Marcus
Marcus
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- Username
- Marcus
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@Rivyn said:
Tru3?
No, I didn't put him. It was someone else.
And I didn't ask who I put to play, I ask how evil am I for that.
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Decisive Strike
Borrowed Time
Dead Hard/Balanced Landing
Adrenaline.
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On what is based this tier list ? Design or game play wise ? On how they look ? How good are for killers ? Or how good are for survivors ?
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@AzdrubaelVect said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/604208#Comment_604208
Legion missing and therefore cancelling his frenzy (which makes no sense) was truetalent's idea because this guy is OBSESSED with "skillful" play in a casualgame meant to be played for 1-2 hours before playing something else.
That even was such bad nerf for Legion, I am fine with it.
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@AzdrubaelVect said:
The last time a fog whisperer suggested a change and the change was implemented, it completely destroyed a killer.
I'm gonna pass.
When that happened ?
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599541#Comment_599541
Thats not really true they have done some great changes in the past the Hag for one and just recently the Freddy rework. Then there is the spirit and Huntress.
I don't count Legion, Plague or Ghostface I feel they just weren't that well designed from the start imo. Legion imo should have a Freddy type rework and a whole new power and it was a killer which probably started from idea from the community. There were quite a few posts in the past asking for a killer that could jump pallets and windows. The others were given a power which put its strongest part into the survivors hands.
Personally I wish for them to slow down a bit and take more time with the dlc's as the best ones took more thought.
With Legion I see it as an example of what the community wants doesnt always turn out good for the game.
That on top of all the nerfs and buffs on both sides to try and make it more balanced.
They literally nerfed indirectly Huntress with every map update. Her pool of good maps is almost non existent now. There are maps where she doesn't get cuck too much and maps that completely destroy her.
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Yeah, there is no reason to run Brutal Strength when Enduring + Spirit Fury. And now that they fixed Enduring, the pallet stun duration is really shirt with it.
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Plague with Black Incense and an Apple is really fun and strong. Or Plague with Iridescent Seal and Tinkerer is also scary.
Spirit with Bloody Hair Brooch and Wakizashi Saya is also pretty fun and pretty broken if you ask me ( you can literally land unavoidable hits and you don't need any prediction or skill whatsoever and I don't think there is a loop or building these add-ons can't counter ).
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If keys are fair from survivors point of view, then EGC is also fair.
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Ghost Face buffs needed in my opinion : Object of Obsession doesn't work while he is in Night Shroud and shorter cooldown. The fact that he can be revealed easily wouldn't matter so much if his cooldown wouldn't been so punishing.
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They probably even aren't 100% sure about what they want to do right now with Nurse.
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@thesuicidefox said:
Ghostface. IMO he is way more fun than Plague (as much as I love her), and he's actually a strong killer. A lot of people here say he's not because survivors can break your stalk, but he really is. He has stealth, one shot, and tracking. His power has a lot of utility and let's you employ different tactics over the course of a game. You just need to learn to use all the aspects of his power and understand survivor perspective so that you can break direct LOS to stop the break out.
But Plague is a good pick too. She's just not that strong at the end of the day because good survivors will just stay Broken and you never get Corrupt Purge, which is where her strength really lies. You can counter this by running Thana and apple add-ons (they make a fountain start corrupted), but if they are really good survivors you will only get 2 Corrupts at most (double apples) so you need to use them perfectly.
But an Apple used correctly can win you the match and can make survivors start cleansing, because they are 1 shot against your Corrupt Purge and they can't even hide, because they make a lot of noises and even Iron Will can't counter that.
Black Incense is also a counter to no cleansing meta ( ultra rare add-on tho, but a really strong one ).
You can get your Corrupt Purge 5 times without nobody cleansing by running Iridescent Seal.
And Plague also has instant down and tracking, but instead of stealth, she has a range attack, which is better.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Marcus Discordance can force survivors to split up to do gens. As the game goes on this becomes more and more difficult, so when there are 1 or 2 gens left to do they are basically forced to proc it. As long as you prioritize that Discord proc you can prevent them from doing gens. Surveillance is very similar, and also holds value regardless of the survivor's skill.
As for M&A + IF, yea there is value but it requires 2 perks. You're not getting value from M&A alone, it's mostly IF, and you can achieve a similar result with Distressing. Not to mention that at 40m IF is rather easy to dodge. You're going to spend a lot of time looking for the survivor because it will take you roughly 9 seconds just to get to the position where they screamed. You are actually better off not even using M&A and just going with IF, because you're not going to capitalize on someone screaming really far away, only if they are relatively close can you even find them.
BBQ still has value at high levels because of the BP boost. It is easy to dodge, but it's so common that some survivors will just ignore it and continue doing whatever it was they were doing anyway, so you can use it to keep tabs on them. So there is more value there than what you'd get from M&A. Ruin also still has value because it forces them to hit great skill checks and can slow them down a little bit if they fail just 1 or 2. At the end of the day, both of these perks have LESS value than usual against good survivors (as any perk would), but there is still something of value there. M&A has 0 value against those same survivors.
@AChaoticKiller LOL, yet survivors can see around corners because they have a third person camera. And you act like it's hard to track a killers movement, it's really not. If you know where the killer was then you can predict the path they will take because it should be the shortest path. All the survivor needs to know is that you have M&A, so the moment they hear a hearbeat they know you are much closer than you would be normally, and with a third person camera they will likely see you long before you see them. I'm telling you M&A is worthless against good survivors. It's a gimmick.
@IamFran So then if I run Boil Over, and majority of killers can't get me to a hook, what will my conclusion be? That Boil Over is a good perk. But it's not. It's a garbo perk, because any good (or just decent) killer will know where hooks spawn and/or will be taking mental notes of where they see hooks, making it useless against players that know how to counter it. DS, on the other hand, can be countered but that counter is to slug the player. You get value out of the perk regardless if the killer knows you have it because it forces them to waste time. Just because it works against a lot of players doesn't actually make it a good perk. What makes something a good perk is that it has tangible results regardless of the skill of the opponent. Hence why I bring up stuff like Pop and Whispers, because it still hurt good survivors.
I already said this combo has more value on certain killers ( Nurse, Billy, Myers, Plague ). Also, with 40 meters of trigger range you can be sure nobody isn't in BBQ counter range when you hook someone.
Why I would run Distressing, that perk is garbage, it makes you easier to stealth, at least Monitor and Abuse doesn't hurt you in any way.
Discordance is garbage against good survivors, period. I literally saw multiple matches where Discordance didn't even activate once, just once ! You can't even say it slowed down the game because repairing gens solo is more effective than repairing them together. I really don't want to look for these matches, but if you keep insisting that "Discordance is good regardless of survivors skill" then I have to. Discordance is very overrated, end of disscussion.
The fact that BBQ grants me more BP doesn't have any value game play wise, because I talk about perks strength in game. Good survivors even run Object of Obsession because they don't care if they are seen, so in that case you don't need BBQ to find them. Also, even if they want to hide from BBQ, they can, because BBQ has a miriad of counters.
If survivors spawn on top of Ruin, that perk won't have any value for you. And no, I don't treat 15 seconds for cleansing a totem in exchange for killer having 3 perks for the rest of the match as valuable.
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@Peanits said:
Between the two, I would probably go Ghost Face. He's anything but weak, he's above Myers right now.
If you factor survivor perks into it, the Plague ain't bad either. Head On is by far my favourite perk these days.
Care to explain why you think Ghost Face is stronger than Myers in your opinion ?
Myers gets 1 minute instant down for all survivors, faster vault speed and longer lunge. Also, with the combo between Monitor and Abuse + Infectious Fright he can destroy an entire team in that minute.
Ghost Face gets 45 seconds instant down on a single survivor and nothing else. He has a better stealth and a faster stalk, but that simply doesn't matter when his stealth is completely countered by Object of Obsession and his power has a 30 seconds cooldown, meaning that he might waste as much or even more time than Myers in trying to get his instant down if the survivor can cancel his ability even just once, which usually happen because his reveal mechanics works against him usually.
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I would say Plague is stronger, but you can get her with shards. But Ghost Face can be really frustrating to play because of his stupid mechanics.
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@Awakey said:
I think it's great. Freddy is now one of only a few killers who's only as good as the person playing them.
Sincerely, just Nurse and Spirit deserve to be in that category.
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The PTB will probably be at the end of the August and the live version will be at the start of September.
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His gen teleport is very good to keep pressure on them with gen perks like Pop Goes the Weasel and even to play mind games with survivors.
I would say that both of his other abilities, Dream Snares and Dream Pallets, are situational and you need survivors messing up to be able to use them properly, so overall he is a M1 killer with gen teleport, which is still better than almost any other M1 killer just because of his gen teleport, but still, I don't think he is top tier. B tier seems like a fair placement for Freddy I would say.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/602756#Comment_602756
The difference is that there are perks that have tangible effects survivors can't ignore. Pop is one of those perks. Good survivors can play around it, but at the end of the day they will lose 25% gen progress when you kick it. The only counter play there is to commit to finishing gens when you have the chance. It still has value against good survivors, whereas M&A has none.
Whispers is another example. It's really hard to tell a killer even has it. But even when you know, it's not easy to dodge. And even if you attempt to dodge it a good killer will still find you. It has value regardless of the level of survivors you are up against.
Yet another example is Discordance. Survivors can know you have this perk but there will be a time where they will need to team up on gens. And if they avoid teaming up on gens to dodge Discordance, you still benefit as killer, therefore it still holds value.
Also, Ruin and BBQ can be ignored or play arounded very easily by good survivors and yet they still meta and used by almost all killers.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/602756#Comment_602756
The difference is that there are perks that have tangible effects survivors can't ignore. Pop is one of those perks. Good survivors can play around it, but at the end of the day they will lose 25% gen progress when you kick it. The only counter play there is to commit to finishing gens when you have the chance. It still has value against good survivors, whereas M&A has none.
Whispers is another example. It's really hard to tell a killer even has it. But even when you know, it's not easy to dodge. And even if you attempt to dodge it a good killer will still find you. It has value regardless of the level of survivors you are up against.
Yet another example is Discordance. Survivors can know you have this perk but there will be a time where they will need to team up on gens. And if they avoid teaming up on gens to dodge Discordance, you still benefit as killer, therefore it still holds value.
Agree with Pop and Whispers, but disagree with Discordance, I think it's very overrated, it's too easy avoidable, it seems like it activates once per match and then survivors ignore it completely, because usually survivors do gens solo unless they spawn together.
Also, the combo Monitor and Abuse + Infectious Fright will clearly have value even against good survivors unless you play on a very big map like Rotten Fields or survivors run Calm Spirit, but nobody runs that anyway.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/602286#Comment_602286
I'm talking about playing as a GOOD SURVIVOR.
Once you know the killer has M&A it is super easy to beat. Doesn't matter how good the killer is, if you are a good survivor you can counter play M&A very easy. It's called game awareness.
Also I see Spine Chill quite often as a rank 1 survivor. I use it myself and I know many others that use it also. This besides the fact you don't need it to counter M&A, it just makes it way easier.
Fact is, no good survivor will fall for this gimmick of a perk. But majority of survivors are not good survivors, so killers get this false impression that the perk is way better than it actually is. This is the same fallacy as something like Sloppy, which is USELESS against good survivors that just play the whole game injured. It only has value when survivors heal, which again are generally the not good survivors.
@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/602286#Comment_602286
I'm talking about playing as a GOOD SURVIVOR.
Once you know the killer has M&A it is super easy to beat. Doesn't matter how good the killer is, if you are a good survivor you can counter play M&A very easy. It's called game awareness.
Also I see Spine Chill quite often as a rank 1 survivor. I use it myself and I know many others that use it also. This besides the fact you don't need it to counter M&A, it just makes it way easier.
Fact is, no good survivor will fall for this gimmick of a perk. But majority of survivors are not good survivors, so killers get this false impression that the perk is way better than it actually is. This is the same fallacy as something like Sloppy, which is USELESS against good survivors that just play the whole game injured. It only has value when survivors heal, which again are generally the not good survivors.
Good survivors can make almost every killer perk useless, stop bringing up this argument.
I bet you can't tell me 5 killer perks which don't lose a lot of their effectiveness against good survivors, or even just 3.
I barely see Spine Chill in red ranks. This is what I see in red ranks : exhaustion perks, Adrenaline, BT, DS and Iron Will. In 10 matches if I see 2 Spine Chill users at best.
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@Orion said:
Funny how people like to pretend I said something I didn't. Those perks aren't toxic, but they are frustrating to go against. Add teabagging to the mix and it leads to comments like the ones in the screenshots.
I can't understand how Self Care is frustrating to go against.
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Legion is punished harder than Nurse for using his power and his power gets countered by survivors spreading out ( which is the most effective way to play ).
Being better than before doesn't mean much because old Legion was garbage without moonwalking or Frank's Mix Tape.
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@thesuicidefox said:
IMHO it is way overrated. It makes absolutely no difference against good survivors because they will notice the change in your TR and realize you have M&A, which then changes their strategies. I really don't ever find myself falling for the smaller TR because if you suspect the killer has M&A you just make an extra effort to track them visually or by some other means (Spine Chill).
The only killer who gets actual tangible and consistent value from M&A is Myers, and that's mostly because of how it combos with Dead Rabbit. His TR is so small at this point that you can actually get the drop on good survivors if you understand LOS and survivor's perspective.
Hag and Spirit can get some value from it too, to a lesser extent, because they have already a small TR. But even then it can be countered by good positioning and awareness as survivor.
But for any 32m TR killer, M&A is a meme to me. Sure it may help against the 90% of survivors that are trash at the game, but against a good survivor it means nothing. I honestly laugh whenever I see a normie killer run this perk because it's an absolute waste or a perk slot.
Also, your point of view doesn't make any sense, because you said that Monitor and Abuse is good against trash survivors and you said that 90% of survivors are trash, so pretty much Monitor and Abuse is worth using in 90% of the time.
Also, guess what, almost all killers perks means nothing against good survivors.
Hex perks means nothing against good survivors.
Barbecue and Chilli means nothing against good survivors.
Discordance means nothing against good survivors.
Corrupt Intervention means nothing against good survivors.
And I could go on all day ...
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@switch said:
Small adjustments to be made, but i'm impressed, the best tier list i've seen on this forum.
I like you, clown is where he should be .
Oh, thank you ❤️.
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@thesuicidefox said:
IMHO it is way overrated. It makes absolutely no difference against good survivors because they will notice the change in your TR and realize you have M&A, which then changes their strategies. I really don't ever find myself falling for the smaller TR because if you suspect the killer has M&A you just make an extra effort to track them visually or by some other means (Spine Chill).
The only killer who gets actual tangible and consistent value from M&A is Myers, and that's mostly because of how it combos with Dead Rabbit. His TR is so small at this point that you can actually get the drop on good survivors if you understand LOS and survivor's perspective.
Hag and Spirit can get some value from it too, to a lesser extent, because they have already a small TR. But even then it can be countered by good positioning and awareness as survivor.
But for any 32m TR killer, M&A is a meme to me. Sure it may help against the 90% of survivors that are trash at the game, but against a good survivor it means nothing. I honestly laugh whenever I see a normie killer run this perk because it's an absolute waste or a perk slot.
Monitor and Abuse + Infectious Fright is really strong, especially on some killers ( Nurse with range add-ons, Myers with Dead Rabbit, Hillbilly, Plague ). The fact that you got a lower TR and FOV increase on top of a crazy snow ball effect makes Monitor and Abuse worth it.
Monitor and Abuse + Whispers is also a good combo on Pig, so you know when to crouch, so you don't waste time crouching.
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@Onionthing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/602127#Comment_602127
I agree Plague is B
I agree that with green and higher add-ons she can be pretty strong ( Black Incense + Apple is pretty "broken" ), but at base she's lacking a little and she can struggle if she doesn't make everyone broken very quickly. But she has potential to be B tier.
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@GrootDude said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/341/G693KSCUABCB.jpeg
Trapper is underrated. Not the best but not the worst.
As devs already said, you shouldn't base your conclusions on stats alone. Did you ever played add-onless Trapper ? Probably the most painful thing in the game. And even add-ons don't help him too much.
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@Ember_Hunter said:
Day of the ultimate battle if approaching tomorrow (and also my last week of summer vacation RIP) *-*
Last weak of summer vacation for you ?
I still have 6 weeks, LOL.
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Mettle of Man is trash now.
Better buy Legion instead of Ash LOL.
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Maybe just have fun instead of just being afraid of playing a match because you might lose ? Remember, you win some and you lose some. You don't need to dodge every killer and you can always learn from your mistakes from the previously matches to get better, you don't need to be so stressful of playing a video game.
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Old opinions :
1 Nurse is no way the best killer in the game, she is way to easy to juke ( me after watching rank 15 Nurses playing ).
2 Hex:Ruin + Hex:Thrill of the Hunt is the best combo in the game.
3 Self Care and Sprint Burst are the best perks in the game.
4 Adrenaline and Dead Hard are bad and overrated perks.
5 Huntress is a top 3 killer ( I didn't believe that anymore after Spirit was buffed in the mid chapter ).
6 Billy is the second best killer ( I start to believe Billy isn't that good and Spirit is better, especially after they fixed sounds).
7 Trapper and Clown are mid tier.
I could go on, but these are the most important ones.
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You joking right ? I see at least 2 threads per week about people complaining about Spirit having no counter play.
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Replace Bitter Murmur with Infectious Fright and you have a build right there.
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Infectious Fright, especially good in combo with Monitor and Abuse. You already have 2 stall perks ( Thanatophobia and Pop Goes the Weasel ), so now you need a snow ball perk and Infectious Fright is the perfect one, especially after it got buffed to trigger with Corrupt Purge.
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@Jdsgames said:
Noed run Noed get them every time <3
NOED is worthless on Plague because of nature of her power.
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Well, OoO counters everyone who isn't Nurse or Spirit, so good luck with other killers.
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I think they're gonna buff his base kit and cuange some of his add-ons and probably add a second ultra rare.
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If this experiment has something to do with Spirit's shiny shards bug then give up, he already thinks that is NOT a counter to Spirit.
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@LordGlint said:
Probably still not gonna be very useful to huntress, since her TR is only 20 meters.
And she has a ranged attack, so she is able to down people outside of her terror radius 😁.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Thing is, killers wouldnt need to become slow killers to get "good" powers if the devs wouldn't cuddle survivors for not wanting to go against un-"fun" killers.
Cant have normal speed plus good ability. Think about the bad survivor potatoes ( but not the good ones who spit on any killer not wearing bonesaws).
And to be honest... In my opinion most of the newer killers have bad abilities, even spirit.
While arguably her inability to see survivors while haunting is "balanced" because she can attack instantly, it doesnt excuse the fact she needs a damn addon to see blood.
She is fine without seeing blood, she can hear breathing, groans and footsteps.
Also, her add-on for seeing blood even isn't that good, it's more like a training wheel.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Whats wrong with wanting a normal speed killer with a good ability?
For the longest time Hillbilly was considered the best example of a balanced killer.
Slow killers become severely crippled when their ability cannot be used correctly.
Well, it's nothing wrong with that. But as it seems devs don't want to make anymore strong 115% speed killers, Billy being the only one which is in top tier. While a 110% speed killer is more likely to get a good power, so they can make up for their slow speed.
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I expect very rare and ultra rare add-ons for Nurse to aplly Hemorrhage and Blindness status effect, like the very powerful Block add-ons /s.
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Also, rainbow maps and maps with specific add-ons should detect Dream Snares and Dream Pallets.
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They won't rework him completely.
His gonna receive some changes in his base kit and some of his add-ons are gonna be changed and he probably he is gonna get a another UR.
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@CyberianFaux said:
Why overreact and be so melodramatic? If you need Omega blink nurse, 3 blink with increased range, etc. to dominate any team at all, you aren't good enough at Nurse. I am of the same mindset of Tru3Ta1ent that add-ons break her. She shouldn't be able to use more than 2 blinks, much less up to 5 (albeit really short ones). She should be a high skill cap high reward killer which she is without add-ons against good teams. With that said, they are mainly giving her ultra rare add-ons anyways making her even stronger in all likelihood with them since they have planned on giving every killer ultra rares from the get go.
Ultra rare add-ons can be trash, you know ? ( Pig's UR best example )
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His Lullaby is one of the reasons for why you should wake up. So wake up constantly if it mind you so much, you have plenty of ways.
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If you DC when you hear a Lullaby, then maybe you are the problem.
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They can't nerf Freddy, because that would mean to destroy their entire rework over an entire year.
Freddy still isn't in top tier, so he shouldn't be targeted. He is probably in a pretty good spot right now.
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Infectious Fright was heavily buffed in this patch, LMAO.