment if your build is always preparing some thing that 'might' happen. This harks back to people screaming about Dead hard. 'I shouldn't have to play around a perk that may not be in play.' Then don't. Its a choice. Just like the killer 'might' tunnel/camp/slug'. I think everyone can agree feeling like you 'have' to bring a set of perks to counter something that 'might' be in play feels horrible for a video game. And this isn't a one side or another problem, its a problem for all the players of the game. It happens on both sides and it feels horrible. Please give attention to this, BHVR.
2: Working as a team does so much for the survivor chances of winning. Solo'Q, however, is meant to be a wild card mode imo. You don't get voice chat. You don't get much of anything unless BHVR keeps adding base kit BS to everything. I agree working together is a great counter. But is not always possible. Should those games be an easy stomp for the killer? Is this good design or could it be worked on? I'm indifferent, as I like the Solo'Q feeling of hopelessness. Only thing that gives that 'horror' feeling anymore for me.
That goes to the next point. this game is about time and its against the Killer 90% of the time. Every chase is time taken, every pallet break is time taken, every mistake is time taken. Everything the Killer does is time robbing.
The Gens are the timer of the Survivors needing to do them. The faster they Do the Gens the Faster the Timer goes down. The Killer must kill All 4 survivors before that timer hits 0.
So it doesn't matter how they get the Kills they need to get the Kills one way or another and the survivors must keep the Killer busy until they can finish the Gens by any means and escape.
Agreed. The game is about time management. But for both sides. If survivors take too long or goof off, the killer only gets that much closer to winning. Everything here is perfect except 'So it doesn't matter how they get the Kills they need to get the Kills one way or another and the survivors must keep the Killer busy until they can finish the Gens by any means and escape.'
I disagree with this. It very much matters how players 'can' go about this. Things like holding someone hostage due to collision, or team mates griefing, there's all kinds of things that can make a match terrible. And like tunneling, camping, and slugging, it's perk/addon/power free. Anyone can do it with nothing equipped.
And this leads to my point: Most things that can be done in the game that players dislike are things that don't require anything at all but loading into the match. Tunneling, camping, slugging, genrushing, tea bagging, body blocking, its all doable without anything required. SO perhaps BHVR should look into that bit of relation. But winning for the sake of winning by any means is a little out of touch. Its a video game, not literal killing, so why are we creating things that screw over only the players? Ah, to win. Eh.
The Killer is the Power role and it makes sense because its 1 against 4. Its a harder role because you have to manage 4 people. Killer can be seen as the management role because you have so much to keep your eye on while the time ticks down.
This is the same for both sides imo. Solo'Q would be the outlier since who knows ######### you're getting with team mates.
The killer has to worry about gens popping. That is all. The survivors have to worry about the killer spotting them. That is all. This game is not nearly as complicated as people make it out to be. Regardless, I don't see what this point is supposed to make. This has nothing to do with competitiveness, just a fact that applies to both sides if they're trying. Just my opinion, would love to discuss this one specifically though. :)
The game is Competitive because the game was designed that way because of how much time there truly is on both ends. Killers Tunnel because time is against them and with having to manage 4 survivors that are constantly working on Gens. Spreading hooks maybe a more enjoyable way of playing but its not effective when you want to win
So getting someone out Quickly is strong because it removes 1 extra person on Gens. So if someone is being tunneled Get off Gens and help them until the give up on them or until the others get the Gens Done.
If The Killer is being Competitive then you be Competitive back. Its simpler than it looks.
The is competitive because its two sides trying to complete objectives before the other. Yes, how it is designed. Not because of time, but because of design. The time topic is strictly an in game thing a player will put into place to get things done. You don't -have- to play all time constrained. That's also a choice. Winning only mindset? A choice.
Being competitive has become synonymous with being a D*&$, but I wish it didn't. I wish players could find ways to play the damn game without wanting to ruin things for other players. Good ol human beings doing their finest per usual.
If you want to remove tunneling you need to remove what is built around it because there's Perks that involve Tunneling and strategies that enforce it. Gen Rushing, Sabo Squads will need to be removed to help remove these strategies because they force the Killer to do them.
also Killers Like Twins that there power is designed to Slug will rather need to be reworked entirely or retired because if you cant do this strategy with this killer they Can Funtion.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033160#Comment_4033160
It makes no sense why remove strategies when Survivors use there second chance perks Aggressively and when they go down they DC and complain about Tunneling or Slugging in the end game chat and Forms.
Well, since those things aren't even related, it seems you are in the crowd that says 'If one side changes, the other side MUST get compensation.'
No, you're not guaranteed anything. BHVR is -trying- to balance. And if one side needs adjustment and not the other, the whining needs to cease. This isn't even in game stuff so I'm sure we can agree on this point. Feeling something needs to be given to offset is just pure entitlement. Too much of that from both sides tbh.
So Tunneling shouldn't of even been a topic unless the game was reserving a huge overhaul to make the Anti Tunnel Work.
Im not saying this to be mean im only speaking my mind and speaking in a way so people can understand. If Tunneling, Slugging is a problem then what there built around need to be Looked at first
Tunneling shouldn't have been a problem. But it is the number 1, 2, or 3 thing complained about, so clearly, it is a problem. Anyone refusing to see this can continue to be in denial, but this is hurting the game. Period. This isn't just my opinion, its (One of) the reasons for constant failed PTBs. They're trying to FIX this very thing you say 'isn't a problem.'
Out. Of. Touch. This is BHVR to the game and community. It is also players who want things to simply remain as is.
Im also not speaking to be mean. My hope is this becomes quite a wonderful discussion, because I can't find the points in your perspective that justify making the game miserable.
That's all! TY for reading if you made it this far. :)
The game is built around camping, tunneling, and slugging because that is mechanically the tools that the one needs to employ against the four. Whether or not a person finds it fun is irrelevant in itself, and the game itself was growing fine in itself before the killer strategies started to be strangled. It's only a "problem" now because they've been becoming the only valid option for low tier killers. Hit-and-run, status effects, hex totems, end game, et cetera. Things have only been getting more difficult as of late as gens have been getting even faster. What is a killer supposed to do when two gens are done by the time they get their first hook? Keep spreading them out? No, the killer needs pressure. That's where camping, tunneling, and slugging comes in.
In combating against these killer strategies, the survivors don't actually need any perks to counter them to begin with. The Japanese playerbase made this point abundantly clear with how they've been playing the game both solo queue and with swf. Their survival rates are higher in average compared to the rest, and yet they are more likely to not use any of the second chance perks. This is because the best defense against tunneling, camping, and tunneling is getting better at the game. People do not get better at the game through second chance perks and continual buffs to the basekit protections. They become reliant upon them just like with the second chance perks.
Survivors are also pressed for time in getting through a match, but the balance between the time management of the two are wildly skewed right now. Healing times are incredibly fast alongside repair efficiency in gen-eral. This is what causes killers to sweat even harder to put pressure on the survivors. Chases being extended by the pallet density update has only been making things worse.
Holding people hostage as a killer or griefing the team as a survivor is nothing at all like what they were trying to say with what you are responding to with that example. A killer must kill in any way they can as much as a survivor must escape through any means necessary. A killer doesn't succeed in holding just one person hostage and a survivor doesn't accomplish anything for the team by sabotaging them. Camping, tunneling, and slugging doesn't need perks, but neither does gen rushing, sabotaging, and pallet/flashlight saving teammates. They're just methods from both sides to get the edge over the other. Winning for the sake of winning is the epitome of a competitive video game which DBD is.
Killers have to prevent gens from being popped and survivors have to escape. Saying it like that, it's quite simple. In practice, it shows that it's not so symmetrical. For one, killers are alone and have to manage everything about that role themselves. Survivors are a group of four and thus are dividing tasks among themselves. Secondly, mistakes are much more impactful on the killer's end than with survivors especially with the continual buffs to second chance basekit effects and perks. The killer has to deal with game issues while solo queue has to deal with team issues. One is not like the other. Thus, it can be said that it is harder on the killer than even a solo queue survivor.
Playing to win the game is not playing to ruin the game for others, and, as it stands, camping, tunneling, and slugging are currently required on the killer's end to have the game even be fair enough to play to win right now. Unless the survivor team is playing horrendously poorly, or the killer being used is an S tier, spreading hooks is an assured way to lose the game as a killer. Does one have to play to win in DBD? No, but one side cannot tell the other whether or not they should play to win at all in the match. It's not uncommon to see people who are playing to win get upset that the other side is playing to win and doing just that. Unfortunately, the community has a streak of hypocrisy on both sides in this regards.
When camping, tunneling, and slugging was being very viciously attacked in the 9.2.0 PTB, and to the lesser degree in the 9.3.0 PTB, it most certainly warranted a "compensation" to offset the changes. The first mistake is acting as though the changes were only affecting one side to begin with which is false. That is the nature of an asymmetrical game, but BHVR has been poorly handling it on top of their inability to close the gap between the strong and weak killers in the game for making spread hooks more rewarding and practical in itself. That which it currently is not and is more of a detrimental playstyle to the killer despite being more enjoyable for both sides. The latest update was practically another net buff to the survivor side with the basekit Borrowed Time getting 50% longer alongside the majority of the anti-camp changes. Meanwhile, there wasn't even a full revert to the horrendous pallet density update, Skull Merchant only got partial of her former strength back from before she got shot behind the shed (she'll still be in D tier at most), and… that's it. A very lopsided update to say the least.
Tunneling is not a problem at all, but it's still getting nerfed without compensation to any other playstyle. The very method in which BHVR got that information of it being a top problem was a well-documented instance of poor information at best. The survey in which they obtained that information also being lopsided in the questions given to the person for filling out as there was hardly any option for why a killer player might be wanting to uninstall the game. The data is unreliable.
The PTBs continually failed because BHVR keeps trying to address symptoms than the actual problems themselves. Tunneling, camping, and slugging is not a problem in the game. The real problem is that the alternative playstyles have been nerfed into the dirt or remain impractical at best. Spreading hooks and going for chases is, again, a very poor way to play killer because it doesn't provide nearly as much benefit in pressure as slugging, camping, and tunneling. Rather than address this issue, BHVR decided to nerf the tried and true methods while floundering on ways to actually buff the alternatives. Basekit BBQ, pop, and haste off fresh hooks was their initial attempt in doing so, but it showed that the power disparity between the killers was another problem yet to be addressed. This wasn't helped by the camping, tunneling, and slugging penalties also being way overtuned in the 9.2.0 PTB so that whole thing was practically scrapped for the 9.3.0 PTB which then followed the same mistakes. That with spreading hooks being discouraged even more so than previously with it offering just a meager bloodlust effect that disappeared whenever the killer sneezed while survivors got massive buffs to basekit second chances with multiple perk effects being cobbled together. Again, another lopsided thing to say the least.
Even in the PTBs where survivors got all these crazy strong buffs and advantages, they still DC like crazy. At what point should the developers realize that they cannot coddle people who aren't willing to learn the game properly and only want to rely on the game being played for them? There comes a point where any notion of sympathy vanishes in the face of witnessing people refuse to improve themselves. That is the very kind of person that got my favorite killer, Sadako, nerfed into one whose counterplay has become the most braindead easy version imaginable yet. Competent survivors stomp her and bad survivors still die to her and complain about her power being "no skill" while showing not even the minimal amount of effort required to interact with said power.
It's quite out of touch to be talking as though you mean well and then immediately label everything the OP talked about as though they're trying to justify making the game more miserable. I supposed I should not have been surprised when you tried alluding that playing competitively is to want to ruin things for someone else. Oh well.
TL;DR
Camping, tunneling, and slugging is not the major problem with the game right now. It's always been a core aspect of the game to begin with. Its rise in publicity and commonplace within the game is a symptom of the overall, bigger problem where killers, most noticeably the lower tiers, have no real options in the face of rising challenges in the game's current meta. Spreading hooks is not viable for the majority of the killers that cannot accomplish blazing fast chases with high map mobility. It was not helped one bit with the careless scattering of pallets all over the realms and has only served to make killer power disparities even greater. This is why people often joke about something like "Nurse by GhoulBlight" because that is the future of the game if things keep getting worse. Killer anxiety has only been getting worse for the low tiers and pushes them into the stronger options which is a detriment to the overall health of the game.
Until spreading hooks and other playstyles become viable, camping tunneling, and slugging should remain the core pillars of establishing pressure as they currently are. The game should be balanced around the ones willing to learn how to play the game than the ones who DC when the game doesn't play itself for them.
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They're > They Are
Their =/ There
You're killing me with the spelling alone, Paragon lol
Nitpicks aside, it's as you say. The killer needs to apply pressure through any means necessary, and the continual rise in baseline survivor strength through perks, seconds chances, and basekit features has led to less killer variety and strategic options. The ones that remain are the tried and true for now.
In the very competitive scene of the game, where both sides are assuredly capable at their roles, the survivors have to be nerfed and the killers are not shamed for using these oh-so-terrible strategies such as camping, tunneling, and slugging. Any time the developers propose a change that can be toggled off in custom matches, know that it's an unnecessary one.
Things will not really go for the better until the devs are forced to publicly play their own game for everyone to see like that infamous match in Korea that got flashlights nerfed after Mathieu Cote was humiliated by a random group of survivors four-outing his Hag with no hooks had. Maybe then the devs responsible for balancing the game will be quicker on the uptake about why survivors are slugged for longer than usual on Gideon's Meat Plant.
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It's more a buff to friendly killers than hard tunnelers since the latter don't need to keep track of an entire team but one person. In the instances that I want to just two hook what survivors are left (typically due to someone rage quitting and screwing over their team in the process), I will no longer forget and accidentally sacrifice someone I hooked repeatedly before or had gotten to second stage without me realizing.
And it's just quite nice for anyone interested in the macro gameplay. Makes keeping track of scourge hooks and fresh hook perks a bit better especially with some survivors that look identical.
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@solidgamer44 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997246#Comment_3997246
I wasn't wrong, actually the reverse since they didn't go through with the changes with the upcoming chapter lol.
Crazy.
That us "doomposters" were even able to see just how bad the patch was before it even needed to get a week of testing before being postponed for reiteration is quite sad to see. You were even mentioning the Clown changes which still went through despite massive backlash to that PTB as an example so not really assuaging us of it doing the same for this one which actually ended up happening.
@solidgamer44 said:
Do you guys work at BHVR? We still don't have the ptb or even specific notes just very bare bones soon to come to PTB announcement at this point.
Where are you guys getting this information? Doomposting is up to lvl 500 at this point honestly.
Seem's like theres so many insiders that already know the PTB test is gonna be completely cooked, and there's no shot if the patch is so bad theres massive blowback that's gonna go live… surely… oh wait the clown changes!
Do we work at BHVR? Don't need to.
Didn't have PTB or details for it? Wasn't necessary at that time.
Where were we getting the information from? BHVR themselves.
Doomposting? Nah, just being right.
Us "insiders" were using common sense to realize exactly what BHVR's proposed changes would do to the game before the PTB even went live, but feel free to keep telling yourself that your heckling to our early warnings had any merit.
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@solidgamer44 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995130#Comment_3995130
Gaslighting won't work on me man, we didn't have details in the patch notes or how they functioned before it was all I merely stated. Idk why you are so hostile but you seem legit like you gotta touch grass or something man cause all I was saying was wait for the patch notes lol.
"All I was saying was wait for the patch notes"
Yet we were able to fully realize the implications of the proposed changes enough to see it exactly how it would end up before the patch notes came out. And it turns out that the changes were so bad that there's a delay for them even to go back to the drawing board. Wow, who could have seen that coming?
Learn to accept that you were wrong and move on.
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@solidgamer44 said:
Do you guys work at BHVR? We still don't have the ptb or even specific notes just very bare bones soon to come to PTB announcement at this point.
Where are you guys getting this information? Doomposting is up to lvl 500 at this point honestly.
Seem's like theres so many insiders that already know the PTB test is gonna be completely cooked, and there's no shot if the patch is so bad theres massive blowback that's gonna go live… surely… oh wait the clown changes!
Yeah. Not much hope for the PTB to change much when we've seen how those have gone. This is taking the Sadako 3.0 rework PTB in mind as well which initially went well until sudden changes halfway in that never got resolved until post updates after the chapter. Better to have the backlash start early with what we know. The finer details can either help put out the fire (unlikely) or just make it burn even brighter (most likely).
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992193#Comment_3992193
How new are you? Sorry but the fact you are saying healing getting buffed just shows you are nothing more than a newbie, no offense and you are entitled to opinions but you aren't knowledgeable enough to have relevant or interesting insight. Healing perks used to be incredibly good. Circle let people self heal and self care used to be much higher. And that's not even touching the base time increase for heals.
Also if the only way you know how to apply pressure is to tunnel just shows that you need to learn how to actually play the game, again no offense but you are just getting a boosted mmr when you play without actually knowing how to play the game.
Saying "no offense" multiple times before outwardly insulting me is not a very constructive use of anyone's time.
Healing perks have very much been getting buffed while anti-healing has been left in the dirt. Need I remind you just how recently that Botany Knowledge of all things got buffed? Or Desperate Measures? Or Empathic Connection? All back in June. Orela's chapter introducing yet another potent healing perk in that one.
Am I not "knowledgeable enough" to point out things that have happened that recently? Or is it too inconvenient of a topic for you to get into?
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991481#Comment_3991481
Tunneling has gotten worse because killers kept getting buffs and survivors kept getting nerfs. Look at fog vial, an item that actually helped counter tunneling and dead in less than a week. You need a stick approach sometimes to fix an issue. Anything else just ends with tunneling being more viable.
Did you not see the healing perks constantly being buffed over time while anti-healing effects have remained timer-based in a Vigil meta? Franklin's Demise got butchered. The new map spawn logic is inconsistent and even more breakable with offerings. Hook stages being 10 seconds longer made the pressure from them even less. Shoulder the Burden became a thing. All while incredibly popular second chance perks have remained untouched for so long.
When you keep removing the killer's ability to apply pressure, what do you think is going to happen? They resort to what still works. Hit-and-run and status effect builds died thanks to rapid healing and Vigil. A killer needs to commit to chases, but time is short especially for the M1 killers with low mobility. It's shorter to focus on two survivors than all four... Oh… that's considered "tunneling" now and will actively punish the killer despite never going for the same person twice in a row because you need SIX hook stages before the killer is allowed to do their bloody job.
This will surely not affect killers that rely less on hook stages nor could it ever be abused by survivors in the end game to secure the final gen. Killers like Sadako are merely a figment of our imaginations.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990641#Comment_3990641
Wrong, Survivors dont need these changes, these things are not done because Survivors have a need to.
They are done because of all the people who quit dbd and there has been many its mainly tunneling. And maybe of us who still play would like something done about tunneling, that is why we are doing these changes not what survivors need to survive.The reason devs drag their feet is because there is no urgent problem, Sadako's killrate is acceptable, maybe not acceptable to you but thats not the issue, if this change does something, she will become urgent, its that simple.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990707#Comment_3990707
who gonna waste time in running around when sadako can't kill them anyways
You can kill them, but the game just wont be easier because you tunnel someone out anymore.
or Slug them, make a play in less than 90s.If survivors don't need these changes, then the changes don't need to go through. If tunneling is a problem, then maybe look into why tunneling has become more and more of a necessity especially for the lower-tier killers. Survivors have been becoming more and more powerful on top of gens being completed even faster than they ever have before. This is driving the weaker killers into using the efficient strategies more and more. The more you keep nerfing the killers, the sweatier they end up becoming just to have anything work.
"Sadako's killrate is acceptable"
Really? At low MMR where she stomps people who have no idea how she works or what they're supposed to do? That totally makes up for her being an easy win to go against when competent survivors are actually present? She's been in urgent need of buffs for a long time now and inhabiting the bottom of the killer tier lists for a good reason. I already went over a lot of the problems she was left with. Nothing was ever done to compensate for the nerfs she was given in the 3.0 rework and it would have been even worse if massive backlash wasn't had over their last-minute nerfs in that PTB.
And that 90 seconds for the slug timer is additive. It fills up over all the different times a person is left on the ground according to BHVR. The moment it's filled up, it's a permanent Unbreakable for the rest of the match. Way on them to buff sabo squads even more by removing the only counterplay killers had to that playstyle.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990654#Comment_3990654
I read it, still not seeing how killing all 4 survivors is going to crash the game.
And since I responded to a direct quote, in context, you haven't really had any discussion on that either.
The majority of this entire thread seems to misunderstand that the "killing survivors" post is intended to be rare, and with counter play for the survivors. (It's also completely within the killers choice to do so, and you can still hook people who are full).
Powers like pig hats and Onryo condemn aren't there primarily to get kills, it's slowdown that forces survivors to do something other than gens. With pretty harsh punishment for ignoring it. That doesn't change.
Killing survivors with Sadako's Condemned mechanic is not supposed to be rare. The only people who say this do not play Sadako nor have any intention to understand how she works.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990507#Comment_3990507
If you cant make a meaningful play in 90s of the Survivor slugging around, then you are playing against higher mmr survivors than you should play against, which is a shame but it happens. But actually you can slug and you should.
This killer shouldn't be balanced around survivors who have no idea what they're doing against the power
The Killer isnt being balanced around that, the game in general is being balanced around that and the solution is to buff the remaining survivors to compensate for the poop team-mate. Sorry if you want an easy game for tunneling someone out, that wont be able to happen as easily anymore, which is a good change.
Should this be a monumental problem for Sadako, she can be buffed later.
"She can be buffed later" is what a ton of people were saying about Sadako after her second rework, and it has yet to happen yet. Whenever someone tries bringing it up, we get people like you accusing them of just wanting an easy game for tunneling someone out. This will be a monumental problem for Sadako, and the devs will actively drag their feet to buffing her just like how they do whenever she gets bugged which has been quite constant.
Why does Sadako have one second interaction times? Why do her TVs have aura reading on them when turned on? Why are tapes no longer destroyed on hits? Because she's being balanced around survivors who didn't know how she worked or those who actively refused to engage with her playstyle and power.
If you need a base kit unbreakable after being downed for 90 seconds, on top of the basekit Tenacity, then perhaps you are playing against higher MMR killers than you should play against. Not even mentioning the repair speed boosts and unkickable and unblockable gens if a recently hooked survivor dies before six total hook stages are had. Or the lack of unhook notifications and delayed hook status UI for the killers. Give me a break.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990457#Comment_3990457
Its not playing effectively when you are playing against a survivor who dont know what they are doing.
Ofc Survivors need compensation if that happens and then you can just slug them before the 6th hooking is done.
This killer shouldn't be balanced around survivors who have no idea what they're doing against the power, but that's what the devs have been doing by making her counterplay so braindead easy. And you can't just slug people nowadays with Conviction existing and especially after this upcoming update if it goes through because there's basekit Tenacity and Unbreakable coming in with it.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990408#Comment_3990408
While I agree with you that spreading condemned and getting condemned kills is still the true depth of Sadako's gameplay, the tapes are more than just 1 second of slowdown.
You have to find a TV which isn't deactivated and then take it to the TV which is the furthest from the one you got it from. So it's only a 1s interaction to put the tape in but you still have to run across the entire map, assuming you were able to quickly get a tape in the first place.
More than just 1 second of slowdown? You've got to be kidding me.
Finding a TV that isn't deactivated is incredibly easy and a part of your normal movements as a survivor. Just go to any generator and a TV should be nearby. If the TV is off, just work on the gen. When the TV turns on, grab the tape and just work on the gen. You can't gain condemned near a TV that is turned off and you're also shutting off her mobility in doing so.
If Sadako begins making her way to your gen, or if you finish that gen, just start moving away and make your way to the target TV where you can then insert the tape and remove about all of your gained Condemn stacks even if Sadako is chasing you because she can't interrupt you properly with the interactions being just one second.
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@Emeal said:
Uhm… no her power is Tape Slowdown and Teleport. The Mori is for when Survivor fail to fix their tape charges.
Her power is to Condemn and mini mori survivors as an end reward for successfully doing so. The slowdown is a passive benefit from this playstyle as it's how survivors are supposed to combat against it to try and avoid her curse as long as possible. But now the counterplay is so easy and quick that the slowdown has begun to lose much of its pressure nowadays and her mobility is also shut down in doing so. That just leaves her as an M1 "stealth" killer with manifestation mind games as her only thing to lean on against competent survivors.
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Sadako needed buffs at this point not more nerfs! I went out of the second Sadako rework thinking that they put her in a healthier state just so that they can make her better over time in a way that's good for the game for both sides, but it's been anything but. Her counterplay has remained incredibly braindead easy while her weaknesses have only been getting more and more apparent with how the game has been progressing since then. The one second interaction times and tape not being destroyed on hit anymore has been a major mistake at this point. Holding onto a tape has no risk when it should.
No a survivor can just grab a tape and do gen. When Sadako gets close, you just pre-run against her because you denied her her only mobility and she's easy to see coming despite being categorized as a stealth killer. Insert the tape right in front her because it's a measly one second (Can do it before her hit cooldown is done even). Get downed with no stacks and have her gain no condemn stacks on you if hooked or be left on the ground and now get yourself a free pickup ability if left slugged. She's getting screwed over in so many ways right now that I'm beginning to lose my mind.
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@Coordi said:
Streetwise does not meet the criteria for a Kill Switch. It sucks to have to say that that plainlyt, as the last thing I want to do is minimize player concerns or frustrations. The team is aware, it's being monitored, but it is not breaking the game.
Is this an out-of-season April Fool's joke?
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The perk's prevalence in today's meta ensures that all of the anti-healing effects wear off incredibly fast on top of status effects such as exposed and hindered that some killers depend upon with their builds and powers or used as a balancing factor with Shoulder The Burden. This is a huge nerf to duration-based perks such as Sloppy Butcher and Forced Penance, but at least Forced Penance prevents any healing entirely to prevent early brute-force healing.
The perk alone makes Clown's intoxication current duration a 0.6 seconds lingering effect now, and it can stack with others to make it even shorter. It completely kills Clown's purples without the killer realizing what is going on which will just lead to even more of the yellows being spammed instead which is not very healthy or engaging gameplay for either side.
Vigil + Sprintburst is the current Shift + W strat, and, unsurprisingly, the ones that it affects the most are low-tier killers who have little to no mobility and depend on using M1 attacks. We're also in a period of the game that has a bug going around that prevents bloodlust from being active which… affects low-tier killers. Stuff like this being so strong and prevalent is what makes Kaneki, Nurse, Dracula, and Blight so popular and powerful. They don't lose as much distance from someone pre-running, and can and will punish people for trying to do nothing but that strat.
When the game has something as strong as this, it discourages perk variety and can lead to other decent ones being ignored. BHVR sees these perks not being used and decides to buff them instead of asking themselves why the heavily used ones are so popular. I hope that they can see this feedback and take the proper steps to address it as the game is not in a healthy spot because of Vigil and its cascading effects.
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@Mandy said:
Hello!
Quickly diving in to say thank you to all for this discussion, this is something that's been investigated by the team and we hope to have a resolve for the release of the next Chapter (so yes, next week!). We thank you all for such a thorough discussion!
This is exactly what we needed to hear! Even better than expected! Thank you!
I'm looking forward to seeing to what this resolution attempt will be :D
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@CountFoxy said:
While I don't personally main any of these killers, I do play Sadako occasionally and… why is this a thing? Survivors shouldn't be able to completely change the way a killer's power functions before the match has even started and in a way where a killer can't do much to stop them. What are they supposed to do, bring "Cut coin" every match just to be able to play? And if a dedicated team does this, that will by far not be enough. Please change this!
The sad part about the cut coin solution is that it doesn't actually resolve the issue especially during an anniversary event if it's anything like last year. You're going to be having everyone want to run with the new cakes which is very likely a chest with every one that a survivor brings. Once people understand that their coin offerings mess with Springtrap's power, you might even see up to +8 chests from any group that coordinates it out of frustration of playing against him so much (which will happen).
A cut coin will be easily overpowered by the amount of anniversary cakes and shiny coins that will come into play, and all the other killers that depend on their killer item placements are gonna catch flak from it all again. Just running with last year's cake myself is enough to see some odd TV placements. It's going to be crazy once this year's anniversary starts up and if chest offerings return baked with the cakes.
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Been a few days since I last checked on this post, and I come back to see that it's still being ignored by the community managers and game developers? Really? You might want to start addressing this before the FNAF chapter and anniversary event comes out with likely yet more chest-boosting offerings.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939251#Comment_3939251
YayC is a YouTuber/Streamer. He probably told his viewers to mass upvote it.
The viewers don't just upvote it because a YouTuber told them to. People are upvoting it because everyone can agree that it's a problem that needs fixing.
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Taking the time to finally stop by and boost this thread as I promised earlier today.
I main Sadako. I also want to play Xenomorph and Springtrap on the side whenever I want some extra spice to my playtime. This absolutely affects me and I'm tired of chest spawns messing up with my matches. I can't keep affording to run cut coin with how rare they are to stock up on.
At this point, I think that killer item spawns should be fixed locations or something. At the very least, have them spawn before the chests so that priority locations are secured and the placements seem logical enough instead of having my killer items all bundled up in the corner of the map.
For a game currently undergoing "Operation Health", this QoL change is no less than a requirement. Especially if your biggest and most hyped chapter is also going to be affected by this game design oversight that negatively impacts both killer and survivors.
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Many months later and this is STILL an issue?
Great job, Behavior.
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@TefyStanford said:
I am also experiencing too many disconnections, when I have not even been in a game for 5 minutes. This morning I logged in at 10:00am to play, and in a few minutes the game froze and kicked me out, indicating a disconnection from the server. They blocked me from searching for players for 24 hours. And I've already had 6 hour penalties in the last few days. The servers are annoying terribly. It's not my internet connection nor is it my PS5.
I've been noticing people disconnecting in some of the matches I've been playing in recently. Not sure what may be causing it to happen to some people more than others.
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Yes, I am crashing all the time in the new store to where I'm afraid to even open it at all now.
Fatal error: [File:C:\J2\lPCs\Engine\Source\Runtime\D3D12RHI\Private\D3D12Util.cpp] [Line: 873] CurrentQueue.Fence.D3DFence->GetCompletedValue() failed at C:\J2\lPCs\Engine\Source\Runtime\D3D12RHI\Private\D3D12Submission.cpp:939 with error DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED with Reason: DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_HUNG
DeadByDaylight_Win64_Shipping {0x0000000000000000} + 97574018 bytes
DeadByDaylight_Win64_Shipping {0x0000000000000000} + 97373270 bytes
DeadByDaylight_Win64_Shipping {0x0000000000000000} + 97419625 bytes
DeadByDaylight_Win64_Shipping {0x0000000000000000} + 97434848 bytes
DeadByDaylight_Win64_Shipping {0x0000000000000000} + 97459071 bytes
DeadByDaylight_Win64_Shipping {0x0000000000000000} + 91313015 bytes
DeadByDaylight_Win64_Shipping {0x0000000000000000} + 91289201 bytes
kernel32 {0x0000000000000000} + 95044 bytes
ntdll {0x0000000000000000} + 337585 bytesBehavior snubbed me while offering no advice beyond asking around here on it. There is at least another person that affirmed to have the same issue so it's surely not just a personal problem.
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@Arthurdpa said:
dude, I have the same exact problem, and it doesn't matter how much time I spend looking on the internet, I can't find a solution, and I'm mad, because I spent 20 bucks on this game, so either Behaviour gives my 20 bucks back or give me a solution… it's been almost a month that I posted my report on this crashing, but I got no response from Behaviour nor anyone
The only response that Behaviour gave me was basically "lmao not gonna do anything about it go ask someone else"
I never had this problem at all prior to the update so it's quite clearly on their end no matter how much they deny it. I'd love it if they could at least pretend to care or offered some solutions instead of blowing me off.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697848#Comment_3697848
It doesn‘t have both effects anymore. I think it was fine as it was bugged. Now it‘s just trash.
You're right! Just did a custom game test with my friend to confirm this.
What patch fixed this? I didn't see it in the recent notes or anything.
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@jonifire said:
You pretty much show the problems perfectly. My main problem with her starts with her design. 2.0 and 3.0 both encourage survivors to always turn off TVs, where in 1.0 you shouldn‘t interact with TVs at least not that much. In 2.0 you at least didn‘t loose the condemned power (only teleport) and in 3.0 you lose your condemned and teleport power. In 1.0 you had both powers available almost always, shure she had long Tv cooldowns, but she had addons to manage that and her condemned was also not that bad (but it could have gotten some buffs like increasing it to 24m or making it based around the proximity 0-8m 2stacks; 8-16m 1stack; 16-24m 0,5 stacks). Now you basically play her only as M1 without power most of the time, because most survivors shut down all her TVs. On the other side she is a monster in stomping inexperienced survivors, who ignore her counterplay/don‘t know it, which in my opinion is a bad design. Her tp became bad in chase, because survivor see exactly where you teleport and run in the opposite direction. This leaves you even when survivors didn‘t turn off the TV with an ineffective teleport. Also when playing against her she lost all the horror by the TV auras (without them you didn‘t know from where she would come). I really enjoyed playing against and as 1.0.
Her current addons are in my opinion almost all weak. She had good ones, but they all got deleted or became outdated, this makes me sad.😔
Videotape copy got a good new effect
Newspaper was always good, but I don‘t understand why she has one addon that does make her flicker better in demanifest and in manifest like Newspaper and reikos watch could be one addon for both parts.
Mother‘s mirror does what it is supposed to do, I guess it‘s ok, when I would change something, I would hide the red stain in general while she flickers in manifest.
Cabin sign and well stone aren‘t really worth bringing since her TVs no longer have long cooldowns. If both would make TVs turn on faster in general, instead of only after your tp or after survivors turned them off, they could be a bit useful with a number buff (you don‘t really feel that they do anything). Or maybe they should get new effects.
Yoichis fishing net: I don‘t really feel whether it does anything. I would want the old effect back that it gives passive condemned faster if we get or 1.0 version back or that this addon makes that tapes give passive condemned, so that survivors don‘t hoard tapes.
Sea soaked cloth and rickety pinwheel are both outdated, it was okey as people didn‘t turn off TVs, but now you get nothing from them. First of all they need a bigger range. I would say make it the range of condemned and maybe merge them.
Reikos watch should get its old 50% back even tho the base flicker got buffed and like it said above I don‘t understand why we have an addon for demanifest flicker and manifest flicker, this should be one addon for both parts
Clumb of hair: I can‘t say whether it makes a difference/ does something impactful, but this is a cool unique addon, which could be good with a big number buff.
Well water is good
Bloody fingernails is her best addon, please don‘t nerf it
Mothers Clumb it‘s good, but I don‘t like it
VCR became useless, because of the TV auras!
Distorted photo is okey. I like that there is written you have to „witness a manifestation“ even tho this addon becomes worse by that. If it would get the telephone effect with 6% hindered it would be good.
Telephone: Move the effect to distorted photo or buff it significantly or new effect.
Tape editing deck is outdated and was only good with passive condemned (since 2.0 useless)
Remote control is good
Iri tape is not worth it being an iri. I like the idea, but this should be a grey meme addon, where you get more blood points. Just bring back old iri videotape, which turned 4 TVs back on by hitting a survivor. I know this would probably be too strong in this version, but if you go back to 1.0 please bring it back.
Ring drawing is terrible after the deletion of its old healing gives condemned effect. Either bring back healing a injured survivor gives commend or make it an iri addon and make that healing in general gives one stack. The OG ring drawing would be worthy an iri addon.
New addons ideas:
- phasing through survivors gives Sadako haste or makes them exposed or gives condemned. This would be a fun addon.
- shorter switching time between demanifest and manifest
- A global condemned addon for those, who liked Sadako 2.0
- removing the lullaby/making it map wide/reducing it
I wish we would get her OG mechanics back, I think this was the fairest/most fun version for both sides and she only needed the buffs and QOL changes from the reworks.
To archive that I would change some of the addons back (iri tape/ ring drawing/ reikos watch/yoichis fishing net) and some parts while keeping the other changes from the reworks:
- passive condemned through tapes (every 25s 1stack)
- Tv auras removed. I would only show survivors the one TV where they have deposit their tape. It‘s frustrating when they know where you are, before you even crawl out the TV
- Only one TV gives condemned. To buff condemned I would increase the range where you get condemned to 24m or make it based around the proximity 0-8m 2stacks; 8-16m 1 stack; 16-24m 0,5 stacks
- Remove that you can turn of TVs, while holding a tape by getting one stack
- 1,5-2s tape insertion speed, 1s is too short
Another problem is her lullaby, which makes her stealth very bad since you introduced the visual terror radius. Before this was introduced most didn‘t even noticed it, I didn‘t notice it either. The best way to deal with it (even tho it might be a bit unfair for people who can‘t hear) would be to remove it from the visuel heartbeat.
Ring Drawing is actually her strongest addon right now but not intentionally as it has the old and new effects combined since the start of the Sadako 3.0 PTB. It does still have the "get condemned stack from healing condemned survivors" effect on top of the new one where it spreads it out for hooking someone with a tape. As it currently stands, it's much more of an iri addon in value than the actual Iri Videotape which is kinda sad.
https://youtu.be/OAiIHggLpCo?si=Hzunut_XVWjzG77l -
@MechWarrior3 said:
Thank you for your detailed thoughts my friend :)
Not sure why your post went through so many times. lol
I made such a long post that it was bugging the forum lol
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VCR (Purple) - A mind game addon that fails at what it's supposed to do as seen by the OP's video. The TV auras need to all be hidden during the Projection or they need to keep the one active for the target TV for about two seconds at least. This is supposed to be helping her mask her approach, but currently Well Water does a much better job at it.
Telephone (Purple) - The hindered effect feels really weak for just a three second duration, and I don't think it applies to Projection as well. Bump up the range up one to 8 meters, boost duration to 5 seconds, let it work on Projection, and add in an exhaustion effect to have it be a solid "Going for the kill" kinda addon it's trying to be.
Tape Editing Deck (Purple) - This addon feels really bad when holding onto a tape no longer has a downside as it used to with Sadako 1.0 and 2.0. There's no passive condemn or stacks being gained when hit anymore. It's just Ring Drawing that directly punishes survivors for holding onto them and it's more towards their allies than the person themself. A six second aura is nice, but there's no pressure into getting them to do that beyond the usual pace. Passive condemn even at a weaker rate would make holding onto a tape even deadlier.
Distorted Photo (Purple) - It's not working with Projection which hurts the use of this addon. The screaming and aura is nice if it actually worked more consistently. It just feels as clunky as the Twins to use right now.
Remote Control (Red) - Amazing for getting some quick reads on anyone near an active TV and good for possible interceptions on anyone you see approaching a TV. It lives up to its status as an iridescent addon.
Iridescent Videotape (Red) - With its old effect made into her kit, the new effect is like a super version of her old Videotape Copy (Grey) addon except a lot worse with the downsides for Projection spamming. The lack of condemn stacks is what really guts this addon the most as it is the foundation of her entire kit's slowdown. The best you can do right now with it is use Ring Drawing (Green) which is kinda broken in its own right but not enough to put pressure on anyone turning TVs off and making them take 84 seconds to turn back on than the usual 70. This is an iridescent addon that effectively has the killer shoot themself in the foot. I think it needs to still spread condemn but at a weaker 0.5 stacks like how the old grey addon used to be. It will allow much more spamming and mobility for Sadako, but it will make counterplay against her even more effective as well.
That's just my thoughts on the addons for right now. Some good and some bad. Could use more to be good or at least decent so there's more build variety overall. Biggest issue right now is certainly the interaction times, but these would also be good for improving the killer's different playstyles.
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That's a pretty good summary of a few things troubling this killer. The interaction time being 1 second was a very vocal outcry ignored in the PTB. The amount of times I'd have a survivor insert the tape in the middle of a chase is just absurd.
If we're going to talk about addons, then might as well make ourselves a list here to overview what works and doesn't. This would be my own observations on the addons so please do include your own thoughts on anything here.
Videotape Copy (Grey) - An extra 2m range on Projection stacks is just really solid for a cheap addon. Not much else to say.
Old Newspaper (Grey) - Slightly longer invisibility after manifesting to make it last about a full second. It's okay. Fills the role of a grey addon.
Mother's Mirror (Grey) - Longer intermittent visibility duration after manifesting by a full two seconds. Pairs good with Old Newspaper or Well Water for mind games around pallets and loops.
Cabin Sign (Grey) - Effectively 10% off the TV cooldown to turn back on after teleporting to them. I know this is a grey addon, but it's honestly quite terrible. Going from 45 seconds to 40.5 just isn't worth even the grey addon when you will have a ton of yellow and green ones to use instead. I think 9 seconds being shaved off would be pretty good.
Yoichi's Fishing Net (Yellow) - An addon that got indirectly buffed with the 3.0 lock-in mechanic with her condemn. If you lock a survivor in with four stacks, they are permanently blind for the rest of the match with no hope of removing it. That's pretty dang strong and certainly gets people to want to remove their stacks before they're there for good. Blindness is really strong and so is this addon to cause confusion among survivors.
Well Stone (Yellow) - Basically Cabin Sign except it's 10% off of the cooldown for when survivors turn off the TVs themselves. Making it 63 seconds from 70 is alright. I'm still leaning towards a 20% so then it'd be 56 seconds instead to make these more worth using. This would also make it as a better pairing for the Iridescent Videotape to offset the penalty at the cost of an addon slot.
Sea-soaked Cloth (Yellow) - A potentially useful but really bad addon in practice that only affects the survivors who really ignore the TVs and are close enough to be affected by it. The TV aura and condemn range is 16 meters, but this only takes effect for when within 8 meters of the TV. It lingers for 7 seconds after turning off the TV, but it's just nonexistent outside of that range and there's always Yoichi's Fishing Net in this same rarity category to apply it for much longer. Honestly, I'd like to see this be reworked into something like Pig's Rule Set No.2 addon and have it hide TV auras to anyone without a tape. If not that, then a range increase would be good enough alongside a smaller-linger effect for when walking outside of the range.
Reiko's Watch (Yellow) - Intermittent invisibility becomes 1.5 seconds instead of 1.2 seconds when demanifested. It's just a really solid mind game addon for when sneaking around corners towards a survivor. Cheap and effective.
Clump of Hair (Yellow) - Bringing the visibility range of a demanifested Sadako from 24 meters to 18 meters. This is pretty nice, but I think it would be much better if it also affected her lullaby range as well. This would make it much better for sneaking close to survivors who know how to listen for her approaching and for using it on indoor maps when lines of sight aren't as important.
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I was wondering about this today and did some searching and found this post.
If it's bugged, then it should definitely be added back in.
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@Peanits said:
Hey folks. It’s clear that the changes we’re making to The Onryo didn’t live up to expectations, so we’re preparing a series of follow-up adjustments to address the feedback we’ve received. These adjustments are planned to release as part of the minor updates in the weeks following the Mid-Chapter. We’ll share more details once we've got a plan locked in.
At the very least, please revert the nerfs she was just given. They were highly uncalled for and only punished survivors who refused to counter her power, and countering her power was only made easier in the 3.0 version of her. That's why it was generally thought that she was in a healthier state to being rather weak against competent players.
Nowhere in the Onryo Feedback thread did anyone suggest that she was overtuned in any capacity. Of course it didn't live up to expectations.
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The Onryo changes are looking quite promising so far. Anxiously awaiting the PTB to decide for sure, but the blending of the old and new Sadako kits is really creative in concept. Having condemned be locked down on someone with 5 or 6 stacks would be pretty brutal by the sound of it.