Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2958788#Comment_2958788
Seems to be more of a connection issue on your side if it happens consistently to you. From the server's perspective, those survivors did not get hit by projectiles BEFORE your information comes that they did get hit. If that is consistent, then your information is lagging behind. You cannot expect survivors to be punished if the killer has a bad connection to the server. That is the only reasonable explanation I can think of why it would consistently miss to the point that you only get 1 hook. I suck at Plague and face relatively strong survivors, the infection keeping them broken alone grants a huge advantage as it basically turns everyone into an instadown. I get an average of 7 hooks on Plague, which is, hook-wise, an average of 2 kills if I were to play efficient. Killwise, I mean, around 2 kills, possibly slightly less as I still suck at her.
Might wanna check up if your modem or provider is artificially slowing down your uploadspeed if your ping is fine.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2959095#Comment_2959095
I mean, 0 issues, really. Doc main and I have yet to have a moment where a survivor didnt scream when they should have. Nor do I really have scenario's where a survivor screamed too late. There have been a few scenario's where I think it shouldnt have been an unhook but the unhook still finished, which is easily explained by me having a minor lagspike. I think the hit validation is fine on both.
I have no issues with doctor's shock but have issues with plague's puke. survivor often scream but do not get infected. its extremely annoying. your lucky that you have no such problems on plague.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2960051#Comment_2960051
They've also been "looking into fixing" totem spawns for years and look at what's been done there, nothing.
Old undying was their best fix and I suggested that as a perk. it got a lot of complaints.
too good of fix I guess.
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you should prestige the characters that you use corresponding teachable perks.
For example, If you use Iron will as a perk on all your survivors, you should P3 Jake to Unlock Iron will at Tier 3. If your Jake is not P3 by end update, you will not have Jake's perk on the other survivors.
The killer is the same. Suppose you use Hex:Ruin,BBQ,Pain Resonance, Pop goes weasel on Leatherface. You must P3 Clown, Hag and Artist to use Ruin, PR and Pop. If all your killer are p0, You will have zero teachable perks from other killers when update to bloodweb happens.
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@ElleGreen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2956744#Comment_2956744
the dbd devs are kinda the worst
agree. evil dead game is super fun. cute post.
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peanut comment is little bit disconnected from community. Most players just want to keep use their powerful perks on either side.
The dev get a chance to "shake-up" the meta on every update but none of the perks end up being effective for winning the game/practically useful. The survivor perks in particular haven't changed in 5-6 years. When they release a perk that is practically useful, it just ends up receiving subsequent negative changes.
The other aspect is the idea that player itself has a choice in their own perks. The choice is a complete illusion. Survivors run perks to not die instantly and their perks slow down the killer objective. The killer's run generator-oriented perks to counter-act the survivor perks that waste the killer's time by making the survivor waste time on their objective. In the end nobody really has any perks because killer perks and survivor perks cancel each other out.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953613#Comment_2953613
I don’t disagree with any of that. That’s the problem. Every time they “fix” a killer it’s for the worse. A whole bunch of unnecessary nerfs and like 90% of the “buffs” they’ve done to killers like clown, pig, trapper ect we’re all so insignificant to where they were almost a complete waste of time. All of them could barely even be called buffs and many of them even came with nerfs. They need to go back to all those killers and actually buff them.
They need to go back to all those killers and actually buff them.
my point is that they already reviewed every killer listed and nothing changed. According to hackers/leaks, apparently, during the main day, there is like 20:1 ratio between survivor and killer and on off-hours, the ratio is 50:1. Pair that with the steam-chart statistics where the player-base has been decreasing from lack of killer players(long queues times).
Clearly the survivor acquiring base-kit borrow time seems like high priority than fixing the 20:1 survivor-killer ratio. geez I wonder how we could get these 20:1 survivor mains into playing killer. ~shrug~
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@tippy2k2 said:
Hello everyone,
I'm pretty sure I know the answer but I'm going to ask anyway because I'm irked and I want to vent...
https://twitter.com/tippy2k2/status/1526240074291093504
Can someone explain to me like I'm five how this Oni can go a literal 180 degrees like this? I'm assuming this is yet another case of BHVR forgetting that they develop the game for non-PC systems (hence why people can dodge my Oni if they take a slight step to the right because my oni can't flick 90 degrees, let alone do a full 180 flip around) but I'd appreciate it if someone can confirm this.
Edit: I see upon watching it again that it is more of a 90 degree flick instead as he evidently found a way to catch himself on the log to sling shot himself around but I stand by my complaint that BHVR needs to remember they develop a game on console too because you can't get Oni to flick that extreme on console
when dashing with Oni, if you look up in the sky, you can flick past 90 degree. The max I have ever flicked is 270°. Its an exploit for Oni but I used to not use it because its bug. Its just that.... without that exploit/bug, you can't use his dash properly at loops against strong players because his wind-up is as slow as billy and add-on that reduced it got nerfed.
So now I use it because without it, he's downright terrible against good survivors in his ability.
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@Blueberry said:
Biggest priority for needing improvements, no particularly order:
- Pig
- Trapper
- Clown
- Ghostface
- Freddy
- Sadako
- Myers
We could narrow it down to a tighter list but all of those need a lot of help. I mean much more than some miner tweaks or QoL, like significant improvements.
Most of the killer named on list were on petition for changes and did not receive a significant improvement, some were made worse.
Pig: Received a change on 5.3.0 to her add-ons, Overall nerfed Tamperer timer from 30->20, Crate of gears 33%-.25% and removed extra boxes add-ons, Basically nerfed all her game-slowdown which was only aspect that relevant in her kit while her chase is among the least effective of the killer cast even with strange collection of chase add-on.
Trapper: Received changes on 5.3.0. He got improved but it didn't solve many of his issues such as inability to use traps in chase(like artist or freddy), so no anti-loop/chase potential, SWF countering his ability like... calling out every single trap and the fact that he can't globally apply map pressure with traps because of ability for survivor save each other from traps..... just some of his many problems all of which force him to be camp heavy.
Freddy: Received negative changes in around may-june of 2021. honestly need revert but survivors hate him.
Clown: Received changes on 4.5.0, Added yellow bottle. the issue still remains for him that gas delay from yellow bottle disrupts his ability to time speed boosts when he wants them. weakened pinky finger after buffing it in 2018(?).
Myers: Receives changes on 5.3.0. He's still going to be Mori-bot with J.Myers+Purple tombstone similar to tamper timer pig without any other purpose.
Ghostface: Received recent changes, went about as good as you can expect. no real improvements.
Sadako: is seems to be only killer in which they're willing to improve significantly, still needs many more improvements to just about every element of her kit.
So every killer you listed, dev reviewed and decides no improvements are necessary. These are the very best versions your going get of these killers.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2952264#Comment_2952264
A fair Loop is a unsafe Loop. Which I actually wrote. But thanks for ignoring it. :^)
A Jungle Gym is not unsafe. You cannot Bloodlust it, unless you want to go into Bloodlust 3 and still spend quite a lot of time.
Buf if we look at the Car/Rubbish-Loop in front of the school in Badham (next to the Fence-Window, you will probably know which one I mean), this is a good example for a fair Loop. Both the Killer AND the Survivor can outplay each other here. But, once the Killer gets Bloodlust, the Survivor will get hit.
And IMO, the game should be balanced around Loops like that - a shitload of Pallets, almost all of them unsafe and only very, very few safe Pallets. But for this, Bloodlust would need to go.
When Bloodlust was disabled during a weekend, I played a lot of M1-Killers (and still got a 3K average..) unlike other Killers who chickened out instead of testing. And it actually felt nice to get outplayed at an unsafe Loop, because the Survivor was actually better than me. With Bloodlust, I would have just get a cheap Speedboost and won the chase.
And yep, undeserved. Sorry, if you fail to get Hits on unsafe Loops, this is a skill-issue.
I'm so glad you wrote this post. fair loops are unsafe loops.
I think jungle gyms, i.e safe pallets are extremely problematic in current DBD. Dead hard exaggerates these problematic pallets further because it insures you can greed pallets that have no mindgames through distance gain.
I don't think bloodlust 3 makes jungle gym pallets unsafe. a skilled survivor can just camp the pallet and slide at the correct times. for all intensive purposes, jungle gym pallets are god pallets at higher-level of survivor game. that's why the dead hard for distance is as problematic as it is.
Bloodlust is not overpowered mechanic. Its more that mechanic drains the skill of winning proper mindgames on fair pallet loops with killer while failing to address problematic pallet loops.
you could argue that bloodlust helps killer deal with certain window loops, but 3 window entity blocker already fixes this problem. If there is a problematic window that automatically forces 3 window entity blocker when used, than that window is most likely problematic and hinges on the 2016 infinity window loop problems. i.e remove window or add breakable wall to fix the window.
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@Blueberry said:
Agree with most of it.
However I disagree about Eruption, it's terrible. Remove its cooldown and bump the % reduction up to like 12%. People underestimate how costly it is to kick gens. That is a significant downside. It's also high risk as you can lose the gen before actually getting the down and then that kick gave you nearly nothing.
Infection needs to do more. Make the zombies move like 20% faster per infected survivor. Also take away the sprint burst on Infection hits since it's not a damage state.
Along with better zombie AI they need increase FoV base kit and better survivor detection.
you could buff eruption to 15% and I'm not entirely sure if killer would use it over pop. other two perks are joke-tier perks.
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@nostrada96ass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2952074#Comment_2952074
only corrupt is close to what you should looking for
you may need spirit fury,enduring,brutal,bamboozle for end first chase quick enough to try 2kills here
idk why our common sense is still too hard for na players
always i get answers when i see streamers you guys have and think its good
if we had bad skilled surv main like pug goes toxic or whine, our community will burn because theres no much left of killer players even in japanese server
we having long ass queue as survivor in new earth, because you guys still bad at this game
Enduring Spirit fury and Brutal strength are all redundant perks to leatherface's ability. His chainsaw when breaking pallet breaks pallet in 1 second. It is fastest pallet break in the entire game. Every time leatherface breaks a pallet, he automatically does spirit fury without drawback of spirit fury.
His only real weakness is chained strong windows. He can play around single windows with his chainsaw with add-ons, but chained windows are his cryptonight. bamboozle is only real chase perk he needs, it removes his weakness of chained windows. Single windows with bamboozle allow leatherface to break unfair pallets with complete ease.
Billy used to use Enduring Spirit fury with bamboozle because Billy's curving requires him to disrespect pallet stuns which made Enduring a very potent and necessary perk for good billy players. He is also had a bug where if he get stunned during middle of his chainsaw, He would keep charge on his chainsaw. Leatherface has no real reason to disrespect pallets in most cases so enduring is irrelevant perk and Spirit fury is redundant perk to his ability.
Billy had reasons to use it, leatherface has little reason to use it.
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2952137#Comment_2952137
They are basically saying the the Korean servers are too far advanced for the rest of us mere mortals to understand. They're the best player ever, of course. Don't question them or else your bad.
I think your misunderstanding nostrada96ass point.
He is saying that you can escape leatherface with 1 kill/3 escape by doing generators despite on generator slowdown. He is right on that. This is true. I'd say that from limited testing(30 games), The ratio was something like 8/10 games you would get 2k-3k as Leatherface by purely hard-camping hooks.
In practice, strategy should not very effective because generator progression is suppose to exceed hook regression. It is true if all of your teammates are perfectly optimized on objective, but soloQ has always been strictly not optimized in generator speed from lack of information. I think once they add survivor icons, the reliability of such strategy for killer will be less but I also think these type of games for survivor are not particularly interesting.
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I think leatherface is most underrated killer in DBD and I think the reason is that leatherface towards survivors is like old billy with no add-ons. When you face bad old billies, you could loop billy for 5 generators because for some unexplained reason:
A big part of survivor and killer community believes that if you are good at killer, you can just auto-win every single game as killer with no add-ons and no perks with added twist of 30 second afk.
This isn't reality. Killers very much rely on their add-ons to empower their abilities to defeat strong players. billy very much relied on charge-time reducation add-ons to curve top-tier survivor looping. I would say Bubba is new billy. for strong survivor players, Leatherface is as bad as he was pre-rework against strong survivor looping. He is only powerful with particular set of add-ons if the killer player is exceptional skilled at understanding the limits of his chainsaw.
Only very few billy were good at curving with billy in the past, just like there was very few leatherfaces that are remotely good at using him. So most billy you face in the past were a joke to play against just as most leatherfaces are a joke to play against excluding the very few good ones. as such, Average player either thinks he is average/terrible where as Veteran players know he is strong.
Luckily for killer player, the fact that Casual survivors don't complain means that he preserves his strength. If only every other killer was like that.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2950151#Comment_2950151
I think Evil Dead may have a really good chance of dethroning them. I've been watching some streams and it looks really fun. Plus the survivors can actually fight back against the killer.
no chance. Evil dead is hitting different genre of asymmetric games. Before DBD existed, one of the very first asymmetric well-known popular games was Valves Left 4 Dead 2. Evil dead is remastered version of Left 4 dead 2 VS mode. The survivor is doing pre-set arbitrary story mode and the killer is refer to as game-director.
I would say that those type of asymmetric games tend to not have ever-lasting multiplayer and they tend to be more popular in towards PVE aspect.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2947703#Comment_2947703
Well this is why ideally if the game was actually balanced properly I’d be fine with built in anti-tunnel mechanics as then it wouldn’t be necessary any more. The problem is it looks like the devs are going to build in more anti camp/tunnel mechanics before addressing the balance properly.
I highly doubt that first statement in regards to anti-tunnel. decisive strike loosely punishes tunneling. that surely had few complaints. I thought borrow time base-kit was just a joke. BT is perk that punishes proxy camping so I don't think that quite solves issue. old BT used to give unhooker the endurence effect for 15 seconds and If it also includes the inability to be grabbed during unhook, this would allow you to save survivors in very-close proximity of the killer, though as you can already tell, BT+this perk is nuclear.
Sadly, most survivor complain too much about killers with very unjustified changes, so killers have little interesting in resolving survivor issues.
TL:DR nothing is changing.
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@Blueberry said:
This exact feature was tested many years ago. Survivors abused it severely so it was dropped.
You fix camping and tunneling by balancing the game properly. Camping and tunneling is a symptom of poor game balance, not the problem itself. Most the camping and tunneling is because killers feel backed into a corner with no other options since the devs refuse to balance for high mmr.
There will always be some killers who camp and tunnel just because they want to but that isn't the majority.
just a personal opinion, I think people that are going to be hyper-defensive on hooks will stay hyper defensive for regardless of how strong killers get. facecamping honestly is just abusing the bad balance of hooks and unhooking process.
normally there was no issue with it because the strategy wasn't viable. survivors could just ignore hooked survivor and do gen and power exit gate into man 3 escape. killers that were camping hooks were not exerting in any map pressure to prevent survivor objective from being complete. there was inherent trade-off for doing the activity, one of which was not rewarding.
A big part to why I like perk designs like sloppy butcher, pop goes weasel, thanotophobia, pain resonance and so on is that these perk presented healthy gameplay styles of promoting the killer chasing the 3 hook-death condition. Those perks required you hit the survivor or hook the survivor continuously to get value of the slowdown. I want include dead man switch but than there is Artist problem with it. Killers did not have automated perk slowdowns. With perks like Corrupt intervention, Deadlock and No-Way out+noed, you have enough automated generator slowdown to ensure 2 kills with many killers.
I'd say that hook regression is just dated mechanic for DBD. Killer players camp because the rewards of regression a survivor's hook-state are more rewarding than taking chases. Removing hook regression would largely kill the effectiveness of facecamping for kills. The issue is that you'd practically kill the game for killer by doing so because the alternative method for winning(hooking survivors 3 times) is completely ineffective against strong players. survivor's objective(generator) is simply way faster than the killer's objective towards hooks.
winning by 3 hooking has to be viable if you are to remove camping as strategy. With weaker killer powers left and right and a painfully slow process for killers to kill survivors, there is little reason to change anything regards to camping.
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@Pulsar said:
Legion's rework was good for the Legion mains (myself included) but boy has it brought the fact that Mending is extremely unfun right back into the spotlight.
These have been reminiscent of the old Forever Freddy games. It's not that Legion is OP, it's just that he's SO incredibly unfun and boring to face.
Thoughts on how to make him more engaging?
your the one who said legion is terrible. he was always centered around this gameplay. He is stronger at what he was already successful at in his previous iteration.
Don't see what the problem is.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2944593#Comment_2944593
The drawback of staying injured all match is that I'll use blood echo and thana, so no DH or whatever.
As you said, if everybody is injured, they'll have to cleanse. But at least 2 people are gonna have to cleanse, otherwise what I'm gonna do is straight up bodyblock the hook if just 1 person healthy comes, and maybe even infect that survivor fully and down them, so not even the chance to do a trade so I force second stage. That guarantees at least 2 corrupted pools.
Then I'll get everyone infected again, and later have 2/3 pools, if not more. Then it's gonna be a problem for them, because they're gonna have to cleanse much closer.
That's why hematite + limestone seal has been banned from Dbd League (unreasonably imo), because taking all gens hostage for 90 seconds is huge. You can outlast 40 seconds, but not 90, so you either don't do gens or get infected. Also I might even have Black Incense, and then you're screwed unless you have distortion, because I'm gonna see perfectly when to leave a hook and when to camp if you don't cleanse.
Effectiveness add-ons are not better than duration combined or even just yellow duration, because what you want to do with Plague is puke on a survivor, then unless you already infected all gens immediately leave and infect as many people as fast as possible , if they work on gens they'll get infected much faster already with the buff.
yeah that's why when people say you should never cleanse vs plague, that is not correct attitude. the correct attitude is that you should limit cleansing to limit amount of times that you need face corrupt puke.
The strategy behind plague end up being the strategy that some people propose to do against Oni which is that you use strongest pallets on the map to starve plague from getting early downs because if plague cannot get an early down, she cannot get hook therefore she cannot play hook-defense game with infection. So a perk like Blood echo which requires hooks becomes ineffective because no hooks = no exhaust and a perk like dead hard becomes very difficult to play-around with safe pallets when your ranged attack is absent.
typically survivors want to over-cleanse at around 1 generator so that they don't need to loop corrupt puke plague all game. Iri seal somewhat forces the survivor to adopt an early over-cleansing strategy from start. Like I said in my previous post, her slow-wind up, slow projectile speed and reduction in movement during wind-up gives survivors near full control to outplay corrupt puke by hugging corners tightly around tall-wall type loops like jungle gym walls.
The add-ons that used to give plague a bit of counter-play towards survivor's efficient looping of corrupt puke were weakened. Those being Rubbing Oil, Worship tablet and new add-on Vile Emetic. The faster wind-up on Rubbing Oil was halved, so now if you want get a similar effect to old rubbing Oil, you need use Vile Emetic which provides 10% projectile speed increase which is suppose to "help" you hit survivors before they turn the corner with corrupt puke and mitigate the whole 50% nerf. The main problem with running these add-ons is that they burn both of your add-on slots for what was once just a single add-on slot for similar effect. The other add-on slot for what people used to make people cleanse was black incense. The idea was that if you don't cleanse, plague gets a lot of aura reading, but if you do cleanse, The rubbing Oil+Corrupt puke would give plague a very potent chase tool. Black incense+Oil is still somewhat usable but it just feels a lot worse to use post-change.
I understand the strategy you are describing which revolves around spending time to individual spread sickness, however if you use double infection add-ons, survivors that are completely broken that are put on the hook will spread infection to the rescuer. You will Spread infection more naturally and be more time-efficient overall. The survivors will also be very shocked to find themselves nearly instantly broken into an m1 down should they ever come within your effect m1 range. It ends up making cleansing a lot less rewarding given that you can remove their health-state very rapidly. I find it that I get more value out of using plague's power to down survivor out of position rather than using her ability as chase-tool enhancer. Both iri seal and this build highly excel at doing this in different ways.
Just my subjective opinion, the old plague with add-ons felt like much stronger chase killer but she felt very clunky to play. The new plague feels weaker in the chase[weaker overall] but she feels more smooth to play. Overall, I enjoy playing her more but don't really appreciate her weaknesses being more pronounced.
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none of those change would really do anything for him.
only reverting him to his old state would truly help him.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2944382#Comment_2944382
She has hematite + limestone steal which combined make the infection on gens last FOREVER, 90 seconds in total, 110 if you use the meme add-on, so you can pretty much, especially with corrupt, force everyone to get infected.
Also other strong add-ons, like both apples
strong survivors are not afraid to play infected the entire match. Its just playing No Mither with zero drawback dead hard. Instant downs are not really that powerful in DBD when it comes to the chase because safe pallets in the game are so potent that that they're better than health states for survivor.
Look at this way, you never face consequences of having -1 health state if you don't get hit. You don't even need to endure the problems of healing with survivor allowing you to complete generators quicker. Plague's ability inherently removes one of two secondary objects for survivor which is healing(The other is totems).
The instant downs are more problematic for hook camping because hooks are in deadzones. This is why survivor tend to cleanse when going for unhooks against plague. For this reason, Infection object add-ons are just meme add-ons.
For a power that instantly grants old instant heals for free via fountain healing, there has to be major upside to her ability to compensate the major downsides of free 4 second instant heals.
From my personal extensive testing, I would say that second-class add-ons that I would use as plague(and I use these as back-ups) are Emetic Potion[Yellow-add on]+Infected Emetic[Green add-on]. Together gives her a 70% vile purge infection, a slightly weaker version of her old purple add-on, Vile Emetic that once granted 100% vile purge infection. They make green puke viable because you can very quickly break a survivor from 100-0 ->m1.
I'd say the apples are just worse version of iri-seal. they're not really worth using. I would also say that they make you worse at plague because it means you have trouble adapting in using both of her abilities to your advantage in tandem. I would say same for survivor. I think it is important skill to be able adapt to both corrupt puke plague and m1 instant down plague. From my personal opinion, Its easier to loop an m1 instant down than it is to loop a ranged flamethrower killer. Of course, there are some inevitable situations where you will need the skills to to play against her corrupt puke form so It is important to be good at playing against both versions of the killer.
I'd say plague is a bit of underrated killer but she's not exactly powerful when the survivor are good so her status probably favors underwhelming, more so than effective.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
The combination of the 2 add-ons means that, other than your 1 default corrupted pool, you get 60 seconds of power after each gen gets completed.
With Deadlock, you pretty much cannot waste the value, especially with Corrupt to always guarantee the third gen not to get completed too soon.
Now the question is: why shouldn't anyone just use these 2 add-ons and perks over everything else? It makes Plague massively better than Default, when with no add-ons you could have your corrupted pool in a very bad spot in a map corner.
I think that these add-ons combination should get an overall review, and Iridescent Seal a rework or nerf, maybe making it so that you cannot add duration add-ons, like more hatchets to Iridescent head. Also currently you have no way to predict Plague will have it, you'll just get punished for doing your objective. Imagine Myers going Tier 3 for 60 seconds every time a gen gets gone. Pretty bullshit right?
The only reason I don't feel frustrated by these add-ons together is because nobody is really using it, and also nobody plays Plague (sadge), but if everyone started using these and constantly doing a hostage gen situation with those + Corrupt Deadlock Thana Blood Echo it would become very very annoying.
way to describe the add-ons and perks that I use on plague these days.
plague's corrupt puke has slow wind-up with heavy movement reduction and slow projectile speed. you can hug corners around tall-wall loops and she will not be able to hit you. Pallets stun you out of her power. corrupt puke is not that strong of an anti-loop tool. Its just better than no ability to play loops at all.
She is very strong out in the open(dead zones) because of flamethrower nature of her corrupt puke, but being broken is similar those situations.
I use the perks and add-ons because her lower tier green add-ons and some purple add-ons received negative changes in her last update. I rather use other add-ons if they were restored to their default state. She has nothing better to use currently than these.
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@SilentShepherd said:
Every single one. Huntresses, nurses, Trapper, Hag, all of them camping from 1st hook and then tunneling that hooked player if they can.
Every. Single. Game.
This is one aspect of DBD that needs attention. How a killer can create a downright toxic and horrible experience for a particular player in a match, by camping and tunneling. Intentionally ignoring everyone else, walking around them, to keep tunneling. Even if a teammate stands in front of the killer to try and help, the killer runs around the teammate to keep tunneling. Hooks, then camps again.
This sort of thing needs immediate attention to be fixed.
Did something happen in the past couple weeks I don't know about?
aren't you guy that said killer need to be weaker? Like bubba needs to be weaker or something?
Imagine complaining about proxy camping and tunneling but then asking killers to be weaker so they lose more often for your amusement.
How's feel to be on receiving end for survivor? expect killer to camp/tunnel more the more they feel like they'll lose every single match by not doing so.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2941815#Comment_2941815
I agree for the most part. However I don’t think old billy, spirit or Freddy needed their nerfs.
they did not. I am just saying that for some killers, they don't even need to put any effort to make them strong/viable. just revert their previous changes and they're probably close to competing against SWF. they were already balanced around SWF arguably.
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@Blueberry said:
This is all under the assumption that this would allow the devs to balance the game around SWF. I highly doubt they would actually properly balance around SWF even if we did make these changes to solo queue and even if they hypothetically did, at their rate of progress this would be like a literal 5 year plan...so basically not happen.
So yeah, in an ideal world this sounds great on paper. However realistically I have high doubts that it would actually play out the way we're envisioning.
I personally still feel like the power role currently in solo queue. The only way we're losing is because my teammates or I played poorly. I win most solo queue matches with like 2-3 hooks per game. Most solo queue issues are player skill issues, not game balance issues.
well its not like there hasn't been killers in the past that weren't strong. just look at old spirit, old billy and freddy. your pretending like dev have never made strong killers. for some of killer, they simply need revert them. I do agree that they would long time to make weak killers that were not strong into strong killer though.
At the same time, I don't think survivors want stronger killers. survivors don't really want to be challenged. 2-3 hooks is most likely good balance. Many team games have ping systems and in-game UI which improves coordination for team-based games. The lack of one for DBD is game-balance for solo-survivor.
for most of lifespan, DBD balance logic is like: let's just have extremely bad matchmaking for soloQ(before MMR), debuff soloQ by making them completely disorganized as much as possible making most killer look like gods. SWF goes completely unchecked. As a result of killer looking like gods, let's just make all killer powers as underwhelming as possible so they auto-lose to strong swf to counter-balance their dominance on soloq. 1000 IQ gameplay logic.
at least with survivor icons, they're starting in a good spot. they got long way to go though for both killer and survivor.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2941628#Comment_2941628
Just to clarify, Peanits did not "reject the idea of removing all perk tiers". They said that they didn't want to only remove perk tiers as a short term fix but wanted to instead work on a longer term revamp that would more permanently address grind. So it's definitely possible that changes to the perk tiers could also be part of that larger scale change, for all we know whatever the big rework is might end up including changes to perk tiers or do away with them altogether along with other bloodweb revisions.
if he did not reject the idea, than he would be confirming the change. It is one or the other. He rejected the idea.
The reason was because it would not address permanent escalation of grind from releasing new content.
it wasn't even like a maybe-type responce, it was just clear nope.
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@Raccoon said:
I hope there are some game changing announcements.
I don't think anniversary stream will have any impact on the game. That is because Anniversary stream just talks about road map of the game.
We already know a lot of road map of the game. for example on realm beyond, there is only two realms in which they have not changed of the old maps which are red forest(mother dwelling & temple) and backwater swamp.
in term of killer updates, Patrick hinted twins. he also talked about back-filling improvements to matchmaking and hinted something about survivor team-rating, I imagine its something to do with facecamping killers in EGC and survivor leaving their teammate behind because their inability save them. maybe if your team-rating is very high, you draw even if you died.
Survivor Icons were mentioned at the start of the year.
Peanut mentioned that dev are working reducing grind. He rejected the idea of removing all perk tier. It makes me believe that they have bigger plans in mind. No clue for how big of grind they're reducing.
If peanuts goal is to remove all grind altogether, he might be doing something like removing prestige & making that unlocked teachable perks from other characters automatically unlock on every other character at tier 3. This means that all blood webs would only have the generic perks and the character specific perks. teachable version of the perk would be available when corresponding character has their specific perk at level 3.
In any case, regardless of what they say about the road map for DBD, very little changes until actual changes are implemented in the game.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937279#Comment_2937279
Oh, I think I forgot to mention that aspect of my idea in the shortened version- if a survivor touches the fake generator, it disappears and they scream. The fake generators can't actually be repaired, that would just be making survivors hold M1 for longer.
As for your correction, even if that's true - and I'd argue it isn't, he still has an uninteractive and flat power design for the killer side - that's still more than enough reason to change it. Obviously, fun is subjective and can't be the only thing changes are made to achieve, but if a killer is complained about specifically for how boring and unfun simply slowing down action speeds is, that's a good reason to look into changes. Survivor fun matters just as much as killer fun, you can't ignore it.
Oh, so now generator are not useful. Well that was easy debunk. All the more reason to not change him.
Survivor fun matters just as much as killer fun, you can't ignore it.
Don't worry. Survivor fun is always prioritized. That is why freddy is where he is today.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937194#Comment_2937194
...It's different because it's not the same thing? Sticking on generators for longer is different to paying attention to your surroundings, it's the reason why other slowdown killers aren't as boring to go against- they actually ask you to do something beyond stare at a progress bar and occasionally hit space.
And yeah, I agree, pre-nerf Freddy was stronger. He was also boring as hell, because having your action speeds drained like that is dull design. It'd be better to have him be more potent in strength, sure, but the actual problem with Freddy's design at every different incarnation of his power is that he's never been fun.
You're right, I misspoke by saying that it wasn't threatening. What I should've said is that the problem wasn't just that it was threatening and nothing more, the problem is that it was threatening and extremely uninteractive. The light in the tunnel, of course, is that phantom objects and playing around the Dream World being his to control is interesting in theory if they drill down on it a little more and make the Dream World more potent, so that's why I don't think he needs a complete ground-up rework and why he definitely doesn't need any current changes simply reverted.
sticking on generators for longer is different to paying attention to your surroundings
there isn't anything in regards to paying attention to surroundings. they're either going to do fake generator(hold m1 longer) or ignore generator because they know its fake. your just debating how the survivor should get punished in-time efficiency.
An old idea for legion was that his power should allow him to mimic survivors which other player point to swf making the power useless. Illusory objects have same problem for why mimic idea fails to work. Freddy still going to get trashed on unless its like impossible to break out of dreamworld but that wouldn't really feel like freddy.
Freddy's design at every different incarnation of his power is that he's never been fun.
correction: He was never fun for survivor. there wasn't anything wrong with him on killer side. There are 27 total killers in current DBD, not every killer will appeal to every killer player and that is ok.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937056#Comment_2937056
How d'you mean, canonically?
Canonically what he does is prey on people via their dreams, where he reigns supreme and everything around them can be twisted to his liking. That's what he does, and illusory objects is a much more accurate representation of that than either the snares or the awfully designed action speed slowdown.
As for your last point, killers being fun to face in general is just as important as them being fun/viable to play. Survivor players are still playing the game, and if a killer's power is as boring to verse as "you spend more time holding M1", that's a complaint that's worth taking seriously. Same with his old addons, there was nothing engaging about Forever Freddy. It's not "threatening", it's "boring".
Survivor players are still playing the game, and if a killer's power is as boring to verse as "you spend more time holding M1", that's a complaint that's worth taking seriously.
how is adding extra fake generators and totems any different from holding m1 longer? Its just creating same effect with a different representation. at very best, survivors might wake up and the mechanic is ineffective because its too easy to render the effect ineffective. At the very worst, suppose that alarm clocks and failed skill-checks did not wake you up, It might have similar-levels of effectiveness. Illusory objects are also just really bad vs SWF as only one person needs to be awake for entire dream mechanic to be ineffective.
there was nothing engaging about Forever Freddy. It's not "threatening", it's "boring".
Why did it receive changes if it was not threatening? I think your deeply wrong to believe that freddy wasn't strong. Although his changes were not explained in detail, they were explained prior to his changes with a perk called thanotophobia. I will give my version of the summary. survivors that took too many hits too quickly got punished by his add-ons and the two perks(sloppy+thano) and typically, survivors gen-speed is so potent that survivors do not need health-states to loop a killer because a lot of pallets in this game are safe such that they act-as stacked sequencing health-states. His add-ons in combination with sloppy and thanotophobia gave him a nearly augmented mangled status effect ranging between 30%-47% healing action penalty. Seeing such strong action penalty towards healing, Once you got hit by freddy, you were likely playing the game injured, so the typical spam health-states, bodyblock second chance gameplay was absent weakness for him. As his add-ons also slowed generators along with said perk, it created lose/lose situation for the survivor where healing is not possible but doing generator was difficult.
The chases weren't easy because of his snare-anti-loop. He was like playing against Plague as broken without ability cleanse while plague having unlimited corrupt puke in an m1 form. The only counter-play to him was his game slowdown diminishing effectiveness the more generators were complete, so if you played properly with survivor and did not make mistakes at loops, you could finish all generators by having strong starts. He had that proper Climax form that killers like EV3 Myers fail to have against strong players.
In other words, you had to be good at the game to beat him as survivor, but survivor couldn't put up with his gameplay. As result he was changed into this pointless form that barely anyone plays.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2936911#Comment_2936911
Fake pallets just aren't that useful, which is why they'd be part of the basekit alongside snares. You'd get a little value from them, but not that much.
But, for the others, I disagree. You're telling me no survivor would ever fall for totems that look completely identical to real hexes? No survivor would touch a generator that looks partially done? Obviously they're not going to be a Nurse/Blight/Spirit level power, but they wouldn't be useless, and they'd make him fun for both sides instead of kinda boring for the killer and extremely boring for the survivors.
My goal isn't to make him stronger. My goal is to make him more interesting and fun for everyone, and a small part of that is making sure he isn't too weak. With his current existing power and more stuff added on top of that, that's a pure upside.
canonically they're not really his powers so they make little sense.
At best, survivors might wake-up more often to avoid fake totems or generators, at worst they just ignore it. When freddy's dreamworld was threatening, survivors still ignored his dream world mechanic and just suffers max penalties regardless. Suppose they were hypothetically effective game slowdown, survivors would just complain he is is strong again.
He is dead a killer. He is good cover art for the game and he is ok for new players to you know, role-play as. There is just not that much reason to re-invent the wheel with him. They could revert him into his original state and he would be a fun stealth killer that isn't that strong or they could revert his negative changes and he would be jack of many trades with a more presentable power-level. Unfortunately the game is heavily survivor bias and survivor were not fond of facing either version of him, so I would assume that he is going to stay where he is at.
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Desperate measures by itself sucks. Botany knowledge without med-kit by itself sucks.
Botany knowledge+Desperate measure is solid. Its too expensive for two perk slot.
It would see more use if botany knowledge+Desperate measure was a single perk. you can pair with self-care but it is just too many perks slots.
The perk that does combine these 3 perks is COH hence why some killer complain about it, so it keeps getting worse. Another negative change to that perk will kill that perk from existence.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2936090#Comment_2936090
Having the dream world be populated with more fake objects to make survivors question what's real and what isn't would be a much, much better way of giving him an identity than just making survivors do things slower. That is and always was incredibly lazy and boring design, and we shouldn't be going back to it.
survivors already know what is real and what isn't real no matter how many fake objects you place on the map. They know it because of the killer has to be in proximity to set traps which in this case is fake pallets. Its typical strategy also used against trapper. You can stay in terror/in close proximity of the harmless killer and know approximately where the chases take place and where potential fake pallets are.
There is old saying, "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer". This is exact dynamic used against pallet freddy. A lot of maps do not have places to put fake pallets and force you to break pallets first before being able to place them, but the survivor can through process of elimination know which areas the killer has chased and avoid fake pallets altogether.
Doctor has add-on called Order Carter notes and it places fake pallets automatically, but rarely does anyone really fall for his illusion pallets. The reward is not really that good either. At best, it is a hit and at worst, they do nothing.
Illusory objects are weak gimmick. they do very little. There is simply no reason to expand on them.
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@Blueberry said:
Well if it was anti-loop that required skilled play I wouldn't take much issue, such as PH landing his Punishment of the Damned through walls by predicting survivor movement. However generally the reason most people hate anti-loop killers is because what it turns into in reality is just circling the loop a couple times until you're forced to pallet throw and get hit through locked animation or try to bait it and still get m1'd. There isn't much skilled interaction going on there. Hence why people just pre drop pallets for a lot of those killers.
So less of the issue is "anti-loop" killers as a concept and more of an issue of how BHVR has designed their anti-loop killers. They take away from the funnest part of the game for survivors which is the chase.
Honestly I think the better killer design route to go is more focused around map pressure and game slow down. This allows survivors to have their long fun chases that they enjoy but at the same time those chases don't cost the killer as heavily. IE focusing the killer design more around handling a 1v4 rather than a 1v1.
The issue is that anti-loop killers that are heavily inconsistent become ineffective at anti-loop because their power is not shortening the chases. Many killer powers have semblance like they're suppose to end chases faster but their chases just end up being as long if not longer than normal killers. Nemesis is perfect example of this. The fact that his power gives survivor 3 health states +4 vials of free health states means that even though he has more chances to hit people. his chases end up being longer than other killers.
A lot of the game is already focused on generator defense perks. Old Ruin+Pop, Old undying+Ruin, now CI+Dead man switch. Its been focused on generator slowdown and 4vs1 map pressure for its entire lifespan. The lack of interactivity at pallet loops on strong survivor maps just leads the killer to need to break like 75% of the map before he gets to the point where he can play 25% of the pallet loops where he can get hits on. For all strong survivor teams, you'll basically lose all generators by the time you ever break the map.
I think generator defense perks just promote the killer to break loops and press spacebar simulator until all the safe pallets are gone in attempts to break most of the map before losing all 5 generators. Winning the game as killer because the entire map is deadzone is boring for killer. I don't think its healthy gameplay loop but its gameplay loop recipe that they've been using for years.
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what is this post on about? He already was reworked.
Freddy just needs a revert on his snare nerfs and add-ons.
@jesterkind said:
I don't think a full rework is necessary- I've said this a few times, but all Freddy needs is to lean harder into the idea of illusory objects.
Pallets + Snares both as part of his basekit, and a full addon overhaul to have his addons primarily focus on giving him other fake objects. Fake partially-done generators that make survivors scream if they're touched, fake lit totems that inflict status effects, fake chests, fake walls, and so on.
Make the dream world slightly more of a concern to be in; survivors can't trust their eyes and ears while asleep.
fake pallets are useless vs good players. lore-wise, they do not make much sense either. Freddy lore is suppose to be about the idea that he is living nightmare, a ever presence of fear that exists everywhere. The dream world is suppose to make survivors feel a sense of fatigue.
Freddy snares make sense because he makes the survivor feel tired from running. -action speed add-ons also add onto this idea that the survivor are tired and work slower on objective. In previous iteration of nightmare, He used to be a stealth killer with perfect invisibility which made survivor feel like he was omnipresent entity and aura reading was there to give sense that he is controlling the world. In the new version, they gave him a generator teleport to make freddy feel like he's omnipresent entity around the map instead.
The reason why freddy sucks right now is because he doesn't have an identity. His dream world does nothing to make survivor feel like they're fatigued. the slowdown for placing snares counter-acts hindered effect. The add-ons that uniquely identified him as killer no longer exist. Oblivious is useless when the killer has lullaby and his teleport was always niche tool that added very little to his power-level.
He's basically F-tier in the sense that nothing he does is better than what other killers can't do better. Almost every killer who is mobile has better mobility than he does. Clown now has better chase than his snares. His gen slowdown do not exist anymore, but even if they did, pinhead chain hunt is better than his add-ons ever were. In the end, when players used to say old freddy is F-tier, they were right in the end. Current Freddy is F-tier at doing nothing better than what other killers can do better. Adding illusion pallets does little to fix his current problems.
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well my opinion hasn't changed. killers that get improved tend to beat weaker survivor players too badly, hence posts from casual players emerge complaining that x killer is too dominating or as I will use survivor terms -boring-
Almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I'm not entirely sure how mending for 12 seconds equates to mending the entire match. I'm pretty sure it takes longer for legion to dash around the map than it takes to mend. The only way I can see survivors unable to progress match against legion is healing against legion. It makes think that survivors want to heal and escape against legion which was heavily possible in previous iteration underwhelming state.
Escaping legion is mostly just being good at playing No mither. He's not that difficult to escape in my opinion. well-placed dead hard knock him out of feral frenzy and pallets stuns knock him out of feral frenzy preventing him from chaining hits. I'm just surprised that they improved a killer before adding survivor icons for soloq.
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@Blueberry said:
So how is he unfun to play against exactly?
You shouldn't be healing and the mend takes seconds. What am I missing here?
your missing the part that survivor are losing to him now instead escaping 24/7. wraith all over again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYUvwYB4-S8Don't worry, it happens every time a killer becomes stronger. I still never get why survivor ever complain about "killer" variety when they kill their own variety with posts like these. Its been pretty long time since an m1 killer got some control over the game.
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@Momentosis I mean just first thread is like 1600 likes of someone not knowing to how reveal ghostface. The clips are pure comedy.
reveal mechanic is more of casual change that weakened ghostface. He just got no relative positive changes that help killer have impact on their gameplay. for making it easier reveal him, they did not increase how long it takes to reveal him, they didn't make stalking faster, nor did they remove that mechanic where basic m1's destroy stalk meter, the last ones is like myers losing ev2 meter for m1 which is just so stupid.
Just nothing positive for him. none of add-on really doing much. for killer that falls on the line of complete simplicity of 99% stalks into ambush m1 downs, he fails to deliver on that gameplay. Just another one of those killers that will not see much play for survivor.
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@Blueberry said:
Another early game gen slow down.
At the start of the game all gens are blocked. Each blocked gen has a hex totem lit for it. In order to unblock a gen you have to break the corresponding hex totem for that gen.
This basically means at the start of the match you'd have 7 hex totems lit on the map.
It would take basically all the totem slots though so it would prevent you from running any other synergistic hex perks as well as a downside. So you couldn't run like Retribution or ToTH with it.
there is only 5 totem spots. you would only get 5 generators blocked at most. This is what old undying kinda was with ruin, except you didn't need to break the totems to do generators, you only had to do it in late game if 3 gen or be good enough to survive 80 second chase to finish last gen.
the generator slowdown idea is good but I feel like DBD used to have a working % slowdown perk in sloppy+thano but than threw it away b/c of complaints of freddy. now both freddy is completely worthless and those perks are pretty weak. SC Gift of pain is also really bad as a result of that.
Scourge hook perks honestly have really good effects(except for Gift of pain), Its just a shame that you only get 4 of them. It would be nice if it was 6 hooks instead of 4. they're a bit too... unreliable....
I think Corrupt+Dead man switch is as good as killer are ever going get when it comes to slowing down generators to be honest. The only type of early game perk that I could see killers using is a perk that grants exposed for like first 60 seconds of the match. that would make survivor more scared to work on generators and it would be really strong pairing with lethal pursuer for early game downs. Other than that, I don't really see any other early game perk that killers would really use beyond classic gen defense.
I don't see bvhr improving killer perks more than what they are now and I don't see any future killer perk being strong. I don't know, it just feels weird.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927644#Comment_2927644
Plus 99ing survivors is hit and run on steroids. They're a milisecond away from being downed and they can't heal damage they don't have yet. He can snowball like crazy. Someone comes in for a bodyblock not knowing they're 99'd and boom
problem #1: stalking is difficult against survivor that are vigilante. It is time consuming and ultimately easier to reveal him than it is for him to stalk especially when its swf revealing him. He is also an M1 killer who is terrible at chase, so being exposed means very little.
problem #2: Healing counters hit & run no stalk-ghostface builds. boons and med-kits make all stealth killers ineffective
problem #3: An easy way to reset 99 stalk is to block ghostface during hook action, a basic attack will always reset 99 stalk. this forces the ghostface to drop survivor(slug) or lose all stalk progression on that survivor.
Agreed. I don't know what in the world people are doing with Ghostface, but stalking is perfectly viable. Even if you don't get an ambush, you have a super long exposed effect.
Only viable vs weak survivor teams. He is like only two only killers to get punished now for landing a hit in relation to their ability.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926739#Comment_2926739
That doesn't matter when you can just get hit and run to 1 of the 3 potential god windows on Myer's house and loop the killer til they somehow catch up with you. Only killers who can counter any of the Haddonfield God windows are like Pro artists, maybe huntresses, clown, wraith kinda, Nurse, Spirit, and Trapper. Everyone else will be forced to M1 through it in a slow grueling process and thats assuming they're only abusing the one window in the very front of the house. If you're smart and play with it chases can easily last 3+ minutes assuming the killer never leaves you. Then again even if they do everyone can abuse this house alone so its easy to just run straight for it everytime you're in chase.
those windows were always there for haddonfield. One of them has breakable wall now. Myers house always had bottom infinity, but it used to be rng based. now its just always there on top floor. The other house always had that strong side-window but I think that window was also rng.
I'd say the map is much improved given that it no longer has windows on house of pain and it no longer has those incredibly long fences. It still remains to have strong loops though. Its middle of the road map now. The generators spread and pathing is also much easier for killer to navigate compare to its old iteration.
Survivors will just pick Badham now when they need a survivor-favored map as badham still has old house of pain. So I'd recon that badham and Cowshed are probably best survivor maps now.
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blind chance is flipping a coin. Pig's head-trap are blind chance.
A Juke is pretending to go one direction but instead taking a different direction.
An example is when a survivor is looping a tile and the survivor leaves a tile but the killer does not notice that survivor left the tile.
Counter-play is a given outcome to have two possible conclusions.
An example is deathslinger's gun. The survivor can get hit or dodge the harpoon shot. Getting hit will result in a down for the killer if successfully reel in. Dodging the shot will prevent the killer from acquiring the down.
a mindgame is non-visual game that is being played in the mind while simultaneously playing a visual game.
Spirit's old phase walk is a mindgame. Mind games are complicated and cannot be explained a single sentence. DBD is full of mindgames.
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@UnKn0wN45 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925945#Comment_2925945
This was sort of my point... Are there too many pallets? Considering windows can't be "broken" and made unusable without bamboozle or that demo perk they renamed recently that blocks windows near a popped gen, AKA dumb and dumber, pallets should be strong (safe) but rare, and windows should be much less safe but permanent, and common right? Instead we have a mixed bag of everything that gives way to infinites and linking tiles in such a way, that if you are Pig (my favorite killer btw and the reason i bought the game) you just have NO chance, even stealth is not viable because of spine chill ran mostly for vault build but having the added bonus of making stealth (more or less) useless.
To be fair though, if that was the case no one would ever survive an artist, or a nemesis right?
I wouldn't say there are too many pallets. Its more that there are too many safe pallets that the killer is forced to break. for a killer like your favorite, the pig, your forced to break too many pallets. you'll never break all pallets that are problematic(in most cases) before all 5 generators are done. survivors can and will successfully trade pallets for all 5 generators.
To be fair though, if that was the case no one would ever survive an artist, or a nemesis right?
I would say that anti-loop killers give more gameplay to the killer at safe loops. If every pallet is unsafe, than their ability becomes less useful because you no longer rely on it to be effective. safe pallet design widens the gap between the best killers and the weaker killers on map design. Anti-loop shrinks the gap. I would say if every pallet was unsafe, than every match for every killer would be closer to Nurse or Blight match. There would be less killer disparity. Those safe pallets create huge killer disparity.
Survivors will still escape Aritist or Nemesis as much they do now, but their chase powers will be less useful in comparison to the current pallets.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/320994/is-looping-no-longer-a-thing
Nope. Completely accurate. Ever since oracle completely wrecked true with holding W and pre throwing. It's become very popular
It's also why people hate both nurse and blight. Because you can't just mindlessly hold W and throw against them.
Even before Oracle did that, this strategy for survivor has been working for years. I first noticed this about 4 years ago, around 2017 early 2018 when playing survivor
@UnKn0wN45 Pallet looping and Window looping is greeding mechanic that survivor are capable of doing against weaker killers. It is still very much a thing, but in most maps, you do not need to loop very well to escape because there is large amount of pallets that are both safe to loop and force the killer to break the pallet once dropped. so yes you do not need to conserve pallets to win if your team is efficient at generator objective.
preserve pallets was always just a myth. Shelter wood is perhaps only map where the myth might be partly true. I'm sure that MMR reveals a lot of false narratives.
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@Blueberry said:
They treated the reveal tweaks as more of a QoL however in reality it was a massive nerf as it is significantly easier to reveal him now. I’d even go as far as to say that his reveal nerf outweighs his buffs landing him actually weaker now when the PTB changes were intended to actually improve him. Regardless he needed a lot more buffs than he got, still terrible.
I mean they follow casual survivors that had trouble breaking him out while everyone who was experienced as survivor could break him with almost no effort. Add-ons feel worse as well. GF used to have 3 recovery add-ons and now he only has 1. New add-on are just as ineffective as old ones. Pretty sad that none of stealth killers are worth playing. every single one of them is awful.
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@Blueberry said:
C tier at best killer needs a nerf? Okay lol
impressive, that did not take very long. almost as good as dev wraith overtune comments on last year september.
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@Valik said:
Bubba is a contender, but I think Meyers takes the cake.
He's macho M1 man, but you have 3 steps to his power:
1.) Look at people.
2.) Stop looking at people when you're 99% to Tier 3.
3.) Look at healthy person just before you hit them.
You don't have to fake vaults, mind-game, path efficiently, respect pallets, manage heat. Nothing.
Meyers is, by far, the lowest skill ceiling there is.
Once you follow the 3 steps which takes all the skill of:
Being able to look at people
You basically learned the killer to completion.
He's Bubba without the AOE insta-down chainsaw, He's Freddy without the TP or dream passives, he's Huntress with 5% Haste and no hatchets.
He's just an M1 machete man with 3 steps to becoming M1 Machete Man+
he is lowest skill-floor and lowest skill-ceiling in the game but he is not strongest. bubba does fit the lowest skill-floor though I don't know if he really fits lowest skill-ceiling. He is probably strongest for having lowest skill-floor in comparison to other killers that are strong.
Almost all killers that are strong have medium-high skill ceiling. that is because even when your an playing an mechanically easy killer, Winning is still difficult against strong survivor players.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2921762#Comment_2921762
"Not exactly. it would hurt casual survivors more, in other words they would go from winning sometimes to winning never where as more skilled survivors would lose more often but would still win every now again."
But if it's lowering their mmr than that would not be the case. They would go against worse and worse killers until they were low enough mmr that they were losing only the same amount as they were previously. IE they'd end up with the same difficulty of matches.
"demographically speaking, in most games, there is like top 10% of players that are outstanding and really good. I would say about 20% are like semi-competitive while the rest are casual. Not to be rude or anything, but most of m1 killers were never truly in a good spot. they were always lackluster. Its just that you as killer were typically facing the less good survivors in most matches. Its whole question whether you balance around 30% goodish players or 70%."
I completely agree.
"A recent post that I have been seeing lately is how steam charts are negative and how MMR is hurting the game. I'd say a lot of m1 killers not being viable might be hurting the game. MMR just exposes the bad balance for killers."
Oh of course. The main reason mmr is hated is because it's forcing people into unfair and unbalanced matches. If hypothetically the game was pretty well balanced I don't think people would mind mmr nearly as much. I think people (myself included) prefer the old grade matchmaking not because it was "better" per say, but actually because it was worse. It being worse covered up the games balance problems by mixing in a lot more average players. MMR forces me to play a lot of matches that are literally unwinnable, that is not fun. I don't mind losing, what I do mind is losing when I never actually got outplayed, I just lost through balance problems. Which is something totally out of my control and not something i can improve on.
Typically when I lose on survivor I can point out the spots where me or my team misplayed to improve on for next time. That is not nearly the case on killer. You can play perfectly and still lose, that's what frustrates people.
But if it's lowering their mmr than that would not be the case. They would go against worse and worse killers until they were low enough mmr that they were losing only the same amount as they were previously. IE they'd end up with the same difficulty of matches.
What I meaning to say is that the game becomes more killer-sided overall leading to lower escape rate. Strong players use same loops as weaker players. Its just that weaker players use the loops less effectively. so what was once weaker survivors escaping sometimes out of survivor bias map design now survivors seldomly escaping.
You see this a lot of weaker survivor maps, for example recently, the dev posted that midwich elementary school is deadliest killer map. A vast majority of pallet loops on that map are very fair for killer. they're unsafe enough that most killers can win chases at the pallets. Newish survivors probably get lost finding generators on that map and using the pallets to waste the killers time is difficult. Does that mean that nobody ever escapes midwich elementary school? Of course not.
Imagine every map being as unsafe pallet-wise as Midwich elementary school. for casual players, you would have much lower escape rate for survivor. This kinda what your aiming for in your statement.
Here's controversial statement about killer. base movement speed for killer is meaningless statistic in current iteration of the game. The better loopers and efficient objective players are able to use the maps so well that it renders the base killers ineffective. A lot of stronger killers are well... non-standard m/s killers. Even the ones that were strong as 115% m/s e.g old billy or current blight have highly exaggerated movement speed. Its always about their killer power. Killers express their skill through killer powers, not their movement speed.
MMR forces me to play a lot of matches that are literally unwinnable, that is not fun.
yeah well welcome to killer life. Its like wow, your good at killer, well too bad. you have to lose half your matches. you never really get completely used to it as killer but I think it grows on you over-time as killer. it is terrible for competitive mindset players.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2921179#Comment_2921179
I agree with your points as well.
Hypothetical here: If you did balance top-down and now all those pallets were more balanced for the high end but as you said all deadly for bad survivors, wouldn't the end result just be their hidden mmr lowering?
IE other than losing a few early matches the only real thing that would change is their mmr until they were down to a level that they were winning and losing exactly as much as they were before. Except now we'd actually also have the top end balanced. Meaning balancing for the top end wouldn't technically hurt the lower people in the end.
Hypothetical here: If you did balance top-down and now all those pallets were more balanced for the high end but as you said all deadly for bad survivors, wouldn't the end result just be their hidden mmr lowering?
Not exactly. it would hurt casual survivors more, in other words they would go from winning sometimes to winning never where as more skilled survivors would lose more often but would still win every now again.
demographically speaking, in most games, there is like top 10% of players that are outstanding and really good. I would say about 20% are like semi-competitive while the rest are casual. Not to be rude or anything, but most of m1 killers were never truly in a good spot. they were always lackluster. Its just that you as killer were typically facing the less good survivors in most matches. Its whole question whether you balance around 30% goodish players or 70%.
A recent post that I have been seeing lately is how steam charts are negative and how MMR is hurting the game. I'd say a lot of m1 killers not being viable might be hurting the game. MMR just exposes the bad balance for killers.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2921275#Comment_2921275
I actually gathered the complete opposite from her Condemn, illustrated by the fact to get rid of the tape it forces you to go to the farthest away tv. Also, the devs don't like more deadly insta-kill mechanics demonstrated by Pig. The party hats are for wasting time, their deadliness is just motivation to get them off. They've reiterated this philosophy on dev streams as well. I think the main point of Condemn is to waste time.
The Condemn increase on basic attack sounds good to me.
I basically just want the flicker to last longer and happen more often.
If dev stream is saying that, than their speech does not correlate to the current game mechanics of her ability. I think farthest TV mechanic is related to freddy's dream clocks mechanic, most likely copy-paste.
Everything about her condemn points to condemn being the defining win condition to her ability. That is why many players feel she is so weak because her defining win condition is ineffective. Killing survivors by hooking them is legit faster than building condemn currently.
If you want slowdown mechanic with mori's, just... play pig.
I would rather not bother with feedback on her because she has so many survivor-type mechanics that I do not want bother with feedback. Many of your changes would be to be implemented regarding Lullaby, directional audio cue and removal slowdown manifestation would need to occur first before sadako becomes anything close to desirable to play for killer-side.
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@Blueberry said:
-Remove lullaby, it defeats the entire point of being a stealth killer.
-Remove slowdown switching between phases. Her Demanifested isn't good enough to warrant this, she doesn't get a speed up like Wraith or anything.
-Condemn builds up passively. The survivors should need to be more worried about it than they currently are and need to waste time lowering it. I don't want Exposed added like some people have mentioned because I don't want Condemn to be more deadly, I just want it to slow the survivors down on gens with a secondary objective.
-Remove the directional queue of her teleporting. It's bad enough they get a global queue, the location as well is too much. It's not too difficult to be aware of the tv's around you, you can even hear them.
-Amp up her passive phasing to give it a little more reliability in anti-loop. Make it more frequent and last longer. I like that this also increases her skill gap of good players as they will get better at trying to time their direction changes with her disappearances.
I do not think sadako's condemn is intentionally meant to be slowdown. There are huge tell-tell signs of this. For one, doing a TV only takes 3 seconds which is less than killer cooldown animation. Her tapes do not drop item like pinhead's box. Her meme add-on drawback is that you lose the ability to build up condemn stacks on TV.
Its pretty clear that unlike say pig's boxes, her mechanic is completely intentionally designed to kill the survivor. In a world where sadako is strong, She should be getting no hooks and 4 mori kills every match. It is very canonical accurate for survivors to die in 7 days. Very fitting for her lore.
I would do following change to condemn
-Basic attacks increase condemn meter by 1.
It would help her build-up condemn. I'd say reason she cannot condemn any survivor is that there is no reliable way to build it up. Its based off survivors actions. Its like worse then plague's power in term of survivor control over ability. This would give her a bit more control on build-up.
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Amp up her passive phasing to give it a little more reliability in anti-loop. Make it more frequent and last longer. I like that this also increases her skill gap of good players as they will get better at trying to time their direction changes with her disappearances.
I think a better way to fix this is instead of having 1 second flickers every sec, change this mechanic to be 3 second flickers once. This would really help her in the chase.
The change would be something like:
-Decreased flicker period to 0.5
-Increased flicker duration to 3 seconds
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I agree with rest of changes, Lullaby is terrible for stealth killer. Directional audio TV cripples her mobility and stealth.
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I feel like your effect could be a new perk for killer. I'd say it would be better for fire up to have stronger numbers as this perk is one you rarely see as survivor if at all.
I am not entirely sure what number would make players try to run the perk. Perhaps 5%-6%? Would 6% fire up really be that crazy? You lose 3 gens, you gain 18% pallet break, a little less brutal strength and you get 10% extra reward for losing all of them in endgame.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vx08Gy5Ny4@mischiefmanaged said:
A few reasons in combination with each other. OhTofu actually did a video before MMR was released that did a pretty good job summarizing the problem with ranks that I'll link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YJPOW7bwgs.
Some specific technical reasons that caused the above problem.
- It was possible for both sides to "win" and increase their rank. This meant that everyone eventually reached red ranks.
- Matchmaking matched you with at most one color away. This meant that a rank 1 killer would get matched with anyone from rank 1 to rank 8. This was a huge range and accounted for about 40% of the possible ranks.
- Literally impossible to pip down until you got to rank 16. This meant rank 17 was effectively the bottom. If you played the game for maybe 10-20 hours you would be rank 17.
- Hatch usually gave you a pip or at least forced a safety pip at pretty much all ranks. If you played stealthy with Urban Evasion and Left Behind you could reach red ranks after playing enough time while basically killing your entire team because you forced the rest of your team into a 3v1.
- Safety pips were incredibly easy to get. The only time when safety pips required some skill whatsoever was in red ranks, but you would still get matched with red ranks if you were purple.
- Farm matches, which are usually initiated by the killer with the survivor having little to no choice, would give +2 pips without any way to pip back down.
- Farm matches were common at higher ranks too because farmers got +2 pips too as you could pip up without getting a single kill. Now, farm matches are pretty much relegated to low MMR where new players can get some more bloodpoints and have a bit of relaxing fun. Those of us who want to just play the game can play the game. Unfortunately, my survivor MMR is very low since I don't play it often and I'm bad so I still have to waste time dealing with farmers.
These all in combination with each other meant that most people who played the game more than a few times a month would end up in at least purple ranks. Purple ranks get matched with red ranks. This likely meant that a majority of the population was just thrown into the same matchmaking pool which meant that matchmaking was essentially random. This heavily favored killers because a good survivor with bad teammates would still lose because this game is basically impossible for survivors as a 3v1.
Now, with MMR, it's basically mathematically guaranteed that the majority of the population will be in the middle and the ends will be occupied by fewer people. If they translated our hidden MMR numbers to ranks, you'd probably find most people and matches in green ranks and there would be very few red rank players. Everyone on the forum talks about "at high MMR" but there's a very good chance none of those people are anywhere close to high MMR but, because matchmaking is more balanced, it feels like what high MMR would feel like. We know from what the developers have said that very few people are at the top and bottom.
People in this game are very limited by how rank-based matchmaking worked. It was so common for people to get to red ranks within 100 hours of playing the game that it felt normal. A proper matchmaking system will have very few people at the top. Not a majority of the player base!
You should make detailed list of his points in this new video.