Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3064835#Comment_3064835
It used to be the opposite.
The lullaby was heard by awake Survivors, while the TR was heard by those who were asleep.
That way, you could make use of stealth perks and add-ons (Freddy had one) to make Dream World more deadly than it already was.
Ah, if BHVR just listened to me for a moment, we could still have that.
he also had 24 meter base-TR, he could reduce to 16 and red paint brush reduced his tr further by another 8. so he could have 8 meter TR although i believe red paint brush had drawback that reduced his movement from 4.6->4.4 (yes this killer apparently needed to be 110% m/s).
@PaintedDeath said:
So I was looking for information online and wasn't able to really find much. So I was hoping to get some information about Freddy's stealth mechanic. So from what I understand, while the survivors are awake, they cannot see him from a distance but can hear his terror radius, then once he comes within a certain radius he begins phasing in and out of sight. Thing is, is I remember seeing his stain at least when he's invisible. Is this correct, you see a disembodied stain floating around? Is there legitimately anyway a killer could make use of the invisibility and phasing while the survivors are awake, or is it as bad as it sounds?
you can use monitor&abuse and black pill bottle. you will have no tr for 24 meters and be completely invisible within 24 meters. this combination punishes the survivor for awaking up. the problem.... is that there isn't any point to currently wake up against freddy. so I just stay in dream world all game.
I'd say his black pill bottle is probably his best add-on now, despite it being really easy to counter.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3064266#Comment_3064266
When I play Blight, he doesn't turn into trash if I'm not using a very specific iri addon.
yeah and most of his add-on are kinda good. umbra salt+adrenaline vial, both speed add-ons, alchemist journal and summoning stone can be kinda funny. alchemist ring+iri tag with infectious fright is amazing, C21 is good for aura reading, so most of his add-on are usable and he has good base-kit(though in my opinion, i think that worse survivors will have hard time escaping blight).
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063992#Comment_3063992
Many spirit players think she's dependent on very specific addons, and good luck getting those after the prestige rework disaster that's being rolled out next patch.
i mean that's going to be a problem for all killers. Look on bright side, If you get to level 100 prestige, you can no longer prestige so you get to stay at level 50 bloodwebs. only takes 180 million BP to go 0-100 and like another 2 million BP for 20,000 BP tax. have fun doing that one without BBQ. So the reward for completing p100 is having old bloodwebs.
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zero. stealth is pretty much dead in next chapter. the only s-tier perks for stealth were spine chill and Iron will. both are weaker.
you can try replace spine chill with new dark sense, but new dark sense can only proc 5 times per game and Iron will will be replaced with off the record, but off the record is worse because it has 80 second timer unlike iron will which had an infinity timer.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063557#Comment_3063557
Well can I ask what is your definition of a crutch? And why don't killer addons fall into that category?
that's long explanation. Basically, I don't think killer's base-kit are balanced for high-level play. I'd say most killers base-kits are balanced around low to middle MMR in skill. some people used to joke that dev balance around rank 20 survivors, though i'd say its more around rank 10-5 if we using old ranks.
A crutch is something that an individual player relies on to win. most of add-ons that killer should be base-kit and even if certain powerful add-on were base-kit, the killer would still lose against strong teams because often the killer base-kit is so outrageously ineffective that even giving them a more powerful base-kit through base-kit add-ons would still make them defeatable.
well if these killer are defeatable with stronger base-kit through add-ons, than why aren't those add-on's base kit? Like Why isn't Pinky finger clown not base-kit? I mean I wouldn't mind playing against clown with it, but survivors that already struggle with clown would struggle even more against clown because they aren't good at survivor. Basically killers are not strong base-kit because they'd too difficult for weaker survivors to have fun against.
This is good Segway to talk about difference in perception between survivor using strong add-on's and Killer using strong add-ons. When survivor use strong add-ons, they're lowering difficult-level to escape as survivor. For example, when a survivor uses green med-kit with stypic agent+red needle, it gives them 3 health-states for first chase they enter as survivor. Can they win without having 3 health-states on first chase as survivor? Yeah, they can. Just get hit one less time. The same can be said for 4 survivors using Commodus toolbox+Wirespool+Brand new part. This increases generator speeds and makes it so that you have to loop less as survivor to win. You can win without the items by just looping the killer longer.
When killers use strong add-on, they're increasing difficult level for survivor to escape and often it increases their skill-ceiling(on their ability) because they can do a lot more with their ability and they get rewarded a lot more for using it effectively(Although some killer powers are not very complex/difficult to use).
I don't think either side is really using crutch add-ons. I'd say both sides are using strong items because it increases their fun-factor in the game. The only difference is that killers feel the need to use add-ons where as survivor uses items whenever they want to auto-win.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063500#Comment_3063500
I'm sorry but how is using strong addons not a crutch? Some addons can completely change a game and even take away some killers counters and I have even seen games in which the killer has one because of their addons.
I'm not saying they should be belittled for using addons since they are their to be used and survivors most definitely relay on crutch to but killers can most certainly do relay on addons as a crutch to win
explain why you think the killer using strong add-on is crutch for you?
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063460#Comment_3063460
She isn’t add on dependent in the slightest. This is what I’ve been trying to say, MDR+DCB might make it seem like she’s add on dependent when you start to rely on it. She’s just got a higher learning curve than before and one step to learning her is to not use those add ons.
oh god. this is like.... listening to survivor mains in end game chat. i think there is this large misconception for survivor player-base that using strong add-on's is somehow a crutch. its like when you win people with cheap gin+pinky finger clown and the survivor is completely salty and acts like you don't deserve the win. sorry this is just self-rant.
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nothing changed about her learning curve. Just her phase-walk efficiency(The effectiveness of phase-walk) became worse. survivors have more control over her ability. she's more add-on dependant against stronger players, while still smashes bad survivors as nothing changed for them.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063382#Comment_3063382
Because people are like that:
They nerfed her, nerfs are bad, she is garbage now. But she was still top tier killer all time.
her base-kit is bad due to directional audio change, but her mother daughter ring is S-tier add-on.
technically if you ran cherry blosom+mother daughter ring, She is same power-level as old spirit, but they nerfed BBQ, a perk that gives extra bloodpoints which allowed you spam iri add-ons every game with killer(after completing the atrocious perk grind)
New spirit is add-on dependant and since BBQ got nerfed, spirit is worse. well all killers are worse because eventually, your add-on supply as killer will run out after 3-4 months if you use expensive add-ons.
now killers might have to throw half of their games playing no add-on legion or something just so they can put bloodpoints into the killers they want to play with proper add-on build.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061503#Comment_3061503
Yeah, I’ve said the same thing, if they made his traps translucent it would be a nice buff for him.
i think it would be better if he could just throw his traps, kinda freddy's pools. he would have way more responsive power in the chase.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061857#Comment_3061857
Oh yeah. It’s strongest in the hands of good Survivors. Its a crutch for some of the best.
Wouldn’t be shocked if some super high MMR players quit the game over losing Dead Hard.
i really wish they buffed second-wind/renewal to not require the survivor to completely heal a full health-state.
its only way to use off the record->dead hard or dead hard->BT in the end game next patch. dead hard+off the record+bt(for end game)+renewal/second wind is going to be really awkward build to play.
maybe, playing against nurse 24/7 without meta build is uneventful.
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@Header said:
trickster has 44 knifes. it takes 6 knifes (13.6% of his total knifes) to injure someone. huntress needs 1 hatchet (20% of total hatchets) to injure someone. considering that hitting 6 knifes with trickster is way harder than 1 hatchet with huntress, i think its pretty balanced
someone that finally understands math properly.
huntress is also 5x more efficient at downing survivors compare trickster because trickster requires 12/44 knifes(27% of his total ammo count) in optimal time frame to down single survivor where as Huntress only requires single hatchet(M2->M1) combo to down a single individual survivor. This is all excluding both killer's ability to miss hatchets/knifes and just talking about their optimal play style in downing survivors.
weakening his ammo count would make him run out of knifes before being able down a single survivor.
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@Aneurysm said:
I don't know why everyone always says they want a 50% kill rate. The only percentage I've heard them use is 60%
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2DZ2UICUC4QZ/screenshot-20220714-125338-418.png
Source: https://squadstate.com/feature/dead-by-daylight-creative-director-talks-sbmm-moris-pinhead-the-grind-interview-with-dave-richard
there are multiple dev that work on the game and make different killers. each of them have targeted goal.
regardless if its 50% or 60%. They're not hitting their targeted goal.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060997#Comment_3060997
Just a clarification, does the killer have to be looking at you, or does it activate whenever you have a potential Line of Sight on the killer?
the killer has to be looking at you and there needs to not be a wall between you and the killer.
the perk was mainly used for its ability to pinpoint killer location. Like if your on top corner of the map and the perk lights up, the killer will be bottom-right of you, exactly 36 meters away from you between cone.
the ability worked when the killer was undetectable and gave information even before the killer terror radius could be heard.
they're weakened it but the perk might end up being useless now. I think they should kept vault speed to at least have some marginal use with lesser used resilience perk but whatever.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/334118/gen-speed-still-will-be-too-fast
The worst part is that people dont realize the strongest gen defense perks will be at least 50% weaker next patch. Gens are not going to take 50% longer so that means killers lose momentum.
Maps have too many pallets. Maps are too large. Most maps have loops that are way too safe. This last fact has to deal with the fact that most loops are "mini infinites" until you break the pallet. The problem there is that breaking the pallet removes Bloodlust. DBD might be a fair game to M1 killers if bloodlust were only removed by hitting a survivor (even kept active when a chase ended).
Every map needs to be no larger than 9000m². It's just silly how strong shift+w is on large maps. Small maps are fair to the killer because when someone tries to run around they will often run past another survivor during the chase. This does not happen on large maps.
Pallet density needs to be reworked so that there are already natural dead zones with no pallets. Some of the pallets should be pushed to the map edge so you have to run to a potential dead zone to use a pallet.
Meanwhile most of the generators need to be pushed in closer so that the killer can more readily walk to them
Or we can just leave all this alone and everyone will just play Nurse/Blight while ignoring all the other killers.
Maps have too many pallets. Maps are too large. Most maps have loops that are way too safe. This last fact has to deal with the fact that most loops are "mini infinites" until you break the pallet.
I wouldn't say there are too many pallets, I would say there are too many safe pallets. safe pallets create infinities loops and force the killer to break pallets. By breaking pallets, the survivor get more distance making shift+W extremely effective.
Basically, there is no punishment for using pallets. they're making 10% faster to break pallets making it 10% less effective... but issue is that 10% is simply not enough. you need 10x effectiveness. like 100% pallet break.
ideally though, the killer shouldn't really be breaking pallets. they should be outplaying the survivor at pallets.
Every map needs to be no larger than 9000m². It's just silly how strong shift+w is on large maps. Small maps are fair to the killer because when someone tries to run around they will often run past another survivor during the chase. This does not happen on large maps.
The other aspect that makes shift+W strong is health-states. they give a lot of free distance per chase and this makes big maps pretty strong because you shift-w with health states. basically big maps are strong not because of their size, but because how health-states and pallets work.
Survivor's run into other survivors during the chase because of soloQ disorganization. SoloQ doesn't have any information for where each other are. The perk that would help soloQ not run into each other especially on smaller maps is Bond, not many people run it because its -1 perk slots for soloQ on something that SWF gets by default. The other perks that do similar things are Kindred(When someone is on the hook) and Window of opportunity(This ones let's you see pallets get dropped by your teammates).
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@Rise432 said:
His only slowdown was jolt.... bruh
he's not talking about yamoka estate game. he's talking about mother dwelling game where he was camping the hook(around 12 meters) and he got 1 hook in 5 generators done. he had backpack killer build(backpack build is starstruck/agitation/iron grasp/mad grit).
Clown just isn't very good killer at the chase. He's just very weak killer.
the changes are intended to give killers more time chase to make genrushing less effective, but they're not going fix weak killers. clown just needs buffs to his chase(like making yellow tonic less useless....).
he still won the game with 3 man slug, but that's just your typical clown game. that's like 50% of my games as clown as well. get 1 hook in 5 gens, win in the end game... from survivors playing badly in end game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059691#Comment_3059691
Survivors can use unbreakable to pick themselves up to avoid penalty of being slugged when using decisive strike offensively.
That's not an issue though, since that expends another perk, which is single-use at that, plus it still wastes a lot of time for the survivor to be able to get themselves up.
the problem is that it doesn't work if the killer has clear line of sight on the survivor. Those bonus only help when the killer has lost sight of the survivor and the survivor is not in a chase.
It would work in a chase, and could work under many different circumstances. It would require the killer to lose line of sight, certainly, but that's why it could be considered a more high risk, high reward kind of anti-tunnel perk.
The solution would be to grant survivors intangible such that the killer can walk through the survivor similar to how certain killers powers such as Myer's stalking allow the survivor to walk through the killer.
At that point, I'd still rather go back to DS being the only anti-tunnel perk, since it won't risk interacting poorly with other endurance perks.
That's not an issue though, since that expends another perk, which is single-use at that, plus it still wastes a lot of time for the survivor to be able to get themselves up.
that isn't conversation. your saying that decisive strike cannot be used offensively. I am saying the perk can be used offensively if paired with unbreakable given that both perks present lose-lose situation to the killer. onto 2nd part of sentence. Both perks will waste the individual's time in bodyblocking. neither perks waste the team's time. Both perks are self-sufficient and accomplish goal in bodyblocking if used offensively.
It would work in a chase, and could work under many different circumstances. It would require the killer to lose line of sight, certainly, but that's why it could be considered a more high risk, high reward kind of anti-tunnel perk.
It will not be high risk, nor high reward. it simply does not work. Anti-tunnel perks need to add time sink for the killer so that the killer is disincentivized from going after the same survivor twice. The reason being is that killers will prioritize chasing survivors that are on 1st hook or 2nd hook(Death hook) over survivors with 0 hook states. While your version off the record provides many bonuses that make survivor more difficult to down, it does not add any additional time sink.
At that point, I'd still rather go back to DS being the only anti-tunnel perk, since it won't risk interacting poorly with other endurance perks.
As of latest update, Survivors that are affected deep wound will not be affected by endurance status effect so you do not need to worry about the risk of interacting with other endurance perks. They simply do not stack.
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@Firellius said:
To start off with, here's my projected problem for Off The Record:
With the excellent change to not allow endurance to stack up unconditionally, OTR is taking a hit to the part it played in that awful looking meta. That part is fine. However, this now makes OTR worse for both sides of the fence than its functional predecessor: Decisive Strike.
For the survivors, it is now possible for this perk to become disabled when the baseline BT effect kicks in. If you get hit within 5 seconds of getting unhooked, OTR now no longer functions. This means the anti-tunnel aspect stops functioning if the killer tunnels hard enough.
For the killers, and this is a bigger issue, OTR can be used offensively much more effectively and safely than DS. A survivor with DS can attempt to bodyblock the killer, but if they get smacked down but not picked up, they'll be left slugged out, wasting their own and their team's time. In this way, trying to use DS offensively, outside of its defensive purpose, punishes the user for its misuse.
OTR doesn't have this. If a survivor uses OTR to bodyblock the hit, they're still up and running, and can mend themselves or work on generators/totems. In this way, it reduces the punishment a survivor suffers for misusing the perk.
So what is my suggestion for OTR?
Simply kick it into overdrive. With the limitation of the conspicuous action being added, OTR gets its effectiveness greatly diminished.
But instead of endurance, it should simply make the survivor practically untraceable. In addition to the blocked aura reading and the silenced grunts of pain, OTR should remove scratch marks and bloodstains, and perhaps even remove footsteps. Make it really hard for the killer to track a survivor under the effect of OTR.
That way, OTR becomes an alternative to DS, but one that is more reliant on skill, and one that cannot be used offensively in any way, but if you can succeed in breaking the chase with the tools it provides, it can prove more powerful of a tunnelling deterrent than DS.
You could even let it stay active in end-game, as it's not a free escape ticket whatsoever.
A survivor with DS can attempt to bodyblock the killer, but if they get smacked down but not picked up, they'll be left slugged out.
Survivors can use unbreakable to pick themselves up to avoid penalty of being slugged when using decisive strike offensively.
That way, OTR becomes an alternative to DS, but one that is more reliant on skill, and one that cannot be used offensively in any way.
the problem is that it doesn't work if the killer has clear line of sight on the survivor. Those bonus only help when the killer has lost sight of the survivor and the survivor is not in a chase.
======================
If bodyblocking off the record becomes a problem, The solution would be to grant survivors intangible such that the killer can walk through the survivor similar to how certain killers powers such as Myer's stalking allow the survivor to walk through the killer. There is no evidence currently to suggest that this is a problem, as such there is no reason to fix it.
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@PBsamichShoe said:
He seems to be able to mark people in under 2 seconds without crouching. The only addons I've noticed in my matches against ghostfaces were the brown one that reduces mark time by 20% but it shouldn't be that fast while he's standing??
there is nowhere in add-on that says you need crouch or stand-up. marking takes 5 seconds when not leaning and 2.5 seconds while leaning by default. the add-on reduces it to 4 seconds and 2 seconds respectively. not a bug. it is that fast.
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@Vampwire said:
Solo que survivor will always be hell I feel. You make a good point about camping being indirectly buffed by gen times. It takes a total of 6 minutes to do all gens now, excluding all the other variables such as the distance traveled to reach one and locating one. It takes about 2 and a half minutes for survivors to fully sacrifice. So from a technical aspect you can get 2 kills and have 1 minute of gen time left. All of these numbers are taken at the absolute efficiency.
If we count the average chase time, around 30 seconds, you're still guaranteed two kills at least.
The only way to fix camping is to attack it directly. I think a great fix for it would be healthy survivors can't get grabbed when unhooking. It's still a trade but they can get the unhook at least. Or making the hook timer slow down when the killer is within 12 meters of the hooked survivor.
The only way to fix camping is to attack it directly. I think a great fix for it would be healthy survivors can't get grabbed when unhooking. It's still a trade but they can get the unhook at least. Or making the hook timer slow down when the killer is within 12 meters of the hooked survivor.
yeah whole facecamping aspect really does suck. maybe they could make a perk where you go intangible when unhooking similar to old dead hard. It would still be hook trade.
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prove thyself is new BBQ. now we'll get the posts that go along lines of: I only use this prove thyself for blood points. oh man
can those guys rework distressing to do something useful for killer?
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@[Deleted User] said:
Killers will still have some pretty gross slowdown stacks they can utilize. Ruin/Thana/Pentimento/Thrill on 90 second gens. Even nerfed Ruin will be gross with that setup. 4 cleanses survivors will have to do on top of Thana.
most of these perks are easy counter. 3 out of these perks totem perks and if these perk are cleansed, you'll have 1 perk. Thano can be countered by healing and in general, the game should not be focused on gen-rushing while injured. I don't recommend playing killer with 1 perk is my advice.
ruin+surveillance might get used, but ruin is hex, so once it goes, so does surveillance.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3057103#Comment_3057103
First of all, nobody is abusing anything when they run Iron Will on certain Survivors.
Second, they only nerfed Iron Will because it was Meta. Thats it. And it is dumb. But instead of reverting the change, they do changes to the Survivors, which will be pointless anyway, since Iron Will is just dead.
First of all, nobody is abusing anything when they run Iron Will on certain Survivors
yes they are. they're using a perk on specific character to intentionally increase the perk strength. I'm just explaining what the dev post is talking about in regards adjusting volumes in relation to Iron will change.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Disappointed that they did not revert the Iron Will-Change. It will still not really do anything at 75%. Adjusting the volumes of Survivors will not really help with that.
And in fact, they are adjusting the sounds because they want to brute force their Iron Will-Nerf just to "shake up the Meta". And personally, I think it makes a lot of sense that a giant guy like Jeff is more noisy than other Survivors.
But even if you make him less noisy, this does not change anything as long as Iron Will is only at 75%...
why would they be reverting the change, the perk has been meta since its conception. they're going nerfing certain survivors because of their build-in iron will. Mainly they will be nerfing Ace and Kate because these two survivors have build-in iron will for whatever reason.
They will also be buffing Jeff and Ash who for whatever reason have base-kit stridor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0aFo4lPARwOtz already has made a video about this 2 years ago.
A lot of survivor players will be abusing Iron will kate and Iron will Ace. At least they nerfed Spine chill+Iron will blendette build.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056779#Comment_3056779
You say that, but when you're injured you get the "Endurance" status effect which then goes away when you're next hit. Just because it doesn't put you into Deep Wounds doesn't matter, it's still Endurance.
I mean it doesn't say anywhere in description that you get endurance effect and it doesn't have drawbacks of endurance(deep wound).
I mean a lot of people were concerned about endurance stacking. so if it does affect MoM than hopefully changes address those concerns.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Well i am also curious about that. MoM does not need to be nerfed. @Peanits @MandyTalk can we get clear information about MoM please
mettle of man does not grant endurance like other endurance perks.
It just ignores the hit that would put you into dying state. it does not apply deep wound and it has no limit duration once the perk is active. its infinity duration ignore-hit type effect.
The only condition for using this perk is that you must take 3 protection hits to activate the perk and once the perk has been activated, the killer will see your aura if you heal while the perk is active. It always stacked with endurence perks, but not many player used it as it was large time sink to activate the perk.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056573#Comment_3056573
Yeah and it is still broken af. 80 seconds of endurance + the old effects of OTR is ridiculous. This will completely break the game and make the game unplayable for a few weeks until they fix it. This perk is BT (which was already one of the best perks in the game) on steroids and has no right to be in the game.
yes but they nerfed endurence stacking, you can no longer use dead hard with off the record. if you take a hit with off the record which applies deep wound, you can no longer use dead hard to tank a hit.
pretty big nerf considering new meta was going to be off the record+dead hard.
good changes considering they were making more powerful perks than originals in their supposed meta-change update. the update definitely made you question if they were eliminating meta perks or just creating stronger perks to replace original ones.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054659#Comment_3054659
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054662#Comment_3054662
I call recall a total of one person who thought Billy needed nerfed. The only complaint was insta saw Billy.
I remember the thread because it had such ionic name.
@Mushwin said:
C'mon, he goes from one side of the map to the other with no counter, the nurse has one, make him the speed as the huntress or something, he just has no counter against him....even with corners, people know how to play him, billy's wait for people to do a rescue and then down both people...
this is thread on "old billy" in year 2019. I think most complained about billy were about his facecamping capacity. same as leatherface in today's standards, but yeah some complained about his charge time add-ons, suggesting he should be 110% m/s(like huntress)..... looks at his tuning guide with 4.4 m/s drawback. i'd say the no drawback mobility is tied to his ability to rush hooks when a survivor gets unhooked, so I'd say overheat is trying to limit this gameplay.
I think that sums up to why billy is the way he is today. 4.4 tuning guide, long charge times to make unhooking easier, overheat to limit mobility usage.
I just don't think that balancing around a killer facecamping is good balancing. If anything, the survivors should have many perks to nerf crap out of that gameplay to the ground and killer should be empowered to get kills through winning chases and playing to acquire the classic 3 hook condition.
I'd say in billy case, for him to do that gameplay, they'd have to remove 4.4 drawback from his purple tuning guide add-on and I would also remove his -charge time drawback from his green engraving and yellow doom engraving as these add-on are designed for curving but just make his curving worse by increasing the charge time of his chainsaw. I understand that some billy use it with lopro chains, but I'm not joking that the best billy is the billy that just doesn't run any add-on at the moment.
In my opinion, overheat mechanic is just sort of a joke mechanic that doesn't do anything, I don't get why anyone really talks about it. I think only time where this mechanic does anything is if you run drift billy which just a meme/troll build that revolves around using double stearing add-ons and driving chainsaw randomly around the map to snipe people. a more effect drift billy is just playing Oni with demon dash but whatever.
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@Sadako_Best_Girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055863#Comment_3055863
Yeah but it's good for memes on indoor maps.
if your curious for what missed attack cooldown add-ons are for, they allow you to click reload faster if you miss. the add-on that increase movement speed while ADS got nerfed when deathslinger received his negative changes. Hellfire Iron got nerfed, it used give him 32 meter aura reading in his cone-looking direction if you use M&A for like 1 second, it got changed to pointless undetectable. The rest is history for him.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054885#Comment_3054885
Thank you, I tried. :)
good changes. I just wonder what is the purpose of increasing the time to insert tape in TV is if the survivor is exposed during full Condemn status? The survivor will go down in a single hit making the whole insert tape during attack recovery redundant.
The post seems to suggest that condemn status effect is not rewarding enough but the real problem behind condemn status effect is more that condemn status effect build-up too slowly such that it rarely comes into play in regular matches. The change from 4->3 also makes it easier to remove condemn status effect therefore making the event even less likely than what it is currently. Just my personal opinion, the reward for being able to mori a survivor that is in dying state is already powerful such that it does not need further increase in strength through expose.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055730#Comment_3055730
Much like the "buffs" to Clown and Trapper, they did a lot of extra nonsense and directly avoided doing the simple, obvious fix that would've made it feel and play better.
Nearly every other 'charge up' killer gets to spend their charge at their leisure. Oni, Myers, Ghostface, Hillbilly (though Overheat screws with him), Bubba, Freddy, Plague (though the survivors control when she actually gets access to it).
Only Pinhead and Drudge have the "no control over when it activates," but at least Pinhead can potentially activate his by finding the box (or downing a survivor who has it).
Not letting Trickster just USE his power when he wants, on top of all the other absurd limitations is just so dumb.
well technically you can 99% main event similar to Myer's ability. Its just that trickster is highly dependant on his throwing mode that he **must** use throw knifes at every possible instance of time to minimize the time he's 110 m/s.
While you can time main event, its simply not worth it because normal throwing mode is superior to main event. basically its not worth being 110% m1 with no ability just to 99% the main event. Its almost like the ability was designed for camping hooks over enhancing his regular chase capacity. that is just my guess for why its limited in capacity.
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@Adjatha said:
Main Event is the single worst designed 'power spike' element in the game. It's so badly constructed at every level (unreliable charge-up, charge starts to fade quickly, once it's fully charged you have a super limited window to use it in, actually using it has a gigantic start-up where you're not hitting anything, doesn't make throwing accuracy any better than the standard use, slows you way down while using it so survivors can take cover, and even turns off on stun!).
The fact that it didn't get changed when Trickster got buffed makes me wonder why they bothered to keep it at all. They should just remove it completely and (slightly) buff Trickster to compensate for its loss.
they did buff it. the wind-up used to be around 2x longer. The main event window was 1/3(I think it was 10 seconds) and throwing mode movement speed reduction was slower(92% instead of 96%). oh yeah the stun was longer and you couldn't throw knifes for like double the time.
still not very good, but it is progress I guess.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055440#Comment_3055440
Yeah I'm aware of the differences between the two
The point is Huntress has a skill ceiling which makes her a threat at most ranges
Trickster just don't have that, he is only good at close range. You can land ranged knives to finish off a survivor's laceration sometimes but there's no way in hell you can fully down someone with knives from that far.
I'm not sure about Slinger, sometimes even if you land a max range shot you can't down the person due to the chain breaking
depends distances. I think a lot of the time, huntress hit people from 20-30 meters because survivors do not really pay attention, like if you use aura reading perk, let's say nurse calling and you see someone healing 24 meters. you often get the hit 25 meters away with hatchet because survivor doesn't expect the hatchet.
a survivor that is alert and confident in their dodging skills is very unlikely to hit by long distance shots.
With trickster, because he has to hit 6 times to injure someone, your always alert as soon as he hits you once and in practice, volleying a dozen knifes from super far away just slows you down, like 25 meters become like 30 meters and from such long distances, its way too easy to use walls and line of sight blockers to lose laceration stacks.
I'd say effective range of ranged killers is around 8-15 meters for all of them. they're all effective at close-middle range.
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@Brokenbones said:
I've said this before but it's worth repeating imo
He's a feast or famine killer
His power destroys you in the open or at short loops but is practically useless at the stronger tiles (Which if you ask me is where you need your power the most). A rework to his power would have to address this issue before changing the other aspects imo.
Funnily enough nothing encompasses the problems with his power more than Main Event
Main event when it works is extremely oppressive with the only counterplay being lockers but when it doesn't work (Which is most of the time), you wish you hadn't used it to begin with.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055420#Comment_3055420
Yeah for a 'ranged killer' , his power is weaker the further away he is, unlike someone like Huntress who's ability is the same strength regardless of range.
Yeah for a 'ranged killer' , his power is weaker the further away he is, unlike someone like Huntress who's ability is the same strength regardless of range.
All ranged killer are stronger the closer they are to the survivor. its easier to land pointblank hatchets because they become hit scan and require no leading at all. The further the projectile is, the more reaction time the survivor has to juke the hatchet or harpoon spear from slinger.
The only difference between trickster and the other ranged killers is that he requires more consecutive hits to get the injure thus spends more time in throwing mode compare to other ranged killers.
since it takes more time to inflict full health state of damage, your more likely to get LOS broken at longer ranges for longer periods of time with more chances for laceration regression mechanic to hurt you.
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@LeeONE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055040#Comment_3055040
The point of this thread to show all nurse defenders that says she is hardest killer in game and should be strong, that billy is harder
he never explains what about billy is harder than nurse? he is saying that on basic-level, billy is harder than nurse. On basic-level, billy moves at 115% and against most of the player-base, he doesn't need a power because most of casual player-base are bad at looping 115% m/s killers. the basic level of his ability is going from point A to point B and backrev chainsaws in dead zones. so in term of doing well as billy, the skill-floor is not very high. this is like 85% of billy's gameplay
Nurse's moves at 96% and is required to use her ability in a chase. her basic-level is just landing blinks in open field. this skill alone is harder than any other killer in the game. we'll just say this is base-level for nurse and you could say this is like 85% of nurse gameplay. its pretty obvious for what is harder.
what about last 15% for both killers, what is there supposed skill-ceiling? In order to make Nurse's blink harder for the killer, survivors utilize various techniques in order to make nurse's blinks harder. @brokensoul names few of them, double backing, using breaking Los, using levitation which prevent nurse from stopping her blink if she over-blinks and so on.
For billy, the highest skill-ceiling for him is curving. the simple explanation to curving is doing a 90 degree turn on first 1 second of start of his chainsaw sprint. this is all that curving is, nothing more, nothing less.
the reason why billy's skill-ceiling is not impressive is because if the survivor run/hug loops well enough, they can prevent curving and largely make it ineffective by turning corners before billy can finish charging his chainsaw sprint. The chainsaw slows his movement speed during rev and it has 2.5 second charge, which is very slow and predictable. Also curving tends to only work on loops that are straight and many loops in DBD are jagged with same safe pallet design that most m1 killers experience. you can turn billy into an m1 killer if your good enough as survivor.
Nurse on other hand can counter-play/outplay the survivors tricks by anticipating the survivor's movement. survivor's window looping skills and pallet looping skills do not affect nurse's ability to blink. By suppressing the survivor's looping skill and replacing it with nurse's blink skills, nurse's skill expression trumps the survivor's skill expression.
DBD unlike other games, DBD is not symmetrical game. in other games, like FPS games, both players can use same Assault rifle and the one that has better aim usually comes out on top. in DBD, killer have killer powers and survivors have pallets & windows. generally speaking, the pallets and windows are generally stronger than killer powers(e.g billy) and the survivor looping skill trumps the killer ability. so skill-ceiling in DBD is not just how mechanically complex the killer is, it is also how much control the killer has over the survivor gameplay and this unique to DBD.
This is also why many players consider blight to have 2nd highest skill-ceiling because he can utilize hug tech on tilesets and his blighted corruption can be used to dominate the survivor's gameplay loop when looking at his skill-ceiling.
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@SuzuKR said:
People act like they’re facing god survivors/god Nurses every time they face survivors/Nurse which is stupid and blatantly wrong. Most players, regardless of side, are not that good. The percentage of the playerbase that is extremely good is… extremely small. And the chance they’re on in the same region as you at the same time you’re queued for the opposite side but that there’s not enough high skill players on so they get matched with a worse player like you is… also small.
When you put an extremely hyper-good player(s) against people that are nowhere near that level, the match will be a stomp. It does not matter what build the survivor runs, or what build/killer the killer runs. They are just outright too far ahead of the other side. This is why extremely good survivor players escape almost every single game, and this is why extremely good killer players slaughter almost every single game.
When you put players of equal skill together, the match goes evenly on average. This is why even said extremely absurdly good survivor players/killer players will occasionally have super tough matches or get defeated even in random pub matches the few times an actually even skill lobby happens.
And then you have the people that automatically assume that if they lost, it must be because they’re either facing a god SWF/god killer or that it’s overpowered. While somehow automatically assuming by default they themselves did good. But the god SWF/god killer argument is outright stupid in the first place. If you are facing god-tier players and you are not playing ANYWHERE NEAR that level, YOU SHOULD NOT EVER BE WINNING WHATSOEVER. Why would you win? That makes absolutely zero sense. And it clearly isn’t overpowered either, given actual even skill matches go… evenly.
If you are facing god-tier players and you are not playing ANYWHERE NEAR that level, YOU SHOULD NOT EVER BE WINNING WHATSOEVER.
I mean lower-tier killers are not winning. they're losing every single time.
When you put an extremely hyper-good player(s) against people that are nowhere near that level, the match will be a stomp. It does not matter what build the survivor runs, or what build/killer the killer runs
This is true for survivor side. If all of the survivor team is good, low-medium tier killers auto-lose regardless how good the killer player is. The killer player could be "better" than survivor but because he's not playing a good killer, he's still going to lose. This statement is one-directional.
Its true for survivor, its not true for killer. the killer could better than survivor, but will still lose because the game is survivor sided for ** most killers **
it must be because they’re either facing a god SWF/god killer or that it’s overpowered
in comparison to other killers, nurse is above all the other killers, so you could say nurse is overpowered or every other killer is under powered.
People act like they’re facing god survivors/god Nurses every time they face survivors/Nurse which is stupid and blatantly wrong
OP post is saying he faces nurse all the time as survivor. since the other killer cannot compete, all you end up facing at higher MMR of player for survivor is nurse and the exceptionally good blights and then you face some random weak killers that hard-camp hooks with NOED. the other killers that you don't see very much, they're not being seen because nobody can play the other killers at high MMR since they constantly lose to all the weaker survivor squads regardless of who plays them.
if your experience is not this as survivor, than your just facing baby killers. you need beat them first before you end up going against all nurses and blights.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054281#Comment_3054281
To be fair, they're also buffing perks that promote leaving the hook. Overcharge, for instance, on top of buffing generator kicking in general, and the new Monstrous Shrine as well.
I think at worst it'll break even on that regard, not make things any worse.
i'd say overcharge promotes the killer to camp generators. you know, hook a survivor, see a gen at 70%, kick gen, chill at the hook with the gen as the regression build-up. Monstrous shrine promotes proxy camping and encourages survivors to hook bomb. so i'd say both hooks are related to camping.
don't think it will make anything worse, just keep everything at status quo.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053434#Comment_3053434
No. It still would be. Even with the changes. There will be times where camping is neccesary. You can't remove player agency and the ability to defend and area. It's still going to be important.
That's why the devs addressed it the way they did. They incentivised NOT camping. By making it easier to end chases faster. But still allowing camping, because it's still important and part of the game sometimes.
I mean the killer is removing survivor agency in regards to facecamping hooks.
They incentivised NOT camping. By making it easier to end chases faster.
are you sure? They're weakening perks that promote leaving the hook. Pop goes weasel, Ruin, tinkerer, Pain res, BBQ. the base-kit chase are not good enough to go for many more chases.
I'd say their best bet in giving survivor agency is inventing a perk that upon beginning unhook, survivors become immune to being grabbed and are granted endurance status effect for 3/4/5 seconds. cooldown of 30 seconds similar to soul guard.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053884#Comment_3053884
Here’s the problem: what is Dissolution’s activation condition? Injuring a survivor. What does injuring a survivor do? Give them a mini sprint burst, and put the killer in a cool down animation.
The smart play is to always leave a tile with your injury speed boost (with or without Dissolution). You go for a new tile with chances for windows, undropped pallets, etc. By the time the killer catches up, Dissolution is already deactivated too. So at the very least, you would need to switch targets after activating Dissolution. Though all survivors in your terror radius are forewarned of the perk’s existence. All around it is a terrible perk.
perfect explanation. Dissolution notification is like if killer had notification for how long BT lasts upon unhook.
Imagine decisive strike icon showing every time your standing on the body of a survivor. that would be even worse.
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@Raccoon said:
Anyone know if her hindered add-on is decent?
i believe its 4% hindered for like 3 seconds. very bad. I'd say sadako is random garbage hits from TV teleporting from bad survivors and random garbage hits from 16 meter TR with M&A. just weak m1 killer pretty much.
her intended gameplay is suppose to be flying out of TV's completely invisible with massive speed boost from bloody finger nail add-on & building condemn stacks through TV's TP & green kid drawing but sadako's doesn't work properly at all because its way too slow, too ineffective and far too easy to counter.
Her TV teleportation projections have directional audio cue meaning survivor that pay attention will never be near a TV post-projection. Her condemn build-up is overall too slow. 1 stack condemn per 100 seconds from TV teleports at base-kit is laughable condemn build-up. TV projection cooldown at 100 seconds is too long of cooldown. Her phasing is too ineffective at loops. Flicking Invisibility doesn't do anything after first reappearance. Survivors will know the direction she is moving in a loop post-first reappearance. A longer phase like Spirit's phase-walk is far more effective. Lullaby on a undetectable stealth killer is just another running meme at this point.
From my previous paragraph, they're looking at least 6-7 buffs at different elements of her power before her power becomes remotely effective.
I wonder what the highest sadako MMR is, probably <1500 but maybe survivors are bad enough to die this killer. so who knows.
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@Slowpeach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052371#Comment_3052371
I don’t think they will change it either but if they don’t it’s always going to be an issue. They can give as many second chances band aids as they want, it ultimately won’t solve anything.
I'd say second chance perks adds risk to the strategy. your less likely to do the do strategy as the player if you think your going lose for trying to push a survivor into second stage/third stage by complete force.
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@Slowpeach said:
Bubba's problem isn't a balance one, it's a fun one. The counterplay is obvious but how much fun is that? It should absolutely be addressed.
The only real way to deal with camping (and tunneling) is change the 'losing' condition for survivors (i.e getting hooked 3 times) and/or changing how hooks work.
Anything else is going to be too intrusive or enable the unhooked or would be victim of tunneling/camping to punish killers who are not tunneling/camping.
It'd require a massive rework such as making all hooks work similar to Pyramid Head's ability, only you'd have to still take the survivor to a hook for it to teleport them to another hook (so the entity can savour in peace without the killer watching them eat, because that's creepy) so therefore camping is impossible or at the very least, the survivors have a better chance to rescue the victim. The problem is obvious though. A few things are based on the survivor being where they got hooked so it would require a lot of effort to fix and may cause other problems. One that immediately comes to mind is that basement would be rendered useless.
I agree with your post, but I do not think they will change entire-win conditions to address the fun-problems.
typically, they just add survivor second chance perks to address those fun problems. I'm surprised that there is no anti-face camping second chance perk. I'm sure survivor would use it to address their fun problems with leatherface & other killer that facecamp hooks.
they did have chance to change base-kit aspects on survivor in the 40 upcoming perk update, but it seems like they're ok with facecamping killer gameplay.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052280#Comment_3052280
I dont think there is no way to nerf her basekit that will make it more fair. But there are few other things that can make her less too oppressive
- Range addons
- Her blink attack counted as special attack. Exposed perks on her is too much to face.
i'd say her strength is her blink efficacy.
when they weaken killers like spirit for example giving her directional audio cue and weakening add-ons(such as removing her green speed shoes and green activation time add-on), they're weakening spirit's phase-walk efficacy. your giving the survivor more counter-play to spirit's ability, therefore spirit is less likely to hit survivors using spirit walk.
The reason why old omega blink nurse add-ons were so strong is because they boosted blink's efficacy. They still technically do. Reduce charge time of blinks increases your odds to hit blinks. Increasing blink movement speed also increases your odds to hit blinks.
So if they ever like "nerf nurse", they'll be attacking her blink efficacy such as increasing charge time needed to blink, reducing m/s during her phase-blink, giving survivors indicators for where she is blinking(similar change to directional audio cue spirit). technically reduce blink charges is also reducing her blink efficacy as well.
If changes like that ever happen to nurse, than Nurse with no longer be strongest killer in the game.
110% m/s 1 blink might be buff to nurse, especially for casual players. they'll be less reliant on blink and be less punishing if they fail blinks. I'd predict average kill-rate increase on that change
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3051844#Comment_3051844
Well I play Oni very well and I learned how to "flick" with him so maybe that's why
I used to play him all the time as well. now a days I prefer blight. his balance is better.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3051657#Comment_3051657
That's because they butchered Billy and he's is not hard to master he is easy just map dependent. Nurse is hard to learn and master because some can't get that muscle memory and have to use the plad cloth to get a simple target to where the blink is going to go.
never understood why people think flicking to do a curve with billy chainsaw is difficult. if you can't play billy very well, than your probably not going to be doing well with like 90% of the killers in this game. Billy just can't curve good survivors effectively anymore. he lost his chainsaw feathering and his tile-set play with add-on changes. I think I completely agree with your post.
Nurse definitely has highest skill-floor and highest skill-ceiling without question. I think people like @Phasmamain confuse a killer being under powered with difficult to play.
part of the reason why hillibilly had high skill-cieling in the past was because he could control the outcome of the chases with his chainsaw skills. He lost that control and with it, his skill-ceiling. Nurse retains complete control over outcome of the chase, so her skill-ceiling is untouched, for now.
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@Remedicist said:
I think all he needs is a faster base holding-knife speed. If he has to throw more knives to get an injure, then he should at least be encouraged to hold his knives more at a loop and exponentially slow down as he fires them like he already does. Otherwise some other things may just be a quality of life change like holding more knives.
he should have normal holding speed. the slowdown of holding his knifes just makes you constantly pull out knifes and pull them back constantly because of LOS counter. it makes his tile set gameplay completely rubbish. I am not exactly sure what slowdown of throwing more knifes is for either. he's meant to throw many knifes consecutively so its almost like your punished for using your power despite being a 110% m/s killer that relies on the power to be effective.
@ArchAbhor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3051604#Comment_3051604
It creates a scenario where he doesnt have to commit to a chase fully to down someone. He can return later or benefit from some game slowdown. Current trickster is oppressive in chase and his cooldown on blades makes it so he has to commit to the down or he wasted his time. Obviously with the method that im describing there would have to be some testing.
This is different then mending in that theres not a timer to remove them just a threat of picking up the chase where you left off with him. So it wont inhibit survivor game play like mending does. You could make it so that another teammate can remove the blades quicker. Deincentivizing removing them in chase. Hes also trading lethality for map pressure and game slowdown. So is it a nerf? I dont think so if implemented properly.
As he is now hes oppressive in the 1v1 and not fun at all for survivors. As killer he has no pressure so against good teams hes also not fun. These changes would also make camping less rewarding. Since if played right he can guarantee a trade.
he doesn't map pressure because his 1vs1 is not oppressive, its situational effective, works great in deadzones, but is ineffective at tiles. If your 1vs1 as killer isn't dominating, your not going have any map pressure as killer vs good team. this isn't complicated concept to understand. he can acquire gameplay slowdown by utilizing various killer perks that regress/block generators.
there isn't much reason for a killer who is centralized in 1vs1 to need switch targets. Like... this killer isn't wraith. he has no mobility. He either wins 1vs1 and wins or loses 1vs1 and loses entire game.
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you guys should stop talking about F-tier freddy.
just pretend he doesn't exist, just a dream. a nightmare dream. maybe one day he'll get revert.
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@Juniper_Autumn said:
Ideally it wouldn't be a nightmare to balance as the effects would be small enough to be flavourful without being super strong (but I also understand that balancing has never been this games strong suit) and again the abilities I posted are pure speculation and suggestion so if you feel like a different idea or a change to an idea would be better then I would be more than happy to hear it
I mean the issue with idea's like these are that 95% of passives given don't do much, but that might change certain outcome even if its very small % chance might be seen as superior choice.
just by default, everyone not playing meg would be in disadvantage since her bonus is probably strongest out the bonus presented, followed by Laurie's bonus, followed by Janes bonus. The latter two might not impact 99% matches but there is always that oddball chance it does.
I don't think passives are good way to express uniqueness of a character. If DBD was to make unique passives, I think the unique's should be related to base-kit exhaustion perk, like every character has default exhaustion perk and their exhaustion perk defines their play-style for outrunning the killer. that would be closer to DBD killer powers. Then again, certain exhaustion abilities are prefered way more than others. Asking BVHR to balance exhaustion abilities for each survivor will go about as well as killer powers.
in other words, it is not effort to make survivor unique. there is no reward for it and its mostly headache.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050086#Comment_3050086
I'm not sure why you are saying these things like they are unintuitive interactions. If the Survivors are healthy, that is indeed what would happen. If you don't want that to happen, do it before they get in range of the hooked Survivor.
I am pitching the idea for a Healthy Survivor (as in not injured) to not be one-shottable near a hooked Survivor.
they'd never do that as base-kit change, not intuitive. at best it might be a perk. a meta perk for sure.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049716#Comment_3049716
Being good at camping should never be a "desirable trait" IMO. Being able to pull that back through cutting off one-shotting is a decent start to dealing with that.
so how does that work for variety of killer powers?
Myer's pop's tier 3, he m1's someone near a hook, the survivor doesn't go down. Killer player is massively ??????? confused.
Oni pops his demon fury, wacks the survivor with the bat, the survivor doesn't down. big ???????
Clown hits the direct hit with the pinky finger add-on, hits the survivor. another big ??????
The chainsaw killers, billy and leatherface just get base-kit speedlimiter on their powers near hooks.
Definitely not an exploitable change. /sarcasm.
----
I think what your asking for is a perk that grants self-endurance effect when you unhook a survivor and prevents you from getting grabbed. Borrow time originally used to do this which is why it was once called an anti-camping perk. It no longer does that. Even if endurence was only for 5 seconds, I think many survivors would use that perk in their main load out.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049612#Comment_3049612
Because some Killers can be super good at camping the hook while others not as much purely because of the one-shots? It's not like being really good at hook camping should be a desirable trait in Killers.
dunno in certain situations, their restriction on ability power near hook is annoying. Like artist for example, when a survivor is looping in a tileset, the inability to places crows can hurt the killer in a chase. Victor's anti-camp mechanic doesn't even do anything because you can place victor before acquiring the hook.
one of my games as dredge was I had a survivor in basement, I found another survivor to chase post-hook, I hit them and than they run to the basement and at first, I was like, what he is doing, than I remember that you can't tp to lockers, so that blocking locker mechanic prevents you from cutting the survivor off. punishes proxy camping for some reason.
in current iteration of the game, being good at camping is desirable trait. Being good at tunneling and slugging are also desirable traits. they're just not very fun for survivor to play against, mainly because camping reduces your skill as survivor since you get only 1 chase if you die in 1 hook. Tunneling can be unfun because the killer that generally tunnel are those that do not get punished hard by Decisive strike. Its more along lines of like Nurse that just pick you up on every down or blight tunnels straight off hook. Like when killer tunnel, they do it because it wins them games, same logic as camping. slugging for survivor can be unfun for survivor if your get slugged and keep getting re-slugged after being picked-up. It really only happens with Twins and victor slugging. The other killers typically slug A) avoid DS or B) map-pressure purposes.