FrostySeal
FrostySeal
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Some people on the forums and other places treat it like a kids game because the fanbase used to consist of mostly of young teens a while back.
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They're a hard Killer to learn and get good at, but once you do they become the best Slugger in the game. Victor has no counterplay in the chase and when combined with things like sloppy butcher you can constantly pressure teams.
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Nemesis, Trickster, Twins, PHead, Deathslinger, GF, Plague, Legion, Spirit, Clown, Pig, Freddy, Bubba, Huntress, Doctor, Hag, Myers, Nurse, Wraith, and Trapper.
Yeah survivor is a pretty miserable experience for me.
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Nope, this map is objectively bad. Your allowed to like it but saying that it's a good map is wrong. Not only is it massive map, which makes killers like Deathslinger and Huntress suffer, but it also has a decent amount of god pallets and even an infinite on it. Also as a survivor it's extremely tough to find generators and totems, meaning that you'll spend precious minutes of your time running around like headless chicken.
It has all the qualities that make a bad map a bad map. Big, indoors, God pallets, extremely garbage pallets, and dark.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
Funny enough I've never had the map as killer yet have had it like 9+ times as survivor though
Unluckily enough I've gotten this map a decent amount of times as survivor and killer.
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@Seanzu said:
You should just keep playing killer honestly, if the worst that's happening if you're being t-bagged and flashlight clicked at least you're able to play the match out in it's entirety for maximum points, unlike being tunneled out of the match if you're found first and what not.
Yeah during this event I've been playing a lot more Killer than survivor because despite the annoying toxicity I still win the match unless I'm playing a really bad Killer like Trickster or Trapper.
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Either Blight, Oni, or pre-nerf Hillbilly. These Killers are all very powerful but also very fair meaning that both sides can have fun.
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Yeah, I hate him for the same exact reasons. I understand that nowadays Killers need to have some sort of anti-loop as to not get looped for extremely long periods of time but when it becomes the whole focus of the Killer then that's when it becomes unhealthy. They should be fair and balanced like Blight, Oni, and Hillbilly, these Killers have very powerful anti-looping abilities but they give the survivor multiple chances to juke them or outplay them. Despite this they are often considered as some of the most balanced Killers in the game and are also almost always positively received when it comes to fun (playing as and against.)
Killers like Deathslinger, Spirit, Trickster, Nemesis, and others are often negatively received due to survivors finding them extremely unfun and unfair to go up against and Killers suffering in the 1v4 causing them to lose multiple gens despite fast chase times. I for one just can't stand these types of Killers, the most fun part of the game is the chase and when you cause one side to be overly oppressive what do you have in the end? Just mindlessly holding M1 and walking around? That just isn't fun for anyone.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Playing survivor must be a miserable experience for you 😐️
Yup, it sure is :(
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Because back then they were a much smaller team with a much tighter budget.
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@Edgars_Raven said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2310532#Comment_2310532
Agreed, but whats funny to me is there were some people, myself included, that said this a long time ago and were told to git gud. Just find it humurous that killers and survivors are catching up lol
I've always also preferred looping, never really understood why people complained about it unless the loop was an infinite. Way more fun than mindlessly holding down a single button for 20 seconds
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@SilentPill said:
Let me get the TLDR. Nemesis main? Three health state enthusiasts seem more likely to cry about this.
Nope, Blight main, but I've been playing him recently and I've noticed that almost every survivor I go up against just holds W against me instead of trying to loop me, which is understandable, but still boring for the both of us.
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Don't:
- Balance around the top 1 percent of the game. Most people in this game are casual players and balancing around a competitive scene will kill the game due to the casual player base having to sweat every match and competitive players still being dissatisfied with the games imbalanced state.
- Don't balance around new players either, that causes a lot of problems later on as people get better and better at the game.
I don't really have much for Do's but one obvious one would be to communicate with your community more for balancing issues and whatnot.
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Wdym? The twins are a high A tier Killer, most people don't know how to play against them and in situations where you have multiple people injured you can go on a mass slugging spree with how strong and fast Victor is at downing people. Their early game is the worst part of them but even then their midgame more than makes up for it with the strongest slugging ability in the game, even more than or at least equal to Oni.
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B8
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Noob3 and Otz are my favorite
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@Callmehandsome said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286634#Comment_2286634
Both evolve and Deathgarden died because they balanced the game around majority. It wasn't uncommon that scavengers had hilariously long queque compared to hunter. This should speak how unbalanced the game was.
Saying that you cannot high level gameplay in dead by daylight is same as saying that survivors should stay overpowered in high level gameplay. I don't know how to balance it, but at the same time a lot survivors on this forums are crying that 2 killers that can challenge these high level survivors need to be nerfed. Devs have managed to do some good stuff to nerf high rank survivors like DS rework and Object rework, which won't negatively hurt low rank survivors barely at all.
Evolve is debatable but Deathgarden was definitely treated and presented as a competitive asymmetrical game.
No, saying you cannot have high level balance in DBD is NOT the same as saying survivors should stay OP at the top. Also big difference between balancing for 4 good players and 4 man swf who have been playing the game for years trying their absolute hardest to win a match no matter the cost. If you try to balance the game around the top 1 percent it will kill the game. I've explained it in great detail already in my previous replies to other people, but in short it would require so many changes that not only would it take years to do (during that time no chapters will be posted due to how many changes will need to take place) but it would also take everything that current DBD does now and pretty much make it unrecognizable. RNG on maps? Can't have that, too unbalanced. Speaking of maps most of them would need to be changed to be either dead dawg size or coal tower size, anything more is too large. There would also need to be a drastic decrease in loops and all killers would need to be buffed into S tier which would take an insane amount of time especially considering how some Killers like trickster are fundamentally flawed meaning they need an entire power rework like Freddy.
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Nothing beats Darkness among us, that was easily the worst chapter in the game by far. Brought in an extremely survivor sided map with the most problematic Killer ever and a mediocre survivor.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286529#Comment_2286529
I am listening just fine. Neither you nor anyone else in the community has provided evidence that asymmetrical would be different. It's just a talking point that people think justifies itself, and so it gets spammed.
I just brought up Deathgarden, a competitive asymmetrical game that you apparently choose to either not read about or accidently skip over. Oh yeah, what about that other infamous game Evolve? The asymmetrical game that tried to be competitive but also failed?
Also the difference between those competitive games with casual players and DBD is that DBD started out and still is a casual game, those games started out as competitive games so players knew what they were getting themselves into. Turning DBD into a competitive experience would require so much work and effort that by the time everything was done (hypothetically) most players would be turned off by how much the game would have changed and how it is STILL imbalanced. I've told you this multiple times but it is impossible to balance asymmetrical games, you can't ever do it. The only way you would ever make DBD into a competitive game is if you removed every map except for coal tower, removed all the RNG from that map and made it static, kept only Nurse, Spirit, Blight, and Hag, and made it so they can only have the most competitive build, and the same thing for survivors too. Does that sound like a fun game to you? Do you think that people would still play DBD if it turned into that?
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@MarcoPoloYolo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286460#Comment_2286460
Well, if they fix the top 1 percent and MMR is functioning and on, bad survivors won't match up with the good killers as often until they get better. The DBD community is the only community I know that's like "Oh god, you can't possibly balance around players that know how to play the game!!!!!" What makes you think that killers only killing survivors because they are outright bad at the game won't eventually kill the game? It's boring to have your limits determined mainly by the skill of the other side (and killer is more stressful, so that makes it worse). It can make you feel like your a passive actor rather than an active one. Now, there are the top tier killers where this is not the case. However, this is 4 killers in the roster at best, 2 at the worst, making it boring in another sense. Why do you think survivor queues are bad?
As for the video you posted, Scott's logic is incredibly flawed. The path forward is so obvious, and he somehow didn't process it. It's not a monumental task to balance the game. Balance the game around the general level of mid/high-tier killers, buff the low-tier killers, and nerf the high-tiers down to that level. I don't think anyone in their right mind has ever been saying that Nurse and Spirit should remain unchanged if survivors got nerfed. The reason why they're ok at all is because survivors are just so overpowered against the other killers. So the game could be in a far more healthy state in about 4 chapters.
Yes, MMR would fix a decent amount of the issues, but like I stated a million times, there is a difference between balancing for good players and balancing around the top 1 percent. And you are heavily underestimating how much work it would take to balance Killers around a high level, perhaps if BHVR weren't so slow it would take less time.
Lets assume BHVR took on the monumental task of making every Killer at the bare minimum an A-tier killer, this would require so much work to do it isn't even funny. Some Killers like trickster are fundamentally flawed meaning they need a full on rework and other Killers would need a lot of buffs including addon reworks and other things. This means that assuming BHVR doesn't mess up on a single Killer rework it would take well over a year to make every Killer strong, and this isn't even touching upon how they may add new Killers during that time and that they were all strong and didn't come out weak. Also not assuming all the map reworks that would need to happen due to some (like haddonfield or disturbed ward) being too strong for survivor, also not including the amount of perk reworks that would need to be done in order to bring the game into a more balanced state. Combine all of that and it'll take BHVR minimum one and a half years (once again assuming they don't mess up) and I haven't even talked about to sheer amount of bugs that would need to be taken care of resulting in even more time coding.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286472#Comment_2286472
Most of the playerbase in competitive games is casual. Again, they don’t leave. This idea that balancing for top level will kill the game is baseless.
Kinda funny how you just refused to acknowledge the part where I explained that those competitive games aren't asymmetrical huh? Go ahead, show me one competitive ASYMMETRICAL game that hasn't died out and is in fact bustling with players. I've already explained why it won't work but your not listening.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286395#Comment_2286395
I watched it. I have also been a competitive gamer for years. Balancing around top players doesn’t affect the playerbase in any other game.
Because those game aren't asymmetrical are they? Look at any example of an asymmetrical game trying to be competitive and you'll see a pattern real damn quick. Look at deathgarden, BHVR's attempt at making a competitive asymmetrical game. Explain to me how that game is doing right now. Like I sad earlier, most players in this game are casual players and as such forcing the game into a competitive scene will put those players off the game which will kill most of the playerbase. Then the remaining few players will be put off by the extremely long queue times and the fact that in order to win a game of DBD now you'll have to play extremely competitively.
Scott has made a video's explaining how balancing around the top percent of DBD will kill the game fast. Watch it.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2284121#Comment_2284121
Just because it is rare doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.
Imagine if a killer offering existed, that only had a 0.1% chance to appear in the bloodweb. This means it would appear in about 1 out of every 1000 games. Now, let's say this offering:
- Makes the killer get max 32k bloodpoints
- Killer moves at 200% movement speed
- Survivors are permanently exposed
- Survivors auras are permanently revealed to the killer.
Would that offering be balanced? It only appears in 1 out of every 1000 games. So the offering is fine, right?
Go ahead, explain to me how would BHVR be able to "fix" the top 1 percent players without killing their game, I'll wait. I've already brought up examples in my earlier replies to different people so I won't repeat it but any attempt to balance the game around the top 1 percent, especially in an asymmetrical game will cause the game to die extremely quickly.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2284121#Comment_2284121
I don't understand this mentality that strong players shouldn't be the point that a game is balanced around. Pro players are a very small portion of many PvP, and yet those games still usually try to balance around that very small portion of players. DBD is exempt from this because...what? Asymmetrical? More than 2 players?
Like I said with the other guy, big difference between balancing for good players and a 4 man comp team that are trying their hardest to win. You can't balance around pro players in asymmetrical games because asymmetrical games are impossible to balance and forcing it to be a competitive game will kill it extremely fast. Most players in DBD are casual players and forcing the game to be put in a competitive scene will force them to leave the game, leaving the extremely small percent of people who play the game seriously, and guess what? Those players will leave too because the game has now become so unrecognizable that they're completely off put by it. Plus most pro players spend their time on games like Valorant, CSGO, etc because those games are actually somewhat balanced, all asymmetrical games are unbalanced meaning you can lose just because you had bad RNG. It's for that reason any asymmetrical game that has tried to be competitive (like deathgarden) die early on.
You can watch Scott's video on why you can't balance around the top 1 percent in DBD for more examples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIOQ0G7LcGY -
@Callmehandsome said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2284121#Comment_2284121
You didn't watch these videos clearly. They had rule that they aren't allowed to cleanse ruin and Tru3 still got stomped lmao
I watched the video and I explained earlier, Wraith was easily one of the worst options he could've picked. Wraith heavily relies on a hit and run playstyle which works just fine in regular games but in a competitive scene it falls apart. There is no point in having ruin or any perk for that matter if you aren't able to apply pressure to survivors. Hell, even if he picked Trickster he could've probably done better, Trickster is a great camper and he would've been able to secure 1, maybe even 2 kills.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2284121#Comment_2284121
The build is irrelevant: he would have lost either way. The game needs to be balanced to prevent games like that from happening. By not balancing for good players, BHVR is pretty much saying they don’t care about people who have really put alot of time and money into their game. Why should a killer wanna play in matches that they have no chance in? There is a reason survivor que sucks.
Yes, I know he would've lost either way but with a more competitively viable build he could've done much better. The game should be balanced for good players, but there is a MASSIVE difference between balancing between good players and a 4 man comp SWF team that have been playing the game for years trying their hardest to win. Balancing for the 1 percent of the game would destroy the game, it would require so many changes that it would just change the game into something unrecognizable. Watch ScottJund's video on why you can't balance around the 1 percent in DBD.
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Thing is these guys weren't just any SWF, they're a competitive 4 man SWF playing to win the game. They are extremely rare and shouldn't at all be getting judged on DBD balance. Plus, it doesn't help that Tru is using Wraith, a Killer that heavily relies on a hit and run playstyle which is extremely bad to use against people of this caliber. His build wasn't doing him any favors either, if he used a more competitive build like Rundying + Noed + haunted/retribution on a Killer that doesn't rely on that playstyle then he would've done better.
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The Twins should be bumped up to A tier, their slugging potential is the best in the game and they are even more powerful when you camp the survivors in combination with slugging.
Also with the most recent buff Demo should be bumped up to high A tier, his shred attack absolutely destroys strong loops like long walls, shack, and other loops that would normally be a huge time waster against survivors. There's also the fact that he has pretty decent map mobility which is one of the most important things to have.
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@Mr_K said:
It doesn't take a scroll wheel to teleport fast.
I know that, but even when she was chasing other survivors whenever I would go to destroy a trap she would teleport to it instantaneously. Every time.
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Yeah, no. Pretty sure the developers have openly stated before that using things like discord and whatnot are not cheating. Hell, even their official discord server has voice channels titled "swf"
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Blights J-Flick was fair and balanced, nobody understood the easy counter for it and instead of adapting choose to complain about it.
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It's a better decision then just letting Victor hit you leading to him going on a mass slugging spree.
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@ZtarShot said:
where is the cowboy pls tell me
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JAWP5H9I4WDU/image.png
i wish we had a cowboy *sigh*
A SURVIVOR version of a cowboy. We don't have a survivor from the distant past, only from around the modern age. And we haven't received a futuristic Killer, which is what I was asking for. I know Deathslinger and plague are old.
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From what I've seen you have to flick at least twice in a rush, once before you attack and then one during your attack and when combined will be somewhere in between 120 degree turn and a 180 if you pull it off correctly.
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Because in order to play the Twins effectively you have to slug and camp, and due to this many Twins players, myself included, will have to play in extremely unfun ways in order to get wins. It's wrong for survivors to be extremely toxic in the end game chat but I do understand their hatred and frustration for the Twins, its just not fun being camped then tunneled and slugged repeatedly throughout the match, especially if they're good because Victor becomes even more of a powerhouse.
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Dead Hard, D-Strike, Resilience, and the last one is up to you. Whether you want to run OoO, Spine chill, or something else is up to you.
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It'd be awesome if it was a KYF exclusive game mode but as a public one? It'd be borderline impossible to balance. Imagine going up against a plague + Nurse combo or Legion + Oni. Also Imagine 8 Dead Hards or 8 keys.
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Yup, design wise he is awful. He has almost all the same issues as old legion.
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Blight is pretty fun to play as when your not sliding on stuff, but even then he's still awesome. If you don't mind playing weak Killers then I'd say Trickster is pretty fun to play, it feels satisfying as hell to completely shred a survivor.
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@IWFreak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2231331#Comment_2231331
The only thing that needed a touchup were his charge add-ons. I do like the idea of the Heat mechanic tho.
But I hate that they also had to change his animations and all that.
I do like some of the new add-ons tho. It is pretty fun/scary to see/hear a silent Billy charging at you.
Personally I didn't like the overheat mechanic, it feels like it was poorly implemented. A while back I heard a guy on these forums say that instead of being a purely negative thing overheat should have some kind of reward, maybe like making his chainsaw go faster the closer it is to overheating. It would be pretty cool to see something like this as it would create a high risk high reward system.
Not all of his addons are bad, some are pretty fun or strong but some of them are really awful and deserve to get changed. His animations are awful though and need to get fixed.
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I do just fine as Blight running Shadowborn, BBQ, Pop, and Infectious.
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He needs a rework imo. His power is extremely unhealthy for the game and has almost all the same issues as old legion.
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He used to be fun, balanced, and strong but since his rework unless your already extremely good with him there's no point in trying to get good as Billy. Your better off playing Blight or Oni since they're not only much more stronger but ten times more fun to play as.
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Like the other guy said, stop creating Us vs Them posts. Yeah, its annoying when people to go your profile and accuse you of hacking but guess what? Both sides do that. I've had messages from Killers telling me to kms because I had the audacity to loop them for a long time. Likewise, I've also gotten messages from survivors accusing me of hacks when I find them in a crappy hiding spot.
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@Jarol said:
Myers should leave it in A or B, his tombstone plus Judith's memorial is too powerful.
I guess I should've put him higher on the list, I completely forgot about how busted tombstone piece and J. Myers Memorial is. With that combo he belongs in B+ Tier.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
TWINS? WHAAAAAA-
Yup, I play a lot of them so I know how powerful they can be in the right hands. Their ability to slug and camp is one of if not the best in the game and with addons like wooden sword and the purple addon that makes victor faster they become incredibly powerful. The only reason why I didn't put them in SS tier is because if the survivors are competent and know the counterplay to them then it becomes a much more difficult match for the twins to win, but not impossible.
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@Eninya said:
Hillbilly went from S+ tier to S tier with his nerfs, and people want him buffed back up. lol
At most, he was around Blights level (S) and even then that was assuming the Billy was not only using really powerful addons but an incredibly skilled player. With his nerf it dropped him down to maximum low A tier and at worst low B tier. With overheat being a thing Hillbilly players have to be extremely wary of overheating when mind gaming with their chainsaw at a loop and even then it leaves very little space to make mistakes against good players who know how to run a Billy around. So that means not only do you have to be careful of overheating but you need to play damn near perfectly against a good team.
Also nearly forgot to mention but his hitboxes are also bugged, sometimes when your chainsaw dashing to survivor and they go to a right beside you literally slide right past them.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2229305#Comment_2229305
Curving still works as it did before the nerf. The same goes for traversing the map. You just don't have so much free space for mistakes anymore, that's it.
Your missing the part where the animations got bugged during his rework and never got fixed. One of the buggy animations he has is his transition from charging his chainsaw to sprinting with it, and instead of being smooth before is now incredibly janky. It's an unintentional nerf and one that screws up with the muscle memory of Hillbilly mains that played with him before the nerf.
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@Junylar said:
He has the best mobility around the map and one of the best chasing ability. The problem is, that chasing ability took little to no skill to get full value from. Back-revving was so easy, I could do it with no problem just after 2-3 games with him. He was my favorite killer because of it: strong and easy to learn to a decent point. It basically gives you insta-down on anyone who you found in a dead zone. So the only thing he lost was this easy to learn ability of back-revving, he even can traverse the map as easily as before. If you can't play Billy without cheap tricks like back-revving - you are bad with this killer.
He no longer has the best map mobility, and I'm not sure where you got the idea that he has one of the best chasing abilities in the game because whoever told you that was a rank 20. Against good players Hillbilly back then struggled a bit and now? He gets turned into an M1 Killer for a majority of the chase due to his incredibly lackluster addons and awful power. Back-revving only worked when the survivor was caught out of position or they were simply just bad at the game, and against people who are bad at the game it was much more consistent. This rework was a failure because it punished good hillbilly's who liked to curve around objects and didn't do as much on people who don't know how to play him. His map mobility is still powerful, but his addons are complete garbage and the overheat caused him to lose a massive amount of the anti-loop he used to have.
Back then he was agreed on by most of the community and even the developers of the game to be a strong and skilled yet fair Killer where the better player would usually come out on top in chases. If your finding it that easy to just back rev players every game then that means your in the low ranks getting matched up against bad players.
The reason why anyone would complain about old Hillbilly was because they were either complete noobs at the game or it was about Insta-saw which was indeed dumb. Hillbilly is a noob stomper Killer, so its no surprise as to why most complaints came from the lower skilled players.
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This is my list: