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It would certainly make Overcharge stronger, but it doesn't fix Overcharge's central issue of being centered entirely around Skillchecks. Making the skillchecks harder to land kinda just kicks the can down the road, and kicks new players while they're down.
I would suggest this simple buff:
Attacking or grabbing Survivors in the middle of repairing a Generator, or up to 1 second after they have stopped, counts as a break action against that Generator, damaging it.
This isn't just to save time, this synergises with the effects Overcharge already has. There's one use of Overcharge that Survivors can't escape- If Survivors don't have time to finish the Skillcheck before going off the gen, it's going to blow up.
This would turn Overcharge into a "gen lockdown" Perk. Repairing gens in the Killer's face is now a much more daunting task. If the Killer is running Pop Goes The Weasel and it's active, it's impossible.
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I dunno, man. Ergonomics is some pretty dangerous #########, and I know better than to mess with forces I don't understand.
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@SilentPill said:
He already can with his two wallhacks addons. It’s balanced by losing his one shot, and is still stupid strong.
Uh, no? The Mirrors let him see Survivors auras by Stalking, but he can't drain Evil from them through walls. Evil drain is the feature being discussed here.
And, Scratched Mirror Myers is still average to below average even on maps he excels on, and is arguably the worst Killer + Addon combination in the game on maps he doesn't. Vanity Mirror Myers is even worse. Yes, the playstyles can catch Survivors off guard, but Scratched Mirror uses can be looped effectively forever and have no map pressure.
Anyway, with that said, even if Myers stalking through walls was balanced, it doesn't matter IMO, it'd be balancing him by removing counterplay. That just isn't a good idea.
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@DoomedMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1961074#Comment_1961074
It's not always yourself to blame if you died because of Reversed Bear Trap.
I don't know how much time I had to check every box, and the last box is exactly where the pig and another survivor are looping, you just CAN'T do anything. :/
If Pig happens to be looping a Survivor around your last Box, that's terrible luck, but Pig's Terror Radius will put your RBT timer on hold, so you can watch from the sidelines without your timer running down until they move on or the chase ends otherwise.
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@Dragonshensi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1961058#Comment_1961058
He Didnt seemed fazed at all by the window. Just was on me no matter what, and just switches to his m1 and hits me. Just seems like once LF spots you and he follows that’s it. You’re going down
If a Leatherface M1s you... That's good. Sure, escaping damage entirely is ideal, but if you've forced him to resort to the M1, he got zero value out of his Killer Power. You've rendered him an M1 Killer (and an M1 Killer would've hit you through that window in the same situation!) so you have essentially gained the upper hand in the chase and forced him to spend ALL the time his Killer Power is supposed to be saving him. Even if he hits you with his chainsaw afterwards, all he gets out of it are extra Bloodpoints, because you're already Injured.
It should also be borne in mind that all Killers, assuming they don't lose sight of you or give up, are intended to catch you after enough chasing.
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Pig is plain and simply not strong. Most players consider her an extremely average Killer.
If you die to Reverse Bear Traps, you only have yourself to blame. UNLESS you're on one of the largest maps in the game, your Survivor team finishes a gen after you've been RBT-d, Pig is running Tampered Timer, your RNG is terrible, and the Pig deliberately tries to stop you using her Terror Radius' timer pause to your advantage by doing stuff like stealthing. ALL of those conditions need to be true for death to an RBT to genuinely be inevitable. (Or, if Pig is being really toxic and following you 24/7 while crouched, which is essentially just facecamping, not really a regular game scenario)
Her only ability besides the RBTs is stealthing, which really isn't very strong. The audio tells she gives you when either about to lunge or standing up are fairly simple to hear and give you enough time to run.
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Whether or not a Leatherface player collides with scenery is down to how the Killer plays. It's a little like Nurse: If the Killer plays perfectly, trying to bait them into a Tantrum or missing a blink strike simply isn't going to work.
The one thing that all LF players have to respect though is the window. If there's a window nearby you can reach, you can screw up their chainsaw charge. Just try to observe them when you vault it, because if they keep going with the charge to try and catch you on the other side, you need to vault back through and treat it like a pallet you're mindgaming. That's the specific chase adjustment you need to make when going up against him.
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Any Means Necessary isn't supposed to be used in a chase, and I agree with the developer's intentions on making it that way. I mean, if it was ~2 seconds, you might well be able to use it after stunning a Killer to raise the pallet again before they recover.
I don't think BHVR would use this buff because it'd probably be an idea they'd be interested in making a new Perk altogether for, but I think Any Means Necessary could also allow players to use its effect to charge through a breakable wall immediately, destroying it with a loud noise notification, stunning any Killer on the other side, and triggering the Perk's cooldown.
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I really don't agree with this thread's analysis. There are tons of Survivor perks that give rewards with no conditions besides perhaps a cooldown and the Perk Slot, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
Dead Hard is usually railed against because it's the most popular Exhaustion Perk, and Exhaustion Perks are strong in general. However, one has to bear in mind that if Dead Hard were to be nerfed too much, as I feel you've suggested, people would just start using Sprint Burst instead, which isn't that far off in power.
IMO the simplest nerf would be reducing its overall speed. If it was given a unique animation to keep its use readable for Killers, but it didn't speed up the Survivor as much, for example.
People's main complaint about Dead Hard is that it's an on-demand way to make some extra distance, and in many loops that difference allows Survivors to get an extra loop. Those kind of changes would be targeted at this use of Dead Hard, which is supposed to be precisely what the Perk isn't good for.
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From my understanding, they were not deliberately removed, it was just a consequence of how they coded the new UI.
With that said, I think custom icons were neat and I would like to see them become a possibility once again in the new HUD.
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As a Killer main, I don't really feel the same way. If I've killed 3 Survivors, I've already "won" that trial. The last guy having a chance to get out is fine and it being RNG-based isn't much skin off my teeth.
This is doubly true with the hatch rework. As the Killer, you have (effectively) won if you find either the Hatch or the Survivor, the Survivor needs to find the Hatch before stumbling into and getting downed by you. This automatically puts the Killer at the advantage in the hatch endgame, as it should be.
While I'm not against the idea that other concepts for endgame could be more interesting, I've yet to actually hear one. To critique the three options presented so far in this thread:
@IWasLeft2Die said:
I recently got back into DBD and have played a number of killer games where I kill 3 survivors and stop them from doing any gens but the last survivor just uses the hatch. I feel like this indirectly penalizes killers for killing survivors since he loses his earned advantage. Any chance they would bring back 2 generators completed requirement before hatch spawns opened?
This would mean if the Survivor team gets truly stomped and can't complete two gens, the game will essentially slow to a crawl once the last Survivor is left standing. Doubly so if they didn't even complete one gen.
@TheEdster said:
Personally I think the Hatch should be earned by the last Survivor and not given. I think after the 3rd Survivor has been sacrificed the last Survivor gains a huge bonus to their repair speed. The Hatch does not open untill the last Survivor has finished a Generator.
Once again this would most likely slow the game to a crawl especially if the Killer has set up a successful 3-gen. Besides, I don't think there is a level of repair speed buff that would make gen patrolling against a solo Survivor a fun and fair situation for both sides, it would either result in even mediocre Killers being able to totally lock down the game, or a Survivor repairing and finishing gens before a Killer can physically reach the gen. Generators as a mechanic really, really require multiple Survivors to be in play for them to work.
@MrPenguin said:
I think hatch can be replaced with EGC at this point so the last survivor has to earn their escape, not just luck into it. Of course door spawns would have to be fixed as well so they can't be on the same wall, ideally they would be fixed location across the map from each other like on Lery's and such.
1 survivor left, EGC starts and hatch spawns in closed and a key can open it. Keys still have a use, but only 1 survivor can use it, and hatch challenges/achievements are still doable. Gits rid of the luck based hatch race.
Just my personal idea.
Even if we assume Exit Gates are rebalanced so they aren't adjacent (and while we're at it, let's also assume the spots where you can watch both gates at once are also no longer a thing), Killers will essentially never lose against a solo Survivor with the Exit Gates being powered unless they ######### up monumentally with the Survivor able to successfully hide somewhere after putting some power on an Exit Gate.
I mean, think about the current hatch endgame. If you close the Hatch, how many times does the last Survivor actually manage to open an Exit Gate? Excluding the times I've allowed a Survivor to do so, I don't think it's happened to me once.
And on top of that, many Killers like Hillbilly, Demogorgon, Huntress, Trapper, ecetera have the odds tilted even further in this situation towards their side.
TL:DR: Yes, the hatch endgame is essentially a roll of the dice as to if the last Survivor makes it or if the Killer gets a completed 4K. In my opinion, that isn't a problem.
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Sure thing, there's definitely room.
While we're at it, I don't see why the UI doesn't have more perk rows. A fourth or even fifth row would make the whole thing a lot more compact.
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Yep, totem spawns are godawful.
In other news, the Earth is currently rotating around the Sun, water is moist (not wet), and Thatcher is still dead.
(just to clarify: I really cannot agree with you enough that totem spawns are broken, though. I appreciate map changes are a delicate process, but I genuinely can't understand what the major issue would be with a totem rebalancing patch. just implement a monitoring system to track the average % chance for each totem position to be cleansed + the average time it takes for them to be cleansed, then start a discussion as to what totem spawns can be used as a benchmark for "balanced" based on those two stats)
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@ReverseVelocity said:
There are really people out here who want to nerf Myers. If 4 survivors are close enough and bad enough at looping to get downed in one Tier 3, then that's their fault.
^ This, absolutely.
Myers is NOT an overpowered or even a particularly strong Killer. It really doesn't take a spec-ops trained SWF team to figure out that if Myers has been on T2 and is on the verge of achieving T3, that the team should split up. Same when going up against a Legion or Leatherface, these Killers excel against grouped Survivors and struggle against loner Survivors.
Suggesting this nerf also apply to Ghostface is even more wrongheaded, considering that he doesn't snowball off his exposure at all because it's single-target, AND his Stalk ability can be temporarily disabled entirely by Survivors revealing him.
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For real, if an RE chapter was happening (which I do not think is quite as likely as some people are suggesting) Jack Baker wouldn't just be unlikely, I honestly wouldn't want him.
That's not because Jack Baker isn't fun, but I think the fact he's a decent person being manipulated by the mold doesn't really fit with him as a Killer. Plus, his fun factor comes from his voicelines he wouldn't have as a Killer, and I'd struggle to think of a decent Killer Power. Would much prefer Nemesis.
This isn't because I think RE7 is a bad game. I just don't think the circumstances surrounding a RE Chapter would make 7-related content easy to feature.
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Racism and sexual exploitation are very serious allegations. Who exactly are you talking about, and what exactly are the accusations?
While I appreciate "not wanting to name names", if people don't know what you're talking about, there's no point in making a public statement about it.
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To add something, Left Behind actually does its job quite well. It WILL increase the chances of you making a hatch escape if you're the last Survivor standing a fair bit. My list would be:
- No Mither, for fairly obvious reasons.
- This Is Not Happening does essentially nothing once you learn the very basics of skillchecks, and it feels like doing essentially nothing is so powerful it needs to be locked behind you being injured.
- Monstrous Shrine, even in a Basement-oriented facecamping build, doesn't really give much value at all.
- Unrelenting is almost worthless. Even mediocre Killers like myself will usually only miss attacks once or twice in an average match (with some exceptions like Nurse players, but I'm almost certain their missed blink attacks aren't even affected) and even then, almost all the time when you miss an attack, Unrelenting would not make a difference on if you could save enough time to get a followup attack.
- Hex: Huntress Lullaby has very similar activation requirements to Devour Hope, but instead of being able to freely mori and instadown Survivors, you... Make skillchecks harder. Even on impossible skillcheck builds, which are already very gimmicky and not gonna work against sufficiently skilled Survivors, this is gonna get cleansed 9/10 times before you can properly build its stacks up.
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Yep. Even if you boil things down to a literal M1 Killer against no Perks, no Items Survivors, the process of looping, trying to keep track of/predict the state of the other players in the game, and using those opportunities to achieve your goals absolutely does take skill. That, while it might not actually retain a playerbase due to not being very interesting, would still have a skillcap worth several hundred hours.
with that said freddy very consistently gets results that are too good in proportion to the effort you need to learn him and spirit while having a much higher skillfloor has a similar problem, thank you for coming to my ted talk. -
I'm interested to hear what they tried. My random gut instinct is some change related to rollback netcode going wrong.
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Necromancers. Be wary of them.
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If Behaviour got up and said "Take that down", they would be within their legal rights to have it done. They presumably have a trademark on "Dead by Daylight" as a videogame, so another videogame saying it's "Dead by Daylight" even if it's a Roblox server and even if it's not making money off the license isn't within its rights. (note: all the "as a videogame" stuff is pretty important. BHVR would struggle more to use the same argument against a transformative work of fanart or etc)
With that said, content creators utilising copyrighted material happens all the time, and as long as they don't turn a profit off the license and don't try to pretend the IP is theirs, usually, people don't mind. It'd only be properly "illegal" if Behaviour objected to its existence.
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@simbanono said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947435#Comment_1947435
This is like saying: GUI takes a long time to rework especially in Unreal Engine 4.
No, it isn't.
GUIs don't take a particularly long time to rework, especially not in UE4. Creating new art assets is a tad more intensive (usually not bad though, especially for abstract UIs), but if you're just moving things around, you can do that effectively as quickly as you want. Of course, creating a good GUI is going to take a few weeks, but relatively speaking it's an instance where the design is the hardest part of the process, not execution.
But animation work is always pretty intensive. It will usually take animators hours to produce second's worth of animation, and a lot more time to get the animation feeling good. It also produces a LOT of technical issues when you need to dive into blendspaces- Instead of playing canned animations, you need to ensure the Survivor's head follows their camera direction while being able to run, walk, crouch, etc, you need transitions between those states and make sure different speeds look vaguely natural.
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This is... Kind of true?
It's easy to forget, but The Bloodweb is a canon thing. So, The Entity isn't deliberately empowering Survivors, by default they're all the same, but the Survivors have developed unique abilities from the Bloodweb in the form of their Perks, which is getting empowered by The Entity in an indirect way.
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I can get behind this. Seeing broken Totems is a neat little bonus to give the Perk, and lots of Survivor perks could use a similar treatment.
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I would love to know about Dracula's backstory, he seems like an extremely unique and original character.
To be slightly serious: The Killer Power is absolutely out of control, being able to chain 3 dashes together that damage Survivors along the way plus allowing ignoring of vault locations without any fatigue afterwards is bonkers. In loops, this would be like if Legion grabbed Leatherface's chainsaw. Sure, he can't go through walls, but when you have 3 seperate dashes with no fatigue, presumably with the ability to basic attack lunge out of it, you don't need to, and can easily end any chase very quickly.
Bloodlust is essentially a straight upgrade to A Nurse's Calling and makes perks like Iron Will completely worthless, plus would be completely out of control on a character like Legion. Supernatural Hearing is just Whispers. Wrath of the Undead is just a direct upgrade to Spirit Fury which is already quite a good Perk.
I really enjoy fanmade chapter/Killer concepts, don't get me wrong, but please. Just... Please. Even if a power's overpowered, at least check existing Perks to see if your idea already exists, and come on, Dracula?
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Not a wholly disagreeable list, though I think ranking Killers with the attempt of saying "no addons, no perks" is a bit of an iffy premise I don't really agree with using for a tier list. Saying "I won't consider outlier addons like Tombstone Piece or Iridescent Head" is totally fine, but you get into some weird situations if you use outlawing Perks/Addons entirely as your premise, and you'll never be able to completely remove your bias of associating Killers with what they're capable of doing with their Addons.
For example, Demo and Trapper effectively have 1 addon slot with basekit features from their Common addons. Many Killers have unique Perk interactions they use to boost their effective power level, such as Deathslinger with M&A or Demo with STBFL. Doctor's URs aren't really outliers like Iridescent Head, but they can boost his power a fair bit.
In any case, it's generally just semantics because listmakers will inevitably take Perks/Addons into account even if they're not realizing it, and the meat and potatoes of what makes a Killer powerful is their Power irrespective of Perks/Addons anyway.
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The community's collective (and correct- I remember that patch too) response to this can be summed up as:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvmjOLjoMg8 -
I think the real issue with this HUD is that it's just the old HUD with a new coat of paint- Not because the old HUD's bad, but because part of the reason a new HUD is being made is to allow for more HUD elements to be added with a more open ended design.
With that said, I think there definitely IS room to compact the new-new HUD mockup on the DbD Twitter even more, and that would definitely be a further improvement.
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Wriggling is not supposed to be reliable in the slightest. 99% of the time, you're just wasting the Killer's time (which is very much worth doing) but it's supposed to make times you DO manage to escape more exciting.
The only thing I can concede is that most wriggling-based Survivor Perks are terrible and could use buffs, but a lot of care has to be taken with them to ensure they aren't abusable.
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inb4 some edgelord picks urban evasion, sole survivor, and decisive strikeOpen-Handed: It might just be a matter of perspective, but I'm a lucky bastard and usually open to what the world ends up giving me.
Autodidact: Just like this Perk, I can be very proficient at things, but I'm usually terrible.
Calm Spirit: I consider myself laid-back and pretty quiet.
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It's all about how they're used in maps. Unfortunately, at present they aren't being used particularly well.
This is a concept that would also require map changes, but if you really want to flip the script, one could just allow Killers to walk through the walls, breaking them in the process. Suddenly, they have essentially become reverse pallets, the one environmental feature in loops that's actually on the Killer's side.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947024#Comment_1947024
Except that just redoing some maps apparently altered hits being in synch. The code is very messy and convoluted. A token system touches a lot of things, and I hate to say it, is much more complex than you think.
Look, I appreciate spaghetti code is spaghetti, but, and I don't mean to Dunning-Kreuger myself here, but if you gave me Dead By Daylight opened up in UE4's editor, I could absolutely implement it myself. It's JUST a ++ to a variable that already exists, that triggers when something happens (and there's already loads of perks that trigger on unhook, on heal, on gen repair etc that could have their triggers reliably copied).
And the mid-chapter patch changed a LOT more than "just redoing some maps", it completely replaced things like Survivor animations, had loads of miscellaneous bugfixes and tweaks, etc.
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@Moundshroud said:
I would agree with the previous posters except for a couple of things:
- No Perk is supposed to be perfect. Being able to stand still when you suspect the Killer might be able to get a read on you, such as when hooking someone for Barbecue & Chili or when a Generator is about to come up for Bitter Murmur, or if you suspect you are facing a Scratch Mirror Myers, can be very useful. Like all Perks it is situational and would (my way) require some proper thought and play.
- Insidious is not useless for Killers, nor would this version of Distortion be for Survivors. It would get use. Not being able to move for a bit is a small price to pay. Token Distortion is gone within the first minute most of the time, and eve if we did have ways to get back Tokens the control over it would not be in the Survivor's hands. It remains a get lucky Perk.
- If you truly want an upgrade to a Perk by the DEV you have to look at time and effort. A fancy Token system is code heavy and has lots of chances for unintended consequences. This solution is something that can be done simply and has no unintended code consequences.
I originally argued for Tokens and all that jazz, but in the end I had to be pragmatic. Do you want something you can use and get some value from, or not? Because if you want some fancy Token system, this will not get revisited for years, if ever. :)
- I agree no Perk should be perfect, but I don't think any Distortion rework is going for a Perk that's going to be part of the meta. And yes, I understand this version of Distortion would have its uses, but it'd be useless against Nurse's, I'm All Ears, Undying, any aura reveal that will be interacting with either you moving around, or you taking an action, is no longer countered by Distortion, narrowing the uses of an already niche Perk. On top of this, it removes one of the neat purposes of current Distortion, the fact that you can use it to narrow down what aura reveal Perks (if any) the Killer is using. Your suggested version would allow players to guess Bitter Murmur, BBQ etc are in play and try to avoid them... If they aren't already using lockers for that, if at all? (also blah blah blah lockers inflict blindness for a reason)
- I'll concede that Insidious isn't useless for Killers but, excluding facecamping, I'd rank it something like a 2/10 Perk. Standing still and waiting for a Survivor to come your way will fail half the time, and for the other half you probably could've accomplished the same thing by just chasing like normal.
- Developer effort should be taken into account when redesigning Perks, but I don't think anyone's suggestions here are developmentally unreasonable. A Tokens system is not "fancy", it's just a variable that you increment and decrement under specific circumstances. I would actually argue that your rework would be more potentially bug/effort prone than the idea of Tokens incrementing, as determining "player is not moving or taking any actions" has more potential for oversight, but I don't think it's so complex that it really counts against the idea either.
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Undetectable isn't actually applicable to Survivors. It's just "removes aura reading" on their ends.
With that said, this wouldn't work as a Distortion overhaul, it would largely fail for the same reasons Insidious doesn't work: If you're standing still, you're useless.
As loads of people have said, the ability to regain tokens is the most sensible solution. Getting a token back for every gen that's fully repaired, or gaining all your tokens back whenever you're unhooked, or when you unhook other Survivors, really anything.
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Absolutely yes. It's not like when the game initially launched, Trapper, Wraith, Billy and the first four Survivors were The Entity's only victims. Canonically, Killers like Clown, Doctor, Huntress, etc were probably already around, as were a lot of the Survivors, but the "main group" of Survivors the game follows just hadn't bumped into them yet.
It's also worth noting as explored in the Archives, the Entity's Realm constitutes a lot more than just the Trial Grounds.
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Yes, it should be extended. Lengthening event time in response to a really bad patch is generally a show of good faith and is mutually good for both the devs and the players.
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No, Keys aren't comparable to Devour Hope.
- Survivor item slots aren't really comparable to Perks anyway. They're generally considered less valuable, as even at red ranks Survivors can walk into trials with empty hands and still do fine. Alternatively, Survivors can be handed a Key at total random via a Chest, without investment prior to the match starting.
- A Key with Blood Amber equipped will always give value even if you never find the Hatch. A cleansed Devour will no longer give any value for the rest of the match, and if it got cleansed before you reached 3 tokens that value is effectively 0.
- Devour Hope requires Killers to get at least five hooks across the duration of the match and requires them to avoid defending them whenever Survivors go for a rescue, which I think we can all agree is a bigger burden than the Survivor's conditions of needing (5 - # of dead survivors) Generators repaired.
- Devour Hope gives adequate warning to the Survivor team that it's coming, as the 3-hook bonus might as well shoot a spotlight into the sky with DO BONES emblazoned on the clouds above. Killers only have the item in Survivor lobbies as a warning that the Key might be used, and even then their only real recourse is just to be insanely paranoid and play as sweaty as possible, or play kinda nastily and tunnel the hell out of whoever has the Key.
- It doesn't matter how much you memorise Totem locations as a Killer main, that won't really change Devour's chances of being discovered and cleansed. This is NOT the case for Keys, which will become much better if you know where the Hatch can spawn. This multiplies further with SWF comms, which we should acknowledge and account for.
- Even when Devour goes off, it's only considered a "win condition" in a proverbial sense. The Killer still needs to find each and every individual Survivor before Devour is cleansed and down them as normal. Using a Key allows Survivors to escape immediately upon finding the open hatch.
- Come on, don't cite statistics just because they're convenient. Nobody's argument against Keys has been "they're a massively dominant strategy that always lets Survivors win", just like that was nobody's argument against Object, or Dying Light, or etc. Just because the "WIN" button on the arcade machine sometimes isn't there doesn't make its existence good game design.
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Lucky Break is an interesting Perk for sure but it's not really worth the slot.
I can agree with giving it a regeneration ability as a good buff for it, and repairing gens makes plenty of sense. It'd be a neat buff, but it'd still be a very mediocre Perk in my eyes, as even for juking setups, which are a niche Survivor build in and of themselves, it doesn't quite justify a Perk slot in my eyes. Survivor Perk slots are really competitive and JUST removing blood pools doesn't quite do it IMO.
To suggest another buff, that I think could make it into a seriously competitive Survivor perk, I'd suggest that it should come with the following bonus effect: When you are injured, you leave no Scratch Marks for the duration of the injury's speed boost.
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I don't think inflicting Broken really lives up to the standard of what players expect an Ultra Rare to be.
IMO the instadown effect activating after a specific amount of hatchet travel distance is the most sensible rework suggestion for Iri Head, which a bajillion people have suggested already.
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I'm not the Ghostface in question or even a console player, but I'm among the Killers who do this, and I think it's a decent policy. Though, I personally would've hung out with the Survivors wihle they finish the gens, to do things like let them get pallet stuns on me, hooking them, etc to let everyone enjoy some Bloodpoints as compensation for a wasted match.
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@Skaels said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1943494#Comment_1943494
One idea could be to distribute the perks into tiers. Take the perks which are most powerful/meta builds, make them legendary so you can only use one at a time. Kind of like how league is revamping their item system.
The two issues with such an idea:
- Permanently limit perk combinations by developer intent instead of allowing for full player creativity, running a build without Legendary Perks would presumably put you at a significant disadvantage
- Kicks the can down the road for Perk balancing to restart the meta instead of genuinely fixing it. Now, it's just a contest as to what's the best Legendary Perk now.
And that's putting aside the fact it'd need a sweeping Perk overhaul that'd quite likely bugger up the balance. It's honestly especially unsuited to Dead by Daylight thanks to the Exhaustion system already being a thing, too.
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I definitely think that especially after his rework, Doctor serves a good purpose for the game and I agree with this thread. He's a wall for new Survivors, but he rewards Survivors who figure out how to counter and deal with him WHILE still managing to have enough depth on the Killer's end to remain viable.
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Ideally, I would want an approach similar to Silent Hill, which means deliberate care to get representation from multiple games, instead of just packing Resident Evil 2 representation in for everything.
IMO the best overall fit is:
The original Resident Evil mansion for the map (RE representation)
Claire Redfield as Survivor (RE2 representation)
Nemesis as the Killer (RE3 representation)
Mr X is a very strong candidate, but he is extremely specific to the RE2 Remake. (he was in the original, but his role was completely different) He was great in that, but Nemesis has a greater and more iconic legacy, even if he was underwhelming in the RE3 Remake (like the game in general). My only reservation is his more batshit elements like the rocket launcher, but that doesn't need to be represented in his gameplay. It's also worth noting that Mr X has far less gameplay mechanic potential than Nemesis IMO.
For a lot of the other stuff, Resident Evil's action elements would need to be kept in check and monitored. IMO using the original Resi's mansion and using Claire helps keep that spooky feeling, as opposed to bringing in the boulder-punching memelord that is Chris for example. (there's also the slight issue that Chris MIGHT be a villain in 8, based on the trailers)
My only true reservations is that this unfortunately does not directly reference some other great aspects of the Resident Evil franchise, like 4 or 7, but those can be referenced through other means. (eg. Nemesis' addons being a cornucopia of references to the series' various bioweapons from multiple games)
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IMO, the core thing at issue is that, even with low-tier Killers, there IS potential to win games, even against high-level Survivors. I mean, most people would probably agree Wraith is among the weakest Killers in the game, but there are still a reasonable amount of redrank Wraiths who swear by his strengths.
However, and Dead by Daylight definitely exasparates this, if someone feels like Survivors are genrushing the ######### out of them and they're coming up against a serious wall (and this isn't just bad killers, BTW. basically everyone, even the best players in the game, get this feeling) it's best not to come across as saying "you just don't know how to play".
Also given that you mentioned Street Fighter, this is a nice thing for perspective when it comes to balance- SFV Zangief can range from being an S-tier character or a C-tier character depending on who you ask, at least last I checked. Some professional players just think he's average, others will say matching with a really good Zangief is absolutely terrifying. The difference is especially notable between Japan regions and other regions. When elements of psychological prediction are involved, power can feel really subjective.
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Part of me genuinely likes the idea of a two-player Killer, BUT the Twins aren't it, chief. They weren't designed around the concept and wouldn't work with the concept as a result.
There's also the balance issue of such a Killer probably turning out like Nurse/Spirit- Potentially too oppressive in the right two pairs of hands, to compensate for them being inherently much tougher to play as.
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Creating a hard cooldown for Perks isn't a good idea at all. That kind of hard punishment and lockout of preferred playstyles isn't healthy for the game or fun.
If you want to encourage players to use other Perks, and you're not taking balance changes into account, (which will obviously help A LOT especially for Survivor perks) I would recommend features like:
- Random "Bloodpoint Boons" that attach themselves to Perks every game. Each buff increases postgame BPs by something like 25%, and randomly attach themselves to Perks you own each game, with more boons being assigned depending on how many Perks you own. (potentially, having another boon avaliable for leaving an empty perk slot that comes in every now and then might also help)
- Prestige features for using Perks. For example, having stat tracking features for Perks that track not only specific things that Perk did for you (eg. "Generators Popped", "Killers Stunned", etc) but also how many times you have escaped, and how many Survivors you have killed, with that Perk equipped total between all Survivors/Killers. These could reward points associated with that specific Perk, with BP/Shard bonuses for reaching certain milestones, and cosmetic features like being able to change the Perk's background colour (eg. being able to equip it with a Legendary background) to give experienced players something to grind towards, especially if they're willing to try unorthodox Perk builds and try to Legendary out every single Perk.
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If nothing else it increases his map pressure by allowing them to get around faster. I have HEARD extremely proficient Clowns can use it to screw over looping Survivors even more and end loops faster, but it definitely takes more skill to use than the regular bottles.
IMHO Clown could use a reason to throw bottles at long ranges too as it's kind of wasted potential to have a projectile attack with such inherent limits in skillcap, though.
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I don't agree with the suggested rework for Pop. It's not actually a flat nerf as it removes the timer associated with Pop, but I think that's a problem. Pop's timer helps give it a downside by occasionally forcing you to choose between using it, and committing to a chase. It's an important downside when compared to other generator delay perks that distinguishes Pop from others.
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Don't really agree. First, Object of Obsession is hopefully getting changed and this suggestion doesn't really seem to account for that, there's a suggested change the developers floated that'll put it in a much better position. (if the Killer can see your aura, you can see the Killer's. if you're the obsession, you automatically reveal your own aura to the killer periodically) The reason for this is because it's extremely abusable in SWF groups on comms. If you made it also bypass Undetectable it'd be even more rampant in how abusable it is.
Next, with this change in mind, it really isn't useless against stealth Killers. Killers that use Undetectable as part of their kits don't really use it mid-chase, so stuff like I'm All Ears still gets countered pretty hard.
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Frankly I think Killer chase music should make it difficult for you to concentrate. Especially for a Killer like Clown that's constantly trying to screw with you and mess you up in chase.