MadLordJack
MadLordJack
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- MadLordJack
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Balance isn't the issue so much as unbalanced matchmaking. A Nurse can go into every trial and maybe lose 1.
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This video made me extremely sad because I was secretly hoping that we were all wrong and that Spirit in fact had tangible counterplay.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2209994#Comment_2209994
No way does she have as much range as Deathslinger.
She doesn't, Deathslinger has 18m. And I'm not sure how much range Plague has, but 15m is about the maximum distance you can get, though anything beyond 8m is just hoping the survivor isn't paying attention.
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@v4lor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210430#Comment_2210430
Did I say I was owed it? "I want" doesn't mean "I am entitled to". The literal title of the thread is "Can we get..." not "I DEMAND REEE".
It may as well be.
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I mean, why do survivors use 3-4 second chance perks every trial?
The correct answer, and one applicable to both that question and the one you asked for the exact same reasons, is: Why not?
(And yes, in this instance there really is a correct answer, it's not just an opinion. The opinions come after the question of 'Why Not?' is used to answer the initial question, but the initial question cannot be correctly answered with a specific statement because they are statements of opinion and not fact until such time as hard evidence is introduced into the argument and for the gods' sakes I don't know why I'm defending myself against accusations that will never be leveled at me and I'm just going to shut up now).
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2209039#Comment_2209039
But isnt that true the other way around too? If you have a survivor that doesnt make mistakes while looping, what does a trapper do to him, or a clown? He can occupy the killer the whole game, but that doesnt seem to be a problem.
However, how common are Nurses, Spirits and perfect looper-survivors?
(and i dont disagree with you here, there is not much to do vs the really really good nurses and spirits). I just think there are some double standards here.
Just because people aren't constantly going on about every problem with the game doesn't mean they aren't aware of their existence. For example, I'm fairly certain most people on the forums are fully aware of the massive problem that is predropping pallets and slamming gens, the tactic that is essentially identical to survivors being good at looping because they are cutting out any ability for them to make a mistake.
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@CoalTower said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/251733/how-is-hag-good
Hag is good because a good one is always in 7 places at once. Triggering her traps is a guaranteed hit for her.
She's the only killer that doesn't worry about gens.
Good survivors know how to trigger traps without taking hits (you keep your camera centred on the trap and edge towards it, quickly running back when it's triggered so that you don't get hit by her ITH lunge, leaving her to either go through the teleportation cooldown or the lunge cooldown if she wants to hit you, which gives survivors plenty of distance and forces the hag to give up on that trap and/or chase the survivor to try and get a hit before they reach a safe, untrapped loop). However, it does require the survivor to know where they are and do it outside of a chase, which is why it's mostly in the realm of being useful only to very co-ordinated teams.
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Hag is good because her webs are hard to break and even a good team will have to be extremely patient and drag trials out for upwards of half an hour to make absolutely certain they don't make a fatal mistake and get snowballed.
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210051#Comment_2210051
Id be okay with that.. But lets be real, how often does this actually happen? Once in 500 matches maybe? But how often do you get hit by a killer who was 15 feet away on your screen?
Once every two or three. And I think the only time I ever get hit from as much as 2m away is when I'm playing with friends in EU servers.
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@piggygooik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210193#Comment_2210193
was that really the reason they nerfed billy
if so that is so dumb since when did anyone complain about a camping billy
No, the reason they nerfed Billy was because they're insane, but the initial overheat mechanic literally did nothing excep prevent standing there revving your saw for minutes on end so it was a pretty nice mechanic.
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Barry has been practicing its powers of telekinesis.
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Billy's nerf was the Devs very clearly realising they went way too far. His initial overheat mechanic was great because it prevented facecamping and that's pretty much it, so they made a second iteration that was halfway between that and the PTB dumpster fire and suddenly, with no good addons and a self-punishing power and a bunch of QoL nerfs such as camera adjustments and mega janky survivor movement that made backrevs a no-skill coin toss, well... There's a reason they barely even touched Twins, Freddy, and even Huntress (yay, an add-on pass, great, fantastic, not how about her not tossing beachballs that make no sense because you can just reshape the projectile to a disc?).
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Sure, if they give killers the ability to see survivors ping once more. The last thing a killer needs is to be screwed over by a teleporting survivor.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210008#Comment_2210008
"There's no way to avoid giving a good Spirit information. You cannot hide running footsteps, so you have to walk, and the Spirit knows this and therefore knows where you are."
Those sounds are so quiet that very, very few Spirits are actually reading you based on that. It's just generally intuition from most survivors being predictable and survivors think it's because they heard those minute sounds. The Spirit is doing a lot more guessing than people think she is. I doubt I've ran into a Spirit that was able to make reads from those sounds in the last entire year playing ridiculously more than the average player.
"Just because she doesn't get to phase-lunge your arse doesn't meant you get away."
But it does give you enough seconds from her coming out and chasing you at 110% to get to another pallet or loop.
You really are insisting that Spirit players don't use custom audio settings or increased volume pretty damn hard.
And no, you don't have time to get to a loop just be ahse she didn't hit you directly out of her power, because you probably weren't near a loop to begin with. It's the same as Bligh, just because you avoided his Lethal rush doesn't mean you don't take a hit without any real counterplay.
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@Dustin said:
Nurse main here - I hate Spirit and everything about her kit. Low skill floor with extremely high reward, low effort to pull off decent mind games, decent addons but zero dependence on them. I genuinely hate Spirit and would be happy seeing her removed from the game. You know why HEX: Ruin was changed? It's because of how passive you can be to get use out of it. Why is Spirit as a killer ignored in this mindset?
You might ask - Why do I not feel the same about Nurse who is extremely strong as well?
First and foremost Nurse telegraphs her power so you can read and react to her power as Survivor. Nurse is also very buggy and inconsistent and even with perfect muscle memory sometimes a map will cause certain interactions you cannot prevent but also cannot predict. I do love how mechanical Nurse is where I feel like my actual skill affects her power. This is the same with Deathslinger, Huntress, Blight and to an extent Clown. I would however say Nurse's addons shouldn't be buffing her primary power use and would nerf them into the ground but that's just me - As a base power though Nurse is fine. In regards to Spirit she is not.
Personally for Spirit I'd make it so that the longer you stand still the more obvious it is that you're not using your power. Basically just give her some built in Insidious where the longer you stand still the quieter the Terror Radius gets and even make it slower - Now there's an obvious tell on her power. That's one of many potential changes I'd give her.
You can't react to a good Nurse. That's the entire point of her power - survivors are waiting for her to massively screw up. She tells survivors when she's Charing a d when she's blinking, but... What's a survivor to do with that information besides attempt to break LoS, mindgame, and hope it's a terrible Nurse that goes for prediction blinks?
I've never understood why people use that as a reason Nurse is okay - personally, I just think she's at the bottom of the "needs changed" list because people think she's this insanely difficult killer and don't want to get ridiculed while trying to learn her, thereby naturally massively lowering the number of Nurse players by virtue of the shame of being a "baby nurse".
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2207907#Comment_2207907
Things even semi competent survivors will not be giving you.
There's no way to avoid giving a good Spirit information. You cannot hide running footsteps, so you have to walk, and the Spirit knows this and therefore knows where you are. If you're not touching foliage (which is usually out of your control) then the Spirit still knows wher eyiu are because she knows where you aren't.
Just because she doesn't get to phase-lunge your arse doesn't meant you get away.
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@Rivyn said:
High risk, high reward should be a thing, yes. Devour Hope is a good example of a well made Hex.
Or conversely, it's a perfect example of a Hex perk holding back all the rest because it's so OP that making all totems as difficult to find as on Dead Dawg or Lery's would be unfair for as long as this perk exists.
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The only issue Plague has is her robbed hits. Anyone going for the spray'n'pray tactic absolutely sucks at playing her. Either you want to land as much of your Vile Purge as possible or you want to land small, accurate bursts of Corrupt Purge.
Also, she has a range of about 15m (I think?) and her movement speed is added to her projectile travel speed. In case you didn't know.
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Blight has even more bugs now than before, and console players don't quite have the turning of PC.
Not to mention the fact that he's considerably harder than Nurse to learn to achieve a similar level of no-counterplay.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2208061#Comment_2208061
Spirit's phasing sound used to be directional, survivors could hear it even inside her TR and they could hear her breathing when she was phasing.
All of this was changed following Patch 2.3.0 and basically created the killer we now know. Although she used to have collision when using her power, something which was changed following Patch 3.4.0, if I am not mistaken.
It was taken out alongside Prayer Beads and her massive lunge.
Edit: btw, hope that doesn't trigger any repressed Prayer Beads memories.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2209147#Comment_2209147
Yeah, Pallet Freddy is as fun as his current power gets, the only problem is that Dream Pallets are not very strong.
And yeah, it is certainly much better than Legion and Spirit. Or Ghostface.
I dunno, in a wierd way I find Dream Pallets to be a bit more useful that Dream Snares because with Snares everyone keeps holding W and predropping.
It's one of those wierd things where snares are clearly stronger than pallets, but the behaviour around the two makes pallets more useful, at least for me. Even if people don't get tricked by a single dream pallet they at least try to play tiles and I can get in hits like that.
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There's a bunch of scenarios in which DbD suddenly becomes #########-your-pants scary. Like seeing Plague go behind a wall mid-chase only to hear a certain global notification.
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I was talking about how insanely good Blight was since his release and every time I made any comment about it, 3 people would immediately jump me, call him trash and tell me to learn killer.
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I think I'm in this catagory, but I'm not entirely sure that one Spirit session every two or three months counts.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2208061#Comment_2208061
People wanted Spirit nerfed when her PTB released, and they didn't nerf her.
Either way, look at Blight. People thought he was dogshit, after he got buffed when he released people said that he was only "okay." A month later people realized he was actually really good, just took skill to play.
And coincidentally the number of people calling me an absolute idiot dropped slightly.
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@WheresTheGate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2208944#Comment_2208944
I have seen plenty of killers that don't do a lot of slugging, even in red ranks. There are really good killers out there that rarely slug. As for me feeling hypocritical slugging as a killer when I hate it as a survivor I would say 2 things.
First, I don't just hate being slugged as a survivor a little bit. I mean if slugging was much more prevelant I wouldn't play this game at all. I hate it that much. It completely removes every bit of fun from this game on the survivor side for me when it happens. That doesn't mean I think it should be banned/punished or anything else. I just happen to hate it.
Second, I actually understand why slugging is done. It's highly effective. I'm not condemning anyone that does it. At the same time I don't think I'm wrong for saying it feels hypocritical to me to do it to others considering how much I hate it, and you're not wrong for saying it doesn't feel hypocritical to you. It's personal opinion/feeling on both sides.
As for the fact I respect someone that won't play a certain way because of how much they hate it when it's done to them.... that isn't saying they are wrong or right anymore than I am. It's just saying it's a thought process that holds value to me personally.
You don't quite some to understand the stakes in play: a killer that refuses to snowball would be hooking survivors at 1 hook per minute. Which, by the way, is extremely generous. Perhaps the big 3 could cut down on that time, but not by much due to the physical limitations of travel time that even they must abide by.
The survivors, who'se base objective speed without perks or items is 3 minutes, are under absolutely no pressure. Assuming they are doing gens at half efficiency, and the killer gets their tunnel on, at the 6-minute mark the gates will be open, one person will be dead and 3 will escape.
That is not something that skill can avoid.
Edit: actually, no, I said that wrong. That is something skill can avoid, because an enormous part of killer is knowing how to snowball map pressure, of which slugging is an intergral part of.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2208944#Comment_2208944
That last paragraph... YOU CAN'T SAY THAT HERE!
Then you'll like my little addendum even better, I realised I forgot to finish the train of thought on "hypocrisy".
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@WheresTheGate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2206557#Comment_2206557
I have so much respect for this type of ideology. I don't play killer anymore, but when I used to play killer I refused to slug because it felt too hypocritical since I absolutely hate when I'm slugged as a survivor.
Which means that you physically didn't have the time to win against vaguely decent survivors that didn't take 12 minutes to do the generators in a trial with a killer that refuses to snowball map pressure.
It isn't hypocritical to not enjoy going against the things you use or that you are forced to do. In fact, someone's opinion carries much more weight if they have extensive experience on both sides of the argument.
Edit: To clarify, hypocrisy is saying "only scumlords play the strongest killers" then proceeding to never take off DS/UB/BT/DH on a Blendette.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2208476#Comment_2208476
The same way spirit does, basicly. Spirit takes away information you normaly have (like, where the killer is while in a chase), and bbq gives you information the killer normaly doesnt have (like where survivors are).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2208542#Comment_2208542
And this is where i disagree. I dont think it is the core mechanic of the game, it just turned out to be a more effective way to waste the killers time, and thus was turned into the prevalent mechanic by the community. To me, however, it is boring to play vs every killer the same way, thus i like playing against spirit and nurse, for example. I like the possibility that most core mechanics get bypassed by killers one way or another, because that makes not every game the same. Spirit is only so strong because soo many people relay on looping only.
That is an insane definition that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You are basically saying that people should play the game absolutely perkless, because every single perk in the game either adds something that wasn't there or takes it away, whether that be a specific action speed buff, information, or a bonus ability such as exhaustion perks or instadowns.
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Definitely rank 1-2 killer. As much as I hate and complain about it, I'm currently in purple ranks thanks to the depip bug and it's... It's just not my world.
Probably the same for survivor if I'm honest. I'm not the best in chases but I certainly know what I'm doing outside of them and my confusion-based running style has been massively screwing my opponents, because who needs a plan when you can improvise?
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2206454#Comment_2206454
So, do you also not use bbq, doctor, hag, any instadown killer, or swf? Becasue they all bypass the games mechanics, you know?
The problem with spirit is that its one of the few killers that bypass most players favorite mechanic.
How does BBQ bypass game mechanics?
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2208320#Comment_2208320
By that logic it must be very hard to down survivors with Bubba's chainsaw or even harder to hit them with Doc's shock blasts;
Thank you for putting in effort I wasn't prepared to commit to.
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No.
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Most people don't stick around to the end of the game unless they were at the end of the game. The reason you don't see many GG's from sacrificed survivors is that they aren't there to say it. That's why it mostly comes from survivors that escape.
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Corrupt is a pretty mediocre perk that's only really good on killers that have to set up. Generally speaking, survivors just go to another gen or stealth it out. Wow, impactful, I totally got my perk investment back.
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@PerfectlyPink said:
So many "if you play spirit the you ____" posts
Woah buddy chill the hell out, me playing a killer I enjoy shouldn't hurt you so badly. Grow up, you not liking the killer is fine but attacking the person playing them is pathetic
I agree. Unless someone is doing something to be deliberately malicious, who cares? Its not like survivors are held to the same standard, I've been using Lucky Break and bragging about it and no-one cares even though it's easier, more painful for my opponents and much, much stronger than any killer equivalent.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2207610#Comment_2207610
Checking the changes wraith's lunge is completely unchanged so idk what you are talking about.
It feels very much so changed to me. It's an actual chasing tool now, it's so damn cool.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Holy mother of stretched res. And I thought that a round Blight was the worst thing I have seen (there was a Streamer whose Res was so stretched that Blight was as wide as big).
But this is a completely new Level. I will never understand why people want their game to look like #########, just for an advantage. Especially in a game like DBD.
Because people want DbD to be the next Siege and so play like it is.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
Oh no I have no idea what she's doing it must be because I'm bad at the game.
What, you don't use wallhack cheats so you can see her coming when her insanely quick arse sprints at you for a hit that you can't react to even though you have Super Secret Wallhacks?
(Seriously people, don't hack, I'm just being a sarcastic ######### to illuminate the fact that she wouldn't have counterplay even is she didn't have stealth)
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I'm like 90% sure this is an alt account.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I rarely play her. If I play her, I dont run Stridor, because Stridor is a cheap Perk. If I go against 4 Iron Wills, it becomes a little bit challenging, but this is the most challenging it can get when playing Spirit.
Since I also dont run Gen Regression Perks, I dont even know what to run on Spirit most of the time. And I also run either no Add Ons or yellows at max.
But overall, I dont really enjoy playing Spirit, it does not feel rewarding to get Downs with her. I rather 4K with Killers like Pig or Demo and have an actual fun game instead of playing Spirit, knowing that the Survivors cannot really do anything against me, as long as they dont have Iron Will (and this only because I am nice and dont run Stridor, with Stridor, it would be even more of a shitshow).
If you're possibly going to have fun with Spirit without going against pseudo-competitive players... Yeah, that's probably not happening, but the last time I played her (like 2 months ago, gods that's actually pretty recent) I was trying to use a Nemesis/Rancor build. It was kind of fun. Got boring real quick, but it was kind of fun.
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@Blueberry said:
Without Stridor as soon as you run into an even semi competent group of survivors with Iron Will you're getting destroyed. You're essentially turning every single chase of the game into random guessing on your part.
Not true. Footsteps and foliage movement are still always detectable. I just refuse to learn or adjust my audio settings.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2207047#Comment_2207047
Yeah man I agree....getting rid of Killer players is healthy for the game. We all love 30 minute survivor queue times.
If people ragequit because their easy win is taken away, it's better for the game that they aren't playing.
I think most people would take a 30 minute wait time to a 25 minute wait time where at the end of it is a Forever Freddy.
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Especially if they have Dead Hard and panic use it.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2207009#Comment_2207009
When was this? I thought billy and bubba always moved at 4 m/s while sawing?
No, they never have. Both chainsaw brothers move slower than survivors while revving. That's why Instasaw was so big, especially on Bubba (who moved so much slower than survivors before his buff that it's still not funny).
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2207047#Comment_2207047
Well, they did replace them with useless add-ons, tho... But then again, Freddy's new power is already wrong by itself, at least in my opinion.
What are you talking about, it's perfectly logical that Freddy... Umm, puts you to sleep by slashing you? And then has these little pools of dream blood that make you scream and run slow? And also is totally visible in the real world? Also sometimes pallets? And... and teleportation? And glowy outlines? Also you just fall asleep by yourself while your hands are inside a moving generator?
Yes. All of this seem perfectly logical for Freddy Kruger. I see absolutely no inconsistencies or flaws with either his power from a lore perspective or gameplay perspective.
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Go back 6 months and you'll see just as many Spirit threads as you do now. You'll also see a whole lot of DS threads. And DS/UB threads. Funny how they magically disappeared.
And to be honest, the only thing that changed about Freddy was him losing those awful no-effort slowdown add-ons. It's not surprising that getting rid of those got rid of a lot of Freddy players, even though he is just as easy and plays the exact same way. So why so scared for a Spirit nerf? Most people just want some actual interactivity, killers included.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/251399/spirit-haters
Played her for a long time but stopped cold turkey about a year ago. It got to the point where I was going perkless, red ranks and getting 3Ks minimum. Made the game boring.
Yeah, that's how I feel about all the top killers. Blight, Nurse, Spirit and even Hag just got really boring, really quickly. I just reached a point where learning new things required me to slog through dozens of trials where I'd be doing the same thing over and over again.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205222#Comment_2205222
They kinda of have a point.
I've definitely had scenarios where this happens. Someone baits a rescue, I time it correctly but get my grab cancelled and the game swings instead.
It isn't fun.
Faking unhooks to tank a hit and unhook during the cooldown animation has existed since long before I started, and long before dedicated servers anniahlated the entire concept of grabs. The only problem is that sometimes the game will force a grab to initiate despite the killer doing a little lunge to deliberately avoid starting a grab, but that's got nothing to do with the survivor unless they're lag switching. That's just poor game code.
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Or, better yet, have a matchmaking system that actually works without removing a good chunk of the game's skill cap.