Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3008881#Comment_3008881
Can't say I'm not surprised they don't even acknowledge this as a bug.
Doubt they even understand why it works like this in the first place.
its hard to notice as nurse because your already moving so fast. you only really notice the effect on survivor-side because like I said, if your near nurse death radius, you kinda just die. Its why I never really loved/liked playing against nurse, even post-changes as your skill on survivor means very little, but that is ironic for rest of killer cast because your killer skill when playing other killers means very little. Chadku post explains it better. I always knew it worked like that, but I thought the blink would scale faster after passing the 20 meter marker given that they **fixed omega blink many years ago. I guess they fixed part of the problem, but not all of the problem.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2998042#Comment_2998042
If a nurse is walking, then as they're slower than a survivor the survivor can easily make distance on them - so they can't gain bloodlust for example. Then when they do blink - you have options as a survivor about which way to go, whether you double back, or have gained enough distance where you know the blink will be inaccurate.
If a nurse is walking, sorry but chances are they are not a good nurse and are wasting a lot of time, and are going to fail to pressurise the gens.
With ranged add-ons, you don't really have that option from blink movement speed. at least now it makes sense why it feels like whenever you get zoned by nurse, you just instant die from being too close to nurse as survivor. that is somewhat of trick I use when playing nurse if the survivor end up outplaying my long-range blinks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x-shHZpCzgOtz put a video out displaying the bug/exploit of the add-on.
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@LiunUK said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x-shHZpCzg&ab_channel=notOtzdarva
posted less than an hour ago
wow... I never knew that the range add-on give blink movement speed for nurse. That used to be an old add-on for grey wooden horse add-on for nurse. No wonder old omega blink nurse was so powerful, no cooldown, map-wide blinks, lower charge time. faster blink movement speed. Just crazy.
well the add-on does not state that they increases blink movement speed, so that is bug that needs to be fixed, I'm honestly not sure how I ever escape these nurses with those add-ons. I guess the crazy gen speed and dead hard does a lot.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3007609#Comment_3007609
Okay, I do stand corrected on the user thing. I thought the 15 percent efficiency loss only applied to one survivor but it seems it does apply to both which means Prove Thyself should apply to both as well.
However, my calculations should still correct based on how the game does percentages. It doesn't add or subtract a flat 15%. It does it based on the number itself. So if a person does 1/c a second on a gen, it will become .85/c a second when with someone else.
With Prove Thyself it doesn't add the .15/c loss back. It takes 15% of .85 which is around .1275 which we can round to .13 This means when survivors are working together they are only doing .98/c which is why the bar is red instead of gray when working with someone using Prove Thyself.
Now lets go even further and say it did work by adding a flat 15%. This would then save time only on the final gen, which would be 7, 12 and 16 seconds respectively with two, three and four people.
As far as I know this should be how the calculations are done. At least this is how they were done.
I did not want to go into detail for how it works, but thankfully you went through details to explain it. I would say for the user reading a tooltip, they would expect the perk null repair penalty speed. 15%-15% is suppose to be 0. how it works in back end for programmer should not concern the user/player, though you could argue the tooltip is wrong as it inaccurate displays information for the user.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3006487#Comment_3006487
While I agree overzealous is useless, I disagree with your assessment of Prove Thyself since again, the time save only comes from negating the efficiency lost. Solo gens and then cooping the last is nearly as fast as Prove Thyself and a bit more consistent since you don't have to worry about 2 people getting knocked off a gen. Prove Thyself also doesn't give 30%, it gives 15% as it doesn't effect the user, only the person next to you.
Let's compare solo gens to two Prove Thyself group gens with no interaction from the killer at all.
Solo- Four gens done in 80 seconds with the 5th gen done together in about 47 seconds with two people. 127 seconds total for all gens not counting movement time.
Two Prove thyself groups- Two gens in 41 seconds, followed by another Two in 41 seconds and the last one in 41 with two people. 123 seconds total for all gens not counting movement time.
Not including movement time Prove Thyself will only save 4 seconds altogether. With 3 people coop-ing the last gen, the time difference is 7 seconds and four people is around 9 seconds. Again for reference, a single commodious with no add-ons saves a flat 11 seconds.
I'm not saying Prove Thyself is bad as the extra time you do get can help destroy a 3 gen or slam out the final gen which those few extra seconds saved can be the difference. The perk just isn't as extreme as people think it is.
it gives 15% as it doesn't effect the user, only the person next to you.
This is wrong. It does affect both the user and the person repairing the generator with you. Its currently slightly bugged. Its suppose increase repair speed by 15% for both users for total of 30%, but currently it gives only 26% speed bonus.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3006619#Comment_3006619
Because Nurse moves at 3.8m/s. She literally can't hit survivors without using her power. Both Oni and Nurse have drawbacks accompanying their power.
you could make nurse 4.6 and make her not start with her power. 2 hits required to blink for 45 seconds. -7 duration when nurse down someone with ability.
maybe they do that given that there has been recent amount of nurse-complaints lately, what huge nerf that would be to nurse.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
I think people really overestimate prove thyself. It's not a bad perk by any means but it's hardly OP.
It saves about 6 seconds with 2 people, 8 seconds with 3 and around 11 with 4. This time save is also not nearly as efficient as soloing gens as the time save comes from negating the efficiency loss of working together. As in, it takes 80 seconds to solo a gen and 41 with prove thyself where otherwise it'd take 47.
It's more useful for knocking out a problematic gen and maxing objective rather then straight up rushing them.
For reference, the base brown toolbox with no add-ons saves around 5 seconds while the commodious saves around 11, again no add-ons. Toolboxs can also be brought by everyone without needing to waste a perk slot or needing someone else to get the benefit.
I think Prove Thyself is perfectly fine as it's basically just a toolbox in perk form.
the problem is that it increases repair speed by 30% by counter-acting the penalty, 30% is a lot of repair speed. co-op 2-3 gens which the survivor will naturally do based off the teamwork nature of the game saves 6-7 seconds per gen. If you co-op all 5 generators, you reduce total objective time by 30-34 seconds. that is like the killer using current pain resonance nearly 3 times, each pain resonance is 12 seconds. so it does ~44% progression.
I don't think anyone overestimates the perk. If anything this perk is underestimated because its not used enough despite having near game-breaking effect. Its pick-rate is way too low in my opinion. I think survivor would overall win a lot more often if they used this perk due to fast-objective time.
As Peanut states, there is only so many perks that can get changed in 1 chapter. Overzealous is completely useless because it takes 15 seconds to cleanse a totem+the time to find a totem, so in order to gain anything from 6% repair speed, you'd have to do a minimum of 3 generators to counter-act cleansing time and +2 generators if you don't find the totem right away. This isn't talking about how the perk disables upon any injury. current Overzealous perk is worse than not bringing it. it is No-mither-levels
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3006355#Comment_3006355
Honestly, I don't think he needed that either.
Getting shot from outside the TR was something the Killer had very little influence over and if it did happen it was a direct result of a misplay from the Survivor side (starts with simple things like not seeing the tall cowboy pointing his gun at you in the distance or hearing the loud bell ring in your ears and went all the way to not having good positioning / Killer tracking).
Not to mention that, as you mentioned yourself, the Killer had to bring Monitor & Abuse AND a tracking Perk that would allow them to locate the Survivors from far away (e.g. A Nurses Calling) just to make this a possibility. So not only was it inconsistent and could be accounted for (and therefore avoided) by Survivors, but it also had a high price for the Killer to pay.
He was in such a good balance spot - but as we all know, balanced = boring, so they gutted him.
I agree, he did not deserve changes. M&A was not generator defense perk. Nurse calling wasn't even that good for him because he doesn't cone the map very well due to his 110% m/s.
Deathslinger just needs revert. He got legion-treatment from may 2018. Given that it took 3 years for bvhr to improve legion(who still isn't that great but better than before), 3 years for deathslinger to get his revert is looking at 2024 DBD, so comeback around that time to see deathslinger.
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@toxik_survivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3005666#Comment_3005666
That's too much work for BHVR- not just shitting on BHVR but that would be a project that would take a year if not more, I don't think BHVR or anyone would be willing to do that (it would obv sacrifice alot of other content.)
high-level SWF w/ voice chat and Solo are never going to be completely equal however they can put them closer than what they are now with the Icons/information.
The biggest advantage that SWF has over solo is their efficiency at the generator objective. games just go 2x quicker for killer, so even when SWF do terrible killer looping(often worse than solo-Q looping), they generally still get 2-3 escapes out because of how well they optimize the generator objective.
that's why if swf are successful at looping the killer, even a little bit, The killer loses the game with like 1-2 hooks total. This can happen in soloQ as well but usually with soloQ, When SoloQ is optimized at doing the objective in say 5 minutes, It feels more like star-aligning. soloQ still get job done in term of winning a lot of the time, but it is a bit less consistent in terms of speed.
The only problem I see though is that if soloq does become as efficient as high-lvl swf, a good 50-75% of killer-cast is going to be completely useless. we're going get glimmer of that once dev's eliminate the effective meta generator defence perks very shortly. at least they'll get better data i guess. silver-lining.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3000842#Comment_3000842
Half the time would be such an exaggerated nerf. Just make it so you can actually see within the radius you are supposed to see a bit easier. Like reducing or removing the vignette effect that darkens the edges of the screen.
I also think his teleport cooldown is completely fine at the moment, 12 seconds is definitely enough to balance it out. Maybe 14 or 15 seconds would still work well, but again, I think that would be unnecessary, at the moment at least. Good map pressure is what makes this killer actually strong and balanced.
in PTB, the radius was 16 meters. in current live. its about 12 meters line of sight. I'm not sure what nerf your asking for? increase of nightfall distance by +2 for 14 meters of sight? It would just return to its PTB completely pointless form.
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
He needs buffs tbh
I wish his purple add-ons were better.
Boat key increases his locker teleport speed by 25% during day time.... why daytime... why not night time. The day time TP is kinda pointless.
Why does field recorder apply exhaustion when the survivor touches remnant? why isn't it applies 15 second of exhaustion after re-winding for 5 seconds, similar to wraith's blind warrior add-on or sadako's iri-tape add-on.
Lavalier Microphone would be an amazing tracking add-on if it applied on first locker instead of 3rd locker.
Tilling blade makes no sense for an add-on. For one, why does it have a timer of 60 seconds on mangled? mangled effect is suppose to be permanent. The add-on sounds like it should be written as Survivors during Nightfall suffer Blindness, Mangled and Haemorrhage.
I'd say his add-on could use some improvement. some very strange add-on descriptions in my opinion. I feel like he has chance to be really good vs good survivor teams if some of these add-ons were improved.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2997501#Comment_2997501
Hmmm. I don't think that's totally accurate. While running a jungle gym he can throw knives and injure you, hit by hit. Other Killers would have to be close to you to land a hit, or aim and guess very carefully like Pyramid Head. Trickster can injure you more easily, just by getting a glimpse of you, especially if he's smart with his knives. In my experience, Tricksters have done poorly more so when they mess up, not when the Survivors do.
dodging his knifes between each corner is part of the skill behind properly countering trickster. if anything his counter-play is based off empty all 44 of his knifes by any mean necessary. This logic also applies to deathslinger's single shot and huntress 5 hatchets.
I wouldn't say its super easy or anything, but the fact that his movement speed is 96% in throwing mode for ranged killer who is forced to throw knifes for extensive period of time or be 110% m1 is huge problem for his balance. He basically doesn't get to shoot his 44 knifes if the survivor is effective at utilizing Line of sight blockers. The few times he gets to shoot, the survivors can outplay it.
Because his chase under performs so heavily, many trickster players simply just hard-camp hooks and proxy camp 24/7 on every hook. He's not fun to play against as survivor purely because the killer player is not confident in winning chases from being underpowered. He really should have 110% m/s in throwing mode so that tricksters have more confidence in winning chases over just hard-camp hooks and looking for altruistic kills 24/7.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996881#Comment_2996881
I did not skip that Rancor was in the build. Rancor already makes the Obsession Exposed all on its own at the end of the match. And doing the “I’ll switch obsessions after the gens are done and I kill the first one so I can get multiple Rancor kills” is the very definition of a meme build.
And I’m not saying you shouldn’t play things that aren’t fun. I’m saying Furtive Chase is actually doing very, very little for you in that build. You could definitely do better with the first three perks (Make Your Choice plus Nemesis plus Rancor) plus just about any other decent perk. Do you want to be stealthy mid match for instance? Try Trail of Torment or Dark Devotion or Hex: Plaything, for example, you’d actually be Undetectable or make them Oblivious both in and out of chase versus just having a slightly smaller terror radius only when you are in chase.
they need to improve the perk to give stacking terror radius reduction outside the chase like Blueberry suggested. previous change did not improve the perk enough to be useful. its funny that people defend terrible perks to justify their existence.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
Since next patch or the patch after that Pain resonance is gonna get nerfed, I have an idea to nerf it:
- The gen loses the progress, but doesn't keep regressing and stops.
This was it's not as strong with DMS, gens cannot regress across the map, but you still get the 15%.
the perk has 45% pick-rate with corrupt intervention. Jolt had like 15% pick-rate, so very likely the instant regression will be toned down with Jolt-levels which is around 8% or so. Pop was like 40% pick-rate as well, so that's likely going down to like 12% as well. just my predictions.
not sure what will occur with BBQ and Corrupt. BP removed and maybe put on another perk like distressing? Corrupt is also mystery. Will they make it block for less time? or block less gens, like 2 gens instead 3. Guess we'll just have to find out when the update hits.
Ruin was also high-pick rate perk. Mandy did say that there will be base-kit changes.. so maybe higher base regression, but ruin regression being less effective, like say gens regress at 200% default, ruin applies 50% of base-regression automatically, so ruin regress gens at 400% slower, but its automatic. that would nerf ruin.
that just spitballing a bunch of negative changes that will surely weaken killer meta. the survivor meta is more what I'm curious about as it hasn't changed for 5 years, so them getting meta change is like so massive.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995324#Comment_2995324
I'm thinking that because they've also talked about having a more regular internal schedule for balance passes on new characters which seems to be roughly six months after release they do a pass. And this mid-chapter coming up would fit the bill for Sadako.
And she's not nearly as flawed as you're making her out to be. She's roughly on par with Wraith overall, about a 2 out of 5 star killer. If they do end up buffing her they only would probably need to tweak a couple of things. And a bunch of the changes that are commonly suggested like reducing her TV cooldown times or giving people passive Condemned buildup or removing the lullaby are presumably not that complicated to program, especially the purely numerical tweaks like changing a cooldown or how long she's invisible, etc. None of it is a big rework.
Also note that she doesn't need a "reliable way to mori survivors", she just needs her Condemned to be enough of a threat that if survivors don't deal with the stacks then it becomes a way they can get killed. But the killing isn't the main thing, it's the slowdown from getting survivors to run around touching TVs to get rid of stacks rather doing gens. It's a bit like how Pig's traps aren't a "realible way to kill survivors" but are instead something that provides her passive slowdown since if the survivors don't deal with them they become a threat. (And by the way, if she uses her Green add-on that curses survivors who revive and heal each other it's not uncommon for her to get a kill from it because of how much that increases the rate the stacks go out. So while it's not too common base kit to get a kill with Condemned that particular add-on makes it quite a bit more of a threat.)
Also note that she doesn't need a "reliable way to mori survivors", she just needs her Condemned to be enough of a threat that if survivors don't deal with the stacks then it becomes a way they can get killed. But the killing isn't the main thing, it's the slowdown from getting survivors to run around touching TVs to get rid of stacks rather doing gens.
Judging from her meme bloodpoint add-on, it is definitely not suppose to be slowdown. The condemn mechanic is entirely designed to kill survivors. Its part of her lore, die in 7 days. You just don't notice it while playing survivor because the mechanic is extremely under tuned to the point it does terrible job. Nobody really bothers with her tape mechanic for how weak it is.
Its because only way to build stacks is for survivor to be within 16 meter of TV Projection or grab a tape. Also healing if Sadako uses her ring drawing add-on. All these actions are based off the survivor actions, not the killer. Overall, building condemn just takes forever.
In-game, when you hit survivor with m1, a japanese Glyph written glyph shows up with the word "Cursed". I think that her M1 attacks should fill 1 bar of condemn, similar to how freddy puts people into dream world automatically after hitting them with an m1 attack.
Overall, her gameplay loop is suppose to be TV TP(1 stack of condemn)->hit->survivor heals(Spread 1 condemn from green add-on), rince repeat until the survivor is at 7 stacks in which you can mori. Overall, you get 2 stacks of condemn per TV teleport hit, but overall its gameplay is just way too slow and ineffective.
If she applied 1 stack of condemn on m1's, She would build 3 stacks of condemn assuming the survivor completes her gameplay loop. After two times, You'd have 6 stacks of condemn build-up and picking up the tape gives 1 condemn stack, So your in Mori territory.
Just that single change alone would improve her likely hood to mori by a lot. She still has problem #2, #3, #4, #5 for her to become real threat since other parts of her kit have major weaknesses.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995473#Comment_2995473
You can bodyblock survivors at that point, you dont become intangible when dead harding, just invincible. Just bodyblock and bam, free down. So, that is your "argument" entirely debunked.
just change orientation, you'll never really be able to fully bodyblock the dead hard and even if dash isn't perfectly dead on the pallet, you'll still be able to put it down. there's also the fact that since the dead hard would be automatic, survivors could also camp pallets until you swing and dead hard in place. the cooldown of missed swing would be enough to put down the pallet. I just don't see really the difference. you'll still make windows by dead harding in place and put down pallets all the same while just having 100% iframe accuracy like those auto-dead hard cheats that some player reported.
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@Predated said:
Yeah, my issue with DH is basically that survivors get to choose when to use it, I personally think if DH was simply an "activate when a hit is detected" perk, it would still be quite annoying, but it would have a ton of counterplay for a lot of killers. It can no longer be used to dash over Trapper's traps. It can no longer be used to close the gap to a pallet, in fact, you can swing early on purpose to trigger the dead hard so they are forced into a dash to the opposite side, so you can block them off from dropping the pallet. Same would be true for windows.
It would be a very annoying perk to deal with in a lot of scenario's, but it would have some actual counterplay.
I am of the opinion that SB is currently the most powerful survivor perk in the game in terms of direct effect. I think this change wouldnt really nerf DH in terms of power, it would just nerf it's utility, because DH might not be the strongest, but it definitely has by far the most utility.
people could just stand exactly like 5 meters next to the pallet and the killer would be forced to swing to waste dead hard, than the survivor could put down pallet because the killer has missed cooldown. you'd basically iframe every attack without needing the skill to time dead hard in first place while still being able to utilize it for its distance. Basically it just lowers skill-cap for dead hard while keeping its power-level very similar, if not stronger given that now casual players can use dead hard more effectively rather than using it into walls.
SB is balanced because in order to use SB like you do with dead hard, you have to sacrifice generator efficiency 99% sprint burst to use it in a chase. The walking constantly/running mindlessly is like the killer getting a free generator defense perk. The alternative of not wasting sprint burst and doing generators efficiently means that sprint burst will always get used at the start of a chase which gives killer more control for whether he/she wishes to take the chase.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995151#Comment_2995151
Yeahhhhhhh, no.
I am not against buffing weak killers. But you can not buff them to Nurse level. There is problems;
- Nurse and Blight are S-tier killer for a reason. Both killers needs high skills. Casual killers can not use them very well, you need to pratice and learn.
- Wraith, Legion, Trapper etc are easy to learn killers. If you bring them to S-tier, people will play easy killers. Easy killers should not have strong powers.
- Like i said, killers are already op against low tier survivors. Everyone are not playing this game for long days. People are playing this game after work, school for couple games. You can not expect from casuals to be good players. They have not time to pratice those things. They will just leave game, if game stops being fun. Your suggestion is making game unfun for casual survivors.
- Killers have long queues when BHVR releasing new chapters. And imagine if all killers be Nurse level, more people will play killer. Less people will play surv. And plus people will leave game if they can not enjoy with surv. Result = Really long killer queues. You need 4 survivor for match. If you make game pain for survivors, less people will play surv. I'd leave game if all killers became to Nurse level and i am not even surv main.
- Tunnel and camp are strong strategies. Even Nurse and Blights are tunnelling when they want. So this strategies would be worse.
- Solo survivors have not enough information like SWF teams. You would destroy Solo-q exp, it is already so bad atm.
We need better balance. But balancing game around Nurse is not healthy for sure.
Wraith, Legion, Trapper etc are easy to learn killers. If you bring them to S-tier, people will play easy killers. Easy killers should not have strong powers.
Not really. The people that enjoy blight or nurse will still play blight and nurse. Its more that people that main those killers will be rewarded more for mastering those other killers. It just means that at higher MMR for survivor, you get more killer variety because instead of facing nurse/blight 24/7, you face nurse blight and like... let's say Otz maining trapper if trapper was viable.
If Oni was made viable for higher MMR, you'd be facing nurse/blight/Oni and well... people would be calling Oni S-tier which he has a lot of potential to be strong killer.
Like i said, killers are already op against low tier survivors. Everyone are not playing this game for long days. People are playing this game after work, school for couple games. You can not expect from casuals to be good players. They have not time to pratice those things. They will just leave game, if game stops being fun. Your suggestion is making game unfun for casual survivors.
By that logic, Nurse and Blight are unfun for casual survivors and yet the game functions fine with them being as strong as they are. Casual survivors are suppose to lose to more experienced killer players just like lesser experienced killers are suppose to lose to survivor that loop well and are efficient at the objective if they play nurse/blight badly.
Killers have long queues when BHVR releasing new chapters. And imagine if all killers be Nurse level, more people will play killer. Less people will play surv. And plus people will leave game if they can not enjoy with surv. Result = Really long killer queues.
In the very near future, The role that lacks players will be receiving bonus bloodpoints. I highly suspect that Killer-role will constantly have +100% BP for shortage of killers. that's my speculation. If this turns out to be true, than maybe we need more killers and less survivors anyway at that point.
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@dugman said:
Sadako hasn't had her full balance pass yet, they'll probably do one in the next midchapter patch.
what makes you think that? they're updating 40 perks and adjusting the perk/grind system in next midchapter. that's a lot of work to change that many perks.
Its way more than what changed in September last year.
She has way too many flaws in her ability such as
1) no reliable way to build condemn stacks to .... mori survivors
2) telegraphed tv's that emit directional audio cue when used
3) lullaby rendering undetectable ineffective
4) longer cooldown for mobility(compared to other killers)
5) very poor form of invisibility for chases
dunno, I think they're too busy with the perks to make changes for her. I think she needs to be postponed till november before any changes occur to killers themselves.
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@Blueberry said:
Surprised how many people think that would be OP, I mean calling it a free down at start? Seriously? That’s just ridiculous. It’s not like you get a global queue telling you he’s activated his power as a heads up..or to actually have eyes and see him rushing at you..or the fact that literally every single pallet is still up..or simply that he’s actually quite loopable even with his power up if you’re a good player. Yeah, he’d be fine with his power at start..so would almost every killer for that matter.
yeah he's really loopable in his ability. it feels wrong. it shouldn't be possible to 1vs1 his ability. only stall it. just another one of those dbd balances around bad survivor things.
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Dredge is going to be one of those killers where nightfall stomps weak survivors.
1) Survivors that do not understand the map layout of each pallet on the map will suffer from his nightfall mechanic
2) Survivors that are not effective at joining pallets and tile sets will fall for his Remanent
3) Directional audio cue when in nightfall might as well just give survivor's wall-hacks on the killer.
I think the only two strength that he has is that his mobility allows him to re-enter chases quickly after a hook and that he can zone-survivors with his Remanent if the loop is dead corner of the map.
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@cordonrouge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2993902#Comment_2993902
i didnt really think the numbers through, i just picked randomly as an example. i also said that both the stat stick and the proposed change could have the same value overall, but the "interactive" one would be infinitely better and healthier. also more fun = more healthy. keep in mind that this game sucks because most of the experiences it has to offer are really frustrating and therefore unfun, and therefore not. healthy.
take another look at my self care change, for example. it takes 32 seconds to self care. while with my version you could waste 26 looking for an herb, and 6 actually healing. same value, same balance, one is fun, the other is not. one has engaging gameplay, the other is looking at the screen for 32 seconds.
this is already a perk. Nancy has a perk called Inner strength(Now called Inner healing), You look for a totem, cleanse the totem, jump into a locker, You get 8 second heal.
The concept of grabbing herbs(item) than healing quickly is very close to Nancy's Inner strength perk. Its just dbd simplified.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2993323#Comment_2993323
Exactly, that's the point. His kit doesn't work, it's been this way for 3+ years and people have complained, at least i have, for 3+ years...He can't 1v1 and he can't 4v1. He just needs to be rethought, redesigned and rebuilt.
He can't be undetectable when he can be seen from anywhere by 4 people.He can't be undetectable when survivors have smaller bodies and can hide better than he can. He can't be undetectable when 3rd person perspective gives such a huge advantage plus people used to use stretched res aswell. The only times survivors are out in the open is during chases and not all the time or when they are doing gens or rescues. While doing gens they can choose wich gen to do and where to position themselves, same as rescues. They can minimalize the possibility of getting marked while GF literally has a 50/50 chance of either he gets an angle or he doesn't. And if he doesn't then being stealthy won't matter much either, you're not getting a 1 shot. Thus you have no power at all and you have nothing else to use so you can't do quick chases unless Survivor just screws up.
I find it impossible BHVR spent 6 months, suppposedly, and the changes they made still don't fix the GLARING and PAINFULLY TRAGIC issues of GF. THe changes they made could be done in days work FROM HOME...These aren't 6 months of analyzing and testing and deciding what to do.
I find it impossible BHVR spent 6 months, suppposedly, and the changes they made still don't fix the GLARING and PAINFULLY TRAGIC issues of GF. THe changes they made could be done in days work FROM HOME...These aren't 6 months of analyzing and testing and deciding what to do.
Well I believe Patrick in interview in new years stated that they tend to work on updates within like 6 months in advance. I can't really remember precise details but it was along those lines. dunno, I take their word for it, I guess?
He can't 1v1 and he can't 4v1. He just needs to be rethought, redesigned and rebuilt.
Well if your asking for my opinion, I think ghostface a lot of potential for stealth killer.
Let illustrate why. One of strongest strategy for survivors is to split up and optimize generator efficiency for survivor especially at the start of the game. A large reason why this is so effective as strategy is because all killers have large terror radius to see incoming killers. There is no real... fear/danger factor to going on generators.
Stealth killers like Ghostface are generally able to come close to survivors, sometimes even score hits before the opening chase. A big issue with their gameplay is that health-states against stealth killers are overly effective against them because they can be used as second-chance mechanics towards their ability and all stealth killers typically have pretty crap chases in regards to getting 2nd hits.
Luckily for MR. Ghostface, he has answer to that problem. He is suppose to be able to mark survivors and down them. Working solo generators as survivor is not suppose to be safe. Its suppose to be dangerous.
He can't be undetectable when he can be seen from anywhere by 4 people.He can't be undetectable when survivors have smaller bodies and can hide better than he can. He can't be undetectable when 3rd person perspective gives such a huge advantage plus people used to use stretched res aswell.
I think of her biggest issues is that survivor are not really afraid of ghostface's stalking/nightshroud itself because the current mechanisms for survivor allow the survivor to 1vs1 the stalking ability by revealing him before he can expose them. Personally, I think the ghostface should be favored to mark the survivor individually in 1vs1 scenario, but multiple survivors should be favored to break him out faster than he can stalk keeping the 4vs1 element of the game in tact. Overall I'd say his revealing should take about twice as long to completely reveal him.
This would force survivors to group up in pairs when working on generators and it would require more teamplay/teamwork to do generators against him as two people revealing him at the same time would equal the old reveal time. It would give him a better 4vs1.
Ok, so that's great, he can mark people now properly on isolated survivors. What about getting the hit on marked survivors?
My suggestion is to give ghostface a type of shadow dash that works similar to Sadako's spirit phasing where the ghostface skips in time and teleports rapidly a couple meters for very small duration in the direction he is facing, let's say 2.5 seconds(half of spirit phase-walk). If ghostface attacks(lunges) or the shadow dash expires, Nightshroud goes on cooldown. It would give him some sort of gap-closing tool after marking, so he could follow-up his marks to get an m1 down. It could give him that element of surprise, where he is like behind you since there would be no noise and he is undetectable. Might even be useful in certain loops if you time your time-skips right.
Here's rough sketch drawing for what shadow dash would look like.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2993253#Comment_2993253
So rework the 1 shot aspect instead of just denying him his power at all. You solve the problem, you don't create another problem. GF's situation is one of these math problems: You have 3 oranges, if you take 1 banana then how manny apples are left?
Point 1 Stalking and stealthing shouldn't be linked, it's stupid that GF's power is starring at people and the way to stop him is to just stare back at him but in doing so he can't either stalk or be stealthy. Point 2 it's Unfair for 4 people to be able to stare at GF while GF can only stare at 1 direction. Point 3 it's unfair for the third person camera perspective to be of such good use against GF. Point 4 it's riddiculous that you can reveal GF from so far away without GF ever realizing you were even there. At that point who is the Stalker role?
Point 5, stealth in DbD doesn't match with killers. If a killer is supposed to chase then he has to automatically make himself known. How can GF be a stealth killer then?
If you're not meant to be doing chases with GF then why is his power so easily defeated? UNLINK Stealth and Stalk...Let him stalk while he has TR and Stain or let him not have TR and Red Stain at all so that he can pick when he wants to stalk. Then you can reveal him and instead of Survivors killer instinct appearing for GF, it's GF's killer instinct that appears to survivors, so that if 1 person manages to reveal GF when he is trying to stalk thn the 4 get to know where he is at that moment.
It's simple, either let him choose when to stalk but he has stealth always or let him stalk always but choose when to use stealth. And rework the reveal mechanic so that you have to see GF's MASK without objects in between GF and the Survivor. It's unfair that some random guy is revealing me from a rooftop through a stupid hole when he is so far away and can only see my back.
I don't understand what is so hard for BHVR to think about these changes and think how conceptually flawed GF is in DbD.
The premise behind ghostface is based around 1 shots and undetectable status effect like an assassin in typical role-playing games. Its just that DBD dev are really bad at balancing his kit to functionally do 1 shot undetectable gameplay vs good survivors. Good survivors break ghostface out easily making ghostface a total joke while bad survivors are terrible at breaking him out. He is suppose to be good at marking survivors before they notice him and confirming the downs after he has successfully marked them. This is why his nightshroud and stalking are linked. He is just ineffective at his own gameplay.
Apart from exposed status effect itself, completing a mark does not give ghostface any better likelihood to confirm a hit, The mark just temporally for 60 seconds makes the survivor injured via exposed. He lacks chase enhancement skills to better confirm the targets he marks.
He already went through the supposed "rework" that took like 6+ months, so its unlikely that he is going get any improvements.
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@DyingWish92 said:
It should have 4 tokens like no way out and reduce your terror radius by 4 meters evwrytime you hook someone new. Also not just while in chase, PERIOD.
If they want more perks to be used and nuke the meta then start doing MEANINGFUL BUFFS!
just gotta wait for 40 perk update. maybe this perk is one of the perk on list. who knows?
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2989534#Comment_2989534
There is. If you run counter clockwise and use the side balcony vault it will always break chase and you can't catch up as killer.
if you referring to main-building, there is breakable wall on top vault near gen, though most people don't know about that semi-infinity loop. I don't normally break it unless the survivor knows the loop.
if your talking about buildings, there are holes you can fall through as killer and they're highly vulnerable to red glow mindgames.
@Malkhrim said:
The map is still mostly killer sided because it's one of the smallest maps in the game, and most of its loops are unsafe. However, I must say I still hate to play on it as killer. The loops with breakable walls, the main building and the safe gens on higher floors are things that can make it quite annoying. That's also why I disagree when someone says its the best map for killers, Midwich is better.
problem with midwich is that you can just stand on the other side of hallways and just loop in circles by hold-w in front of the killer for 2-3 loops while your outside of the chase as killer. This gets especially bad on killers like huntress, deathslinger, trickster who move at 110% m/s but cannot really shoot because missing/aiming down sight just slows them down for even more loops.
When you are about catch-up, the survivors.... have god pallets on either side of staircase and can break bloodlust repeating entire.... process again. A lot of midwich pallet loops are unsafe individually, but the issue is that a lot of pallets link into each other such that if you run them in a specific way, they become semi-safe, like for example the 2 pallets by the exit gate, the 3 pallets in library, some classes rooms have those breakable walls with the window+pallet.
I'd say killers that have mobility highly exploit the map really hard. Nurse for example has like.... global mobility on this map with almost no LOS breakers anywhere. Hag can place traps on every doorway and hallways, personally hate playing against midwich hag. Wraith is also really strong on the map, his heighten cloaking m/s prevents hallway looping and undetectable undeniable strong for generator positions.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
He has nothing special anymore. Why?
He has teleport power. Demo, Sadako and Dredge have better teleport abilities.
He has anti-loop but his anti-loop is almost joke.
He has worst killer add-ons in game.
I just looked how good is Nightfall and then look how bad Dream World is.
I did not try yet but i guess Haddie's flashlight perk is almost destroying him.
Freddy needs buffs or re-rework, what do you think?
he got reworked, buffed and than nerfed to the ground.
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implementing more anti-tunnel perks would just be creating multiple versions of dead hard, decisive strike(100% instant wiggle-off) and borrow-time(grant endurance-type perks).
A bigger question is, why should the killer spread hook-states evenly across entire team? There is currently no benefit for doing so. A survivor that is on 2 hook is same as a survivor that is on 0 hook in term of doing generators and healing. You just end up killing survivors slower as killer with no real reward at base-kit.
Killers would be less inclined to tunnel if they could win the game by not tunneling. Hex: Devour hope for example grants mori's after 5 unhooks have occured thereby disincentivizing tunneling as who get hooked does not matter. The killer get rewarded either way. Too bad the perk is a hex perk. Why do you think perks like pop goes weasel, pain: resonance and even BBQ get used? All of these perks activate when a survivor is hooked and reward the killer for hooking, so that the killer has less of a reason to directly tunnel and is more rewarded for hooking everyone.
If you watched 2022 anniversary stream. Matt.S stated that he(design team) aims to eliminate these clearly over-dominate perk trends. All the survivor perks mentioned are dominate perks so I can't imagine more anti-tunnel perks. The keyword eliminate sounds like developer team want less anti-tunnel perks, not more. You'll just have to wait and see for what changes after the 40 perk reworks have been revised.
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@Tostapane he is weak in ptb, so your out of luck. Almost nothing changes from PTB to launch.
I don't believe in the title in the post. Survivors don't want the killer to be scary. Survivors prefer the killer to be loopable scooby doo chases. I am not sure what coconut is talking about in regards to bugs. Nightfall had no bugs in PTB from few games that I played. I'm sure appearance matched developer expectations.
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@_AdamFrancis_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984742#Comment_2984742
I mean, I've been sandbagged and left to die on hook by mostly Kate's, so maybe I was too generous with that ranking 🤔
trickster is strong at camping hooks. Your teammate were making the right play. Some players refer to trickster as ranged bubba. Trickster has no wipe animation cooldown when using throwing knives and near unlimited lethality in his main event/throwing knife mode.
Trickster burn's healthstates and borrow time like butter.
Saving against him would just lead to more kills for the killer. Until facecamping becomes less effective overall, especially in end game, you can expect teammates to leave when the gates are opened. This will likely occur more often when Decisive strike & Borrow time will evidently get their negative changes in 40 perk rework update and you can also expect more camping to occur when Corrupt intervention, Scourage hook Pain resonance, Pop goes weasel(Popular generator defense perks) are put to rest in the inevitable future.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2981246#Comment_2981246
How do you do those super cool bar quote dealy-doos, I wanna do 'em ;-;
"I do not agree. I don't think there is anything unpredictable about current deathslinger. I think survivor has counter-play to to every action he takes and he has no control over the chase whatsoever."
A big part of his unpredictability is going for pinhole shots, and shooting over obstacles that don't look like they can be shot over. It's unlikely that a survivor knows every pinhole to avoid, unless they are also a Deathslinger main. You can also pre-aim when walking around a corner and the survivor is no longer able to react your shot, guaranteeing a hit. Hardscoping to zone someone out isn't unpredictable, but it's pretty impossible to deal with for the survivor. There's also all the regular M1 mind games, except you have a gun and can randomly start holding an angle on where you expect the survivor to come from.
Aiming and not shooting to trick survivors into juking is also good strat. If a survivor makes a read on you that you're not shooting after doing spam ADS a few times, you can suddenly """quickscope""" and land a hit. Now that survivor pretty much has no idea what to expect from you the next time you chase them and you start ADS'ing randomly.
"I think this sentence is clear indicative problem. Your literally throwing games in attempts to improve at the killer at an illusion that you'll improve at the killer in the future."
It's not an illusion. Every time I over-commit to a chase to find a pinhole in a loop that you can get a down with, I have that loop "solved" in my head. The next time I chase someone there, I down them in seconds because I know the solution to that loop. It's literally hard work and determination paying off in real time.
Long range shots, trick shots, and pulling people off ledges are all extremely fun, which is why people do it. I play Slinger because I find him fun, and enjoy the kinds of tricks you can do with him. If I wanted to win every game, I'd be be playing Nurse or something. I just find the "better" killers to be boring because they are too easy or require too little skill.
Slinger wins by virtue of having short chases, and doing !!!SCIENCE!!! to find the best strats on each loop is the best thing I can do to improve. Sadly, no one is interested in doing lab work in customs with me haha.
"Either way, this is good summary of what playing survivor feels like against Deathslinger. It is like practically waste of time because the killer-player is literally throwing games in attempts to do some fancy play that is not going anywhere. The killer to no one surprise loses and in my head its like "Can we just move on the next game? what a dull boring match.""
I generally stomp with Slinger most games, I'm not throwing every single match. I really only lose on big maps when survivors split on gens or against players with 4 times my playtime, but most killers lose in that situation anyway.
"Players do that with other killers because getting better at other killers has payoff/reward. He lacks payoff and he is less fun to play now which is why he is played less."
This is partly true. It can take a lot of effort to get a really good shot in, but even then you often can't get a down. No one has really and truly committed to pushing Slinger to his limits. I imagine people said the same thing about Nurse a very long time ago, until people learned she was the one and only OP.
How do you do those super cool bar quote dealy-doos, I wanna do 'em ;-;
step 1
step 2
A big part of his unpredictability is going for pinhole shots, and shooting over obstacles that don't look like they can be shot over. It's unlikely that a survivor knows every pinhole to avoid, unless they are also a Deathslinger main.
I am not deathslinger main. I haven't played him in over 7 months or more. I think I played him about 20~ games after the week after he got changed just to confirm where he is at. I would say that you don't need to be deathslinger main to know where pinholes and his ADS time is so slow to the point that you'll likely pass over the pinhole before he is able to shoot in most cases. It is highly predictable as deathslinger's player-movement will not look natural in most cases when they're going for fancy gameplay.
You can also pre-aim when walking around a corner and the survivor is no longer able to react your shot, guaranteeing a hit.
First of all, It is not guaranteed hit. The deathslinger produces this really strange ringing noise when aiming down sight. Furthermore, the survivor can anticipate the shot if he/she believes that he can fire. I tend to run loops extremely tightly such that most of the time, I end up making the corner before he is able to shoot. In the rare cases where its not the case, I am not concerned. I do not think outplaying his gun is particularly difficult.
Aiming and not shooting to trick survivors into juking is also good strat. If a survivor makes a read on you that you're not shooting after doing spam ADS a few times, you can suddenly """quickscope""" and land a hit. Now that survivor pretty much has no idea what to expect from you the next time you chase them and you start ADS'ing randomly.
This sounds like very new-player suggestion. There is no sudden quickscope. Quickscoping does not exist in current iteration of slinger. inexperienced survivors will sometimes begin wiggling in predictable patterns before the wind-up completed. Its just the typical bad-survivor gameplay. Given that deathslinger is pretty crap killer in my opinion and MMR exists, I don't really imagine anyone having particularly high MMR with him and I imagine your more likely to face bad survivors with him if you main him from being lower MMR.
"I'd be be playing Nurse or something. I just find the "better" killers to be boring because they are too easy or require too little skill.
Really? Low skill? You should try her out. I assure you. she is not easy. If you want some extra challenge, Burn a Racoon city police station offering. The ego might be a bit too high on this comment.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2981177#Comment_2981177
I play Slinger pretty much every day, and he's still extremely strong. If you really insist that he's bad, then having a niche as a killer that is only good in the hands of one-tricks isn't too bad in my humble opinion. He pretty much only loses to loading into one of the oversized maps and having survivors split on gens (but every killer loses to this). To be fair though, he's extremely dependent on STBFL to stay viable.
His unique gimmick is that he can hit you pretty much anytime and at any loop, ADS is still very quick relative to what you get out of it, and he's got much better zoning than Trickster and Huntress. Huntress has a massive wind-up and throws a whale at the survivor, but Slinger can ADS very fast and shoot through a pinhole to get a guaranteed health state. Trickster can do the same, but you can't always get that much value out of it.
Reverting the nerf would catapult him into S tier, which we don't really need when we already have The Big Three (yes, I think Slinger is that good). Charged exposed shots or having stronger chain would be way too much and swing him into being unloopable. Longer range and a higher projectile speed are both good buffs, however. Giving him a small TR radius again gives him a niche as the only pseudo stealth ranged killer when using M&A, which gives people a reason to play him again.
As for community suggestions, I have suggested many. Even one earlier today. Just no one in the DbD community cares at all if you have a well-thought out opinion or suggestion, they just want to say "just uhhhhhh make it overpowered or delete it from the game ig lol." People aren't looking for actual solutions to DbD's problems, they just want to take the easy way out and say whatever requires the least thought.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2981167#Comment_2981167
I'd say you need to play more Slinger. If a survivor is doing the correct counterplay at a loop, you can counter their counter with mindgames, good predictions, and being unpredictable. I throw games to commit to difficult chases just to push the limits of what Slinger can do in chase. Then every time I play against someone doing X counterplay at X loop, I know how to counter it. e.g. if a survivor is crouching to dodge your harpoon, you can tap ADS to trick them into crouching and losing distance.
Yes, it's an enormous time investment just to get good at one killer, but people do the same thing with Huntress and other killers.
I'd say you need to play more Slinger. If a survivor is doing the correct counterplay at a loop, you can counter their counter with mindgames, good predictions, and being unpredictable.
I do not agree. I don't think there is anything unpredictable about current deathslinger. I think survivor has counter-play to to every action he takes and he has no control over the chase whatsoever.
I throw games to commit to difficult chases just to push the limits of what Slinger can do in chase.
I think this sentence is clear indicative problem. Your literally throwing games in attempts to improve at the killer at an illusion that you'll improve at the killer in the future.
One of my recent games vs deathslinger was playing Gideon's meat packing plant and I was at that loop where there is a hole with a pallet that often links into an extended T-L wall at the bottom of the hole. The deathslinger player spend like 1-2 minutes trying to shoot shots at this loop in order to hit me. I'm not even sure what he was trying to do? Was he trying to shoot me and make me fall in the hole? No clue.
Either way, this is good summary of what playing survivor feels like against Deathslinger. It is like practically waste of time because the killer-player is literally throwing games in attempts to do some fancy play that is not going anywhere. The killer to no one surprise loses and in my head its like "Can we just move on the next game? what a dull boring match."
This is the case for a lot killers though. There is just lack of fulfillment in escaping a killer that has no chance at winning.
Yes, it's an enormous time investment just to get good at one killer
Players do that with other killers because getting better at other killers has payoff/reward. He lacks payoff and he is less fun to play now which is why he is played less. I still see some monthly posts every so often that encapsulate some sembalance of add-on reworks/reverts for deathslinger.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2981141#Comment_2981141
idk, getting a hit at pretty much every loop in the game is pretty monka, and you can even get hits at most loops if the pallet is dropped. Very few killers have the same level of strength. I've personally been on a quest to see which loops you can get downs with Slinger even after the pallet is dropped.
But yeah, it wasn't for 0 reason. Quickscoping and tap ADS were pretty much impossible to deal with as survivor, but the Terror Radius nerf was uncalled for.
i'd say that survivor can outplay every loop that deathslinger can get hits at in just about every situation. just about everyone is just waiting for deathslinger to get his revert more or less. Hopefully it happens sooner than later. Quickscope in particular needs reverts.
Terror radius is whatever, it was nice to get initial hits for his shot to be lethal when survivor wasn't paying attention though it will be fine if it just becomes lullaby or whatever if bothered the survivor that much.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2978599#Comment_2978599
Honestly another endgame hex perk would be cool too see since most of the ones we've got recently (While not terrible by any means) were more focused around either totem defence or were unique spins on the totem mechanic itself like rekindling or plaything
main issue is that killer could bodyblock the totem similar to afk pig, so maybe it would need to work more like those green/purple glyph in archives where you need find glyph to escape. at the same time, i can't help thinking of it just being noed 2.0.
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@Brokenbones said:
I don't think this should be a basekit thing but
It's a neat idea for a new endgame totem like NOED though. Like imagine if there was a hex that lit up when all gens got done and it had some kind of effect on the exit gates/exit gate area.
Or, here's a random idea
'Survivors who are dead on hook cannot leave the trial while the hex is up'
Would b cool
hex:blood warden is something I've always wondered for how effective it would be for blood warden to be hex totem.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2977341#Comment_2977341
So 4 dead hards every game and just Nurse and Blights every game is fine according to you? You just have to mindlessly disagree with everything i say lol, even if it is about something as bad as mmr.
Facing nurse and blight every game is just balance problem with killers. if most killers were effective and able to play the game with their own skill, than you'd face more variety of killers as survivor. You still face variety of killers as survivor, Its just that whenever its not one of those two killers, the game is tends to not very close for the killer. survivor tends to dominate for most of the match, than killers camp near end and sometimes get kills from over altruism on unhooks or everyone escapes.
Facing 4 dead hard shouldn't bother you as killer. Dead hard has been same perk for over 5 years and it has never changed in functionality since the beginning. BT/DS are the other two meta perks that have received some changes but for the most part, they've stayed close to their functionality. Killers have been facing these perks for years, so the fact that it bothers people suddenly is just way random.
Good players should face other good players. Its just that DBD trash-balance towards casual survivor gameplay interferes with killer gameplay balance massively which isn't problem for matchmaking, its problem of dbd balance. DBD matchmaking is good. DBD balance for killers is not good.
I'm not sure how much 40 changing perks is going to improve it, but I don't see it doing all that much since most of the survivor's strength comes in base-gameplay of looping, not perks and most of killer problems comes from their weak powers & corresponding add-ons to said powers. so really they should be changing killer powers to accommodate higher-level play and loops. I guess we'll just have to see what changes after the 40 reworked perks.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2975649#Comment_2975649
Well I didn't necessarily mean 50% as the Comb applies. I also wouldn't even mind the removal of the token system they nerfed on her base kit a while back.
I'd say the token system was made so that nurses would not be able to slug as effectively with infectious fright and it gives survivors a bit of head-start in term of hold-w distance upon getting hit/missing a hit. it means you need to land medium to long distance blinks that have decent mindgame potential.
Of course there are survivor that do not utilize blink token cooldown system fully from poor movement, though dbd shouldn't balance around bad survivors even though it does(with like twin's example).
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@Blueberry said:
That would kinda hurt her perk flexibility though.
Honestly I would rather her post-blink lunge just be a tad shorter. I feel like it's extremely forgiving. Like covering an entire DH distance worth of forgiveness. It currently feels like it compensates too much for blinks that were aimed incorrectly.
That all said, Nurse in generally is fine on most players, it's only the very rare god tier Nurses where it feels like you can't do much and as stated, those are very rare. It feels a bit weird to give a nerf to a killer that is only too oppressive in rare cases. This is kind of similar to the "absolute monster that is Twins at high mmr". We shouldn't have nerfed Twins for the same reason I'm hesitant to nerf Nurse, the problem cases are just statistically irrelevant on the grand scale of things.
white nit comb is like worst add-on in the entire game. putting this as base-kit would be terrible. perfect for survivor bully simulator vs nurse.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's a reason we throw an entire loadout of slowdown nowadays
not for long, wait for 40 perk rework patch where every generator slowdown get nerfed to oblivion. yeah survivor lose dead hard/bt/ds but that won't change fast generators as dev will soon see.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974385#Comment_2974385
Distance untill you reach an area where you can lose vision quickly. A lot of maps are open, being able to dodge 1 additional barrage of blinks by making distance is often the difference between a Nurse being able to consistently use Pain Resonance and not.
And yeah, I agree, in the EGC, BT and DS shouldnt trigger. I am firmly believing that current DS and BT could be made basekit as long as the exitgates are not powered. Meaning you wouldnt have to be scared of DS once the final gen is done and tunnel a survivor out quickly to get maximum value for other potential endgame perks.
As for DH, again, right now, the only reason why I think it should be is hugtech/alchemist ring blight and recharge addon Nurse. Because Alchemist Blight+Recharge Nurse can down you before you even reach anything you can use, even if the game just started. And Hugtech Blight removes a lot of intended counterplay. That's only 4 reasons why DH still has a reason to be in the game. As for changing DH, I am of the opinion that DH just triggers when the killer tries to down you. Remove the control from survivors and give it to killers. That does mean you are forced to hit a survivor twice, but it would remove reasons to tunnel even more. As for the benefits of that: You can swing towards a pallet, and if it were registered as a hit on the survivor end, they would DH. Since you already lunged towards the pallet, you can now block them from using the pallet. If survivors are running to a window, wait untill they are close and then swing, so they are forced to glide off the wall instead and, once again, block the window.
As for the I-frames being removed, that's a huge no. Because that would basically return DH in a worse state as being exhausted on the floor. SB gains distance faster than DH does. Hence the i-frames being necessary. For DH to remove the i-frames, means to increase the distance covered with DH. Which makes Dead Harding to windows and pallets even easier than it already is.
So I prefer the automatic dodge. It would be no different from Overcome, but instead you're injured. You cant negate Trapper traps anymore, as Trapper doesnt down survivors with his traps. It does give additional counterplay to Hag, but not much. It would be a bit annoying, but it wouldnt be hard to counterplay. Hitting the survivor ASAP in the open would always be beneficial. Hitting an injured survivor who tries to bodyblock and bait a hit would be very likely to accidentally trigger DH. An injured survivor running for an unhook cannot DH to bypass you, but instead you can trigger DH early to make them zoom past the hook and then block their angle.
I find it funny that you came up with that idea because ever since they announced the 40 or so perk rework changes, I've been sleeping on what could they do to make dead hard to be more of a killer-sided perk.
I think they might change it where you press dead hard and during like small window like 1 sec, you auto-dead hard which removes dead hard for distance for the survivor and only allows it to be used for iframes if the killer swings, otherwise the perk goes on 40 second exhaustion and does nothing.
I'd say dead hard for iframes has counter-play if your in lunge distance. This is because survivor cannot vault windows as they cannot dead hard during vaults and they cannot drop pallets because you can swing into the pallet and during pallet drop, you can hit the survivor resulting in a wasted pallet drop and relatively easy survivor down. I could talk about how to counter 360-dead hard's and FOV tech dead hards. they have counter-play that we will skip the details.
Dead hard for Iframes lack counter-play for abilities that are telegraphed because the survivor can react to the ability by pressing it at the correct time. so this is like every projectile in the game because all projectiles have travel distance, so huntress hatchets, doctor shock, pyramid head's POD, Artist ranged crows, etc. For Nurse and Blight, you can somewhat react to nurse's blink and blight's lethal rush with dead hard, but they can bait your dead hard usage if nurse blinks right on top of you or in blight case, bounce right next to you. I'd almost argue that dead hard affects blight and nurse a lot less than it does with other killers because they get many more chances hit the survivor so there is more opportunity for them to waste dead hard compare to other killers.
I would say dead hard for distance is probably the more broken part of dead hard because it is like having sprint burst on 99% on every single chase against the 110%/115% m/s killers. A lot of the loops in the game rely on the killer double backing or walking forward(the survivor hesitating to vault) and if you make good read as killer, you are suppose to gain distance on the survivor such that the survivor in next 3-5 second is suppose to take a hit. Experienced killers know when they're going get a hit well in advance as they know how long it takes for them to catch up the survivor visually speaking and swing to get the hit. This is little bit like predicting the future before the result happens. The problem is that experienced survivors also know this, so extra distance that dead hard provides in short bursts is difference between the killer getting into lunge distance and not being in distance at all to acquire a hit.
in short, Dead hard removes the risk of making mistakes at tiles by readjusting the distance lost on bad vault/overextended pallets. While that doesn't seem like a big deal in grand scheme of things, survivor want to take risks at window vaults and pallet loops in order to prologue the chase and conserve resources on the map allowing them to loop longer. Since the survivor decides when they get extra distance, the killer lacks any control in changing outcome in the loop. They're essentially forced to waste the perk in order to counter-play it thereby providing 3rd health state in places where they would got a hit.
I would say having auto-dead hard would be even more powerful than current version of dead hard because you could force dead-hard for distance with no skill/timing involved. Dead hard is not powerful perk at lower mmr's, as seen by pick-rates. survivors below 1500 MMR do not know how to utilize to full potential dead hard. They lack the game knowledge to do so. It is only powerful after 1600+ MMR where it reaches 60-75%+ pick-rate for when survivor know how to utilize its distance gain benefits properly. With auto-dead hard, you'd also force every killer to suffer a miss attack cooldown and I guaranteed that no killer would run the 30% unrelenting perk. This is also why in part the dev did not really notice dead hard dominance as a perk because the dev collect feedback from lower-level players where a perk like sprint burst or Lithe is considered -better- for being easier to use.
The strong survivor players have been using dead hard for nearly 5 years and that perk has never left my survivor load-out since its introduction. so out of all the perks that they're changing, dead hard is most fascinating perk of them all.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970230#Comment_2970230
"suppose a killer get 8 hooks but kills nobody every single game. are you saying that killer is winning every match despite fact that 4 survivor are escaping every single match?"
Absolutely. Hooks are way more reflective of how well the killer played than kills.
"At what point does the survivor lose by hooks? It would be entirely subjective for how many hooks the killer needs to win."
The game doesn't say "you won" or "you lost". That's entirely player interpretation. What the game does do is tell you how well you played through pips and category scoring. So "at what point does the survivor lose by hooks?" is actually an irrelevant question, it's how well they played.
"I'm pretty sure that most players would agree that a killer player that gets 2 kills on average is better than a killer player that gets 0-1 kill on average. "
Actually I'm pretty sure the average player would agree that the person who gets 8 hooks is better than the person that got 2 kills.
"NOED and hook bombing is a reflection of game balance."
They don't. They get you kills, but they are not a reflection of skill or how well the game is balanced. Kills is not equal to skill or game balance. Yes, that's what the devs "think", but that's not actually accurate and why their game currently has so many balance problems in the first place.
"the other two win conditions(slugging and camping) were put on the side."
Those can exist in the game. The whole reason we're disagreeing is because you're going by the devs win condition which to me is flawed and incorrect in principle.
"I'm sure perk does increase kill-rate when it is used but it is probably not as high as you would imagine in regards to overall kill-rate for killers."
Most the high end community players I know would disagree with you. The devs also tend to lump all kill rates together and don't regularly separate high from low brackets. Most the data we do have is also data that's non mmr era data which is relevant.
Hooks are way more reflective of how well the killer played than kills.
I do not agree. I would say that hooks are gateway to kills which reflect the outcome of the game. One of the win conditions is getting 3 hooks on an individual survivor so hooks definitely play a part in how good the killer plays. They're not only factor though.
The game doesn't say "you won" or "you lost". That's entirely player interpretation. What the game does do is tell you how well you played through pips and category scoring. So "at what point does the survivor lose by hooks?" is actually an irrelevant question, it's how well they played.
This answer dodges the question entirely. how well you played is reflective for whether you lost or won according to the game win-condition which is kills.
They don't. They get you kills, but they are not a reflection of skill or how well the game is balanced.
they influence the end result. you might disagree with how certain killers are getting such results, but killers are not breaking rules or anything.
Yes, that's what the devs "think", but that's not actually accurate and why their game currently has so many balance problems in the first place.
I'd say the game has balance problems because the dev favor the survivor's opinion over the killers leading to some very survivor-sided gameplay in terms of fun. The killers unfortunately just have to go with the flow. If you don't like it, just take mathieu advice with Civilization.
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@Blueberry said:
Measuring balance around kill rates is a flawed metric to begin with, it should be around hooks and hooks after 5 gens are done, not when the game has ended. Hook bombing and noed kills at the end don’t reflect game balance.
suppose a killer get 8 hooks but kills nobody every single game. are you saying that killer is winning every match despite fact that 4 survivor are escaping every single match? At what point does the survivor lose by hooks? It would be entirely subjective for how many hooks the killer needs to win. I'm pretty sure that most players would agree that a killer player that gets 2 kills on average is better than a killer player that gets 0-1 kill on average.
Unlike survivors that have a single win condition, the killers have a single win condition that can be fulfilled in 3 ways:
1) Waiting for a survivor to bleed for 4 minutes on the ground
2) Waiting 60 seconds for each individual hook state to pass for total of 120 seconds.
3) Hook a single individual survivor a total of 3 times.
NOED and hook bombing is a reflection of game balance. I'm just guessing that you disagree that camping hooks(win condition #2) as viable strategy. I think player like you that talk about this would just prefer if the game was more balanced around win condition #3 and the other two win conditions(slugging and camping) were put on the side. As seen by the statistics regarding perk usage, NOED does not have very high MMR pick-rate for killers, I'm sure perk does increase kill-rate when it is used but it is probably not as high as you would imagine in regards to overall kill-rate for killers.
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In regards to OP post, When I first started playing survivor, the reason why I wanted to play survivor was because I thought survivor was the harder role to win with. I think survivor is harder role to play when your new at the game but it quickly becomes the much easier role to play the more experience you have with survivor and the stronger your teammates are at survivor.
The expectation you would get from playing survivor is that your suppose to face challenging and difficult killers to escape from. Similar to @drsoontm post, Escaping on survivor is more fulfilling when your opponent is stronger, otherwise I would agree with his post that escaping with survivor is pretty bland experience.
Unfortunately, the survivor player-base does not seem to like challenging killers to play against, so most of the killer are not very challenging to play against. As a result, the harder role to play in this game end up being the killer. It does not seem like the game will ever be killer-sided so a kill-rate of 75% is unlikely to occur.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2969258#Comment_2969258
The building is surrounded by a deadzone on all sides and the two pallets up top are super unsafe. It's also easy to catch a survivor who leaves the structure unless they have Balanced Landing because either they drop and you catch up, or they take a ramp and you can drop to shortcut them. I have no beef with Grim Pantry's upper floor except when you get a window that faces forward instead of the pantry's sides - that's broken AF and requires bloodlust if the survivor's competent.
there is no rng on the loop. the loop is identical in strength regardless for how the windows spawn. If the killer is m1, you are required to entity block the single window and obtain a high-level of bloodlust(2-3) to get the hit. I avoid that loop as killer. its not worth running if the survivor knows the proper routing. It is big time-waste loop for killer with no reward.
@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2969312#Comment_2969312
It’s like the only good thing on the map. Most the other gens are out in the open, dead zones everywhere on that map. You’re practically gen locked no matter what gens get done first. Hate Grim Pantry.
this map is typically played by rushing middle generators. if the killer tries defend middle generator, you run to this building, loop it until the killer hits you and than you use sprint burst to go shack which usually spawns 2 safe pallets and shack pallet itself. If a killer fully commits to the chase, they typically lose 2-3 generators if they fully commit to the chase. The last two generators are generally easy to complete if middle generator are completed because they're very far apart. Some of them spawn on the edge of the map or spawn on platforms which gives survivor large advantage as the survivor are able to see the killer approaching the generator a mile away.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2968588#Comment_2968588
I don’t have an official confirmation. It is my assumption that it does based on playing as and against him a considerable amount.
The lunge feels different with the addons.
movement speed affects lunges. When Blight was on PTB, he had standard lunge in lethal rush.
After his PTB, one of his buffs was that Mc lean(I think) increased his lunge movement speed. I think the number i remember reading was that his lunge is moves at 7.2 m/s. The movement speed add-ons increase his lunge movement speed further and they are critical parts of blight's anti-loop toolkit with hug tech(gliding along walls).
weaken speed add-ons and removing hug tech(like Mandy comment) would be massive negative changes to blight. Look like survivor again getting their way into weakening another killer after his outstanding good PTB changes.
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those windows created very powerful god loop for against most killers. Looks like they're finally balancing that map. one less infinity/god loop window in the game.
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they won't add that. they'll icons, maybe add ping markers which do the same thing. still think easiest way is to just give everyone global bond or kindred for teammates aura only.
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Coup the grace for killer. too little tokens.
Second wind for survivor. I think second-wind could be good perk for survivor if it didn't require survivor to heal another survivor.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2961470#Comment_2961470
I think it was about 40 projectiles, but even without addons, survivors are running in chase, which increases infection(walking and crouching does not). Being infected would also infect every interactive thing the survivors interact with, except for hooks(for some reason).
And no, dead hard wasnt fixed favoring the survivor. You can still use Dead Hard and be downed, you simply wouldnt be exhausted on the floor.
As for "favoring the shooter" that's called hitscan, DBD doesnt have hitscan. As for favoring the shooter in DBD, that used to be the case. Where if it looked like a hit on the killers screen, even if ALL other players saw a distance of 10 meters, you'd injure the survivor. This is not really "favoring the shooter", this is simply "unplayable" as nothing you do matters. Dead Hard doesnt count as a dodge once you pressed it. Dead Hard counts as a dodge if your input reaches the server before the killer's hit registratrion arrives. It's not hit validation pulling your swing back and teleporting the survivor forward. Thats called synching your POV with the server POV as your POV is desynced. Desynced hits destroys any counterplay.
And again, no. If the survivor doesnt get hit on their end, and the killer does hit the survivor from their end, but the survivor's input reaches the server before the killer's input, then the hit misses. The same logic goes the other way. If the survivor does not get hit on their end, but does get hit on the killers' end, and the killers input reaches the server before the survivor's input, it registers as a hit.
The server validation doesnt favor any side, it favors the data that enters the server first.
I am willing to bet that if you play survivor and jump through a window while the killer swings, you'd also be injured when from your POV you shouldnt be, same logic there. The servers are first come, first serve, no favoring any side.
For the longest side, servers were favoring killers, meaning you could drop a pallet as a survivor, stun the killer as a survivor, run 5 meters away and still be downed because the killer was lagging. Realistically, that killer should have been stunned and the hit should have been rolled back. Sure, this mainly favors survivors, but realistically, its simply fixing something that was not meant to be anyway. Again, if you are able to play 10 seconds and then recieve a hit, what can you possibly do as a survivor? Nothing.
There are cases where it favors the killer though: grabs, hook animations and still injuring survivors who used DDoS to basically lose connection for 30 seconds to avoid damage.
I'm fairely certain that is not how it works. when two players connect to a server. you send information packets to the server. Depending how close you are to server and how fast your internet is decides how quickly this is. we call it ping.
The jist is that the survivor will see the game slightly ahead on their screen and killer will see the game slightly ahead on their screen. It is very small difference but it is there. It is called desync. certain gameplay mechanics are very precise in timing like dead hard. The server has to choose to favor one side in certain instances.
The reason why dead hard was bugged, well not really bugged but not working as intended from survivor point of view was that if the killer hit the survivor on their screen, it did not matter what survivor saw on their screen. The server would favor the killer unconditionally no matter what. This leads to survivors being exhausted on floor because they would press E button in time, but because of desync, the server would always favor killer hit on their screen. As a result of this interaction, it was changed to favor survivor unconditionally. In other words, as long you press E on your screen, the killer does not get hit. It is simple as that.
Since plague puke fires a lot of projectiles consecutively, the way it seems to work from my perception is that if survivor dodges puke on their screen, plague doesn't get the hit. this is why sometimes survivor screams but does not get infected. It does not feel good for the killer. It should work other way. the killer getting the hit should be prioritized otherwise ability becomes too unpredictable for the killer to use properly.
I wouldn't say her ability is luck based or anything, but server does rob you from hits every now and again.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2961069#Comment_2961069
"survivor often scream but do not get infected" You mean injured? And yeah, if you move your mouse too fast from left to right, there might be a visual blob hitting the survivor, but the projectiles all missing. Or do you mean the grunt at the start, because the grunt at the start of an infection is based on predictive math, not on actually hitting(although, most times, you should be hitting them). This is the same math that made survivors on your end scream while dead harding.
The visual blob connects between projectiles that are X distance away, or other blobs that are within Y distance. But the blob is not the projectile. The projectiles are invisible. For a fully charged vomit, there are about 63 projectiles. Sounds like a lot, but more often than not you're going for a smaller charge. Trickster's projectiles are larger than Plague's, and look how many knives you miss during main event, which often is thrown in the general location the survivor is running to. Plague's left-to-right movement spreads out the projectiles more, and now those projectiles are moving at an angle, so the inverse square law applies. The inverse square law in combination with the visuals not being a perfect representation of the projectiles make it very easy to have moments where it looks like you should have hit, but you really didnt.
As for being lucky with not having such problems, well, it could also be since I have about 10 hours in Plague total, which is still about 60-ish games, but thats too small of a sample size. Sheer statistical inevitability could have prevented it from occuring in those matches.
I understand that. Its just that you need hit like 60/63 projectiles to fully infect a survivor from 100 to 0 without add-ons and the fact that survivor can scream on some projectiles and not build infection meter can really mess with you as killer.
dead hard also had this problem where you'd press dead hard but be exhausted on floor but they fixed that by making it favor the survivor. The mechanic is called Favor the shooter. The idea is that if you see you hit the target on your screen, the server registers that you get the hit. In dead hard case, if you pressed E on your screen, it counts as dodge even if killer hit on their screen. You used to be able hear survivor get hit. Now you will notice your killer swing pulling back and survivor will like slightly teleport forward. that is the hit validation.
Plague's puke might as be called Favor the survivor. If survivor sees they dodged it on their screen, it registers on plague screen that they dodged, but the plague sees her screen as that they got hit. It makes incredibly challenging to use her ability properly because you can't tell where the survivor is standing on server screen. It just kinda feels like you get robbed off hits due to server validation favoring the dodger instead of the shooter.
I'm aware of trickster knifes, he is very aim intensive with his knives.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2961186#Comment_2961186
They don't have to limit frequency, they can just make it jarring to use which they already do.
By Jarring, I assume you mean weakened the killer's power potency. For example, you can make Nurse's blink have longer travel time by slowing her phase-time and longer charge time, so you "react" to her blinks. You can also put a blink indicator for survivor. such changes would destroy nurse completely. with other killers, they generally weaken their potency. Its just with nurse, they don't know how to weaken her potency/choose not to do that, instead they attack killer's time efficiency. Its little bit like Nemesis 3 health-state Vaccines.
I'd say with other killer, its both potency and time efficiency. that is why most of the other killers feel very weak, too many drawbacks.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/324500/i-cant-play-nurse-without-recharge-add-ons
Nurse without add-ons would truly be limited to people who put an obscene amount of time into her.
I play with the yellow recharge add-on no matter what. Months away from even considering taking it off.
limit power usage = limit skill-ceiling on her. I mean that is what they do with every other killer. can't have those killer's expressing their skills.