What do you think of my ds change idea?
What if instead of being 3 seconds it went back to 5 but couldn't be used in a locker? That would mean that it no longer would have no effective counterplay so it probably wouldn't be as meta as before.
Having two uses and 3 sec stun without locker grab would also be reasonable
Comments
5 seconds is too long, to where even bad survivors made it oppressive. Now, all you get is a stun and a chance to get to a loop, not a free 20 seconds of distance. But DS from lockers should still be removed.
No. It should either be longer or have locker as an option
I would take this as a nice trade off.
But keep it off in the end game of course.
3 seconds againts like half the killers is pretty bad and againts like 1/3 of killers pretty much a joke perk.
I think it's fine against killer that don't have crazy mobility/have limited mobility powers as is
You seriously want DS nerfed even further?
DS is only oppressive if you're tunneling people. It's one of the easiest perks in the game to avoid because survivors using it offensively are usually obvious as hell and hand themselves over as free slugs.
It is indeed quite bad compared to OTR. I think making otr 60 sec and buffing ds would honestly be wonderful for the game
So you jump in a locker for A) a guaranteed stun or B) a free getaway. And there's no problem with that?
Three second stun is pathetic. OTR works twice and gives much more distance and time for the team. So yeah I'd say I have no issues with that as long as it's three seconds
How can a Perk be oppressive when it is totally in the Killers control if the Survivors get to use it or not? You can just go for a different Survivor. If you pick someone up who just got unhooked, this is on you. Since DS is deactivated by everything (including Endgame), there is not really anything to complain about it anymore.
Yes. Forced locker DS is a problem overshadowed purely because of the nerf.
Y'all's survivors must just let you slug someone for like 60 seconds and not pick up their teammate, the way y'all describe it. Must be nice.
Like I said, it's easily enough time to get to a nearby loop. If you're not near one when you go down, what on earth were you doing there? Running to nothing?
In an ordinary situation, having such an option would be OP, but with DS, this is because you are tunneling the survivor off the hook. I am willing to give far more leeway in this situation. It is quite fair for survivors to have tools that make tunneling them inconvenient.
Sure, people pick the survivor up. They get off gens to do it and I can proxy the body to smack it or the rescuer back down. It's pressure either way. I don't care.
Maybe I'm just not cutthroat enough, but I honestly couldn't care less if you have to jump through some irritating hoops in order to delete a survivor at 4 gens left. The survivor is a lot more annoyed than you are, I'm sure.
I honestly dont like it. I think 3 seconds is fine but locker DS can stay as is, if someones being tunnelled you should either wait it out or eat it. Plus 5 seconds is too oppressive for M1 killers with no mobility.
DS is still godly against every killer aside from spirit and nurse. I think its fine as is.
"In the killer's control"? So let's say I don't tunnel, which you have to do to play catch-up. I just lose? Why would I even assume that they have DS anyway since everyone says, "OMG it's such a bad perk now." because they can't push gens while also claiming anti-tunnel. What if they're body blocking with it or flashlight save with it? They're still apparently getting tunneled? There's loads to complain about.
I want the locker DS removed AND take it to 2 seconds.
I only want just enough time to give the killer 2 'bags before I immediately go down again.
Survivors can also use DS against killers who aren't tunneling. The nerf did not change this. They can still body block and flashlight save and keep their DS.
You're giving up more pressure than you're generating by 'simply' proxy camping the downed person. Unless you're survivors all get off gens to get this 1 person.
The way you talk about tunneling, "deleting" a survivor (allegedly at 4 gens even though we know that's unlikely), makes me think you either go against beyond chill survivors or just don't play killer that much.
I mean, if they are bodyblocking with DS, you are still not forced to pick them up. Same when they go into a Locker. Or have I missed the Patchnotes were DS now forces the Killer to pick up Survivors?
And yes, you are right - Killers dont have to care for DS anymore. Most Survivors dont run it because it is a wasted Perkslot. It was always a Perk which was useless against the stronger Killers, now it is also useless against weak Killers. And even if someone is dumb enough to still play with DS, you will catch up immediatly, since DS grants you a whopping distance of 7 meters. Yay.
But at least dont pretend that you are forced to do anything.
Yeah, I see plenty of that. It's easy pressure. Off The Record is way stronger as a bodyblocking tool, and a survivor in a locker can't block you. If they're in a locker and priming for a flashlight save, I'd just grab them to get the DS out of the way; they won't have enough time to pick up the slug and allow the slug to get anywhere. I'm fine with slugging being the counterplay. It'll be a problem if they implement that idiotic infinite Unbreakable, sure, but that's its own can of worms.
You're wrong on both counts. Granted, I don't play against particularly high level survivors either, but mostly I'm just more interested in chases than wins and I don't tunnel unless I'm losing, so most instances of DS I run into are survivors who are obviously trying to bait me and not people I was trying to down, and they're handing me free pressure versus forcing me to compromise with what would have been a down and hook.
Now, survivor - I'm pretty low MMR there and I see plenty of completely unnecessary early-game tunneling. Just yesterday I had a Wesker hard tunnel a Jill at 5 gens in what was already a DC-induced 3V1 (and when I say hard tunnel, I mean for all 3 hook states and that getting in his way and offering him free hits didn't deter him.) So no, I'm not especially sympathetic even though I do recognize tunneling is more necessary at higher level games. Survivors still spend a perk slot on DS and DS in its current state is pretty mediocre, so I think nerfing it further is a bad move.
Tunneling is the only way you might turn the game around and is a valid strategy that comes with a lot of risks. Still it doesn't mean that ds/otr can't be opressive(tbh ds can't, not anymore lol)
Nah. Five seconds, still works with lockers, activates after each unhook, remove skill check, disable killer powers for 10 seconds. Nothing less.
True chad
While this is true, people act like if you suddenly come into a situation where you have to tunnel to have a chance. Usually, when you start losing the game, there were mistakes before.
But yeah, DS cannot be oppressive anymore. At some point I have proposed that the Stun should be 2 seconds for each Gen remaining, so 5 Gens remaining, 10 second Stun, 3 Gens remaining 6 second Stun, 1 Gen = 2 seconds, etc... And deactivated once Gates are powered.
This would also account for the fact that Killers will need to tunnel more when there are less Gens to do. But if you decide to tunnel at 5 Gens and pick up the Survivor, they get a 10 second stun, because they managed to down a Survivor, hook them AND down them again with 5 Gens up, aka there is no need to tunnel at this point.
But overall, I would be happy if it is 5 seconds again, just because DS deserves to be a meaningful Anti-Tunnel Perk, because the Survivor has no way to progress the game when they want to keep DS.
No, with it deactivating when all gens are complete, 5 seconds are fine.
It should be 4 seconds, and work twice, once for each hook state.
3 seconds is too short, to the point that any killer with mobility just catches right back up to you 3 seconds later. And if it worked on each hook state, then it would be a true tunnelling deterrent, as the killer would know you had it the second time.
So you went back to hook when the unhook happened, dove back on the target that was just unhooked, chased them down, downed them, then picked them up, and you're mad that the survivor perk that exists purely and solely for that very specific situation is punishing you for completing that five-step plan required to get the perk to activate.
You faceplant into a DS -that- hard, you deserve a 10 second stun, let alone a five second one. And, contrary to your earlier statement, it isn't 'free'. It costs a hook state to use, remember?
If they try to bodyblock or flashlight save with it, just smack them down and continue on your way. They lose more time crawling on the ground than you do landing one (1) free hit.
just make it usable twice
a 5 second stun was about 20m added to chase, and then bc killers only make 40/60cm of distance per second in chase its also much further on top of the distance you made during the stun
current ds is now you use it and chase starts, no 50-60m of w keying first
Time. That's what's y'all are missing. Having to go on another chase with a survivor after you just downed them is devastating, and potentially game-losing on its own. Even if you don't pick them up and get DS'd, you just had to waste time downing them, while you go into cooldown and the unhooker gets an extra lead, and then the other person gets picked up. That's lose-lose, which you're forced to play into.
So the first chase costing you 2-3 gens is your fault, because now you're losing?
If you chase someone for 2-3 Gens, yes, you messed up.
You've admitted as being low MMR, so none of your experiences are gonna be anywhere near mine. Of course tunneling is strong at low level when no survivors know how to play against it. They're smart enough to pick up a slug but not smart enough to body block them? What is going on?
So DS doesn't do anything, just because after gens are done specifically, it doesn't work?
I'm not so sure about that last statement. I've had many games where when I went for slugs instead of hooks, they were able to pick each other up faster than I could down. Y'all don't?
By George, you're smarter than this, man!
If survivors spawn on gens separately, a very common scenario, and you chase the first person you see, they run to a jungle gym or something, force you to break the pallet, hold W to the next loop, and then go down after you've had to Bloodlust that pallet, then hook them and walk towards a gen, that's 80 seconds: 3 gens. If you drop chase with that person because, "they're too good" or "they're in a strong position" then you've wasted time for nothing and are probably in an even worse position. You cannot pressure all 4 survivors right of the bat; it isn't possible.
The forums today have been an absolute April Fool's joke.
No, it does something. It discourages killers from tunneling someone out as fast as possible and it gives the survivor player a chance to play a little more. It doesn't do anything if the killer doesn't tunnel and it doesn't prevent tunneling either. It just makes tunneling a little more frustrating for killers to pursue.
DS Is already OP still, any buff to it, gg abusers again
4 secs and no Locker stun.
Wonder when this dev team took over for the one that realized how poorly matches were going, when no obsession was present in the trial. So they made it so that there was always an obsession chosen from that point forward (regardless if any obsession perks were picked on either side) - only to play into the fear of DS when there may have never even been one in the trial.
And that was with old DS (five-second stun and usable in the end game).
Y'all can't have it both ways. You can't call DS useless when it does discourage or prevent tunneling, just because you can't stun the killer when he's very intentionally not tunneling.
I said I'm low MMR as survivor, because I'm solo queue and I'm randomly but constantly dragged down by people quitting at the start. As killer, I'd assume my MMR's more moderate; I'm at a point where I can play for the 12 hook and my matches can go either way. (When I was low MMR as killer during the anniversary event, I knew.)
I have no idea what you're referring to with survivors being smart enough to pick up slugs but not smart enough to bodyblock them.
Regardless, asking for a buff to tunneling is something that applies across the ladder, so I really can't condone improving it for top end games when everyone else is going to suffer for it hardcore. Tunneling is way stronger than it should be from a game design perspective (because having the dominant strategy be to remove a player ASAP is bad for fun, but the way the game is set up makes it the most effective way to play in most circumstances) and nearly anything that discourages it is a good thing in my eyes.
I believe the developer has said this about DS in the past.
'The good killer players we know are countering by slugging the players they think have DS'.
I don't think your adjustment is bad; having DS is not a free pass to earn free time.
Never said it was useless. I disagree with you saying the current one discourages tunneling because the 3 seconds do nothing to discourage it, especially when faced against the most popular mobile killers who can quickly close the little distance you can gain. It was fine at 5 seconds as long as it was before 5 gens were done. As all things are with swf, they're really the only ones who can use it to it's full potential since they know how to rescue in pairs and take heat off of the survivor after they stun the killer. Solo needs something to help with the lack of teamwork and bumping it back to 5 seconds would do that.
If you try to go for 12 hooks and you honestly don't think the match is leaning towards you losing, your survivors are weak. I feel as if I'm losing the whole time until the very end, when I actually do win, and usually there's no more than 1 or 2 gens left (with progress on them as well). With killers like Hag, it's a miracle if I actually do win, and always because the survivors were weak or threw. Takes next to nothing to trip traps and loop a 110%. Even Wesker I get this feeling with though, because my survivors basically always attempt, and succeed a lot, to dodge my power so I don't get that extra slowdown.
You said that survivors can pick up the slug, but that they wouldn't get very far after being picked up. If you're right there as they're being picked up, that's not "proxy" camping them, is it? And if they get up and you're not right but you are still going after them, why would the person who picked them up not body block?
Tunneling's already good at the bottom level, which we should never be balancing for, so why not make it better for top level in which it's like the only viable playstyle? The devs have shot down every attempt to make killers strong enough to win without tunneling, so why don't they just embrace it instead of making half-measures? Survivors don't need base anti-tunnel other than the free BT they get now, because it already gets used against non-tunnelers who try to go for the unhooker anyway.
Funny thing I've noticed is that it's always the killer's fault and always the survivors who are in need of buffs in order to fix a problem. It's sacrilege at this point to suggest that survivors need to go throw some changes to make the game better. Sure, they get a perk nerfed or rather reworked every now and then, but new animations were cried about to death, the person on hooks hitbox was made bigger, and less hooks spawn on maps. The biggest reason we can't buff solos or survivors in general is because the devs won't make killers as strong as they need to be to deal with those newly buffed survivors. So the 'biased' solution of simply buffing killers first is the only one that secures a much needed killer buff.
I ate 3 ds in a row in the span of 15s, i apparently tunnelled
Why not try 4 seconds first? 3 is too little but 5 feels too punishing when you aren't tunnelling. 4 seconds seems like a good middle ground to try.