Firellius
Firellius
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199188#Comment_3199188
It all has to do with gen speeds more than camping and tunneling.If you can’t see that it’s hopeless.I f half a gen is fine before a killer can get into a chase,is that not a gen speed issue?!if a killer gets hung up and the chase is extended and the other survivors have les pressure,is that not a gen speed issue?!When the gens are so close that the survivors can bounce from one to another in just a couple of seconds do they are getting two done extremely fast,is that not a gen speed issue?!Gens going in under z50 seconds,is that not a gen speed issue?!Your just being obtuse!
No, you are stubbornly trying to change the subject.
The only way to deal with a killer camping or tunneling is to do gens as fast as possible. Increasing gen time is therefor a direct buff to these tactics.
Stop whinging about people talking about camping and tunneling. It's a lynchpin problem in almost all balance issues, and YOU will have to live with that fact.
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@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199175#Comment_3199175
Great. Then there is no problem setting the stun duration to 7 seconds.
It’s should still be disabled in endgame though.
Yep. It's part of why I think DS is way better design than OTR.
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199176#Comment_3199176
Gens at 120 seconds and I’m not you dear!All the things I mentioned have direct impact on gen speed.
Yes, gens going for 120 seconds solo.
So we're not talking about map sizes, gens spawning too close together, survivor add-ons or killer hitboxes.
We're talking about 120 seconds gens.
And the impact that would have on the game.
Including on camping and tunneling.
YOU are the one derailing the conversation, bud.
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199142#Comment_3199142
I understand the post just fine.There are a myriad of thing that should have been addressed besides camping and tunneling.How about map sizes,gens that spawn too close together (why three gemming is so common)?Survivor add ons that make gens go in under 50 seconds by a solo survivor?Kuller hit boxes so big we get hung up on everything or hit by pallets we aren’t even close too?All those are valid topics for this post,camping and tunneling isn’t even in the top ten of things that could be discussed here.That’s all survivors can bring up though and the broad interpretation of the two makes it meaningless.
What's the topic title, dear?
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@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199061#Comment_3199061
Sure, fine by me. I dont sant to make the perk too strong though, and easy to exploit by strong swf.
DS is impossible to exploit, since you cannot force the killer to pick someone up.
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199128#Comment_3199128
No I’m not a troll,I am to the point where reading the forum is a waste of time because that’s all that’s talked about.And you resorting to name calling and leaving conversation me as ms you have no counter to what I’m saying.
'Troll' is the nice word.
Unless you want to argue you're dumb enough to not understand that killer tactics should be discussed when talking about changes that relate to those tactics.
So I'm just going to assume you're trolling, and not an idiot.
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OTR is worse for both killers and survivors, in comparison to DS. For survivors for the aforementioned reasons.
For killers, an OTR bodyblock leaves the survivor able to do anything, whereas a DS bodyblock will incapacitate the blocker, benefitting the killer if they don't pick up the slug.
DS should go back to 5 seconds or higher.
OTR should suppress noises, scratches, aura reading and bloodtrails and be fully disabled upon a conspic action, to be a higher risk, higher reward anti-tunnel with a different purpose to DS.
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198884#Comment_3198884
See you just proved my point!Every post gets turned into a camping and tunneling post.
Ah, you're a troll. Never mind then.
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Should add a warning when queueing as killer: "Survivor perks may confer benefits to survivors."
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198217#Comment_3198217
It seems every post by a survivor is about camping and tunneling,the discussion could be about what outfit do you like on Feng and the first survivor post will be about camping and tunneling.It’s brought up soo much in every post that it’s now irrelevant.It’s just a meaningless phrase.
Then complain somewhere else. This is a balance discussion where tunneling and camping have to be addressed.
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197438#Comment_3197438
Not everything is about camping and tunneling!Ask a survivor about Monday night football and they will complain the defense is tunneling the ball carrier.It never ends with camping and tunneling!Oh he was across the board and he looked in my direction that’s camping!Ih he hit me after he downed two other survivors but I was in death hook he’s tunneling!!
Wrong place to rant about that, bud, I'm talking about tactical implications of camping/tunneling, so misidentifying those doesn't play a part.
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Nonono, the NEXT sweeping survivor nerfs/killer buffs will make them camp and tunnel less, trust me!
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
There would have to be conditions on this. It couldn't apply once all gens are done (killer has nothing else to patrol) nor when there is a survivor within some meters of the hook, otherwise survivors will intentionally loop near the hooked survivor to extend their hook timer, which buys the team more time to do gens.
But, that would effectively give the killer basekit Whispers if they are observant; they'd be able to tell if there is a survivor nearby by watching the hook timer.
I don't think slower entity progression while the killer is near is feasible.
"There would have to be conditions on this. It couldn't apply once all gens are done (killer has nothing else to patrol) nor when there is a survivor within some meters of the hook, otherwise survivors will intentionally loop near the hooked survivor to extend their hook timer, which buys the team more time to do gens."
I don't see how this would work. How long is one survivor going to be able to loop around one or two cells? Long enough to offset the -33% manpower working on gens? Long enough to offset the fact that you then have two on hooks and probably only two gens done at max?
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197510#Comment_3197510
You know that 60% isn't even a 3k average? It's around 2.5k and considering how many people I've seen kill themselves on first hook and a new killer survivors have to learn to play against a 2 5k average isn't that bad.
You do realize that it's the killers objects to hit you right?
Is your balancing goal that killers just flat-out win on average? That killers just get matches thrown into their lap as freebies?
I mean, I knew the forums were killer-sided, but between your 'It's not even a 3k!' and @Ayodam 's 'It's a good idea to screw the balance up so badly there won't be any survivor players left', I think you're moving the bar even further!
@Ayodam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197514#Comment_3197514
BHVR told us boosting base killer features slows down camping & tunneling & gen slowdown stacking so you’re wrong…
No, they didn't. Forum killers did. And they lied.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197497#Comment_3197497
Well, fortunately “bad killers” are a minority according to this forum so camping/stacked slowdown/tunneling won’t really be much an issue. Exploitation will happen, of course, but it’s going to be rare.
Don’t you think if gens took 120+ seconds that killers could have a little more fun with chasing survivors & such? Maybe each time a survivor dies repair time reduces by 10 seconds individually, so when there is one survivor left it only takes them around 90 seconds to complete a generator. It’s fair because technically if there is one survivor remaining they shouldn’t really be focused on completing generators. And the killer has essentially won the game anyway.
Considering the kill rates are already at over 60%, bumping repair times by freaking 33% is probably going to kill the game.
And then when someone complains about camping, you'll be right there going 'Maybe killers would camp less if gens were 150 seconds!'
Stop using it as your beatstick. I'm tired of the 'nerf survivors or else I'll camp!' motto of these forums.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197438#Comment_3197438
Perhaps if gens individually took 120+ seconds killers wouldn’t think they had to camp, tunnel, or stack slowdown perks anymore.
That argument is bull, since any killer sufficiently bad at the game will continue to employ it, no matter how easy the game is made for them.
@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197438#Comment_3197438
Camping is totally on the survivors for feeding it 99% of the time. I just had a match where wesker was camping and I had reassurance but my teammates still had to go unhook instead of doing gen with the extra time. They are currently trying to phase both those strategies out of the game. As I said 120 was just a big number for the sake of the thread. See the current problem is the killer can only be in one place at a time while the survivors can be at 4 different places. This mixed with the most efficient way to do the objective is solo means that if the killer can't start a snowball they can't control the match. Many maps have really bad gen spread for killers making it impossible to pressure gens with spit survivors and BHVR clearly doesn't plan on improving map design so core gameplay needs to be mixed up. It's just my opinion though.
If someone else isn't getting the unhook, you have to. Solos can't communicate, which is why survivors 'feed it'.
I myself suggested what you're going for here, but I mentioned then, as it continues to hold true now: camping and tunneling make this thing a pipe dream.
And BHVR aren't getting rid of camping and tunneling, they've been buffing it a ton lately.
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@Crowman said:
This idea is terrible.
Working on a gen with other survivors should not be made more efficient working on a gen solo. You already get more BP working on a gen with other survivors and while it's not as efficient the gen still gets done faster which can be useful for getting a highly contestable center gen done and break up an endgame 3 gen. It doesn't also need to be more efficient.
Survivors working on gens together are already hard to defend as it is due to how fast gens can get done if survivors work on a single gen together. The main trade off is that it's less efficient for survivors to stack.
That's a really warped take on this idea.
120 seconds base would mean that even with faster co-op speeds, gens would probably still take longer than they currently do.
This would be a fantastic change for killers, but there's two reasons it can't be implemented. And that's camping and tunneling. Currently, the fastest way for survivors to do gens is to split up on them. This is also the safest way to do them, as it's the hardest to pressure.
Inverting solo and co-op speeds would push survivors into grouping up, increasing efficiency of killer pressure and massively increasing pressure from hooking a survivor. That last one is why it can't be done. It'd make camping and tunneling even more op than they already are.
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@LittleBigSunset said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196844#Comment_3196844
My point is that disincentives don't work if the killer doesn't care about losing. Which in most cases like the Bubba here they don't. He hits on hook, facecamps and ignores the other survivors letting them do gens. That's an almost guaranteed loss. The disincentives put in place are to make it so such an action IS potentially game losing, not game winning, but if the killer isn't fussed about winning they have no effect. For some players ruining another person's experience is for them a win eg: Pigs who sat in front of boxes from the get go on the off chance that one person is unable to get their trap off and dies. They lose, but enjoy the fact they ensured one person couldn't escape because it's 'funny'.
In these cases toxic behaviour can't be discouraged. The only solution is to stop it outright but that's an impossible solution without royally screwing up the gameplay balance (making unhooked survivors invincible for instance could easily be abused by competent SWFs).
I don't mean to argue. We're both coming from the same place. But I feel the devs are owed a tiny amount of credit in that this is a problem they cannot solve outright. It is down to the players themselves to decide that playing through a match normally is more fun than throwing it just for the sake of ruining one person's experience. If the killer does care about winning then by all means disincentives can be effective. The ten second base kit BT has already done me wonders in reducing tunnelling, and although it does not stop it completely it makes tunnelling a much more punishing play if the tunnelled survivor is competent in chase. DS should be reverted to five seconds as it is too situational to warrant being weak if you manage to get use out of it. OtR is a solid anti-tunnelling choice. There are viable disincentives available that can make committing to a tunnel game losing for the killer. But if they don't care about losing, these disincentives don't work. But that's out of the developer's hands.
"But I feel the devs are owed a tiny amount of credit in that this is a problem they cannot solve outright."
I disagree.
Because it's one thing to not be able to physically stop someone from playing to expressly ruin another's fun, but it's another to not work on disincentivising these tactics, and it's yet another to take as many steps as they do to incentivise them instead.
They added gen time, cut DS by 40%, made OTR incompatible with the one thing they did give survivors to combat this nonsense, and when they came up with a perk that could actually hardcore damage camping, they neutered it before it could get out of PTB, specifically on its ability to counter camping!
They're encouraging camping and tunnelling. That's a step worse than not being able to stop people from actively choosing to ruin the game.
Which, by the by, they could also rule a reportable offense.
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I mean, it's more than wonky visuals, Huntress hatchets can hit through solid objects. Had that happen to an ally once, and the killer in postgame said they were banking on hitting through the object.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196508#Comment_3196508
What percentage of matches do you think are affected by cheaters? Balance issues affect every match. 100% of them.
I mean if every match had a cheater in it, you'd have a case for saying that addressing cheating should priority one. But I'd be surprised if even 5% of matches have cheaters.
Is there data on how prevalent cheating is? I mean not just reports, because people report all manner of nonsense.
I recall a distributor of cheats once claiming that, by their estimate, roughly 10% of DBD players run cheats. That's one in ten players. With 5 players in every match, that comes down to half of all matches being corrupted by cheats.
But outside of that, what do you think cheating does to considerations of balance?
If someone loses a match of DBD, is that a balance problem, or was someone cheating?
If all survivors were to take on subtle cheats and boost their movespeed to 105%, and the kill rate for killers plummets as a result, is that a balance issue?
You can make balance changes, but if the problem is cheaters, you make the game -less- balanced, AND you don't deal with the cheaters.
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@LittleBigSunset said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196445#Comment_3196445
Put PTB Reassurance aside, what can the devs do to stop the killer from hitting you on hook, facecamping you and tunnelling you out of the game if they feel like it? One perk shouldn't be the solution to the whole camping debacle, and even if it punishes camping as I've said these killers don't care if they're punished for it. Even if that survivor never hits struggle they are still on the hook, bored out of their mind and almost guaranteed to die. And that's these killers want, for you to have a bad experience and get frustrated.
BT, OtR, DS etc. are disincentives to tunnel because they guarantee you'll have a harder time catching that unhooked survivor. But if the killer doesn't care that the other people are doing gens in the meantime and that they could throw the game, what's stopping them from continuing to play the way they are? It is out of the developers' hands nigh making unhooked survivors invincible which could easily be abused in standard games. There just isn't a solution. It's down to the players individually to decide whether or not they want to be dicks.
If the killer does want to win then there are measures of discouragement such as the perks I've listed above. And yet this behaviour continues to happen. And that's because these killers don't care about winning.
But this is where you're making a mistake: You're talking about STOPPING the killer from camping/tunnelling. In your previous post, you were talking about 'disincentivising'. They're different things. Any time people talk about the latter, the former gets argued against.
Reassurance should go back to its pre-nerf state. DS can be 10 seconds without risk. You can amp up the baseline.
The problem with Camping/Tunnelling is that these tactics are incredibly easy to employ by the killers, and really hard to counterplay for the survivors. If these tactics just get weakened, that's a disincentive. Yes, there will still be trolls. But at least people don't resort to them as cheap strats that solo play has little to no counter to.
Disincentivising them is super easy and has been done in the past. But these 'disincentives' just got nerfed to crap.
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@Gylfie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196465#Comment_3196465
An anti-tunnelling perk that is disabled by tunnelling. I don't even have words for that. How does stuff like that make it to the live game lmao.
Because in the PTB, it worked. It was changed, going from PTB to Live. The change that caused OTR to be disabled by tunneling was never tested.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
This is something I've been wondering about as of late. Before, DS was probably the number one most meta perk in existence. It went through so, so, so many iterations of just being straight-up unfair. Free escape, to free escape if you're the obsession, to anti-tunnel in name only because I told you, Laurie, Myers isn't tunneling you if you're working on a gen in his face! Until, of course, there were the deactivation conditions added and it was still extremely popular (barring the first few weeks after the nerf when people realized, "Oh yeah, DS is still good actually), so it was victim to one of the Double Whammy that hit a lot of old meta perks.
Justified or not, it's been nerfed pretty harshly. However, we got OtR now which lasts 80 seconds, can be used twice, cannot be outslugged, and unless they can grab you, the killer has to eat through it.
Yeah, sure, some killers can play around it but DS was the same. You DS a Nurse/Blight, you were going down very fast after if they're good. Those 5 seconds were not saving you. Funnily enough, the ones that can play around it best, Bubba (cuz chainsaw multi-hits), Slinger, and Legion (cuz Deep Wound) isn't even close to being the dreaded top tiers people complain about. Even Wesker whose popularity cannot be overstated gets hit hard by Endurance, which OtR gives. For 80 seconds. And that's just the main draw, that's not even getting into hiding your aura and muffling your grunts, even when you do a conspicuous action.
So, why don't more people use it? DS was extremely popular despite being from a licensed chapter that you'd need to pay real money for. OtR is from a chapter you can get with shards and has been around for a while now.
I only have a single theory. People used DS alongside BT, so you more or less had two layers of protection the killer had to eat through, not even getting into things like DH. Now, since it's Endurance, you can't DH, OtR can't be used with BT since they do the same thing, and everyone has base BT so bringing it feels redundant when the killer will likely just immediately hit you after a hook anyway.
That's my only guess. People give theories you may have.
"However, we got OtR now which lasts 80 seconds, can be used twice, cannot be outslugged, and unless they can grab you, the killer has to eat through it."
I think that's the problem: this isn't true.
Endurance doesn't stack, and when you get unhooked, you get ten seconds of endurance baseline. If the killer hits you in that time, OTR is disabled.
So OTR, a perk whose only purpose is to punish tunnelling, can be disabled by tunnelling hard enough.
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@LittleBigSunset said:
While I sympathise with you and agree that killers like this can be a massive killjoy, there isn't really anything the devs can do to discourage it. If a player wants to be toxic they will be, and it turns out that killer is by far a better role for ruining your opponent's experience. Case in point, this Bubba. These players don't do it for points or pips, they do it to piss the other side off because either they themselves are pissed off or they're sad enough to want to ruin someone else's fun just for the sake of it and to get potential salt (posts like this for example - not that I don't agree with what you're saying).
So if the toxic player isn't being toxic for the sake of points/pips what can the devs do to discourage it? This Bubba clearly didn't care that he could potentially throw the game by camping and solely focusing you. To him the victory was in making sure you didn't get to do anything fun. You could throw in some sort of gameplay measure to prevent hard camping eg: Bubba's saw overheats close to the hook but these measures go into murky waters and could stand to be abused by competent survivors ie: the PTB version of Reassurance. I myself don't see a solution. BHVR can't police their playerbase beyond obvious game rule violations such as hacking. And as it does technically get punished (while you are being tunnelled everyone else is free to do gens) I can't see them taking any steps to discourage toxic behaviour.
But still, it sucks. Only yesterday did I witness a game against a Nurse where my friend and his team were slugged and left to bleed out on the floor for no reason. Games like that can absolutely kill any incentive to play. I wish you better luck with future games because when you get a non-toxic fun match for both sides that is where the game shines.
"While I sympathise with you and agree that killers like this can be a massive killjoy, there isn't really anything the devs can do to discourage it."
They can. In fact, they did, and then killers whinged about it and it was nerfed specifically in its ability to discourage camping.
It's not that the devs can't do anything about it, it's that the devs can't do anything about it without the forums flooding with a mixture of "I suck too much to get kills any other way" and "Muh valid tactic".
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@Krazzik said:
I mean BT and OTR isn't some invincibility shield, it should always be an option to just go through it.
"The anti-tunnel perks should not hinder tunnelling too much"
DS should go up to 10 seconds, IMO.
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*3-page essay on how survivors are supposed to play absolutely immaculately*
Meanwhile killer: *eye emoji at hook*
Anti-camp/tunnel measures don't have to make either tactic physically inoperable, they just need to make them flat-out terrible options.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193144#Comment_3193144
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193146#Comment_3193146
Thats a lot of slots taken up to counter a combo that can easily change to "okay new plan. Split pressure, he has no real gen defense". Considering a gen with hyperfocus and toolbox alone can take only 45 seconds. So i doubt this "combo" is really much of a counter to the combo im addressing, At least running all 3 at once.
Welcome to playing survivor, where half your perk loadout is taken up to counter something that the opposing side doesn't even need to invest in!
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If nothing else, the BBQ and WGLF stacks are just good game design, offering more objectives for tangible rewards. They can off-set a bad outcome too. If the killer gets full BBQ stacks, that can off-set the bad feeling of getting only one kill. If a survivor gets full WGLF stacks, they might care less they got hooked in EGC and camped out.
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@Tsela said:
oh really? Gens don't even run away, why do survivors camp it? it's so easy! Needs no skills at all to hold a button :)) See? We can do this also. Come on, your argument makes no sense
Did you forget killers can force survivors off gens, but survivors can't force killers off hooks?
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Had one Myers get greedy, chasing people while carrying someone. I saw him approach a hook and gambled on it, bodyblocking him. He hit me, I ran off, and just before he could reach the hook, the survivor jumped off. Felt like Swiffer, but I was solo at the time.
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'Throwing' is a bit of a stretch, but unless you are doing it to charge Inner Healing, it does decrease your team's chances to win.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3180966#Comment_3180966
Maybe try incentives not to. Punishment never works in a match setting. and something like Actually banning/timing out players would be a good way to kill a game that has lost players 10 out of the past 12 months.
That incentive would need to compete with a zero effort strategy that is near guaranteed to 2K or better. In other words, busted as heck.
Camping needs to be kicked down to 1K or worse in order to get rid of it.
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They're unbelievably situational, requiring the wielder to be the last survivor in the match and for the killer to find the hatch before the survivor does and for the killer to not be near the hatch. All those conditions stacked on top of each other for a purple or iri item to do a thing. And the green key is entirely devoid of purpose of its own.
They're all dependent on add-ons, but that doesn't make keys better. The green key's mere existence is effectively a drawback, as it is possible that a chest contains a de facto useless item.
They should just be reworked with their aura reading in mind, into new items. Maybe the key can be its own mechanism once the hatch is locked.
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Once the hatch has spawned, there should be a 50% chance when opening a chest to get a key from it. Outside of that, keys should be reworked into beads and bangles, with the former allowing you to see the killer's aura, and the latter allowing you to see the aura of other survivors.
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Ran into a David that I kept running into on one of the swamp maps. He was stuck trying to figure out how to get out of the undercroft of one of the buildings. Since he just couldn't catch a break and one of my worst experiences also involved getting trapped in one of those crappy buildings, I picked him up and deposited him outside.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3175014#Comment_3175014
However much copium you need to huff to convince yourself. That I'm bad or camping and tunneling of any sorts isn't needed.
Go ahead and send yourself to garbage of joy as trickster. Go on ahead and send yourself to mothers dwelling. Go ahead and send yourself there as clown. I don't want to see ANY tunneling. I don't want to see ANY camping. I don't want to see you employing a boring ass 3 gen strategy. Nothing
Maybe YOURE perfectly fine with getting ######### on. Maybe YOURE perfectly fine with a 4 or 5 hook game by the time gens are gone. Maybe YOU'RE fine with artificially inflating your hooks at end game with exchanges, and ending with a ######### 2k after they just give up trying to get everyone out. But most people are not.
Want to hear something mind blowing ? Infinite reassurance wasn't needed to be a good survivor and deal with campers. Infinite reassurance wasn't needed to escape. That is a skill issue.
I love this one, too.
'Against competent survivors, you HAVE to tunnel and camp', married with 'Against competent survivors, tunnelling and camping don't work'.
Which is it?
Legitimately, this whole 'I can't win without camping' became a more prevalent argument after 6.1.0, where killers got a collection of compounding baseline buffs.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174470#Comment_3174470
Thats your fix ? Ok then. For fun. If 4 people bring it. That's 12 tokens for a total 360 seconds. That's 6 minutes of hang out time. That's overkill and not balance.
I get it that you hate camping. But I'm not sure why it's so hard to admit that maps arnt made for the killer to play "fair" without getting rolled. Why is it so hard to admit that something THAT drastic to basically kill camping. Cannot be done until they seriously address maps...Which given the latest map in garbage of joy, AND rpd remakes. Isn't happening anytime soon because the map designers suck
Because outside of the forums, this mentality of 'the killer can't win' doesn't get reflected and never has been. Kill rates, whenever they were shared, were consistently over 50%.
Besides, that argument hinges on competence. The worse you are, the more you can use that argument to justify bad balance changes. It's individual skill. It's not that killers can't win without camping or tunnelling, it's that -you- can't win without camping or tunnelling.
Add to that that no changes to balance can be made as long as killers get to keep their crutches. You wanna keep camping in? Fine, but you don't get to complain about not being able to 12-hook.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174326#Comment_3174326
And what were the obvious ones ? Because it was highly unhealthy and abusable on the PTB. It's in a good state now
Literally just limiting it to 3 tokens would've solved the problem. And if you're worried about end-game camping, just make it disable in EGC. The nerf they went for was specifically chosen so it would not work against facecampers anymore.
And for all this talk about how 'unhealthy and abusable' it was on the PTB, does anyone actually have any footage of an actual game where it was an actual problem?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174316#Comment_3174316
Camping to an extent has to be done sometimes. Using it infinitly wasn't healthy. Game balance wise. It was also used for greifing.
There were obvious alternative solutions. This change was done to protect hard facecampers specifically.
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Fixated and Distressing.
Increasing terror radius makes it a far less reliable tool for survivors to discern the killer's location. If your TR covers the entire map, it's functionally indistinguishable from Undetectable.
Fixated is an amazing stealth perk, as it increases your action radius for scratch-less movement. If a killer comes to check on your gen, they'll check the immediate vicinity, while you're a distance away, wasting a ton of their time.
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Survivors just pulling an item from an already opened chest... They gotta stop abusing Appraisal!
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3172799#Comment_3172799
Increasing the base Gen regression... would be one thing
Making adjustments to Maps... would be another
All I'm saying is to stop asking for basekit perks...
And yes this game could reinvent the wheel... rather then relying on what they have (there's a reason why certain perks aren't being used)
Increasing the base Gen regression... would be one thing
That one's Call of Brine.
Making adjustments to Maps... would be another
Removing a window would be Bamboozle. Removing a Pallet would be Spirit Fury.
That's not to say these changes shouldn't happen, but to discredit a baseline change over it being a perk is a bad argument.
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@RaSavage42 said:
I didn't like the fact that they made BT basekit but also why it happened
Also the fact that this game was made for perks (for better or worse)... and the devs need to see all of the perks they have made so they can avoid making similar perks
This game has gooten to the point that they changed MM (even implemented MMR) but haven't done to much on maps and actual basekit changes that would make the game better
actual basekit changes that would make the game better
What kind of actual basekit changes would you suggest that -aren't- part of an existing perk?
Pretty much any change made to baseline will likely follow the template of an existing perk, because the existing perks cover so much ground in terms of game mechanics and how they are tweaked. Besides, why spend a ton of resources figuring out what to change and how to change it when these perks are essentially like field-tested blueprints? No need to reinvent the wheel.
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@Th3Nightmare said:
I play in the mornings in Europe and my killer queue is 30-45 seconds, why do I have NEVER since the introduction of this feature any time in the morning?
I usually play in the mornings and if this never changes I will never have a chance to win this x2.
I think something is wrong...
If killer queues are too long, that means there's not enough survivors, so the survivors get the incentive bonus.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3170913#Comment_3170913
Oh so it's better to slug and camp the body with slowdown than engage in chases. What a fun and exciting gameplay.
Well, if you want to pick them up, pick them up. Just don't get upset over the DS stun.
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@woodenEnthusiasm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3171203#Comment_3171203
Okay then there is no reason for the perk to last if the killer is further than 32 meters
There is. It prevents a camping killer from exploiting the deactivation condition.
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Plague is definitely the worst, but I'd wager Twins are second. Victor is half decomposed, and he and Charlotte lived in the Parisian sewers, didn't they?
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3170158#Comment_3170158
So your options for the killer are :
- throw the match by leaving the area and destroying your 3-4 gen, allowing anyone to get in the area and remove all your pressure. So much value for a single perk.
- slug the survivor and camp the body
What a fun and interesting gameplay. By the way, by going for the person he got deliverance from, do you want the killer to tunnel him or not ? Because going for the same survivor is tunneling right ?
Now you're being wilfully obtuse. If that guy got deliverance and triggered it, that means you split your hooks between the two of them. You know that's not tunnelling.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3170115#Comment_3170115
Let’s pretend you are the killer, on coldwind farm.
- All the remaining gens are close to the hook, except one far away, at the opposite side of the map.
- You know all the remaining survivors are on that gen far away, not worth defending (you saw them with BBQ).
- The survivor hooked use deliverance, you chase him and down him again.
Now what are you supposed to do according to you ?
Go for the person that he unhooked to get his deliverance up, pressure that one. Or sit on the one you just downed and wait for the 60 second timer before slapping them back on the hook. You have options, bud.
EDIT: Also, do you know how conditional this entire thing is? Should the survivor just get zero value from two perk slots and a ton of prep work because you feel slighted?
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3170124#Comment_3170124
LOL. Whatever you say. Theres only killer who can compete with those "brackets you belong in" And people complain daily and want it nerfed.
You should probably take your own advice though. Don't crutch on things like old DS, OTR, DH. To shoot yourself up in to brackets that you don't belong in
I have used DH in two matches, and never used DS or OTR.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3170115#Comment_3170115
What's it like to live in a world. Where that's always a viable option ? And you have a fair shot at more then 5-6 hooks tops by the time gens are good against competent survivors ?
Don't crutch to sling yourself up to an MMR bracket where you're not competent enough to get a win the normal way and you won't have to keep relying on your crutches.