Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3163330#Comment_3163330
Otz wasn't being tunneled straight out of the match either.
i mean if your being tunneled, your in the chase with the killer. I'm not sure how your healing in a chase vs this perk unless your using the pink med-kit add-on that works automatically. Like I said, you don't really go against that perk very often so its difficult to adjust to it. If you went against the perk every game like old ruin, you would adjust to speed of skill-check's.
The skill-check is still like 10x bigger then old ruin checks, so I'm sure you can hit normal checks 100% of the time with practice. Just that nobody gets to practice vs it because its sort of situational perk.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3163317#Comment_3163317
Its not skill checks. Its the SPEED of skill checks that are tiny and move faster than you can actually push the button and lets the killer hear an explosion also. I use to use it on Trapper for the Impossible Skill Check with old Overcharge but this speed and the amount of skill checks you get is just too much for 1 perk. Also, yes, I have. It really sucked. People are legit sucking the FUN out of the game.
on normal maps, you get run out of coulrophobia radius. If its the game map or elementary school, your suppose beat the build without healing. I mean if you have a med-kit, you can still heal, but its going take awhile and you'll need adjust to the skill-checks because they're old ruin level difficult. if people ran the perk more, you'd eventually get used to it and be able to land normals consistently. don't expect to hit greats with such speed on checks.
https://youtu.be/fgRFCkgEXDU?t=478I mean otz healed just fine with green med-kit. the self-care healing might take a long while though so I do not recommend.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
Have you guys even tried doing a skill check against a killer with that, Sloppy Butcher and Unnerving Presence? Its just about impossible. Its too fast and small to even get a heal off and if you're using a medkit, well, that's all your charges. 50% skill check speed is ridiculous on a perk.
you sound like Almo when he went against hex:lullaby doctor on Gideon meat packing plant. I mean sloppy butcher+Coulrophobia is 70% action speed healing decrease. you really shouldn't be healing vs that to begin with. The heal will take little less then self-care.
The skill-checks are possible, but they're a lot more challenging. did you play Doctor impossible skill-check heal build or something? that is what skill-checks would look in dbd if they were meant to be challenging.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162529#Comment_3162529
This is everything wrong with killer in DBD. The skill required is too high for the minimal reward. Meanwhile survivor gameplay is holding W and predropping pallets
i don't disagree. but wesker could be a killer that counters pre-dropping pallets and holding-w while being a fair killer that the survivors can outplay if survivors side-step his virulent bound. I think he's still good, just that he could be greater.
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this is one aspect of wesker's power that is properly balanced. it does not need changes, everything else related to his bounds need changes.
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@Canas said:
There's one more aspect which is extremely underwhelming about this killer and the way he's supposed to synergize with his perks.
I'm talking about dashing over pallets while having Superior Anatomy equipped. The slowdown you experience from his tentacle animation right afterwards pretty much invalidates any advantage you might hope to gain from performing this silly circus trick. Survivors can loop easily to the other end of the pallet you just vaulted just to make you repeat the nonsense ad infinitum.
You absolutely cannot catch up to anyone, there is no point to vaulting pallets as Wesker.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162580#Comment_3162580
Because he doesn't deserve to have such an abnormally large TR considering his pitiful gameplay.
Survivors can loop easily to the other end of the pallet you just vaulted just to make you repeat the nonsense ad infinitum.
You absolutely cannot catch up to anyone, there is no point to vaulting pallets as Wesker.
its too bad his power goes on cooldown after vaulting a pallet. If only he could use his 2nd bound after vaulting a pallet. what a world of difference would it make for his tile-set play. dropping safe pallets is creates an infinity against his power.
When pallets are not dropped, his slow cast-time combine with slow movement speed does not help him get hits at pallets
They also nerfed his only redeeming feature in PTB which was his ability to hit people between loops. Now with slow dash and smaller collision, side-step his dash is super easy. Its like dodging huntress hatchets without any wind-up charge up, too slow of a projectile.
His mobility was a problem in PTB. The recharge rate on his ability is quite long and his total dash distances is too little based off the slowdown he receives after finishing the dash. recharge-rate add-on has low % and range add-on have drawbacks.
Its pretty normal for BVHR to limit skill-ceiling of killers. so nothing special there.
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
I've been saying this since the goddamn PTB, but no one listened and said he was "A tier" and that he was "A better Demogorgon"
dug was talking about his hypothetical potential to be strong killer. he has all elements to be strong killer, but his variables/balance is very bad. Demo power is stronger because his variables/balance is a lot better despite having more limited tools compare to Wesker. Demo power has more limited functionalities but the few functionalities that demo has are really good. All of wesker's functionalities are dysfunctional and very weak.
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@Canas said:
He has far too much counterplay while suffering from severe handicaps at the same time. He feels like a mix between Nurse and Blight in terms of mobility yet he's not even HALF as good as them. Hitting his power feels like a feat of luck, there are only a handful of maps which support his playstyle.
You have too little control over the distance of his dashes which makes it extremely hard to chain his two dashes properly with each other just to barely make contact with a survivor. The cooldowns are also far too high, he gets punished superhard for missing his ability.
The slowdown is ridiculous and the time it takes to regain his tokens is too great as well. And to make matters worse you've placed an overabundance of first aid sprays (which happen to have TWO uses) on the map just to immediately invalidate any advantages he might gain from infecting someone with his extremely hard to hit power.
At this point he'd be better off if his power dealt damage 100% of the time, it's ridiculous to make it rely on further map collision (making the survivor hit a wall).
I fear Wesker/The Mastermind is suffering from Trickster syndrome - he might look and sound great but his actual gameplay is dreadful and downright dysfunctional. Without his ridicuously hard to use power he's just a 115% killer who doesn't look at the ground after getting stunned, at least that's one advantage he has over the other killers. Now if only he didn't have his absurdly large terror radius...
that's how bvhr is with killer powers. loads of drawbacks with no reward for using the ability.
High perceived skill-cap, low reward for being good at the killer from over-excessive counter-play, Limiting his skill-ceiling. Just another middle of the road killer until adjustments to his parameters.
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big NOPE. git gud at skill-checks.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161582#Comment_3161582
They’re not “leaning into it”, Mandy already commented they’re monitoring the feedback on the survivor collision hit box size. My guess is given the feedback they’ll probably eventually split the difference and increase it from its current 20 cm to about 30 or 35 cm which would be halfway between now and the PTB value of 40 or 45.
Meanwhile though you have to aim Wesker with the 20 cm value. So I’m curious if I’m right in comparing that to Deathslinger in the open.
deathslinger is way smaller. i would say deathslinger is like 10 cm. I guessing same for trickster.
I would say wesker's hitbox is about the size of direct hit clown's bottles, maybe a little more.
demo feels like he is around 30-35. Nemesis feels smaller, so I would say 25 cm but you can drag his hitbox to extend it. PTB felt closer to Artist and Huntress which I would wager being around 40 cm.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161116#Comment_3161116
Alright? He's got nothing going for him. He's basically just like Pinhead: a Killer that works against bad Survivors and is nigh useless against good ones.
They both even get punished for using their Power
a Killer that works against bad Survivors and is nigh useless against good ones.
sounds like you described like 80% of killer cast in one sentence. pinhead 1vs1 is not ideal. he has bad parameters as well that could use polishing. Pinhead really frustrating to play though. Pinhead 1vs1 chain's is like equivalent of playing a shooter and landing 100% headshots but your opponent has 50% evasion, so half the headshots do 0 damage. Wesker's dash is just situational. Its useful at loops that you don't need help on. T-L wall and 4 walls are already unsafe, meanwhile it doesn't help vs long wall pallets, classic jungle gym pallets, shack pallet and safe filler pallets like the ones that spawn in gideon meat packing plant.
Killer need ways to outplay those type of loops. not T-L wall...
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
I've been playing Wesker a bit and his Power seems genuinely useless at anything but a 4 lane or a T/L wall.
His charge time is too long, his cooldown is too long, his hit-box is too small and he can't recharge it while using.
Not to mention the fact that junk tiles are like infinites and turn him into an M1 Killer shall Wesker dare use his Power, or that he gets punished for using his Power correctly against Survivors that out-position themselves out in the open.
Guess who doesn't have any of these? Demogorgon.
Yet again, BHVR has failed in making a Demogorgon clone
i mean these were all problems in ptb besides hitbox. the hitbox was huge in ptb, now the hitbox is smaller making it possible to not hit walls but it also makes it pretty hard to hit survivors now.
they could fixed filler/junk tiles being infinities by allowing him to use his 2nd bound after vaulting. no cigar unfortunately. he's alright killer, but he could been much stronger with better values/more polish. I have gotten use out of it, but the power relies on survivor looping errors. More on survivor to mess up, not as much skill-expression for the killer to make plays with the power.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159997#Comment_3159997
If it showed the killer the gen aura it’d be kinda bad on its own. Then you’d almost need open-handed for it to get much value.
But tbh, that’s why open-handed is kinda difficult to balance, and I’m actually kinda glad that they specifically prevented this combo rather than just nerfing open-handed because it’s not OP with any other aura reading perk, but this combo would’ve been. And yeah the killer isn’t told about kindred but it’s more limited in when it CAN be active, and the killer does know exactly when that is. Plus, it punishes camping/staying near the hook so I don’t really have a problem with it.
And like you said, you can kick the gen to remove the wiretap. Just not when the gen is 30 meters away and you’d be almost certainly dropping the chase to do it.
But tbh, that’s why open-handed is kinda difficult to balance, and I’m actually kinda glad that they specifically prevented this combo rather than just nerfing open-handed
why? Isn't open handed a useless perk though? the only real practical use for open handed is iri key+blood amber and kindred. i do see kindred used as a perk but i never see open handed. I am always paranoid chasing survivors around the hook because of kindred.
i don't think open handed has particular high play-rate in my experience like i don't see perk get used post-match as killer so I don't see any problem with it. i don't think its particular good perk. personally as survivor, i find it as a wasted perk slot and it appears that other survivors agree with that sentiment. Wiretap in general will likely be underwhelming perk as it is with all of Ada's perks.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159956#Comment_3159956
The problem with 30 meters of wiretap is that the killer has no way to know it’s active, thus preventing them from mindgaming. 14 meters is close enough to the generator that the killer can disable it by kicking the gen (although that’s not necessarily always a good idea), but 30m isn’t.
With open-handed + kindred, the killer at least knows when it has a possibility to exist, and when it can’t be doing anything. They know if someone is on the hook and where the hook is, and that’s what makes it more fair imo. Wiretap doesn’t do that at all, and can also go on for up to 80 seconds. Barring perks that can temporarily freeze Entity progression, a survivor on the hook that long has already died or gone into stage 2 which isn’t ideal for the survivors anyway.
That said, it should be made more clear in-game that these perks do not work together, because it is admittedly pretty unclear right now.
I mean your not suppose to know survivor perks.... I mean i say this when survivor can see dissolution icon for killer perks and Trail of torment gives an aura reading on generator.
If you think its that huge of an issue, you could make it so that killer see highlighted blue aura on the gen, but that defeats purpose of the perk. if the survivor is not falling for any mindgames, you can deduce that it might be wiretap and you can kick the gen to get rid of it.
killer don't have any indication for kindred aura reading and i don't see anyone complaining to get kindred killer aura reading weakened.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Honestly I’m fine with it not working. 30 meters would’ve been a lot with no indication to the killer.
I’m fine with kindred + open-handed because it punishes camping. This doesn’t.
its inconsistent. it says for open handed that it increases all aura reading by 16 meters. killer aura and survivor aura perks. it should work wiretap. kindred is aura perk for survivor and killer aura's and wiretap is aura perk for killer aura.
I never heard of any killer player complain that open handed is too strong.... or wiretap for that matter.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159776#Comment_3159776
Keep claiming it does nothing when I've already seen survivors use it to prevent their teammate from going into 2nd state before the unhook.
its mostly swf only perk. requires too much coordination to be anti-camp perk.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
I've been saying this since the PTB
haha nobody ever listens. i agree with you. he has too slow of charge-up, too high cooldown on his ability and very slow dash.
I wonder what was logic behind wesker only moving at 300% m/s and demo shred moving at 500%. demo is way better wesker.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159364#Comment_3159364
Thats how nurse works though. You use the first blink to position yourself, and the second to land it. I'm saying that the current way wesker works it doesn't go for that.
i mean nurse just blinks on top of people in general and you need to predict pathing as nurse and if the survivor predicts blink's nurse location using travel-time, then you use 2nd blink to get the hit. 2nd blink is harder or easier depending on how well you do on 1st blink.
vs potato survivors, you can win with 1 blink nurse, but vs good survivors, you need two blinks to get hits.
with wesker, you use first bound to get the angle and you use 2nd bound to get the hit. you have to plan ahead. i am not sure how to describe it. its like playing blight and visualizing your bounces ahead of time with like billy-level chainsaw quick flicks on curving. Mechanically, he might be harder to play than blight for some players though i wouldn't consider him hard to play, though some people think flicking is really hard.
its just when survivors have good movement, it will be pretty easy to side-step his bound at max distances. he's like slow-moving 0 wind-up hatchet huntress throw. I wish he had dash movement speed add-on's kinda like old nurse range add-on's.
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wesker is not nurse, you use first dash to position yourself then you use 2nd dash to land it. if you want to be a good wesker, you need flick 90 degree's really quickly around the corner so the survivor has very little time to anticipate the your ability when you are across the wall.
Wesker is a lot like curving billy, he's has pretty high mechanical skill-cap though I'm not sure about his reward.
his 2nd bound has no cast time, so you can use his 2 dashes like 21-meter 1 blink nurse.if survivor doesn't know how to sidestep his ability. probably will work against low mmr survivors though i question the effectiveness against good survivors.
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wesker takes more skill to land his bound. I like the change. it makes him more skill based.
i think only problem with hitbox change is that survivor can side-step his dash because of travel time, so they should increase 2nd bound movement speed so that survivor cannot react side-step his dash at long distances. other than that, i have no complaints in regards to hitbox.
survivor should not react to killer powers, they should need to predict killer powers and win mindgames.
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@FusselTeddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159116#Comment_3159116
OMG maths isn't one of your strenghs, huh?
Blast mine stunns Killers for 4 seconds and kicking a Generator takes 1.8 seconds (2 seconds before the general Killer Buff). SO 4 + 1.8 = 5.8 or about 6 seconds. If you never kick Generators, you probably don't know how to play Killer (you sound like you play Killer, but you probably don't get many Kills due to being Gen rushed)... Yeah Ruin and other Regression Perks exist, but kicking is essential to win the game - now it's even more viable due to the instant 2.5% regression.
Dragon's Grip is not ment for Killers without mobility. You need to get back to the Gen ASAP, so it works great on Demogorgon, Wraith, Sadako, Billy, ... But not as good on Doctor, Huntress, Trapper, ... Some perks work well with some killers and some don't.
do you not know how the perk works?, you need kick gen and after you are about 50% away from kicking gen, you get stunned for 4 seconds. so you spend like 1 sec kicking gen, 4 seconds stunned then you have to rekick gen for 2 seconds and survivor makes a ton of distance for you wanting to kick gen with pop goes weasel, so now you need spend time to catch-up/find a new survivor. super annoying perk to play against as killer that punishes killer for kicking gens.
kicking gens was never worth it. It never worth it at base-kit. the only time killer kicked gens was to use pop goes weasel. I almost never kick gens. Its not worth it. 2.5% regression is pointless joke. the only time kicking gens makes any sense is when you have nothing to do as killer, which is typically in end game when 1-2 survivors are alive or 3 gens.
I only used the perk twice and it was on adept blight achievement. the perk activated a grand total of 0 times and i got adept. No killer would ever use dragon grip in serious build. this perk is complete wasted perk slot on killer for 2 games limited testing.
Its still pretty odd to weaken a survivor perk(blast mine) since I wouldn't consider this meta/gamebreaking, just annoying.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3158844#Comment_3158844
Dragons Grip actually does something tho, blast mine blinds the killer for a second it offers no help I feel.
blast mine stuns killer for 5 seconds. that's like old decisive strike. it interrupts the killer from kicking gen as well. so killer spends like 10 seconds doing nothing from trying to kick gen, the gen stunning killer for 5 seconds then killer kicking the gen. it's pretty strong. often I would work with teammates on gens then plant the mine, the killer kicks it and get stunned and my teammate gets a ton of distance for me planting that mine.
i used it when the perk came out with sb/flashbang/blastmine/bt. it was a meme-type build where 99% my sprint burst to flashbang save people from shoulder and waste killer's time with blastmine by giving my teammates a 5 sec stun on killer kicking gens.
The perk isn't ultra instant-winning by any means but I would give the perk a 4/5 in term of usability. I'd probably rank it somewhere between 10-20 perks you could use as survivor because of how much time it wastes from the killer especially back when pop goes weasel was a meta perk.
Blastmine is now risk vs reward perk though I don't think anyone will use it post-change since risk vs reward perks are usually total garbage in dbd.
dragon grip on other hand is completely useless because it has 90 second cooldown and 30 second activation window. In order to use this perk effectively, you need kick gen then sit near a gen for 30 seconds to get instant down with 2 minute cooldown. If it fails, you accomplished nothing. Its mostly meme perk that some people use with Insidious where you kick gen then you go insidious. I've seen the perk once where the wraith kicked gen and stood still for 30 seconds. Other than that, I have never seen this perk do anything.
You have to be complete rank 20 new survivor to go down by this perk. I'm sure if you look at stats for how many instant downs this perk gives in a match, its probably averages like less 1 down per match like 0.20% instant down ratio.
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Blast mine works like dragon grip for killer now. honestly both dragon grip and blast mine should not go on cooldown if the effect is not triggered.
i know the idea is risk vs reward but the risk does not meet the reward for either of these perks.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3157325#Comment_3157325
Sorry, I didn't mean the decoy would help in chase. I was pointing out that he has a significant weakness already. In theory, he could decoy in a mindset jungle gym scenario making the survivor wrong the wrong direction back into you, however.
My point about the chase weakness was that he can't commit to chases, as he'll lose a gen or two if he does. He has to succeed in his approach to catch people off guard, but that's almost impossible in many maps. A decoy would buff his approach potential.
by decoy, i thought you meant spirit's husk or those doctor illusions that stand-still. could good if you use zombie AI with illusionary killer that walks forward and lunge attacks turning the illusion into mist.
My point about the chase weakness was that he can't commit to chases, as he'll lose a gen or two if he does. He has to succeed in his approach to catch people off guard, but that's almost impossible in many maps.
well he doesn't need to commit to any chases. the maps where stalking and stealth is not favorable, its better to try get as close as possible to the survivor and just m1 them. if the survivor goes to favorable loop, you can break the pallet and then lean on an object from far away to 99% the survivor, then leave the chase.
the survivor can choose to heal but if you find them, you can complete your 99% mark and instant down them even if they heal or if they stay injured. I like to run philly and Walleye's matchbook which decreases stalk by 20% and lowers the cooldown of nightshroud by 6 seconds reducing cooldown 24 to 18 seconds. you'll know when a chase is too long if you spend 18 seconds without a hit.
An explanation of hit & run gameplay in a nutshell.
Additionally, the decoy will provide misinformation to SWFs communicating The Ghost Face's whereabouts. Additionally, he has the option to "fake" being a decoy himself (an additional mind game).
stealth killer break down vs swf because you can just follow ghostface entire match and just break him out of his ability the entire game. Calling out the position of a stealth killer is like having permanent wall hacks on the killer and this is possible because ghostface has no chase tools and cannot really contest loops.
ghostface has no mobility and does not transition out of chases in comparison to other stealth killers. you can kinda just sit around 20 meters away from ghostface and he can't really commit to the chases due to loop design in the game, nor will he ever be able stealth anyone against a swf.
the other stealth killers circumvent this problem by having mobility(dredge)+nightfall, cloaking(wraith) or mori's(Myers/Pig/Sadako). there is also chase-oriented stealth killers like deathslinger and spirit but these killer were heavily weakened. Obvious they circumvent the problem by supposedly having a strong chase.
the reason why I don't like wraith or dredge very much is that you can just counter their stealth by just healing and there is no real way that those killer can keep survivors injured. with ghostface, you don't have to care about that due to the mark mechanic. I don't know if i even consider mori-based killers stealth based more so than mori based. i mean pig has terrible stealth and the other two aren't much better. I'm not sure you can really balance stealth killer around swf. the concept of stealth relies on absence of information and high-level swf is all information. that's why stealth killer do really well vs solo and do not really perform well against strong swf unless their chase is insane(spirit).
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@RpTheHotrod said:
At higher MMR, The Ghost Face tends to be a fairly weak killer (unless you're sacrificing your perks for gen regression to counter the high repair speeds). One of his biggest weakness is that he has absolutely no chase power, and the one thing going for him, his stalking, can easily be taken away from him by the survivors. He sneaks around and all, but the majority of the maps, you can see him coming a mile away - especially with SWFs communicating where he's heading. It's also literally impossible to sneak up on anyone running the new spinechill buff (for those who don't know, SC now flat out gives a 36 meter heads up - no TR needed, no being spotted needed). However, how does one improve The Ghost Face's potential without inadvertently making him too powerful?
With most killers, the Entity somehow "blesses" them with some unnatural power. However, The Ghost Face is essentially just a dude with a knife.
Enter the decoy - a gift from the entity in the form of a false manifestation.
I'd propose the following.
On cooldown, The Ghost Face can project a double of him in the direction that he is facing. This decoy will maintain the state the killer was in (in overt mode with a terror radius, or in stealth mode). The decoy will travel forward for awhile, then will patrol. However, the decoy will not chase nor attack survivors - giving survivors a way to determine if it's a decoy or not. After a time, the decoy disappears in smoke.
This is useful for The Ghost Face, as this helps him overcome one of his biggest weaknesses on the majority of maps - approach potential. If he decoys in one direction, survivors seeing the decoy running off somewhere will be more likely to lower their guard, making The Ghost Face's real approach to them more manageable. Additionally, the decoy will provide misinformation to SWFs communicating The Ghost Face's whereabouts. Additionally, he has the option to "fake" being a decoy himself (an additional mind game).
Just wanted to throw out an idea without the typical easy way outs like teleports and such. I figured adding an additional mindgame feature would fit his character.
One of his biggest weakness is that he has absolutely no chase power
i'm not sure how giving decoy helps ghostface have a stronger chase. I would say one of his weakness is that there is no downside to being marked when nightshroud is active. If you don't get hit, the exposed does not do anything. He has no way to confirm the marks he successfully does if the survivor is effective at looping.
Its too bad ghostface does not have Wesker's virulent bound, it would give him gap-closer if he marks someone. that would improve his chase and it would give him mobility in-chase. Oh well, he already got reworked recently, so its unlikely anything about ghostface will change.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155939#Comment_3155939
Queue times are the longest they’ve been for Killers in years. Something tells me that the BT basekit buff isn’t doing much to make people want to play Survivor
kindred and windows according bvhr's stats are popular aura-reading perks, so in some sense, they're already meta for soloq. issue is that they cost perks slots which makes swf still stronger then soloq because of -2 perk slots.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Instasaw really wasn't fun at all. You didn't curve with it generally, it was mostly just backrevs.
it wasn't just for backrev. it allowed him to chainsaw feather at pallets and it allowed him to dynamically curve around loop. Windows were also less of hard-counter towards his power. there would be more killer variety if some killer changes were reverted like billy, freddy and slinger.
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@Seraphor said:
Movement speed isn't based on how 'good' their power is in a chase or a loop, it's based on their mobility and map presence.
Hag can teleport.
Spirit can phase.
Huntress can hit from range.
Artist, while her power has range, cannot reliably injure at range. She's in the same ballpark as Pyramid Head.
hag's mobility is among worst in the game though. she is 110% m/s and she spends 2 seconds every time to place traps. Imagine pausing with other killers for 2 seconds randomly every single chase. Hag's traversal and map movement is unlike any other killer because most killers usually go from point A to point B in straight lines and then you have that zig zag's her pathing to place traps for what most people call her web.
that's why almost all hag are forced to camp 1 area because...... they literally have no movement speed and spend 1/4 of the game walking around placing traps. Factor in that her teleportation has limited range. that definitely looks like recipe for killer go for 12 hooks. /s
Trapper has same problem and he has 2nd worst map pressure in the game after hag. He has to spend detours picking-up traps then he has to spend 2.5 second setting up traps which are super easy to spot and disarm. You can barely use them in the chase. Even factoring in that he moves at 115% and that his traps instant down, He's still ineffective at the chase in retrospect. Wow.... I wonder why trapper just camp basement and play territorial. Surely his kit is made for 12 hook just like hag /s.
if you look at modern killers like freddy, artist, pyramid head, even demo. they all move at 115% and can use their abilities in chase. Demo has mobility through portals, move at 115% and has chasing ability. pyramid head has trails that force survivor go into them and has ranged ability. freddy has snare traps and tp mobility. Artist has bird-traps that can be fired as projectile. shows how little difference 5% movement speed does in the game and how much killer-power strength+perk synergy matters over anything else.
I would say killer that have movement speed penalties have movement speed penalties because their counter-play in the chase is influenced by distance between survivor and killer. For example, juking ranged projectiles at further distances is easier then pointblank and further distance means that Line of sight counter-play is more prominent hence why huntress/trickster/deathslinger are all 110% m/s. Back when spirit was strong, She was 110% because being slower meant that she needed to use her yamako ability to catch-up the survivor while holding-w and it gave sense of time-pressure for spirit to track the survivor while survivor mask their movement. well now a days, you can just loop her ability. Nurse's entire counter is based off hold-w and travel distance on blinks so this needs no introduction to why she moves at 96%.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3154729#Comment_3154729
Sure, and that's why I said it would presumably be something where passive build up is slower than holding a tape and also slower than gaining a full stack from a teleport. Sadako would be rewarded to actively engaging with the survivors both in keeping them from removing stacks and by adding stacks from teleporting near them compared to passively doing neither.
Sadako would be rewarded to actively engaging with the survivors both in keeping them from removing stacks and by adding stacks from teleporting near them compared to passively doing neither.
that is sort of my point in both posts. You don't need to interact with the survivor with passive condemn. It works regardless whether you interact with the survivor or not. A close comparison is freddy dream world. You will enter dream world regardless if you do not see freddy for the entire game or get chased the entire game by him, thus my point that you will get rewarded with mori's without doing anything.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3154314#Comment_3154314
Sadako wouldn't be rewarded with a kill for "doing nothing". Unless she's actually chasing and pressuring survivors they can easily deal with a slow build up of Condemned well before it reaches critical mass.
Sadako wouldn't be rewarded with a kill for "doing nothing"
what I mean to say is that my win condition with sadako is being completed automatically without any input from the player using sadako. active build-up is more engaging then passive guaranteed build-up. I think that's largely why you sometimes get posts in regards to Tombstone piece Myer's and pig head-pop because it doesn't feel like you earn a mori. It feels more like mori itself is automatic passive ability. I like her mori system because it requires the most input out of the killer player to get it to activate despite it not being too effective overall.
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@dugman said:
Sadako isn’t top tier but I don’t think she needs more than a slight buff. The one I’d push for is removing her Lullaby, I’m not sure why they made her the only Stealth killer that has a Lullaby. Get rid of that and her Stealth improves which goes a ways toward shortening her time between hits.
The other change might be that once you are Condemned your timer builds up automatically regardless of whether or not you have a tape. Right now there’s not much incentive to carry a tape at all, a lot of survivors just ignore the tapes unless they happen to have built up a lot of stacks already. If the Condemned built up slowly over time though they would be compelled to periodically use the tape or risk getting to full.
I don't like the idea of the killer getting rewarded by mori's for doing nothing. The condemn passive build up on the tapes is designed so that you cannot hog the tape for the entire match. Its suppose to be urgency to go to a TV when picking up a tape. its there to prevent survivors per-emptively picking up a tape and walking around the entire match with the tape. Your not suppose to be able to pick up a tape, do full gen, unhook people, heal people and then drop the tape off at your convenience. Picking up a tape is suppose to be a high-pressure situation where your trying to get a tv before you get mori by sadako. Its just these high pressure situations are rarely occuring in her base-kit thus there is no need to interact with her TV's currently.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3153757#Comment_3153757
Kinship is once per a game and requires other survivors to know you have the perk.
You do not have to coordinate at all to use reassurance and it's a perk you can use more than once.
I did want to give reassurance a try but after ptb changes, I'm not going to bother using it. too underwhelming.
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@FlyTyTi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3153106#Comment_3153106
Good comment, but I think it is very high hit & run pressure, a team without med kit and/or boon can't counter this. And hit&run (or teleport) gameplay is a little boring to everyone in the match. Instead of we can lower TV's cooldown and give 1 condemn when the survivor fell.
why wouldn't the survivors be able to counter it? She has lullaby of 24 meters and TV have directional audio cue when a tv is used. her gameplay is based off hit & run. Her condemn build up is a bit too slow in general and could use a little bit of an improvement. hit & run is not boring. it is unique gameplay that is seldom utilized by killer-players.
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@Reinami said:
Either:
- Fix zombies to actually be useful, half the time they don't even walk toward the survivor. Make them move a little faster. Improve the AI so that they actually walk towards the survivors. Maybe even that they just always know where a survivor is and always walk toward the nearest one. Create a system that will respawn them if they get stuck for too long.
Or
- Remove the zombies entirely, make his tentacle injure even when not infected, make being infected just cause a hinder status effect, increase the number of vaccines available, and let them be used twice (like wesker)
Or
- Make it so survivors don't get a sprint burst when getting infected.
no speed boost on infection and tentacle applying infection and health-state loss is no brainer.
an idea i had for zombies to be more useful is to give the zombies a lunging attack if your infected that can activate in 6 meters. i think it would have good synergy with his movement speed zombies add-on's and it would reward nemesis play for activate infecting the entire team. zombies will be real threat if your infected.
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@Crowman said:
Changing reassurance back to it's non-healthy form just because you don't like camping is not healthy for the game.
Hooks are a form of pressure. Survivors should never have a tool that can indefinitely extend that pressure. The change form is perfectly fair.
they killed the perk due to all complaining. kinship/camaraderie works in 16 meters and it lasts for 34 seconds once per struggle state and nobody really uses it. I do not think I have seen that perk get used at all. Could been an interesting perk to see killer leave hook for once.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3153016#Comment_3153016
Anytime Ghost Face injures you, the stalk progress will reset
they really should remove that. its annoying that you lose stalk progress for m1. imagine myer's loses evil within 2 progress for m1 a survivor.
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I'd just make her basic attacks add 1 condemn stack and see how it plays out. I think sadako is somewhat under-rated with add-on against soloq. I think I'll use a famous quote, they aren't seeing her hidden potential.
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definitely some strange takes..... hag, plague, pyramid head and blight are easily most useful killers base-kit. Myers, sadako and clown genuinely feel awful to play without add-on.
the only killers that i play add-on less are freddy and nemesis because.... well add-on do nothing anyway.
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he is 110% m/s because of Instant scope and low terror radius. Oh wait!
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3152630#Comment_3152630
No. Pink is good the way it is. It helps killer chase survivor. Yellow helps mindgame some loops without breaking the pallet, but risking actually helping said survivor if done incorrectly.
Buffing yellow bottle effect would mean more loops would be playable, but there would be even higher risk that survivor gets away. That is good tradeoff and actually make clown more skillfull. As a sidenote - it might actually make it worth to use yellow bottles to move on the map
Yellow helps mindgame some loops without breaking the pallet, but risking actually helping said survivor if done incorrectly.
Survivor can just leave loops before gas activates and it makes you waste bottles. that's why a common suggestion on clown ends up being that he should have more ammo so he can "stop" wasting bottles when actual problem is the killer having no skill-cap over the ability.
the way current yellow bottle feels intended be used is when a survivor pre-drops a pallet, you can throw purple bottle at the survivor as they drop a pallet, switch bottles, then throw yellow bottle at the pallet and break it. I don't know, its just weird, feels like they design the bottles to be used for pallet zoning over playful pallet play with survivor speed boost.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3152478#Comment_3152478
Yellow bottles are the only thing making his kit at least a little bit skill-based, because it creates gamble - if you use it wrong, you will boost survivor. Removing this aspect means you are creating "dead stupid killer". Meaning he can't be strong against good survivors, because it would be very boring for the game.
If anything, I would buff clown by buffing yellow bottle effect (which creates higher risk/reward scenario).
yellow bottles already have a strong effect. They are high-reward as is. you just need to time speed boost at the correct times to get value of it the bottles. The problem is that activation period disables your ability to time speed boosts at the precise correct time. they don't need more reward. the effect is already really good.
buffing the survivor movement speed is not a gamble. its a survivor power. you might as well make it that pink bottles hindered the clown by 15% if he clown walks through them while your at it. Surely that will make him ultra-high reward/ultra high risk. wink wink
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one of the killer idea's i had was a killer that falls through the floor like creating whirl pool on the floor then comes out of the whirlpool through the floor.
it would kinda look Pinhead's mori where you see floor-universe at the bottom, the killer jump's through it(dives through the floor) and exits at another location.
I thought it would be cool idea if it was trapping-based killer. like you set a trap on the floor, the survivor triggers it and you can press the active ability button to dive into the floor, if you jump out and hit the survivor(diving attack) then you instant down them, putting them into the dying state.
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he only needs his yellow bottle to be instant and the yellow bottle to not give 10% speed to the survivor. 10% speed is 5x stronger then dark theory perk....
if you want more ammo to use bottles, use cheap gin bottle add-on or soda add-on. Cheap gin gives you 6 bottles so you can use 3 pink/3 yellow and soda gives +1 for 3 pink/2 yellow or any combination of pink/yellow.
@DarkSkysz said:
The fact that clown can move at 115% while having access to a strong ranged attack is more than enough to make him opressive in chases...
One bottle and you are already 30% faster than the survivor. Can increase it to 40% with an extra yellow bottle.
do you want him to be 110% m/s,,,,? whats the point of slowing survivor down if your slower then every other base m/s killer?
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3149353#Comment_3149353
See, on big maps like Eyrie of Crow, I would agree. Rancid Arbattoir is one of the smallest maps in the game, so the higher amount of safe pallets are not a big deal.
3:12 - OP could have easily gotten a hit their with a lunge.
3:33 - OP outmindgamed the Kate, just to then let her get to the pallet for free. That was a 100% guaranteed down.
4:36 - long wall pallet misplayed clearly. They could have clearly gotten a hit there.
And these 3 examples are justregarding potential hits at those pallet loops, and nothing else. No talk about map pressure and stuff for example.
Also, Pig is an M1 killer. Most killers don't struggle with these pallets nearly as much. This is why M1 killers are generally considered too weak. But that doesn't necessarily have to be because they are too weak in chase, but instead because the rest of their basekit just doesn't make up for the lack of their chase power.
Too many safe pallets are not good. Normally. I do agree with that. However, there are maps with more safe pallets than Rancid Arbattoir, and Rancid Arbattoir makes up for the safe pallet loops with it's very small size.
Farm maps in general are a bit problematic, because they have far more safe tiles than many other map realms. But Rancid Arbattoir really isn't a problem.
i don't think map size contributes very much to killer's problems. usually, big maps just exaggerate holding-w before the chase and gen spread where getting into a chase takes longer due to walking distances. sure it plays factor but nowhere near as the pallet problem.
I didn't want to fully critique the gameplay, though i couldn't help myself on first account. i don't think pig is alone. take any of low-tier killers that are m1 centric and they have same problem. Trapper, Wraith, Sadako, Ghostface, Myers, Legion and the killer that have chase powers.... 90% of them, you can just outplay as survivor rendering the power ineffective. Like you think Wesker is going to be having different results vs these pallets when dropped? news flash, it's going to be similar for him. Farm maps is like worst realm for killer, racid included. Safe pallets are not good game for design for killer. they're amazing for survivor because the game plays itself.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151512#Comment_3151512
I didn’t say you need Brutal Strength to create dead zones, I said Brutal Strength helps you better take advantage of dead zones you’ve created.
i think brutal strength is largely placebo perk that feels good but doesn't do much against strong loopers. big noobstomp perk.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151011#Comment_3151011
Actually Brutal Strength is a somewhat underrated perk, by the mid game once you’ve destroyed some pallets you’ve begun to create dead zones and Brutal Strength allows you to get the survivor to the side of it facing a deader area, break it, and they will have a harder time reaching safety before you catch back up because that small amount of time saved kicking turns into a few seconds saved in that second leg of he chase. It’s in the same vein you don’t need a large lunge extension for it to make a difference in getting hits a few times a match because it turns close calls into just hits.
Also note that because if the lunge distance increase is too low the perk would be too weak and if it’s too large it would be too strong there is mathematically a range in the middle of reasonable settings. So there is an X such that “Increases lunge distance +X%” as the full perk description is reasonable, even if that reasonable people might differ on where exactly that number lies.
you create deadzones without brutal strength. brutal strength is zoning perk for very specific pallets in the corner. Against most pallets. the killer breaking the pallet stills get you to next loop. I'm not sure how the perk is underrated if it doesn't impact 90% of the pallets on the map.
I don't get how a 1vs1 perk could be too strong. isn't the killer suppose to be dominate in the chase? 30% would be around 1 extra meter of distance. that is like 1/4th of old dead hard for distance. I'm aiming the perk to grant around 4 extra meters of distance which should be around old dead hard for distance for killer. I feel like 1 meter of extra distance wouldn't be enough for most of really long pallets.
if you played wesker in PTB, he had a bug where he moved super fast and it increased his lunge velocity by a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZPyAMaXgMMit wouldn't be as crazy as this. this is like.... 500% lunge velocity which is like.... 10 dead hard's in straight line. the perk would be something like half of 1 old dead hard extra for killer. it would help make m1 killers more threatening in a chase.
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@SuzuKR said:
Ah yes, a split second of a flashlight should immediately hard counter a killer’s entire power who literally cannot do anything without their power as a 3.85m/s. What could possibly go wrong?
cough cough wraith. flashlight already prevent nurse from being able to charge blinks. not sure why OP wants to buff it. instantly lightburning a nurse during her charging of blink would be pretty annoying.
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@Murgleïs said:
Trickster is trash too bestie. They both need buffs.
haha true. poor trickster
slinger just need revert. issue is that casual survivor mains say instant scope and low tr is unfair! so good luck. he's doomed.
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@AnchorTea said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OBFJ52BZLBZ1/new-store-nurse.png
... and that's why this change can't exist...
its hex perk. you can disable it. I don't think nurse needs this perk because the nurse gets hits without the perk. The perk lower's the nurse's skill-ceiling because you do not need to be as precise to land the blink hit, but casual nurses according to bvhr had somewhere between 40-44% kill-rate. I'm not sure if I would be concerned if low mmr nurse uses a perk like this given their performance-level. A stronger nurse would be impossible to beat in a chase though I'm not sure how much different it is compare to current nurse with add-on's.
@dugman said:
Heck, just make it something like 10%/20%/30% longer lunge distance period, No hex, no tokens, just a flat bonus. Why complicate it?
P.S. “But this would be a good perk for Nurse!” So what? Why are we pandering to try and balance around Nurse who’s a mechanical aberration? If Nurse is the sole reason various things can’t be in the game then maybe it’s time to consider revamping her so, for example, her attacks are special attacks and not basic ones.
Same reason why brutal strength doesn't do enough. a small number will not have enough of an impact on overall outcome of the loop. I would wager that only killer that might get use out of that version is Wraith coming out of cloak.
I really wish there was more killer variety when playing survivor at the higher-level. its boring going against same killers over and over. perhaps more variety would occur as a result of the hex perk.
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@Regulus47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150481#Comment_3150481
Then I'm sure you won't mind going against a 4 man beamer squad with a Meat Plant or Garden of Joy offering with meta perks and comms every single game, then.
Yes, it's part of the game. So were 0 hook moris and instagen BNPs. Doesn't mean they should stay that way.
I don't like losing as killer because of god pallets and safe pallets. sorry!
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make the perk only affect healing. you shouldn't be healing against legion in general other than specific circumstances and plague gets no value out of the perk. survivor don't seem to like it when the killer slows gens. so the perk can now encourage you to rush gens faster by discouraging you to heal.