An apology. But also a rebuttal.
I’d like to apologise for what I accidentally implied in my “Clown needs brains” posts.
i wasn’t intending to insinuate that not getting Clown means that a player is dumb. What I more clearly, and precisely should have said was that Clown requires a particular way of thinking, and also very fast thinking.
Again, I’m also not insinuating that players that can’t adapt to Clowns particular kit is either dumb, or slow. He’s just a killer that isn’t going to suit, or mesh well with some players particular strengths and skill sets.
And that’s ok. The roster isn’t designed to be a “one size fits all” no matter the killer, or the player. I am TERRIBLE at shooters (so in these games I ALWAYS use a shotgun), so I will always suck, suck, SUCK at Huntress & Deathslinger. But I would never let that give me grounds to claim either of those as weak. I am just a weak player with those particular killers. They’re not a good fit for me.
My intent and focus was that Clown isn’t, and never was weak. His seemingly simple design has just always been very deceptive. His difficultly of (effective) use has always been moderately high. With the addition of the Antidote, this has significantly increased his depth, skill cap, and breadth of options and strategies despite how plain and simple it looks at a surface level.
Now to address an entirely different point. If you are somebody that likes to argue in favour of competitive viability or tournament viability, then you only make yourself seem very silly when you claim things like frames, a few seconds (or microseconds), or small amounts of distance either don’t matter or aren’t worth it.
Try telling career speed runners that it’s not worth gaining a 0.5 second advantage.
Try telling the top 10 career esport champions in Street Fighter that an advantage of 1, 2, or 3 frames doesn’t matter.
If you’re to argue in favour of competitive viability or tournament viability, or heck let’s just look smaller and argue in favour of viability against rank 1 SWF, if you are in it to win it, it’s often the tiny numbers that count the most.
Otherwise, saying they don’t matter or aren’t worth it just makes you look silly.
Comments
Honestly anyone even at the lowest tier of competitive Street Fighter has to respect the frame data. That's like the first thing anyone who tries to git gud learns.
I get your analogy though. As someone who is garbage at Street Fighter but tries anyways I felt the need to say that.
I'm just going to point out that for speed runners and esport Champions (I dunno much about the street fighter eSports stuff), what's more important is consistency than saving half a second or more. There are many tricks and strategies that aren't used in even the top runs because they can end runs or don't have good backups. Sometimes the risk vs reward isn't worth it. They don't use every single possible strategy for that reason.
True, but the things I pointed out are still strongly considered, and aren’t easily disregarded, and are relevant for my analogy.
It would be better if you could recomend someone who plays Clown on the level you claim he has.
I've never really seen any top tier clown gameplay as there are almost no clown mains that I know of who also record their games.
But that's the general disagreement for your point built into your analogy. Even the top don't use tactics and strategies if they aren't consistent enough vs the reward given. A lot of times ppl don't bother to do them cuz the competition isn't fierce enough to require them yet. Eventually, as ppl get better and things get optimized more and more strategies/ tactics get used, although many just never get touched. In this case, I think you'd agree that dbd doesn't require them yet, especially at clown's current power level. It would be like giving the worst character in Smash the ability to save a frame. It's objectively better but it's pretty meh.
Of course there are also the insane people who do every risky strategy and grind thorough to eventually do them consistently enough (let's say that's you) and at the end of it they've killed the whole competition/ speedrun category. The top best gets consolidated and ppl lose interest.
I feel like I'm stuck in a time loop with all these Clown posts.
Haters gonna hate. I had not the feeling that you are implying that everyone who cant play clown is dumb.
But could you show gameplay? It would really help.
2nd thing...maybe 3rd.
first is A combo. a single combo that they will always try to repeat (I know it, because I do it 😂)
the other might be a full 2nd combo with ultimates or supers. or just a secondary end to the first combo.
and then yeah. frame data. 😁
IMO, the core thing at issue is that, even with low-tier Killers, there IS potential to win games, even against high-level Survivors. I mean, most people would probably agree Wraith is among the weakest Killers in the game, but there are still a reasonable amount of redrank Wraiths who swear by his strengths.
However, and Dead by Daylight definitely exasparates this, if someone feels like Survivors are genrushing the ######### out of them and they're coming up against a serious wall (and this isn't just bad killers, BTW. basically everyone, even the best players in the game, get this feeling) it's best not to come across as saying "you just don't know how to play".
Also given that you mentioned Street Fighter, this is a nice thing for perspective when it comes to balance- SFV Zangief can range from being an S-tier character or a C-tier character depending on who you ask, at least last I checked. Some professional players just think he's average, others will say matching with a really good Zangief is absolutely terrifying. The difference is especially notable between Japan regions and other regions. When elements of psychological prediction are involved, power can feel really subjective.
Yep,that's probably what annoyed most of the people in his other thread.
TheClownIsKing says that Clown is a good killer,many people think he's a bad killer.
So people want to see some video footage,but he refuses to do so and people get frustrated with that
For me it was "I can't get this combo consistently what is going on?"
"Oh it's a 2 frame combo... how is this a BNB?!"
Then I finally can do it like 10 times in a row, go online. Can't do it to save my life. Screw it I'm a living pinwheel.
This.
I like clown. He's my third most played killer. I do ok with him sometimes but more often than not it's a huge struggle. I dont claim to be an expert on him so when I see someone who claims to be onr with him, I would very much like to see this person make him work.
I remembe once I was at an event, and there was gonna have a free entry MK...X... I think... maybe 11... tournament.
and I went... "Yeah. sounds fun"
there was like, 10 people total...around that.
I had played mk9 a bunch, but never in a "let's actually learn this game" way. and this was a sequel.
so I picked my phone and googled "combo scorpion mkx" and tried to memorize the first thing that appeared. I never managed to use it 😂
Yep,there's pretty much no advanced clown streamer or other content out there so people really want to see some
Saying that you weren't intending to insinuate that not getting Clown means that a player is dumb, but then labeling those who brought an argument against yours as silly, is not a great way to issue an apology. Actually, it sounds like a low-key double-down.
With that being said, if you want to prove contrary opinions wrong, then I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and bring something concrete to the conversation, such as actual footage.
Sorry for making fun of you, I never meant to be toxic. I agreed with your point, I just thought the way you phrased it was funny.
I just thought the idea of "to be good, you need to be good, and in order to do that you have to be good" was absolutely hilarious.
That’s another mistake on my part, and something I need to agree with you on. I also didn’t mean to imply that it’s possible (with any killer) to play flawlessly all the time. That’s an unhealthy, unrealistic expectation in this game.
It got that serious? Really wow
"i wasn’t intending to insinuate that not getting Clown means that a player is dumb. What I more clearly, and precisely should have said was that Clown requires a particular way of thinking, and also very fast thinking."Dude... that's literally the case of EVERY killers in the game, and even by that standard, the clown skill cap is not particularly high.
Clown is still below average because everything he does is outclassed by another Killer.
Ranged throw Killer? Just pick Huntress.
Anti-Loop Slowdown Killer? Freddy is miles ahead.
Speed up Killer that can dominate on outdoor maps? Blight.
Clown is just so underwhelming
Ok,how in the world is freddys anti-loop better than clowns?
It's way more spammable and you can preset strong areas like main buildings and shack
i got what you meant you have to think a certain way kinda like how you plan with hag if your actually good with her
Like if you don't have a certain mindset as hag and your just only trapping pallets it's comparable to if your just throwing bottles at survivors as clown. Predicting and planning ahead is what makes you actually good with these two killers clown just needs more on the fly thinking.