Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3149452#Comment_3149452
That's the thing though, the two perks in question made it so you could make to an exit gate no matter where you were and there wasn't much most killers could do about it. Yeah some people would use DS to be annoying in the gate itself, but many times when I used to run the perk once we got to endgame I knew I could basically always escape if someone unhooked me because the killer can't leave me slugged for a whole minute if I was close enough to a gate. I wasn't entitled to those escapes, DS just handed me them.
It's not so much that camping and tunnelling doesn't exist in the endgame, more so the point of those 2 strats is to get rid of a survivor early on in the match to make it a 3v1 and thus a way easier match to win. If endgame happens (and that was your playstyle) then you've failed at doing that and are essentially in damage control mode
DS/OTR in endgame is kinda like a lose-more situation now that I think of it, like if you're already losing - getting hit with these 2 perks in the endgame just makes you lose even harder
If endgame happens then you've failed at doing that and are essentially in damage control mode
Killers shouldn't have a damage control mode. they've already essentially lost when they hit end game when most of the team is alive.
Survivors used to have damage control mode. that damage control mode was Old keys and hatch.
DS/OTR in endgame is kinda like a lose-more situation now that I think of it,
The end game in general for DBD is suppose to lose more or win-more situation depending which side is in the advantage. for survivor, when 1 survivor is remaining, when killer closes the hatch, the end game timer is lose-more situation for survivor in most cases because the killer is suppose to win. the odds of opening exit gate are not favourable for the survivor.
DS/OTR in end game is the survivor version of end game-timer for killer. your expected to not get any kills when all 4 survivors are alive, though camping hooks in the end game for many killers is quite strong that the killer still gets kills even though they've lost and the survivor is supposedly in the advantage. I think large reason why killer have large average kill statistic is because killer doesn't really lose, instead they draw(get 2 kills) when they lose and win hard when they win due how end game is structured against the survivor when the survivor loses.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3149007#Comment_3149007
DS and OTR being disabled in the endgame is why I believe the perks are now designed to make them for early to mid game use. It's not as if all perks stop working in the endgame, just the two main specifically designed 'anti-tunnel' perks. BHVRs always said they don't want to punish camping and tunnelling but rather heavily deincentivize it and like I said I think if you make it to endgame, you haven't really been tunnelled too hard and have had a chance to actually play the match. That's my logic at least
Obviously, that's assuming the Killer didn't just get ran for 5 gens or something
If all perks stopped working in the endgame period I would agree with you though. Like if exhaustion perks for example stopped working during endgame I'd say that's kinda dumb
you haven't really been tunnelled too hard and have had a chance to actually play the match.
DS and OTR being disabled in the endgame is why I believe the perks are now designed to make them for early to mid game use.
Getting to end game does not mean you did not get tunneled. it mean the killer failed to kill the survivors before you finished your objective. tunneling and camping can occur at all points of the game. I see no reason for perks to turn off. the survivor earned their escape if they made to exit gate. Its just that certain survivors have a bit too big of ego and generally act toxic when they escape the killer. DS at exit gates was mostly toxic power-trip.
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@itsquiet27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3149292#Comment_3149292
and i've mentioned this issue ISNT only coldwind. A LOT of the maps are like this when you play as killer, Did you forget badham, red forest? and many more? Don't just point out coldwind
i wouldn't say its maps themselves. the maps look beautiful. its more of the pallets. too many safe pallets that force killer to break pallet because their ability doesn't help them in the chase/outplay survivors.
just looking at your video, go and check how many pallets you were forced to break as killer on that map
0:32 - jungle gym pallet
2:56 - jungle gym pallet ->kate made movement error that you could got a hit on.
3:12 - cow loop pallet
3:33 - shack pallet
3:57 -safe filler pallet
4:36 -long wall pallet.
5:02 - safe filler pallet
5:24 - first unsafe pallet.
8:00 -long wall pallet
you had to break 8 pallets and you got to play 1 pallet. i think map had like ~3 more pallets. killers are suppose to use their ability to get downs at the pallets.... but pig ambush dash is .... not very good for any of those safe loops. Its mostly similar for all other maps. you have to break 80% of pallets and like 20% are pallets that killer gets gameplay at. Its why 10% pallet breaking speed doesn't do much since you can still chain all these loops and the killer lacks gameplay at them.
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@Brokenbones said:
From my POV the argument boils down to something like this:
Anti tunnel perks like DS and OTR are there to keep a survivor from being killed too quickly in the early and midgame. I feel if a survivor reaches endgame, then they weren't exactly tunnelled too hard. These perks being disabled in the endgame stops situations where the killer had no real recourse for dealing with that survivor. You know that already def, but it's worth saying again.
I think it's less about free kills and more so about making it easier for the Killer to salvage what I would imagine is a losing game for them. Obviously that's not always the case, you can make it to endgame and still be screwed then lose because your perks don't work but - yeah.
Killer don't deserve free kills, but tunnelling or camping in the endgame is essentially the killer's main goal since all gens are gone and defending gates is basically impossible.
That's how I see it, at least - hopefully that makes sense
Anti tunnel perks like DS and OTR are there to keep a survivor from being killed too quickly in the early and midgame.
Anti-tunnel perks like DS and OTR are there to keep survivors alive in general. Throughout entire game. that's why these perks are as good as they are. Disabling them in end game is giving killer free kills.
why is this problematic? It means killer do not need be balanced around hooks, winning chases and map presence. After all, why bother with all that when the killers get 1-2k on average by just camping hooks in the end game assuming killer excels at camping. You might as well just put NOED as base-kit perk so that every killer gets free kills equally in end game.
@KayTwoAyy said:
I don't think people look enough at the macro gameplay when making comments and critiques regarding a perk's strength--be it for killer or survivor.
A killer doesn't "lose the game" when they eat DS at the exit gate.
They lost the game when they failed to find a survivor before the first gen popped. They lost the game when they failed to protect themself against 3 flashlight saves. They lost the game when they left their 3-gen and chased Claudette across the map for 2 whole minutes.
Likewise, a survivor doesn't "lose the game" when No Way Out activates, and the killer downs them with NOED.
They lost the game when they neglected to keep a mental note of which perks a killer is using. They lost the game when they unhooked their teammate before the killer even had time to walk away. They lost the game when they let their teammate go to second stage, so they could self-care in the corner.
The results of a trial are the cumulation of decisions we make over the course of that trial.
If you make too many mistakes, at a certain point you need to face the music. That "lose/lose" scenario is one of your own creation--you just have to own that and learn from it.
well written post.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147798#Comment_3147798
It should not get repair speeds anyway. Repair speeds are already fast as it is, and this would essentially give everyone super fast repair speeds for most of the match. Killer injures a survivor? They run off to get a heal anyway, then poof back to super repair speeds again. It would effectively givr super repair speeds in the match when they would be repairing anyway. Killers would have to constantly damage everyone they can asap even if just getting healed from an unhook, otherwise gens will be flying faster than they already are. There wre plenty of times when playing killer I would leave a survivor alone because they were recently hooked. If I knew them being fully healed means someone has buffed their repair speeds, I'd be shooting myself in the foot taking it easy on then.
That's even worst for killers like ghost face who have to build up stalking for kills. Now they would be shooting themselves in the foot for letting any survivor get away for the sake of building stalking.
A never expiring repair speed buff when survivors would actually be repairing would be too powerful.
what do you mean most of the match, its 35 seconds and you need heal before bonus kicks in. the old perk was fine and did not need any changes. it was worse deju vu, deja vu is 5% for 60 seconds. better than new was for 35 seconds with healing condition. hope the perk gets revert similar to MoM. bad change.
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@Chaellooo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147843#Comment_3147843
bruh demo's shred only works in a straight line as well and cannot be curved, he isn't going to get countered by dropping pallets as you get injured if you camp a pallet or a window, you also get injured if wesker charges at you mid-vault. wesker's infection is actually good compared to nemesis t virus. You get hindered and you basically have Exposed status effect
demo's shred is faster(0.65) and demo has way more walking movement speed during his shred. it makes big difference against better loopers that hug corners tightly. Demo is way better at punishing windows then compare to Wesker. A good demo is pretty intimating in 1vs1, he just kinda loses the pallet break vs gen speed game to be strong. Wesker ability is just too slow m/s to get right angles, too much cast time and he doesn't really got much play at dropped pallets. he can vault them, but it kicks him out of his ability which slows him down and allows survivors to hug corners tightly to make full circle back to the pallet. I do agree his infection is excellent 4vs1.
I think wesker would have potential to top 5 killer if they gave him more impactful add-ons and allowed his 2nd bound to be used after a vault. sadly the potential did not occur and he turned out to be safe killer.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147476#Comment_3147476
These are the same changes that demo got and he's like c or b teir
yeah he had so much potential. sadly, he's just going get counter by dropping pallets and using line of sight between loops because his dash only works in straight line and cannot be curved in any shape or form with long charge time. He also still get punished for using his mobility.
the other people like dug and onedemo are just arguing about his placements. personally I think demo is better at the chase because his shred has lower start-up, but wesker has better 4vs1 then demo because his infection forces survivors to open crate which takes 5 seconds, use spray, which takes 5 seconds, so he is some minor 4vs1 because of how dangerous his infection is. survivor can't ignore it, but at the same time, they have a ton of sprays to never really be infected.
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@Rick3543 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/342549/wesker-buffs-lets-gooooo
He isn't strong at all, and he got nerfed pretty badly overall for his out-in-the-open gameplay. I imagine like Demo, itll be impossible to hit a survivor at range with bound now.
He needed 3 charges, less charge time, and better addons. He still has no anti-loop at all, and no map pressure. He is going to be a total crap killer on level of trapper in high rank games. A noob stomper maybe, but nothing fun when you are good at the game.
very sad, indeed. they only changed him because they need sell him. half of his yellow add-on is base-kit but he still need use it and it still doesn't do enough for help him.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I love how they nerfed Reassurance at the sobs of the facecampers, so instead of removing the abusable part they removed the anti-facecamp part, and yet then decided to make Better Than New one of the best perks in the game instead. Make it make sense.
that's nerf because they removed repair speed which was main appeal of a perk. the idea was that you heal a survivor and they hop on gen with you. reassurance is another camaraderie/kinship 2.0.
Borrow time 10 seconds and 10% haste. that buff is insane. now we don't need to ever use BT. so survivor have got 5 perks.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146955#Comment_3146955
I'm talking about the potential. Make it 3 survivors finish 3 gens in 45s when one survivor can manage a 30 second chase to make it sound more realistic. And you miss my point. The post I quoted from you started like you wanted to say "Prove can do the same" which is not comparable at all. That's what my response was about. Different conditions, different skill requirement, different potential.
And what do you mean with "2 survivors is not requirement"? There is no consistent bonus if people dont join you on gens. Btw Prove gives you a nerf reduction on coop gens, you are still more effective when both survivors work on different gens regarding total gen progress. Prove/coop only allows you to finish a gen early enough to give the killer less chance to interrupt you with scourge hooks or pop etc. but in the end Prove just adds a few seconds to that scenario, not 45 seconds that Hyperfocus + Stakeout can give you. (btw I made a mistake, 53 seconds is the coop time without Prove, with prove it takes 46 seconds, so Prove actually saves you 7 seconds when two survivors work on the gen from 0 to 100)
and the comparison I picked was to show that the playerbase changed. During double window (not pallet) shack time, people were learning the game and couldnt abuse it. You could as some videos show, but nearly noone thought about it. During old Hex: Ruin, people were not consistently going for great skill checks, although there were already a few streamers that always hit like the first pixel of the success zone even when not going against Ruin. I'm not exaggerating, I'm just saying the playerbase changes, so you cant compare Hyperfocus with old Ruin. These are two different "ages".
I'm not exaggerating, I'm just saying the playerbase changes, so you cant compare Hyperfocus with old Ruin. These are two different "ages".
DBD is the same game. if anything there is less of incentive to go for great skill-checks because they have little relevance on impact on the match. that's largely why survivor is so strong because every single survivor is as threatening as another. at least when it comes to do generators. Hyperfocus is self-imposed ruin but instead of the perk hurting when you fail, the perk does opposite, it rewards you for success. the punishment itself is failing to use the perk. There is no "different ages".
what do you mean with "2 survivors is not requirement"?
exactly what it sounds like. there is no reason why 3 survivor are not always glued to generator on every second that the killer in a chase. the strength of the perk is that prove thyself doesn't require you to go out of your way to get value out of it. it just automatically happens by the product of survivor gameplay. the way you get fast generators is by having high-up time on gens and this perk increases your team's efficiency through up-time.
you are still more effective when both survivors work on different gens regarding total gen progress.
why bother running to gens? Why should you spend 20 second running to gens when you can spend 20 seconds on generator themselves with teammates. Why bother doing split gen progress such that killer can regress it when you can just do centralize generators at the start of the match and then force killer to walk to each gen by abusing large map design? I'm sure you'll love it when your playing killer on Eyrie crows and you have 1 gen on each corner of the map spending 30 seconds to walk to each gen to get into next chase as m1 legion. Why should learn to loop for longer then 53 seconds to finish 1 gen when you can learn to loop for only 46 seconds? It means you can just fail at every chase and still escape regardless even if the killer chases are near instant. Its funny that you mention 30 second chases because prove thyself already does that through most basic team-play elements for survivor. If the killer fails any individual chase drastically past 30 seconds, you likely to lose more then 2-3 gen and most likely entire match as killer.
Hyperfocus also increases your team overall efficiency by increasing your individual efficiency but its way harder to get value of in comparison to latter easier option. it has higher potential but most player are unlikely to hit it. If it was so easy to hit it, then you would be fine having old-base kit ruin as base mechanic for survivor for doing gens.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146867#Comment_3146867
Prove requires a second survivor and requires 53 seconds, Hyperfocus can make 4 survivors finish 4 gens in 45 seconds. That's a bit of a difference. And Hex Ruin is loooong ago, that was a different playerbase. Might be that there are more survivors percentually that don't regularly hit great skillchecks, but in total numbers there are also more survivors that can compared to back then. What you do would be like comparing the current game to old double window shack with no entity blockers and no mid vaults
your statemate makes it sound like killer is afk entire match. 4 gens in 45 seconds. I don't think i need to go anymore in detail for what is wrong with this statement. as for prove thyself, 2 survivors is not requirement, its given and its extremely consistent bonus increases effective up-time of entire team. as for ruin statement, there were no double window shack pallets during old hex:ruin's time. your exaggerating how long ago it was. I'm just saying that skill-cap of the perk is higher then you would perceive.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146867#Comment_3146867
That's why Ohm was using it in combination with Stakeout....Yes he missed skill checks that reset it but he also was getting some back as greats which continued the bonus.
Also think of it this way, sometimes the game doesn't like to give skill checks. I had a Gen that I got to 50% with skill checks but after never got a single one. So if I made my last two skill checks as greats or if I had full stack of Stakeout and all the Skill checks were greats then I would have a free ride to a full Gen without worry of losing the bonus.
i am saying he was missing checks without stake out tokens and resetting the bonus. stake out and hyperfocus have this anti-synergy where you need be next to the killer to get tokens while doing gens but being next to the killer just interrupts you resetting hyper focus. I like that it works that way because stake out is a perk that lower's the perk skill-ceiling so worse player won't be able to use the perk while better players will learn to hit raw skill-checks to get value out of the perk. it means you won't see the perk very much but when you do see it, you'll different notice it unlike prove thyself.... where you notice it every game...
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146654#Comment_3146654
Hyper focus is a powerful perk especially if you combined it with the one perk from the pig dlc that turns good skill checks into greats. I watched Ohmwrecker using that combo and got a Gen done in about 40 secs 35 secs if someone had Prove they self on the Gen as well and that's not with tool boxes
you can do gens in 45 seconds with prove thyself with no skill-check required. the average player using hyper focus is more likely to blow up gens then get actual progress from that perk. thinking about old hex:ruin and how many survivor at that time were just running around entire map looking for hex:ruin or failing consecutive skill-checks that was regressing gens for free. that perk made half of your survivor teammates completely useless. in those days, I remember having to do 5 generator solo while ruin staying up the entire game. what soloq experience....that was. Hyper focus is high skill perk that requires you be uninterrupted to on gen to get value out of it. the yd vod for ohmwrecker was him getting interrupted entire game and he was missing skill-checks which reset the perk. Like @OrangeBear said, its mostly fun meme perk.
i think some people might use it with self-care because it increases healing speed of self-care and you can 99% your healing with this is not happening sort of how some players 99% resilience. hyper focus might make self-care less of meme perk and more of serious healing option.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146623#Comment_3146623
The difference is Recharge doesn’t alter her counterplay. It means she blinks more frequently. Torn Bookmark alters the counterplay and makes avoiding blink hits virtually impossible. It is fundamentally bad design.
nurse's recharge does alter her counter-play which is holding-w. it makes missing blinks less punishing and gives survivor less distance between each blink. an easy to understand this is facing nurse in midwich elementary school hallways base-kit nurse vs double recharge nurse. I'll get to range in a moment.
nurse design in such a way where when you miss blink, your power goes on cooldown and since nurse is slower than survivor, you get set amount of x distance against nurse. let's just say its 15 meters. using her travel time, charge time, look angle in which you described to me in another post, you use these methods to determine nurse's blink destination and if you predict blink destination correctly on first blink, you generally have very good odds to dodge 2nd blink because nurse can over-blink or under-blink on first blink making her not have enough range for 2nd blink to hit you. if you face midwich elementary school hallway nurse with no add-ons, you can essentially loop nurse indefinitely as long your good enough to make right blink location predictions. Thanks to circular nature of hallways, you will never get corner by nurse on the map therefore you will always have fixed blink distances.
all that stuff changes with recharge and range. with recharge, since nurse gets her blinks faster, you have less time to shift-w so instead of making 15 meters of fixed distance, it becomes like 10-12 meters of fixed distance. Since survivor is closer to you now, you have to charge your blink for less, your travel time is less since your closer and survivor has lacks wiggle room to predict nurse blink locations. Range does something similar, it makes her travel-time shorter by 50%, so essentially 15 meters become more like 10 meters in term of actual distance which once again takes away wiggle room for survivor to parry blinks.
3 blink is kinda like old legion that took 5 hits to get a down. if survivor predicts first blink location and then parry 2nd blink from not enough distance, the 3rd blink will grant the hit that you otherwise wouldn't get. its that using 3 blinks on every chase is not time efficient for nurse. it takes too long for blinks to recharge meaning that its very easy for survivor to push gens and win from their extreme time efficiency on gens even if nurse gets guaranteed downs. I would describe 3 blink nurse similar to old dead hard, its basically 2nd chance to rectify misplay for nurse at the expense of having time-inefficient downs. i would say 3 blink add-on alone is weak/ineffective, but 3 blink with recharge makes it a lot stronger.
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@The_BiggCheeze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146606#Comment_3146606
...Imma be real honest with you, I didn't even know about the injured requirement. That is news to me... Oops
best way to do challenge is to run grey med-kit with abnormal dressing and skill-check increase add-on with build to last. when one of your teammates is in chase, healing with med-kit while failing every skill-check then use build to last to refill the med-kit 2-3 times.
The healing is as fast as running self-care. there you go, you finished challenge in under 1 minute.
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@SuzuKR said:
Her basekit is perfect. Recharge is strong but balanced. Range/+1 blink shouldn’t exist.
The rest are meme-level at best.
you realize 3 blink is meme add-on right? just running 3 blink and no other add-on is downright terrible. against strong team, having your blinks have absurdly long cooldown is worse then base-kit nurse. recharge add-ons are infinitive stronger then 3 blink. In fact recharge makes 3 blink relevant. recharge add-on do a lot for nurse. If recharge got removed for nurse, nurse would be significantly weaker.
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@BottomPolice said:
I know getting flashlight saves are very satisfying to get but, I think a lot of survivors overestimate flashlights and constantly go for saves. I can’t deny that flashlights are the most busted survivor item against a new killer but decent killers can easily counter flashlight saves just by looking at a wall. I’m not saying flashlights are bad or anything, because it definitely has its moments, especially if you’re in a swf but I think it’s overhyped because of content creators.
strength of flashlight is not their ability save a survivor. its their ability to stall the killer from doing his hooking objective. its threat of saving another survivor.that makes flashlights strong. it forces killer to slug. for example if you stall killer for 20 seconds where they cannot pick up the survivor under a pallet because your threatening to flashlight save/pallet save, it gives your team more time to do generators.
flashlights are a lot stronger in swf because swf can use power struggle+flip flop. with 4 power struggle flip flop flashlights, the killer will force to slug the survivor, but if he slug survivor for too long under a pallet, he cannot pick them up. if he does, you put pallet down preventing an entire hook-state. in solo, there's no perk synergy or any teamplay so relevance of stalling a killer under a pallet/flashlight save holds little weight.
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@CaulDrohn said:
You video fails miserable in proving your point. All the matches it shows were recorded BEFORE the perk overhaul, as can be seen by the use of old dead hard in the trapper game, and at least two scenes with event pedestals in the last match. So if anything, the video proves that the game was survivor sided before the perk overhaul, but it is totally irrelevant for the current state of the game.
the game is still survivor-sided post changes. nothing changed. look how many average hooks the killer gets before 5 gens.
game 1: 2 hooks(total 2 hooks)
game 2: 2 hooks(total 2 hooks)
game 3: 0 hooks(total 1 hook)
game 4: 1 hook(total 3 hooks)
game 5: 2 hooks(total 3 hooks) 1 kill
power of just pressing m1 on generators and base-kit info perks with ok looping. 10% pallet break, faster cooldown and 10 second gens changes very little for survivor yet you have survivor constantly suiciding in soloq and survivor's saying the game is unplayable.
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@gatsby said:
I think there should be a base game mechanic where each hook gives +5% slowdown that stacks until the end of the match.
This would incentivize Killers prioritizing hooks and reward them for trying to hook as many people as possible. Less slugging and less camping because Killers are rewarded for their progress.
If the Killer hooks everyone twice (eight hooks), that would equate to 40% slowdown without anyone even killed yet. Sounds like an easy way to get Killers to play “nice” to me.
Thoughts?
this already a perk. its called dying light. instead of 5%, its 3% and one of survivor is immune effects & gains free 33% healing speed increase and unhooking speed. Nobody uses it.
Thanotophobia was 5.5% per injure globally on entire team up to 22%. just got changed few weeks ago. unlikely for them ever put these type of effects in the game.
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@Crowman said:
It's 45 seconds to respawn unless Pinhead picks it up which it becomes 10.
30 seconds. 45 second is if you grab someone out of a locker when they are carrying the box. window grab as well.
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@Phasmamain said:
It’s crazy to see Freddy below clown. People used to say he was S tier when his rework first came out which seems ridiculous now (I know he had slowdown add ons but without them he kinda sucked)
it just goes to show you how much gen defense matters for killers. his anti-heal+slowing gens down add-on were pretty strong in conjunction with his snares. it is sad to see a horror icon fall so low after a rework.
Artist in Otz tier list is same thing currently. He rates her highly because of deadlock+dead man switch+pain res+corrupt combo on her. 4 gen defense stacking perks. sounds very familiar to mr freddy from awhile back.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143807#Comment_3143807
A few things to consider.
I did not say that being hit with a blade will slow movement speed, so he is not like Clown. I said the blades will slow conspicuous action speed (gen repair, healing, etc.) And that makes sense. The more injured you are, the harder it is to complete tasks. And yes, I agree with you. I would not make a Killer like Trickster gain the haste status for landing hits (nor did I suggest that).
I did not state what his movement speed would be (see the note at the bottom), so that critique isn't something that is applicable.
Regarding what Survivors would like to go against, a generalization like that is not something you or I can truly answer, but personally, I would like to go against him (I'm a Survivor main).
You're right that we'll have to see about how Wesker works, but keep in mind, the proposed rework for Trickster does not slow movement speed. It slows down gen repair, heal, etc, so it is not compulsory. Survivors will not enter the dying state if they don't remove the blades.
sounds like thantophobia. you could equip the perk. no need to rework killer. Wesker does not inflict any action speed penalties. He inflicts hindered and exposed against ability. no need to weaken chase either. according to community, he's apparently c-tier. I don't see any need to weaken a chase on under-performing killer in chase.
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a projectile killer that slows survivor down... i wonder who that could be? How about big fat guy.
reworking trickster knifes to be permanent hindered bottles will make survivor hate him more. If you reverse it and make trickster gain 1% haste effect for landing knifes with a survivor in a chase, He'll be dislike for being a killer that bloodlust survivors down. I don't think survivor would enjoy going against 115% m/s trickster that hits knifes and suddenly goes 125% speed permanently in chase.
Mending simulator for survivor is just legion 2.0. Taking out knifes would not be interactive gameplay.
They can choose to stop and take the time to remove their blades, or they can choose to keep them embedded and play while penalized (and make themselves more vulnerable to a down). It's their choice. (Kind of like cleansing with Plague).
I don't think its much of choice whether to take out knives vs 125% m/s killer. it would be compulsory. you will see when Albert wesker comes out. His infection reduces your movement speed by 8%. Its not optional to stay with infected against him. Its compulsory. Luckily, you have ton of sprays to never really be infected. It gives him free 4vs1 gen defense which is something nobody has talked about within his ability.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143470#Comment_3143470
Trust me, it's not the huge boost you think it is. Good players aren't reliant on comms, and comms don't make mediocre players better if they're bad at chase.
being swf does not mean you auto-win the game. there are many weak swf that are not strong. 4 solo players that are bad at the chase will lose faster and get less total gens done.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
They are trying I think but they don't know how to do it, if reassurance goes live untouched it's a facecamp nerf and DS should probably be buffed, what else can they do without completely changing the game ?
mandatory perks are bad but it's better than nothing
do you want non-mandatory perks to be base-kit? Like imagine Dead hard, Off the record, Borrow time and DS base-kit for survivor. it makes survivor get 4 free perks and now survivor can put 4 more additional perks on top of base-kit perks to get even more second chances.
@ByeByeQ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143642#Comment_3143642
BBQ & Chili and Old Pain Resonance.
Killers have no incentive to no play nice anymore. Not that BBQ was much of an incentive but it did help. I know it helped me play nicer, I'd try for that last BBQ stack earlier in the match but now I usually have a couple people dead and the game in hand before I tackle the best looper on the team.
i didn't see much value in playing for BBQ stacks because if I just kill someone early, it gives you more time to chase other survivors which naturally builds 4 stack of BBQ. the only time you didn't get 4 stacks of BBQ is when you lost i.e playing nice. if anything BBQ allowed killer to tunnel survivors more effectively because you could chase survivor 1, hook them, chase survivor 2, hook them, then find survivor 1 - survivor 2 and so on.
now BBQ is a lot worse because everyone runs off the record which gives 80 seconds of aura immunity, so BBQ is now much weaker because its harder to use info to tunnel people out of the game with 80 sec aura immunity. playing nice, i.e playing by survivor rulebook is playing to lose as killer.
you can only play nice as killer if you have really good gen defense and have really strong anti-loop power like nurse for fast chases, but gen defense now a days is former shadow of itself. so playing nice is no longer viable. in truth, it wasn't viable ever against good teams but killer still tried to follow survivor rulebook anyway.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143213#Comment_3143213
Honestly, I'd put Demogorgon right behind Huntress.
They have similar playstyles at loops, but Demogorgon has the better mobility while Huntress has the long-range damage.
Demogorgon's best Add-Ons also outshine Huntress' imo
demo is m1 killer against better players because curving with his shred is not effective because most of demo's counter-play often boil down to put the pallet down 1 loop sooner then normal. it denies his ability to curve with shred and it often puts you into m1 pallet break simulator where his shred doesn't break pallets fast enough to be effective pallet eater. his anti-loop is a lot like dredge where it only works when in the corner of the map similar to brutal strength pallet zoning. essentially demo doesn't counter hold-w strategies very well because pallets are too effective against him but he is good at countering health-states & bodyblocking due to stbfl.
huntress is a lot stronger then him because unlike demo who needs build stbfl, huntress starts with 8 stacks of stbfl base-kit, so she naturally counters bodyblocking right from the start. this incredible in term of countering health-states and crazy strong for huntress hook camping game. drop pallets against huntress in loops is risky because she can hit people during animation of pallets and you might ask yourself... well why not pre-drop pallets? wouldn't her slow movement during hatch throwing make it impossible for her to get hits through LOS? this is true however the strength behind huntress is that unlike demo when he breaks a pallet, his shred has limit range of 6-8 meters. you can nearly always make it to next pallet. Against huntress, her hatchets have unlimited range and huntress counter to pre-drop pallets is shooting hatchets between loops after breaking the pallet. so despite being a 110% m/s killer, she counter's hold-w strategies against survivors extremely effectively because health-states give minimal distance and dropping pallets is not instant win against her in the chase.
this is why survivor greed pallets against huntress because its still safer to stay at loop with LOS and try win her 50/50 pallet drop mindgame then it is to try dodge hatchets in the open. that is also why wind-up add-on are strong for huntress because of the ability to throw hatchets between loops before the survivor gets to next pallet loop. brutal strength is good on huntress because breaking pallet faster means the survivor get less distance, less distance means easier hatchets to land between loops. bare in mind that you generally only get 1 hatchet per pallet break, but that's better than most killer that get zero chances to hit between loops.
this is also what set her apart from deathslinger and trickster. deathslinger's gun has smaller hitbox and at longer ranges, hitting survivors with good movement is nothing gambling for a movement error. his ADS change completely destroyed his ability to down survivors between loops and it also hurt his ability to shoot between cracks to down people at pallets. trickster lack's the window of opportunity to get hits between loops because he takes 6 hits to get an injure and anything less will slow you down while giving opportunity for survivors to regress his blades. trickster's knifes at tall loops is nothing short of ineffective. He is better at destroying health-states vs bodyblocking because he doesn't wipe his weapon or have cooldowns between his knife throws but that largely is not much better then huntress. He has terrible ammo problems as well.
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@xni6_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3140588#Comment_3140588
oh damn its 20%, maybe if they were gonna make the hinder permanent while infected it should be a liiiiiiiiittle less lol
its not intended to be permanent, its meant to decrease survivor's sprint burst when getting hit by nemesis power since survivor for some unexplained reason have 3 health-states against his ability. the add-on itself and effect is intended to give less sprint burst for these health-states so you gap-close the survivor easier, it is similar to demogorgon's black heart add-on which reduces swing recovery by 15%, except 0.2 sec of hindered is like less than 1% catch-up. basically useless in current form.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The thing is, with 3 second stun, DS will always be pointless to use. The stun needs to be back to 5 seconds and then you can look at the Perk.
Without the Stun Time being reverted, Buffs to DS are most likely not helpful.
disagree. DS is not pointless because it allows you to stack second chance perks.
Dead hard+Decisive strike+Off the record is pretty much defining meta build right now for survivor.
Off the record provides second chance preventing killer from immediately downing a survivor after getting unhooked, Next if the survivor goes down and killer is poised to get them out of the game, They eat decisive strike which is 100% instant wiggle-off perk that stuns killer for 3 seconds and removes deep wound timer. If the killer still persists in chasing the survivor which likely is still case(If you ate OTR & DS), then dead hard comes into play because DS removes deep wound allowing another second chance endurance effect to be used.
I still get hit by DS around 1/4th the time playing as killer, so the perk is definitely not dead/pointless unlike killer perks that received sizable reductions in strength to "Change the meta" as they say.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141791#Comment_3141791
My comparison was that PRIOR to the mid-chapter, Killers wouldn’t often hit Survivors off hook because BT was powerful enough that they weren’t willing to take the risk (especially when old Dead Hard could be used while deep wounded).
If Reassurance is strong enough and widely used, gradually Killers won’t camp anymore because they assume people have the perk. Plus the perk will still get some value if you can make ur chase “drive by” a hooked Survivor to get the usage.
reassurance is likely to be kinship/camaraderie 2.0 where not enough people use it. it might not do much for camping because killer that are good at camping will likely just instantly slug you near hook when you approach 6 meter marker, like trickster can just spam knifes and down you. the weaker killer that aren't as good at camping might just let you unhook only to tunnel survivors off hook similar to pyramid head tunneling people off cages.
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one thing that i'm happy for is that all these self-care users can now use self-care+hyper focus+this is not happening. finally they'll be useful teammates that can press m1 on gens and press m1 on healing without giving the killer free 4k's.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141206#Comment_3141206
Um, you do realize sliding is an intentional mechanic on Blight, right? It’s literally why he has a collision detector attached to the camera angle so he can reduce it by looking down. The only unintended interaction is sliding by starting the Rush already hugging an object, thus "hug" tech. All other forms of sliding are intentional.
some player seriously think that all of his sliding is giant bug and that bvhr will "fix it". they want blight to play like PTB wesker where the hitbox for bumping is giant so you jump bump on everything as blight and you can't slide, instead you just stop in place similar to how Albert Wesker is in the PTB with his dash stops in place on anything he collides into.
fixing hug tech would kill blight and completely shatter his skill-cap around loops.
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@GoshJosh said:
Don’t even know how you can open a thread with that title without mentioning Bitter Murmur, Rancor, Coup De Grace, Deadlock, Fire Up, and most of all... NOED.
that's because bitter murmur, coup the grace, fire up are like d-tier perks. no one runs those...
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3140850#Comment_3140850
Even if he would have immediately run away, he still would've gotten hit there.
Even if he hadn't, the Blight had THREE more rushes to get a hit.
its not about running away from loop. its about moving outwards from loop because it makes blight player guess whether he needs to curve along path of the loop or move outwards.
Even if the blight does get an angle to swing by predicting your pathing from going outwards, you can do something what i will refer to as shimmy. some people will refer to it as wiggling. this is somewhat of FOV technique where you make killer believe that your walking far right, but on very last second, you go left. it works reverse way as well, going far left then going right at very last second.
if you loop outwards toward a loop and then wiggle, 9/10, the blight won't expect it and he'll miss. its really hard to predict it when doing hug tech because you need to look down at camera to slide along obstacle so when you get around the corner, you have very little time to adjust your orientation to go for the swing.
out in the open, shimmy rarely work against good blights because they can read your movement easier, like what I tend to do is angle myself to the left or the right, then max distance swing diagonally so that I hit them at the end of my lethal rush.
If you want an example of what I'm talking about look at 3:40-3:50 in the video. the ace does what I'm talking about. its very hard for blight to counter wiggling with his lethal rush during a hug tech.
this technique also works against Oni's demon rush by the way.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cejrKMuifQ@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3140774#Comment_3140774
He can change his Rush direction when he's at the end of the car. He can start sliding one way, then go another. With Speed add-ons, there isn't much of an opportunity to react to that.
Unless you are suggesting Survivors simply camp pallets and drop them instantly against Blight (which is a sure-fire way to lose fast on most maps), I'm not seeing the idea here.
you mean like these type of hug tech's right at the start of the video? i would say the most effective way to deal with it is to break away from loop because most blights will slide along edge of surfaces of the loop. its similar to dealing with billy chainsaw curving.
@Brokenbones said:
I love the whole "it's not actually that effective, it's just to show off" defence people use to argue why it shouldn't be removed
legit the same argument was used for jflicking
Personally I hope they fix it but make Blight's collision better. The argument I heard from that one Lilithomen video where he's like "survivors will HATE bump logic blight" - like if a killer being used the way they are supposed to is problematic, it'll be changed regardless of if they leave in these bugs.
i'm pretty sure that experienced blights use it at least 10 times per match. removing it would make blight so clunky, you would just bump into every object that you don't want to bump into. hug tech is very important skill for blight because it gives more control for the blight player to control what he has to bump into vs what he doesn't want to bump into.
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@PBsamichShoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3140453#Comment_3140453
Isnt there another perk that used to do that? Was it WGLF or well make it? I think one of those used to but they reworked them.
Anyway. I get what youre saying, like if you could unhook someone before LF can fully charge his power, but he could still rev it and force a trade or worse rev it and get a cheeky free down if youre not being careful positioning for the save.
I wouldnt bother trying to balance it around LF. His ability is such an unbalanced outlier when it comes to camping ability, its like trying to balance perks around nurse in a way.
Im more interested in BT becoming a perk that could counter camping.
I mentioned LF because hes literally the only killer that can pretty much bypass any anti-camping perk.
If anything they should adjust his power so he cant use it when within 6-10 meters of the hooked survivor. Artists cant place birds near hook and trapper cant place traps under a hook etc etc it makes no sense that LF doesnt have a similar limitation.
I don't know any perks that grant unhooking speed of old. The only perks that i know that grant unhooking speed are no one left behind and desperate measures. No one left behind is too situational as it only works in end game and desperate measures is designed to be more of reverse old thanatophobia for healing. it doesn't have enough unhook threshold speed and going in front of the killer is still suicide without endurance.
Im more interested in BT becoming a perk that could counter camping.
Perhaps it could have all 3 effects. i would say if you try to unhook in front of the killer, your suppose to get slugged against all killer's. not to go into too much detail, but a lot of the 5 generator balance vs 12 hooks for killer tends to be balanced out by the killer being able to 1 hook and 2 hook survivors, so anti-camp perks tend to be quite oppressive for the killer in current iteration of the game due to hook-trading. They are adding reassurence to the game, so we'll see how that anti-camp perk plays out(if survivor use it).
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3139670#Comment_3139670
There is no Hindered Status Effect when infected, that's Wesker's Uroboros, not Nemesis' T-Virus
there is. its 20% when you get hit by his whip and it lasts.... 0.2 seconds and you get this legendary add-on to improve it to 0.4 seconds.
his zombies are decent anti-stealth and they can stall the survivor sometimes, but i would say their movement speed is too slow even with add-on's to be of much use.
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i have feeling they might remove conspicuous actions and my nightmare dreams of survivor bodyblocking me as killer will come true.
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@PBsamichShoe said:
Make the base kit BT last 10 seconds.
Then rework BT the perk to do the following:
Whenever you perform a hook rescue you are granted the endurance status effect for 6/8/10 seconds. While BT is active the hook rescue animation cannot be interrupted by the killer. Cancelling the rescue attempt still triggers the endurance effect. Once activated BT has a cooldown of 60/50/40 seconds. Conspicuous actions will deactivate the endurance effect (repairing generators, healing yourself or another player, blessing or cleansing totems but obviously hook rescues will not cancel it.)
It still wouldn't counter a face camping leatherface since they can get multiple hits off during the unhooking animation, but it would counter most other face camping killers.
you could make it increase unhooking speed by 50/75%/100%. the killer would only have 0.75 second window to grab the survivor instead of 1.5 second window. you might be able to unhook against leatherface with it instead of immunity to hook grabbing.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3139543#Comment_3139543
You are confusing ceiling with power again.
Tell me, do you think a high skilled billy can win vs equally skilled swfs who know how to loop against a billy?
High skill ceiling doesnt mean high power.
these high-skill ceiling tactics mean nothing towards sadako.
I think your naming hypothetical skill-ceilings that do not exist in her ability yet but are in her power.
for example
She has to learn how to use her short period of distortion when demanifested at loops.
this would very skill-expressive for sadako IF it didn't last 0.5 seconds. her invisibility only lasts like half second. once the survivor knows what direction your going, the rest of phases do nothing. if her phases were all put into 1 phase for like 3 seconds, then yes she would have higher skill-ceiling at loops.
She has to know which tvs will be on cooldown for a while and which ones are about to come back online.
Learning that your TV have 100 second cooldown is not a skill. its limiting factor in the ability that limits her condemn build-up and mobility. in other words, Cooldowns exist to limit skill-ceiling of the killer but sometimes they can be healthy in certain instances.
She can harass a single survivor, build their condemn, deny that survivor the opportunity to use the tape to get rid of condemn.
she can only build 1 condemn stack every 100 seconds in TP at base-kit. you would need to be standing next to a tv for 700 seconds for her to build 7 condemn stacks. that is like 11+ minutes. it takes forever for you to ever build meaningful condemn stacks through teleporting at base-kit.
high skill-cieling does mean high power because it means your action impact the outcome of the match. Sadako's action do not impact the outcome of the match. what impacts the match for Sadako is survivors skill-level. Its same thing for billy. When billy was stronger, his chainsaw skills mattered more towards the outcome of the match. His power was weaken, thus his skill-expression was weakened.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3139066#Comment_3139066
- Blood Favour - What can I tell you, I get value out of it when I use it. 🤷♂️
- Crowd Control - Hexes don't need to be literally "game changing" to be useful. But I do agree that Crowd Control could use a buff.
- Lullaby - Again, I agree this one is too weak to be a Hex.
- Devour Hope - Devour Hope triggers after 3 hooks, not "only in the end game". If you're not getting 3 hooks by the "end game" you're playing badly.
- Ruin - reverting its regression would not be reverting it to its old version since the old version continued working after one death. I agree the current version is too slow, so I'm all for it returning to 200%, but they should keep in that it turns off after a death, that's fine.
- Third Seal - You answered your own question, it's a perk because it's effective in at least half the matches where everybody is solo queue. (When the devs have periodically shown data on it it's very roughly a 50-50 split between all solo survivor squads and survivors that include a 2-4 person swf). Also note that one of the top picked perks currently is Windows of Opportunity and Blindness is a direct counter to it, and that part at least works just fine against swfs too. What I'd like is for them to find a way to both buff solos so they have some additional information that swf players get on comms, and then if Third Seal is now too weak against solos buff it to do, say, Blindness and Exhaustion (similar to how Fearmonger and Septic Touch pair them together).
- Undying - I disagree that "none of the other Hexes are worth using". Again, I get good value out of Devour Hope, Blood Favour, and Haunted Grounds at the very least when I use them and Undying plus any of those is better than the sum their parts. Undying even works with the Plaything plus Pentimento combo that's in vogue.
- NOED - Yeah, NOED is fine as is, I agree.
So I'm not sure why you said you "disagree with this list of hexes", we seem to agree on a bunch of them.
Again, Hexes don't need to be "gaming changing", they just need to give good enough value over their expected life span to be worthwhile. Pentimento for example is strong but not "game changing" but it does give good enough slowdown if it stays up for at least a couple of minutes. Haunted Grounds is also not game changing and only lasts 60 seconds but giving a couple of instant downs in the early game can really shift the momentum.
in most my games when playing against weak killers. Devour hope would typically trigger at 3-4 generator done, sometimes even at 5 generator done. that's been my typical experience vs it.
As for using it, I've only used it on Nurse and pre-nerf spirit. I would never use this perk on anyone except these two killers. this perk is like designed by survivor main that wants the killer go for hooks only to cleanse it so the killer gets nothing for it. it works for them because nurse doesn't need perks to win chases, but gets massive "gen defense" by being able to convert her 2 hits into 1 hit. basically you save a lot of time as nurse if you can instant down the survivor. same with spirit, though spirit is not as good as before without luxury add-ons. its low risk, high reward perk for those two.
Now a days, you won't see nurses using this perk because starstruck is devour hope for nurse without hex condition. Ghostface and Wraith can use the perk, but its high risk, high reward perk. relies on survivors being bad at the chase to get first 3 hooks.
Hex:Pentiomento is as powerful as pre-nerfed hex:ruin but survivor have no obligation to ever cleanse any totem. there isn't any good reason for a survivor to cleanse a totem by default. cleansing totems is just free generator defense for the killer and survivor will always rush first 3-4 generators as it is essential to combat camping, so by the time a totem is cleansed, your at 1 gen so this perk loss all of its effectiveness since 80% of objective got completed. if you could activate this perk at the start of the game and keep it active for the entire game, it would be better than any other killer perk in the game. Luckily, you can't do that, so the perk is not worth using.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I used to think she was like D tier. Then I started getting those direct bird hits and predictions to get hits through walls and across maps, including shotgun strats. She's A tier. It sucks to face holding W people, but you can shoot birds across maps/through walls to where they're running, because eventually they're gonna have to come into your bird's sights. She's not viable at top level, but she comes close.
well I already knew she would be above average from PTB. i wouldn't say she is amazing though. D-tier rating is crazy. just better then rest because most of the killers are pure awful. I'd put her at around top 10-14. i'd say she is around demo/nemesis level. I'd say she is B-tier, high B-tier. weaker than trickster, better then deathslinger.
She is not that good at high-level because he sucks at countering hold-w. her only real method of countering hold-w is landing range crows but you need land two crows consectively. Better off just playing huntress. just overall weak range killer. she does exploit dead man switch really hard, so you can class her as real strong camping killer if this your play-style, though this particular play-style will be getting some changes once reassurance comes out. good riddance to camping artists. they are as legendary as insidious bubba's.
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@StickyB said:
Gen times were increased to combat games going too quickly.
Thana was buffed which made people feel it was too strong and then it was nerfed into the ground for almost every killer. Since gens times were increased by 10%, why not just decrease Thana by 10%. 4.5%/9%/13.5%/18%. This would mean that 4 stacks of thana would add 16 seconds to a gen, which is the exact same amount old thana added to the old gens.
Thana would be just as strong as it was before.
Also a little side note, I do not believe that thana was the problem, but gift of pain in combo with it was. A jump from 9% to 16% meant it went from adding 7.2 seconds (on an 80 second gen) to a gen to 14.4 seconds (on a 90 second gen), they literally double the amount of time it added.
thana pre-patch was 4/8/14/20 on 80 sec. the vast majority of killer have weak chases, so they only really hit 8 and 14. thana post-patch was 5/11/17.78(18)/25 seconds.
now its 2/3/5 seconds with.... strange bonus of 22.5 seconds with 4 injured survivors. your better off using current hex:ruin then this perk. might be one of worst perks in the entire game now. if you get more then 5 seconds of regression, the perk already did more then thana. people should stop making posts about this dead perk.
the only time thana was good was when it affected healing and it hasn't been useful since.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3138388#Comment_3138388
Actually Breakdown probably works basically as well in solo queue as it does in swfs since it’s a totally passive effect that doesn’t require special communication.
its too weak. breakdown has same problem as boil over.
it encourages slugging, but slugging is not effective for killer unless killer downs entire team. I could see perk removing a hook permanent instead of the pointless duration but killer needs to have counter-play for a perk like this to exist.
if a hook breaks permanent in the corner of the map, survivor will often run into corner where you can't hook them and the killer has to wait 4 minutes for them to die. breakdown encourages this type of gameplay where killer gets no rewards for downing the survivor and can't rehook them. so its anti-tunnel perk similar to decisive strike that forces slugging to be countered.
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@DBDVulture said:
One of the purposes of DLC in DBD is to fix problems with perks as bandaids.
Clown gave killers Bamboozle even though he doesn't really need that perk at all due to his vault mechanic. Instead of fixing the possibility of unfair tiles we get that perk instead.
Instead of addressing the problem of gen speeds vs chases at high level play (which is the root cause of camping) they gave survivors an abusive anti camping perk.
well they are trying to improve chases for killer. its just that 10% pallet breaking speed is not doing a whole lot against experienced loopers. ideally killers shouldn't be breaking pallets in first place. they should be winning pallets using their ability. if the killer is designed to break pallets to win the game, then killer better be breaking pallets at record speeds. on-hit does weaken med-kits and endurence(second chance) perks for non-mobile/non-instant down but only if the killer uses Myer's perk.
chases are improving but it would be more useful if killer power's were stronger instead.
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@dugman said:
So one of the arguments made for hexes is that its a risk reward system that justifies their "game changing effects" or something along those lines. However most of the hexes power doesnt justify this line of thinking. One that comes to mind and has been this way for awhile is huntress lullaby. A new comer being Ruin.
Hexes on the whole as a mechanic are fine, it’s just certain specific Hexes like Huntress Lullaby and Ruin that could use a buff. So really you have to look at each Hex individually and adjust its effect if needed given how Hexes work in general.
Just going down the list
- Blood Favour - This is actually not bad. I use it periodically and typically get free hits and downs from it before it’s eventually cleansed.
- Crowd Control - Maybe could use a slight buff? Technically it can block windows slightly easier than Bamboozle but the disadvantage to this compared to Bamboozle is you can’t actively pre-block a window before the survivor vaults it. For example, say you are approaching shack. With Bamboozle you can vault the window before the survivor does to block it in advance. With Crowd Control it doesn’t get blocked until after the survivor uses it which is a bit weaker. I could see this maybe getting a buff where survivors periodically have windows they are approaching be blocked with a cooldown rather than windows they just used. (So every 30 seconds if you are in a chase a window the survivor you are chasing approaches gets blocked for a short term.)
- Devour Hope - Maybe my favorite Hex. 🙂 This is the epitome of high risk high reward, if the survivors cleanse it early you get nothing but it they ignore it too long you get huge value. No need to change it.
- Haunted Ground - Pretty good effect. I typically get 1-3 instant downs from it somewhat early in the match when I use it because invariably some survivor destroys it. Yeah, in theory survivors shouldn’t do that without knowing what the Hex probably is, but they do. 😄
- Huntress Lullaby - This definitely doesn’t need to be a Hex at all. It could literally just be a perk that says “survivors don’t get sound queues on their skill checks” and it still probably wouldn’t be overpowered.
- No One Escapes Death - Obviously the effect is Hex worthy. It also just got a nerf to make it easier to find after it triggers so it’s probably fine as is.
- Plaything - Making a survivor permanently Oblivious until they cleanse the totem isn’t a bad effect, probably ok as is.
- Retribution - This one I could see maybe getting a bit of a buff. The aura it gives is decent but it only triggers once per match, so it’s a bit like Lethal Pursuer once per match only with unpredictable timing and it doesn’t buff other aura durations. Feels like this could be buffed and still not be overpowered as a one-shot Hex.
- Ruin - The new version’s regression is probably too slow considering it’s a Hex. I’m ok with it turning off after someone dies, but they could probably keep the old 200% speed in that case.
- Third Seal - This is tricky because Blindness can be really great against solo queue and average survivors but is a lot less useful against swfs and excellent survivors. I’m not sure how you could buff the effect against the top end without making it overpowered on average.
- Thrill of the Hunt - Probably too weak as a Hex as is, especially on its own. It does provide additional slowdown if the survivors are placing a lot of Boons and you keep reseting them but is that worth being a Hex? Feels like it could just be a normal perk that says “survivors take X seconds longer to cleanse or Bless totems” and it would still be ok.
- Undying - Obviously not that great by itself but combined with a second or third or fourth good Hex it’s solid.
I definitely do not agree with this list for hexes.
Blood Favour - You can just hold-w most of the time. In order for this hex to be game-changing, it would need break standing pallets
Hex:crowd control: - Doesn't do anything, just makes survivor drop pallets sooner, For it to be game-changing, it should block all windows until cleansed
Hex:Lullaby - Prevents you from getting consistent great skill-checks, does not matter against strong players. 10% faster dial speed per token up to 50% might making it do something. Get a better skill-checks and you can completely ignore this perk
Devour hope - Comes online too late into the match for most killers, If you loop well enough, you'll often never see its exposed effect until end game. Strong anti-loop killers that can use exposed can make good use of it. It would be better if this perk lost its token system and mori and gained exposed right at the start of the match. It would make it a strong option for stealth killers
Ruin - It was strong before patch. reverting regression would make it game-changing like before. it was only hex that you couldn't ignore.
Third seal - I'm not sure why this is a perk because it only hurts solo and does nothing for SWF. It is designed for 4 man slugging. I would change effect where it makes you lose 35% bleed out timer when another survivor heals another survivor from dying state to injured state. It would be game-changing for slugging.
Plaything - This perk is amazing for instant down killers because it allows you hit & run with 1 hits on all killers. It should lose its aura effect.
Haunted grounds - Only exists to make devour hope stronger. Ironically, it ends up being stronger then devour hope in most cases because devour hope often get cleansed before its relevancy making this perk proc more often than not. very strong on anti-loop killers where instant down works with their ability. arguably strongest non-noed hex.
Hex: Retribution - Not enough of reward for being a hex. This perk should be reworked to give permanent aura reading until broken.
Thrill of hunt - Why is this a hex? they should put shattered hope effect on this perk. it could be anti-boon perk. maybe it makes boons take 50% longer, increases hex cleansing time and allows killer to break the totem.
Hex: Undying: Only exists to make other hex perk relevant. its not worth using because none of hex are worth using. typically the best way to use this hex is to run haunted ground and try get survivor to proc 2 haunted grounds.
NOED: still grants late game kills, just less consistent.
main issue with hexes is that if you make all hexes game-changing, then the best builds ends up being 4 hex builds because they give you the most bang for your buck in term of perks. so they're largely flawed concept as perks.
the other issue with them is that killers don't like using them because they got no consistency. funny enough, the more hexes you use, the more consistent hex perks become which is also problematic for these perks.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3136950#Comment_3136950
None of these killers were "deleted" This post is about nerfing wesker on release yet you're having to find minor changes to certain killers that have nothing to do with their release, what tangent are you going on right now because it's ridiculous lmao.
Me - "Most killers are buffed on release"
You - "ACKSHUALLY LOOK AT THESE KILLERS THAT WERE NERFED WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR RELEASE DATE BUT I SHALL LIST THEM ANYWAY BECAUSE KILLER MAINS ON THE FORUMS WILL UPVOTE ME BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT CONVERSATION TOPICS"
Survivors nerfs directly affect every single survivor player, nerfing a small number on one killer does nothing to the rest of the cast, they aren't even remotely similar, survivor nerfs are always more impactful than any single killer change.
What @ThatOneDemoPlayer is stating is that none of these changes improve/change position of the killer. They're meaningless changes that do nothing
- Decreased max visible range while demanifested to 24m (was 32m) -> Does nothing due to Lullaby
- Decreased Terror Radius to 24m (was 32m) -> Does not help with stealth, Lullaby
- Decreased the amount of Condemned removed when inserting a tape to 3 segments (was 4 segments) -> Does not help with building up.
- Decreased time taken to passively gain a condemned segment while holding a tape to 25 seconds (was 30 seconds) -> No one pick up tapes
- Add-on: Yoichi’s Fishing Net: Decreases time taken to passively gain a condemned segment while holding a tape by 12% (was 20%) ->Unnecessary weak add-on change.
- What does make an impact are killer negative changes such as:
- Pinhead:
- Iridescent Lament Configuration: Increased range to 24 meters (was 16 meters)
- Engineer's Fang: When hitting an injured Survivor with a possessed chain, only 1 additional chain will spawn
- Larry's Remains: Decreased solving time modifier to 2 seconds (was 4 seconds)
- Liquified Gore: Decreased solving time modifier to 1 second (was 2 seconds)
- Deathslinger:
- Increased terror radius to 32 meters (was 24 meters)
- The Deathslinger must now wait for the Enter Aim animation to complete before being able to fire (0.4 seconds)
- The Deathslinger must now wait for the Exit Aim animation to complete before being able to attack (0.6 seconds)
- Spirit:
- While phase walking Survivors within 24 meters of The Spirit (not the husk) hear a directional audio cue that gains volume with proximity
- Revisited add-ons
there is difference between high impact changes that weaken their best add-on & defining strength in base-kit vs meaningless changes for Sadako that still cement her as m1 killer with low impact ability.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3137527#Comment_3137527
So says a person afraid of change.
I've seen it suggested that survivors should share hook states, and the killer cannot sacrifice a survivor until they have reached X number of hook states. This would put killers like Onryo and Myers in a unique position where they can bypass the hook counter to kill survivors, and open the door to new killer and/or add-on designs that are centered around pre-mature moris.
One can only speculate what this would mean for the health of the game (i.e. would it really fix tunneling?), but it definitely doesn't break the game--some killers already play with 12 hooks as their win condition.
This is just one suggestion. It of course has a few kinks to work out, but it suggests that something can be done without breaking the game.
that idea is a perk. devour hope. devour hope gives you 5 collective hook states across entire team and after that. the killer can mori any survivor regardless of hooks.
pre-mature mori were offering, ebony mori and green mori, but since the condition of those mori's were based off hooks, those mori turbo buffed tunneling. i'm sure survivor remembered the days of getting unhooked without BT, getting downed and then getting mori instantly off hook 2 sec after.
very well-balanced offerings /s
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i would much rather go down and be able to pick myself up again then not go down in the first place, you can get back up from being downed
getting slugged as survivor shouldn't be rewarding but it is. I could see DS being reverted if survivor did not get rewarded for being slugged and the killer got rewarded for slugging. preventing a hook state is pretty big currently in the game, hence why DS was changed.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3137292#Comment_3137292
Admittedly I wasn’t but this patch was actually the chance to change their design philosophy around perks being band aids for game mechanics.
But as usual they slapped a perk on to camping and said “fixed it!”
perks are designed to customize the way a player wishes to approach winning in a game. they also there to counter your most disliked strategy. You only get 4 perks, so you have to pick wisely for what strategies you want to counter because of the rest of strategies that you do not counter have to be coped with.
most people do not like coping with tunneling and camping, hence they use perks to weaken its effectiveness. It just so happens that everyone shares that sentiment so those perks are the perceived meta strategy.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Yes it would be overpowered
so does that mean that swf will be removed from the game at some point?