Cymer
Cymer
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- Cymer
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@Ember_Hunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/58826/totem-protection
Might actually be a good idea! Makes Hex Totems a bit stronger, and since it is impossible to get all totems before one minute... :)
Don't challenge bored SWFs!
60s is plenty of time to destroy all the totems and to be fair, I would love to use Hex perks but survivors need a counterplay.
Otherwise perks like Ruin become OP, like 1 min of guarantee Ruin plus totem hunt.
I rather would love to have more interaction with totems, survivors and killers. Like a better Thrill of the Hunt.
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The endgame collapse has the goal to end swf and survivors taking games hostage by not leaving or playing the objective.
Now you as the killer can close the hatch and create a better dynamic to chase down the last survivor.
The killer can open the gates if he want to end the game faster and some killer can take advantage of the endgame collapse.
Piggy, Trapper, High mobility Killers like Nurse, Billy, Spirit, Hag.
It's a fun way to end a match.
This way the end of the match at max takes 3 min if the killer does nothing. But if they actively interact with each other both sides will have fun.
I repeat: the objective of the endgame collapse is not add secondary goals, it is to push hidden and hostage taking survivors out of the gates. Maybe 1 out of 100 games someone dies to the collapse, but that's fine.
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I consider SWF who are using 3th party programs to communicate as cheating and ruining my fun of the game on both sides.
It removes the horror of isolation on the survivor side and sometimes SWFs screw you over on purpose.
On killer side I dislike SWFs because they dictate how I have to play the game because by having access to voice the make some perks absolutely useless and throw the entire in game rules and usual tactical plays out of the window. I cannot isolate and misdirected a survivor because 1-3 other survivors are helping the victim out.
They are either extremely over altruistic and throwing the game or coordinated and screw you over by accessing additional information not intended or implemented in the regular game.
I think this is especially appalled that right now we have the ban banner that literally state that there are "exploits that could potentially be abused to ruin the enjoyment of others."
This would be my definition of SWFs using voice to ruin the enjoyment of other survivors and the killer.
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Will now DH and MoM cancel FF?
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Camping is the only universal counter to MoM.
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If Moonwalking is an exploit what is voicecom?
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The only counter to MoM right now are m2 attacks so no stacks get gained and camping the first hook.
Is this a fun and healthy playstyle?
Only Legion and Billy are now viable against MoM...and Billy would be the only viable killer at high ranks after the Nurse bugfix.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I assume this room is where survivors are loaded into after they've escaped, so they're not just standing in place running beyond the gates.
May not even be an actual room. Probably just placed under the map. It's probably also why you can still hear survivors who escaped still running, or whimpering if wounded.
The big question is, can a nurse teleport there?
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It happen once to me and honestly I don't mind.
I rather wait for a full game then play a spoiled one from the beginning.
It sucks as a survivor and it is also no challenge as a killer.
And this way we can keep our add-ons and offerings without wasting them on a failed match.
Can it be abused, yes.
Will it be abused probably.
But so far survivors could DC if they don't like a Mori and we lost a rare offering. This was we can at least keep it.
And I have faith in the devs, now that they visible listen and communicate that they would fix it. At least when the servers come in the summer.
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There is only one universal counter to MoM: camping
Not even kidding.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
Her we go with the killer mains blaming MoM 🙄
Besides m2 and face camp what are the counter to MoM?
Enlighten me!
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So MoM have a harder time to get stacks against M2 killers, but as soon the have MoM active the basically have invurnability mode on until they get hit. They even can tank NOED hits for their buddies.
Edit: that leaves you with instasaw Billy as the only viable killer after the bugfix in the entire game.
And camping becomes the only consistent counter against MoM for non M2 Killers.
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@slingshotsurvivor said:
No not even close.
Doesn't work with
Billy's Chainsaw
Nurse's Hit After Blink
Micheal Meyers Exposed
Leatherface Chainsaw
Wraith Hit After Uncloaking
Trapper When Stepping Trap
Spirit Hit After Phasing
.... Etc Etc Etc
It's so situational so it doesn't even come close to what DS used to be.
It does work with chainsaw ect if you are in injured state. It negates every hit in injured state that would put you in dying state.
Either it was bugged when I tested it or you should test it for yourself.
Nurse Blink hit is a bug. Exploiting a bug isn't a counter.
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To the bell curve argument.
SWF break the bell curve by interducing high ranking survivors to mid ranking killers.
As long this system is in place every SWF with different ranks breaks the game.
Suddenly a casual killer has to face a veteran.
It's like in a sports event in a local town. Normally all the average Joe's and Jane's have their fun and suddenly an athlete friend wants to join and just stomps the competition.
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@Lupolucio31 said:
They've been buffing killers for months. Seriously, if you still think playing killer is hard then stop playing this game. I play killer at rank 1 and I easily get 4k unless the last survivor finds the hatch. Actually playing survivor is more frustrating(cause of the stupid buff killer received and the fact that every killer uses the same perk) and less satisfying(seriously, playing survivor you get half of killer's blood points). I don't know what rank you're playing at and why you think killer is hard right now but don't complain about game because if you lose matches is your fault. GG devs
If every killer is using the same perk this only means there is a lack of viable alternatives!
If killers only are viable with specific perks and playstyle they are weak and underpowered.
There are a lot of crucial elements of the game, where the killer has absolutely no control over it. Like time, map presence or forcing the survivors to do the objectives or leave the match. Even the hatch forces the killer to split their options.
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About new chapters: the last 3 chapters interduced to us the all beloved Legion, the run in circles until she pukes Plague and the popular no skill perk MoM Ash.
I personally don't mind queue times for a game. Is it inconvenient, hell yes, but if I would get a fair and fun match I would love to have long queue times.
Infinite loading screen, DCing survivors or 3/2/1v1 aren't fun nor fair.
The difference between solos and SWFs are still huge and facing good veterans as midtier killer is not fun, as well that voice is breaking the rules of the game. No, not like they aren't allowed by BHVR, but voice has an influence how the survivors play the game and how effective some perks and strategies are.
@Peanits stated in a post, that the decisions of a single player or group of play should not punish you for your playstyle.
Paradoxically camping works wonders vs SWFs, because they tend to be over altruistic but is unfun for the survivors.
I agree with the OP, fix the existing issues and bugs in game as far as possible, everything that dedicated servers wouldn't solve.
Be more open with informationen especially towards dedicated servers, even by risking to sound like a broken record, make the players understand what dedicated servers all will change and focus on the balance between solos, swf/voice and killers.
I don't need new shiny chapters every 3 months, I rather have a high skill ceiling with existing killers and survivors that would entertain and engage me long term.
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@GraviteaUK said:
Mettle is an OP as hell second chance perk against any killer who has no damaging M2.
Had a guy hatch on me even though he messed up and got hit twice, because of that damn perk.
If you are injured it also blocks m2 like chainsaw hits ect.
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What is worse, a insidious bubba camping a basement hook or a red rank survivor using SWF system and voice to bully a low to mid rank killer?
What is more fun for the other party?
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Well old DS was just a pain in the ass, but aslong you didn't get surprised DS you had some counter play against the obsession, slug him until last, dribble to the hook (even if it is stupid) use Rancor.
MoM is much more versatile and sneaky than old DS.
Old DS was a selfish low skill perk, but MoM is a no skill perk, that let you take free hits, for yourself or others. It even counters all instadowns in injured state. 99% healing trick circumvent the weak aura reveal and even add an additional healthstate when 100% healed, so the killer has to hit one more time.
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The real issue with MoM is not the one time hit, even if that one time hit can make or break the game, and no, it's not the theoretically 6 hit chase that a survivor could pull off.
The real terrible power of MoM is a 4 man group running it.
4 guaranteed additional hits equals 2 successfully chases. Is almost like having to chase down a 5th phantom survivor. For killers time is truly of essence and losing 40-80 seconds over the time of the match kills the game.
Edit: it's like a perk would add an additional generator to repair.
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@Peanits himself stated in an other post, that DBD is tricky to pin point a right way to play the game. The question what the original vision of the killer play looked like was answered by silence (or I just over read it, in that case mb)
Clearly with the new emblem system they are trying to push a more survivors fun orientated system, but are too afraid to communicate clearly what they would like to see in their game and in principle they cannot force the killers to play a certain style, like they cannot force SWF and other voicecom users to not take advantage of 3th party program for ingame advantage from time to time.
So we end up with voice and campers.
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Hatch or voice
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Let's see, we have a perk, that activates only when all gens are done, so it doesn't help protecting gens and if you finish the game before the gens are powers, either by win or hatch (key or last survivor) the perk is absolutely useless and you played with 3 Perks at best.
During the trial the Perk can be countered by cleansing dull totems, it adds a nice secondary objective but not mandatory. Cleansing all dull totem, 5 at max removes the perk completely and rewards the survivors with some points.
After all gens are powered and one dull totem is left, it doesn't matter if a survivor already is cleansing it, the perk activates and light a dull totem. By cleansing the lit totems you remove NOED.
It gives a slight MS buff and Exposed status.
DH, MoM in injured state, BT and to an extend Unbreakable can counter Hex: NOED.
The perk is situational and therefore needs to be strong. There are plenty of counters to NOED, even good looping skills and use of remaining pallets and drops can prevent you from getting hit.
If you struggle against NOED pick your counter.
Either you want to try cleansing the totems, Detective's Hunch and Small Game are helping you find them, a map can assist you too.
Perks like DH, MoM, BT and to an extend Unbreakable can negate a hit. Especially the first 2.
Keys and hatch completely circumvent the NOED without finishing all gens or cleansing totems.
Sneaking and avoiding getting hit always works too, but need a lot of skill to pull of.
And of course, just leave through the gate.
Do you really need more counter-play options?
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Prayer Beads are fine, Premonition, Spine Chill ect. counter it.
If you don't like to play around it with gen tapping use those perks.
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Narrator: What @DarkWo1f997 didn't know, that @KillermainBTWm8 loves to play Tombstone Myers.
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
How about we give killers the incentive to leave the hook instead of punishing them? You know... People are not gonna stop doing it if they get punished, camping has been nerfed a lot since the release of the game and it's still a thing...
You mean like showing auras of BBQ before they got universally nerfed by lockers?
Or perks like Hex: Devour Hope that gets cleansed before the first hook?
Only Make your Choice remains on top of my head...but paradoxically you want to leave to trigger it, but still be around to profit from it...so indirectly promotes longer range camping.
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Sometimes I just feel like it or to blow off steam.
Like after a good Hag game but everyone escapes thanks to MoM.
Just go insidious bubba with BBQ, Agitation and of course NOED and just pick the most toxic survivor out of the group and bring him to the basement to have a serious talk with them.
Often others like to join as well, I am not exclude anyone so they can join his friend on the hook.
Some insist to join after all the gens are done and don't want to leave, so I happily oblige. After all I no monster and if you want to join the basement party instead of leaving, that's fine with me.
On average we end up with 3-4 group pictures on the hook.
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Hidden mini BP generator <3
The item is fun and red stuff is worth 6000 BP!
The perk pays for itself :)
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Just use voice and you get around 16 perks.
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@Kilmeran said:
@RockRage8962 Well, there are currently some very serious problems within Dead by Daylight. Whether or not it qualifies as a "Dark Time" will depend on your personal cosmology.
The main issue is: We don't know what player count and DLC units sold threshold Behavior has for Dead by Daylight. What we, as players, consider a "Dark Time" might actually still have DbD falling well within Behavior's numbers and revenue parameters. In other words, we view the game as declining, in potential danger, but on the financial end for Behavior, they could very well still be turning a profit that falls within where they want it to be. Revenue and profit requirements are never a fixed amount, but always a range of between X and Z.
Or, what we as players see could be accurate and Dead by Daylight isn't turning enough of a profit right now.
The problem is, since such information is never disclosed to a consumer base, we just don't know. So, we have to take what we perceive the situation to be, and decide to invest the play time and DLC money into the game, or not.
The danger lies in the fact that if enough players lose faith in the profitability and continued financial support of a game from a Studio, and go to another game or withhold their purchases because they no longer feel that the game has a long-term future, then the demise of a game could be a self-fulfilling prophecy. It has happened before with games.
Good analysis.
That's why proper communication and transparency is crucial.
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Usually I love to play spooky Hag.
Ear and Shackles
Monitor and Abuse
Make your Choice
Franklin's Demise
BBQ and Chilli
But since my last game against 3 MoM I started to look for alternative...3 times invurnability with no counterplay is no fun.
Time for Bubba and Myers until MoM gets balanced.
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@Cymer said:
What counters MoM
Hard face camping
Instadowns from chainsaws
Myers tier 3
Graps (Trappers trap)
Add-ons with instadowns
NOED, Haunted Ground, Rancor, if the survivor is fully healed.
Plague Corrupted Veil
Bugged Nurse Blink-hit
Slugging until bleeding out
Not hooking or hitting the obsession until all gens are poped and you can Rancor them to death.
Pick your poison. What would be the most fun to play and to face?
UPDATE
I tested it and there are some technicalities, besides the Nurse bug nothing can hit you IF the survivor is in INJURED STATE. No CHAINSAW nothing!
So just 99% and be happy toxic bodyblocking buttdancing survivor with invulnerability mode on. Just don't let the killer grab you!
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They genrushed you
The gate keeper emblem shows.
You failed at protecting your gens you bad bad wraith!
You need to learn to teleport to the gens faster or need to figure out how to ride your skullclub around the map like a Bingbong-train.
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@ADbDPlayer said:
Counterplay? lol 1 more hit ...
One more hit can cost you the game and it is not just one hit, you can chain this one hit into multiple hits.
SC to 99% to not trigger the aura downside.
Get hit, MoM proc.
You SC to 100% behind a pallet.
DH the next hit.
Get hit a third time you can now use Adrenaline or instaheal.
Fourth hit use the other.
Fifth hit you get injured.
Sixth hit you get down.
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Someone with a green key took the opportunity for a good deal. You got robbed. Imo items dropped by Franklins demise shouldn't be able to picked up by other survivors, only you can pick up your item. It's a buff for Franklins, but also a QoL for solo Q.
"Noo you stealing my bait!' the Hag hisses.
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New Doctor rework confirmed!
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@drunky26 said:
They discussed a lot of things.
Well this cripples all new players and if the game should grow and attract new players they should heavily consider to reduce the grind so more people can play on a even level.
Grind is one thing that occupies a player, but testing new builds and theory crafting is something that keep players hooked.
When the player is thinking on what build or perk he want to test out next and fantasy about it in their off time you really get long lasting customers.
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What counters MoM
Hard face camping
Instadowns from chainsaws
Myers tier 3
Graps (Trappers trap)
Add-ons with instadowns
NOED, Haunted Ground, Rancor, if the survivor is fully healed.
Plague Corrupted Veil
Bugged Nurse Blink-hit
Slugging until bleeding out
Not hooking or hitting the obsession until all gens are poped and you can Rancor them to death.
Pick your poison. What would be the most fun to play and to face?
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@all those who just spam Ashes git gut, MoM cannot be counter by m1 killers.
If a perk dictate what kind of killers are viable it is a terrible perk!
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Just imagine your experience as a new player in 2019.
You start a game as survivor, first it sucks but after you figure out how to play the game and get better you realize that you basically press m1 for 4min with some hide and chase with the killer.
If you start playing as killer you either have fun, because you can dictate the action or are frustrated because you lack of counterplay option.
The first time you run into a good SWF group you ask them, how did they know where you are ect. because since then you could play you killer fantasy. What voice? Isn't that cheating?
Every killer player was at that point if they never played in a SWF.
The actual matchmaking is frustrating to play with on both sides.
You can be the gen-jokey and depip.
You can occupy the killer the entire game and depip.
As killer you can 4k and depip.
You just feel robbed, until you realize that ranking up don't give you any rewards besides sweatier matches and longer queue times.
If you still want to play this game as a new player you walk into the bloodweb.
Over the time we got so many new perks that the grind has become insane. You can level up to 50 without getting all native perks at tier 3 even if you go for them every time they appear.
So you end up level 50 with a lot of tier 1 and 2 Perks and a bunch of add-ons, items and offering, half of them are of no use for you and your playstyle.
Besides KYF there are no option other than grind to try out new playstyles and perk combination so you get stuck in a repetitive grind with no clear sign that your effort payoff in the end.
TLDR: the game has become hostile and difficult for new players to get into and veteran players don't have a lot to do.
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Mint Rag Hag and Spirit could take advantage of Dark Devotion and maybe fun-build on Doctor?
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@Delfador said:
Normally I would be the first person to say that killers try to make everything forcing them to tunnel or camp but in this instance, you are right.
Normally, it takes 6 hits to kill a survivor.
If you tunnel, it is gonna feel as if you let them heal and didn't tunnel. 2 for initial down, 1 for second down, 2 for the third down. 5 hits to get them.
If you don't tunnel and let them heal, then they will take 7 hits to die and one of the chases will last really long due to 3 hits.
If you camp and don't let them save and force them to waste a hook phase, you completely avoid the perk.
You can amp it up!
Combine MoM with DH, a insta medkit, if you have time SC to 99% and a well timed Adrenaline and you will have a nice SWF challenge!
First hit MoM, SC to 100%, second hit DH, third hit instaheal, forth hit Adrenaline, fifth and sixth hit, finally down. This is only the second hook...btw. To sacrifice after an unhook you need to chase them down again. 1-2(3 with DH) hits.
So you can body block a hit for a friend, 1 hit, heal yourself up. Get in a chase 2(3) hits and land on the hook so in total the killer needs to hit that kind of survivor 9-10(11-13) times in total.
VS 6 for a perk-less survivor.
Yes this would be a perfect scenario, without any instaheals from other survivors or BT.
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@powerbats said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/405177#Comment_405177
As a solo player this would indeed suck and as swf I never run this and have rarely if ever seen people running this, especially since the update. You've also got people running it for the adept achievement.
The best solution would be to remove the perk and put something else in it's place along with an adept.
Lucky you, 1/3 of SWFs I encounter is using OoO especially after DS change I witness a higher use of the perk.
This may be a regional meta thing.
I can only report from my own experiences.
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@Peanits said:
A big part of it is down to the fact that a "win" is a nebulous thing in Dead by Daylight. For some, a win is getting all four kills. For other it's about ranking up. Some just play for hooks, some for points. The same goes for the survivor side of things, more or less. When someone is just playing for kills, it makes sense for them to camp or tunnel people. That is the fastest way for them to get to their goal. It wouldn't make much sense if they're after bloodpoints, though, since they'd be much better off spending their time chasing (especially if you consider BBQ & Chili).
What was the original win condition as the devs created the game?
What was their intended way of playing the game?
I understand that games, especially online games alter, evolve and change over time, but I am still curious. It's always interesting to see how a game has evolved.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/405162#Comment_405162
This is the issue I'm seeing with this as well. Particularly if you're a stealthier player, your playstyle gets dictated by a perk that somebody else on your team is using. One person on the team using Object of Obsession means the killer gets to know your location almost all the time.
How would you solve the free info without downside to even the field?
Or do you think it's not an issue and it is ok to get an additional perk just because of playing with friends/using voice?
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@Delfador said:
I am a solo survivor, while I understand your problem with SWF and OoO, I get punished heavily just because somebody else decides to run a perk.
I don't see this change happening.
You would get the same benefit as the OoO user when the killer could see you.
For the moment your location would be revealed, you could see the aura of the killer too.
You not get directly punished. You get access to informationen without using the perk.
Yes your location will be revealed, like with rancor when a gen pops. You see his AURA but the killer only sees your location.
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MoM with DH, Adrenaline and insta heal. Maybe DS or Deliverance and or a friend with BT.
Usually you need to hit a survivor 6 times during an entire match, now you have to hit him 6 only to take one down after the first hook.
Edit: take SC for 99% so you get an extra heal on top!
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Imagine a new killer perk, that after a hook and 3 hits the aura of the killer will be revealed to that survivor, he becomes the obsession and has exposed.
It would remove one hit, where MoM add one and reveal the aura after the third hit, not after the instadown, so it's even weaker and more fair then MoM. Right?
Who would love to face such a perk?
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4 times, because of some odd reason someone without any obsession perk was shown as the obsession. No I didn't run any obsession perks or a add-ons either.