Firellius

@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289716#Comment_3289716
I said perks that are still good and not hindered by comms. Those perks are not good. Anyone with a decent amount of hours on both sides will tell you that.

You didn't.

Isn't everything a solo queue crusher?

If anything is made not to be too strong in solo queue doesn't that end up making it quite weak against swf?

in Stop complaining about Eruption Comment by Firellius December 6, 2022

@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289695#Comment_3289695
Not my standard. Objectively.
You can literally look at the numbers for each perk and calculate their impact compared to the rest.

No, by -your- standard. Pop still works fine. Thanatophobia still works, on the right killer. Coulrophobia still works with the right build. You asked for examples of perks that aren't hindered by comms, I gave you some. Just accept that the answer to the question you posed is not what you wanted to hear.

in Stop complaining about Eruption Comment by Firellius December 6, 2022

@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289630#Comment_3289630
My point is to give me an example of a perk that is good that isn't countered by comms since that's the entire point of what you're wanting. If they aren't good perks then that defeats the point.

Good perks by YOUR standard. But if you're comparing them all to Eruption, you're starting off on the wrong foot.

in Stop complaining about Eruption Comment by Firellius December 6, 2022

@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289608#Comment_3289608
I mean no uses Pop anymore since it's bad, no one uses Coulrophobia since it's bad, no one uses Thanata anymore since it's bad. Bamboozle is the only good one and that is effected by comms because as soon as one survivor sees it he tells the whole team.

But that's not gonna do you any good.

Also, just because you think the perks are bad doesn't mean they don't qualify as perks that aren't countered by comms.

in Stop complaining about Eruption Comment by Firellius December 6, 2022

@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289294#Comment_3289294
Isn't everything a solo queue crusher?
If anything is made not to be too strong in solo queue doesn't that end up making it quite weak against swf?

There's plenty of perks that comms don't affect, like PGTW, Coulrophobia, Thanatophobia, Bamboozle and way more. I'd say the majority of perks are not affected by comms. At the very least, not to the extent that Eruption is.

in Stop complaining about Eruption Comment by Firellius December 6, 2022

@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289168#Comment_3289168
I mean your are right but does it feel good? I would compare it to just pre dropping and holding w it works and is the right call but does it feel good to play?

Considering BHVR gutted Reassurance to ensure camping would remain viable, I think it's safe to say they don't care at all about how things feel to play.

in Survivors and Pallets. The Infinite loop Comment by Firellius December 6, 2022

I think the game needs a slightly different approach.

I think part of the problem with playing Killer is that you're always on the clock. You're always under pressure. This didn't change with the killer buffs, it just duplicated the issue onto the survivor side.

It might be better to address this in gameplay, rather than numerically. My suggestion: Once the first and third gens are completed, all gens lock up, they cannot be repaired or regressed. Glyphs spawn on the map. The survivors need to clear three glyphs total, the killer one.

If the killer clears their glyph, the lock is extended. If the survivors clear their glyphs, the lock is dropped immediately, and hook timers are temporarily slowed.

This adds a bit of variety and gives the killer the opportunity to get some breathing room.

in Gen speed sugestion Comment by Firellius December 6, 2022

@danielmaster87 said:
"3-genning is unbeatable!" until you put 1/3 of a gen's progress on instantly, and that's just one person.

1/5th. The in-built conversion rate clips a third of the progress absorbed.

That, combined with losing charges upon getting hit, means the perk has far more drawbacks than benefits, and there's no reason to bring this perk under any circumstances.

in What's the purpose of Potentional Energy? Comment by Firellius December 6, 2022

@Krazzik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286939#Comment_3286939
I mean if you leave them to bleed out you -are- outplaying their perk.

Not really, since you still don't get the kill.

in PSA Don't blame the killer for slugging you if... Comment by Firellius December 4, 2022

@NekoTorvic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286939#Comment_3286939
It's 15% of your progression for Power Struggle. And yeah, you down the survivor, leave them slugged while you push out the other teammates, then come back for the survivor. It's more than enough time for Power Struggle Flip Flop to trigger. I actually did outplay the survivor that went down. And I'm not about to give them a chance to undo that. How much do you think is "so much of my time"? you can literally trigger that ######### in like 10 seconds or so.

It's 15% of your progression for Power Struggle. And yeah, you down the survivor, leave them slugged while you push out the other teammates, then come back for the survivor. It's more than enough time for Power Struggle Flip Flop to trigger.

That's still two perks, a ton of time, and the investment of other survivors, and it still requires the survivor to go down directly under a pallet. Not to mention that, if someone else is around, you're also at risk of getting pallet stunned as soon as you pick them up, so the perk makes no difference.

I actually did outplay the survivor that went down.

No, dear, you did not. The outcome of a chase is always a down, unless the killer gets really dramatically outplayed. There are no infinites, a survivor getting chased can and will inevitably go down.

And if the survivor managed to go down near able teammates, under a pallet, to plan specifically for the use of this perk, they outplayed you, not the other way around.

in PSA Don't blame the killer for slugging you if... Comment by Firellius December 4, 2022

@NekoTorvic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286844#Comment_3286844
Oh sure. Im entitled because I refuse to allow a jpeg to give survivors a win for free when they could move like 5 feet and let me hook them. No. I downed them, I outplayed them. Im not losing it because of a perk.

It's two perks, and you must've given them a LOT of time to recover, or else Flip-flop doesn't give enough charge to allow Power Struggle to trigger. And even then, they still have to make it out.

If the survivors manage to waste so much of your time that this incredibly garbage perk combo can do its work, you didn't outplay jack.

in PSA Don't blame the killer for slugging you if... Comment by Firellius December 4, 2022

@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286198#Comment_3286198
Back when Enduring still affected the DS stun, the devs promised that the stun timer would be reduced back down to 3 seconds, should they removed Enduring's ability to affect it. That is because DS only ever became 5 seconds in the first place because of that interaction. It took them years after nerfing Enduring's secondary effect to finally fulfill that promise.
5 seconds of DS with no means to mitigate it is too long.

It's been 5 seconds with no means of mitigating it for the longest time and it wasn't a problem because it is the most avoidable perk in the game. A competent killer player will get hit with it ONCE and never again. The full control of this perk is in the killer's hands.

The only thing it needed was post 5th gen deactivation, that was the only thing that was still unfair to the killer. It honestly could've traded that off with a BUFF to stun time and it'd still be one of the fairest perks in the game. Uniquely, DS is really, really well focused on its one and only job: To temper how incredibly over-efficient tunnelling is.

With that said:

@ChipaChip said:
Decisive Strike:
After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike activates for the next 40/50/60 seconds:
( change) -When the Killer grabs or picks it up, during any time the Assassin is carrying it, press the skill button to trigger a skill test, if you hit the Killer will drop you and be stunned for 3 seconds.
This change is to be able to use it when the Killer passes near a pale or a window, in order to take advantage of the stun.

This is not a permissible change, as it could mean that the survivor can hold off on triggering DS until the killer has wasted enough time reaching a hook, thereby -massively- expanding the time cost of DS.

Just put the stun time to 7 seconds and make it work off both unhooks. Done.

@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286192#Comment_3286192
The problem is the 3 seconds starts before you can start to run, so it is probably rather 2-2.5 seconds than 3... And those 10 s only apply if the killer does not have anything to catch you before: Demogorgons Shred, Nemesis Tentacle, Huntress Hatchet, Nurses Blink, Blights Rush and so on... Sure against an M1 Killer it is still ok but you need to keep in mind that the perk can only be used once Head on has the same stun duration as DS and can be used as often as you want. I just don't think once 3 seconds is adaquate.

The problem is the 3 seconds starts before you can start to run, so it is probably rather 2-2.5 seconds than 3...

IIRC, the landing animation is a little over a second long, so the effective time gain for the survivor went from... I think it was 3.8 seconds to 1.8. It was an extremely egregious nerf.

in Small idea to buff Decisive Strike Comment by Firellius December 4, 2022

This is why, before the change went through, I said I'd prefer DS to be the basekit perk, not BT.

in I hate bodyblocking with base kit BT Comment by Firellius December 4, 2022

@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285605#Comment_3285605
Its always the problems of this game, since old DS to DH, BT, OTR. They punish fair play killers more than tunnelers IF survivors exploit the 2nd chance perks' protections

If you got hit by DS after the conspic-action nerf, it was entirely on you. DS was honestly in a pretty good spot before the stun time nerf, with the one problem being the no-win situation in EGC.

DS should go back to a longer stun, and activate off both unhooks. OTR should be changed to X seconds of 'no scratch marks, no sound, no blood trail' after being unhooked to become an information denial perk rather than just competing directly with DS.

in Hard to have fun anymore without anti-tunneling perks Comment by Firellius December 3, 2022

@danielmaster87 said:
People complain about gen defence and tunneling because they want the killer to play in a way that lets them win. An argument that's been going around a long time is that, "Killers are tunneling because they don't know how to chase." It's wrong, because most people who do tunnel only arrived at the conclusion that they need to play like that because playing for random chases just wasn't working... like ever. At this point though, new killers don't even have room to go for multiple chases to come to that conclusion. They just see the gens go in 5 minutes and frantically look up ways to win more, they find this thing called 'tunneling', and they do it. Now those are the ones who don't know how to chase. But that archetype of killer player existed in only limited quantities years ago. It's commonplace for learning players to play like that nowadays, because usually it would be fine for them to take the advice of, "You're gonna lose a lot at the beginning, but you'll get better." but not in this game, because you lose significantly more as a learner killer, not because your opponents are super good and you're super bad, but because you're both decent. In this game, if you and the survivors are on the same level, they should* always beat you, because the gens go too fast and your time to down is too long. The only exception to this is at the very bottom where survivors think good things will come of hiding all match, meanwhile the killer's actually playing. The math adds up to that result. You don't have time to kill the survivors with 30s+ chases because of strong loops, while they complete gens solo in 90 seconds and even faster in teams.

It's wrong, because most people who do tunnel only arrived at the conclusion that they need to play like that because playing for random chases just wasn't working... like ever.

The problem is that with SBMM, the usage of low effort, high reward strategies like tunnelling and camping also creates this exact problem. If you're getting a lot of kills that you couldn't have gotten if you 12-hooked, then you're going to end up playing above your skill bracket. And when you're above your skill bracket, you can't 12-hook anymore.

"So buff the killer!"

But if you don't nerf camping and tunnelling, all you do is lift this lopsided construction a little higher on the ladder while retaining the same exact problem. The people who crutch on camping and tunnelling will continue to be placed above their skill bracket and complain that they can't win without their crutch.

It'd be the same if a survivor were to be against BNP nerfs (Or preferably, removal) because 'at my skill rank, you can't win without BNPs!'.

in If chases are supposedly the most interactive element in the game…. Comment by Firellius December 3, 2022

@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3273958#Comment_3273958
You're complaining about a Survivor tanking a hit off the hook then jumping into a locker WHILE HAVING THE ENDURANCE EFFECT to head on you?
They'll literally fall out of the locker, you can't be serious.

To be fair, it also took me a moment to realise they'd just... Bleed out.

in Why do survivors lose exhaustion when hooked? Comment by Firellius November 24, 2022

@Jay_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271305#Comment_3271305
oh don't get me wrong im not saying exhaustion should come back if they are downed. i'm very glad it doesnt due to the exact example you gave. but equally i don't think it should come back off the hook. I'm not going to go into the tunneling debate on this post (ive had the debate to many times and bottom line survivors need to get over it. u get tunneled let go and go next) but now there is base kit BT which comes with a speed boost not to mention the massive rework of OTR. do survivors really need there exhaustion back right off hook.
One big issue i have come across recently is the groups of head on squads that kinda abuse this mechanic. they get off hook. hop in locker, head on stun, back in locker, DS, back in locker, flashlight saved out of locker.
Thankfully that last bit is being addressed and i think the flashlight change to locker saves is incredible but the fact that a survivor can instantly be unhooked in your face and have a free out with either sprint burst or overcome is a bit over the top. At that point its not killer tunneling its survivor enduced tunneling.

I'm not going to go into the tunneling debate on this post (ive had the debate to many times and bottom line survivors need to get over it. u get tunneled let go and go next) but now there is base kit BT which comes with a speed boost not to mention the massive rework of OTR. do survivors really need there exhaustion back right off hook.

You wanna tell survivors to 'get over it' in regards to tunnelling, be prepared for everyone else to tell you to 'get over it' that you can't hard-tunnel someone off hook as easily if they have an exhaustion perk.

Did i say i want an easy way to tunnel someone???

Yes. You did.

Because the only way that exhaustion recovery upon getting hooked can be a problem to you is if you are hardcore tunnelling. So asking for it to be removed directly translates to asking for tunnelling to be easier.

in Why do survivors lose exhaustion when hooked? Comment by Firellius November 23, 2022

@RainehDaze said:
CoH is a weird one because its effect, whilst the only boon that rewards showing up nowhere near the Killer (and thus can be put down in safety), isn't too extreme except for hit and run, it's still common enough that it makes hex perks dead in the water.
Like, as long as CoH is good enough to see regular use, it makes an entire class of Killer perks even more useless by proxy

How does it do that exactly? CoH doesn't do anything to Hexes, does it?

That said, if CoH were to get nerfed again, I think it should be a shake-up to overall Boon functionality. There's a lot of untapped design space in how boons work and I think the devs should open that up. I'll reiterate my idea: Each boon perk should have its own Boon parameters (IE: Bless speed, aura radius, CD if it gets taken down) and having multiple boon perks means ALL of them take the worst parameter in each category.

This means weaker boons can have bigger radii, more situational ones can be quicker to deploy, stronger ones can have longer downtimes, etc. I think that's a good way to nerf CoH too: Reduce the radius, maybe slow bless speed by ~25%, and add a 60/50/40 second downtime if it get snuffed.

in COH and Dead hard still being issiues. Your thoughts? Comment by Firellius November 22, 2022

Felix and... was it Elodie? Anyway, those two were part of a group of five friends who met through their parents' activities as part of a society fighting the entity.

Everything about that. Other members of the Pariahs, other members of their parents' society.

in What characters do you want more lore for? minor characters included. Comment by Firellius November 5, 2022

Autodidact is a really fun perk, but there's practically zero chance of it ever being beneficial to the player. It needs a safeguard against just -not- getting any skillchecks.

in perks that need reworked or buffed Comment by Firellius November 5, 2022

@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3247683#Comment_3247683
"In the killer's control"? So let's say I don't tunnel, which you have to do to play catch-up. I just lose? Why would I even assume that they have DS anyway since everyone says, "OMG it's such a bad perk now." because they can't push gens while also claiming anti-tunnel. What if they're body blocking with it or flashlight save with it? They're still apparently getting tunneled? There's loads to complain about.

So you went back to hook when the unhook happened, dove back on the target that was just unhooked, chased them down, downed them, then picked them up, and you're mad that the survivor perk that exists purely and solely for that very specific situation is punishing you for completing that five-step plan required to get the perk to activate.

You faceplant into a DS -that- hard, you deserve a 10 second stun, let alone a five second one. And, contrary to your earlier statement, it isn't 'free'. It costs a hook state to use, remember?

If they try to bodyblock or flashlight save with it, just smack them down and continue on your way. They lose more time crawling on the ground than you do landing one (1) free hit.

in What do you think of my ds change idea? Comment by Firellius October 29, 2022

@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233721#Comment_3233721
Same stuff, other name.
If you want to use your safety card aggressively to deny me potential progress instead of using it to save yourself, just to get use out of it, then don't blame me for the consequences of your decision.
The killer doesn't have to respect survivor that want to get use out of their safety perks at all costs plus the benefit of protecting others with it.
You don't get to bake your cake AND eat it. Either use it for your own safety or accept the consequences, no matter which perk it is.

That's my point: With DS, the survivor puts himself and his team at a greater disadvantage than with BT. A DS bodyblock is super risky and will leave you slugged out, with BT, you just get a chase like normal, putting more pressure on the killer.

DS, IMO, was always the fairer anti-tunnel perk.

in I tunnel in more then 80% of my matches Comment by Firellius October 18, 2022

@Config said:
Hi, I'm a killer main with 2700 hours in the game, i consider myself really good at playing killer, and mediocre at survivor, when I play survivor I fell that being camped is unfun, and tunneld at 4-5 gens to me seems super unfair, but when I'm playing killer it seems unlogical to not tunnel, most of the times when the guy gets unhooked he tries to take a protection hit, and I mean it happens in 90% of my matches, i don't mind chasing the guy who took the hit, his 1 hit down and even if he has DS it's not that impactful. If u are playing survivor and don't want to get tunneld DON'T take a bt hit. It's literally better for the killer to chase u again. In comp people often run even for the people to discourage tunell, i would have someone dead faster by chasing you, it's just not fun (as killer or survivor) to chase or being chased the same survivor twice. Often times it's not because I want to tunnel someone I fell forced. And if there's 3-2 gens left and no one is dead I would definitely tunnel someone out. Either to get pressure by body blocks or to get into a 3v1 with is A LOT better for me.
In my opinion killers should be rewarded for not tunneling, instead of punishing tunneling. If u make so hooking multiple people makes the game slower in some way it would discourage tunelling tremendously. Tunell is often times not malicious it's literally the best option.
My changes: survivor how suffer from the endurance status effect get their collision disabled (this DOES NOT affect dead hard) for the duration of the endurance. Upon vaulting a window/pallet they gain their collision back for 3 seconds (so no one couldn't abuse window tech). If the killer hook a different survivor the killer gain some kind of buff, that could be gens slower, faster cooldowns, anything that could encourage a healthier gameplay.

"If u are playing survivor and don't want to get tunneld DON'T take a bt hit."

This is why I wanted baseline DS instead of baseline BT.

in I tunnel in more then 80% of my matches Comment by Firellius October 18, 2022

@Xernoton said:
They tried that in the past and designed it strictly in the survivor's favor. It was the most horrible experience you can imagine. Survivors were screaming and killers even got the splatter effect but they were always getting validated. Very frustrating. Over time they tried to balance it out a bit more. I'm not sure there is an easy solution to the problem since it's completely dependent on latency which can never be removed entirely.

That's not correct. It used to be resolved purely in the killer's favour, now it's the server's discretion. What you're referring to is false feedback due to killer lag.

in Why is getting hit through a pallet still a thing? Comment by Firellius October 12, 2022

@CheesyBabyBoi said:
Its hard ensuring a perk has a large enough value when used by an individual, but not exponentially more value when used four times over. Decisive strike was rough way back when, but it was fair. Bringing it back wouldn't be inappropriate.

The thing about DS's value is that it is entirely in the killer's control, especially with the EGC nerf. So even if it is individually powerful, having four of them doesn't change much.

The killer would have to play really, really poorly to trigger more than one DS per match.

in Please un-nerf Decisive Strike (and slightly buff Ruin!) Comment by Firellius October 10, 2022

@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220743#Comment_3220743
Sounds like the VGS voice command system other Hi-Rez games has. Actually a pretty robust system once you learn the shortcuts, I still have the commands for stuff like "Group up!" and "Ultimate is ready!" etched into my muscle memory from playing Paladins.
Of course people will troll with it, but that's the case for every possible communication system you have to use with strangers. At least it would help in the matches where everyone genuine wants to play as a team but lack the information to do so.

I think they first developed it with Tribes Ascend and then implemented it in their other games. Smite had the most expansive one I think, and that's the game I played the longest, so that's what my mind went to.

The voicelines themselves were also awesome with the right characters and voice packs. Made a smite guild with the tag [VEW], named 'The Woohooligans'.

Now that guild is in Dota2, but the [VEW] tag was taken. The response was to go with [VVGT].

in Solo Q Being To Weak Isn't The Issue Comment by Firellius October 7, 2022

@WeenieDog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219921#Comment_3219921
The problem of vc is not everyone speaks the same language ( like the EU region) and even if they do, may not be willing to speak at all.
A ping system would be a lot better. Pre-translated and automatically contextualized.

SMITE developed a really good system with V-tags. Pressing V would just instantly open a menu whose keys stay out of the way of regular gameplay. So for example, you could call out that someone's missing from right lane with V (Opens V-tag menu), F (Which meant Missing), 3 (Which means right lane). The game would then fire off a voiceline to the rest of the team saying 'Enemy missing right lane'.

Something similar for DBD could work.

in Solo Q Being To Weak Isn't The Issue Comment by Firellius October 7, 2022

@MeanieDeeny said:
I don’t understand why most people can’t see the correlation between gen rushing and face camping?
SWF’s load up with perks to bust out gens, bring map offerings and coordinate everything. It’s 4 v. 1. You’re not winning (if you win) because you’re skilled, you’re winning because you’re in constant communication w each other.
I am a Trapper main (and honestly I do quite well, but I constantly face tough SWF teams), yesterday I had a team bring me to Ormond. Okay I’ll make the best of it…game starts, I set down a trap..walk a short distance, put down another trap..a gen pops ALREADY. Start first chase, gen pops, down survivor, gen pops…hook survivor, gen pops…I don’t know how it’s possible..but that’s 4 gens in mere minutes. There’s 1 gen left…the game just started, why am I not going to camp the person I just hooked? 1 gen left. Game is already over. I ended up w a 3k, but it’s irrelevant. Still lost a pip. Had zero fun.
At 5 gens, camping and tunneling is completely ridiculous. Yes. But being gen rushed and camping/tunneling go hand in hand. Expecting to gen rush and have the killer give everyone their three hooks each, is highly unrealistic.

"Game is already over. I ended up w a 3k, but it’s irrelevant."

At some point, the goalpost moved from 'I just want a fair shot at 3k+' to 'Yeah, I got my 3k+, but it was hard, and that's unfair'.

in Gen rushing = Camping/tunneling Comment by Firellius October 5, 2022

@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214464#Comment_3214464
He can't get you if you predrop. The loop is too long, except maybe with purple speed add-on and Toy Sword. And I'm not saying she didn't make mistakes, but unless you want to make an equation that determines what quantity of mistakes makes a killer good or bad, I'm not sure where you're going with that.
The argument isn't that we make no mistakes. It's that we make mistakes, within reason, as humans do, and lose the whole game off it, even when EACH of the survivors has made the same amount or more mistakes. Most of the time the killer wins, yes it's the survivors letting them, either through being inefficient or making dumb decision they didn't need to make. Most of the time killer loses, it was out of their control, whether they lost by making 15 mistakes or by making 1 mistake.
There does exist a middle ground, where the game could go either way all the way through, but you hardly ever see it because it takes so much just to even the playing field for the killer. I feel like if we were to make Agitation, Unrelenting, Enduring, and Brutal Strength base, it might make it close. Watcha gonna do with Wraith, Freddy, or Pig against survivors that know what they're doing? You can barely hit them, because those killers have no anti-loop, leaving it up to the survivors to make the mistake. If they don't, you get nothing. When you do finally manage to hit them, it doesn't mean anything because they're not downed, can still loop, and can heal up very quick with a probable CoH if you don't commit. That's why experienced killers commit to bad chases nowadays, because it's a sunk cost fallacy where abandonment is just as bad if not worse than committing more. You're saying that the killer probably sucks when they need to tunnel and camp to win, but I've yet to see a match where the killer and survivors were both really good, and the killer won through just blind chases.

He can't get you if you predrop.

It's. In. The. Video!

The argument isn't that we make no mistakes. It's that we make mistakes, within reason, as humans do, and lose the whole game off it, even when EACH of the survivors has made the same amount or more mistakes. Most of the time the killer wins, yes it's the survivors letting them, either through being inefficient or making dumb decision they didn't need to make. Most of the time killer loses, it was out of their control, whether they lost by making 15 mistakes or by making 1 mistake.

Source: "Just trust me, bro!"

in Anyone try playing Twins on PTB? I imagine it is horrible. Comment by Firellius October 1, 2022

@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214464#Comment_3214464
She missed her first pounce on Jane at 48 seconds. This is what I'm talking about.\
that is another mindgame with twins and victor. she was expecting the survivor to drop the pallet. that is why she preemptively charged. its risky for victor to go under a pallet because people will often run forward to make you believe they're going for another loop, but then back-up and pallet stun victor which will kill victor. that missed pounce is another mistake by survivor because you can predict victor trajectory as he misses. it gives opportunity to kick him if you understand where he will land.
Victor goes on cooldown and then Charlotte has to summon him back, you have to run all the way back to Claudette position to continue the chase with victor if the survivor successfully kicks him.
its weird that I am understanding this gameplay because I do not even play twins. I guess its just because I understand the survivor gameplay towards playing vs twins.
Danielmaster says Victor can't get to you if you pre-drop a pallet.
He is correct. certain pallets are infinities when dropped vs victor. Some windows can be strong against victor because victor does not count towards being in the chase. This means that windows do not have entity blockers. you can infinity vault them. Dead dog saloon has those top balcony windows that might be really strong vs victor if you let him walk up to you then vault the window last second.
The sweet spot for twins to pounce with victor is around 2-3 meters. You have to utilize victor slow charge time+slow movement speed to move away from victor. you want to shift-w for first second of his charge time then wiggle in unpredictable manner while still running forward. it makes it hard for twins player to hit you with victor. If you run away from victor, like 5-6 meters, twin player will likely cancel the pounce and will try to walk up to you with victor pointblank where gameplay loop repeats. Its very risky for twin player to go for long-range pounces if the survivor is wiggling in unpredictable fashion from far away. This gameplay loop right here is why Twins players all use Toysword because it reduces victor's charge time and shorten the m/s penalty to run away from victor so its easier to land point-blank pounces that are guaranteed to hit if the survivor does not understand the gameplay.
this is the approach you have to take to try to juke victor out in the open. Bare in mind that counter-play for victor out in the open is not 100% full proof strategy. its relies on your survivor movement being tricky to read in combination of the twins not reading your movement. Nobody was doing that in the video. everyone was just trying face-tank victor. its super easy for skilled twin player to hit pointblank victor pounces.
she's got a high winrate despite playing really poorly.
She is got high winrate from survivors not understanding her gameplay. the killer downing the survivor repeatedly is not killer playing bad. she explains her thought process during gameplay for how she is does not have time to kick boon or pick up the survivors in time to hook them while using victor at the same time. 4 minute bleed out timers with no penalty to pick yourself up really does not work. It makes slugging obsolete and punishes the killer for downing the survivor. Twins does not do too well vs SWF for that reason. Its too difficult to slug when 4 people are alive and hooking for twins is not time efficient if twins wants to use victor for anything more than a radar.
That game only ended because the survivor played so badly to the point... that even with all the second chances from unbreakable, they still died from bleed out. with better survivor player, it is not practical for the killer to kill through bleed out with current system with how many times survivors are able to pick themselves up.

that is another mindgame with twins and victor. she was expecting the survivor to drop the pallet. that is why she preemptively charged. its risky for victor to go under a pallet because people will often run forward to make you believe they're going for another loop, but then back-up and pallet stun victor which will kill victor. that missed pounce is another mistake by survivor because you can predict victor trajectory as he misses. it gives opportunity to kick him if you understand where he will land.

Did she or did she not miss that pounce?

He is correct.

Literally in the video, it is proven that he isn't correct. Survivor drops the pallet and Victor jumps over it to down them. He is literally proven incorrect.

She is got high winrate from survivors not understanding her gameplay.

How do you know how survivors played in her previous matches from this video?

the killer downing the survivor repeatedly is not killer playing bad.

It is if she consistently refuses to hook to solidify her advantage. She keeps greeding for the 4-slug.

It makes slugging obsolete and punishes the killer for downing the survivor.

Oh yes, a 4K with no gens getting touched. Very punished!

But this is exactly what I'm talking about. She repeatedly makes mistakes up and down the shop, but there's a five page essay on how the game's supposedly unfair to her, including factually wrong statements like 'she didn't miss a pounce until 4 minutes in' or 'If you pre-drop a pallet, Victor can't get to you', both are observably wrong as evidenced by the video we're talking about.

It's total and complete absolution of any flaws, in complete contrast to reality, paired up with a '4K isn't enough' mentality. It's the same thing that drives both '63% kill rate isn't high enough' chatter and the constant discrediting of that figure too, because no, the 63% kill rate is a meaningless figure and we should stick to the dogmatic belief that killers are super oppressed. Source: 'Just trust me, bro!'

in Anyone try playing Twins on PTB? I imagine it is horrible. Comment by Firellius October 1, 2022

@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213571#Comment_3213571
she is getting tremendous pressure because the survivor is not juking/playing properly vs victor. she misses like 1 victor pounce before survivor finally kicks victor at 4:14. that is first time that she messes up a pounce. to give an idea for how bad survivor is playing, when victor downs a survivor, he suffers 5 second which lasts forever and you can kick victor during this time.
the equivalent gameplay for survivor would be killer getting 1 hook in 5 generators. The game realizing the killer did very poorly. As a result, the survivors get to do 2 extra generators, just to extend the game.
this highlight twin's problem vs swf because the strategy behind playing against twins is playing in pairs and splitting up. Charlotte is immobile and victor is mobile but the further he is away from Charlotte, the less Charlotte can capitalize on her downs because of large distance between victor and charlotte. people split up, work in pairs, if victor misses, they kick him, if he does not miss but downs the survivor, you begin healing survivor, after 4.5 second, you kick victor, then you continue healing and by the time charlotte tries to pick up the slug from 30+ meter walking distance, the survivor is already picked up. if victor hits a healthy survivor, you keep him hostage because it turns Charlotte into m1 killer with deadweight time where she cannot use her ability to down survivors and 2 of the other survivor can work on gens while one person is looping m1 Charlotte.
what unbreakable does is remove the need for teamwork and puts the problem in larger spotlight where solo turns into swf towards slugging. you no longer need teamwork to counter slugging and second chances become free. The killer is not getting rewarded for their downs similar to how it works vs swf. so when dev said, The twins are overperforming, its like... looking at the video. it is not hard to see why. solo survivor are playing really poorly against twins while the stronger swf's are able to defeat twins by outplaying victor and using twin's weakness in slugging against them.

she misses like 1 victor pounce before survivor finally kicks victor at 4:14. that is first time that she messes up a pounce.

She missed her first pounce on Jane at 48 seconds. This is what I'm talking about.

She says she hasn't made any mistake. Danielmaster says Victor can't get to you if you pre-drop a pallet. You say she hasn't missed any pounces until 4 minutes in.

In reality, she's already like four mistakes in the hole in the first minute of the video. But killer skill is adamantly kept out of any equation. People will consistently refuse to acknowledge that sometimes, it's the killer's fault. It's the problem with the paradigm on these forums: Killer wins? Survivors bad. Survivors win? Game is unfair, QQ, nerf survivors.

Keep in mind that she's playing this poorly and, as she says at the start, she's still won 'the last few'. So she's got a high winrate despite playing really poorly. AND YET, she's decrying the changes as being unfair to her, because 'I didn't make any mistakes!'.

Same goes for the barrage of 'I only camp and tunnel because it's literally impossible to win otherwise!'. Sometimes it's none of that, and the killer just sucks. Deal with it.

@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213576#Comment_3213576
So I have to bring a perk to make up for bad game mechanics?

Welcome to survivor gameplay the past four years.

@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214067#Comment_3214067
Yeah, survivors always say that.

No, survivors hardly ever get to say that because they'll be shouted down by 'top MMR killer players' who 'made no mistakes'.

in Anyone try playing Twins on PTB? I imagine it is horrible. Comment by Firellius October 1, 2022

@WorthlessBeing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213520#Comment_3213520
Only if the map is the Ashtray Maze with the corresponding theme, and the Survivor is Emily.

Oldest House would do it for me, with Jesse Faden.

Or Fra Mauro!

'Spider time!' has probably never been more appropriate.

in What licenses do you NOT want in the game? Comment by Firellius September 30, 2022

@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213517#Comment_3213517
she is downing the survivors.... the twins are often forced into actively playing into the unbreakable effect. against these survivor, it does not matter, but against the better survivors, those unbreakables are going to hurt twins a lot. this is why twins has like 1% player-rate and why she is not popular. there is nothing with twins itself in term of the gameplay but the balance of slugging is somewhat unfair for the killer. the survivor has to mess up too much.

And? She still gets tremendous pressure, she just doesn't get to close the match in under two minutes from a 4-slug. That's the literal only disadvantage she suffers here: She has to actually play the match. And that's with her messing up over and over and over and over and not just going for hooks instead of the 4-slug.

in Anyone try playing Twins on PTB? I imagine it is horrible. Comment by Firellius September 30, 2022

Control. Because then I'd have to give BHVR money.

in What licenses do you NOT want in the game? Comment by Firellius September 30, 2022

@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212890#Comment_3212890
No one touched generators because they're literally playing as bad as possible while getting unlimited second chances until they finally bleed out. why should match be prolonged when the survivor is playing as bad as possible? She's not making any mistakes but she is getting punished by their anti-slug system. unlimited unbreakable with no limitations/drawback is unhealthy. The video is highlighting the problem of having no limits to being pick up, both via teammates and the unlimited breakable. it takes forever to die and it takes forever for survivor to get punished for poor play.

It takes forever because the killer is actively playing into the unlimited unbreakable to maximise its effect. She's literally stringing together a chain of colossal misplays, playing to the worst available tactic, and she still gets a landslide win.

You want to talk about getting punished for poor play, talk about hers.

in Anyone try playing Twins on PTB? I imagine it is horrible. Comment by Firellius September 30, 2022

@BenOfMilam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213389#Comment_3213389
The point is that the survivors can throw the game and it still drags out for 10 or so minutes. They deliberately CHOSE not to work on gens, since their teammates have infinite picksies upsies.
If even one of the survivors was hard committing to gens, it would have been a three or four man out. Instead, the survivors were just having fun with a troll match and vibing out. I seriously doubt any of those players were planning on escaping.
It barely mattered because if the survivors were trying to escape instead of trying to troll and be silly, the killer in the video would have genuinely been unable to really do much of anything. She down each survivor like what, 5 times? 10 times? The Twins are the only killer in the game that can have that much pressure, but still only hang onto the game by a thread the entire time.
I love the Twins, but Lord are they miserable to play at times.
Playing a video game should not be a constantly miserable and hyper-stressful uphill battle, which is what the 6.1.0 update tried to do for killer.

She down each survivor like what, 5 times? 10 times? The Twins are the only killer in the game that can have that much pressure, but still only hang onto the game by a thread the entire time.

You've been watching an entirely different video if you think that! She was greeding REALLY hard and she constantly had the entire match under control. This was super easy mode for her and you and her are complaining about 'well if the survivors played better', while never once addressing that she played like trash herself. She's constantly making huge mistakes and getting upset over not getting the win thrown in her lap.

The game wasn't 'hanging by a thread' at all. It was squarely in her corner the entire match. She was just getting pissed off that she couldn't get the four man slug win and skip 8 hook states. She got her win, and she would've gotten it a hell of a lot faster if she wasn't so damn greedy, but that goes over her head and yours.

Playing a video game should not be a constantly miserable and hyper-stressful uphill battle

What do you think this match is like for the survivors? What do you think slug-based plays are like for survivors, especially against twins?

Stop whinging that you can't slug-win anymore after the update specifically meant to discourage slug-wins. This is like those people that go 'anti-camp measures are fine, but only if they don't impede my ability to camp'. She specifically played to maximise the value of the anti-slug changes and she STILL consistently wins as twins.

in Anyone try playing Twins on PTB? I imagine it is horrible. Comment by Firellius September 30, 2022

@almofan1001 said:
Why do survivors insist on saying that camping and tunneling is "0 skill" "braindead" "bot"?
As far as I can see, it's infinitely times more skillful than holding M1 on a generator and talking to your Twitch chat in background while checking your monitor every 10-15 seconds for a skill check. You don't even need to watch out for killer most of the time as terror radius gives you an indication when you actually need to start paying attention. Hitting good skill checks can be mastered after 10 minutes of the gameplay time. That's all the attention span and skill it takes to do your objective while the reward is immense.
At least when you tunnel you need to end the chase fast. You take a big risk and if you fail, you get punished heavily by basically losing the game on the spot. A sole survivor literally gets a chance to win a game for their team on their own. A successful tunnel is much more skilful activity than holding a button on a generator.
When you camp, you need to constantly look for other survivors, don't hit the wrong person, time your M1 to grab, avoid body blocks, and make sure to watch all angles so you don't miss anyone coming for rescue. It's at least 5x more actions for a killer to do (successfully) in order to gain benefit from it.
So please, survivors, when you complain about no-skill gameplay, have a bit of self-reflection. Your objective (generators) is literally the lowest risk, lowest skill and highest reward in the game to exist on both sides.

So please, survivors, when you complain about no-skill gameplay, have a bit of self-reflection. Your objective (generators) is literally the lowest risk, lowest skill and highest reward in the game to exist on both sides.

The only reason I'm sitting at a gen with easy mode M1 gameplay is because you're stuck under hook or deliberately ignoring me to go for someone else.

It's YOUR fault my gameplay is zero skill. That's one of the reasons people are so opposed to camping and tunnelling.

in Camping and Tunneling is actually skillful Comment by Firellius September 30, 2022

@BenOfMilam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212890#Comment_3212890
if the survivors all group up and commit mass suicide by Victor and it STILL takes forever to win, I'm sure you can understand why she'd be frustrated.
Watching your enemy make every possible blunder and have it barely matter since they can just smash the undo button is truly an agonizing experience,

Did any of them get any chance to work on any gen, anywhere in the match?

How does it 'barely matter'? I'd like to remind you that she's got the entire match locked down really early, and has insane pressure and control. But apparently that's not good enough and killer now need not just the 4K, but they need the 4K in under 2 minutes.

in Anyone try playing Twins on PTB? I imagine it is horrible. Comment by Firellius September 30, 2022

@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212992#Comment_3212992
Why'd they let him do that? Considering the first down was gained purely by Charlotte, these survivors weren't great.

Sure, move those goalposts, buddy!

'These survivors are playing bad!'

Yeah, well so is the killer, but you don't look at that, everyone rarely discusses that, and the player herself actively denies her mistakes.

It's always the survivors', or the game's fault, because every killer is a 'top MMR' machine of mechanical and tactical perfection.

in Anyone try playing Twins on PTB? I imagine it is horrible. Comment by Firellius September 30, 2022

@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212873#Comment_3212873
Which they aren't. Pre-drop a pallet, and Victor can't get you. If he's about to, jump in a locker and break out before Charlotte comes back. If he attaches to you, hold him hostage. If he misses, very easy with the inconsistent hitbox, free kick. If Charlotte's chasing you, she's an M1 killer. If you've got CoH, you win.
If you're talking about hooks simply being close when they down someone, sure they can get that hook. But Twins takes too long to down with Victor, switch back, walk all the way over, pick up, walk to hook, hook, get far enough away from hook to use Victor (if he hasn't been killed by then), and THEN you can get back to chasing with Victor. It's not feasible going for hooks with them. You can't count on survivors being bad and say that's why the killer is fine.

Pre-drop a pallet, and Victor can't get you.

Victor jumps over a dropped pallet to get the survivor in the very video posted in this thread.