Kilmeran
Kilmeran
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@Peanits said:
@Kilmeran said:
@Peanits I see you're still commenting in the thread. Are you going to comment on the deranking going on without disconnects that two of us already mentioned to you in reply to your DC ban response (which doesn't solve deranking), or not?I also noticed in other threads the BHVR gets silent very quickly when we point out that many do not DC to derank, and deranking is a core problem well beyond any DC bans.
I'm trying not to derail the thread, since DCs don't really have anything to do with side objectives. It's also 3:30 AM as I'm jumping between threads replying and trying to stay on top of the spam attack going on, so derailing the thread isn't exactly a top priority.
If someone is intentionally running straight to the killer and dying, that could be seen as a form of griefing since it ruins the game for the other people in the lobby (odds are stacked against the other survivors if they're playing a man down). If we have proof of it happening multiple times, we could probably build a case on that.
For the event specifically, I wouldn't exactly count that as this is the first time an event like this has been attempted, and it's only temporary. If something like this is implemented into the base game permanently, I wouldn't be surprised if the emblem system took it into account.
I ain't shy about talking about it. We're doing what we can, and I'd like to do more. DCs are by far the biggest part of deranking and we just made a huge step in the right direction there. If other methods become more prevalent, we'll definitely look at them too and see how we can best deal with them as well. I've gone through thousands of reports about all sorts of things like that, so don't worry, we're well aware of it.
Fair enough, man. And understood. I see your point on match throwing and all. My main game is Overwatch, it's basically the same process over there.
And thanks for answering. I just got my hackles up a bit because in other threads where it was brought up, the only response we ever got was about the DC bans.
Anyway, I'll leave it be now. Again, thanks.
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@Peanits I see you're still commenting in the thread. Are you going to comment on the deranking going on without disconnects that two of us already mentioned to you in reply to your DC ban response (which doesn't solve deranking), or not?
I also noticed in other threads the BHVR gets silent very quickly when we point out that many do not DC to derank, and deranking is a core problem well beyond any DC bans.
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@Peanits said:
@Kilmeran said:
@Peanits said: Though I wouldn't be opposed to seeing rank mean more and start to more accurately reflect skill level.
That, right there, is the crux of the problem with a huge part of this game. I'm a new player, and already see how easy it is to Pip as Survivor. I will be Rank 15 before I even have enough Perks unlocked to be remotely viable as a new player.
Yet, I will then be in the ranks where the vets are deranking because they don't like the Red Ranks.
It's why I just shoved DBD to a side game that I might play every once in a while. Though I own all the current DLCs, I won't be rushing to buy the one in December or any in 2019. At least, not until BHVR does something about this excuse for a Rank system and makes it not only equate to skill, but also prevents the Vets from deranking like they are.
As a new player already having to do the BP grind for Perks (especially the needed Teachable Perks across different characters), but also play the RNG bloodweb, hitting Rank 15+ and getting stomped by deranked Vets while doing so . . . no thank you.
Regarding at least the deranking part, doing so is almost definitely going to land them in a DC ban wave. The penalties for excessive disconnecting were just massively increased (from 1d > 2d > 1w > permanent to 1w > 2w > 4w > permanent). So you should see much less deranking going forward.
That is not the only way they derank. You seem to be hooked on that talking point even in other threads. But the DC ban catches those who derank by disconnecting. There are many who never disconnect and derank on purpose. Hell, there are even enough streamers out there doing it and showing everyone else that views them how to do it.
It is very easy to derank by entering the match, letting the killer hook you by making sure he nails you, and killing yourself on the hook.
Loss of Pip, no disconnect involved. I.e. throwing the match. Which they do with absolute impunity.
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Withdrawn. Person no longer worth my time or effort
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@Peanits said: Though I wouldn't be opposed to seeing rank mean more and start to more accurately reflect skill level.
That, right there, is the crux of the problem with a huge part of this game. I'm a new player, and already see how easy it is to Pip as Survivor. I will be Rank 15 before I even have enough Perks unlocked to be remotely viable as a new player.
Yet, I will then be in the ranks where the vets are deranking because they don't like the Red Ranks.
It's why I just shoved DBD to a side game that I might play every once in a while. Though I own all the current DLCs, I won't be rushing to buy the one in December or any in 2019. At least, not until BHVR does something about this excuse for a Rank system and makes it not only equate to skill, but also prevents the Vets from deranking like they are.
As a new player already having to do the BP grind for Perks (especially the needed Teachable Perks across different characters), but also play the RNG bloodweb, hitting Rank 15+ and getting stomped by deranked Vets while doing so . . . no thank you.
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
@Kilmeran said:
@EqMonkVeeshan said:
again the thing that drives survivors is bloodpoints so this would work. I do not know a single survivor who would literally willingly pass up an opportunity to get a 100% bloodpoints boost in a match. unless they was absolutely getting destroyed in the match.The issue is, there are already Perks and Offerings that boost BP. There are already reasons to ignore the secondary objective when they become too problematic for the Survivors. At that stage, a BP bonus isn't going to matter. They'll ignore the secondary objective to gen-rush and escape, which is what too many consider the requirement for a "win."
The secondary objectives need to be tied into the generators. They need to be so they cannot be ignored, no matter what.
If you think that Survivors won't ignore a secondary objective if they can, BP or not, once they feel it becomes to problematic for them in relation to surviving, you don't understand the average player base.
if they are getting destroyed they would skip it yes of course who wouldn't but if the killer is already destroying them. then the match is already over. the secondary objective should not be a requirement to escape it should be something that gives proper incentive to extend the match out longer and optional but the risk versus reward has to be there.
You must be playing with a vastly different player base than the rest of us.
Hell, cleansing totems is a secondary objective and even grants BP, and they are largely ignored unless the killer is running a Hex perk. Sabotaging a hook is a secondary objective and can even benefit the survivor team, and is largely ignored. Neither is tied into the main objective of the game, the generators, and does nothing to alleviate the gen-rushing problem.
If you make it a secondary objective that can be ignored, then they damn well will ignore it in favor of gen-rushing and escaping. They already have two secondary objectives and largely ignore them. It just remained: Loop the killer, waste their time, pop the generators, escape.
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
again the thing that drives survivors is bloodpoints so this would work. I do not know a single survivor who would literally willingly pass up an opportunity to get a 100% bloodpoints boost in a match. unless they was absolutely getting destroyed in the match.The issue is, there are already Perks and Offerings that boost BP. There are already reasons to ignore the secondary objective when they become too problematic for the Survivors. At that stage, a BP bonus isn't going to matter. They'll ignore the secondary objective to gen-rush and escape, which is what too many consider the requirement for a "win."
The secondary objectives need to be tied into the generators. They need to be so they cannot be ignored, no matter what.
If you think that Survivors won't ignore a secondary objective if they can, BP or not, once they feel it becomes to problematic for them in relation to surviving, you don't understand the average player base.
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
@Kilmeran said:
I disagree. From a lot of posts I am seeing here and at other sites in regards to how the secondary objectives are done for Blight, this is exactly what not to do.While the game does need secondary objectives to slow down the gen-rushing, it needs secondary objectives that actually tie into the main objective. As some have repeatedly suggested, maybe first needing parts to collected before a generator can be repaired, or maybe fuel before it can be powered up.
Any secondary objective should absolutely tie into the main objective of the generators, otherwise you'll eventually find the secondary objective being ignored, regardless of any suggested BP bonus, in exchange for gen-rushing and escaping.
all I see is survivors crying because people are farming nectar first. I am a survivor main and yes people are trying to rush to get there blight cosmetics. but if you wait till later in this event when not so many are rushing to get the nectar you will see a far more balanced out match. this is exactly what they need to put in for a secondary objective. make it so four plants all give a 25% bloodpoint boost . in normal matches not in an event people will do a mix of gens and plants when they see them. or do the plants after the gates are powered. mind you it wouldn't be required to escape it would only offer enough incentive to grab them when you see them. so again i still say its the perfect mechanic for a secondary objective.
And again, I disagree. I did game design for 12 years and have seen what players will do. At first, a secondary objective like in Blight might very well slow the game down, but it will not last once the initial new-factor wears off. Not even for BP. Especially when the game already offers several Perks and Offerings that boost BP awards.
And then it becomes ignored, and turns out to be an overall waste of resources.
The secondary objectives have to tie into the generators somehow, if they are going to be used as anything except an event gimmick. Otherwise, it will not fix the gen-rushing issue over the long term.
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I disagree. From a lot of posts I am seeing here and at other sites in regards to how the secondary objectives are done for Blight, this is exactly what not to do.
While the game does need secondary objectives to slow down the gen-rushing, it needs secondary objectives that actually tie into the main objective. As some have repeatedly suggested, maybe first needing parts to collect before a generator can be repaired, or maybe fuel before it can be powered up.
Any secondary objective should absolutely tie into the main objective of the generators, otherwise you'll eventually find the secondary objective being ignored, regardless of any suggested BP bonus, in exchange for gen-rushing and escaping.
Secondary objectives have to be balanced around the primary objective, and in such a way that they cannot be ignored. Otherwise, they ultimately become a waste of development resources, and do nothing to fix the problem that is causing the need for secondary objectives in the first place: gen-rushing.
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I am so damned glad I decided to not play during this event, and just use cash for any of the skins I might want later. Looks like I saved myself a ton of unnecessary frustration.
Then again, I can live without skins, too. So, given how poorly executed this event looks to be, think I will spend the cash elsewhere.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Kilmeran said:
Then it is an extremely piss-poor test as a game play design test in regards to what is normally talked about. The secondary objective they have in place right now is disconnected from the core game, and farmable and abusable as people have already stated.Whereas the secondary objectives usually discussed, such as generator parts and/or fuel canisters, are directly connected to the core game: Being able to repair and power the generators to then power the gates.
You can't effectively datamine secondary objectives for the core game when using disconnected secondary objectives like this as your source.
And I'm speaking as someone who has done game design. I did it for 12 years.
While I agree it is disconnected from the core game play this is simply a theory and is in no way shape or form true, it's just what I'm thinking, whether it is or not doesn't really matter.
Survivors have always insta died, insta DCed etc, it happens, the same goes for killers DCing they all do it without reason DCs are being dealt with and survivors that go and chase the killer so they can be killed I suggest you maybe report them for unsportsmanlike conduct, I'm pretty sure it falls under that.
Oh, I know it's only your theory. Granted, I can see where my reply didn't indicate that.
As far as the behavior actually going on, it doesn't affect me at all. Since Dead by Daylight is really a side game for me, since I realized that I'm just not a huge fan of the asymmetrical genre after all (this was my first foray into it), I'm not even bothering with the event as an inexperienced new player. If there happens to be a Blight skin or two that I might want later, I'll just slap the cash down for them.
In the meantime, I'm just playing my main game (Overwatch) and I'll look into DBD again after the event ends and matches return to normal. Right now, I'm not even bothering to try to learn more of the game under these conditions.
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@SenzuDuck said: Whilst I agree this is an event, i do also think it's a test to see the impact of secondary survivor objectives to see how they fit in, if they do at all.
Then it is an extremely piss-poor test as a game play design test in regards to what is normally talked about. The secondary objective they have in place right now is disconnected from the core game, and farmable and abusable as people have already stated.
Whereas the secondary objectives usually discussed, such as generator parts and/or fuel canisters, are directly connected to the core game: Being able to repair and power the generators to then power the gates.
You can't effectively datamine secondary objectives for the core game when using disconnected secondary objectives like this as your source.
And I'm speaking as someone who has done game design. I did it for 12 years.
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@redsopine1 said:
Kilmeran said:@redsopine1 said:
Do you want a bottle suck it up for once the game is actually fun for a survivor and killer because now killers have ample time in the game to actively catch people and it makes you choose do I be a dick and fill up my vial or do I risk getting none by saving somone its basically free stuff vs bp easy as that expect alot of people to go for free stuff dont help anyone just max.both sides and then try to help or play swf and be a four man team and work together for your vials alternating who's chased and who grabs the flowers
Precisely. If anything, this just goes in favor of the argument that Survivors need other objectives, like the often-times suggested generator parts or fuel canisters.
Well, goes in favor of the argument unless you're a complaining survivor-main, I guess.
I dint main survivor but I'm gonna for the event just for the fact I want that trapper skin and my huntress skin lol and if your on ps4 my tags redsopine1 if you wanted to team up for vials
Nah, on PC buddy. I don't even own a console. I've been a PC gamer for decades, and at 46-years-old, me and console controllers don't seem to get along too well. Too much of my muscle memory for gaming is based on m+kb
But I do very much thank you for the offer.
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@redsopine1 said:
Do you want a bottle suck it up for once the game is actually fun for a survivor and killer because now killers have ample time in the game to actively catch people and it makes you choose do I be a dick and fill up my vial or do I risk getting none by saving somone its basically free stuff vs bp easy as that expect alot of people to go for free stuff dont help anyone just max.both sides and then try to help or play swf and be a four man team and work together for your vials alternating who's chased and who grabs the flowersPrecisely. If anything, this just goes in favor of the argument that Survivors need other objectives, like the often-times suggested generator parts or fuel canisters.
Well, goes in favor of the argument unless you're a complaining survivor-main, I guess.
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@Terrortot said:
You do realize you have to play both to get all the vials for 2 outfits? You are basically complaining that half your challenges are too difficult.Did you not see how many hooks equal one vial for killer?
Honestly, how many?
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@GrannyonAcid , He also failed to consider the fact that I'm a brand new DBD player. Between work and choosing to do the Overwatch event (since that is one of my main games), I don't have a lot of time in Dead by Daylight. Still less than 30 hours. That being said, it has also been a choice because while I see the fun in DBD, I have to admit that I am not a huge fan of the hide-and-seek asymmetrical game design. I like MMOs. I discovered I like hero-shooters. But this type of game, my first in the asymmetrical genre, is just not a design that is going to see it become a main staple in my library. It'll be more of a side game just for a horror-theme, slasher movie fix.
So, all that considered, I'm still learning the game. And I have little interest in now trying to do so for the next two weeks while fellow survivors are farming the nectar objective. So, it's best if I wait until after November 2nd to get back to DBD and try to get better at the core game.
And if I want any Blight skins, I can just buy them, now. To be honest, I was okay with the original idea that I wasn't going to get the Blight skins at all. That I can just buy them and still have them is a bonus for me.
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@GrannyonAcid said:
@Elegant said:
@Kilmeran said:
@Elegant said:
@GrannyonAcid said:
@Elegant said:
@Kilmeran said:
@Khalednazari said:
Can everyone just be happy now? The cosmetics are for all.Ummm, I was already happy. I'm busy doing an event in another game for cosmetics, so I could already just spend $70 and grab all the Blight skins from the store in a matter of seconds. Which I hope helps encourage them to keep such a model in the future.
So, I was never unhappy.
That's the kind of attitude that breeds pay to win games. I understand where you are coming from, but letting Devs get away with ######### business practices isn't a good thing for everyone. A better solution would have been to just have more of the costumes available through grinding for people that had the time and available to buy for people that didn't.
You know that pay 2 win has nothing to do with cosmetics?
No it doesn't.. But that's the kind of attitude that allows pay to win to continue in other games. Most of Korea has the exact same attitude as you and virtually every one of their games has a pay to win model because they don't mind paying money to save time. So companies make games incredibly grindy and let them pay to pass the grind. Sure, this game is just cosmetics. But, they wouldn't hesitate to add pay to win aspects if they could get away with it and make more money. The only reason pay to win isn't prevalent in the US/EU is because most people don't have your attitude towards games.
As for your pay2win agrument, to a degree DBD already has a mild pay2win. Just buy the base game, and no DLCs. Now try to Rank up and face those Red Rank builds. Do it all without ever having any of the Killer meta perks, all of which come from one DLC or another. You absolutely must buy the DLCs for all those killer teachable perks to survive the upper ranks, unless you are a highly skilled player to begin with (and most players aren't at that level and never will be).
And the Shrine of Secrets isn't really a factor given how infrequently the truly meta-perks for Killers appear in there.
So, yes, DBD already has a p2w aspect to it. You absolutely need a variety of DLCs just to be able to do a whole hell of a lot above the mid-ranks.
A point could be made for it being p2w but most wouldn't consider the DLCs to be pay to win. Especially since most of the DLC killers and perks aren't that great comparatively. But allowing the DLC characters to be unlocked with shards mostly got rid of the pay to win aspects. Mostly.
BBQ and Chili is like the #1 perk for killer. Hex: Ruin is like #2 (Isn't Hag DLC? Or was she free?)
On the other side you have D/S which is a DLC chapter. Dead-Hard (Not sure if David King was free) ... Nea was free I believe so Balanced Landing is free. But yeah there's a ton of good perks that were p2w. Not that I mind. I have no issue paying 5 dollars for a new killer.
Hag was a paid DLC. Nea came free with the Nurse and David came free with Huntress.
And yeah, I have no issue with the DLC model either. I was just pointing out to him that DBD already has a, as I put it, mild pay2win aspect to it.
And I do consider it to be a mild one, but it's still there. Especially in relation to how abysmally rare BBQ and Hex: Ruin are in the Shrine.
And note: I own all the DLCs except the couple of cosmetic ones, so this isn't about me needing the Shrine, either.
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@Elegant said:
@GrannyonAcid said:
@Elegant said:
@Kilmeran said:
@Khalednazari said:
Can everyone just be happy now? The cosmetics are for all.Ummm, I was already happy. I'm busy doing an event in another game for cosmetics, so I could already just spend $70 and grab all the Blight skins from the store in a matter of seconds. Which I hope helps encourage them to keep such a model in the future.
So, I was never unhappy.
That's the kind of attitude that breeds pay to win games. I understand where you are coming from, but letting Devs get away with ######### business practices isn't a good thing for everyone. A better solution would have been to just have more of the costumes available through grinding for people that had the time and available to buy for people that didn't.
You know that pay 2 win has nothing to do with cosmetics?
No it doesn't.. But that's the kind of attitude that allows pay to win to continue in other games. Most of Korea has the exact same attitude as you and virtually every one of their games has a pay to win model because they don't mind paying money to save time. So companies make games incredibly grindy and let them pay to pass the grind. Sure, this game is just cosmetics. But, they wouldn't hesitate to add pay to win aspects if they could get away with it and make more money. The only reason pay to win isn't prevalent in the US/EU is because most people don't have your attitude towards games.
As for your pay2win agrument, to a degree DBD already has a mild pay2win. Just buy the base game, and no DLCs. Now try to Rank up and face those Red Rank builds. Do it all without ever having any of the Killer meta perks, all of which come from one DLC or another. You absolutely must buy the DLCs for all those killer teachable perks to survive the upper ranks, unless you are a highly skilled player to begin with (and most players aren't at that level and never will be).
And the Shrine of Secrets isn't really a factor given how infrequently the truly meta-perks for Killers appear in there.
So, yes, DBD already has a p2w aspect to it. You absolutely need a variety of DLCs just to be able to do a whole hell of a lot above the mid-ranks.
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Withdrawn
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@Elegant said:
@Kilmeran said:
@Khalednazari said:
Can everyone just be happy now? The cosmetics are for all.Ummm, I was already happy. I'm busy doing an event in another game for cosmetics, so I could already just spend $70 and grab all the Blight skins from the store in a matter of seconds. Which I hope helps encourage them to keep such a model in the future.
So, I was never unhappy.
That's the kind of attitude that breeds pay to win games. I understand where you are coming from, but letting Devs get away with ######### business practices isn't a good thing for everyone. A better solution would have been to just have more of the costumes available through grinding for people that had the time and available to buy for people that didn't.
You need to either learn what Pay2Win is, or just remove the term from your vocabulary. I do not, and never will, financially support Pay2Win.
This is about cosmetics.
Or, you know, since I'm new to DBD, you could always enlighten me on how cosmetics are vital to game play and provide an in-game advantage . . . .
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@Khalednazari said:
Can everyone just be happy now? The cosmetics are for all.Ummm, I was already happy. I'm busy doing an event in another game for cosmetics, so I could already just spend $70 and grab all the Blight skins from the store in a matter of seconds, since I wouldn't be back in DBD until at least the first weekend or week of November.
Which I hope helps encourage them to keep such a model in the future.
So, I was never unhappy.
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@Dwight_Confusion said:
I would love a dev or @not_Queen to respond to our/my concerns.I'm not trying to be immature, but I'd like to know.
She already did. So, don't expect any changes.
Do note, though, that I was a new player. I was going to give the event a shot, but with the ability to just buy any of the skins from the shop, and at any point moving forward even after the event period ends, I went back to play the Halloween Terror event in Overwatch. Since the skins are a permanent cash shop addition in DBD, there's no need for me to bother with the event and dealing with the farmers. I was on the fence about this game, but the exclusive event skins would at least have kept me playing a little more. And who knows, the whole asymmetrical game design might have grown on me enough during the event to stay.
Instead, now I can just go do the events in Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm, and if I maybe try DBD again at any point in the future, just purchase the Blight skins at that time.
But here's a couple Not_Queen links from her comments record in her profile. Meanwhile I'm gonna jet from the forums. Right now: It's a perfect time for some mayhem.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/177370#Comment_177370
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/177383#Comment_177383
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@Tsulan said:
@MakoFenrir said:
Tsulan said:So you can get 1 complete outfit for FREE and you guys are still salty?
OMG this community.
19th - 2nd for 15 vials per side (30 if you max both killer and survivors) to get 3 random pieces or a full set with a slight bp bonus if you use an offering.
Not really an “event” We’re also entitled to an opinion. Yours doesn’t have to be the same.
We get more than the last events.
We can choose a full outfit out of 7.
Do i have to remind you, what we got during the last events? Last Halloween was a pumpkin head for the nurse (that´s it) Scorched BBQ = 1 hammer for Billy and a shirt for Kate.
This one is way more.Bloody hell. Is that really all they offered you guys for an event? Seriously? Wow. Without milking the ol' cash shop for an event, BHVR really does make them down right anemic.
This game has really made me reevaluate another studio that I had gotten a bit irritated with, I'll tell you that. BHVR has definitely put things into perspective for me.
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I was wondering that at first, especially since I am chasing cosmetics over in the Overwatch event as well, but after the news today, I realize that I don't have to. I can now just focus on the Overwatch event and playing that game, then if I want any DBD Blight skins after all, just buy them.
Whatever, BHVR. Thanks for making which event to actually play easy to decide on, I suppose.
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@Gilly said: Lootbox games like Overwatch get away with scarcity by also artificially imbalancing the scales-- however, they actually make their cosmetics more rare than other cosmetics and not just labeled 'rare'. I hate lootboxes, but they're a really good example of how to actually create scarcity and not just arbitrarily determine how scarce something is.
There's another huge difference with Overwatch as well. They not only give you a free lootbox every account level, which is an average of 8-10 matches, but things like their events are also in the arcade mode. Which means that in addition to the lootbox per account level, you also get a lootbox for each time you win three event matches (which in this case, is the easy Halloween PvE mode), or up to 3 extra lootboxes per week. And their event also runs for roughly 3 weeks time.
Not to mention, if you were a steady player before the event, you likely have coins already saved up.
The wife and I bought, with the in-game coin currency, all the new Halloween skins we wanted, and so far have all but one of the others just from the free arcade-wins and account-level lootboxes. We haven't spent any real money on the event, and haven't even played more than we usually do.
For newer players, yeah, they're probably buying lootboxes if they want everything. But so did we as new players back in 2016.
What's interesting is that I will gladly spend some money on Overwatch or Heroes of the Storm, despite my loathing of lootboxes, because Blizzard leaves it as a choice. After this event in DBD, Behavior Interactive isn't even getting DLC money out of me in December or moving forward into 2019. This game is very much an occasional side thing now. I'm a new player, this was my first DBD event. It will also be my last DBD event. Good job BHVR.
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They are $10 each.
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@Gilly said:
@Kilmeran said:
And I have to wonder how much of this model might be because they've obviously taken a financial bath on Deathgarden. Which also makes me wonder if this might not be the new event model moving forward. Right now, DBD is the only cash cow they can milk.
I don't mind them milking DBD as a cash cow, especially if their primary method of milking us for money is by releasing more killers. I feel like pulling a stunt like this is a bad direction, though.
I was talking about stunts like this. I don't personally consider KIller/Survivor DLCs as milking. That's why I specifically wondered about "event model," in my post.
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@Gilly said:
Slippery slope arguments have to terminate somewhere, though. If I had, for example, BHVR's word that every October would be another Hallowed Blight and we'd have a chance to earn more vials, or that every July was a BBQ, and the event lasted a whole month and we got in-game currency every time to purchase new sets which would be updated every year, I could feel more confident about this event and excited for the future. Instead, it seems to be screaming to me that I'll never be able to afford to have every outfit, even with the money I earn. That every event will be an excuse to pawn off new cosmetics only available with auric cells. I bought the game. I've bought all the DLC. I've bought every clothing pack they've released. But this event leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.And I have to wonder how much of this model might be because they've obviously taken a financial bath on Deathgarden. Which also makes me wonder if this might not be the new event model moving forward. Right now, DBD is the only cash cow they can milk.
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@TheShowtime7 said:
Its the truth tho, usually on twitch you have about 20k people on dbd for viewing and today was only about 10kYou also have some streamers broadcasting the new CoD game instead of DBD. Why? Because the CoD game is the new AAA kid on the block, and they're likely testing whether or not their viewership will increase while broadcasting it.
Like him or not (I don't personally care about him either way), but while scanning Twitch streamers the past two days, I notice that AngryPug has been doing more CoD than DBD, and he's 2k+ viewers right there. There was another one that usually busts close to 2k for DBD that was also doing CoD, but I forget his name off hand. They did stream some DBD as well, but it wasn't as long as usual.
Meanwhile, the steam charts are holding steady. So, yes, there are less people watching DBD right now, and at least one or two of the "big streamers" for DBD are testing out CoD broadcasts and taking their viewers there, but as for people playing on PC, steam shows no such drop in active players.
It simply looks like BHVR screwed up lobbies again. Last night Matt Cote streamed, and even he couldn't get his Killer lobby to pop. I'm sure it was a bit embarrassing.
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Yeah, I've never seen a major game with such an ongoing problem of spambots before. It actualy makes BHVR look inexperienced.
Okay, well, the forums aren't needed for that, but it doesn't help either.
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@apropos said: Advice other's have provided is good. But personally, I initially played as a survivor, but moved to a killer almost right away because I was literally too effing terrified to move when I played as a survivor, lol.
However, when I revisited survivor and tried to replicate what survivors did to get away from me when I was the killer, it wasn't scary anymore. The killers are pretty blind, so at times all one needs to do to escape is crouch and circle an object like a tree or bush. It even works in the middle of a chase at times. The field of view for killers is just tiny.
Oh, I've definitely noticed that about Killers. The FoV is tiny as hell, the controls for turning and strafing are wonky as all hell (and I've spent over an hour redoing and adjusting my DPI and in-game mouse sensitivity), the hitboxes are so bad they make Paladins' look consistent.
See, as far as First-Person, I came from Overwatch and some Paladins. I've played OW almost nightly since launch day, with only a three month break due to burn-out. I'm used to a certain responsiveness in first-person, be it Overwatch or Paladins. The responsiveness and FOV in DBD is atrocious. It would make sense if it at least decided to use movement acceleration for the killer's first-person (OW and Paladins do not, but I have played FPS' in the past that do), but it's not even that. It's like it tries to use movement acceleration, but then decides: Nah, screw it. And it feels like some bastardized love-child of using it and not using it. Meanwhile, I tell my Killer to strafe right, then move forward, and it's like he's moving in some low-gravity environment.
Now I'm not even sure I want to get good with Killer. The muscle memory this wonky stuff is going to require is most definitely going to screw with my OW game-play. And that's just a personal gaming line I'm not willing to cross. I'm not quitting Overwatch any time soon, and I'm in my mid-40s, it already took a while for me to get all the muscle memory for flexing into a decent Hero roster as needed, in the first place.
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@Terrortot said:
Kilmeran said:@CoolAKn said:
@Kilmeran said:
@ZombieGenesis said:
@Kilmeran Starting as a survivor will certainly help you learn the pacing of the game. It also helps by showing you what survivors experience; what they can see and hear. You'll also get a feel for how they move and roam around the map, which can help for anticipating their moves as a killer. I suggest at least always doing the survivor dailies even if you're a killer main.
Originally, I found Survivor boring, but that was also frustration by the Skill Checks not stopping precisely when I hit the button. Considering I have a top-of-the-line keyboard and set-up, that pissed me off to no end. I have never had a game with any delay in key-press to action before.
But if that's the best way to learn the game, I suppose I have dealt with worse things in games in the past.
Edit: Actually, it was more than that. The delay was inconsistent. Sometimes there would be that delay several skill checks in a row, or an entire match. Then, all of a sudden, it wouldn't delay, which then caused the skill check to miss early because I was pressing for the delay. That ######### is what made me originally walk away from survivor.
I find myself in the same boat. Some matches, the delay becomes too much that I feel practically worthless for the entire match. I'd play killer more if the lobbies didn't take an hour to fill up.
Yeah, and it makes it more difficult to develop the muscle memory for it. Will it delay? If so, how much? Will it not delay? Why the hell is this a needed prayer to RNGesus?
Skill checks are client side not host, you can be in the middle of killer disconnect and skill checks will still appear.
Yeah, I know that, which makes the framerate drop that would randomly cause it extremely annoying. Especially because the graphics in this game aren't that intense to begin with. I can run Overwatch on the highest and maintain high FPS, even in the middle of a full team-on-team battle with all the particle effects exploding everywhere.
The only other thing I can think of is that they have DBD optimized for #########, even on PC.
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@Lowbei and @ChesterTheMolester I've actually decided to give it another shot, I just couldn't play anything tonight.
I was trying to start as a Killer, and that is incredibly tough as a brand new player. I'm going to start over on Survivor side and learn how that side operates, how the maps are laid out, and all that jazz. Then go Killer at a later time, once I have some game time and experience under my belt.
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@Dudddd said:
Kilmeran said:@Dudddd said:
Lowbei said:
Dudddd said: With the DC ban their goal was to stop people from rage quitting but people still rage quit LOL i guess no one cares anymore based on how bad the games become . the games population shows a steady increase over time. the dc ban is working as intended. most people like the new patch. deal with it.
Nice try buddy 13k is alot isnt it yep , solo survivor is unplayable and swf you get dodged probably play 6 games in 1 hour as SWF the amount of time you get lobby dodged.
Nice try, but you're not actually using the real data. 13k during night time EST hours has been the norm for a few months. During the day, particularly in the afternoon, DBD brings in 25k to 30k players and is often within the top 12 games on steam during those hours.
Also, if you look at the Average Player data from June 2016 until now, you do see an overall growth, a severe drop from winter 2017 until summer 2017, then relative growth from summer 2017 until now.
https://steamcharts.com/app/381210
LOL who are you trying to convince ?? people are more active at night due to the fact they get off from work/ school ect but nice try reminiscing about past growth we’re in the present buddy only time the game has 35k active players is during double bloodpoints
Actually, try again. I check the steam charts daily for DBD because that helps determine when I choose to play, since I am an author and work from home.
And daily, including last week, yesterday, today, DBD peaks at 25k to 30k in the afternoon hours. I agree, it goes against what we normally see in video game active user statistics, but it seems to be what happens with DBD. They peak in the afternoon and drop-off in the evening, and then hover around 13k or so at night.
I see this daily with my own eyes.
And before you assume I am a DBD fanboi, look at my post history. Even as of yesterday, I tore this game a new ass and was walking out the door to go back to Overwatch. And I still haven't logged into it yet, since that post.
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@Dudddd said:
Lowbei said:
Dudddd said:With the DC ban their goal was to stop people from rage quitting but people still rage quit LOL i guess no one cares anymore based on how bad the games become .
the games population shows a steady increase over time. the dc ban is working as intended. most people like the new patch. deal with it.
Nice try buddy 13k is alot isnt it yep , solo survivor is unplayable and swf you get dodged probably play 6 games in 1 hour as SWF the amount of time you get lobby dodged.
@Lowbei We don't typically agree on much, but this time I have to agree.
And @Dudddd Nice try, but you're not actually using the full data. 13k during night time EST hours has been the norm for a few months. During the day, particularly in the afternoon, DBD brings in 25k to 30k players and is often within the top 12 games on steam during those hours.
Also, if you look at the Average Player data from June 2016 until now, you do see an overall growth, a severe drop from winter 2017 until summer 2017, then relative growth from summer 2017 until now.
But considering that DBD is consistently somewhere in the top 10-12 games or so during its afternoon (east coast time) peak hours, and typically in the top 20-25 games placement in its nighttime off hours, I'd say it's doing fine.
Unlike many games, DBD seems to run in afternoon peak and nighttime off, hours.
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@CoolAKn said:
@Kilmeran said:
@ZombieGenesis said:
@Kilmeran Starting as a survivor will certainly help you learn the pacing of the game. It also helps by showing you what survivors experience; what they can see and hear. You'll also get a feel for how they move and roam around the map, which can help for anticipating their moves as a killer. I suggest at least always doing the survivor dailies even if you're a killer main.Originally, I found Survivor boring, but that was also frustration by the Skill Checks not stopping precisely when I hit the button. Considering I have a top-of-the-line keyboard and set-up, that pissed me off to no end. I have never had a game with any delay in key-press to action before.
But if that's the best way to learn the game, I suppose I have dealt with worse things in games in the past.
Edit: Actually, it was more than that. The delay was inconsistent. Sometimes there would be that delay several skill checks in a row, or an entire match. Then, all of a sudden, it wouldn't delay, which then caused the skill check to miss early because I was pressing for the delay. That ######### is what made me originally walk away from survivor.
I find myself in the same boat. Some matches, the delay becomes too much that I feel practically worthless for the entire match. I'd play killer more if the lobbies didn't take an hour to fill up.
Yeah, and it makes it more difficult to develop the muscle memory for it. Will it delay? If so, how much? Will it not delay? Why the hell is this a needed prayer to RNGesus?
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@ZombieGenesis Originally, I found Survivor boring, but that was also frustration by the Skill Checks not stopping precisely when I hit the button. Considering I have a top-of-the-line keyboard and set-up, that pissed me off to no end. I have never had a game with any delay in key-press to action before.
But if that's the best way to learn the game, I suppose I have dealt with worse things in games in the past.
Edit: Actually, it was more than that. The delay was inconsistent. Sometimes there would be that delay several skill checks in a row, or an entire match. Then, all of a sudden, it wouldn't delay, which then caused the skill check to miss early because I was pressing for the delay. That ######### is what made me originally walk away from survivor.
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@apropos said:
If you're having a hard time as a survivor, you're going to have a really hard time as a killer. Which means that you won't be making any more bloodpoints by simply playing as a killer.So, being a new player, should I learn the Survivor side before trying to go Killer-main? So far, starting with Killer, I damn near walked away from this game for good yesterday. Right now, I'm sitting very much on the fence. But trying to play Killer as a brand new player . . . well . . . suddenly the issues I left Overwatch over didn't seem to matter much anymore, and I was prepared to just head on back.
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@powerbats said:
@Kilmeran said:
@Sythalin said:
Which is exactly my point in general. You outplayed the killer, avoided detection and escaped yet you are awarded less than if you stand out in the open, loop the killer for 5 min and still die by the end of the game. In the latter, I've personally pulled Gold+ before, thus why I can't wrap my head around the logic of playing better = less reward.Yes, and it is by purposeful design. The Devs want some sort of engagement between the two sides, not simply avoiding the killer entirely, popping gens, and rushing the door. Which is why Evader is designed how it is. You might feel that by completely avoiding the killer and their terror radius all game that you won. And depending on your preferred way to play, you might be right. By the Dev's game design, however, you will not get advancement in the Evader emblem because that is not how the designers want the game to be played. Therefore, that play-style does not reward Evader emblem advancement.
By the Dev's design choices for DBD, engaging the terror radius near the killer and being unseen (bigger risk) or being seen and chased and escaping (bigger risk) is how they want the game played. Avoiding killer entirely all game (lesser risk) isn't worthy of a reward. They want risk and engagement to take place in a DBD match.
The problem with that is it encourages endless looping and or gen rushing which killers hate, so survivors have to do 1 or the other. I'm not going to go run the killer endlessly because I suck at looping and i'm not going to challenge a Bubba/Nurse/Billy etc by running in plain sight of them just to get screwed.
It seriously needs to be changed to suit both play styles so that not everyone is forced into the 1 playstyle because otherwise get ready for endless looping then. If I've got to learn how to endlessly loop in order to get that i'll finally break down and do it.
Yep. And I agree with everything you said. Not only about how it encourages endless looping of the Killer, but also how it needs to be changed to accommodate both stealth play-styles.
Brother, you will get zero argument from me about that.
(By the way, I, too, suck at looping.)
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@Sythalin said:
Which is exactly my point in general. You outplayed the killer, avoided detection and escaped yet you are awarded less than if you stand out in the open, loop the killer for 5 min and still die by the end of the game. In the latter, I've personally pulled Gold+ before, thus why I can't wrap my head around the logic of playing better = less reward.Yes, and it is by purposeful design. The Devs want some sort of engagement between the two sides, not simply avoiding the killer entirely, popping gens, and rushing the door. Which is why Evader is designed how it is. You might feel that by completely avoiding the killer and their terror radius all game that you won. And depending on your preferred way to play, you might be right. By the Dev's game design, however, you will not get advancement in the Evader emblem because that is not how the designers want the game to be played. Therefore, that play-style does not reward Evader emblem advancement.
By the Dev's design choices for DBD, engaging the terror radius near the killer and being unseen (bigger risk) or being seen and chased and escaping (bigger risk) is how they want the game played. Avoiding killer entirely all game (lesser risk) isn't worthy of a reward. They want risk and engagement to take place in a DBD match.
They have wanted this and enforced this since the game's launch. If you prefer to be rewarded for a different type of play-style, you simply aren't going to be. Whether that is right or wrong is immaterial, too. It is simply how DBD has been designed to be played.
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If you look at the actual description for the emblem and how the points are awarded, it is for (1) being in a chase and escaping, or (2) being in the Killer's terror radius and not being seen.
So, you have to be stealthy and in the terror radius. If you're just being stealthy and avoiding being near the killer outright, then that is why your emblem is so low. It still requires you to at least engage with the terror radius for the emblem advancement.
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@Elegant said:
You don't balance things based on how they are played at the middle/lower levels. You balance characters around how strong they are on the highest levels.That works in a vast majority of games who have a Ranking or MMR system that actually means those at the top levels are the most skilled in the game.
Dead by Daylight, however, does not.
In DBD, you simply play enough and long enough and you will be in the Red Ranks. It's like Baby's First Top Rank. Until, or unless, they actually overhaul the entire Rank system as it stands currently, balancing around the "Top Ranks" is the same as balancing around the "middle ranks." In addition to the Ranking-Up system having no actual equivalence to skill, you also have highly skilled players who should be in the Red Ranks purposefully, and easily, deranking to the middle ranks.
The entire rank system is so diluted that it doesn't have the equivalent of skill that it needs to, and should. And until they overhaul the entire damned thing to actually function as a Rank system, they will never have enough accurate data to balance correctly.
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@DeadByFlashlight said:
@ToastfaceKilla said:
I don't think its deranked Rank 1 players, because I never see these ######### at R1, only at reset. What is it about Rank Reset that brings out the absolute worst of players.Take a break from DBD for at least one week after the rank reset.
A lot of Vets say this and, as a former new player, it boggled the mind. So, hey, take a break and only play 3-weeks out of a month.
Great game design. I have to wonder if any of these Devs have real training or experience in Game Design. So much of this game feels like it was an assignment for a college course. An assignment that should get a failing grade, mind you.
Being "forced" to not play when a new season starts isn't as bad in other games like Overwatch or Heroes of the Storm, where the first and last weeks of a season are complete trash. In those games, you actually have other game modes available, and can still play the ######### game.
In DBD, it's . . . yeah, I refer back to the whole assignment for a college course comparison.
I look at Behavior Interactive, and they're definitely not some small, inexperienced indie company: https://www.bhvr.com/
So why is DBD designed like they are?
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@ScottJund said: See you in a week.
Fine, one more post just to put that to rest here and now.
If you mean the Blight event, then I'm afraid not. I'm already turned off the game as a new player. There's absolutely no reason, and no investment from me into the game, to feel any need to play the event.
I've returned to Overwatch, where I am enjoying Halloween Terror and a game that isn't so damned broken. I've been in Overwatch since launch, and will continue to be in Overwatch. I tried DBD, it didn't work out.
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You know what, I'm already bored as ######### with the whole thing.
You have Vets deranking and stomping lower-rank (and sometimes fairly new) players and defending it.
You have BHVR endorsing such people simply because they provide free marketing, which also endorses said behavior to all the viewers.
You have a rank reset every goddamn month so that Vets are dumped with lower ranked and newer players, thereby further screwing up such matches.
With over two years behind the game, you now have a completely new player unfriendly bloodpoint grind system that forces you to level character after character, even if you would never enjoy playing them (which still causes wasted bloodpoints at bare minimum) just to get teachables that you need in order to make Perk builds that are even the least bit viable on a character you might actually want to play. Because without those Perk combinations, you're at a disadvantage as you inevitably rank up. Add to it, most new players will likely rank up to at least the green ranks (where those Vets have deranked to) before they even begin to have the needed Perks.
The Teachables, after all that asinine grind, are then completely RNG as to whether or not, or even when, they appear in another bloodweb.
This is further added to every three months with new Killers/Survivors and new Perks being dumped into the game.
SWF and outside voice comm. Not saying more about that.
I tried, but this game is just not for new players. Unfortunately, with all of its issues against being a new player, some of which is fostered by some members of the community, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to shelve the game, move on, and recommend against it in the future.
This is my final post on the forums.
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@Peanits said:
Giche said:@Kilmeran said:
The problem, though, is when BHVR directly rewards streamers like Jendenise. I'm waiting to see if anyone from BHVR replies to the Page-6 post I tagged them in, asking them for a comment since she has now openly admitted to the behavior in this thread.
Maybe reminding them wouldn't hurt.
@Peanits i would love to hear some official thoughts on sponsored streamers intentionally DCing to ruin games, to then ruin low rank killers games as well by bullying new players.
I'm sure I've already answered this exact question elsewhere in the thread, unless I'm thinking of another thread. But everyone is subject to the same rules. If some disconnects from over a certain percentage of their total games, they'll still be flagged and banned. The system that flags them does not care who they are, and nobody's double checking each one to see if they're a streamer.
@Peanits And what about Streamers not DC'ing, but actively deranking live on their Streams? Jendenise, one of your Fog Whisperer Pilot Program Streamers, has already posted several times in this thread not only admitting to actively deranking (not DC'ing, mind you) but even defending the practice.
Is BHVR saying that actively deranking without DC'ing is allowed? So the Rank system means little? Or is that also against the rules? And if it is, then how is it that BHVR chose Jendenise to represent the DBD community via Twitch in the Fog Whisperers when she actively deranks, has now admitted to it in this thread, and defends the practice? Through her posts in this thread and through her actions in her Stream with upwards of 1k to 2k viewers, she is endorsing deranking to lower skilled ranks.
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@GrannyonAcid said:
Is being toxic actually a bannable offense? Never really thought about this one. I don't care about the DC thing, never do it myself. But when someone complains I usually tell them to go cry to someone else and leave the lobby. Hopefully I don't have to start being nice to people.Depends on the studio. I don't know about with BHVR, but in Overwatch or Heroes of the Storm, for example, Blizzard will silence your text and voice chat for at least a week as their first action. Then with the second punishment if you continue once that ends, the temp-bans start. The third ban is a permanent vacation from the game.
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@Rottimic said:
Step 1: Start spreading the notion that Rank doesn't matter at all in this game, use your influence and fellow streamer friends to push this ideaStep 2: Mock people who do care about achieving and maintaining Rank 1. They're "tryhards". They're "sweaty". Their whatever "icky" adjective you want to apply to them. Because it's 2018, caring about things is so last year.
Step 3: Derank for easier games since you've now set up the false notion that Rank 15-1 is all the same. So who does it hurt if you're stomping on lesser skilled / newer players? It's their fault they got paired up with someone with 2k+ hours r ight?
People gave Marth ######### with reasons like "Of course his depip squad won, he's got a SWF with a combined total of 10k+ hours". But of course it's okay when other streamers need to meme in the low ranks because DbD is their job so they need to give laughs to their chat.
DbD wasn't made to give streamers a stable income. That's the goal it provides for BHVR. So it's a ridiculous argument to say "I have to bend the rules and abuse the matchmaking system, I'm not getting as much money otherwise!"
Stream another game if you can't be bothered to sit in a lobby and wait for a game like the rest of us. No special privileges should be given out because someone can't farm as many bits/donations while they spew insults at strangers every 10-15 minutes as they would like
No streamer would make or break Dead by Daylight if they just left. There's enough fresh blood that even if all the major streamers just decided to quit, swarms of people would rush in to fill the gap and in a few months no one would even care about the old guard.
You are absolutely right. Especially the last part. Again, since Overwatch has been my main game since 2016, I can give an example. After Brigitte was released, pretty much all the major streamers left Overwatch. Even huge Overwatch streamers like TimTheTatman left the game and just went to Fortnite.
Know what happened?
Other streamers have taken their place, fresh blood did come in, and some of the established, albeit smaller, Streamers filled the void and got more viewers. Yes, the viewership spread out more between them, but the viewers for Overwatch streaming still remained for the most part.
The big guys (toxic or not toxic) are not irreplaceable. They just think they are.
The problem, though, is when BHVR directly rewards streamers like Jendenise. I'm waiting to see if anyone from BHVR replies to the Page-6 post I tagged them in, asking them for a comment since she has now openly admitted to the behavior in this thread.
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@Elegant said: Yea I agree that the DBD perk system isn't new player friendly at all. But, it at least has something for players to grind for and feel rewarded once they get it. Deathgarden only has a few cosmetics and that's it. Games like overwatch can get away with it because it's more of a competitive mulitplayer style game. Same as LoL and Dota. Games like DBD and Deathgarden will decline in players when those players feel like they have nothing to play for/work for. DBD has an amazing opportunity to do something fun and awesome with devotion. But, they have currently made account leveling as lame as they possibly can. There are zero rewards outside of currency you need to get stuff from the store. And that was just moved from one place to another. DBD has a lot of opportunities to do great things but they don't appear that they want to atm.
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. And I agree, the two game styles are vastly different. I was an MMO player for 20 years until Overwatch came out. I did my share of PvP in MMOs, especially WoW. The one thing I eventually grew to hate is the fact that you have to chew so much glass just to grind points for gear just to be able to even remotely stand a chance.
Overwatch came along, and I loved it. Learn the heroes, the ins and out of their kits, learn how to gauge enemy cooldowns and ultimate charge, learn the maps. It was player skill vs player skill to a large degree (but not completely, due to heroes countering heroes).
Eventually gave their Heroes of the Storm game a try, and loved it for the same reason.
Hell, I even enjoy Paladins with their loadout system. Especially because all cards are automatically unlocked, you then just spend 15-points adjusting their levels. Been playing it for almost a year now, on the side, and still haven't tired of it because I can experiment with different loadouts. And don't have to grind them, or grind and pray to RNGesus like in DBD, before I can do so.
Come over the DBD, and it's like the old MMO PvP gear-grind all over again, with Vets being way ahead of new players and able to even troll and grief new players.
I am realizing that that particular PvP game design is probably not for me anymore.