Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108742#Comment_3108742
Agreed.
And the funny part is, this was what OG thana was.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZJ86DX7I8DK0/image.png
Idk why they changed it.
that version includes healing debuffs. changed it because according to them, it was a lose/lose and its unfair for killer to get rewards for spreading injuries on across entire survivor team. you know.. to not promote tunneling one survivor out of the game from 1 stack.
if they're really upset that legion and plague use it, then just make it affect only healing, so people that use sloppy butcher as game-slowdown can use it to make their sloppy butcher better. it won't affect gens, it won't do anything for plague since broken and -healing has no synergy and people follow their words of wisdom to not heal against legion and rush gens against feral frenzy.
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@Doroc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104577#Comment_3104577
Since nobody answered this I'll explain to you how it works.
The kill % statistics take into account ALL ranks. Believe it or not but majority of dbd players are casuals who will probably never play at the level where actual balance matters. Why? Because on low level killer is always going to be superior. Why? Because survivor are much harder to play for novice players who have no experience. Swinging your weapon at clueless surviviors is easier than looping.
If you were to take 5 people new to the game and tell them to play both sides against each other I'd bet most if not all games would end in 4k. And that's exactly why the kill rate is so high and why the kill rate argument is completly irrelevant here. Because what we talk about is balance and balance applies to players who know how to play.
Before the patch most of the killers playing against top level survivors would require actual survivor ######### ups to get 2k and to get a fabled 4k survivors would need to crash and burn, trip on their own legs and go afk for 1 min to eat nuggies (it's a joke, don't take this literally lol). No matter how good they actually are, they need survs to be bad to win. That's not balance.
And yes, nurse and blight are strong, but that's 2 out of what, 30 killers? If 7% of all killers are strong it doesn't make all killers strong.
Again - I could bet my arm that if you narrowed the stats down to the top level players (which is impossible because how do you actually determine who that is), you'd get kill rate at least below 50%, I'd guess probably even below 40%.
I'm not arguing that's how the game should be, I think a slight imbalance towards survivors is how the game will do best because casuals are still a majority of players and game needs those casuals to be invested, but saying that survivors want balance and that game was balanced before is laughable.
And no, I am not a killer main, I actually am survivor main who also get annnoyed by randoms running my games down and soloq being a huge pain. But I'm not blaming killers for being too strong, I blame fellow survivors who got used to being op and are being unable to adapt.
I just want to say that this post is so true and perfect describes the dynamic of the game.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
It is now a anti tunnel perk for your team.
For every other bodyblock you can stick by the tunneled survivor instead of running away.
The killer has to either take another bodyblock or stop tunneling.
If he stops the tunneled person can heal you. If the killer comes back you still have MoM. When you are healed you can heal the tunneled survivor and if the killer comes back you can still bodyblock and it makes the next activation even sooner.
The more i think about it the more i realise the community was really silly having the kneejerk reaction of calling it a nerf
It actually seems to be a decent perk now instead of meme tier
that is exactly how I see it getting used. from throwing game meme-tier to decent if you bodyblock correctly with it.
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@MB666 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108175#Comment_3108175
agreed , this perk wasnt stronger but was a bit to powerful on legion and plague , making gens really opressive to get done if teammates arent smashing gens constantly , soo with this change only 1 needs to heal always to prevent gens taking a huge amount of time , sadly this change aswell makes the perk way more weaker and even less viable for other killer than are not Legion / Plague.
but to be fair i think Solo Q still needs a proper buff , i dont think people are disconnecting just by thana , i think the lack of infomation + gens having a more balanced state+ killer buffs + the second chance perks nerfed , totally shows how solo Q was a bit depending of those stroonger perks to carry a bad team.
but to be fair i think Solo Q still needs a proper buff , i dont think people are disconnecting just by thana , i think the lack of infomation + gens having a more balanced state+ killer buffs + the second chance perks nerfed , totally shows how solo Q was a bit depending of those stroonger perks to carry a bad team.
definitely, soloq always relied on the stronger perks to succeed where as swf never needed them and only used them because it made their games easier assuming everyone who was playing was high mmr good.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
It's not dead, Its just only playable for two killers and with some counterplay (healing).
I am happy for Thana nerf however I probably wish for other change where other killers can use it too but it is not so strong as right now.
its completely dead because most of its uptime is on 1,2 and 3 stack which are now meaningless. also if you read their post. they specific said that one of reasons they are changing the perk is because of thanotophobia quick rose to popularity.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107599#Comment_3107599
And i do mean that literally, i would still run DMS+PR if the combo still worked with 0% regression PR
well DMS switch is getting nerfed because survivor can let go of generator when you hook, so the gen explodes, than survivor go back on gen and by the time you walk to gen, 15 seconds passed. so now dead man switch has only 15 seconds left.
one of skills of using dead man switch was blocking gens and letting the survivor sit there with a blocked gen while pressuring other survivors. some survivors might switch to another gen but the slowdown has always been done by the fact that survivor is now walking to other gens or waiting for full 30 sec of remaining timer to work on it again.
now with reduced timer of 30 secs, you only need wait 10-15 sec so the slowdown has been weakened so dramatically if the survivor counter-plays it properly. all this assumes you have info perk like BBQ since pain res doesn't give info anymore. the change prevent you from using the perk because survivor can now sit there waiting for gen to unblock so you might as just chase them now instead of pressuring two survivors at once. another silly change that might kill the perk.
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@MrJack20252 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107706#Comment_3107706
yes it is the conspicuous action thing that ruins and the 24/7 wallhack on you that ruins everything for me. to active MoM i already waste a lot of time, now to keep it active i must not do the objective or saving someone? this defeats the purpose of the perk and it is illogical.
the conspicuous action is specifically there so that the survivor cannot use it with Object of Obsession to gain permanent wallhacks on the killer. Well technically you can have perma wallhack but you can't repair generator or heal.
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@MrJack20252 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107505#Comment_3107505
Dead Hard with extra steps.
mettle of man does not need timing. it has 100% accuracy. dh needs timing to make that same play. i hope nobody uses the perk.
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@ElleGreen said:
This would give you distance and make the perk more viable. It Is clear to everyone how useless the 3 seconds Is. The 2 second sprint burst might make the killers drop the tunnel after. Tunneling has been horrible ever since the DS nerf. DS should punish tunneling killers tunneling Is very annoying. Please make this perk useful again it was already balanced before the 500th nerf. Make better choices BHVR please :)
ds is not useless. Dead hard+DS+OTR is strongest anti-tunnel builds. you get unhooked, the killer hit you. you go down. the killer picks you up, you can dead hard now.
its second chance into second chance into second chance. DS purpose is now to clear deep wound from OTR.
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i don't agree that the change is nerf. this perk grant certain free escapes in the end game with BT. If the killer does not facecamp hook. if you have 1 stack of mettle of man and you successfully unhook a survivor when healthy. If the killer shows up and hits you, you gain 1 stack of mettle of man for being next to an injured survivor and the other person has BT.
The conspicuous action does not do anything if the survivor completes unhook and bodyblocks for the injured survivor.
so now unhooked person has BT endurence with 7% haste and you have mettle of man active so killer can't hit you because you get sprint burst to the exit gate but killer doesn't know that, so he just hits you anyway because you are injured, so free escape.
potential S-tier perk in end game scenarios from completely useless. Not saying that it will get nerfed, but it has potential get nerfed. A perk that is designed to punish the killer for performing an m1 will never be good design.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107244#Comment_3107244
Yes, of course Thana was nerfed on every other killer harder than on Plague and Legion. But I still think it will not be as oppressive on those two killers anymore. Not sure if it's enough, and I do think they should have nerfed Thana in a completely different way, but at least it's nerfed, even on Plague and Legion. It's just going to be useless on every other killer.
And again, I don't think that's optimal at all. However, I'd rather have it useless on every killer except Legion and Plague, than be op on Plague and Legion.
it is useless on every killer now. just have one person healthy against legion/plague and the perk has no relevant output. it gets 0.5% buff and now it get 60% nerf.
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it will disappear on every killer including legion and plague because relevant effect will have no uptime whatsoever. so good job. bad on every killer now.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
So you reworked Thanatophobia to where it now provides an up to 2% penalty to repairing and cleansing times for Survivors, with an additional 12% penalty when all four Survivors are injured, hooked or dying.
This means that Thanatophobia afflicts a total 20% penalty to Survivors that are all injured, hooked or dying.
The change makes it even more useless on Killers that don't normally benefit from it but still makes it powerful on the same exact Killers that do benefit from it.
Developers, I don't think you understand the core issue with Thanatophobia in the first place. This change will not change a thing that you will be seeing going forward with matches against characters that benefit from the Perk's effects in full--namely, Legion and Plague.
The reason that Thanatophobia is strong on a minority of Killers is because of their ability to quickly injure all Survivors and inflict either Mangled or Broken to them.
- In the case of The Legion, he can afflict either the Mangled status effect with Defaced Smiley Pin or the Broken status effect with Legion Pin.
- In the case of The Plague, she can afflict the Broken status effect natively with Vile Purge.
This does not address the inherent problem with Thanatophobia--the fact certain Killers are able to get 4 Survivors fully injured and retain their injuries in the first place.
Please do not rework Thanatophobia the next patch; you are just going to make it an even more exclusive Perk that even less of a minority of Killers are going to greatly benefit from while making it completely and utterly useless on the majority of Killers.
You need to find a different workaround instead of what you currently have. The Perk needs to be changed to benefit ALL Killers but not be as effective on a small minority of Killers, not changed to be ineffective to MOST Killers but be as effective on a small minority of Killers.
So please do NOT push out the rework. You're just going to make things worse.
they fixed problem by making the perk never trigger. only 1 person needs cleanse and entire effect might as well not exist for plague and you can spread out against legion such that he can't get his 4 hits so the perk once again has insignificant effect.
The other killers might as well forget the perk even exists.
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Thano is now completely dead perk. its worse then what it was pre-patch and its weaker than any of its previous iterations. its not even good on legion or on plague because all it takes is one person to be healthy and entire perk has little to no effect. what even is the point in stacks 1,2,3, they might as well just be 0%. you have to be rank 20 to be having 4 survivors injured on purpose.
pain res+dead man switch is weaker then its old iteration pre-patch but its now the meta perks if you run slowdown/gen defense on killer.
Mettle of man is a perk where the killer get punished for hitting the survivor..... this perk design is never good.... the killer has lack of counter-play in not hitting the survivor when carrying a survivor to the hook. The trigger condition for mettle of man activating is incredibly obnoxious for the killer. this perk doesn't need buffs, its need rework for how it triggers.
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105887#Comment_3105887
If you have survivors that mass cleanse, Thana does nothing.
Making sure survivors give you a flamethrower for 60 seconds is not exactly "nothing"
Thana on Plague is not at all controversial, it's a win-win
Survivors don't cleanse? Ok, enjoy long repair times
Survivors cleanse? Oh, I guess I'm a Huntress that shoots 15 hatchets in a row for 60 seconds
do you know which other killer shoots 15 hatchers in a row? trickster. many killers in the game have anti-loop and their anti-loop is base-kit. Corrupt puke plague is no different really. your suppose to use her slow movement when charging, slow projectile speed and slow wind-up to prevent her from getting a clear shot.
plague is easiest killer to utilize line of sight against, even easier than trickster. the flamethrower nature of her ability prevents you from using zig-zag strategies that is commonly used against huntress, deathslinger and to lesser extend trickster. Just like all other ranged killers, high-walls loop are great counter to plague with corrupt puke. Low-walls loops are completely useless against corrupt puke plague. Luckily she does not always have corrupt puke plague so you can use low-walls when she does not have it and high-walls when she does have it unlike other 3.
not cleansing at all is dumb strategy because plague can infect survivors and hook-trade when everyone is injured. Cleansing recklessly in convenient locations just makes your chase harder because your making her corrupt puke active on every chase with no time investment.
plague is balancing act between cleansing at correct times in long distances where getting corrupt puke for plague is impractical as time investment while over-cleansing at times to consume all fountains. plague has 6 fountains, so if 2-3 fountains are active, you can over-cleanse on purpose and consume all 6 fountains. it does give her power automatically, but a single usage of her ability is not instant game over. she has 1 fountain at base-kit corrupted and that 1 fountain is not instant win.
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@RedCloud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104853#Comment_3104853
And was it too powerful?
unsure. I only played with it for like 3 games in PTB. its main complaint was that survivor could purpose hook bomb hooks. basically if a survivor just charges to the hook, if you hit them during unhook animation, you would get stack of mettle of man and safe unhook would give you another stack of mettle of man.
with 2 stacks, the next time a killer would hook someone, you could just purposely bodyblock the hook to activate mettle of man. The killer would be punished for defending hooks. Like even though the survivor is standing like 10 feet in front of you, it would be detriment to hit them.
I would say it would been better if they removed protection hits and kept safe unhooks because current MoM forces you to practically throw games to activate its effect. with that being said, its a lot easier to activate now because of OTR. you can get healed and bodyblock the hook 2 times when killer pick up a survivor and walks to the hook then just do same hook bomb when healthy with borrow time that i talked about in paragraph 1. More of than not, you can bait the killer into purposely following you and hitting you just as you unhook. Its still large time sink that make your team waste time healing you instead of doing core objective which is gens.
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fun fact, when mettle of man changed from basic attacks to protection hits, Safe unhooks used to count towards building up the perk. It was changed in PTB.
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@not_requested49 said:
So basically punish killers for NOT tunneling? Thats a terrible idea
It would be much better idea to keep it disabled when the exit gates are powered, but revert the stun back to 5 seconds or make it repeatedly usable
that is stronger than old ds. I already see survivors using dead hard-decisive strike-off the record when I'm playing blight. Its not on every survivor yet but taking 2 ds, 2 off the record and dealing with dead hard. big oof for killer. not losing to it yet, but taking 2 decisive strikes is definitely going to hurt.
the meta build i am starting to see on survivor is DS+DH+OTR+Prove thyself.... why did start using that prove thyself perk.... ugh i liked it better when people weren't using that one.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103882#Comment_3103882
Excuse me, have you actually seen good Oni players? Oni is a really solid killer even in comp. You're just talking nonsense without having an actual clue of what you're saying
he's solid against players that aren't good at looping m1 and do poorly against his demon fury. he's hard-forced to tunnel/camp/slug to be remotely effective. His mechanic at base is really good way to neuter killer any killer power, so nurse would definitely suffer from Oni's system.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103849#Comment_3103849
Even with the 10 seconds the buff is nothing.
22% of 80 would be 18 seconds with all 4 injured.
22% of 90 current thana is 20
Old thana was 20% of 80 16 seconds.
Everyone is complaining about Thana going up by 4 seconds with everyone injured.
Thana is not the issue whatsoever.
i think this has been talked about so many times, Thana does not add additional time on generators. it reduces survivors repair efficiency by x %.
survivors repair generator at 1 charge per second by default and each generator is 90 charges. so 90 charges/1 = 90 second generators.
thana at 4 stacks(all 4 survivor injured) reduces survivor repair efficiency by 22%, so 1 charges per second becomes 0.78 charges per 1 second.
this means that for every 1 second that a survivor repair generator, they progress 0.78 charges of the generator. you are progressing generators less than 1%. to find out how long it takes you to finish 1 generator solo, you divide number of charges for a generator by how fast you repair generators.
90/0.78 = 115 seconds. you will take 25 seconds longer to do generators.
for reference old thanotophobia was 80/0.8 = 100 seconds(20 second longer generators).
thana is only 5 seconds extra compare new patch. it has barely changed and being at 4 stacks for entire game is not likely and is not advised for any killer.
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@Sunkisses_ that sounds like something they would do on nurse. they'd lower her skill-floor by giving her plaid flannel base-kit similar to pinhead's gateway and give visual indicator where the blink is going for survivor to react to the blink which lower skill-floor for nurse and it makes it easier survivor to play against her combine with lower lunge range.
it would close to spirit change where killer is easier to play but less powerful overall since survivor has more control over the ability.
@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3102471#Comment_3102471
sooner or later Oni will get a hit whether it be from unsafe pallets, bloodlust or changing chases using Moniter. Plague can start with up to 3 fountains and always has at least 1. Not to mention everyone being broken is a huge advantage for exploiting altruism and snowballing regardless of if you have red puke or not
Both are considered high A tier which is actually very balanced imo
oni is great example of a killer where his drawback is so severe that it makes him unable to compete against good teams. having ~90 forced cooldowns from orb collections makes him terrible vs swf. in practice Oni is suppose have weak early game, but if he gets hit, he's suppose to snowball and be able recycle his ability, but that doesn't really happen at default vs strong teams.
there's currently bug that makes survivors drop double blood orbs with current Oni, so current Oni with bug is close to what default Oni should be like, but its bug for now that will likely get fixed.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103587#Comment_3103587
There one very easy trick to see if you are at the MMR cap, every single game you play, every single person runs meter perks in every slot. It isn't hard to tell, you definitely can. Before the patch I was at 4 dead hard MMR on my huntress, and I have only 4kd several games since then, there is no way my huntress isn't over the cap.
well you can't tell anymore. the easy way to figure out if you were at high MMR was dead hard. if more 4/4 have it, your likely at high MMR since having 80% of your matches with 4/4 dead hard's matches the 75% pick-rate of dead hard that dev showed.
now there no real way to tell until new perk meta is formed. that was good thing about dead hard, it told you if you were facing push-overs or good players. now they weakened dh so no way to find out. maybe if new meta forms like everyone running off the record, than we might be able to figure out again.
but yes facecamping is huge problem. no perks really counter it and only thing survivors can do to mitigate its effectiveness is rush generators and get two people out vs certain killers.
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@C3Tooth said:
Many weak addon does need a buff. But Im happy now that Vera rare addon now actually...very rare.
Perhaps this is why they buff Killers in general.
purple add-on and iri are very-rare. they now fit their rarity. too bad some killers base-kit are so bad that they need rare and very-rare to do anything. at least you'll see less people spamming purple med-kits now as survivor.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
I mean, yes. But also no. Killers should have to play better than the team to get a 4k, but you shouldn't have to be like basically Sora and Shiro to win games. Playing perfectly, or close to it, is just unreasonable, as everyone makes mistakes.
No game no life anime reference. I think he is asking which side should need to play more perfectly to win. i would say survivor because survivor gets more health-states in total and they get 3 hook-states. they get more chances to play bad where as killer gets less chances to play bad since 5 generators can go faster than 12 hooks. it takes a lot longer for killer to kill you then it takes survivor to finish 5 gens and gates.
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@bluemyst42 said:
With all the changes to the game, this perk is constanly ignored by the devs. If you are the last survivor in the match, you can repair generators 75% faster? Even if it was a good idea to repair gens as the last survivor (which it isnt), but now it isnt posibble anymore.
As a rework, have it increase your repair speed for each survivor sacrificed/killed. And the open exit gates faster is fine, but isnt hatch opening with a key instant? I admit I havent opened the hatch once since they were changed.
I dunno, but with all the recent perk changes (and there were A LOT) why did this one go untouched. If its not going to be fixed then at least remove the part about repairing gens, because it shows that the devs dont even understand their own game.
key got nerfed. they're not instant. you need pick-lock for like 5 seconds.
sole survivor is only useful for wake up to get 80% gate opening speed during end game. repair bonus is a joke although old sole survivor was like worst perk in the game, the only purpose for it was to counter scratch mirror Myers when your last survivor alive.
the perk has use now... but why would anyone use wake+up sole survivor? I guess you can use it if your dying 10/10 games and your last person alive. shrug
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3102878#Comment_3102878
They based their 39 perk changes on usage data. Pharmacy was one of the least used perks, so the changes it received were meant to increase its usage. They just have don't play their own game, have quality control or even run it by a few 10k hours gamers, so they thought they buffed it. Self Care and Botany were overused and thus received nerfs to decrease their usage and med-kit efficiency was the low hanging fruit.
That's why many of the perk changes are horrible for the game. BBQ & Chili was an extremely good perk for the game both for survivors and killers as it encourage healthy gameplay while giving killers an incentive to use it. They just thought "It's massively overused, must nerf."
maybe. Botany knowledge wasn't really in the chart. Self-care however was. botany knowledge from ptb loss 33% med-kit efficiency. After at which it lost -20% med-kit efficiency post-ptb. probably noticed that botany knowledge+med kit increases survivor escape-rate but..... med-kit in general do not need botany to be effective, but botany does need med-kits to be relevant. Just really strange logic. I am not even going pretend to try understand it.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3102828#Comment_3102828
"I would say that vast majority of maps are nearly as survivor-sided as fracture cowshed."
I would agree with you 100%. Another streamer, Truetalent, has pressed the opinion for some time now that most of the pallets in DBD remove the skill away from the killer in a chase. And while this is not true for all killers it is true for most of them. If you look at most of the maps we play on you will find that most of the pallets are "safe".
Overall we have pretty much removed the majority of pallets that can be easily mind gamed. Once upon a time the ratio of safe to unsafe pallets was closer to like 50/50. One of the worst things that has happened over time is that we just remove the ability of killers to deal with these pallets unless they are playing a killer that can basically ignore them : Nurse, Blight, PH, Nemesis, etc.
It is no surprise that we see so many people playing those killers in high numbers. If we made Deja Vu the best survivor perk in the game it would literally be no surprise if we saw 75% of the top players immediately start using it.
"With trapper and most m1 killer that have ineffective powers, there is no difference between being 9k hours and being 900 hours on killer."
You have the right idea but your expression is not correct. If we took some 900 hour killer and made them play against Hens (the second survivor in the video) I think he could probably last 60-90 seconds longer on average than he did against Otz.
The idea is : Safe pallets remove the ability for most killers to exert pressure in a chase. But even with the disadvantage of playing trapper with no traps - Otz still has quite a few tricks up his sleeve. There are subtle differences you will notice with different streamers in how they move their camera. CoconutRTS for example has an amazing camera flick around tiles that is always very clean/neat/precise. In the case where someone is doing something "not allowed" that I am not even allowed to properly mention Otz's camera movement is far more "readable". You will know what I mean by this if you are familiar with how people are doing things that are against the rules.
You don't camera flicks with 900 hours of play. With that number of hour count you don't think things like : I'm going to push him to X direction and then break the pallet. You don't have the same level of geometry understanding of the tiles that you have with 3000 hours. You might be thinking I want them on this side of the pallet or that side but you don't really have a "soft count" of bloodlust in your head that you do with 3000 hours of play.
"what has meaning is 9000 hours is nurse"
I don't think that will be true forever.
Otz still has quite a few tricks up his sleeve. There are subtle differences you will notice with different streamers in how they move their camera. CoconutRTS for example has an amazing camera flick around tiles that is always very clean/neat/precise. In the case where someone is doing something "not allowed" that I am not even allowed to properly mention Otz's camera movement is far more "readable". You will know what I mean by this if you are familiar with how people are doing things that are against the rules.
your talking about red glow mindgames. there are different reasons to why certain killer don't utilize this against the survivor. for example in tru3 cases, he doesn't have complicated camera movement because there is lack of pay-off for using it. against very experienced loopers, there is more risk to using red glow mind games because the killer cannot hear survivors in a chase clearly above chase music, so if a killer tries confuse the survivor for what direction they're going, the survivor can just leave loop in many instances and avoid red glow mindgame. This is largely reason why survivor's Iron will perk was strong but this off-topic. there is also the case that... a lot of loops do not provide many places to red glow mindgame because you can see the killer through the walls.
in some killer cases, they do not use it because it does not work against everyone. the logic is, why learn a gameplay mechanic that only works against worse players? you can use this logic with killer powers as well.
Of course, I don't agree with this idea because majority of survivor are not exceptionally loopers so just because it does not work against everyone does not mean it is not useful.
In Otz case, I believe it because he is primarily killer main. red glow is one of those gameplay mechanics where you need to play survivor at high-level to understand how to use red glow mindgames. ConconutRTS is pretty good at survivor so his experience with survivor translates into better killer play for M1. Otz lacks the survivor experience so it makes more difficult for him to use red glow mindgames as you will not know what to look for as killer. In otz case, I will say his lack red glow mindgames comes from survivor inexperience.
as for what to look for in detail? we'll just skip that part but like I said in previous paragraph, red glow mindgames are not applicable everywhere and not that rewarding in the grand scheme of a dbd match so in term of performance, the outcome of 900 hour killer is not that much different than 9000 hour killer. killers have low skill-floor but not very high skill-ceiling because their skill-expression is quite low in comparison to the survivor.
Overall we have pretty much removed the majority of pallets that can be easily mind gamed. Once upon a time the ratio of safe to unsafe pallets was closer to like 50/50.
Not true. the maps in 2017 in term of pallets are the same or stronger. Like Cowshed hasn't changed. you can play cowshed in 2018 and play cowshed in 2022 and the pallets are the same. If anything map were stronger before since there used to be infinity windows in older dbd and it used to apply in normal loops. Like if you played cow loop in old farm maps, it used to be 2 windows one at each side instead of a window and a pallet and back then, the concept of entity blocking and bloodlust did not exist. players just called them infinities. Just to use that cowshed map for example, the building in had windows in the barn and now a days, you can just break the breakable wall on both sides to reduce the strength of those windows... but back than, breakable did not exist, so in certain positions you just auto-looped the killer for free.
Picture the garden of joy right window on bottom floor. that was on every single map. conclusively, map were way stronger in old dbd.
One of the worst things that has happened over time is that we just remove the ability of killers to deal with these pallets unless they are playing a killer that can basically ignore them : Nurse, Blight, PH, Nemesis, etc.
I don't m1 trapper with traps was ever viable on most maps. You are right that strong pallets divide the weaker killers from stronger killers among many other problems.
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@Nos37 said:
Right, and rummaging with Appraisal doesn't work around that either.
i don't think it was meant to be a buff. i think the general consensus was that med-kit are overpowered and pharmacy provides a med-kit therefore the perk is too strong. it makes sense because if you look at self-care change and botany change, both remove med-kit efficiency. now even reduce med-kit efficiency.
so their general alignment was. let's weaken the perk that improve med-kits since they get complaints on daily basis that med-kit are too strong probably from redit killers & steam, twitter. I mean if they were looking to weaken med-kits, the perk certainly weren't what was making them strong. all they have to do make med-kits less powerful is remove the self-healing action on med-kits. it balances their add-ons, now you can't use purple endurence add-on on yourself, you can't use over-time heal in-chase on yourself and the med-kit won't help you when your injured, it only helps other teammates and you still need find other teammates to heal you.
instead they went and weaken perks that weren't problematic instead of addressing the item that other people find problematic.
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@ad19970 said:
Cowshed is arguably the most survivor sided map in the game. I agree that maps like it need to be made more balanced, but these maps are a very bad representation of the game's balance, because most maps aren't that bad.
Also, Otz played a Trapper without traps, so just an M1 killer without any power. So fo course chases will take longer.
But Cowshed is definitely an awful map. That map and Eyrie of Crows are the two worst maps in the game in my opinion.
i would say that vast majority of maps are nearly as survivor-sided as fracture cowshed. like difference between cowshed and other maps is that cowshed for example has every single loop that is safe, 100% of them. like 20/20 pallets force the killer to kick them if the survivor is good. its so hard to make mistake on an 100% fully safe map that the practical only hits that survivor will get from this map is being bunched up in corner and the killer kicking a pallet in the corner and hits at hooks(camping). that is why you can do 3 minute chases on the map.
with other maps, its not 100%. its not 20/20. its more like.... 14/20 but its not really better because you still have to chase the survivor through 60% of the map that is safe. the maps being unsafe and supposedly killer favored are huge outliers. most of the maps end up being indoor maps and to nobody surprise... that is largely because classic tileset are not able to spawn on indoor maps... like jungle gym do not exist on midwich elementary school. they don't exist on old Hawkins. they don't exist lery and than the few indoor maps that are more killer-sided end up being maps that either have too few pallets like shelter wood is outdoor map that lacks total pallet resources even though most of pallet resources that exist are generally pretty strong for survivor. Dead dog saloon is maybe single outlier where it has a lot of pallets but most of the pallets are short junk loops. in term of maps the unsafe maps are outliers while safe maps are vast majority.
@DBDVulture said:
In this video Otz plays against survivors in the 1v1 Scenario. Most of the people he plays against can make the chase last anywhere from one to three minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ca5XPVfY48
The ability for any one survivor to be able to run a killer like this breaks the game. Something needs to change. It's absurd that we see some chases last for three minutes and quite a few go for two minutes. Remember this is not some random low skill baddie getting juiced. This is a veteran streamer with approximately 9k hours.
One option is to change most of the maps so pallet density creates more dead zones and allows for fewer pallet into pallet/vault scenarios. Scott Jund talked about this in his dream patch notes scenario where there would be a "resource density" balance mechanism.
Another option would be to have killers not lose their bloodlust when kicking/getting hit by pallets.
People say things like : Killers tunnel too often. Well why does that happen? One of the contributing factors is that maps like this need to be completely reworked so that a chase is about X seconds (let's say 60 seconds as an example). A good chase is +10 seconds and a very good chase is +20 seconds.
And yes before you ask I agree that Nurse needs changes. I'd be down to nerf Nurse, Blight, most of the large/safer maps and SWF all in the next big "shake up".
Remember this is not some random low skill baddie getting juiced. This is a veteran streamer with approximately 9k hours.
This is going to sound very egotistical but it really is a low skill baddie getting juiced. With trapper and most m1 killer that have ineffective powers, there is no difference between being 9k hours and being 900 hours on killer. The m1 killers lack killer skill expression. The only skill expression the killer is their ability so if their ability sucks, it does not matter whose playing the killer. The only skill that matters is the survivor skill at that point. the survivor has to play bad for their killer chase to be short.
for killer skill to mean anything, the killer power has to exceptionally versatile and applicable in every situation all the time with high rewards. trapper has high rewards, instant down for a trap, but the application of his traps are limited in nature. long time to setup making them hard to use in chase, you need to be next to the survivor to get instant down, otherwise its just an injure, easy to spot making them not applicable in many situations. 9000 hours on killer has little meaning. what has meaning is 9000 hours is nurse. that has meaning. why? Because her power is exceptionally versatile and applicable in all situations and it has high rewards(ignoring all window/pallet design and health-state design) for being good at blinks.
what does trapper have to work with? 10% pallet break speed.
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@SlowLoris said:
Yeah, the new Eruption is frustrating for a lot of reasons.
- In solo queue it's very hard to tell exactly when a survivor is going to go down
- You cannot tell the other survivors that you are incapacitated so they just run up to you teabagging for a heal and you have to stare at them like an idiot
- It might not seem like it, but 25 seconds is a LONG TIME. At least with DMS you could go cleanse a totem, heal, open a chest, etc.....Eruption? I just have to stand there and twiddle my thumbs.
Having a visual indicator that someone is incapacitated would be nice - perhaps a small glow of chains around a survivor or something. But also, I'd rather they revert the buff to incapacitation and buff it in a different way. I actually have a whole folder of clips where a killer was saved from me beamer saving by getting Eruption value BEFORE the buff, so the incapacitated value wouldn't be useless, it just wouldn't be extremely boring.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure how you'd buff it without basically making it better POP. Maybe a buff to how many times you have to kick? Kind of like how you use Oppression and it starts other gens regressing. Perhaps it could count the 2 other closest gens as being kicked? I think if the Incap time was nerfed a bit, this wouldn't be so bad, and would save time kicking. Obviously they wouldn't activate kick perks automatically, but they would explode from Eruption.
incapacitated effect is denied healing and denied generators. I don't think you can 1:1 the effect but you can make it close.
eruption could do 10% of generator then block generator for 25 seconds. it won't have denied healing aspect though. small side effect is that perks like surge+eruption wouldn't work with it if gen is blocked. Also blocked generator do not regress at 400% though you could add... 7% regression after the gen unblocks.
just another one of those perks that loses half effectiveness vs swf.
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@tester said:
"once killers figure it out most will cut back on full slow builds" - lol, that's not how it works. Just search youtube for "dbd 50 win streak" to understand that people will continue stomping if they are allowed to stomp. Next up: a barrage of videos "dbd 100 win streak"
Edit: or even better, tell me how it's a balanced game with fair matchmaking that allows 136 wins streak?
well balanced killer. has lowest kill-rate. apparently. freddy is too strong, 4k too often.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3099504#Comment_3099504
I know 0.12 seconds is a small number, but keep in mind it takes 1.5 seconds to do an unhook. So prepatch the hit recovery with full 8 token STBFL as 1.2 seconds, which meant there is a 0.3 second window to do a second hit in a row on someone trying an unhook next to you. While post-patch the recover is 1.08 seconds (that 0.12 seconds faster you mentioned) which means that window is now 0.42 seconds, a 40% increase. That means it’s relatively speaking a lot easier to get that second hit in because your margin of error is 40% larger.
So that 0.12 second change actually does make a noticeable difference in hook trades. In chases it’s not quite as noticeable, basically it’s a 0.5 meter less distance gained by the survivor, which can change the outcome in close chases but you wouldn’t necessarily realize it as it happened. It would be a statistically significant slight boost over the course of a lot of chases but small enough you’re not going to really see it and go WOW.
Personally I think mainly because of the hook trade difference they might end up tweaking STBFL so its total net recovery speed after a hit is the pre-patch 1.2 seconds. That speed was plenty fast to make STBFL be a good perk that got used a reasonable amount. This new version is just very slightly overtuned.
what's overtuned? you can still unhook. if you want adjust to old time in regards to camping, you can just decrease unhook time to 1.4 or 1.35....
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@lemonsway said:
I partially agree.
The only way for me to understand the DS change is because of OTR, they didn't want survivors to use OTR and DS together as that would make for a very very strong anti-tunnel but also would give Survivors a free 3rd and 4th healstate they could abuse and put a Styptic or MoM on top. DS was already changed to cancel because of Conspicuous actions so it wasn't the ah you can't touch me weapon that it used to be and that was fine. Still very popular but not longer abusable by survivors so i don't get why extra nerfs.
In the end OTR now deactivates with Conspicuous actions aswell and can't be used if you have to Mend so the extra nerfs to DS just seem poorly thought out. Maybe they were done just to keep the "Meta Change" label.
A DH change was absolutly needed but was the change they did the right one? DH was opressive in every scenario. E for Distance was the worst feeling for a killer. Knowing you've outplayed, out spaced a Survivor but the Miracle of E denying a killer of all the work is something absolutly demoralizing and worse is that you have to expect dissapointment everytime you wanted swing at an injured survivor.
Hacks for Auto DH were running rampant aswell which just inflated the whole scenario to an even higher height.
As good as no more E for Distance feels it heavily limits the useability DH now has.
I'd simply remove the invulnerability aspect of DH, so that if you hit someone at any point they go down, this avoids the moments where you hit them but DH saved them from the hit and gave them distance.
By removing the Invulnerability, aka the 3rd health state, you could still get a down even if a survivor used DH. If they screwed the spacing, they'd get hit and go down but good use of DH would still reward you with a longer chase.
This way you don't double punish killer, if they hit you go down but if they don't hit then survivors gets the distance they deserved, would it still suck for killers? Yes but only if they couldn't hit but it would be more punisheable to survivors who use DH as the 3th health state. Which in my eyes was the majority of Survivors because the majority of survivors don't use DH with a plan, they just panick and DH, which led to killers not hitting or hitting but not counting cause it had invulnerability.
Instead BHVR went for full 3rd health state and screw Distance.
We never tested "Old" DH vs killer buffs. We never tested No Invulnerability DH vs No killer Buff and we didn't test No Invulnerability DH vs Killer Buffs.
Who knows, maybe DH not giving a 3rd health state would still make the perk valuable for good survivor players who plan to use DH in a specific scenario and it wouldn't hurt killers who get No Hits when survivors just Panicked E when they screwed up.
Regarding Camping and Tunneling, it's just the way to play if you simply only care about wins. Pulling off 12 hook games is not easy or consistant. It's why TrU3Ta1ent of all people stopped striving for that.
You can't even pull off 12 hooks at low MMR because survivors give up easily, they'll DC or suicide early so imagine in higher MMR where people played in such a mechanical way that it would be impossible for most killers and most killer players to generate enough pressure to have time to get 12 hooks. Even if you get BP for the people that DC you're still missing BP for Hits and Chase length, you're still leaving pallets up to be used by someone else, you're hurting your Emblems and Progression.
The problem with killer buffs is that if you make killers feel nice to play as then you're also making them harder to play against, especially when they decide to get kills no matter how.
This is how Nurse is so problematic, she needs to be killswitched until she's revised. Buffing killers = buffs Nurse AND Nerfing survivors = Buffs killer = Buff Nurse. Nurse essentially got a double Buff.
I'm not a Nurse player, her constant gasping sounds annoy the hell out of me, but if i was one i'd be in DbD Heaven right now, i'd play every second i could cause right now she's possibly the strongest she has ever been or as close to the strongest she has been previously.
Regardless of what you do to killers, Camping and Tunneling will always exist and will always be the best option for Winning matches.
I strive to not tunnel or camp because i want to chase people, i want to create the scenario where i'm strong to chase anyone and everyone, i want to win and i want it to be my way, it's a me thing i get it and the game is not made for me and as such it's not always possible for me to win and to win in the way i wanna win but for me tunneling and camping is either a choice made by lack of valuable information, idk where the other survivors are and what they are doing cause i didn't bring info perks or i missed the info, or cause i desperatly need someone out of the game so i can have a chance at winning so i'll go for whoever i know is on death hook. Tunneling is NOT my default mode.
And the reason Tunneling and Camping becomes a Default mode for so manny players is because they don't want to deal with the struggle that is trying to play the game without tunneling or Camping. BHVR made an effort to make the game more enjoyable to play for killers and succeeded at it but the side effect of that is that there's more people playing killer who aren't that good at killer so they still need to Camp and Tunnel cause that's the easiest way to play. And most of those people were victims of Camping and Tunneling so they know the startegy works, so they will definetly employ it whenever possible. So in the end those who suffered from it will employ it cause they will realise they can't win without it.
Humans will always look for the easy method and the easiest thing for a killer is to tunnel and camp. Chasing is hard cause you need to understand Maps, tiles, chase Perks, etc. IT's the same thought process for Survivors who just pre-throw pallets and shift W to the next. They don't loop, they don't do interactive chases, they just want to get away and be as hard to hit as possible, so they put down the pallet, run to the next and so on. Killers either break the pallets which still wastes time or they go around which still wastes time.
Like i said, people will always do the easiest thing. Shift W and Camping/Tunneling.
Want another example? People hate skillchecks. It's why Old Ruin was so valuable and used, Most survivors would fail skillchecks thus their progess was getting reversed but in addition they were affecting the other survivors aswell, slowding them down because they screwed up. What did BHVR do? Remove the skillcheck part of Ruin and allowed any scrubb to do gens freely which was good for good survivors but was even better for bad survivors, now they don't have to worry about good skillchecks or missing skillchecks, the penalty is much much lower.
I will even concede to the counter argument of Console framerates being bad and affecting skillchecks which made Old Ruin very strong. I'll concede to Consoles getting shaffted, i am originally a PS4 player so i know that experience. BUT when there wasn't lag or framerate issues, mainly before Dedicated Servers, skillchecks weren't such an issue thus Old Ruin wasn't such a big deal to good players. PLUS Ruin is a Hex Totem, survivors spawn on them so much that it was almost miraculous that Ruin ever got so much value that it needed such a heavy rework.
It was reworked with the lowest skill level in mind, like so manny other changes...
To close off my argument, i think the Update did manny things right but as usual BHVR's lack of foresight and proper Testing made for some side effects that could easily be fixed before launch and should be fixed by the next update.
Regarding Camping and Tunneling, it's just the way to play if you simply only care about wins. Pulling off 12 hook games is not easy or consistant. It's why TrU3Ta1ent of all people stopped striving for that.
The reason why tru3ta1ent stop going for hooks is because every time he went for hooks, he lost. this classic psychology. B.F skinner, negative reinforcement, positive reinforcement.
if every time the killer tries to go arbitrary race for going 3 hook win condition but does not tunnel and camp a survivor to do so and loses. The killer is getting negative reinforcement to stop going for hooks because every time he tries, he loses.
When tru3ta1ent camp and tunnels, he wins games. This gives him positive reinforcement to keep tunneling and to keep camping because every time he does it, he wins. this is why everyone that players killer camps and tunnels because not playing this way makes you lose as killer.
what tru3 realized when playing survivor is that getting camped into 1 hook and getting tunnel out of the game is unfun for the survivor because it removes component of skill from the survivor because they only get 1 chase.
this is why survivor use dead hard, decisive strike and borrow time. it is to increase their fun factor because getting unhooked and immediantly getting downed without a chase from being out of position from unhook removes chase component from the game. OTR does what all 3 of these perk do. it grants 80 seconds of dead hard, BT and it resets position of the survivor from the hook(which is what decisive strike did at 5 seconds of stun).
since tru3 realized that this is unfun for survivor, he was trying figure out how to make killers not play this way because he realizes a problem with the killer which is that default win conditions for killer are too ineffective compare to survivor objective(which is doing all 5 generators and escaping through gate).
so he had numerous idea's to reward killer:
His first idea was to give survivors negative debuffs when a survivor is freshly hooked.
This is perk... the perk is called dying light. The problem? It only gives 3% action speed debuff per hook. that is not enough. you will still lose for try to go for 12 hooks with this perk. the perk also has really stupid negatives of giving botany knowledge for free on obsession and the obesssion is completely immune to action debuffs.
a problem with this idea is that its win-more perk because if you were buff dying light, you'd have this problem where the perk does too little too late because by the time you get a relevant amount of stacks, you'd already be at 1 generator where the perk has least power. If you buff to the point that you gain enough slowdown to win, you'd virtually make it impossible for survivor to win after x amount of hooks.
for example if it was 10% per hook(with no stupid negatives like botany for free and immunity on obsession), after 6 hooks, you might as well just surrender as survivor because next 6 hooks are basically given especially if there multiple generators.
the more contemporary approach these perks are thanotophobia and Scourage hook; Gift of pain. First I'm just going to say gift of pain is trash perk still so we get this out the way. the negative repair penalty doesn't work when injured and triggering the perk with 4 scourge hook makes the perk random rng.
now regarding thano, when you hook survivor, you gain some slowdown from thano because the person on the hook is injured. The main problem is that you never really big thresholds with the perk because the survivors can control the perk and if you give killer the ability to keep survivors injured, than survivors have to be very comfortable playing injured entire game which gives all killers exposed.
his second idea was base-kit ruin that cannot be cleansed.
problem with this idea is.... 3 generators.... with such strong regression perk as base-kit. you can just camp 3 gens and the close proximity on 3 generators means that survivor doesn't really get chases around the map. so the killer can effective hold the game hostage and you might as just suicide as survivor.
assuming regression is high enough and generators are close enough. you won't be able to progress the game.
his last idea is scourge hook: pain resonance on every hook base-kit.
I mean this is good idea except for the fact that dev will probably never give that as a perk to the killer. the perk does not stop tunneling though but it does de-incentive camping. so they might need to make decisive strike+off the record base-kit for survivor if this perk base-kit for killer.
all of his idea were within the mind to make survivor experience more fun for the survivor while making it more realistically for killer to win without needing to tunnel/camp/slug.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3098689#Comment_3098689
Correct. This gameplay is boring for both sides. It literally is, maximize distance by running in the opposite direction. Run to a pallet, and drop the pallet before any mindgame can even take place forcing the killer to break it in order to continue on. When survivors actually do generators, the amount of time it takes to catch up to a survivor after breaking a pallet is insane even with the buffs that you lose so much momentum. The game basically doesn't become tolerable until a survivor is on a hook, in which case now the game is (1 survivor on hook, 1 saving, 1 in chase, and 1 on gen)
This is leading to the response of the killer meta being, camping and tunneling. It is better to just camp someone out and bank on the survivors getting overly altruistic because you are playing in a scummy way and taking advantage of that. if they don't get altruistic at least you can usually secure 2 kills.
Screencap this post, the killer meta will soon be playing a killer that can injure quickly like legion or plague with thana, injure the whole team, down someone, and camp.
yeah, you know what is funny? people complain about it as survivor. that is the hilarious part. Killer would be like 100% pallet break to counter this, 10% pallet break is like a drop in the water. You only lose like 1 meter of distance compare to before. The killer would need to be breaking pallets at leatherface levels of speed to counter this.
in term of hold-w pre-chase. its a lot weaker now because they nerfed spine chill, a perk that exaggerates this gameplay especially for solo although dev don't know why spine chill is used so there is that. It reminds of that old Objection of Obsession comment, "Not a terribly effective perk".
You can technically counter holding before the chase through undetectable but not many killers have access to undetectable and those that do are often among weakest in the chase.
in term of health-states, the old amount of time was 24 seconds. now its 20 seconds. 20 seconds is a lot of time to get to another pallet. so chaining pallets is barely any different but at least now, the killer is better at capitalizing on deadzones for pallets. Only killer with an instant gap-close in the chase or base-kit instant down can do anything against health-states.
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there is only one killer in the game that has access to both an instant down and undetectable and there is no killer that has access to instant downs, undetectable and has strong chase power. so holding-w will always be effective strategy.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3098989#Comment_3098989
Balanced is only bad on the 1-2 maps that don't have drops. Overcome can be used while injured if you have Endurance somehow.
i believe this was weakened for overcome. it used to work with endurance effects, but i think this was weakened from PTB. it only works on health-states, its hard-counter to sbtfl. Unless this change was reverted and i am not aware of it. I do not think it works.
Spint burst from health-states is still too strong such that you do not really need overcome for looping. so the perk is still not that great. the perk might become more relevant if killer receives a perk that weakens sprint burst of health-states.
the harvester is still death sentence if the killer knows harvest drop-off technique. you just drop down and swing directly off platform if survivor vaults right. and hills are still unreliable. BL as a whole is still situational.
I still use dead hard, but I'm glad that nobody uses it as surviror. nobody figured how to use it while i just get second chances every chase even against m1 killers. the only thing that sucks about it is that it doesn't work with off the record. I wish dead hard worked like mettle of man and granted super endurance unaffected by deep wound. it sucks that you can't use the perk in half the chases because of endurance stacking change.
I also understand now thanks to new dead hard why dissolution is a perk. it makes sense now. Still don't think killer are going to use dissolution to counter new dead hard. too little duration. it would be good perk to counter new dh if it had unlimited duration and it worked on next pallet break. Luckily nobody figured out how to use new DH so that just makes my games as killer really easy.
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@ByeByeQ said:
in my opinion, DBD is not rng based. it never was. all pallets that spawn are normally always static placements and all tileset location are generally static. Sometimes filler pallets have very slight differences in position but these are very easy to account for as survivor in most cases.
I disagree. DbD has always been RNG-based, as long as I can remember and I've been playing since 2018. Without a map offering we are always playing map roulette. Tile roulette still exists on most maps. You can be sent to Shelter Woods which is a very killer-sided map, but have 3 of the new user-generated tiles spawn which are the the long C-wall with a window in the middle paired with a strong pallet and walk away from the match with only 2 hooks. Every time a killer swings at a survivor vaulting a window we play ping roulette to see if the hit lands.
if you ask me, i think that having such long-walls on all the pallets is super unhealthy from game design perceptive because it makes every killer feel like they need an incredible game-breaking power in the chase otherwise, the killer will feel like half of their chase gameplay is entirely meaningless from safe pallet design. It proves to be a difficult challenge to make unique killer powers that feel different, fresh(like old freddy). you can try plaster-fix on m1 killers by creating perks that increase lunge velocity and perks like coup the grace that increase lunge distance by a lot(since walls are very long) but it goes back to perks fixing basic-kit gameplay design.
I agree that long walls in loops are not particularly fun, especially on loops where there is almost no mind game potential. And many tiles and loops exist where that is the case.
So when your entire post is talking about map rng and rotation of tiles, its mainly removed because of DBD developer incompetent and misunderstanding of the entire problem that players were complaining about.
I think laziness and them putting DbD on the back burner while they work on other projects are to blame here too. Making it so using certain offerings guarantee you get sent to certain maps is horrible too, a killer's game can be ruined on the offering screen.
They have never made a good, balanced Map
I like the Yamaoka and Crotus Prenn maps, among others. There are some good maps in the game where both sides have a decent chance to win that could be used as models/templates for good map designs.
I mainly made the post because whenever I go to Dead Dawg, Midwich, Haddonfield, RPD, Eyrie of Crows or Garden of Joy I pretty much know exactly what the map layout is without having to explore. It's boring and repetitive gameplay.
I mainly made the post because whenever I go to Dead Dawg, Midwich, Haddonfield, RPD, Eyrie of Crows or Garden of Joy I pretty much know exactly what the map layout is without having to explore. It's boring and repetitive gameplay.
well yeah because of what i said earlier, people complaining about rng so now the maps are static to not have rng. now your asking maps to have more rng.
DbD has always been RNG-based
well I disagree. looking at recent maps they're pretty static and frankly old maps did not have that much rng either. they were pretty static as well. only rng you had was loop-tile set, but in modern dbd, you do not even see 4 wall loops that much anymore. the macMillion Estate maps having diverse loop tileset was just something added recently to the map, so shelter woods just changed to be more rng based.
I agree that long walls in loops are not particularly fun, especially on loops where there is almost no mind game potential. And many tiles and loops exist where that is the case.
dbd always heir on the side of strong killer power vs strong loop design. old dbd is like billy using strong add-ons to curve on a farm map. that is dbd at its finest. so strong powers are much better mitigate rng for killer rather than making all the maps weak and making killer powers dull to use. just my opinion though. doesn't mean that it is right.
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@ByeByeQ said:
I believe so.
Many of the oldest maps in DbD feature rotation of their main buildings and shacks which provides a much more varied gameplay in their procedural generations. In addition, they featured better variations on certain loop generations. (eg: If this window is closed than that window is open and vice versa.) These maps generally don't feature any really nasty uncounterable loops (at least not anymore). I like almost all of these maps, the maps made before Dead Dawg Saloon and breakable walls were introduced.
Did BHVR lose or put on other projects their good map makers around 2 years ago? It seems like it. It was at about the beginning of 2020 they transitioned from getting maps that maybe did look so good but played well, to maps that look amazing but play awful.
The first offender is Dead Dawg Saloon. I actually don't mind this map, but it is just so static. The saloon, shack and gallows and the building beside the shack always face the same way, and the tiles that generate across the street always generate facing the same way. Every time I go to Dead Dawg I know almost exactly what to expect and certain walls have to be broken at the start of the match it you spawn close to them. At least this map doesn't have any super-strong uncounterable loops like later offenders and is about the right size. Dead Dawg is also the only map that makes half-decent use of breakable walls.
Midwich is another map I like for the most part, but again it has almost no variation in its generations. Many low mobility killers have a hard time on Midwich while it is easily the Nurse's best map. I still think this map has its place in DbD in its current form. It would be nice to have more pallet spawn locations so we'd see loops where the pallet could spawn here or here rather than always in the same spots (and so fake pallet Freddy could use his power before pallets actually get broken). I'd also love to see the Entity make some of the walls unblinkable through as the Nurse. It could also have more different room generations.
After this the rest of the maps seem to get much more advantageous for survivors.
The Game's rework actually has a decent amount of procedural variation on the bottom floor at least but it features far too many safe loops that aren't difficult to string together to near-endlessly. It also features that really weird and strongest T & L wall variation in the game for no good reason. If this map just had a few lest god loops it would be fine, imo.
RPD... now we're getting to the worst of the worst offenders, I don't think this map has an procedural variation at all and is the perfect example of looking good while playing awful. I won't go into detail as to why it is bad. I will just say this is my least favorite map to play on both as survivor and as any killer on the roster.
Eyrie of Crows is a really cool map... aesthetically. I mean it looks really cool I'll give you that, nice work. But the main building always faces the same direction, why? It has a square footprint so why not make it so it can face 4 directions? It also lacks variation on where pallets and windows generate, it could really use more window "slots" and make some of those generation pairs where a window spawns here or there. At least the Shack does rotate. What makes this map harsh to play on is it is huge and features too many safe pallet loops using tall obstacles which also for the most part are in fixed locations. Eyrie of Crows always seems to be the same map with the only variations being the direction of the shack and which tiles generate in the 3 tiles slots. It also feature those small bush-like objects with absolutely horrible collision.
The Haddonfield rework is awful too, I think they might have actually made it worse. Old Haddonfield had 3 building slots where the 3 different buildings would generate so playing on the map didn't feel so repetitive game after game. New Haddonfield the only variation is where the House of Pain generates and the other slot gets filled with an empty yellow building. All of the buildings always generate with the same windows when it could really use some of the window pairings used in older maps where if one window is open the other window slot is closed. Haddonfield's buildings feature many annoying windows where the killer has no way around. The second floors of the buildings are too closed-in in general with not enough exits. At least old Haddonfield second floors always offered a way out the front and the back, even if the Trapper could place undisarmable traps at those windows.
The Garden of Misery, er, Joy. This map is only slightly better than RPD, imo since at least I can avoid the main building. The main building always faces the same direction, but it's a very uniquely shaped building. The shack and the corner pallet+window loop always face the same direction, which seems to be an oversight for these square structures. The rest of the map is varied enough, but this map has many other problems. The map is covered in far too many of those large bushes with horrible collision that devour M1 attacks, chainsaw sweeps, frenzy attacks and other things and make chasing survivors on most loops just not enjoyable. The tiles on this map are just weird. The edges of the map are ill-defined. The main building is the worst building in the game. It's too dark inside for no good reason. There is nothing inside the building to loop aside from one weak pallet. It features at least 2 good "escape" windows where if the survivor jump out the window they will certainly make enough distance to get to another loop and the god window next to the god-like pallet. This building is so bad that if I am given the choice between chasing a survivor into that house or camping/tunneling someone else, I will choose to camp/tunnel. I hate that building so much, it sucks the life out of me. It also features the most pointless breakable wall in the game.
(TL;DR:) In summary, I hope to see more of the old tricks used again. More buildings and tiles that rotate. More of the window pairings where there are 2 or more window "slots" but in only one of those slots is the window open. More tiles or loops where the pallet can spawn in more than one location. Less obstacles with horrible hit boxes.
a lot of players tended to complain that dead by daylight had too much rng on maps. that your rng on the map dictated how the match went.
they did not forgot how to make maps. in fact I think all of their maps are of the highest quality in appearance and gameplay. They just removed rng in making maps because players asked to remove rng of making maps.
in my opinion, DBD is not rng based. it never was. all pallets that spawn are normally always static placements and all tileset location are generally static. Sometimes filler pallets have very slight differences in position but these are very easy to account for as survivor in most cases.
What people were really talking about in regard rng is safe loop design tiles vs unsafe loop design tiles.
for example if a map has 6 tile set locations. If all these locations spawn classic jungle gym tiles, you essentially get 6 safe god pallets extra on the map, basically you get 6 additional shack pallets on the map. Likewise, if you get 6 T-L walls, you lose 6 safe god pallets on the map. This used also be mixed with four-wall loop which contains unsafe pallet and even less strong window, so some maps used to spawn like 3 T-L walls and 3 four walls
so when survivor talk about map rng, they're essentially complaining why their map doesn't have 6 jungle gym shacks and long-wall short wall pallets to auto-pilot loop the killer.
when killer talk about map design, they're essentially complaining why the map is not filled with mindgamable loops like T-L wall & four walls which survivor mains will coin as auto-pilot auto win loops for killer(from bloodlust).
For some reason, they thought that rng complained was related to rotate map buildings. I don't know why, but it is what it is. If you go to talk about this whole concept of loop money, that whole concept is entirely wrong with how DBD works.
if you ask me, i think that having such long-walls on all the pallets is super unhealthy from game design perceptive because it makes every killer feel like they need an incredible game-breaking power in the chase otherwise, the killer will feel like half of their chase gameplay is entirely meaningless from safe pallet design. It proves to be a difficult challenge to make unique killer powers that feel different, fresh(like old freddy). you can try plaster-fix on m1 killers by creating perks that increase lunge velocity and perks like coup the grace that increase lunge distance by a lot(since walls are very long) but it goes back to perks fixing basic-kit gameplay design.
at the same time, you get opposite problem with survivor complaining that deathslinger or spirit is uncounterable because they got an entire map full of 4 wall and T-L spawns on killer powers that were designed for more powerful loop design.
So in the end, you either make killer powers extremely powerful with entire map being completely godlike in strength or you make every killer power as watered down as possible with every pallet and window being no stronger than midwich elementary school. Currently you have neither.
So when your entire post is talking about map rng and rotation of tiles, its mainly removed because of DBD developer incompetent and misunderstanding of the entire problem that players were complaining about.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
imo its an insanely useful perk as is.
most survivors will be within your aura reading range unless you're on opposite sides of the map, in which case it would be a waste of time for them to traverse the map to get your heals. and tbh, for the value this perk provides, its worth running Open-Handed
i posted this in another thread:
all information perks bridge soloq and swf.
this is another one of those perks that would really help soloq if it was base-kit so they could stop trying to balance soloq and swf and just focus on it as -survivor-.
although 10% healing buff should not be base-kit. i could see this perk being buffed to like 50% healing speed similar to botany if any form of aura reading was given to survivor base-kit.
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@Seraphor said:
On the other hand cages can't be camped, so 5s of BT isn't going to do anything.
they can be camped. that is why pyramid head use range add-ons, so that when a survivor is unhooked, you can hit them as they drop from the cage leading the unhook person to take damage and the person who is unhooked instantly down. PH is pretty strong, you often only get 1 proper chase against him and the rest is all that cage into death hook gameplay...(camping)
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3095544#Comment_3095544
Well SBMM for kills is a big issue that caused this as it's easy to manipulate kills over hooks so it makes balancing an issue.
I still get use from DS, but I'd much rather the suggestion I made earlier in this post to someone about a whole DS rework
i mean killers don't get rewarded for isolated hooks. they only get rewarded if they score 3 hooks on same survivor hence why tunneling will always be prominent in the game.
if they changed the system to be based off number of hook across entire team, than killers would hook anyone. Like for example, if entire team has 12 hooks and every 4 hooks, a killer kills someone on their 4th hook.
I mean devour hope is like that. you get 5 hooks and 6th hook becomes a mori as does 7th, 8th and 9th hook become a mori. i mean they did say they want rework mori's at one point in last years anniversary stream though it seems that they've decided to make mori's only for end game last kill. i think they talked about as something called the finisher mori, something like that.
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@Remedicist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3094974#Comment_3094974
I think this would be a good new Scourge Hook perk. I'd rather keep NOED specifically an endgame perk and have the haste Scourge Hook be a new perk; However, I agree that your idea still fits the theme of no one escaping death as well.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3095072#Comment_3095072
NOED in its current state is given, yes, but I think that should change. A killer being rewarded with an effectively strong, powerful effect that affects every single survivor just for losing is not very fair. You could argue that it gives the killer a second chance, but I don't think that is a fun or fair gameplay mechanic to have in the game. On the survivor side, finishing all your objectives just to be punished for doing so with a one-hit down that had no incoming warning is not fun or fair.
This is why I think NOED should work like NWO and Remember Me: being rewarded with an endgame effect for doing your objective in the early and mid game. Yes, I know there are other perks like NOED that give the killer a power boost when losing an objective such as Deadlock, Rancor, and Coup de Grace as you had named some yourself. However, as I stated before, I think NOED has too much of a powerful effect for a comeback perk compared to the other comeback perks that simply give you a slight boost. This is why I'd rather change it to a rewarded endgame perk.
However, this is just my opinion. I also really like your idea of making the current NOED more easy to counter by doing 3-4 bones instead of all 5. This would give reason to do some bones here and there throughout the match without feeling like you are throwing the game for focusing on all 5 totems like in the current state of NOED. All in all, your idea is awesome too!
i agree with sentiment that granting instant downs and haste together is powerful effect but the effect needs to be powerful for killer to consider using it. considering that other perks are not really used that much, it means those perk do not live up to their reward. 60 seconds of exposed is just make your choice and make your choice is not scourge hook perk and it works all game.
I'd say noed is good hex perk because it does not follow normal hex perks. It has old undying effect build into it. you have to cleanse all 5 totems to prevent its activation. its large reason to why the other hex perks are not very good. they have too little lifespan in most cases. the only hex perk that was used was hex:ruin and that's because with hex:ruin, it had lose-lose type effect build into it which was that you have cleanse ruin to prevent its value, but by looking for the totem, you are wasting time not doing generators so ruin is "regressing" for free by survivors looking for the totem. that is why hex:ruin was good. now ruin is bad because rewards aren't there. Its sort of the same idea with noed.
hex perk in general aren't very good unless they provide lose-lose effect for the survivor. the survivor have to feel the need to cleanse and the effect of the totem active needs to make them want to cleanse it. old ruin and pre-weaken ruin was exactly that and NOED is exactly that. Hex:Undying reinforces that lose-lose dynamic for the survivor assuming the hex is actually worth using in the first place.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3095072#Comment_3095072
Sir what im proposing is a buff.
yeah i am responding to you because it changes the perk theme. NOED is suppose to be end game and I responding to OP post for the rest of the post that his perk gives bad rewards in end game.
I do like your perk idea, I think it should be new scourage hook perk.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3095019#Comment_3095019
Yeah i was being conservative. Should be fine at 1 minute. Honestly this plus play with your food or something is probably too much.
it changes theme of the perk.
the theme of NOED is that its suppose to be comeback perk for killer.
I.e your suppose get rewarded(empowered) as the killer for losing the objective.
since killers will inevitably lose all 5 generators in some games, the perk in practice can activate every game. It can also not activate, but if it does not activate, it just means your so outstanding as killer that you won the game with 3 perks.
you can argue that rewards for killing losing give too much reward, however keep in mind that that there are other perks that reward the killer for losing all 5 generators(e.g coup the grace, fire up, rancor, bitter mumur, cruel limits etc.) and they are not used very much. so lower rewarding just makes the perk garbage for comeback mechanic. bad version of blood warden?
NOED is not suppose to be earned, it is suppose given. I think if your going weaken the perk, its probably better to make it easier to counter. for example current noed is like old undying where you need cleanse all 5 dull totems, similar to how old undying bounced to all 4 totems. maybe instead needing to cleanse all 5 totems, you only 3-4 dull totems. so Noed only activates if more then 2 or more dull totems are left standing.
so now survivor can more realistically counter the perk by preventing the perk from activating.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3095003#Comment_3095003
You're not "throwing away" a hook state, you're intentionally trading it off for faster time getting into a new chase against a more desirable target. Not all hook states are equal, getting a second or third hook state on a single survivor is worth way more than getting one hook each on two or three different survivors.
And yes, the goal is to "tunnel" someone out of the game. But it's a way to do it that actually maintains pressure on the other survivors to stay off the gens in the process, plus gives you the opportunity to possibly get two hooks on a second survivor if the circumstances permit.
oh your like old me. wonderful
you definitely are throw away hook-states. its because the killer's time is 4x more valuable than survivor's time. the extra chases you take is time that survivor team can use to do generators. the only time they waste is for slug is going to pick up the slug. bleed timer are so long that you're very unlikely to die to them. the time it takes for a survivor to pick a survivor up is very little in comparison to the time it takes for the killer to down a survivor especially if the survivor is skilled at the chase.
it only takes somewhere between 5-15 seconds to hook a survivor and by pushing more survivors into their death hook, they're more likely to play passive and you have more chances to find death hook survivors the more survivors on the team are on death hook. I can go off-topic and talk about why spine chill was 20% pick-rate perk at higher mmr in charts & stealth is powerful and why BBQ aura reading is powerful in relationship to this but we'll skip details to this.
going back to the topic, you can instead of wasting time on individual chases just return directly to the hook and chase the unhooked survivor. Technically this used to be more punishing because of decisive strike, but decisive strike has received some negatives that makes less damaging for killers to tunnel survivors off hooks. You'll still have to deal with OTR though.
What I'm saying is that you'd kill survivors way quicker if you were more direct and skipped slugging time sink. although be aware that many killers are not that strong in 1vs1 unless they're high-tier/strong.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3094831#Comment_3094831
I never facecamp hooks, it's a pretty inefficient use of time for the most part. I do slug though to keep only one survivor on a gen at a time at most. Like I said, the trick is hooking one or two people out. The object of slugging the other survivors isn't to force them to bleed out, it's to keep them off the gens while you focus on the main targets you actually want to hook three times. If someone does happen to bleed out so be it but that's not the actual reason to do it.
I don't see real point. your commit chase time to slug people just to not hook them? then commit to other chases on survivor that your looking to kill in which are your hooking. that just sounds like really slow and indirect way to tunnel people out of the game.
The only way reason I can see you doing this is to avoid decisive strike. I can totally see this on pre-nerf decisive strike and I'm not talking about latest change decisive strike, I'm talking about the decisive strike before the many conditions were put to disable decisive strike.
I can completely understand where this post is coming from because I used to do what your describing a long time ago as killer, but in my new post-mmr experience, that strategy is not really that effective. It often just leads you to throw away hook-states.
that's why I think slugging is just extension to camping. proxy camping slug and face-camp hooks. mindlessly slugging by itself just is not really that strong of a strategy in my opinion. its simply not rewarding and as result, the perks that empower slugging(on killer side) and the perks that weaken it on survivor side are pretty much pointless in their current iteration of the game.
that's also why for example, when they changed boil over, people complained about the perk because the perk encourage slugging because it prevents you from getting to the hook and that's largely because getting slugged as survivor is rewarding. Not punishing. There is no penalities for picking another survivor up and your unlikely to die through bleed out. you just save hook-states if you can force killer to slug excluding the hook camp+slugging technique described in my previous post.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3094752#Comment_3094752
Well you do get punished as a survivor if you get slugged, just potentially not as much as if you get hooked. Slugging is basically a tradeoff between not securing a hook state in order to save yourself about 10 seconds of time getting into a new chase. If you slug too much and you're not careful you can end up losing since survivors can revive each other pretty quickly when you're not nearby and still be working on gens potentially same as when someone is hooked. And in fact because it takes 4 minutes to time out as a slugged survivor versus 2 minutes as a hooked survivor you might potentially be giving survivors more total time to do gens unless you're cashing in some of those down as hooks.
That's why my preferred strategy is to hook one or two survivors and slug the others. It focuses my carrying time on only one or two targets to help eliminate them more quickly while still giving me extra time to get into new chases after downs. I hardly ever bother trying to do a full four person slug for the win since it can be kind of risky and backfire pretty easily. But, hey, if a killer can manage to do it more power to them!
well yeah the way to utilizing slugging currently is to hook a survivor and than slug another survivor. that's what I do.
The way I do it is I find a survivor, slug them, finding another survivor. if the first survivor is still slugged, you can pick up either previous or current survivor downed, hook them then bring other survivor to the hook and camp them.
now your camping a slugged survivor and a survivor is hooked. if your a killer that excels at camping & slugging, you can consistently trade a survivor that is unhooked and also re-slug survivors that are under the hook. for example twins can re-slug people with victor and can prevent unhooks with incapacitated status effect. huntress can re-slug survivors easily with her hatchets and she has excellent hook defense because of her m2->m1 combo hook trade and many other killer can excel at this gameplay
I think recently, maybe like 5-6 months ago, they nerfed slugging. previously, if you drop a survivor, the hook progress used to regress when a survivor was on the floor. now it does not regress. so once you drop a survivor, you can't pick them up. they'll wiggle off. still slugging in this form is very effective as it reduces the survivor's generator efficiency by 200%(50% of total team).
The other way to utilize slugging is to slug all 4 survivors. this will not happen against competent teams in most cases unless your killer is extremely powerful at the chase(I.E nurse). 4 man slugging not very common and incredibly difficult to achieve consistently without nurse. The more common gameplay when it comes to slugging and 1 hooking is to camp->tunnel a single survivor out of the game so that only 3 survivor remain, then to slug 2 survivors leaving a single alive. If you can locate last survivor while both survivors are on the floor, you can 1 hook last 3 survivors.
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Slugging is basically a tradeoff between not securing a hook state in order to save yourself about 10 seconds of time getting into a new chase.
Slugging without camping hooks is currently rewarding for survivor. you are rarely ever in danger as survivor from bleeding out. Your team really has to mess up for you to get bleed out as survivor. its also why a perk like knock out and third seal is not really globally used by many killers. The blindness itself is completely ineffective against 4 man swf and only really works against solo players. 4 man slugging is even less likely to occur. your team really has to mess up for that to happen with 4 survivors alive. Its more likely with 3 but you still need make mistakes as survivor to get into that position.
This is why you do not really see slugging that much on killer side. its not very rewarding. I think this is the reason why Twins that supposedly only excels at the gameplay is not played that much. it's difficult to play for most players and its not particularly too rewarding even if your good at it(although dev say that twins are monsters apparently).
@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3094752#Comment_3094752
Unbreakable with Soul Guard only works once when not hexed, and hex totems generally don't stay up for Soul Guard to work more than once. And again, I was LAST survivor after my teammates were all bled out, hatch was closed, the only thing using those perks would've done was slightly prolonged my time in match before the killer downed me again and continued slugging me until just before bleed out.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3094776#Comment_3094776
The point of no gens were done is that he won so slugging everyone until bleed out was not necessary for his win or to put on pressure. He could've just hooked everyone instead of bleeding them out for 4 minutes. He could've immediately hooked me as last survivor instead of standing over me waiting for me to almost bleed out before finally hooking me. Knock Out making it so a killer can slug all 4 survivors at once because they can't find eachother and the killer just bleeds them out for 4 minutes should not be a thing.
well being bleed out counts as getting killed, so the killer can choose to kill you this way. some survivors see it as being toxic, i usually just see as total waste of time. just take loss and move on.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3094680#Comment_3094680
Unbreakable wouldn't have helped. He was standing over me as he slugged me. Even if I ran Unbreakable he would've immediately downed me and continued slugging me for the 3 minutes 59 seconds.
the perk your looking for is soulguard, soulguard gives you an endurence effect whenever you are picked up on the floor. unbreakable+soulguard can counter that situation, alternatively, looping better to prevent being slugged requires no perks.
@dugman said:
There's nothing wrong with slugging. In fact if anything I'm always surprised when someone complains about being slugged because at least when you're slugged you can move around and try and get to a better position, and if a survivor comes in for a rescue then as long as you've healed yourself as much as possible they can instant tap you to get you off the ground. And unlike hooks if you get downed and get back up the killer hasn't directly gotten much closer to killing you.
that last part is somewhat problematic. your making errors as survivor and yet your not get punished because its very unlikely that the killer will deplete all 4 minutes of slug out timer. survivors can pick themselves up infinitive amount of times with little no drawback which it is not as common for a killer to slug as it is for a killer to camp and tunnel hook-states. Its also why Twins tends not be played very much as killer because she is so inefficient at hooking and slugging is not very effective as strategy overall. I feel like survivors should get punished for being slugged and pick-up off the floor by losing 25% of their death timer since currently survivors rarely ever threatened by slugging as a whole and rarely consider the anti-slugging perks.
I think the fact that every trial for survivor comes with expectation of camping and tunneling hooks is part of reason why the game feels stale because there is lack of dynamic win conditions. if slugging was prominent(i.e the killer would get rewarded for slugging), there would be more dynamic trials and we might see more dynamic perks used on the survivor side and perhaps more dynamic perks used on killer side to reinforce a particular play-style.
Maybe certain perks like No mither could use rework/buff so it isn't just complete meme perk.
basically slugging is somewhat is unexplored in dbd and exploring it might lead to fresh new gameplay experiences.
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kill switch is for game-breaking bugs.
if the perk receives a large popularity and is used over all other the perks by significant margin than you might see a perk change whenever the next meta-shake up patch occurs. Till than, you'll have to learn how to play against it rather then whine about it.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092350#Comment_3092350
On a total tangent I wish Coup de Grace was just "Increase your lunge distance by +x%" with no restrictions or tokens or whatever. I'd gladly use that perk even with a smaller increase than it currently has if it was just something that was on all the time.
haha me too, but i think making smaller makes not too effective. rip that perk.
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@notJustDante said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092585#Comment_3092585
sure, but I am saying that people running individual regression perks such as.... surge(jolt)+eruption+pain resonance+pop would add more on each individual perk. I do not think that improving gen regression by situational amount is the reason to run the perk. its mostly passive pressure perk that the survivor have a lot of control over.
I'm just saying that Thana has that extra benefit of increasing the efficiency of regression perks. It's not the reason why you should run it.
by healing meta, you mean second chance meta? healing is part of getting second chance so the killer making healing as difficult is time efficient for the killer. is slowing down healing is now unfair? I mean there are... healing perks to mitigate effectiveness.
I never said it is unfair. The only killer that you could argue that would be unfair to have perks that slowdown/prevent survivors from healing is Nurse. And by "healing meta" I'm talking about medkits, COH... What I said is: In the past, when that type of anti-heal build existed, it was boring, and bringing that back would be more balanced or at least less boring since survivors are focusing a lot on this healing meta, but having something like that is not the correct way to address that healing meta, and if one day that healing meta was gone then it would be just boring again.
Either way, it would not solve the problem that Thanatophobia has, which is not adding any gameplay elements to the game.
it would not solve the problem that Thanatophobia has, which is not adding any gameplay elements to the game.
I mean perks are meant to empower the killer to kill survivors or impair survivor from escaping. its cool if a perk adds another dimension to the game like boon perks, but most perks do not add dimensions to the game.
I had to correct myself on original post, its not 15 seconds added. its 25 seconds added. my brain kept thinking 115 second gens is adding 15 seconds. my bad. still you really shouldn't be going to 4 stacks and repairing generators from 100->0 with it active at full force.