MadLordJack
MadLordJack
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It literally says "current", as in "at the moment of activation".
And it's an insanely good perk, so it really should stay that way.
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Interesting. So the perk wasn't even remotely needed to escape and people really were just being obnoxious.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2199321#Comment_2199321
Why just under pallets? Put them at any choke point, loop, or high traffic area, then drive survivors into them. Traps are extremely difficult to see while sprinting when place in grass. You can't see the other side of vaults, down drops, or around corners either. They're really not hard to hide, or at least to put in locations that may be visible, but that deny key areas. Survivors can't do anything about a trap while in a chase, so seeing one only really helps if there's an alternate route available to you that won't end in a quick hit.
If a survivor somehow has a lot of distance on you, you're at the edge of the map, and they're moving towards an untrapped area in the center of the map, just drop chase. No low-mobility killer, including every other killer in this poll, can quickly deal with that.
I'm starting to think this much be a cultural thing, because what you are mentioning will ever work against a team that is holding W and predropping.
You, as the trapper, have about 5 minutes before the gens are done, assuming you're going against an average team. You have no way of knowing what survivors you are going against, and if they're predrop-and-W gamers it doesn't matter. You might get one or two traps off throughout the entire game, and even then you're relying on survivors making bad plays like vaulting windows or running through long grass whilst looking behind them (for some reason, they're holding W, they have no reason to). There are no choke points to trap, because they won't use them. But you probably wasted your own time setting up traps there anyway, only for them to be completely ignored.
You are assuming there is such a thing as a key area. There isn't. Not at all. All survivors have to do is run away in a striaght line and they will win, there's no stopping that as an m1 killer. Predropping pallets is just a bonus. And Trapper doubles down on his helplessness by wasting his own time setting up useless traps. He is entirely reliant on survivors actually trying to loop him, a completely uneseccary action.
Edit: By "cultural thing", I mean no servers seem to get super efficient predrop-and-W nearly as much as AU servers from what I've been told and experienced.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2199333#Comment_2199333
But for that, I have the same issue as I did with the Borrowed Time challenge, or the 'be undetected within 10 meters of the killer for 60 seconds as Dwight' challenge. Rift challenges shouldn't be encouraging players to play like asshats and screw over other players for the sake of their challenge. It's bad design unless they genuinely don't care about what they're incentivizing. Given how Corrupt Purge can't be bodyblocked, this challenge may as well have been "facecamp a hook as Bubba 2 times in one game" and the effect would be the same. (Or hit two survivors in one chainsaw sweep, but that's the same issue as Corrupt Purge - it's rare you'll find two survivors right next to each other and moving in the same direction in any other situation.)
Then every challenge would be almost identical, because you're never going to just play normally and wait for the right moment, you're always going to force it so you can get it over with and move on and that's almost always going to screw someone over.
Besides, one of the oldest and most effective Plague plays is to hook someone a perfect distance away from a fountain (about BBQ distance, 40 or so metres), drink up, and come back in time to devestate the save because everyone expects either camping or saintlike 12-hooking.
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You have to just hold W against him. I've been mind of enjoying it recently because every PH I go against falls for mindgames at pallets and windows, not that it's really counterplay. They could just not automatically assume I'm going to take or fake the pallet.
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That's pretty easy. Hooks exist, as does basement. Give it a few trials and you should have it done.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198589#Comment_2198589
The early game can be significantly helped by CI. You can't just hold W through a section of the map that has already been trapped, and since CI forces survivors to come towards where the killer spawns (or to do secondary objectives while they set up) even the first survivor chased will be at risk of getting trapped. The second a survivor can't verify a section of map is free of traps, survivor behavior will change, as in my example about not wanting to vault shack window against a Trapper.
Once a Trapper is set up, predropping pallets and holding W are both pretty well countered by bear traps. It's also not a good strategy against a trap-based killer because holding W away just increases the amount of distinct areas of the map you're going to cover during the chase. The odds of stepping in a bear trap are going to be higher if you're immediately running somewhere else rather than staying in a loop you've confirmed is safe for as long as you reasonably can. Predropping pallets and holding W makes more sense against killers that are very deadly in the chase but that have poor mobility, like Deathslinger. Trapper is loopable until he places a trap, so it's not a great strategy against him.
That aside, though, his snowball is one of the best in the game. A single basement hook can easily win a game, even when the Trapper is behind. Other lower tier killers like Clown or Legion can't do that. He can be effective even on maps where traps are relatively easy to see with intelligent trap placement. For example, on maps with no grass like The Game and Hawkins, you could trap the drops from the upper floors or place traps right around corners so that survivors don't have a chance to react to them.
How do beartraps counter survivors that don't loop? By putting them under pallets? Then they just see them and W away.
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Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer/Infectious Fright is his strongest build. He has no counterplay in most loops except short ones like path pallets, cars and junk tiles. At most loops you kind of just play them normally and if the Blight is good, you get hits if they aren't, you don't. If they flick, Blight has no real counterplay and it's pure guesswork a la Spirit.
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Nurse, because people are blindly hypocritical and pretend her initial skill floor makes her okay but Deathslinger is OP trash despite requiring much better aim, game sense, and far more intense trials. Maybe I'm just a natural at Nurse, but I don't think so. It took me a bit to learn her and now my couple of dozen hours can steamroll teams with ten thousand unless they do all the gens in 3 minutes.
Bubba, because Bamboozle.
Doctor, because annoying. And slow.
Deathslinger, because annoying. Also really ######### hard.
Ghostface, because double bugged. Also the meta shifted past him in a massive way.
Billy, because mega frustrating.
Trickster because boring. Really, really boring. If I wanted to play an average killer I'll go play someone with a more dynamic chase than "hold W".
Twins because extremely weak unless you're facecamping or slaughtering potatoes that don't know what lockers or pairs are.
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@aurum_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198870#Comment_2198870
No. Usually in these type of games, the killer is able to down at least a couple before the third gen is complete. One game, for example, i was facing a P3 Legion, who lost 3 generators in a couple of chases. Of course he is not doing his job, that isn't only "killing" survivors but also deviate them from doing gens. And then i read these excuse: "you genrushers!". Lmao. What am i supposed to do? XD
Well, hopefully you're not predropping pallets and holding W, that's easy confused with genrushing because it has equally little counterplay and usually goes hand-in-hand. But mostly it's just the fact that two years ago the average length of a trial was about 15 minutes and now it's around 7-8.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198856#Comment_2198856
Only perk I crutch on is bond. Can’t play solo without it
My new one is OoO. I just cannot take it off. I pumped 2M BP into Yui just so I could get it to tier 3.
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Are you leaving teammates to hang whilst completing all gens in 3 minutes and leaving?
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198126#Comment_2198126
As someone who never uses exhaustion perks you’re pretty much right.
Ill be hit by pig toxin, huntress toxin, blood echo and mindbreaker and it doesn’t matter
I also never use them. I fell into the trap of wanting them every trial and panic-quit before it became an addiction and I started genuinely crutching on them.
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@Pulsar said:
Until the objective power of SWF is addressed either via a nerf (somehow) or by buffing Solo Q, we shouldn't adjust anymore Killers.
Every rework either solidifies SWF'S state in the game or makes the Solo experience more miserable.
No new Killer reworks should be done until we make Solo = SWF.
Once they are on an even playing field, we can talk about more reworks.
I mean, we should definitely adjust some killers. Nurse is pretty low on the list, but Spirit and Hag could use some QoL changes (on both sides).
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198216#Comment_2198216
Tbf tracking is one of nurses “weaknesses” so having 1 tracking perk never hurts.
I know from my experience in solo and SWF that the few good plagues I’ve fought have absolutely decimated the team. Same applies to nurse but plague does still have to play the game normally
Yeah, and you know what Nurses best perk is? The tracking perk that doubles as game slowdown (Infectious Fright).
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198489#Comment_2198489
The issues with this post:
Survivors have transferrable skills that are 100% transferable. Killers more like 60-70% transferable.
Its a lot easier to win as a survivor than a killer due to the fact there is 4 of you to pick up the slack rather than the solo killer.
Killers such as nurse require a lot more time to get REALLY good at them, more so than survivors. This means that they often are more powerful than your average killer. The issue is, especially with nurse, that if you want a chance to compete you need to spend hundreds of hours on one killer to beat someone with 2000 hours will probably have a good match against a 800 hour nurse with around 2500-3000 hours in general, as nurse is rarely the first one you pick up due to her difficulty.
I'm not complaining, I just wish that a good killer players playing any killer could go against a good survivor player and stand a chance. Since we can't swap killers after launching queue this is an issue, as I can't swap in and out of my deathsquad killers (nurse,hag and deathslinger) for more experienced players/swf and nicer killers (huntress, clown, trapper) for less experienced. I feel constantly forced to sweat for the win, and it's not fun.
Difficulty and balance have nothing to do with one another. That makes absolutely no sense. Balance is what can physically happen, not how hard it is to make it happen. If it was, the community would be insisting that Nurse is the weakest killer in the game.
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Good survivors don't need exhaustion perks, so it kind of doesn't do much. But, it still does something, so it's not completely useless.
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Technically it was about 4-5 hours, but that was the last iteration of Nurse (where she was really forgiving of missed blinks). Then she got nerfed, I quit playing her, picked her back up and kept killing everyone.
Edit: initially learning her took place across a couple of evenings, but it was about 4-5 hours total.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm actually surprised I'm the only one to say Clown. Trapper is inherently luck-based, but you can help make your own luck with good trap placement. The mere threat of traps can also help shut down strong loops. Like, as a survivor, let's say you're healthy and a Trapper is chasing you through shack. Are you going to vault that window? I dunno about you, but I'm absolutely not going to. I'd rather take a hit and run out the door than vault into one of the most no-brainer trap locations in the game and risk being downed and dropped in the basement. The threat of traps can also passively slow people down when traversing the map, and it can force mistakes from people in the chase because they're spending so much time looking at their feet that they don't spend enough time planning their route to the next tile.
Clown is great in the 1v1, and I honestly don't think he's a bad killer. I just think he's more one-dimensional than other killers. We're just lucky enough to be playing DBD in a day and age where even the worst killers are still viable.
It's because Trapper has a terrible early game and is hard countered by the most complex and difficult strategy of all... Using the W key.
Good traps won't help against predropped pallets and good old runnkng away in a striaght line. And that's assuming you got a map where you could hide your traps.
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I love people insisting Plague is weak.
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I would love to see a banshee from Mass Effect in DbD. It may not be a horror series, but the ardat-yakshi monestary mission was just genuinely and unexpectedly disturbing.
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He's like if Huntress and Deathslinger had a demented fungus pet that kind of plays like Bubba. There's not much you can do in most situations except drop pallets, and now the glasses add-on makes even that weak.
It's also not a very recent development, this has been an issue with him since his release, it's just that most Demo's suck because they don't want to put in the time to learn him.
Or should I say, they did suck. Now he has two lovely comfort add-ons.
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@NightmareKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198250#Comment_2198250
If the killer wants you dead, you still can escape. The entire map is designed so survivors can survive. You have pallets everywhere, windows, lockers, etc.
He got caught, the killer hooked him, his teammates refused to unhook him. Sucks, but it was his fault. The killer didn't tunnel him out of thin air, he must have been the first one to die.
That's not how DbD works. At all. Survivors use resources to extend chases, and they very quickly run out of those resources no matter how good they are. An amazing survivor can make a chase last maybe 5-6 minutes agasint a mediocre killer. But that killer can still facecamp them to death and nothing the survivor did caused or could possibly prevent that because no matter what the survivor is going to go down.
Is that a good play from the killer? No, the killer was clearly garbage. But it doesn't change the fact that that survivor is dead through no fault of their own, and this is absolutely common at lower ranks. Killers taking petty kills because there's nothing survivors can do to stop them.
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@NightmareKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198466#Comment_2198466
You don't just "learn" to play Nurse and Spirit, they are not simple killers and a single mistake with their power can cost you the entire match.
Killers don't counter anything, players do. If you see good Spirits and good Nurses then the players must have spent hundreds of hours playing them. So no, Spirit and Nurse don't counter SWF.
Oh my gods, you actually are! You're honestly complaining about having to learn to play killers! Oh dear, this deserves a big fat Git Gud.
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Legion is actually a lot stronger than people want to think. M1 gameplay has been buffed over the last year or two, their power is literally the ability to track, isolate and kill people, and they have in-built slowdown. It's just that people like to only use their power to injure and never think to track or vault.
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@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198440#Comment_2198440
I am already saying Spirit needs nerf. Nurse is not problem because learning her is really hard but if devs would rework her, i would not say no.
And only 2 killers can fight againts this design. Other killers have to be show more effort.
They still exist, meaning that it's more of a matchmaking issue than a balance issue.
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@NightmareKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198440#Comment_2198440
I wonder when will people stop saying the killer counters those SWF teams. Last I checked I don't immediatly become a pro Spirit or Nurse just because I picked them against a pro SWF.
So those killers don't counter anything. The player does. My Nurse can't counter not even 4 baby dwights crouching on the corners of the map.
Are you seriously complaining about having to learn to play a killer, or are you not understanding the concept of unbalanced matchmaking, which doesn't actually make a game overall unbalanced?
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@Northener1907 said:
Game is survivor-sided. Maps, loop areas, strong meta perks, gen times etc all balanced for survivors. But most survivors do not know how loop.
I mean if you keep busy killer for 1 minute, other 3 will finish 3 gens. That is mean killer will lose game. Which killer can fight against this design. But most survivors are not good at looping and for that killers having wins.
If survivors would know how to use maps well and pallets, most games would end 3 or 4 escapes.
You're forgetting Nurse and Spirit. Especially Spirit with MDR/Yakuoke. Just as those teams exist, so do the killers that "counter" them.
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You probably dropped it too early. If the killer is in the animation then it doesn't count.
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@Haddix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198305#Comment_2198305
I'm not talking about status effects like Exposed though, just perk activation conditions specifically.
Oni used to be able to slug people with Knock-Out before the perk was nerfed, and I don't think it was ever an issue.
Knockout and Third Seal have always been issues because they're solo-bully perks.
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@GeneralV said:
I wouldn't mind if pallets were a little bit less safe than they currently are, but not like that.
My only problem is the reverse vacuum, but that's mostly a desync issue.
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Use Enduring.
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It's basic PR to refer to all characters, old and new, loved or hated, that generate enough interest, as "icons".
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Yeah, the survivor doesn't have to be in the killer's FoV to blind them because the angle is higher than the FoV. Kind of like reverse spine chill.
I wish they would rework Blinds to make them easier but less impactful. Right now, half the time the counterplay is just mass slugging and hoping they don't have Unbreakable.
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It's matchmaking-sided. Or genrushing SWF sided.
Edit: Like, actual genrushing SWF. Nurse can compete with 4-minute gens, but not 2.5-minute gens.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198224#Comment_2198224
That might actually make Dead Hard stronger. Dodging an imminent attack is the weakest use of Dead Hard - barring Huntress/Deathslinger shots, you don't buy yourself significant time by doing this, because you're still right next to the killer and they can just hit you again. The speed boost to the pallet or window lets you make it a few more rounds around your current loop, or even make it to another tile. Turning it into a pure 'gain distance on command', and increasing the amount of distance, makes the headachey part of this perk headachier while weakening the part that killers could afford not to care about.
Actually, using Dead Hard to dodge attacks is a lot stronger and a lot more common than people realise. A lot of killers cannot bait it out even remotely consistently because of the design of their power - Nurse, Spirit, Huntress, Deathslinger, Blight, Plague, etc. . At least making it an on-command dash only would put it in line with Sprint Burst as 'ridiculously strong but not ridiculously flexible'.
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@theplaggg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198100#Comment_2198100
Not you acting like Trickster is any good. Big maps destroy him. Even when you do have your godlike aim and survivors don't dodge your knives he's still slow and has no map pressure. He is no threat on range like Deathslinger or Huntress.
You can do good with Trickster but thats mostly on the survivors mistakes. He needs some major adjustments.
The only mistake survivors make against him is not slamming gens. In chases he's like a slower Deathslinger - it doesn't matter how good survivors are, they are going to go down. It's just that most Tricksters genuinely don't have good aim and don't really know how to play him.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198178#Comment_2198178
You're the first person I've seen claim that Plague is a top tier killer. Only thing I'm going to say is that I disagree (because I've seen zero evidence).
Lastly, the reason why good Nurses run tracking perks is because those are the perks that directly help a good Nurse. They aren't using those perks because they are bored.
Then you haven't been looking very hard. Otzdarva finally opened his communities eyes to how strong she is. I was so happy when everyone came in a few weeks (months?) back and started asking for Plague advice because they saw what she could do.
And no, tracking perks don't help more than, say, Ruin/Undying. It doesn't matter how good you are, strong perks are strong perks and no perks are banned, so... Nurse is pretty damn easy compared to Blight, Oni, Huntress, Plague, Bubba, Billy, even Hag...
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@Rivyn said:
I'd be for it, but we all know that would just increase dodging. Devs don't want that, so it won't happen. Then again, they tend to try and bury any complaints about SWF, as it's what makes them money.
A better option would be to show SWF in the post game lobby. At least then, you know who was who. Yet again, though, devs don't care.
They "don't care" because then there would be irrefutable proof that full parties and solo que need addressing and that the games balance is basically around 2-person teams.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198157#Comment_2198157
Sorry, but Plague doesn't require as much skill as the top tier killers. I just don't see it.
As for Nurse, you'd be surprised what a truly good Nurse is capable of. If we were having this conversation a few years ago, I could have referred you to Blinky Bill (one of the best Nurse streamers) so you could see firsthand what a really good Nurse looks like.
As a former Blight main and someone who is literally talking about how easy she finds Nurse, Plague is really, really hard. Because unlike most killers, she actually can win. She is actually one of the top killers, right there with Oni and Huntress just below Blight. Her only weakness is genrushing, a weakness shared by Nurse, Spirit and Blight.
And seriously, I know what a truly good Nurse can do, and it's completely unnecessary. People so those things because they find her boring AF to play and need something else to do. Why do you think good Nurses don't use slowdown or IF? They find it makes her way too easy.
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@Yords said:
They might have forgotten to tell you guys but you are supposed to bring a medkit with this build for it to really work.
Nah, you equip a key before you que up.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198110#Comment_2198110
Plague isn't a complicated killer. Billy and Huntress I agree take time to master. So does Nurse.
Everything I told you about Nurse is true. She requires a lot of experience to be genuinely proficient with. Even before her cool down nerf, Nurse has never been an easy killer to play. That's why so few people actually play her well.
The "mediocre blink skills" and "basic map knowledge" you speak of will not cut it against a full team of optimal survivors. Only experience can help you win those matches.
Firstly, Plague isn't easy. If she was, people wouldn't double take when I say I prefer to use her against deathsquads than any other killer. Having a low skill floor doesn't make a killer easy any more than a high skillfloor makes them hard.
Second.... Those teams you mentioned beat god nurses all the time. It's called "competitive DbD", and unless there's some massive limits to perks the survivors almost always win without even breaking a sweat no matter how fantastic the Nurse is. And normal DbD doesn't have perk limitations.
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That fine print is super hard to read.
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Dont swing, don't turn. If they have Lithe, you weren't going to hit them. Just back up a little.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198012#Comment_2198012
Head On and Balanced Landing are the worst, most niche exhaustion perks.
And they are two of the absolute strongest perks in the game. If Dead Hard and Sprint Burst were deleted, everyone would be using Lithe or Balanced Landing.
Edit: Head On is already pretty commonly used, I doubt that one would change.
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Or they could rework the unecessary and extremely strong mechanic that kind of ######### up the balance of the game by providing free distance and basically making survivors shoot themselves in the foot by not bringing them because they're so ######### ridiculous.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195914#Comment_2195914
I don't know which Nurse mains you talked to, but the general consensus from what I've seen is that Nurse is very hard to truly master. A lot of people estimate that it takes hundreds of hours to get really good with Nurse. That's because you have to develop muscle memory for each map. Learn how to adapt on the fly. Learn how to make predictions. etc...etc
These type of skills don't come easy unless you practice A LOT.
But... You don't need that at all. Other killers, like Plague, Billy or Huntress, you need to master. Nurse is so ######### nuts that mediocre blink skills and basic map knowledge will have you slaughtering almost everyone you come across without even really thinking about what you are doing. It doesn't take hundreds of hours to reach that point, it takes maybe a dozen. Then... whats left, flick Blinks? Getting slightly more accurate? Going for pointlessly fancy 1-blink hits?
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195724#Comment_2195724
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195724#Comment_2195724
4.4 vs 4.6 has basically no difference running in a straight line. It's usually the slightly slower running animations that make it feel much slower.
4.4 vs 4.6 has a MASSIVE impact on looping thanks to larger killer hitboxes. There's a reason you can loop a Trickster around a rock on Azarovs and he can't do anything but cirlce it 6 times and M1 you. Try using Hope against a M1 killer at a loop and you'll see how signficant 4-7% extra speed can be.
People don't want 115% on Trickster for map mobility. It'll make no difference. They want 115% so he isn't completely powerless on high wall tiles (which make up most pallet tiles on pretty much any map).
The OP was specifically calling out big maps. Also, people want Trickster to be 4.6 because they absolutely suck with him and don't want to adjust their playstyle or admit they cannot aim.
Seriously, for a killer that looks spray'n'pray, you really do have to be as accurate as Slinger or Huntress to do well.
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Spirit. I think she would be quite fun to play if she wasn't so awful to play against.
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@justbecause said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2196730#Comment_2196730
I know all of that I'm not brainless but team refuses to do objective to not get injured and once they do they immediately cleanse instead doing Infected gen or whatever that ain't no counter play whatsoever
You still should have taken steps to mitigate your involvement in the failure. For all you know, the teams plan was to force a reset and you're the one that got everyone killed by insisting on lone wolfing it.