Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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my experience is same as otz. Dead hard is the strongest perk in the game in my opinion. It used to be decisive strike before it got changed. Dead hard by far is most impactful perk in the entire game for survivor. Its not surprising to see it every single match.
There is no real reason not to use it. its very reliable second-chance perk that mirrors effects of old Mettle Of Man. I just wonder why people complained so much about MoM in its release but never complained about dead hard until MMR.
I'd say the matchmaking is stricter because many players laughed at patrick's hockey anology and mocked him saying that kill-based matchmaking does not work. Well, look who is laughing now?
It works very well. in fact it might be working too well now. it is boring to face same perks/killers repeatively, but its up to survivor player-base to ask for more killers to be stronger so that there is more variety in picking killers(for killer player) and in term of survivor perks. I do not have a problem facing the survivor perks if the killer is strong. Facing strong survivor perk is only bad when the killer is weak.
Strong survivor perks just makes weak killers more unfun to play because their chances of winning go from 30% to 0%. Playing auto-lose killers is unfun. As long there is 50/50 chance to win, playing killer is not that bad. Current state of the game for weaker killers is not 50/50.
so have fun facing nurse/blight with a random killer here and there.
from BVHR perceptive, they said they do not want to improve killers until they make solo as strong as SWF with their proposal being survivor icons. I wonder where these survivor icons are. they've talked about them awhile ago with no progress in sight.
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@Advorsus said:
I don't really compare We'll make it to COH, yeah they're both healing but activation requirements and effects are pretty different.
I'd actually compare wmi to BT, to which I feel wmi is actually better. Most people take bt but it really only beats out wmi when facing killers that are just face camping.
well a lot of killers in current mmr camp hooks a lot and tunnel survivor off hook 24/7. I used to run both borrow time and we'll make it as a result of that. Now I run BT & COH.
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I would say that the strength behind COH is that it does not require me to perform healing action. its like you have 5th player that heals you for free at 50% rate. previously, it gave you a free teammate that heals you at 75% and before that, it was free full 5th player at 100% just for totem existing.
COH is still strong. its just less strong than it past predecessors.
We'll make it makes 1 survivor for 90 seconds able to heal at speed of 2 survivors. so for example, when you heal on hook, activating we'll make it is like two survivor went for the save and healed under hook.
We'll make it is more situational. you need get unhooked, the killer has not camp hooks and it likely only results in healing 1 or 2 health states at best within 90 seconds. We'll make requires the survivor to heal. you need two players for effect to be relevant. COH has self-care bonus so it does not require input from survivor who has it to heal you. Its place and forget perk.
I would say killers that complaining about COH are complaining because solo-players are now as efficient at healing as SWF are. SWF can already find teammates very quickly and can heal very efficiently through communication programs(discord).
Solo I would say on average take more time to heal each other without COH than with it because its harder to find teammates. In many ways COH bridges gap between SWF efficiency and solo-healing efficiency.
Its just that SWF can also use this perk and it is far more powerful because extra health states that COH gives can be used to bodyblock the killer where as solo-players do not use COH to bodyblock for teammates in most cases. you can watch tru3 vs oracle swf to showcase this without COH. Its even more nasty with this perk.
One day, I hope they invent a perk for killer that weakens sprint burst from survivor so that body-blocking is more punishable for m1 killers. right only only instant down killers and high-tier killers like nurse, blight etc. can punish bodyblocking, for rest its just free second-chances in a chase via teammates. very annoying for killer player to deal with.
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TL:DR SWF do not need COH but greatly benefit from it, Solo need COH because it bridges informational gap of finding teammate to heal you.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2875785#Comment_2875785
30% makes it practically impossible to avoid an instadown tho, especially when its someone who was 99%. It's like having basekit Coup. 2 seconds is a long ass time, especially considering ghostface can 99, then get closer to guarantee it.
The 10% haste for 5 seconds is nuts enough. You dont ever want haste to be above 10% without having a downside to it. Exhaustion perks have the downside that if they arent used correctly, they go into a massive cooldown, use it wrongly and you're pretty much dead. Play With Your Food has the downside of losing stacks. Bloodlust has the downside of not kicking any pallets nor using your ability for 45 seconds.
Being able to move at 125% everytime you mark someone means you have reasons to fully stalk an already injured survivor to gain that extra boost mid-chase of a fully stalked person to get a second 10% boost. The potential of that addon is much larger than it might imply.
The 5% haste from the addon is also 5.75% practical speed, because they are the same haste effects. There are some exceptions(mainly event related), but those are far too niche to use effectively. Let alone that 5% haste for 20 seconds is absolute nuts. If the average chase can be considered 40 seconds with 2 hits, then having a 5% haste for 20 seconds with an instadown can easily reduce that average below 20 seconds. Essentially, it will always have a significantly positive outcome. As I stated above, even though Exhaustion perks seem like they are a free second chance, getting the timing right, knowing how to hold it and when to use it and making sure you can lead the chase to a position where using it benefits you are all things that require skill. Misusing it a little bit, and you basically down yourself. Sure, it might have bought 2 extra seconds, but considering an exhaustion effect lasts for 3 seconds, dropping a pallet, jumping in a locker, vaulting a window, trying to spin all have more time that can be bought. At the higher skill levels of survivor, failing an exhaustion perk is often worse than literally not using it at all and trying something else.
10% for 5 seconds is just on that edge where it can have massive rewards, but also has a potential to still make mistakes. 5% for 10 seconds has equal distance gain over a longer period of time, but also gives more consistency than 10% for 5 seconds.
Personally, the change I would make to the addon is to keep the original crouching speed in addition of the 10% haste. Gives it a bit more utility and have consistency in that aspect, while giving it the ability to massively reduce chase when used correctly.
this comment... wow weeee where do I even begin when talking about this comment. First of all when 99% stalk, a large goal behind 99% stalk is to instantly proc mark. most of the time, when your procing 99% mark, your already pointblank at the survivor and ready to m1 them. You do not need movement speed at pointblank to hit a survivor with mark.
Second of all, 10% speed for 5 seconds is like equal to clown yellow bottle after procing the mark. its like worse than 2 stack PWYF because PWYF lasts indefinitely until you land a hit and worse bloodlust as it has infinity duration as long as your in chase. Most killers move at 4.6(115%), this add 0.4 m/s per second. your traveling 2 meters more than normal over course of 5 seconds. I'm willing to bet that this is like worse then dead hard in term of distance gain.
This add-on has downside, the downside is that you have to mark the survivor and carefully time your speed boost at moment where it would make the difference between landing a hit or not. Its just that at 10% for 5 seconds, this is almost never going to make much a difference in most pallet looping environments. The vast majority of safe pallets are far too safe for this movement to be of much use.
On average vs strong survivor players, you get broken out of nightshroud 24/7 as Ghostface. you barely get to use his ability for anything more than undetectable. I will say on average, on my best games, its like at most, you get like 3 stalks a game if even that. On my worst games, its clear 0. Its just that at low-levels, surivivors are.... notoriously bad at breaking ghostface out such that you can stalk and mark on every single chase. that was possible pre-mmr. Now it is different.
While on topic of exhaustion perks. Dead hard for distance barely has any timing vs m1 killers. Its just press E to a window or pallet. Dead hard vs like... nurse blinks and blight's rushes has more timing to it because you need actual reactions and game sense to utilize it. Overcome does not have timing, you just get free distance when you get hit. Sprint burst away from a generator is not really timing, its just hold-W which is strong against most killers. Vaulting strong windows with Lithe a lot of the time is just free distance. Most of exhaustion perks are just about being in right situation to use them more so than timing.
My interpretation of this add-on is that add-on is designed to be baby wraith lunge upon activating mark. wraith is 50% at 1 second with less conditions. my suggestion is 30% for 2 seconds. you could argue for lower duration, like 1.5 or 1, but for purple add-on, this almost grey add-on in value.
"Personally, the change I would make to the addon is to keep the original crouching speed in addition of the 10% haste. Gives it a bit more utility and have consistency in that aspect"
If I understand this sentence correctly, you want it to be 10% haste for 5 seconds every single time ghostface crouches. I think that is highly too easy to abuse as you could keep haste effect permanently active. I would respectfully disagree with such a change. It would be too powerful in my opinion. crouch speed add-ons were almost never used for ghostface. recovery was always superior choice even post-changes.
I personally used chewed pen and ghostface caught on tape and both grey and yellow add-on for recovery. I tend to only like 4 or so add-ons per killer. on some killers I use more type of add-ons if they're really good and I like them. Like with blight, I use many different combinations because I think a lot of them are pretty good and somewhat under-rated. ghostfaces current add-ons are pretty bad so I didn't see much point in using any add-on variety with him.
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next nerf will probably be 11%/22%/33% from 40%/45%/50%.
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21.33 seconds to self-care. 10.66 seconds to heal. so about 21 and 11 seconds to heal now.
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day 2 is what I face everyday as killer. day 1 is what casual killers face every day.
day 3 feels like slightly weaker players but still strong survivors.
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I would say it does not matter where totems are because of the sound that hex totem emits. Its what makes hex totems so easy to find. If they're trying make hex totems harder to find, they'd need remove hex burning sound. The totem spawning on generators is salt on wound.
they could always bring back old hex:undying to improve lifespan of hexes. I would say that hexes are suppose to be time-consuming to remove rather than impossible to find. finding one totem is just not very time-consuming to eliminate a killer perk for minimal time investment especially if it spawns on generators...
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I would prefer 30% for 2 seconds.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2874670#Comment_2874670
Honestly Blight, Huntress, Bubba are good examples for good killers. They are balanced, strong and viable.
they are good examples. Legion and Ghostface are good examples that are far from those 3 and their changes are insufficient to bring them closer to those 3. you see the problem? with last 6 months, they've made more killers go further away from ideal instead of closer. the negative changes they make are very impactful and positive changes they make to killers are not really noticeable.
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they're testing MMR ranges. 28 was like facing complete new players. 29 is what it is currently on normal days which is very sweaty.
They need one that is more middle-ground like 3/4th of what 29th/current one specifically for killer.
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@kizuati said:
Imagine if we don't nerf billy's base or addons and just make his turn rate a tad higher,like 25%? There will be so much more hilarious ######### happening with long sprints on open maps...
BHVR,c'mon
here's extra 3% for you.
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nurse is high skill-floor, high skill-cieling
Blight is medium skill-floor, medium skill-cieling.
People that play nurse for first time are completely awful at her to the point that even killing one person is an achievement. It takes many games on average for a player to getting 2-3 kills on nurse at consistent basis. depending how slow/fast learner the player is, it can take between 100-500 hours. she is by far hardest killer in dbd. I'd go as far to say that many players never really get to an average level on her.
Blight's at the start plays like an m1 killer with mobility, but in general, people that play blight for first few games end up hurting themselves with their ability in chase. The funny thing is that they don't even know it. overall, I'd say that you get a basic grasp of understanding blight after around 20 games which is like less than 10 hours, but there is depth to his gameplay past first 20 games. His more advanced skills take a while to learn, like 100 hours or so. if you put time and effort to semi-main blight, most people get to a decent mastery of blight.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2873399#Comment_2873399
Even if you do avoid mending that is time lost waiting till legion is finished ff. My concern is more that players will just wait to get stabbed then drop a pallet. To deny the 5th hit. Even then endurimg spiirtfury could make it a lose lose situation.
Worse case scenario you now have increased game delay. Best case scenario someone drops a pallet on you triggers spirit fury and you down them anyway.
same prediction.
Enduring spirit fury takes a while to build-up. Running enduring spirit fury now is no different than what it will be post-change. 5th hit will not occur vs good survivor players. it will be funny though for casual games. might happen here and there.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
- It probably should be on the fourth hit and Legions base speed increased to 5.4 m/s.
- Survivors being afraid to mend immediately is a good thing for Legions.
i think 4th hit is gonna be add-on. My guess is either cold study or frank tape. Dev always under-cut killer's base-kit because of add-ons. It forces killers to use add-ons.
Survivor are going moan about legion add-on, saying they over-buffed legion like with wraith.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2872556#Comment_2872556
They didn't even take away the power reset if you hit a survivor with a normal m1.
Nothing will change unless one of the addons gives some kind of healing denial or insta down.
Yeah it is amazing how you get punished for using stalk by people bodyblocking the hook thus removing stalking entirely.
Thanks to this march 28 mmr, it feels like you just face baby survivors. perhaps now I understand better why people say killer is fine. yeah if your facing these player that don't get how to play the game, every killer is great. The killers are also playing the game very poorly. dev balance is related to these players. sigh
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2872774#Comment_2872774
Legion at first used to move at 132%, then in patch 2.7.0 it got reduced to 125%, after a while it got changed to 130%.
really? I thought it was 125% than they weakened 120, than reverted it but changed his special attack->basic attack removing stbfl and sloppy butcher. Its not even revert than. Its just straight-worse. moving at 142% was on first hit is better than scaling m/s.
Either way, I remember running mural sketch book and susie tape back in the day with sloppy butcher & thanophobia. I also remember playing m&a+stbfl with cold dirt+joey tape. that was a funny build. The days where legion actually had builds. I guess you could say legion changes are also pretty safe.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2872396#Comment_2872396
Even now being the worst Killer Leg is pretty popular
he was never worst to begin with. He just was not good because he has no gameplay at safe loops like most m1 killers. The skill behind feral frenzy is being able to estimate distances between duration+lunge. Without duration add-ons, the distance is about 12 meters between each survivor, so effectively, survivor need to be very close to each other to chains hit, but with duration add-ons, that increases to around 15 meters or so. The effective travel distance is more like 40-60 meters but this is hard to say because both survivors and the killer are moving.
Fun fact: Legion used to move at 125% when he was released and there used to be a green add-on called Susie mixtape that increased his movement speed by 10%. Yellow add-on was 5% but I do not remember the name.
Most of legion changes are just reverts nerfed from 3 years ago.
4->3 second is revert. it used to be 3 second
m/s increase per hit is revert to old add-ons they weakened, i.e Susie mixtape
The major buff they're getting is that legion can down people in 5 hits. The issue is that survivor can just camp pallets and stun him when he is at his 4th hit therefore denying the mechanic altogether.
They're also nerfing his cooldown add-on: Cold Dirt & Joey mixtape. Just very safe changes overall.
At least they're not as safe as Ghostface changes which are ultra-safe to the point that no one will even notice what changed.
Oh well, All that is left to do is await PTB.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871175#Comment_2871175
He really does not need that. I am playing with him a lot. It would be imposible to play against him without 3 hits. His tentacle is so strong. That's why i am thinking he is okey.
I just wanna better zombie AI. His zombies are braindead.
major buffs on ghostface you say?
BVHR: Increased expose timer by 15 seconds and removed ability to break ghostface out of stealth... when marked.
I don't think they realize that marking people is incredibly difficult in outdoor maps in first places against competent survivors.... and that increase expose timer does abosolute nothing because ghostface when stalking always 99's his stalk. so much for major changes.
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@dbd900bach said:
However exposed survivors can't expose Ghostface. I find the changes really good quality of life updates that Ghosty needed and the new add-on that speeds him up by 10% has a ton of potential.
Not only can you now blitz survivors if stalk them from a close enough range, you now have an on demand speed boost if you 99 survivors stalk meter.
it is for 5 seconds.... 5 seconds is almost nothing.
Legion changes are great. ghostface changes might as well be QOL.
Maybe add-on for ghostface are really good?
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i thought they're just implementing backfill improvements because apparently it just finds people randomly for lobby dodging. the other aspect they said they're improving is disconnects & ping. if your able to play near 2 servers.
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they already tried buffing consistency and lifespan with Old undying. survivor's moan about it. If you want improve hexes to be more consistent, than just bring back old undying.
What I find funny about the whole survivor complaining about old undying is that they said cleansing multiple hexes up to max of 4 times was not fine but apparently, its fine for the killer to have to cleanse hexes an unlimited amount of times. explain that logic.
I also do not think that Circle of healing will receive any future changes purely because the other boon perks are not really used much at all. If they did make COH ineffective, than boon mechanic as whole would be largely irrelevant.
Dev also like to go by stats. I highly doubt that COH is overperforming statistically compare to other meta survivor perks like DH/BT/DS etc. Currently, I see dead hard on almost every survivor on nearly every match while COH on average is used by like 1 survivor, maybe 2, sometimes none.
Its also been like 5 months since its release. Compare to say Mettle of man, Mettle of man was changed 3 months after its release. If it was going to get changed, it would been changed already by now.
Only thing I'm curious about in regards to boons is whether they will make boons that mirror closely to killer hexes. For example, Killers have hexes like chase-oriented hexes like blood favor, crowd control, devour hope with instant downs. they also have hexes that affect generators like lullaby and ruin.
I'm curious if they'll make a boon that automatically progresses generators that are not being worked by 0.25 c/s or boons that like counter instant down, such as grants endurance effect if exposed.
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its been 6 straight months of negative killers changes.
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I was using starling feather+pinky finger because I hated the cooldown after throwing, it prevents me from having follow-up m1 hits at times. they buff the add-on that I can't use anymore. feelsbadman
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868918#Comment_2868918
Why not? You think the killer's gonna get max value on it every time? Blocked gens, which Dead Man's Switch creates, don't even get hit by Pain Resonance. Pain Resonance has exactly the same problem with Pop where the gen gets done before you can regress it, and then you're forced to use it on a gen that's at 2% done. And you're not even pulling off the combo multiple times in a match, unless the survivors just keep on and keep on giving you hooks quick and easy. If you play killer, you're well aware that killer gets nothing in the base game for hooking survivors, not until they're dead. So why is it that any time a decent perk combo comes up, that encourages and rewards multiple chases and multiple hooks, nobody likes the idea?
your reading into survivor main mentality too much. They want killers to go for many hooks but lose the game regardless of how well the killer played chases and disregarding their gameplay in the chases. after that, you have survivor complaining about "why u tunnel mr killer main?".
this perk not first combo either to reward killers players for winning chases/getting hits.
sloppy butcher+thanotophobia was first, nobody uses it though besides freddy until they erased him and both perks.
old ruin+pop goes weasel was second
undying+new ruin was third
franklin+hoarder was pinhead special
pain resonance+dms is new one.
their track record shows that they mostly erase killer perks that reward hooking. For me, it has personally developed a use it till you lose it mentality with the game.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I've had to stop using them. They're like hexes but worse. You can't use them if they're in bad spots, but at least with hexes the survivors actually have to cleanse them for you to not get to use your perk. Scourge Hooks perks are a complete waste a lot of the time. You'll get 0-1 uses of them the entire match. So why not just put them on all hooks? Why only 4 and always with bad RNG?
Give me an actual counterargument. The effects of scourge hook perks are never THAT strong, so that's not an issue. People say scourge hook perks encourage killers to camp because they're only in certain areas, so putting them everywhere would only discourage camping. And I've said this before and I'll say it again: It you're against scourge hooks on all hooks, you're saying that the killer should only be able to use their perk sometimes, not all the time, even though they've equipped the perk and put the work in. And if your reasoning isn't that, then what is it?
I really think scourge hooks on all hooks would be a healthy change for the game. It wouldn't be OP at low levels because the killer probably isn't good either. It wouldn't be OP against any survivors that are good. It wouldn't even benefit the killers at the highest level in which gen scourge hook perks are meme tier anyway. It would just help those middle ground killers have an actual useful perk instead of humoring something that isn't gonna get them any wins. And who knows? Maybe I'm wrong, and scourge hooks on all hooks would make those perks viable?
I think dev do think they're that strong and game-changing hence 4 limit. can't have killers getting a mini pop goes weasel reward per hook. can we? they could increase amount from 4->6. that would help. they feel like rework to hexes and obsession perks to reduce RNG only to re-add rng through hook spawns. At least perk does not disappear from entire game, silver lining.
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@Blueberry said:
Well for a few reasons:
- Survivors control too much of her power. Not even speaking is terms of her power level here but simply from a fun stand point. It isn't fun when the survivors are the ones that get to dictate whether or not you get to even use your ability or if you just get to play a loopable m1 killer all game. That much control over whether she gets to use her power isn't good design.
- She's extremely loopable with no counter play if the survivors don't cleanse. Yes they are 1 hit down, but that only matters if the survivors aren't good at looping. So you're left in this position where you're just hoping the survivors are bad...that's not fun. There are more than enough pallets to throw them all early and still have the gates open before you run out.
- Survivors don't have enough incentive to cleanse. If you're a good survivor you don't care about being 1 hit down with how safe loops are and numerous pallets are.
- She's extremely susceptible to being gen rushed even more than most killers..who are already getting gen rushed hard. It's just even more exacerbated on her when the survivors don't have to waste any time on healing and how much extra time she wastes to get them infected. She's just exceptionally inefficient when it comes to time. They have nothing to do but sit on gens.
- Even in the case where you do get them cleansing and you can get faster downs, all those faster downs aren't really faster when you look at the extra time you wasted getting them infected, going out of your way to pick up a fountain, and time you gave them on gens by them not having to actually heal. You're essentially just giving up time early to get it back later and coming out more or less just even, maybe even in the negative. This only actually ends up better when you can snowball from it with a multi slug and that realistically isn't happening against good survivors.
- Her corrupt purge forces you to respect all pallets making an extremely loopable killer even more loopable. The slow travel time and high arc of her vomit is also quite easy to avoid if you know how to loop and hug walls.
- Finally the server ping really destroys her vomit. You will get lots of time you receive the hit notification of her vomit but it doesn't actually damage or infect them. It's quite irritating.
There needs to be more of a danger to refusing to cleanse while fully infected.
-Maybe momentary pauses when you vomit to making looping more dangerous or a small like 4m TR reduction to Plague for each survivor fully infected. Just spitballing ideas here.
There also needs to be more time efficiency on her corrupt purge acquisition.
-Allow her to collect her pools remotely from anywhere, just give her a momentary stand still to channel it wherever she's at.
few reasons, sounds like long laundry list of them.
The interesting part about #5 is that survivor not healing is survivor's playing at their absolute strongest. it really highlight how much weaker the other m1 killers are with second chance health states.
In regards #6, I just wish they unnerfed her add-ons. did they really have to nerf rubbing oil & worship tablet to make corrupt puke weaker. slow wind-up really hurts : (
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2866684#Comment_2866684
Exactly,this is where camping and tunneling comes into play that gives you the edge as an m1 killer.
I do not think they gives edge. camping by itself at best gives one kill. on many killers that have no instant down capacity/low cooldown recovery, you can get 0 kills by product of survivor skill in bodyblocking & hook trading.
M1 killers are also the worst tunnelers because they're so weak at the chase in respect to tilesets of this game that you can physically loop them for nearly 5 generators by just going by dropping safe pallets. Great example of that is Zubat at 5:25. He tried playing a safe pallet on Racid Abattoir. Racid Abattoir is a farm map similar to Fracture cowshed. these farm maps have among the highest escape rate for very good reason. Its because all pallets are very safe. Survivors have to make mistake to go down. If your good at survivor, you do not make many basic loop mistakes so getting chased for long time is expected outcome.
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Didn't Dowsey comment and say she was A-S tier? That one made me smile.
Umbra comment summarizes m1 killers pretty well at 15:20:
"Its just that I think that some low tier killers are so one dimensional that they're straight up less engaging, like there is just less things to do where sometimes only option is to hold-w for 3 minutes. I would rather take a nap".
I completely agree with that sentiment. I would say that low-tier killers just lack skill expression so they are not interesting to play because your actions as a player have no impact on the match outcome.
this applies to anti-loops as well. whats the point landing 100% of your nemesis whips if everyone has 3 health+4 extra health states against it, the game outcome will be the same as missing half of them.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2866357#Comment_2866357
Overall agreed. I disagree with in the idea that "this just wins if you 3-gen", as I think 3-genning is severely overrated. I've let my reasoning behind that be known in the recent discussion called "Call of Brine". There's also counterplay to Bamboozle even, because if you see that the killer is going for a window vault, or you can predict that he's gonna, you can just hold forward to the next loop. That counters Hillbilly, Leatherface, and Wraith a lot when they use Bamboozle. And yes, Myers is overall a pretty boring killer to play against. With him and Ghost Face both, they just stare at you and get instadowns. Not very engaging for either side.
Well for other killers, vaulting windows is still slower so moving loops is pretty good. For him, its just opportunity for him to mindgame you at a window. I do not think 3 generator are viable way to win in DBD. Even if they were, they'd be pretty unhealthy. Its more that myer's early game is somewhat poor such that he just loses a lot of generators for using inf t3(If the team is remotely good). He just wind-up being at 1-2 generators with a 3 gen by product of the add-on. Because his T3 is not much threat to loop, He just end up being as I said... a camping machine for hooks with instant down. insidious leatherface 2.0 gameplay.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2866085#Comment_2866085
And increased movement speed and vaulting, especially with Bamboozle and/or PWYF which are popular on him.
J.Myers+Hairbow+Bamboozle is the build I use for Myers. He only has control over windows. I'd say bamboozle is generally the perk that people use to defend myer is saying he is not the worst base-kit killer. I'd say playing against it is kinda boring because it makes you not want to greed window loops as survivor and just do safe loops around pallets and shift+W.
a large majority of window loops are fair and have mindgames to them. This is only good for the previously badly balanced windows of DBD that no longer exist, though very few remain.
scratch mirror is weird. All you do against scratch mirror is heal under pallets because he sucks at loops. he is so slow that you can loop around pallets like 10+ times before ever putting down the pallet. Ironically, Self-care is like S-tier perk against this. Most people just camp hooks with it. You can run a nemesis+pwyf build with it to actually play the game with myers, but I do not even know why myer has tier 1 to begin with for how bad this is without those perks.
Vanity mirror+dead rabbit is kinda a meme, just basic m1 killer. Its stronger Amanda letter due to no m/s penalties from crouching
Tuft of hair is 3 generator add-on. the penalties of longer stalking are basically irrelevant if your just camping last 3 generators. Its overall not really good because part of myer's strength is his ability to 99 his stalk and than instantly pop his instant down. in the later part of the game, this is just insidious leatherface 2.0.
J.Myers+Tombstone piece is strong version of myer that lame to play against. Lockers are not only counter to getting mori. Holding generator is counter. Cleansing totem is a counter. Spamming fast vaulting pallets can counter it. The aribitary problem is that this add-on either auto-win chases indirectly by survivor doing stupid things. The drawback of add-on is that he loses expose ability. Overall this add-on is just escape T2 m1 killer as 3vs1 challenge.
I don't think any of myer's versions are interesting to play against. they're all boring for different reasons. The default is pallet break simulator. One of them is camping machine. 2 of them are just part of joke that stealth killers are. The last one is challenge but overall not a very interesting one.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2865240#Comment_2865240
I thought about this for while. What killer needs?
- Small and less safe maps - Great buff for Nurse.
- Stronger perks - Great buff for Nurse.
- Dead Hard rework - Great buff for Nurse.
- CoH nerf - This would not affect Nurse, she does not care if you heal or not. She will get you down maybe 10 seconds longer.
- Generator nerfs - Great buff for Nurse.
- Totems spawns should change, survivors are finding them so easyly - Great buff for Nurse.
See? Except CoH, all of changes will make Nurse stronger. And she is already strongest killer in game without counterplay. Breaking LoS and Dead Hard is your only options and if they buff killers with this changes, game will be unplayable against Nurse. I think she was fine for 2016 - 2017 DbD while we had infinities. But not anymore. She should go with other bad designs (CoH, Dead Hard, big maps, God pallets etc.)
Killers are weak because the survivor ask for them to be weak. If survivor asked for them to be strong, than killers would be strong.
Counter-points
Small and less safe maps - Nurse has mobility therefore rendering big maps irrelevant, Nurse ignores all loop design in the game, You can make every map have 100 pallets and nurse will not care.
Stronger perks - All killers benefit equally from strong perks, Nurse included.
Dead hard - Dead hard for distance hurts all killers equally by extending chases.
Circle of healing - Nurse has mobility to hit survivor after they sprint burst, Health states are not a concern for nurse. Gap-closing are 2nd strongest way to render healing ineffective(Instant down is #1)
Generator nerfs - Fast generators are just as difficult for nurse to play against as they are for other killers.
Totem spawns - Longer Ruin, Devour hope, NOED etc. makes all hexes stronger for all killers.
Better way to fix totem spawn is to just revert hex:undying. Totems are suppose to be easy to find, but its suppose to be time consuming to remove totems. 2 totems is not enough of time investment, way too easy to break all totems and remove perks slots from killer.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2864574#Comment_2864574
Sure, absolutely. But it's a UR, and we don't get to know which map we're going to.
impaling wire is purple add-on. its pretty useless. the chains that spawns are easy to dodge. His box was never impressive vs actual efficient teams. It just gave him rewards for hooking people. He's been a bad killer since the start. People overhyped his enginner fang+iri lament figure(Otz) So he got nerfed.
@luvcraft You were probably at higher MMR as Cenobite where you were unable to compete at that level. If you keep playing, you'll probably lower your MMR until you can compete with him by beating worse survivor players.
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she is not S-tier for me because I feel like I can 1vs1 spirit for long time, somewhat consistently. I'd say on average, if spirit commit to me, its like 3 gen chase on average. I'd say it is almost possible to do 5 gen chases against her. I'd say she is around average(B), but is A-tier if she uses DCB+MDR. Its certainly harder to loop her with those. There is more of guessing game with faster speed. I like playing against MDR spirit now, but I do not like DCB as much. It makes her more braindead with less mindgame potencial. I think I prefer old Stridor spirit than the add-on. Stridor, you can manipulate sounds, Killer instinct, not so much.
Few other comments I can make around tier-list.
I think doctor is underrated in his tier list because when you look all other killers in doctor's tier, They have very little chase to no chase potential. If they have any chase potencial, its pretty easy to counter them often just by dropping pallets a bit sooner etc. A lot of killer in C-tier are practically 5 gen chase possible in about 80% of maps. doctor is pretty tough to 5 gen chase. He has gameplay at every loop but he is ultimately slow at what he does. I would label killer that are slow at what they do in average tier. He wins chases, He just does not win them quickly.
I think bubba and Oni underrated/overrated killers. If you look at all b-tier killers, B-tier are able to win chases but they win chases slowly, too slow for the game standard. Oni can win chases at very good/100% consistency when he get demon form. He is likely to get 1 down if per demon form he gets assuming Oni player is good. He just get demon form slowly. very slowly. Its too slow for game tempo. Oni is suppose to slug players so he can get more value out of demon but dev punish Oni for slugging and punish for just about any action he does. While his skill-ceiling is very high, He is not reward for it at all. In modern day, I'd compare him to unrewarding blight, similar to how many players compare curving billy to unrewarding blight.
Bubba is underrated in comparison to tier list. His instant down is easily accessible unlike Oni. His skill-floor is pretty low if your entire objective is to walk someone 2 meter away and rev chainsaw for instant down and many people discredit his difficult by saying you can 4k through facecamping, but strong bubba players do not rev chainsaws within 2 meters. They rev chainsaws from 15+ meters and time their charges such that they hit the survivor on very last swing of chainsaw, perfectly timing the distance of it every single time while also taking account windows & tight curves. This gives deceptively average-high skill-ceiling.
Otz says that nemesis has fastest pallet break and that is simply not true. Bubba has fastest pallet break in the game. He breaks pallet 1 second. For comparison, A normal pallet break is 2.5 seconds. To break pallets in 1 second, That is brutal strength at 150%! Nemesis is 2.5 and he has 0.35 wind-up time. Its just nothing in comparison. He has rev for 2 seconds but as I stated above statement, bubba rev chainsaws well-advance as they curve around pallets taking into account their slowdown. The instant down capacity removes bodyblock potential, entirely skips dead hard as a perk, neutralizes effectiveness of Borrow time and overall pierces health states like butter where COH is mild time-waste.
I'd say for all intensive purposes, Bubba is most practical and most powerful instant down killer. I would switch Oni & Bubba position in tier list. He is last of good instant downs killers that the game has and if he was to change like some survivor main posts request, There would not be a single solid instant down killer choice left for killers.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2862867#Comment_2862867
Git gud as they say
Clearly, you never fought Radiant Markoth before.
Also, Nurse is the best killer in the game, kill rates can't decide things
"Don't use only these stats to make conclusions" as the devs say.
ALSO WHEN THE [BAD WORD] DID I SAY TRICKSTER IS A GOOD KILLER
never said nurse is weak. I meant that most players do not do well with her or trickster because their power takes a lot of mechanical skill to execute to be remotely effective. Lowering knife count is like giving nurse 1 blink. it would cripple his power.
He gets LOS because when he enters throwing mode, He moves at 96%-92% which is 4%-8% slower than the survivor, this is why High-walls counter him and allow you to infinity LOS him. A common example for when this happens is main event where trickster is forced into throwing mode for long time.
The solution is not to make him 4.6. The solution is to make him 4.2-4.4(105%-110%) in throwing mode so that LOS him in throwing mode is harder/not possible.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2862838#Comment_2862838
...what?
Average players would be able to hit enough to not notice much.
he is one of two killers to have below 50% kill-rate. He is par with nurse kill-rates. They're not going nerf him. If anything he needs buff to throwing mode but whatever.
Its totally possible to dodge his knifes. git gud as they say.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2862401#Comment_2862401
I see what you feel about Plague. She does feel janky at times. I still get puke validated which is frustrating.
She is underpowered.
Her green vommit->m1 is clunky because of hit validation on her power and the fact that she gets slowed down by charging up her puke too much. The add-ons that increase infection rate are too low in numbers to compensate hit validation in isolation. You need both which is a problem.
Her corrupt puke is easy to LOS because add-on that helped her counter LOS breaks got nerfed. Those being Rubbing Oil & Worship tablet. Its far too easy to use tight wall looping to force plague to walk through a pallet and take hit+pallet stun to remove ability or to simply not give any sight advantage to flamethrower fire.
As per usual, what is suppose to be her "Strongest form" is not strong, Too much counter-play/survivor control. Classic BVHR
They need A) Fix server validation on puke or B) Return her 100% infection-rate add-on, Ideally both. She also needs buff on corrupt puke. Buffing Rubbing Oil OR Worship tablet to old values would help her corrupt puke tremendously against strong looping.
She is so close to being fluid good killer. very sad.
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@Krazzik said:
People keep saying that Sprint Burst is stronger then Dead Hard but like why does no one use it and everyone uses Dead Hard then?
If Sprint Burst becomes meta then Fearmonger can just become meta to counter it.
that first sentence is something I would say.
this is just hutch, but I have feeling that new perk that would replace dead hard if dead hard was weakened is Lithe. The reason why I think that is that Lithe allows survivors to utilize unsafe pallets and make those pallet safe by sliding them at correct time therefore chaining unsafe tiles into safe tiles.
You can still get hold-W benefits of sprint burst with Lithe if you can find a window that is facing a good direction when you vault it and Lithe does not require you to manage your exhaustion. Its zero time-waste for potential time-waste from killer. It is really reliable considering that every map has pallets to slide over with possibility to use windows. If only it had on/off button.
Its what made sprint burst not as meta. Sprint burst is not time efficient. What made sprint burst meta in the past was that exhaustion recovered while running. This meant that you could waste sprint burst, be on cooldown but still get exhaust benefit from sprint burst by just looping killer long enough. it made perk as reliable as dead hard. It is no longer as reliable post-change.
@Topic
Dead hard is reliable perk that affects all killers equally. For many killers, dead hard for distance has no counter-play and it is effectively pseudo 3rd health state from dash aspect alone. It has 0 time investment for survivor but offers big time pay-off for extending chases via looping & greeding pallets/windows. Dead hard also promotes genrushing because the risk of being injured is not as high. Dead hard is at its strongest at the start of the game where the killer is at its weakest as all pallets are on the map and none of them have been used.
I'm curious to what they will do to make dead hard worse and whether they will improve another exhaustion to take its place.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2861489#Comment_2861489
Just shows that you dont really have an idea how strong it would be...
@Topic:
You cannot ######### around with Movement Speed too much. We got a Movement Speed-Boon and this is super-weak, because it has to be weak, otherwise it would be broken (and the Perk will never be able to be buffed).
A Hex-Totem which grants Movement Speed would be the same, you would make it so weak that you will never use it. So 7% is way too much, with the 4% from NOED most Loops become laughable, let alone 7%.
I would rather not have a Perk which has to be super-weak because it would be broken otherwise without any chance of getting buffed.
noed by itself, 4% is not that strong. Many killers get bloodlust 1 in a chase. Bloodlust 1 itself is not very impactful.
NOED+Bloodlust 1 is powerful. You are hitting thresholds of movement speed where its making some loops that were originally safe into unsafe territory.
a totem perk that gives 5%-7% speed is probably not really game-breaking, but once you start factor in that it improves bloodlust 1 into bloodlust 2 in efficient time window of 15 seconds, your getting like 12% speed boost, almost bloodlust 3 from bloodlust 1.
imagine myers with that. 127% instant down myer after 15 seconds of a chase.
in general, movement speed is not good stat to play on because its not interesting form of gameplay. Anyone can play killer if they just won through movement speed. A few killer win through movement speed like Old freddy snares, clown bottles etc. Making every killer win through movement speed is not very skill expressive. It is like ok on couple but not everyone.
Its more interesting when the killer does not win through movement speed but wins by customized ability that helps them win a chase. Blight moves at 230% m/s in blight charge, much faster than these numbers but he has to use skills into mastering the new movement to win chase.
conclusion, do not buff movement speed. buff abilities. they're more skill expressive than flat movement speed.
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@Trickstom said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2860169#Comment_2860169
I don't think it's even close to being OP, here's why:
- The effects ends almost immediately when a chase starts, so the movement speed will not be a problem when a chase begins.
- The effects also ends when you damage a survivor by any means, so ranged killers will not being able to exploit the movement speed effect by damaging a survivor on long distances.
- Killers that have a lullaby (Huntress and Trickster), will not benefit from the Undetectable Status Effect.
- The aura reading it's just 6 seconds and only show survivors doing objective actions. The healing/healed actions can be replaced by 'Opening exit gates'.
The purpose of the rework is just to make your way to a chase easier. The movement speed will help you against 'Shift+W' and on big maps, so if a survivor sees you far away and starts running before you get close to him, you at least won't lose too much distance going after him.
And again, as the perk effects only persist for a maximum of 1.5 seconds, when a chase actually starts, your movement speed will be lost. In conclusion, the movement speed is just to help you on big maps, get to objectives (gens and exit gates) and chases faster.
no. it will just make killer moonwalk(look on floor so the chase never starts) to abuse the perk like old legion mending exploit.
Trail of torment gives permanent undetectable but it shows what generator the killer has kicked so you know exactly when killer is undetectable to avoid stealth hits. This perk is like BBQ+Trail of torment+PWYF in one perk. They cannot even remove aura reading for Trail of torment for safety reasons. good luck putting this perk in the game is 10x better version of trail of torment.
The change Fugitive chase needs is to make tokens reduce TR in general instead only in a chase but they'll never do that. that is too unsafe for a perk. they'll keep safe version.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857200#Comment_2857200
I don't know how people can even say they're easy to use. If you play them in the most basic way, then sure you can beat some bad solos. But Wraith and Freddy have a much higher skill ceiling than that when it comes to adapting in trying to beat those better teams. Pre-nerf Wraith and Freddy would get squashed like bugs by today's meta, just as they did at the time they were nerfed! You know what I think? How's Wraith gonna hit you if you just abuse windows and abuse his slowdown coming out of cloak? How's Freddy gonna hit you if you just drop the pallet instead of letting him set up 4 snares at your loop? Those killers did require a bit of brainpower, and so did their counterplay, but those survivors couldn't even be bothered to learn.
they don't care about the better teams. While pre-nerf freddy was mechanically simple to play, He did take skill to win against better teams. M1 killers are balanced new players, player that cannot loop hence why most of them weak.
Facing the same killer is by product of bad killer balance. Kill-rate balancing in a nutshell. Who knows, perhaps they just pick winners and losers killers based off the killers that dev like to play against?
Major respect to Mclean for making blight a strong and fun killer.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2848550#Comment_2848550
The thing with the tiers is that they can choose whatever status effects or passives they give, they can even create add-ons to change those effects. The difference from Devour Hope is that it's a killer base kit not a perk that you can lose forever in 20 seconds so even if someone is only stalked for tier 1 there's still a permanent bonus that you get when interacting with them or not, it depends on what the bonus is. Also with tiers it has the added benefit of not needing to commit to fully stalking them, whatever bit of stalking you do is already helping you. You're simultaneously playing the moment to moment game and for the long game. I don't intend for stalk tiers to disapear or regress. the final stalk tier should a little longer sure because the benefit is 1 shot downs till the survivor is out of the match and that should take a while to get unless you get very lucky and manage to stalk someone to max tier in 1 go. Also GF should work with an Obsession.
I don't want GF to be a 1 shot Monster, that's why the 1 shot still only applies when fully stalked, i want to give GF something before he can 1 shot, cause all he has now is 2 M1's with alot of effort or a lucky 1 shot, i want to give him consistant progress. I want GF to be a better M1 killer, granted i know it won't fully work cause the game has never been M1 friendly, but this is a way to change GF to a truer stalker killer without giving some weird power that doesn't make much sense for a Normal Human Killer, how Wraith went from human to being able to turn invisible and using sound to do so is not something that will fit GF or Pig, hence why they're the most human like killer, alongside some others like Legion.
The reasons i think the stealth portion of Nighshroud should force him to crouch and not move any faster than 110% are that stalking someone should definetly give you better tracking, when you stalk someone you're supposed to know how they act right? So better tracking should definetly be a reward for stalking them, then the whole aspect of stealth is to be concealed, you won't look particularly stealthy if you are standing and walking normally. You're only ever using crouching to avoid detection because you are either trying to stalk or trying a mindgame. Since i propose both abilities are seperate you no longer need to use crouching to avoid detection and be able to keep stalking, thus you main use for crouching is to attack. Stealth and stalk tiers are also meant to work together, someone who is fully stalked might not even be aware of your TR as one of my suggestions was to have a TR type effect, which again the tier effects can be whatever, there's plenty to choose but the two main aspects should be: give GF better information and create confusion for each survivor player.
Giving GF a Dash would be the same as playing old Spirit, Survivors wouldn't be able to react and what tracking would GF have while dashing? You would either be OP cause you don't give survivors a chance or you'd lose the survivors and the dash would be more of a scare tactic like Pyramid Head's Punishment of the Damned where you're better off faking it and follow with the M1. Plus the punishment for missused Dash would be great aswell and you're still basing his power on not being seen, so if you're seen you immediatly stop stalking and you also can't go for the Dash.
You're leaving GF in the exact same spot he is at right now, he either gets the full stalk or he doesn't, the only change you're making is that getting the hit after marking someone might be easier. Where i propose to seperate stalking and stealth so that even when stealth fails, and it will fail alot, you're still getting something to help you instead of not having anything. Will survivors adapt? Ofc they will that's exactly why i want the Paranoia tiers to actually affect the players aswell and not just the characters. That's why i suggested they record voice lines for GF to use against stalked survivors, so the players have random audio cues, hear the TR, etc to give the GF player a chance of catching people off-guard when stealth is on cooldown.
"The reasons i think the stealth portion of Nighshroud should force him to crouch and not move any faster than 110%"
There is very good reason to why ghostface does not suffer movement speed penalties while in nightshroud. Its because survivor would never want to break ghostface out of nightshroud at 110%. It would actively be detrimental to break out ghostface as survivor out of nightshroud at 110%. It does not matter if the survivor is permanently exposed when your 110% m/s m1.
The ghostface moving at 110% will not be able hit anyone on like 80% of the maps even if he exposed everyone permanently.
"I want GF to be a better M1 killer"
Crouching & red glow manipulation is somewhat niche but important skill for ghostface. Removing freedom to crouch when required will not improve ghostface's M1 game. It will make it worse.
"I don't want GF to be a 1 shot Monster"
By giving ghostface permanent stalking 1 shot exposed, He would be no different than Tuft of hair Myers who is 1 shot monster. A tier system for stalking such as Evil within 1/2/3 forces the player to commit to stalking. You get nothing for being 50% ev1 or ev2. You only get rewarded by tier systems once the tier is complete.
"You're leaving GF in the exact same spot he is at right now, he either gets the full stalk or he doesn't, the only change you're making is that getting the hit after marking someone might be easier.
Ghostface is my favorite stealth killer. Stalking with ghostface is suppose to opportunistic. Its not suppose to be mandatory like myer's ev1/ev2/ev3. He doesn't drastic changes to be effective. He already has 3 passives, Exposed, Undetectable and Killer instinct. He does not need paranoid tiers to add more passives and status effects to his ability.
He just needs reliability. The issue with current ghostface is that there are not many good opportunities where stalking is better than just hitting the survivor. Its too unreliable. Faster stalking would give him reliability to inflict exposed. A dash would help him confirm hits when he does expose. If shadow dash is like nurse blink, It would be 1 blink nurse at half distance with a 24 second cooldown . If its like spirit phase walk, It would be very short phase walk, like 1 second long to cross like 12 meters. Its only there to gap-close distance between stalking and hitting someone who is nearby on a generator. There wouldn't be much benefit to canceling it as ghostface when leaning does not move at all when leaning. He is stationary. Maybe there could be add-ons that add 0.5 second to dash or add little bit of distance but he would still largely m1 all of the chase except opening part of the chase.
As I said in opening post, Ghostface is suppose to end the chase before the chase even begins. He is just not very effective at that function currently from his stalk being too situational.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2855883#Comment_2855883
Not giving survivors the boost seems reasonable to me. As far as it being instant, though, if that were the case it would be almost objectively better to just use the yellow gas all the time since it gives Clown the same relative speed difference as the slow down from the pink gas but he doesn’t have to hit a moving target with it. He would just pop a yellow cloud whenever he wanted midchase and get a boost, even possibly two or three boosts since I think they might stack.
Other things they might try to buff him a bit assuming he actually needs it (I don’t know what his official stats are like)
- Make the yellow and pink bottles have separate tokens so using one up doesn’t use the other up.
- Boost the speed increase and/or decrease of the gasses or the durations
- Make Clown the only 120% base speed killer in the game
- Combine the effects in one bottle, so there’s just one type of gas and survivors in a cloud are slowed and Clown in the same cloud is sped up. (They probably won’t do this one though, I think they like the idea of having two bottle you switch between to make it feel more tactical.)
why would it stack? throwing 3 purple bottles does not make you get slowed by 45%. only refreshes the hindered timer. Do not see why yellow would not do the same in regards to refresh haste timer. none of those changes are ever going happen.
They will just weaken pinky finger by making it not work with cheap gin bottle, like what they did with ir head & infantry belt. clown fixed /s
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@Blueberry said:
Team doesn't cleanse = she's just an extremely loopable m1 killer so just improve your looping skills.
Team does cleanse = You take advantage of her slow wind up and the arced travel time of projectiles meaning you hug walls tight and can crouch avoid the vomit. She's honestly quite easily loopable even with corrupt. She doesn't exert much map pressure so y'all shouldn't be pumping the gens out pretty quick when you don't have to worry about healing. Just make her waste a lot of time at loops by making her respect pallet drops (for the vomit over similar to Huntress or to simply not lose her power).
She's also just quite predictable at loops because of how tall she is. It makes it much harder to mind game as her.
blueberry, what add-ons do you think are best for plague now a days? Iridescent seal+Devotte amulet feels like it gives the most automatic corrupt pukes throughout the match but it feels like corrupt puke feels too easy from hugging corners.
Incensed Ointment+Emetic potion feels like quickest way to apply broken but I really feel the wind-up slowdown without rubbing oil. Rubbing Oil+Vile Emetic really helps for hugging corners on corrupt puke but the nerf to rubbing oil's wind-up speed and the rework of vile emetic really feels like plague is forced to specialize in either corrupt puke builds or sickness builds.
I really wish rubbing oil was 100% and the Vile emetic stayed the same 100% sickness increase because it allowed plague to be a jack of all trades. The annoying server validation on her puke is really annoying as well :/
What are your thought of the best add-ons for plague?
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2855277#Comment_2855277
It was a significantly more powerful add-on than any of his other add-ons and almost any other add-on in the game in terms of increasing Clowns kill rate. You even said yourself, everybody who could use it did use it because it was so powerful. It’s not the same as weakening his base kit because that red add-on isn’t part of his base kit.
Clown’s base kit being too weak is a separate issue from whether or not a specific add-on is way out of whack with all the other add-ons. Picture for example if that add-on were left alone and then, because Clown wasn’t good without it, they actually buffed Clown’s base ability. Then you’d have a killer who was pretty good without it but broken with it.
His base kit is its own thing, it could probably use another slight buff. But that add-on needed adjustment too all on its own.
Did you not read my first post carefully? I said that using pinky finger every game is reducing his base-kit power-level. Its like dead hard for survivor. Almost all survivor players utilize dead hard as exhaustion perk, therefore dead hard is base-kit mechanic for survivor because it is utilized every single game for many survivor players. Weakening dead hard is weaken survivor as a whole.
Clown's base-kit being weak is off-set by pinky finger. By allowing killer to use pinky finger, They're buffing clown base-kit by themselves.
You still dodge the question and did not explain what is out of whack. They already did buff clown's base ability in his rework. They lowered his reload and gave yellow bottles. It did nothing. he did not become broken.
Add-on are become connected to the base-kit for higher MMR because people have played the game for prologue period of time, gotten past the grind and now actively use items/add-on on killers. How well they play the killer with said items/add-on on said killer is depended on their skill and overall balance(strength) of said killer/items.
"they actually buffed Clown’s base ability. Then you’d have a killer who was pretty good without it but broken with it."
I would like to point out that a lot of killers that end up being strong have decent base-kits and strong add-ons to company their base-kit. See pre-nerf spirit. Strong base-kit, Mother daughter ring makes her "Broken" according to you people. Blight strong base-kit, Alchemist ring makes him "broken" according to community.
Now perhaps you could explain what is you find problematic when facing clown with this add-on instead of dodging the question.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2855215#Comment_2855215
I didn’t comment on Blight’s add-ons, I’m just commenting on Clown’s red add-on to say that it was, in fact, overpowered and deserved the nerf. “But survivors might be able to avoid it” or whatever doesn’t mean it’s not overpowered. Heck, you could make a similar argument about Blight and say if he “misses his rush then Alchemist Ring does nothing” but that obviously doesn’t make that add-on bad in any way.
can you explain what exactly is problematic about the add-on? Weakening his pinky finger add-on is weakening his base-kit for players that utilize pinky finger clown every single game. It might as well be base-kit to his ability.
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yes. His power gives free styptics.
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2851135#Comment_2851135
They feel clunky and like a waste of bottle most of the times.
yeah. they're pretty pointless. I stated that change day 1 when clown got reworked. He would be so much better at timing his speed boosts. survivor benefiting for killer using their power is very odd to say least.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2850198#Comment_2850198
Legion has what I'd call a secondary chase tool, in that he is able to keep a lot of people injured, potentially shortening chase. Still a terrible killer.
Pig's dash isn't great, but it's hardly irrelevant. You just (unfortunately) need to use addons to make it worthwhile. I play a bit of Pig here and there, and I often use it to force 50/50s in loops.
And scoring is far more bonkers than that. Just try Iri pipping on Myers, compared to say Wraith.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2850214#Comment_2850214
I played a fair bit of her (going to put her aside to see what BHVR do next, going back to learning Ghostface). I've also watched a lot of people playing her on stream.
What seems to fool survivors is that her size makes them underestimate the distance of her lunge.
Condemn is just going to be a problem mechanic (an insta mori at 0 hooks is impossible to balance), it should be Exposed with a mori at 2 hooks, and tweak the values up substantially.
What really lets me down is her terrible, janky and unreliable 'stealth'. That was what excited me about her (I'm a big fan of stealth killers, to the extent that I've made stealth builds for even the most unga bunga killers).
what in the world is secondary chase tool? He has pseudo exposed mechanic because he only needs a single hit to get a down but has no ability to confirm the final hit. I think you do not understand what I mean by all m1 killers fall under same blanket of effectiveness vs strong survivor players.
https://youtu.be/co9YMQl18lo?t=215Here's coconut video that perfectly illustrates my point for how most killers that ineffective abilities play out. game 1 is shorten between 3:30-4:51. game 2 is 5:07-13:33.
In coconuts words at 9:45-10:05 "we can barely get a single m1 in. On one person. it is all we need, a single m1 hit, How do you do it? How do you even hit them? How do you get a single M1 hit?" after chasing nea for minutes on end.
The answer is. You don't. Strong looping survivor make very little mistakes in the loops themselves such as that m1 killers(115%) do not really get m1 hits. You need survivor to make looping mistakes for you to be successful as killer. This is my point. That game on Ironwork of misery was 2 hook legion game. You see, only hits that legion ever got was with his ability and intentional body blocking. That is in a nutshell why people say Legion is weak.
There is strategy behind countering pig dash. I cannot be bothered to go into detail with it. What I am trying say conclusively is that anti-loop abilities are only way for killer to express any skill towards the game because those only times where killer get legit hits in a chase. The only time you get hit as survivor when your good is killer powers. Sadako is same as all other C-D lower tier killers. You cannot get better as killer against safe pallets if you have no method to outplay safe looping.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2850060#Comment_2850060
Yeah, but there's a case to be made that Sadako has fewer tools than all of the gutter tier killers. Even Legion gets a free health state+game delay and tracking. And Pig at least gets some RNG delay if she manages to down someone. Sadako has mobility for the sake of mobility, and that's it.
What are legion's chase tools? none. Pig's ambush dash is weak and irrelevant. My point is that gutter killers are just as effective as Sadako is. By that I mean that their powers have little to no impact on outcome of the match. The less than 5 hook result is the same for all of the killers during prime time. There is lack of skill-expression for the killer from having ineffective ability.
Its why I find RenAmaiya comment on Sadako priceless comedy.
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@[Deleted User] said:
If I play off-peak hours when matchmaking actually works, every Sadako I've faced has averaged under 5 hooks total for the entire match. It's a massacre. I've gone against her 5 times today and none of them have managed more than 1k. A couple got less than 3 hooks. I don't recall a killer being this weak in some time. Against a full lobby of decent multi-thousand hour survivors, she has next to nothing going for her.
I mean every m1 killer with no looping tools is less than 5 hooks. Its not like pig or whatever is gonna do better.
@danielmaster87 Danielmaster just need follow @RenAmamiya post. Just get good. Just learn Sadako blinks.