Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3135409#Comment_3135409
At the cost of furthering the objective on the survivor side. Longer matches benefit killer and that's why the patch added ten seconds to gens. Deep wounds, conspicuous actions, getting off gens to complete secondary objectives or procing a perk. All these extend matches. Time is on the side of killer, not solo queue.
those perks have downsides..... pain res require a hook. No way out requires multiple hooks to attain the minute of slowdown. Eruption and call of brine require the killer to go out of their way(secondary objective) to kick generators.
the only perk i agree with is deadlock but technically survivor can stack multiple people one generator with prove thyself and counter it as it will block a useless generator that was not being worked on.
dh has no downsides if the killer chases you and downs you.
OTR is 3 perks into one. Iron will, BT for 80 seconds and immunity to aura.
PT is 30% faster gens for playing survivor.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3135492#Comment_3135492
It didn’t have no counters though, it doesn’t show where exactly the survivor is since blood is slightly delayed.
one of main complaint of spirit was something called... the stand-still mindgame. With father glasses, you could stand at pallet in phase-walk and see the blood, then make a decision to go around pallet to hit survivor or stay on same slide.
Another problem with father glasses is that it counter's intended counter-play mechanic of spirit, specifically mother daughter ring.
when spirit phasewalks, she has 1.5 second activation where you have stand-still as spirit to activate phase ability, so the basic premise is that you keep running for 1.5 seconds as survivor, then you start walking because walking removes your scratch marks and eliminates the breathing of the survivor meaning that spirit has to guess in area around her when she makes it to destination where scratch marks last were.
Mother daughter ring is back-wards where spirit does not have scratch marks which means as survivor, you keep running until spirit you estimate that spirit is <12 meters near you then you begin to walk to eliminate your breathing. With father glasses, you can just go to destination where you last saw the scratch marks and look for blood pools which would give approximation for where the survivor is walking.
conclusively, they did not remove father glasses, they reworked and the add-on that it was reworked as is Dried cherry blossom. Note that spirits did not use Father glasses because most spirit prefer to use Stridor as Stridor was better version of Father glasses. while stridor did counter iron-will, it also has secondary passive where it makes the survivor's breathing louder and this allowed you to track the survivor's movement.
if you don't understand what i mean by breathing, go play like david king and listen to how david king sounds when he is running vs how he is walking. you will hear his hustling sound as he runs which better spirits will use to track you. note that a long time ago, these hustling sounds used to be audible in a chase, but at some point, they did this change where when a killer is in a chase, the survivor sounds just seem to be reduced & chase music is so loud that it drowns out these very important sounds. Old Iron will eliminated all these sounds making the survivor a complete ghost towards spirit. Luckily for spirit, you cannot see anyone in phase-walk so you can purposely drop the chase so that you can hear these sounds. its also large reason why iron will was a popular perk because the killer couldn't tell whether the survivor left the loop or stayed at the loop. no sounds and some killer players hated that. it makes you look really stupid as killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134391#Comment_3134391
When you get into stealth killers and whatnot, it becomes a map issue more than a communication issue. Ghostface actually has a high win rate in comp, but he's always played on Lerys. I'd never play Ghostface on Autohaven if given the choice, solo or SWF. But that's a lobby rework discussion. Totally different can of worms.
right.... his best map. i think your missing my point. I am saying that weaker killers are unlikely to be effective against strong teams. Like not to use otz's tier-list as like certified list but let's just say clown, freddy and legion. your argument is like saying that killers can only play on like 10% of the maps that are a bit more killer-favored. Like I recon that clown might do a better on lery than say rotten fields or badham.
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not sure. items in general for survivor are not exactly meant to be balanced. they're suppose be kinda imbalanced. its like how med-kit are not exactly a fair item.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134446#Comment_3134446
So if MMR is not fine, then it needs to be dealt with. The person i was responding to said "its fine because MMR means they only go against top killers" but they literally do not because MMR is not fine.
And don't give me "it's not a competitive game" that is the purpose of ranks and MMR. If it wasn't competitive then they should just match people with anyone because after all, "it's just a party game"
And my point is that there is a reason those games HAVE those tournaments with prize pools worth millions. Because they are actually fair for everyone. They are mostly balanced and have a competitive scene. Imagine if this game actually was balanced and BHVR held tournaments, it would easily take off, but they won't do it because the tournament scene shows how much of a joke the game balance is.
they won't do it because the tournament scene shows how much of a joke the game balance is.
well that is why its party game. a game could have competitive system for matchmaking but not be competitive. the purpose of competition is to prove that your better than another player. players go competitive in quest to seek fame and fortune. not really purpose for dbd. just my opinion.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134377#Comment_3134377
That's not true, MMR caps at 1900. Which is extremely low. If we equate that to the chess world (MMR for any online game is just a variation on Elo, the ranking system for chess) the top 100 chess players have a rating above 2650, and in most games where elo can't inflate (for example DotA 2 has inflation problems) the top of the top players generally hover around 2500-2600.
Those survivors are not always facing the best killers, they are facing 7-8/10 killers.
Additionally, matchmaking tries to not make you wait long. So you end up in matches where they are heavily skewed.
dbd is not a competitive game though despite having MMR. MMR is more for matchmaking purposes. Dota 2 is competitive game, it literally has tournaments that feature incredible price pools like $1.600,000. you also have to understand that the mmr number is not exact value for how good you are at the game. Like someone that has 1000 MMR vs 2000 MMR is not 2x better even though math suggests that. the MMR number is an order list. its suppose suggest worst player to the best player but dbd is not looking to make truly competitive system. The MMR number for DBD is more vague approximation for survivor and killer.
For example, you can have a killer that has 5000 MMR and he is number 1. If you set his MMR to 1900. He is still number 1. Its same for survivor. you can have a survivor that is 1500 MMR and let's say that is highest. He is still number 1. this is what i mean in regards to MMR being an ordered list of approximate skill-level. not the exact skill-level.
in order to make a system that captures the true nuances to see like an accurate rating with leaderboards, you need to host a tournament and participate with set pool of players. based off how well you do on tournament, you will be placed in standings just like hotkey. its just that dbd is not competitive game, so it has no need for that. some games do this for their competitive system. Like league of legends, you have 9 tiers of ranking and each one compromises pool of players, so its like having 1000's of mini-tournaments in the game that try rank you based off how often you win, but again, that's because league of legend is competitive game. it has competitive esport, competitive tournament etc.
What I will say is that tournament ranking type matchmaking system are not that good because casual gamers do not really care about how well you place. the primary objective in games for casual audience is fun. the competitive aspect? that is just more of side-quest for matchmaking to get games.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134355#Comment_3134355
The only way to make solo like SWF is to provide voice chat, and they never will do that. The best solution is to create a separate queue of solo and SWF. SWF will be balanced differently, either through base mechanics or perks. Perhaps in the SWF group generators take 100 seconds, or they have to repair 6 generators, or w/e other balancing tweaks need to happen to make it fair in that mode.
i do not think that would happen. they would simply remove the ability to swf from the game. note I do not believe that swf is inherently imbalanced, but I do think that killer(s) themselves are not balanced around SWF game efficiency. if you had global bond for example, you wouldn't as strong as swf 1:1 but it would be closer, close enough to be acceptable level.
@[Deleted User] said:
If a SWF is communicating and coordinating at the level OP is describing, then their MMR should be high enough that they're facing killer players that don't have any issue against that. Comms are a relative non-factor against a high level killer. If an optimal SWF is being matched against a killer that doesn't know how to play as if survivors are communicating, then it's a matchmaking issue.
I don't care if my totems are being called out because I'm never running naked Ruin/risk free totems. Feel free to proc Haunted. I don't care if someone calls out that I'm camping because I'm camping for a reason and it's up to them to make a play or lose. If they want to call out my patrols, it's whatever. I'm patrolling to where they should be anyway.
If you're used to playing against it and know how to play around it, it doesn't make a huge difference
I agree with your post more. Killer that are skilled at the game should be able to handle SWF though I'm not certain how you expect wraith to reach high mmr or reach high mmr. that is one of marginal problems. you get reduced killer variety as survivor from a bunch of killers not being too effective.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134006#Comment_3134006
Then you think SWF should be nerfed. Thanks for agreeing.
well that post is good description of why those information perk are unhealthy for dbd. just divides solo and swf.
Its unlikely they'll ever nerf swf. survivor will say your punishing them for playing with their friends and you certainly do not want remove it either. so its just better to make solo more closer to swf. its not to say that solo will ever be as good as swf, like perfectly 1:1 but if its close. its acceptable.
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Hag. Its like they designed this perk for hag.
Its strongest perk for hag because hag is all about proxy camping with hooks and taking advantage of altruistic actions. this perk effectively creates lose/lose scenario for the survivor because the way you beat a hag is ignore the person on the hook and rush gens so that hag gets no value from camping hooks, but this perk makes your teammates die faster if you ignore hook and almost forces you to "rush hooks" into hag's traps.
with new reassurance perk, if it becomes popular, i wonder if this perk could maybe lose its 24 meter condition. maybe it would be too strong....in the basement.
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i think blood amber should become an iri add-on for keys and it should show aura within 16 meters of the killer automatically if holding a key. the aura reading add-on for the survivor should also be automatic for showing all the other survivors. the channeling aspect of keys is pretty outdated design for keys.
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changes nothing, just makes recharge add-on's superior and range add-ons completely useless. worse then base-kit nurse.
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@Akumakaji said:
Tbh, the post was partially over the top, but it was truthfully inspired by the quite tough and taxing matches I face as a killerband the overly strong opinion that playing killer right now is somehow easy mode and that its akin to a walk in the park.
What the responses show, though, is that I am not alone with this perception. But rather then blanket buffs or debuffs I think that we need some kind of MMR bracket modifiers.
It seems pretty obvious that beginner survivors are having a very hard time with gaining any kind of stable footing, which has always been the case, but is now even increased.
On the same vein, in higher skill play very few changed at all. The most important thing is that the utter dominance of DH. That perks nerf alone made playing killer fun again. The 10% buffs also helps and award you some if the tighter chases, but the overall feeling is the same: gens get slammed left and right and some survivors run circles around you and give you their best "you can't touch this" impression.
So you can't honestly buff all killers across all skill levels, it just will always leave one end of the metric in the dust. So I think we might need MMR bracket adjustments.
So you can't honestly buff all killers across all skill levels, it just will always leave one end of the metric in the dust. So I think we might need MMR bracket adjustments.
that is what I was saying regards to skill-levels in dbd. improving base-stats of the killer affects survivors that have trouble looping normal killers. it just made it harder for lesser experienced survivors to loop while experienced players still loop just fine. In essence, killer's skill expression in regard to m1 at most loops is non-existed for the vast majority of maps.
killer's gain skill expression through their abilities and killer power. Since like 80% of the killer powers are ineffective against better players, they have little impact on the outcome of the match and big part of outcome of the match for killer is relied on survivor's skill-level. killer would need have some majorly game-changing add-on that improve the base-kit of their power to really be competitive against stronger players.
Survivor can finish the generator objective in 450 seconds which sounds ok in practice where it takes 7 minutes and 20 seconds for a single survivor to finish all generators, but the game is 4vs1 where 1 survivor is getting chased by the killer and 3 survivors are on generators. If you divide their objective by 3, it takes 150 seconds to finish the objective. that is roughly 2 minutes and 30 seconds. now survivor don't finish the game in 2 minutes and 30 seconds because of walking distance and killer game pressure but for strong swf, their typical objective time ranges between 5-6 minutes, sometimes 4 minutes.
Killers simply do not win in 5 minutes. like what killers really get 6-7 hooks in 5 minutes? Nurse starstruck maybe? Like in order for killer to win in 5-6 minutes, they practically need to 4 man slug the survivors and skip entire hook aspect of the game. 4 man slugging for the killer simply is not realistic for the killer.
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@Brokenbones said:
I don't wanna say Clown is 'Fine' he def needs mores changes but I think in the current state of the game he can be really oppressive in the right hands and (more importantly imo) the right perks. STBFL on Clown turns him into crack clown where he bottles you, hits you, bottles you and you make it nowhere.
One of the problems with Clown is that his counterplay essentially boils down to "don't loop, pre-drop and chain safe windows together" which makes a lot of matches vs Clown feel the same. If you try to loop him, you typically always get hit unless you've got a decent headstart
The yellow bottles are also criminally underrated but also not the easiest to use. I think they could do with a QOL change to make them not affect survivors, their logic for that was "you can use it to push survivors where you want them to go" but no survivor worth their salt will ever leave safety to run into a yellow bottle. Ever.
I mean, I've always used brutal strength+sbtfl on clown but his ability is suppose grant you anti-loop, both in the form of being able to play safe loops and catch-up post health state.
clown shouldn't need to use brutal strength at loops, he's suppose to be able to get hits even when pallet is down, otherwise what in the world is the point of the ability? Like if you load into maps like Gideon's meat packing plant or Fracture cowshed, his ability doesn't help you down survivors at dropped pallets so he's still force to break the pallets in many cases.
The other aspect is that clown has heighten movement speed from yellow bottles, he's not suppose to need catch-up perks post-health state. Just look at wesker's PTB bug with the 25.0 m/s, I'm not saying that clown is suppose move at 25 m/s per second but clown is suppose to feel fast for short time frame. the big contension i have with yellow bottles is that survivor can change their routing and make you "waste" bottles making it feel like using yellow bottle is like gambling. it makes timing speed boosts unreliable and feel like a waste of time. its much cleaner to just use pink bottles+stbfl rather than to rely on yellow bottles+pink bottles for catch-up post health-state hits and that aspect does not make much sense.
i think only aspect that really needs changing for clown is for his yellow bottles to have less activation time. I also do not understand why the yellow bottles increase the survivor movement speed. there's like no positive to ever increasing the survivor's movement as the killer.
Clown would be a lot less reliant on those two perks if yellow bottle was more reliable. Clown sort of always lacked perk variety because he feels the total need to use those perks to have a decent chase power. He also wouldn't really need pinky finger because yellow bottles emulate lethality through mobility catch-up.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131043#Comment_3131043
That's a fair assessment yeah, I agree. Thanks for taking the time!
I think Huntress is still pretty fair overall though. She can punish animation locks rlly hard but it's also equally viable to not put yourself in those scenarios. With PH it's different though, he can be a little unfair sometimes
I guess Nemmy does the same thing too
i don't like playing against huntress. good huntress are not that interesting to play against because a lot of their gameplay revolves around tactical shots that put you in lose/lose situation and like abusing map geometry so that you can't do tricky wiggles with like hatchet hitboxes. the issue is that baby huntress are laughable to play against and base-kit of huntress too easy exploit in term of line of sight.
I prefer playing against old deathslinger where its more about aim and raw aiming skill, the positioning to not get ADS cancelled spammed and game awareness to play against his low tr. the chain durability mechanic is healthy for slinger. while that change makes slinger stronger, it is super braindead.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131000#Comment_3131000
So do you think the same of Huntress? Not trying to be snarky here I'm curious
She and PH basically do the same animation lock punish you mentioned here
yes for huntress. Huntress often use flower basouka add-on for this reason. I like to use it with flower basouka +rose roots(the velocity hatchet add-on) because it stacks her wind-up mechanic and makes her hatchets more hitscan. lowers counter-play for survivor to juke hatchets. Makes harder for survivor to utilize LOS against her.
I liked using older variant of the add-on which applied 5% hindered for 30 seconds instead rose roots but both work just fine.
ph is weird. it depends distance. at further distances, his POTD has a lot of travel time and somewhat mild long charge-up time. most of the time, PH is usually zoning you in the corner of the map and spamming 20 POTD in a row because his ability has no cooldown and no associated cost. he's rewarded for spamming his ability mindless and not rewarded for precision. At the same time, the killer has little agency in being accurate with his ability.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Would that be OP? A tier killer or S tier? Nerf it ASAP or just strong but not OP?
I mean situation when if you shot someone while injured, breaking the spear will down you similary like when you are healthy and you got shot by spear and it gets broken instead of rolling towards the Slinger for M1.
Even if it wouldn't be OP I am pretty sure Survivors would hate him even more then before his rework.
imbalanced because the deathslinger can just shoot when you window vault or put pallet down. basically you just abuse animation locking. it has lack of counter-play.
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remove 1 blink charge is way too harsh. I think good solution is on PTB. What if nurse's blink had 50% more blink duration if nurse blinks through an obstacle? She would still go through objects but would be less powerful at loops and indoor maps.
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@Breadn said:
Picture this;
-You hit an insane curve as Hillbilly.
-You hit a sharp flick as Blight around a tight loop.
-You throw a perfect hatchet as Huntress.
-You perfectly guess the survivor's pathing as Hag.
In all of these situations, your mechanical and/or decision making skill is invalidated by the survivor pressing a button. No longer do you just get a cooldown, the survivor also gets a speed boost.
If you're playing Billy, it's like you're always running speed limiter. If you're playing Huntress, you're almost guaranteed to have to hit them three times. If you're playing Blight, you can't do anything flashy and have to waste more bumps to get a hit. As Hag, you can no longer rely on instantly hitting survivors after teleporting.
This isn't healthy for the game. It isn't healthy for a player's skill to be invalidated by "good timing" on a survivor's part.
I've used DH as survivor aswell, and every time I use it against a killer like this, I don't feel like I outplayed them. I feel like I got carried by a poorly designed mechanic that rewards sloppy play.
how is this any different from pre-rework dead hard? all these situations happened with old dead hard.
maybe survivor should stop d/cing and suicide on hook. dead hard is not dead. it just has higher skill-cap and the killer can properly counter it by waiting it out.
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@Crowman said:
Mori effects by nature should not be passively provided. Killers should have to work to earn those effects.
it would be better if her m1 increases condemn bar by 1. now she can work to build-up the bar.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
The problem is that if a survivor sees they got exposed from starstruck, they'll immediately run away from the killer, so unless the killer can hook the survivor very quickly, the other survivors will probably be out of range by the time you get to a hook.
People were doing this on the PTB against me when I was Wesker, and I didn't even have starstruck. I would hook someone, and then stare in disbelief that zero auras were on my screen.
that's why you run BBQ. so if they're near starstruck, you see them with aura perk and if they run away, you see them with bbq. another buff to nurse.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/339898/pyramid-desperately-needs-a-buff-add-on-rework
I've got bad news for you:
Pyramid Head is the single most over-hyped killer in the game.
People will tell you he is S-tier, or at the very least, top of A-tier. And why?
C A G E S
People like to pretend that PH can just put people into cages for free, every time. They like to forget (or are simply unaware) that the survivors have 100% control over not getting tormented. He literally cannot send a survivor into a cage unless they let him do it to them. Torment Trails take a very long time to set up, have extremely limited placement requirements, drain his shockwave, make a TON of noise, slow him way down, have a super limited number that can be placed, AND vanish on their own in an embarrassingly small amount of time.
And on top of all of that, survivors can STILL ignore them by just crouch-walking for 0.5 seconds.
You are absolutely right, OP. But the overwhelming majority of this forum will shout you down.
PH is not S-tier. He is not A-tier. He's BARELY B-tier. And anybody who does great with him could be doing just as well if not better with a majority of the other killers in the game (obvious losers like Sadako excepted).
And yeah. Don't even get ME started on his Addons. The worst selection in the entire game. He's basically an addon-less killer. Yet another reason why he is not now and will never be anything but a wildly over-hyped B-tier.
the issue is that all you need to do is put a tiny amount of torment under a pallet or near window. his torment prevents you from looping(going in circles) if you try to avoid it. In term of his anti-loop, his weakness is holding-w and changing tiles, but there is only so many tiles you change until you accept that your going to get tormented. Since the survivor perks do not work on his cages, his cages min-max and optimize the killer's objective.
its just that his 1vs1 became weaker after his negative changes.
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if you hook someone with torment, his torment->cage->tunnel someone off cage is really strong. with range add-ons, he can instantly put someone from injured to dying state straight out of a cage.
i do agree that his punishment of the damn can be outplayed however this is one of ranged power that goes through walls. I think the idea behind Obsidian goblet is that survivor can tell which direction your facing to fire the punishment of damn by looking at red stain, so I think undetectable is designed to remove red stain. Its not iri add-on worthy though.
I kinda wish they buff his purple add-ons. they're so bad... like what is the point of scarlet egg? 1.5 seconds of extra killer instinct for being on trails is so bad. maybe they should change it to you gain aura reading when the survivor is on trails and the effect persists for 1.5 seconds after leaving them.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121149#Comment_3121149
Actually that's my point. These kill rates are averaged across all ranks. So these are "the average player" the argument we always hear about why survivors can't be nerfed is because "SWF kill squads are rare and aren't the majority of players" or "we can't balance around top players"
Thus my argument is simple. If we can't balance around top level players, and instead balance around the average ones, then we need to nerf leatherface, pinhead, pig, plague and buff nurse, trickster and twins. However, if we decide that leatherface, pinhead, pig, and plague are fine and nurse needs nerfs, then we need to also nerf survivors more.
you just spotted survivor bias. survivor want best killer player nerfed to the ground while the entire survivor gameplay staying exactly the same.
survivor main wants dev to balance around the strongest killer players but dev to balance around weakest survivor players. As a result, the game is completely imbalanced for good players and the bad survivor players can now escape killers with more game-experience from the killer power being ineffective.
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@TheycallmeLix said:
Many killers abuse the ‘2 stacks basekit’ and pair it with STBFL and just start camping the hook. And you can’t do anything about (just keep hook trading every time). They need to lower the stacks to 4 or 3 stacks because this is getting out of hand with pretty much every Killer camping at hooks.
killers were camping before without the perk, so nothing changed. lower stacks isn't going change the killer standing at hook gameplay.
changing it just buff shift-w, med kits and endurance all of which don't need buffs. If anything the shift-w, med-kits and endurence are still arguably still too effective, perhaps needing more negative changes.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
I'd personally find it very distracting and actually harmful for people who are already used to her muscle memory. It could be an accessibility feature that you can turn on if you want to.
i mean they can make it that you can turn it off by pressing control or whatever secondary power button is for controller & xbox. i think large reason why nurse has low kill-rate is because its hard for new players to understand how her blink ability works and this add-on helps newer players figure how her ability operates.
for veteran players, you just memorize nurse's blinks but for new players, i think her blinks are not intuitive. pinhead has this add-on in his base-kit for opening gateway... and yet he has highest kill-rate despite... having similar mechanic to nurse's blinks. I wonder if nurse's kill-rate would go up if the add-on was base-kit? would weaker killer players suddenly get more kills on nurse? pinhead definitely makes you question nurse's performance.
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basement is free kills for killers with viable camping strategies. base-kit BT is not changing anything. you still need run BT to get saved from the basement. As few other have pointed out in the thread, it is another outdated dbd mechanic. the funny thing is that BT won't get both players out of the basement. you'll just be switching positions with the other survivor who got hooked in the basement.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
There are a few issues I have.
Legion, by design, is a killer meant to chain hits onto multiple survivors in rapid succession. The Deep Wound he inflicts is because he needs to leave the survivor to go hit another.
"But Legion is mostly unchanged and this lets him get the fifth hit easier!"
This has far more implications than you may realize. Legion can now get the fifth hit off 2 survivors and makes Pills + Mural Sketch even MORE powerful when it's already arguably his strongest add-on combo. This is a load BS. The 5th hit is deliberately made difficult to accomplish because Frenzy has effectively no counterplay besides hoping Legion screws up.
Also, this doesn't really change anything. Legion will just double hit you, so he's still annoying.
it has counter-play. you can stun a legion with a pallet when he hits you because he has recovery on successful hit. It does use up a pallet resource but it does prevent you from going down.
@BenOfMilam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3118991#Comment_3118991
There's some kind of solution somewhere. Stacking slowdown on killers with natural slowdown makes games pretty unpleasantly long at times, so it's either do something about natural slowdown or do something about stacking slowdown.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3119018#Comment_3119018
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3119154#Comment_3119154
I agree, add-ons and Legion's chain hit speed boost would be an issue. I like the idea of making the 5th hit easier, since going on a chase where you are getting hit multiple times by a fast killer is more exciting than a chase where you get hit and the killer runs off. More "high octane" gameplay and less "mending simulator" gameplay.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3119155#Comment_3119155
That's reasonable. At least with this change only two survivors would be mending at the absolute most, instead of frequently 3 survivors.
Reducing mending time is also a simpler and less potentially messy solution.
why are there 3 survivor mending? you can spread out and prevent mutiple injuries from happening. the vast majority of map are like 10,000 square km meters and legion doesn't have enough duration or speed to go from one end of the map to another. Smaller maps like... Gideon meat packing plant have short distances making feral frenzy easier to chain, however it has twice as many pallets in comparison to other maps.
this change guts the legion's 4vs1 and doesn't solve his terrible 1vs1 problem. the only change that would be acceptable for legion is making his feral frenzy down survivors like how it worked at release, though you would need give survivor's base-kit old dead hard for iframes to dodge his swing due to his ability to vault pallets and windows like survivors so that survivor can outplay his ability in chase.
not sure how you would implement base-kit dead hard.... but i mean nemesis has base-kit infections so maybe it works like an item? you press item button and dh for iframes happens with some cooldown on the item.
You can still do generators against legion that hit & run so I don't see any problem with his current mechanics.
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@Aven_Fallen but putting a limit is limiting freedom of choosing perks since certain perk have no effect from your limit.
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3118567#Comment_3118567
Because it nullifies multiple Killer strategies with almost no time investment that can also be used by all 4 Survivors
well part of reason why it hit & run is relevant for killers is because survivor have 5th default exhaustion perk slot when healthy. if you get hit as a survivor, the killer has to recover from their hit and survivor gains 20 seconds of just hold-w which allow them extend the chase for free. this used to be around 24 seconds before patch.
If healing is faster then the time it takes for killer catch-up, then killer is losing from 4vs1 perceptive. you are preventing yourself from going down which add time to your chase and everyone on your team gains 20 seconds on generators. i don't think healing should be time-sink against the killer. the only time sink health-states should give towards killer is survivor looping skills, you know, extra hit.
speed boost shouldn't be for free for survivor through healing. speed boost should only come from exhaustion perks.... like if you want speed boost on health-states, pick overcome. that's exhaustion perk designed for that exact effect and if you don't like this specific speed boost, then there a bunch of other exhaustion perks such as balance landing, Lithe, sprint burst, Smash hit and so on.
you can pretty much have all healing speed in the world as long it doesn't affect the killer from 4vs1 perceptive and add large time sink in the chase. I think its better just nerf health-states rather then making scarce because everyone might as well just be playing no mither at that point if healing is as slow as current self-care(or previous self-care for that matter).
just my opinion on it.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117866#Comment_3117866
The overcharge skill check is twice as fast as a normal skill check and tiny, I don't care what old skill checks use to be like. If you are claiming you can hit 100% of overcharge skill checks you are just a pathological liar.
it moves at same speed at as all other skill-checks. its also a lot bigger then normal great skill-checks. as I said, i recommend google steam dbd skill-check simulator to practice. the strong part for overcharge is not skill-check, its over-time regression. kicking generator in general is flawed dbd gameplay concept for killer because the survivor progression is suppose to always be greater. you basically need to already win the match as killer for these perks to do anything.
its kinda the same reason why eruption is bad killer perk because you need spend 15-30 seconds to kick gens but you only get 10% regression. survivors can do like 60-70% of a gen with 2 people on prove thyself in the time you take to walk to a gen and kick it. so these kicking perks are just not very useful for the killer.
pop goes weasel worked mainly because you could kick gens if a hook was near a gen. so it didn't waste much time but gave extra time for the killer. Using pop in any other form except this was not worth it. so all these kicking perks. they're just very pointless. killer need automatic perks that add time to the game and reward killer for hooking and moving away to do split injure pressure. not these kicking type of perks.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117826#Comment_3117826
That's cool and all but I don't believe you. Especially if the killer is just running between 3 gens and forcing you off constantly, you are bound to miss plenty.
skill-checks were way harder back in the day because killed used to have this perk called hex:ruin and the way it worked was that normal part of skill-check regressed generator by 5% and it counted as failed skill-check, so you had wait 5 seconds if you failed one.
They looked like this. you had to hit the tiny red part to not regress gen by 5% and not pause gen. this perk was used like every single game. it made me very good at skill-checks.
If you have trouble with skill-checks. you can google dbd skill-check simulator. you can set it to oppression skill-checks and you can also put unnerving presence on it. eventually you'll be able to hit at 100%. I have no need for this because.... of old dbd days....the new comers did not play dbd at a time where you needed to learn skill-checks so your skill-set for skill is not developed because you were never required to learn it.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117721#Comment_3117721
Yeah but you can't just say "oh well people with overcharge win in a 3 gen, don't get 3 gend". In a game with killers who can reliably just camp 3 gens all game. Overcharge is a problem, I think nerfing the regression rate kills the perk. So, I think the best way to go about making it not broken right now, is to go after the skill check.
why? I can hit the overcharge skill-check 100% of the time. even with unnerving presence its still too easy for me to hit skill-check. I played at a time where... you needed to be good at skill-checks to play vs old hex:ruin, that is why. overcharge is a perk that only works vs rank 20's.
over-time regression perks are pretty unhealthy overall but as long they do not have good numbers, they pose no harm in the game.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117652#Comment_3117652
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117656#Comment_3117656
I am assuming you both run the perk with your comments. Would you still run it if the skill check had a cool down?
the purpose of skill-check is to punish survivor for gen-tapping. so overcharge as a perk is designed for 3 generators. so is call of brine for that matter.
Putting a cooldown defeats purpose of punishing gen tapping. it does terrible job at punishing gen tapping because skill-checks in this game are super easy. the only viable way to get good survivor to miss skill-check is to use unnerving presence since it decreases the skill-check zone.
3 gen is just another one of those bad dbd game designs. its pretty much just camping gens instead of camping hook. the game is suppose to be about winning chases and flying around the map dynamically. not standing in one place for the entire game.
the only killer where 3 gens is part of their gameplay is territorial killers.... i.e trapper and hag but that's large reason why nobody really enjoys playing vs strong trapper or strong hag player because the match is just really dull and not interesting so there is that.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117227#Comment_3117227
"She should not be "dealt with" until the power of SWF is dealt with"
Most people don't get it. But this video goes to show that very good players can relay levels of information that would require 12-20+ perks to be in the same level of awareness. People will say oh this is the 1% so it's fine. This is a bad idea to allow in the game because it makes balancing impossible.
People go nuts when I suggest SWF should have : No character repeats, No Item repeats, No perk repeats. That is a very simple change that makes the SWF platform less viable for abuse. It will have almost zero effect on 2 man teams which is more than half of the SWF players (based on last time we got stats for SWF usage). All they would need to do is add an interface where you can see the perks of other SWF members in a group over their head similar to how they would appear next to your perks if they were buffs like Vigil. Non-repeated perks are blue and repeated perks turn red.
Have you seen the video he made where he plays nurse?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEzpkirSaNc
No perks - No addons
It's just 100% stomping skill with near perfect blinks.
"People go nuts when I suggest SWF should have : No character repeats, No Item repeats, No perk repeats."
This is exactly why tournament are terrible representations of the game. the game is not balanced around no perk repeats or no item repeats. its balanced around item repeats and perks repeats.
if a perk is so good that you can repeat 4 times, i.e it has very high-pick rate, then this perk should be nerfed or its effect should be re-considered in the base game since high pick-rate perk means that players are putting this perk into base-kit of the game by choosing the perk every single game.
many survivor do use items in the classical matchmaking setting. As you can even see in the video you posted, the game had commodious toolbox+both charge add-ons and two yellow med-kits with 32 charges(2 heals). The other was brand new part toolbox. Items are definitely part of the game though a lot of killer are so weak that items end up making the game pretty imbalanced for the killer so I would consider items to unfair due to current killer-balance not being up to par for where it should be.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117253#Comment_3117253
What on earth are the survivors doing if they're going down in under 20-30 seconds? I know it happens, but that's so hard to do unless you're simply not running away from the killer at the start of the chase.
20-30 second chases is pretty normal for nurse. her blinks counter hold-w and pretty much all nurses use double recovery or range+recovery. its blink-blink hit, blink blink-hit. its like fastest chases you can do in the entire game minus instant downs.
for normal killers, they have to walk for 20 seconds to get into the chase, hit the survivor, wipe their weapon, watch survivor make 20 distance for free, walk another 20 seconds, hit them, put them on a hook. all this time takes like 60 seconds. this isn't even talking about pallets and windows that all other killer have to face.
then you have people asking: "why isn't every killer as good as nurse?" omg lul.
@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117248#Comment_3117248
Its about the chase to gen speed ratio a normal killer typically can end a chase (when the survivor plays well) in about 50-60 seconds (which is too slow TBH) But nurse can do it in about 15 seconds (which is too fast)
well 15 second is exaggeration for sure. better survivor players can juke nurse's blinks especially long distance ones that are greater 15 meters. you do this by manipulating her travel time on blinks and predicting her blink locations, so not every chase is instant win in my experience when playing vs nurse.
the thing that i hate about nurse is the fact that even when you parry few nurse blinks, like 2-3 of them. you just get zoned into the corner of the map and suddenly you don't have the travel distance or ability to predict blink location anymore. so its just free hit. thankfully, dead hard is a perk in the game survivor.... so at least survivor get second chance.
problem with dh these days vs nurse is that a lot of nurses use Agitation+starstruck for instant downs or flood of rage+MYC and proxy camp hooks with it. there's also haunted ground & devour hope nurses and even noed used to be a thing on nurse. that's why a lot of player asking for her attacks to be special attacks.... which doesn't make much sense because her power is blink from point a to point b. she still lunges and does basic attack.
instant downs make it much harder to use DH vs nurse and health-states which are prime chase extenders for nurse are less valuable.
I mean they did that change for legion feral frenzy to be special and he still does normal lunges with slightly more base m/s so who knows, maybe her attack become special but it will be pretty weird. it also encourages nurses to run more gen defense perks but those perk are progressively becoming weaker, so there is that.
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@LeeONE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117285#Comment_3117285
Not like Dying Light is a good perk in a first place, also hooking 4 different survivors is not easy task, especially if they will try to avoid it, most likely you will loose gen or two while trying to get it, anyway, just tweak numbers
it has the grim embrace problem.
Grim embrace currently blocks all generator for 40 seconds. the killer has to go directly out of their way to hook separate survivors and to make sure they do not hook same person twice.
it would just be better if it only affected healing speed with old numbers, then at least it has some use in anti-heal builds. now its just bad for gens and has no real purpose.
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@Laluzi said:
I see it get run less, and teammates are better about looking for the totem versus immediately leaving. Still uncounterable if the killer hooks someone next to the totem, but in that case, you just leave.
I do wish they'd nerfed it a different way so that the endgame reward was proportionate to killer performance beforehand, but it isn't as much of a bandaid for horrible gameplay as it was before.
I don't think much changed about noed. noed is end-game slugging perk. you use it to get multiple downs until you get a down near the totem then you just hook a person near totem and you get free kill. not many people cleanse all 5 dull totems because that's just giving the killer old hex:undying for free and than there's hex:pento which discourages cleansing dull totems in general.
I think its just harder to use now because people can find your totem easier before you can slug. it gives less kills now because its harder to change 0k into 4k now in the end game. it still gives free kills in many games but doesn't carry you from 0k to 4k anymore from fast-cleansing.
from using it, it feels like its just better to run rancor now for end game kills in isolation. I guess if you run noed and rancor, you can get 1 kill from mori and 1 kill from noed hook camping so there is that i guess. its just feels weird to run perks to "lose" only to get same result as playing normal.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I know which one you're talking about. Downstairs two story, unsafe one in the street, and in the house next to the 2 story. That one is nasty. It wouldn't be quite as bad if there wasn't a giant void of nothing next to the gen in the street.
sounds like your playing against me. I always 3 gen on new haddonfield. good riddance to all swf that were burning that map offering. too bad they replaced old haddonfield with this garden of joy map.. that is almost as bad current badham.
now that survivor complained about it, they're gonna change like dead dog saloon. sigh
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115815#Comment_3115815
Disagree with you killer meta is still slow down but survivor meta has really changed. Ds is very rare because it's so bad now.
its not bad. it still changes your health-state from dying to injured. DS is basically like newbie-type second chance perk. Survivor that are extra-bad at the chase can use it with Off the record because they're going down in 30 seconds, So DS is like extra health-state for playing bad, So assuming killer is tunneling and picks you up, it still works.
DS only loses value for survivor that are good at the chase because the extra hit from off the record delays the down and if your good at the chase i.e you can survivor more 60 seconds, then you won't get value out of DS because your DS will expire before you go down, but if you have looped the killer for more then 60 seconds, Chances you are likely to be winning the match as survivor assuming your team does the generator objective.
TL:DR DS is a perk that carries weaker survivor players.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Killers are still using slowdown perks.
And survivors are still using one exhaustion perk. Exhaustion perks are still meta tho. But at least second chance perks are dead mostly. Even OTR is not so popular.
what are you talking about? I get hit by off the record every single game now. I still see 1 dead hard every game. The only thing i've noticed is less people using Borrow time post-patch but more survivors using Prove thyself. There's like 1 prove thyself every match. I also still see decisive strike despite survivors claiming the perk is not usable.
Nothing has changed for survivor. In fact all their best perks are still.... their best perks. Dead hard is still best exhaustion perk. DS is still second chance that stacks with other second chance perks. OTR is new anti-tunnel perk. it gives iron will, self-borrow time and distortion for 80 seconds. Prove thyself is still prove thyself power-level, I have no clue honestly why survivor weren't using this perk on 80 second generator but suddenly opt to use this perk at 90 second generators, whatever.
The only perks that survivor truly lost in strength is self-care. that's it. Spine chill is ironically still strong because of their "hotfix" on the "hearing impaired".
what about killer? Almost all their meta became worse. Substantial worse.
Corrupt ->Punishes you for playing the game efficiently.
Ruin -> Completely dead
Pop goes weasel -> Lost 50% of its overall effectiveness and now has the 2 perk synergy problem with needing tinkerer to be used.
Dead man switch -> Lower duration/Weaker
Thanatophobia -> Completely dead
The BBQ change for lower BP makes lower-tier killer less rewarding to play. The only surviving killer perk that did not get destroyed is Scourage hook: Pain Resonance. So while second-chance meta of survivor lives on, The killer perks are shattered and left with a single potent regression perk. Killers still rely on slowdowns and need slowdowns but all the perks that now grant slowdowns have meaningless low numbers that do very little to impact the match. The meta did change, but only for one side.
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@jamally093 said:
The exposed status effect is like STBFL where it has weird requirements you can down go down in one hit facing Deathslinger but if Blight rush hits me do I go down?
no. blight's power is special attack.
Deathslinger's power is his pull from his gun. he still hits you basic attack after breaking his own chain.
Nurse's power power is blinking from point A to point B, She still hits you with a basic attack.
These two killers down with exposed, The rest of the killer cast powers do not work with exposed. Beware that blight has iri add-on called Irisdescent tag, It allows his power to instant down you on final charge attack.
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@The_Yosh said:
I am always someone who tries to run different builds, and in doing so have found that there are a lot of perks that are just worthless.
I have a list of them, but my most recent discovery is Sabotage. Without a toolbox it is 2.5s, but a killer's successful swing cooldown is 2.7s. The problem is there is an animation cooldown (like the one after unhooking before healing) before you can start the sabotage. This means the killer can easily make the distance or get a second swing in and down you. Furthermore, when you do manage to get a Sab off, most of the time it doesn't matter because the hooks are so damn close together they can make it to another in time.
Like many other perks, running Sab in solo queue is horrendous as it means I am not doing gens because I need to be following the chase. Compound this with a lack of communication, and you have a 'perk' that is actually detrimental to your team.
Overall, I really want to try fun builds, but anything other than the meta is causing me to lose more games than I win. I thought they would be fun, but I am finding I am getting tunnelled more, and my teammates are actually angry that I am not just sitting on gens.
yeah saboteur perk is pretty useless. they should make the perk increase sabotage action speed by 70% and make the perk not go on cooldown when interrupted.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3114201#Comment_3114201
Literally nobody thinks that. The pink version is better for infinite t3.
i like his hair bow better than inf3. inf3 takes so long to stalk that your basically playing without a power for 70% of the game since hitting a survivor defeats purpose of instant down for the entire game, so your never hitting anyone, but forces yourself to stalk to get t3. I prefer hairbow because you can balance your stalking. you can stalk in places where it is low-wall loop to milk the survivor. it gives enough chances to try get mutiple hits within a single tier 3 while not throwing the game just to activate your ability. your not really going activate his tier 3 more than once or twice per game vs efficient generator teams.
some myers don't use hairbow or inf3 because they prefer to 99 their EV3 and play like ghostface with his memorial flower+J.Myer. its kinda weird because your constantly pausing your own chases to chases to stalk and you will run out of stalk doing this. I don't really get the point because you might as well just use Tombstone piece and 99% to instant kill a survivor.
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@theTARNavsky said:
"People say it had no counterplay, but it did. As long as I messed up the shot and sucked at Deathslinger in general it was balanced and counterable."
Lol, a counterplay to a killer should be that they have to mess up. Great logic 🙂
sounds like god pallets and safe pallets for survivor. why should i need wait for a survivor to make a mistake for me to down them.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113873#Comment_3113873
nowhere in my post do I say that you need to be injured for bonus to apply. The perk I am suggesting is you gain 15% action penalty for equipping the perk. No strings attached.
Okay, I misunderstood. but that's because I couldn't believe the suggestion. No one should get a 15% slowdown for simply equipping a perk. A perk should never give value by sheer virtue of existing. It's the same issue people have with Deadlock; you will always get value even if you afk in a corner. It's unfair and uninteractive.
Next, you bring up camping hooks, and I do not understand. If Legion camps someone on hook, then heal at 5 gens, then heal and go for a save. Very simple, especially with boons/medkits being very common. Are you saying Legion's biggest selling point is that he could camp with Thana? That would be dumb, as you'd be better running Deadlock which has less counterplay, is more consistent, and works on all killers (such as Bubba).
New Thana... now is only useful if you're Plague/Legion, keeping the entire team injured. I feel this misses the point. Thana at full power was too oppressive but Thana at partial power was too weak to justify using on most killers. This rework... only kept the oppressiveness on the two best users.
my post is referring to your post in regards to only being useful on two killers and larger more broad reply to posts saying that the perk was killed for everyone except these two killers. in truth its killed for every single killer including these two killers.
A perk should never give value by sheer virtue of existing. It's the same issue people have with Deadlock; you will always get value even if you afk in a corner. It's unfair and uninteractive.
Oh I completely agree. in general, gen blocking perks are designed for camping hooks which is why I dislike them to large degree. that's why i dislike corrupt intervention and whole premise of equipping a perk to get free value. Deadlock is also the same. automatic value for equipping perk...again used for camping. The worst offender of it is the Artist with dead man switch. A vast majority of the games playing against artist is having one person get hooked and Artist spamming crows at generators where you are forced to take off crows which blocks generator for 45 seconds, which is now nerfed to 30 seconds. We'll skip the whole grim embrace perk that nobody uses.
Unfortunately with all the perks related to leaving hook incentives nerfed, a common meta build for killer is deadlock+pain res+dms.
you bring up camping hooks, and I do not understand. If Legion camps someone on hook, then heal at 5 gens, then heal and go for a save. Very simple, especially with boons/medkits being very common.
Common conception is that you shouldn't heal against legion and I am explaining how the perk can be used for camping purposes to get free pressure. you know, the perk giving value by sheer virtue of existing. its not so easy to go for the save as isolated survivor in this situation because of killer playing the hook-grab game. If you don't know what this is about, you can watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk62Y_HnXMs scottjund video titled how to win the "grab game". To answer the question in your post, yes that is arguably his strongest strength. He certainly isn't going to be going for 12 hooks with his crap m1 gameplay. Deadlock can be countered by either 2 man/3 man generators such that the perk activates and blocks a random generator that has no progress. you can also work on multiple generators but leave the generator at 99% so the perk hits a pointless generator that you can just tap to finish it. Thano is way stronger for camping in this format because you cannot ignore its effects other than heal which is also indirectly generator slowdown.
the counter for thano legion is spread out so that feral chaining is hard and not going down to his m1 gameplay. Healing key moments with moderation. this applies to all killer that use thanatophobia. Its not overwhelming on any killer. Its only overwhelming if your survivor chase play is bad and your generator optimization is weak as a team. Most survivor dislike when their bad plays lead to losses which is why the perk is unlikely to be reconsidered.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113570#Comment_3113570
Thana is a perk that, in concept, is made to punish the entire team for not healing. That's why it scales with injuries, and why it works so well on Plague/Legion, killers you don't heal against. It's a Nurse perk with her perks theme being that they relate to injuries/healing. As such, Thana will always be better on Legion/Plague. If you have it be a flat 15% for one person being injured, that's asinine as there's likely to be one person injured at any given time.
As for your other statement, Legion was not the worst killer in the game. Period. I don't care what Scott said. The entire belief that he was the worst killer was "he has no power to down survivors," which makes little sense given Wraith, Sadako, and Myers are effectively in the same boat (being exposed and being injured are effectively the same).
Reason Legion has been... let's say, reevaluated is that he's been buffed a lot directly and indirectly. The rework replaced his add-ons that ranged from decent to useless. Now, most of his add-ons are actually pretty good, give or take a couple. The rework also made his power a lot less clumsy, reducing his brutal fatigue while also improving his ability to chain hits in a frenzy, instead of constantly frenzying, canceling, frenzying, and so on. To top it off, you can no longer just "give" hits to Legion, because now, chaining hits has a consequence that if he gets 5, you go down.
But what's really helped Legion is that now he is effectively immune to Endurance. This means that DH, BT, and OtR are effectively useless against him. This is huge, as the two best anti-tunnel perks don't work, and exhaustion perks might as well be useless in a lot of cases (not all; but a handful). DH doesn't work, the others won't stop him from injuring you fast since he can still vault pallets, and even if you were already injured before you SB to a pallet, the chase time is still cut in half because you're still a one-shot that doesn't expire.
Thana was good on Legion, but it's not like Freddy with gen regression. Freddy and gen regression are like two pieces of a puzzle; you need them both to make something. Legion doesn't need Thana, even if he was/is perhaps its best user.
If you have it be a flat 15% for one person being injured, that's asinine as there's likely to be one person injured at any given time.
nowhere in my post do I say that you need to be injured for bonus to apply. The perk I am suggesting is you gain 15% action penalty for equipping the perk. No strings attached.
Do I agree killer should get free generator slowdown for doing nothing? Of course not. The perk is suppose reward the killer for spreading injuries. that's why the perk doesn't grant big bonuses at 1 stack and is not that good if you tunnel single survivor out of the game as you will be permanent at 1 stack or facecamp hooks with 1 person injured on the hook. By chasing multiple survivors and spreading hooks, it rewards the killer for their successful chases and punishes survivors for not healing and rushing generator while injured. I mean iron will was like 4th most used perk and its part of genrushing while injured meta.
Can killer still camp hooks with it? Of course. if you injure entire team, you can cash in your injure pressure and try to convert it into 2nd or 3rd hooks. I mean as long as hooks regress, facecamp hooks and try to 2nd hook or 3rd hook a survivor will always be possible. I would argue this was one of legion's strongest selling points because he could injure entire team very early into the match, go after 1 survivor, down them and put them on a hook. If all 5 generator are incomplete and all 4 survivor are injured, you will not complete the entire objective while injured before the person on the hook dies. Sending single person injured will just lead them to get slugged on top of the hook and sending multiple survivors injured onto the hook will result in a lot of slugging pressure for the killer, though you may hook trade like this. This dynamic also exists for plague's sickness although it is very easy to heal with a fountain. I mean fountain were strongest med-kit in the game, 5 second to heal, now 8 seconds as it keeps getting nerfed from 3 to 5 to 8 seconds. They're still strongest med-kit in the game though in isolation disregarding certain very extreme perks combinations & item combinations.
I can go into more detail for why this gameplay dyanmic is not healthy game design considering the killer is winning games by standing-still at the hook and using automated functionalities of their power to win due to lack counter-play on sickness & legion feral frenzy but we'll skip that part.
With that being said, I don't think he is the worst killer in the game. He certainly isn't strong though. I don't think m1 killer with current loop design will ever be strong. This is why i said community and not "I" in the post. Scottjund is right that legion is not strong. It is easy to spread and he has no chase power so leading long chases is easy if the survivor is skilled at looping. Do survivors make an effort to spread out against legion? Well.you can look at your soloq games for that answer and i will say... somewhat. you need to group to heal, so its not exactly possible to stay split up 100% of the time and many generator in the game are located in the center of maps where co-op generators eases the completion. as a result, the aspect of split up is lose/lose aspect towards survivor gameplay(hello prove thyself). When it comes to looping legion, Don't even get me started on how many teammate still struggle to loop m1 killers on like 90% of survivor-sided maps where legion gets a down in first 30 seconds of the game. that is just another survivor learn to play issue that make legion a lot more viable then he is really suppose to be.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111256#Comment_3111256
Well it should have been nerfed more on Legion and Plague, and less on all the other killers. Which is kind of what the suggestion of OP would do.
his version of the perk still makes it stronger on legion & plague because it is still a scaling perk based off injuries.
if you want it to not scale based off injures.... then you remove the scaling on injuries and put a flat penalty worth using. what posts like these are asking for is dev to change thanotophobia to flat 15% bonus with no conditions. now everyone gains same benefit for using the perk.
what i don't understand is that for longest time, the community has said that legion is one of weakest killer in the game and need changes... so they rework him to make him stronger at injuring survivors which is what his entire ability does and they buff his perk in mid-chapter only to obliterate it.
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@Wewantjason said:
I take back what i said. same thing happening on clown who i have played twice since he released. There is absolutely nothing to do but force the goddamn ######### pallet and lose ######### gens. I literally wish I never won so many matches. This is worse than when I was new and could only get one kill. I can literally see and tell exactly what the ######### survivors are going to do and can't do a goddamn thing about it. Not to mention a single extra person walking up to interrupt the chase just ruins the entire goddamn thing.
I'm starting to understand truetalents rants now. Before I just thought he was salty but the game is literally pointless as a killer once the mmr gets higher. It took me getting here to understand why killers got these buffs that they got. The only way any survivors can possibly be mad at this patch is they are low rank and can't loop pallets. this is absolutely insane.
yeah, you won't understand tru3's position or killer's problems until you are among top killers in the game. there is reason why tru3 has the positions he has in regards to the game. Once your MMR gets high enough, a lot of killer lack skill expression to beat truly outstanding survivor players. otz's 30 second afk challenge +no perks/add-on with 4k on killer is not gameplay reality for killers.
there's no real secret that can help you. you have to learn to play nurse/blight/bubba and pyramid head to have an impact on the outcome on the match at higher levels of play. you need to be very efficient at either tunneling survivors out or be very effective at combining slugging & hook camping to beat better players. Most games for killer are around 5 minute long in term of generators so eliminating early survivors out of the game is completely required. A lot of the pallet loops do not have very much mindgames if the survivor is good and makes no errors. for low-tier and medium tier killers, the game is largely a pallet break simulator on like 90% of the maps. clown happens to be part of that pallet break simulator so tough luck for your clown games.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109825#Comment_3109825
It is a problem when you actually take a look at gen times, with this perk equipped, before and after the patch.
Before the patch we had the values 5/10/15/20 % slowdown, and 80 second gens:
- 5%: 84,2 seconds
- 10%: 88,8 seconds
- 15%: 94,11 seconds
- 20%: 100 seconds
Now the former buffed Thana of 5,5/11/16,5/22 % with 90 second gens:
- 5,5%: 95,2 seconds
- 11%: 101,1 seconds
- 16,5%:107,8 seconds
- 22%: 115,4 seconds
So even with only 2 survivors injured, gens already took longer than before the update with all four survivors being injured.
The point of increasing gen times was to take some of the power that slowdown perks had, and add it to the basekit of killers, so they'd be less dependent on slowdown perks. Even if Thana would have stayed at 5%, it would have still made gens take noticeably longer than before the update, because of gens taking 90 seconds now. In case of Thana, they made gens at base more slower, but then they also added even more slowdown potential to Thana as well, instead of taking a bit of that additonal slowdown of Thana away, which they should have done to begin with.
That's also why Pentimento is quite the problem at the moment, and maybe even Gift of Pain, which would be more balanced at 14 or 12 %.
Lets say Thana had fixed values of 6/9/12/15 % for every injured, downed or hooked survivor. That would lead to the following:
- 6%: 95,7 seconds
- 9%: 98,9 seconds
- 12%: 102,3 seconds
- 15%: 105,9 seconds
So as you can see, gens with Thana would still take noticeably longer than before the patch, especially with only 1 or 2 survivors injured,without being crazy strong. Only that some of that potential power and slowdown, is now actually located in the baseline gen times, which are now 90 seconds.
That was the point of the big update, why gens got increased by 10 seconds, and why meta slowdown perks got nerfed. BHVR just didn't realise that other slowdown perks would become problematic like this as well.
The Thana we have now is much better. It's not as much of a problem anymore, but the way it was nerfed was far from ideal. With fixed values like I suggested, it would be much more consistent on all killers. Still fairly good on every other killer, but not too oppressive on Legion and Plague.
the extra 10 seconds which amounts to 50 seconds is misleading. survivors typically have 1 survivor in the chase and 3 survivors on the objective. the extra 50 seconds is not 50 seconds extra added to the game, its 50/3 added to the game which is around 16 seconds. the killer still needs slowdown, it is just that situation in term of gens is less severely problematic compare to before. the problem is that survivors are now using prove thyself and this is negating the buff that killer got to pre-patched gen speeds which is now becoming problematic.
thana according to dev when it was changed to affect only generators and not healing was supposedly changed to not provide a lose/lose for the survivor and to incentive the survivors to heal before doing generators. How does 2%/4% and 6% punish the survivor for not healing? 5 seconds of extra gens for 75% of the team not healing is not punishing the survivor for not healing. the perk fails now to punish the survivor for not healing.
survivors got to keep their second chance perks stacking in-tact with dead hard, ds, off the record(replaces iron will), bt while killers received nerfs to all of their meta slowdown perks ruin, pop, dms+pain dms synergy, corrupt and new thano post-patch while their 10 second buff is nulled by prove thyself which before patch was even stronger but for some reason, nobody was using it.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110636#Comment_3110636
Most m1 killers can't ignore body blocking if it's done right. New MoM is a really good anti tunnel perk.
With the latest update you can't really outrace the killer in objectives if they are efficient anymore. If you aren't actively trying to stop tunneling you are helping the killer.
2 survivors preventing the killer from gaining progress on his objective while 2 sit on gens is better then 3 survivors on gens and one rapidly dying now.
A full slowdown killer who tunnels will completely lock the game down the second one survivor is dead
With the old MoM you had to bodyblock, heal, bodyblock, heal and bodyblock again before you could get any value
Now one bodyblock and a heal is enough to have a double bodyblock available for someone being tunneled. Even in solo this can really prolong the lives of your teammates.
The new one is more consistant in what it does and it does it well. That the end result of the previous version was better doesn't matter if it was never achieved without throwing the game
i don't think its anti-tunnel perk. its an offensive second chance. the perk weaponizes and rewards the other second chances.to be used completely offensive against the killer. the worst part is that the killer can do very little to prevent its activation because protection hits occur in places where the killers are doing their objective(walking to a hook, slugging and near unhook process). Old MoM and current MoM is like worst designed perk for survivor.
with OTR+break out, you can get healed by teammates and bodyblock hooks with OTR+Break out to get mettle of man active after being unhooked. you can use OTR and then use mettle of man after being unhooked If you mend.
With BT, if you have 1 stack of MoM from purposely bodyblocking a hook then healing yourself with a med kit, if a killer tries to leave the hook, you can purposely align your distance between killer such that you get an unhook within 15 meters which is nearly unhooking in the killer's face. the killer get punished for going after the unhooked person through DS+OTR(Tunneling) but he also get punished for not tunneling because if he hits the survivor that just unhooked who is healthy, MoM activates so now MoM becomes an exhaustion perk if the killer continues to chase the survivor.
With DS+OTR+Unbreakable, If the killer doesn't tunnel you and leaves you to get unhooked safely, you can just run at the killer and use your second chances offensively. If the killer slug's you, you can unbreakable and still have MoM active while slugged to bodyblock more and if the killer takes DS and activate chases you, now you get MoM active. free second chance for getting the killer to chase you by weaponizing OTR and DS while having safety net with unbreakable.
Normally its bad idea to use second chance perks offensively because they leave you vulnerable and the killer will often tunnel you for using them offensively. Like purposely bodyblocking with DS+OTR will often make killer tunnel you leaving without any second chances for the chase. Unhooking in the killer face is not smart, neither is bodyblocking hooks when your -1 hook state and your teammate is +0, but with Mettle of man, the perk rewards you for doing all these actions. a perk that rewards the survivor for purposely making bad plays is such silly design and you lose killer momentum for these bad plays that get rewarded into good plays.
The equivalent of this perk is like having a killer regress all generators around the map by 20% if he hits bloodlust 3 and downs a survivor in a chase. The killer is purposely playing chases to hit bloodlust 3 only to get rewarded by regressing generators. terrible designed perk. MoM in a nutshell.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109790#Comment_3109790
How is it? I’m consistently blocking gens on every hook due to interruption or through using possesed chains or chain hunt to block them. Even throw in surveillance if you want the info for essentially the old combo all over again
yeah new dead man switch is pretty big nerf for pinhead. i love hoarder+old dms switch combo. its so good. it completely ascends pinhead's 4vs1. feels good to rewarded for hooks and not require to camp. 30 sec will feel so short.
I don't know why merciless storm is based off regression for activation, it makes more sense for it to be on timer similar to tinkerer. the way to fix it would have been to make it work like tinkerer. old tinkerer was like 95% so why is this 90%? the killer is unlikely to be able to save the generator at 90%. just make it work like whenever a gen reaches 70%, merciless storm activates for 12-14-16 seconds. works once per gen.
the perk can literally have copied pasted values from tinkerer's trigger range and duration of undetectable converted into the super easy skill-checks.