Chewy102
Chewy102
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@THEghostface said:
Not related to the topic at all, but if you put distressing on Myers Combined with his add-on Dead Rabbit, distressing's effects are nullified while in tier 2, which is the onel you're mostly in. Myers remains stealthy, but with double points on stalking.
But his terror radius in T3 would be almost map wide. Giving him another form of stealth of being able to hide in his terror radius in a way.
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It's more than just Survivors being skins or the Killer being more than that. It's about what DbD was inspired by. Slasher movies.
You don't watch slasher/horror movies to see the people in it. You watch them to see the monsters, the murderer, the Killer of that movie!
You don't watch F13 to see camp life, you watch them to see Jason rip people apart. You don't watch NoES for the kids/teens, you watch them to see Freddy toy with people before killing them. Halloween, Pumpkinhead, Wishmaster, Leprechaun, Critters, The Thing, Child's Play, most EVERY horror movie you watch to see the monster/s in it and how they do their work in murdering everything. Even when the normal people are the main focus like in Monster Squad or even Hellraiser to a point, the monsters themselves are STILL screen hogging drama queens that steal the show the instant they come into play.
That's why DbD puts focus on Killers. You don't play DbD to be a Survivor and just hold M1 on gens that happens to get chased. You play DbD to either be the Killer or play against Killers. To live out those slasher movies that inspired DbD in the first place.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624668#Comment_624668
Survivors have perks that result in an additional hit needed to down them, and killers have perks that remove that additional hit away (MYC, NOED, Haunted Grounds, Devour Hope, etc.) I dont see a problem.
There are 4 Survivors and 1 Killer. Survivor perks are reusable based on a timer and/or conditions, Killer perks are based on actions and/or conditions.
Look at exhaustion perks. All of them are rather good and are on a timer that allows them to reuse the perk once per chase. Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, and Balanced Landing are all used to either dodge a hit or prolong the chase. EVERY chase those perks can be used and each time they get used it often prevents a hit effectively adding a health state. There are times you wont have those perks ready or they might not be really usable, but the majority of the time those perks do their job as and WHEN needed. Then you also have perks that are in truth are limited to once per game but do more than give a single health state. DS prevents being punished for unsafe unhooks and lasts longer than it should. Adrenaline is a full heal that is a lengthy speed boost who ALSO can NOT be prevented or denied, even if you are on a hook you get its full effect.
Killer perks that remove a health state are far, far, far more limited.
MYC needs you to already hook someone, allow them to be saved, then and only then can you have the CHANCE to remove a health state. If you find the correct Survivor and end that chase all within a timer after they are warned of your perk in the exposed status and screaming.
NOED only comes into effect when the game is over. All gens need to be powered and you need to have at least 1 dull totem still in play. Fail either condition and that perk does nothing the entire game while NOED is only able to be active when you have literal seconds left in the game.
Haunted Grounds require Survivors to cleanse either of its totems, lasts only for so long, can pop at any moment out of your control, and can't be used more than once. Often enough can might get 1 down with HG for the entire game. An entire perk slot, for a single hook out of the possible 12.
Devour Hope is yet another Hex perk that can be removed before even coming active. but DH also requires you to find, chase, and hook at least 3 people before you get one hit downs. It's unlimited duration, but just getting the chance to have that power often never happens. Leading to another wasted perk slot that comes into effect once every 3 or so games.
Rancor is only for when the game is already over and only for a single Survivor. A free Mori is nice though, but that Survivor is even shown exactly where you are multiple times throughout the game. Giving them odds of avoiding you to escape.
That's the difference. Survivor perks are often reusable (per CHASE) and/or are un-counterable. Killer perks are strictly limited (per GAME) with mutiple conditions and counters. That simply isn't fair in the LEAST when you also look at there being 4 Survivors each with reusable perks and just 1 Killer with restricted perks.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624409#Comment_624409
Same here. 1 guy in basement, another goes to makes the save. Steps in a trap or gets caught before making the save. 3 gens left. Game is pretty much over if the killer decides to camp it. And those were games where things were moving along just fine for survivors then BAM brick wall.
Each example you said is multiple Survivor mistakes on top of one another.
Someone in the basement means he was downed near the basement. That's one area you should be avoiding at all costs in a chase. Then another Survivor made another mistake to go into the basement for a save when it wasn't safe due to likely yet another mistake of no one pulling the Killer away. Unless the Killer is running a gimmick build of Agitation plus Iron Grasp, odds are you NEVER get to see the basement never mind hooking people in it.
3 gen setups only really happen if Survivors make the mistakes that allows it. They choose what gens are done and in what order. If they allowed themselves to get locked into a 3 gen, then they made a number of mistakes. Not seeing the Killer setting up a 3 gen, not seeing they are setting the 3 gen themselves, not spreading gen progress from the start, not pulling the Killer away from potential 3 gens, and maybe a couple more.
And camping, my god. Camping is one of the worst things you can do as Killer. You are giving up all map pressure to secure a single Kill. One single hook, one single kill, and at the cost of the entire game. No more chases, no more hits, no more hooks, there should be NOTHING to gain from camping! But yet it somehow does work. Why? Survivors don't bother to punish camping most of the time and even reward it. Simply running at hooks or not (again) pulling the Killer away. Likely from it being 100% unacceptable for ANYONE to die. Players are just another resource like pallets. Use them! In life and death.
It takes multiple mistakes from multiple Survivors for them to suffer consequences. But Killer? Miss a single attack or take a single pallet stun and a chase can extend another 20 seconds. A single failed mindgame can do the same thing. Or a single clip on a random box can cost running an extra loop. A SINGLE mistake is all it takes. Just 1 and the Killer suffers as that single mistake is against a single Survivor. There are still 3 others running about the map free to do anything they want multiplying those single mistakes massively.
Nitpick all Killer gameplay all you want, call out a tiny mistake here or there and blame losing the game on that. It only helps my point in how Killers need to play near perfect to just have a chance. A chance! Meanwhile Survivors can make multiple mistakes one after another because they still have to take up to 6 hits and be hooked up to 3 times before being at any real risk. And that's for ONE Survivor! There are 4 last I looked as well as before accounting for all the second chance perks, others helping out, or even bothering to use skilled gameplay.
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@Laakeri said:
Would he have lost even if he was running the "M1 killer" chase perk kit, good addons and made 0 mistakes (he made multiple, one could say game changing)? Maybe, but not as hard as he did.
This clip reminds me of somebody posting a game of Tru3 playing Doctor in Rotten Fields and in almost every chase he made multiple mistakes and people were shouting "unwinnable".
That's another balance point though. Killer mistakes are FAR more costly than Survivor mistakes. So much so that a single mistake can end up costing the game.
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Hillbilly.
Standing at the feet of a downed Survivor Billy slowly walks to stand to the side of his/her back. After forcefully kicking the Survivor over he instantly starts smashing their head with his hammer. First strike they go limp, 2nd strike splatters blood, the 3rd gets slightly stuck as Billy screams a grunt. Billy then stands back up without bothering to clean his weapon to find another.
Short, simple, and fitting. A bit samish to Trapper and Wraith, but Billy isnt about putting on a show. Just smack the ######### and end it.
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@Venoxxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/619684#Comment_619684
Um, solo ques? I've seen some horrible matchmaking in solo que'ing. And even if some people are in voice, doesn't mean they're completely organized. I've been in SWFs from time to time and occasionally when I give a heads up on something, no one listens because they're too busy listening to their own ego still or just messing around and having fun (not everyone plays to win).
Sorry that you've been paired against so many SWFs you forgot what solo ques are like. Who knows, if a SWF, the 13 might be somewhat new (its SUPER easy to rank up and a lot of higher ranked friends like to boost their friends).
If you are in solo, how would SWF match making effect you? You'd be matched with Killers in your own rank exactly like it should be.
If you a are worried about a couple of low rank players being dragged into high rank through SWF. ######### them. You're solo, make use of their deaths to farm BP and jump the hatch as their friends babysit them. Its their choice to be in SWF, so they should be accountable for that choice. If they cant handle it, then they can stay out of SWF till either they learn how to play or their friends derank.
It's like jumping straight into hard mode. You should find gameplay harder from skipping ahead before you're ready. And if they drag the team down, blame THEM! Not the Killer, not solo players, blame the idiots playing outside their means.
Better that than having high rank players go against low ranks. It's called Smurfing. A skilled player abusing the system to be matched in easy games to either feed an ego or simply be an ass. That's a clear bannable offense in most other competitive games.
Ranks, although most assume are worthless, are there for a reason. Bypassing them should never be acceptable for any reason.
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@RakimSockem said:
Just start using them.
As a survivor main, I've starting just randomly using all those brown bloodpoint boost things that i normally ignore
I agree with this. If you build up a good supply of items on one character, use them to farm blood points to spend on someone else.
Save a chunk of BP with using your Spirit overstock and give other Killers a try. You have a lot of Killers in DbD, no need to stick with just 1 all the time. Yes, most Killers arent viable in higher ranks. But playing multiple Killers just makes the game more fun as a whole and a lot less stale.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/590867#Comment_590867
Some but not all, they played like hundreds of games!!! Won an insanely amount I heard, close to 99% I think. How do you know the nurses weren't good? What if the survivors made that nurse appear to be bad? That's what survivors always say..."this nurse sucks". I don't see a problem with nurse because if nurse was a problem, guess what? The depipers would have lost to most of the nurses they faced. Ironically I think they lost to other killers more so than the nurse. Nurse requires an insanely amount of practice to even have a chance at beating survivors like the depip squad. I'm not even sure the best nurse could beat the depip squad. BlinkyBill unfortunately doesn't stream anymore but he was considered a God Nurse and lost to the depip squad. Maybe someone could find the video of him losing to them.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/590873#Comment_590873
The only thing that has really changed is self care being nerfed that would effect them. This is moot because they didn't even self care because they rushed gens.
There is something else I haven't seen pointed out.
Killers going against the Depip Squad could prepare to face them. Several Killers did that in fact and it is because the Killer knows who the Survivors are before the game starts. This is a built in advantage for Killers for cases just like that. If the Killer sees certain names, items, or what not. He can then alter his build to counter them. Still didn't help much though seeing how insanely high their win rates was.
But that doesn't work the other way around. Survivors can't (or shouldn't at least) know who the Killer player is nor what Killer is being played before. This instantly effects how much the data is worth. No Survivor, solo nor SWF, should ever be able to prepare against the Killer and must play "normally".
The differences makes having a fair comparison not really possible. Depip data is skewed more towards high skilled gameplay from having more than the average of tryhard Killers being able to prepare against a known tryhard Survivor team. Slagu data is skewed from having a tryhard Killer going against nothing but average players.
Im not saying this experiment is worthless. Just worth less than others from being more lopsided. Depip data was filled with its own share of lopsided info, but it at least had the ability to show equally skilled gameplay unlike Slagu data.
Plus another thing to note is more or less EVERY "tournament" DbD has had, offical or fan made, has had next to no influence from the Killer. They have always been more about how well Survivors can do against other Survivors. Leaving Killer mostly ignored. Putting bias towards Survivors being in control in any organized form of gameplay leaving Killer gameplay to be a supporter at best..
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@Orion said:
Yes. I thought it was my browser and was about to look up a solution. The CPU usage is off the charts.
Holy crap. My CPU is running at 45% when looking at these forums!
An i7 7700k, jumping to 45% by looking at a website.
The #########?!
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I don't think DbD does much culling. Once you are in a map, the entire thing is rendered/loaded at any time outside of a few props like barrels that derender based on distance. Even the Killer is rendered at all times, for the Killer himself. If you look at your own shadow as Killer, you will see your entire body twisted to form your 1st person view model. Chest/head pushed back, arms oddly stretched, ect.
A reason why so many games can get away with looking so much better is because they cull out EVERYTHING they can get away with. This reduces processing power by simply following the idea of "if you can't see or touch it, it doesn't exist". Combine that with lots of level of detail reducing processing even more, sometimes just making things 2D textures, and you have "powerhouse" games that look great while never using that much power.
Normally culling does wonders, but also causes its own problems. Mainly pop in. Turning your camera fast can allow you to see more pop in and some games even have things in their default T-pose for a moment. Kingdom Come: Deliverance has this bad. That game looks freaking great but has real pop in problems. You can see all grass/bushes be standing straight up THEN slump over every time you move your mouse and anytime you move an object it leaves a shadow ring for a moment where it was. I thought my monitor or cables was going bad when I first seen that shadow effect to be honest and it isn't the only game to do this either.
It isn't really as easy as "just upgrade the graphics". If DbD is made to keep the map loaded at all times it is to prevent those kinds of problems like pop in. Keeping the map as consistent as possible no mater what is happening or who is looking at it. So boosting graphics wouldn't do much more than drive preformance in the dirt. It's a give/take. Making DbD look better would make it run worse and making DbD run better would make it look worse. You can't really get around that.
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@Riddick said:
On the rank you are, it isnt as hard as some people may lead you to think. You just have to be a quite entertaining killer. I caught a huntress trying to get adept recently that camped each hook. She obviously wouldnt get the adept achievement like that.
2 points from a perfect game isn't what I'd call "isn't that hard". Even in low ranks having a near perfect game is rather difficult and that's also if you have a proper build.
To make it worse, Killer emblems are counter productive to each other.
Chaser needs a LOT of chases. But that takes time and prevents you from defending gens for Gatekeeper. Defending gens means you are being active in chasing people lowering total chases and hooks hurting other emblems. Some Killers even have powers that harm their own emblems.
And all Survivor has to do is escape and nothing else. You can AFK in a locker all game and still earn a Survivor adept.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541905#Comment_541905
But then you are disproportionately affecting killers. Huntress is a top tier killer but only when she's on a good map. If she gets a bad map she becomes a lot weaker. Or Billy, who is a strong killer on most maps, would be punished EVEN MORE on Lery's or Game. And then a weaker killer like LF gets a bonus on a map like Shelter Woods where he's actually pretty good because it's a good basement map.
It would need to be on a killer-map basis, not just purely the killer.
I don't think you understand just how much work you are asking for.
If you balance each map for each Killer, then you would have to adjust each of the 27 maps for each of the 16 Killers. That's 432 combinations right there of what Killer and map it is! 432 different games of gameplay you have to account for in overall balance. It doesn't even take map RNG into factor at all either that drives the total possible outcomes into the tens of thousands.
It's an insane amount of work and just isn't going to happen. Even if you ignore map RNG, that's still 432 combinations of map/Killer and you'd have to adjust balance for EACH ONE if you go by individual Killer.
But if you group the Killers into the 3 top/mid/low tiers and balance around those. Then it is just 81 possible map versions you have to deal with. You don't even have to work on all 81 maps either as the game already has systems in place that automatically adjusts the map. All you would need to make is 3 forms of map RNG and link the Killers to those based on the devs/communities tier opinions and current meta. Then simply let the game do the work for you and adjust as needed.
And if there happens to be a Killer that doesn't do well in a certain map. Deal with it. RNG is RNG, Survivors can't pick what Killer they go against so the Killer shouldn't be able to cherry pick the map. But if you really need to have a certain map or avoid another, just use a map offering like everyone else.
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@Jacoby2041 said:
That's actually not a bad idea, I think it could even the odds a bit for lower tier killers. However, I'd prefer they just made weaker killers better directly as opposed to giving them slightly more favor in maps. I want a killer to be good and viable for who they are and what they do, not for what effect they have on the map's RNG
That isn't really possible though. Killer powers are just too different for them all to be equal. It would end with less unique Killers in total. And the uniqueness of Killers is a main factor in DbD.
Plus that's a ######### load of work attempting to balance, rebalance, and rework each of the 16 Killers over and over and over again as the game progresses. Work smarter, not harder.
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@anarchy753 said:
One of the biggest issues that's obvious already is that Nurse is mostly strong because she ignores pallets entirely, or uses them for a free hit. Adding more pallets to a map doesn't make her more balanced.
Nurse is the odd man out. Can't really do much to balance a good Nurse other than accept death. But every other Killer in the game can be balanced around adding or removing the total amount of pallets.
Billy can deal with more total pallets from his chainsaw. But Cannibal has a chainsaw as well, but can't really deal with higher number of pallets from having weaker mobility when using his saw. Having both of these Killers face the same map RNG isn't really balanced at all as one is going to be clearly stronger than the other. Making the Cannibal less and less played the higher in rank you go.
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@thesuicidefox said:
I would like something like this but it should go by good/bad maps for a killer. For example, every map that is not Macmil or Autohaven are bad for Huntress, so every map but those should have killer favored RNG if it is Huntress. And then like, Doc is borderline OP on Game, so it should always favor survivors if it's Doc. Something like that.
However the issue is, how do we determine which maps should favor which killer/survivors and to what extent should they be favored. In that sense, I feel like something like this would be impossible to implement in a actual fair way.
That's why you don't do it by individual Killers and by individual maps. You base it around the devs picking if that Killer fits into strong/average/weak groups and balance the map RNG around those groups.
In a VERY rough example not based on anything but to give an idea.
High tier Killer played, spawn 25 pallets.
Mid tier Killer played, spawn 20 pallets.
Low tier Killer played, spawn 15 pallets.
High tier Killers should be strong enough to deal with more pallets and loops so they get more of them to give Survivors more chances. But low tier Killers can't deal with that many pallets due to any of several reasons, so they get less pallets to give the Killer more chances.
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@wichael_wyers said:
@Chewy102 Honestly, it sounds like a really cool idea. Although it sounds ideal, something tells me there might be something missing or not quite right. I agree that some killers adapt to many situations way better than others, but it'd somewhat of a shame if someone who mains possibly Trapper or Wraith wanted a good challenge and can't because the maps that spawn are always consistently easier. It could be an option maybe? I'm not sure. Regardless, it's a pretty cool idea.
It is more to standardize difficulty between the Killers. Currently, playing a high tier Killer is more easy than playing a low tier Killer. In an extreme example, a good Nurse will dominate a game compared to a good Freddy struggling to land a single kill. Both players can be equally skilled, but the Killers they play as chooses their challenge.
But if the map RNGed to somewhat even that challenge out, then maybe low tier Killers would be played more often in higher ranks. And then the ranking system could be what defines how skilled the players are instead of what Killer they play as.
Trapper for example needs to spend some time setting up traps. That's time spent to "maybe" get a reward and is time you often don't have to start with. Trapper after setting up still needs to run though loops, breaking pallets, and landing hooks. But if you spent time early game setting up, then mid/late game you can't defend anything with gens spread over the map. And trying to setup mid/late game is even harder as your traps can be disarmed faster than you set them, can be destroyed for a while, and you still have to travel the entire map multiple times over to gather the damned things.
If Trapper had map RNG that spawned less pallets, or more in his favor as a slower paced Killer, the time he spent setting up is worth a LOT more! Less places to be looped means your traps see more use and the time spent on setting traps isn't really wasted when there are still 20 other loops right next to them.
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Do you know the reason for those walls near windows or why they are in such tight spaces on one side and not the other?
It is limit fast vaults and make coming from that side harder and make a flow for the maps. You either go with the flow or fight against it. If you could just fast vault any window from anywhere then it could, or would, be abused like the old infinite loops. A free time sink the Killer could do nothing against but eat it.
No mind games, no counter play, just running in a circle without having to know the maps and how to make the best use of them.
Skill has MANY parts to it. Learning the map and how to run it is one such part. So details like this IS what makes up skilled Survivor gameplay. You gotta know the maps better, gotta learn how to run them, and you can't just hold shift+W all game.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I'm not disagreeing with your primary point, but some of those killers you listed off as a default M1 killers that don't need to be played around aren't very accurate. Plague you need to play around her vomit and fountains. If you just run around in circles around pallets and rush gens then you are going to have a bad time.
With Pig you can't just ignore her reverse bear traps. You need to find the key and get it off or you'll die. She also has some mind game potential with her dashes in loops. With Wraith and Legion, yeah, those two are pretty much loop and gen rush as usual. They might get off an easier first hit, but you don't really do anything fundamentally different against them.
But I think you are confusing the killers overall effectiveness with survivors needing to change their playstyle. Just because a killer isn't top tier doesn't mean that you can ignore their ability.
With Plague, you need to deal with being Broken but a common strat is to never cleanse yourself to deny Plague her Corrupt Purge. So gameplay is still just loop the Plague like normal. Being broken hurts Survivors but they can just make use of the 32m terror radius, red stain, and the Plague's tall height to loop sooner and better.
Pig has some stealth but moves slow while crouched and trying to land an ambush is one of the hardest things to do with her roar starting so early. Plus to put a RBT on someone, you have to down them. Meaning you already been through loops to land 2 hits. Gameplay against the Pig is still nothing but looping the moment you know where she is.
That's my point. You CAN ignore most Killer powers! The only Killer powers you can't ignore are for Nurse, Huntress, Shape, and Spirit. Those you must play around at all times or suffer for it. Every other Killer in the game it is just loop them for as long as possible and "maybe" have to deal with their powers if at all.
That's the entire defining factor for if a Killer is low/mid/top tier. How much Survivors need to react to their power. Top tier needs Survivors to play around the Killer power, mid/low tier is just loop the Killer and maybe play around their power.
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Hag + Wraith.
Able to place hard to see and reusable traps (traps that don't despawn or needing resetting after triggering) that allow him/her to teleport to them once triggered that are then despawned. But Survivors wouldn't know the traps was tripped and teleporting to one would have the Killer be invisible as well needing to uncloak before attacking giving the Survivors and Killer a little time for counter play between each other.
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I don't think this has to deal with anti camping or slugging. It to prevent the Ghost's power from being too strong. If the downed/hooked Survivors didn't reveal Ghost then he could make use of his stealth to instantly know where someone else is the moment they look at him without having to work for that information.
Ghost has one of the best information gathering powers in the game. He knows when a Survivor is looking at him and WHERE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMjkk9fY9NI&t=638s@9:58 Tru3 had no idea there was 2 Survivors near him. He walked past them and would have never had a chance to find either if not for the Ghost's power telling him. Leading to exposing both Survivors, an instant down, and a hook. That Survivors momentary glance at the Ghost told the Killer not only he was there but lead to the Killer gaining an advantage.
(anyone else have these forums almost die on them? Took an hour to post this reply.)
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I cant remember where it was posted but it in fact takes longer than 1.5 seconds to break his stealth. You have to first get past the .3 second buffer in order to start breaking his stealth taking it to a total 1.8 seconds to break the Ghost out of stealth in the best case.
It isn't just that either. Survivors now have to put the Ghost closer to their center screen as well as buffing how much of the Ghost they need to see to start with. So if the Ghost is peeking you might not be able to break his stealth at all, not enough of him visible, and the Ghost moving, between hard cover or through soft cover, can take him out of their center screen. Both of these instantly restarts that buffer timer. Maybe multiple times over and that buffer time adds up giving Ghost time to stalk/expose or get close before losing his stealth.
So in the best case, it takes at least 1.8 seconds to break his stealth. But with poor line of sight it could be much much longer, if even possible to do so without going into the open and taking risk yourself.
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@mistar_z said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/515330#Comment_515330
I wouldn't want to see that. The fountains should stay visible. They're a way to get rid of the status afterall.
Survivors would want to cleanse themselves before that could be a problem. Most choose to stay broken for as long as possible to not waste time and more importantly not give Plague her far stronger Corrupt Purge.
The risk of staying broken is often the better option rather than be hit in the face with a filthy flamethrower. So blindness could work considering it would hurt the Plague by making it harder or less likely to use her true power.
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Remember that spirit was super bad in the ptb and that she's now a top tier killer
The Spirit was a functional Killer in her PTB. Might have been a few bugs but you could play the Spirit fully to see what her strengths and weaknesses was.
Ghost is a broken Killer in his PTB. A non functional power in it being instantly drained if someone so much as glances at you. Can't stealth, can't stalk, can't expose, there just ANY way to test the Ghost at the moment thanks to his power being beyond broken.
We can't even tell if he is good or bad yet if we can never get to use his power. The Ghost is simply broken and I fear that this is going to be a wasted PTB based off of that.
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@Victor_hensley said:
I go in EDT and it is 1 hour away!
Im downloading it as i type this post.
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@DarkGGhost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/504601#Comment_504601
No, when this happens you one that at least one survivors have at least one of the top perk. Tell me if in one game we have two DS or two MoM what is the extra condition that the nonobsession survivor has to do in order to activate the perk? Nothing. And that's one of the big problems the obsessions perk ( survivors) have, you get the full effect with no downside.
To add to this. Killer obsession perks often help their obsession as well.
Play With Your Food and Save the Best for Last. You want to keep the obsession alive as long as possible and avoid even hitting them at all costs. Going after your obsession with these perks means you are hurting yourself as Killer.
Dark Devotion is another Killer obsession perk that needs the Killer to keep his obsession alive in order to use. You can hit your obsession at least to gain its effects, but to use this perk you are best to hit the obsession and just leave them alone.
Remember Me almost falls in the same boat as DD. You want to hit your obsession as much as possible, but not kill them outright. You as Killer want to drag out chases with your obsession in order to build RM stacks. Avoiding one shots (if you have it), allowing them to heal after a hook save, and only THEN will the Killer want to kill his obsession. That's a lot of time adding up against the Killer in chases and can likely cost a game. But the obsession himself suffers zero downsides from RM itself and is in fact immune to RMs effects!
Dying Light, a perk built to force the Killer to kill his obsession ASAP in order to get any worth out of it as well gives the obsession a buff! 50% faster actions in healing and unhooking others? That's insanely good for as long as the obsession can make use of it. The obsession can even use DL in another way as making himself bait. Drawing the Killer away from everyone else so they can burn out gens before he dies and they get the debuff.
The only Killer obsession perk that gives any real danger to the obsession is Rancor. Rancor exposes the obsession after all gens are done and allows them to be killed by mori.
6 Killer perks for the obsession mechanic, and only 2 of them have a negative effect on the obsession. The others either do nothing to the obsession himself or even help the obsession in one way or another. Thanks to patch 2.1.0 the entire Survivor team is now even told if the obsession is in a chase or not. That's rather strong information to be given for free.
There is almost no downside to being the obsession in near ANY case! Outside of Rancor, being the obsession is by far more help than harm.
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@HatCreature said:
I don't think we should complain about something that should be tested in the PTB BEFORE THE PTB COMES OUT. We were given details but no REAL details, those details were a ''hello how are you'' but the PTB will gives us a nice slap to the face make you my #########. When the PTB comes out we can test our theories with facts, instead of speculation complaints.
What I am about to say is not a complaint but a worry, I think it'll be too easy to break his stealth ability. We can sneak up on people but there are 4 Survivors in 3rd person, we have a 1st person view and someone could be to our far right without us knowing and they can watch us and completely negate our ability. Basically we could have every player be an OoO without having the perk, we can stalk Survivors but they can stalk us too.
Also Premonition is a good perk but it has never been a problem for me, I'm surprised to see it is for some people and I'm glad I haven't met skilled users of it yet.
One detail said in the stream is that Ghost cant stalk people once he is spotted. That is something to worry about if you ask me.
4 seconds doesn't sound like long but mid chase it's a lifetime. So you might not get a chance to expose someone mid chase at all. But if you can't stalk anyway once spotted then it only makes Ghost a bog standard M1 Killer as you simply cant abuse cockiness to expose someone like Shape can mid chase.
The PTB should give all the details we need. But till then it's all guess work
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The main reason Spine Chill doesn't work against the Shape in EW1 is because the Shape is extremely slow in EW1 and has next to no lunge range. The only thing Shape has going for him in EW1 is his 8m terror radius and nothing else. Shape has to be immune to detection perks or else Shape couldn't function against them. Survivors would see their perk trigger and run off preventing Shape from ever stalking them. Keeping the Shape stuck in EW1 for much too long and would likely never earn a kill.
Pig and Wraith aren't immune to detection perks because they don't have such a weakness. Their stealth is countered by detection perks but those Killers have other ways to get around them in mix/matching their power use with standard M1 chases.
The Ghost is going to be the same way. His stealth is even better than the Pig and Wraith as well with having an instant 0 terror radius, no red stain, AND keeps his full 115% move speed! That's serious potential if you ask me and detection perks are a worthwhile counter that needs to be a thing. You can even get around Spine Chill as Killer by using the sides of your vision as a counter counter. Adding skill into the game by figuring out how to beat each other as needed. And although you can't counter Premonition as Killer, Survivors running that or other detection perks means something else.
Survivor running detection perks aren't running a full meta build! DbD meta in general might be changed up and that's ALWAYS a good thing in my opinion.
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@TheShape78 said:
I agree, but my understanding is Funworld not only has rights to the mask, but the knife and movie robe as well. We have the mask and knife, so maybe they'll add the robe. Also, there are a number of references to the Scream films in this Ghostface dlc.
When was the last time you looked at the original robes? They are literally one of those cheap halloween costume you'd buy a walmart. That's a main point in the moive as well. Anyone could be Ghostface as anyone can just buy that costume off store shelves and go on to kill people.
I for one like that the devs made their own version. It isn't something I see 100 people use every single year. Ghostface, Grim Reaper, random phantom, those same robes are used for EVERYTHING! I for one could never not see a Killer in those robes as anything but some kid pestering people like Iv watched them do for decades now. Hell, I did that myself as a kid!
What you should be asking or is Ghostface in a suit! The same grey suit they shown in the dev stream.
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Getting on top of stuff is only an exploit if it breaks gameplay in some way. Being untouchable is one such example, and likely the only example of an exploit as it is more or less the only thing that can cause a stalemate.
But making use of a drop point to get over a wall/pallet, that shouldn't be a problem at all. Killers can use this start in number of places really. Harvesters on Coldwind maps, a Killer can lunge around them to smack someone waiting at the bale ramp. There was once a few spots on Haddonfield where you could jump off a roof over a fence/hedge.
It's cleaver map usage. Survivors and Killers can use them to their advantage if they happen to find one. Just as long as you aren't clipping into something or using it to cause a stalemate, you'll be fine.
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/499730#Comment_499730
I agree, I've noticed that as well
Question is, have you noticed how many Killers are built to do that?
A few are good at all those but most aren't good at all in effecting more than a single person. Clown, Wraith, Pig, ect simply cant pressure more than 1 person at a time. Shape, Hag, Trapper, ect can somewhat pressure more than 1 person but takes time to setup. Billy and Nurse also can only just pressure multiple people thanks to their chainsaw and blink mobility as well as power.
The emblem system just doesn't support the majority of Killers in the game and it gets worse in higher ranks when the pip requirements go through the roof needing almost constant perfect games to just be sustainable.
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Being a launch player and a stubborn jackass, Im still in the mindset that higher blood points should reflect doing well and thus be rewarded in rank.
Before the emblem system it felt horrible to earn over 20K BP as Killer and get a black pip. 20k was once 2 pip worthy and to only get a black pip felt like a gut shot. In the emblem system though, it just got so much worse. 25K BP games end in a black pip. Iv had up to 27K black pip games multiple times! That's a freaking kick in the nuts.
To work your ass off to earn BP by hunting people, landing hit after hit, downing/hooking them, making proper use of your power all throughout, and doing it ALL within only a few minutes before the game ends is a crap load of effort. Getting told "meh, you did average" with a black pip, or worse losing with even getting a depip at times, kills any motivations I had to play the game.
Today I had plenty of time to play DbD. Just ended up sitting here listening to Pandora instead before going to work.
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@prayer_survivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/498708#Comment_498708
"... make looping not as rewarding..."
Killers have perks to see survivors when hooking another one, when a survivor go out from a closet, when survivors are close when they hit someone, when survs are close when a survivor is put in dying state, when survs are healing, when 2 or more survs are in the same gen, when survs are doing gens, when crows are near survs, when gens are done, when survs are cleansing totems, when survs are near you.
We can't do anything else but loop.
To use BBQ, you have to first hook someone. And that first hook can take some time and often cost 1-3 gens by itself. Then once you do get that aura reading it is way off in the distance. Taking more time to simply reach them and that's if they don't bother to move from that spot. There is also other counters as well in hiding behind a gen to block your aura, running your own perk/s to prevent aura reading, or just waiting for the Killer to come so you can just loop him anyway far from the hooked so someone else can save.
How often have you seen people even USE lockers? Outside of low ranks it almost doesn't exist. By far most people will simply run off to gain ground or to make it to a loop in order to waste as much time as possible instead of risking stealth.
A perk that reveals someone else when hitting another doesn't exist. There is a perk that makes people scream when you DOWN someone else, but not on hit. Besides, Calm Spirit is a thing that prevents you from screaming when getting hit yourself or when effected by something that would make you scream like the Doctor or some perk.
Nurse's only works if you are well within the terror radius. Don't heal when you hear the heartbeat, easy as that. Maybe you should instead be avoiding the Killer as much as possible and use that terror radius to keep distance rather than risk letting him get close when you are wounded.
When 2 Survivors are working on a gen, Discordance shows the gen as yellow. Doesn't show the Survivors, just that gen and its effect stays up to 12 seconds AFTER they stop working that gen! One person work the gen and another tap it. You just instantly baited the Killer to that location away from somewhere else.
Are you really complaining about Spies from the Shadows? That perk has been nerfed to the freaking ground. Shortened range, added a 5 second cooldown, and there are so few crows on the map that Spies simply isn't going to tell you anything. Might get 1-2 useful pings per game if that and that's on people you are likely already chasing.
Bitter Murmur isn't really worth running. Rancor is much better. But both of them don't really help as the information can rarely be used. Odds are you are stuck being looped when gens are finished and those gens are going to be a distance away. Worthless and you'd just give up a chase being looped in one spot in order to maybe be looped somewhere else if you happen to find someone. The only reason Rancor is better is because it gives a free mori on your obsession after all gens are done.
I honestly don't recall any perk that tells you when a totem is being cleansed. Thrill of the Hunt tells you when someone is cleansing a Hex totem, but not dulls. Even then you have to use half of your perks to run a Hex build. Something most Killers can never hope to protect and end up being without perks before the game ends. So there is nothing preventing you from cleansing all the dull totems you want to prevent NOED. You can even use TotH to bait the Killer by spam tapping a Hex totem to annoy the ######### out of him. That alone makes TotH worthless as someone can just spam click a Hex to make the Killer deaf and clutter his screen with pings.
Whispers has a 32m radius. That's rather large and often as worthless as being told there are still Survivors on the map itself with up to 4 people coming in and out of that 32m. Whispers becomes powerful once you start killing off people as the less people there is the less muddy that information becomes. But you have to manage to kill people first. And if the first hook of the game can cost you 1-3 gens, odds are the game isn't going to last long enough for you to kill enough people to use Whispers. All thanks looping eating what little time a Killer has.
Survivors have plenty of options in perks to run or starts to use against anything in the game. But as most of them are situational most Survivors fall back on meta builds and looping as it is too damn good and rewarding. Why avoid the Killer and risk being out of position when you can just loop? Why bother learning anything but looping when looping is THAT good?
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First impressions based off his leaks tells me that Ghost isn't going to be anymore than mid tier. Workable in low to maybe mid ranks and can be fun to play, but found lacking when playing against any proper team of Survivor be they solo or SWF.
Ghost is a stealth Killer, with the full 32m terror radius. That instantly puts him at a real disadvantage as you can't get close to stalk someone without them knowing you are there. The Ghost does have a secondary power that removes his terror radius, until seen by a Survivor, but that as well gives any/everyone a VERY clear warning. Ghost is a stealth Killer that tells people he is there. Kinda defeats the main point of being stealth.
The main power to stalk any one person to expose them sounds good on paper but in what Iv seen it isn't going to help that much. You can't stalk someone in stealth as you warn everyone you are there and you can't stalk someone mid chase as it slows you to a crawl. Plus the exposed status only lasts so long. If someone gets ANY kind of lead on you, then odds are you wont be able to make use of their exposed status and just be looped like normal.
It all reads like another M1 Killer who isn't going to see much play after his "new car scent" wares off.
There is another part to this though. The devs have said multiple times that they plan on reworking maps again and will detail the changes on Friday. That can possibly changed EVERYTHING! If they somehow (not going to happen) make looping not as rewarding then the entire game changes. "Mid tier" Killers that have useful powers and those that just depend on M1 could be finally be viable.
But without those map details, playing the Ghost myself, or at least seeing enough gameplay videos of him Im just talking out my ass.
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@ArashiNoHanta said:
I completely agree: as killer is way too easy to lose a survivor due to the music being too loud
Why did you necro a post made in Oct 2018?
Granted sounds have broken a few times in the past and are kinda wack again, but to necro such an old post is worthless and wont do anything. People will just see this as a necro post and ignore it.
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@thesuicidefox said:
Why do you care about Steam forums when we have official forums here?
Why wouldn't I want to use the Steam forums? It's the original home for the DbD community, is rather active, open to have proper discussions, easily accessible being built in Steam itself, and tends to be worth reading most of the time. I'd like to say that the Steam forums is the first place most people go to as well for questions and what not. It would be a bad idea to ignore the Steam forums.
These forums aren't bad, but they are only a part of the community holding likely the smallest part of the DbD community.
Reddit is in my opinion the worst. It's a freaking circle jerk filled with 90% memes, 10% details, and not a single discussion to be found.
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@not_Queen said:
We have been maintaining minimal support on Steam forums because of the lack of manpower. Mandy and Luzi have been troopers to support the Steam forums even if they had to look over official forums.
Maybe in the future we are going to review this policy, but for now (and since we opened our official forums) we are concentrating on the official forums as they are more inclusive for the users of all platforms.
Im not asking to add to your workload by doing something you already done several times over. If the N/A sub forum isn't being updated, just remove it. It no longer serves any reason.
You guys make what information there is VERY well known! Steam News tab in the community, these forums, in game, and even reddit posts. If you can't find the information when it is THAT wide spread, you're blind.
All Im suggesting is to do a little spring cleaning.
If the N/A sub-forum doesn't need to be there, and it clearly doesn't for a number of reasons already listed, just remove it. Make the general discussions sub-form default again. It looks better for potential players and certainly would help in sales figures. First impressions means a lot, and if the first thing someone sees on Steam is a long dead rotting corpse "News" sub-forum. That tends to turn people away.
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@Blueberry said:
I find her fun but she's quite weak. Probably mid tier at best.
That's the problem. "Mid tier" for Killer is a joke compared to default Survivors.
You are either top tier or nothing these days. There almost isn't a "mid tier" anymore when almost no Killer can stand their ground against good Survivor teams.
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@LPS11 said:
If the killer can just stand there and make you wait double the time on the ground slugged just to watch the entity kill you then survivors shouldn't have the timer go any faster , I'll put this in the way everyone else does when it's the other way around "ItS oNlY 2 mInUtEs"
But it is only 4 minutes max. Compare that the near infinite amount of time people could do hatch stalemates or waiting at a gate from before, 2-4 minutes is nothing. But only this time it is the Survivor being forced to wait.
The way I read posts like yours is that it was perfectly fine to force the Killer to wait before and waste their time. By the moment you have your time wasted, it's scorched earth responses.
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Someone else, I can't remember who, once suggested that Freddy should have a minor form of teleporting by allowing Freddy to interact with objects at range.
By aiming at an object (windows, pallets, and/or lockers) and pressing CTRL Freddy teleports behind and uses it. Aim at a window or pallet, Freddy instantly vaults from the other side back towards his original direction. Aim at a locker and Freddy steps out of it. This would give Freddy an ability to cut people mid chase to help in downing them. Giving reason for a need to spend time sleeping people to start with.
See someone going for a window or pallet? Vault through it yourself to cut them off! Someone running past a locker? Jump out of it to give them a freight!
This would counter his inability to even touch someone without them sleeping. Time spent waiting for someone to fall asleep would be saved by having a stronger chase. This could also be used for slightly faster map travel. Depending on its range and line of sight, you could in theory skip across parts of the map going from one tile to another.
It also fits Freddy's lore of being anywhere and everywhere at anytime in his nightmare. Always showing up next to, in front, or behind someone right before toying with them.
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The gate progress should be segmented in my opinion. It has 3 red lights, so give gate handles 3 segments that require you to hit 33% or 66% breakpoints to keep your progress if you have to leave it.
99% gates aren't really a problem to be honest, but it also shouldn't be a thing anyway.
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@CallMeSpidey said:
I've said it before, this game doesn't care if you're good if Hitboxes are a problem.
And as many have also said before. Know what you are talking about before complaining.
DbD is an online game.It takes time (lag) for data to be sent from one person to another and that is going to effect everything within a game. If you want to react to something in an online game you need to account for said lag. This isn't a single player game where you can wait till the very last micro-second and expect to not be punished.
Say you have a ping of 50ms. That is 50 mirco seconds, or .05 of a second delay. This means ANY time you move or do anything, it takes .05 seconds for that input to be sent to another player. It isn't just the ping either. It takes time for you see an action, time to press a button in reaction, THEN the input data is sent, and finally animations play out. All in all, that time adds up. Fast. Reaction times alone for the average human can be a staggering .25 of a second. Meaning that the VERY low ping of 50ms, is a full .30 of a second delay. Higher pings makes things worse as a normal 80-100ms ping is .08-.10, taking it to a .33-.35 second reaction delay in reaction time and lag ALONE! You then STILL have animation times that effect things even further!
Host or client both share this delay. So in the posted video him waiting for the very last moment is often too late as the Killer already started an attack and maybe landed a hit before OP likely pressed a button to start with. Reaction in online gaming isn't really reacting at all, it is prediction.
And if you think Dedicated Servers are going to help, you have no idea at all. Dedicated servers add ANOTHER segment in the data chain that adds even MORE time to it all. P2P is you to the host and host to you. Servers is you to the server to the other player or the other play to the server then to you. In a fast paced melee focused game like DbD, dedicated servers wont help in the least and will likely ruin the game.
TL:DR
It isn't hitboxes. Never was. It's just normal everyday online gaming.
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It's likely a data farm for default balance. Almost no one plays default anymore other than the devs and getting new data for it should help in adjusting core gameplay. Then they can compare that to live with perks/items to see how far off the balance really is.
Fundamentals and foundation data in other words.
I unable to join anyway. Work nights so I'll be sleeping in those times to not be trashed for work.
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@makayla said:
I painstakingly spent most of my time on DbD the past 2 days getting killer adepts, and let me tell you how bad of an idea it was. Not only do the perks suck but I purposefully had to derank to yellow ranks to even have a chance at double pipping easily and I had to play like an idiot to farm emblems. Idk why the devs thought the change to the achievement was necessary, it's so stupid.
Even at rank 15 you have to earn 2 gold and 2 iridescent emblems for a 2 pip. That is never done "easily". Rank ######### TWENTY (20) is the SAME!
Yeah you are likely to do great in Gatekeeper against low ranks, but everything else is going to suffer. Not enough hits in total from no one healing after being unhooked, not enough hook events from people not saving people before the next hook stage, not enough chases from them having no idea how to loop, all of those suffer when playing against low ranks. It gets worse than that when some Killers just don't work well with the emblem system.
Some Killer powers seem to work against earning emblems. Trapper, Plague, Billy, and Cannibal has a problem with Chaser from using their powers too well. Someone stepping in a trap, getting broken from vomit, or being hit with a one shot doesn't give enough progress to Chaser. So the better you use those powers the worse your emblem will be!
I understand why they wanted the emblem system. The community asked for ranks to mean something, so the devs made it harder to rank up. But the community is filled with idiots who don't know what they want! Ranking ALWAYS had meaning to it! People just didn't like playing against tryhards so they avoided ranking up for being unfun. Then once people stopped ranking, or just started deranking, lobby times got longer and longer so even more people avoided high ranks. Finally people just assumed ranking up was worthless, due to a problem they caused from high ranks being balanced like piss!
If the game had better balance, ranking without a doubt wouldn't be seen unfun. But that requires more than 2 viable Killers in total and breaking up meta. This community goes on a rampage if the devs so much as think of touching the meta.
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@Dehitay said:
I guess it is entirely possible for the development team to miss the obvious fact that both being in the killer's terror radius and mending pause the deep wounds timer so there's 0 need to fear a Legion trying to force a deep wounds timeout. But that would be highly disappointing.
Is it even possible to force a DW or BT bleed out anymore thanks to it pausing inside a terror radius?
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@Delfador said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/475479#Comment_475479
What?
Genuinely asking, I didn't understand.
If the Killer is chasing someone, he can't defend gens. This is the number one reason why the 3 gen strat just doesn't work. The other main reason why the 3 gen strat doesn't work is because good Survivors don't mindlessly work the first gen they see and put a little effort into spreading them out preventing any possible 3 gen situation from the start.
There are only 2 ways a 3 gen setup can happen.
1, Survivors put themselves into it. This can be countered by learning the maps and not go from 1 gen to the next in a straight line. An extra 10 seconds of walking is often all it takes.
2, the Killer forgoes killing people in order to secure those 3 gens. This is just a troll game with a Killer that wants to do nothing but waste your time. It can even be a reason to report someone and likely ban worthy. The Killer that isn't attempting to kill people isn't playing the game. Not only that, there are only a few Killers that can make a 3 gen strat work int he first place.
You need either a one hit down or area denial (Billy, Cannibal, Trapper, and maybe Hag) in order to not be lead away in lengthy chases. You need Hangman's Trick to not run out of hooks. You need the map to RNG 3 gens and hooks close enough to start with. AND you need Survivors not smart enough to see this happening and don't bother to stop it. Ultimately the Killer going for a 3 gen strat is doing more harm to himself than anything.
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@DarkWo1f997 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/472942#Comment_472942
They really spawn way too close to eachother, that’s my only gripe. But this has been a long time issue.
It's pure RNG. In my personal games the gates almost never spawn close to each other. Often enough they are on the other sides of a given map.
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@xmidnitejokerx said:
It is a little bothersome that some of the stronger perks they add even for killer, actually benefit the stronger killers the most. Look at the effect perks like BBQ has for nurse and Billy compared to the M1 killers, or infectious fright and Haunted grounds for nurse. It’s like the strongest perks make the strong killers even stronger, and put even more of a gap between them and the standard M1 killers.
Killer perks are almost nothing compared to Survivor perks in my opinion in spreading the power gap. Nurse and Billy can counter most Survivor perks well enough but almost NO other Killer can. And it is often the exact same Survivor perks as well that counter almost ALL other Killers. Sprint Burst alone is a counter to every single Killer in the game, no exceptions and can be used in multiple ways. Self Care counters anyone that doesn't have a one shot or good map pressure. Dead Hard is just a weaker SB. I could list most Survivor meta perks and all of them counter EVERY Killer, but Nurse and to a point Billy. MoM is just the new kid in that long list.
When Survivors don't have to use but 1 build that counters every Killer in the game, then Killer players are forced to use the only Killers that can stand against that build.
Survivor builds, in my opinion, shouldn't be so general use. They offer too much value per perk without having to give up near anything. Survivor perks should be more like Killer perks. Having both strengths and weaknesses that need to be used smart or are wasted. And not just be put on a timer. Im talking Hex or Killer obsession perks levels that can be great but take time to build up while also have real weaknesses to not using them proper.
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@MegsAreEvil said:
GitGud as those killers who can still perform well.
Id figure you'd want to play against some Killers other than Nurse or Billy. Guess not.
The only thing MoM does is reinforce the Killer meta of never playing the VAST majority of Killers like Trapper, Wraith, Doctor, and several others. There are currently 12 Killers in game, soon enough to be 13. But only 2-3 of them are worth playing the moment you get out of low ranks. If you aren't playing Nurse you will be looped for days. If you aren't playing Billy you will have little to no map pressure. If you aren't playing those 2 Killers then you might as well just not bother playing Killer expecting to do anything more but farm BP and/or be a toy for Survivors that simply gets worse and worse as you go up in rank.
"But ranking is worthless" I hear you say! That's just bullshit and you know it. If the game had more viable Killers then high ranks wouldn't be in the crap it's in. More Killer players in high ranks to make lobbies, more Survivors who keep playing high ranks from not getting the same freaking Killers non stop, and both sides would have more fun from not being stuck playing as/against the exact same thing and nothing else.
But no. You just want people to "GitGud".
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That's if you are using nothing but a timer. DbD uses a charge/ticket count system for progress and times things based off of how fast those charges are used, not basic timers. The 50% reduced progress of EGC when hooked/downed effects the rate it loses charges, in effect doubling the total amount of time it takes to drain.
120 charges - 1 per second = 120 seconds or 2 minutes.
120 charges - .5 per second = 240 seconds or 4 minutes.