Chewy102
Chewy102
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/775891#Comment_775891
it would do more harm than good to DBD if the current version of the dedicated servers went live
They ARE live though.
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@Venoxxie said:
It's been fine for me as survivor, been starting to get much green pings across the board. I just blame hitboxes at this point for undeserving hits... Only time I get bad ping is in SWF and that's my fault for wanting to play with friends. I've not encountered many bugs except for the "Error" bug that takes me out of a SWF lobby but that bug isn't killing me.
Honestly, I'd rather have green ping for the event.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771263#Comment_771263
That may just solely be a bug with Myers. Unless you can prove its Dedicated Servers causing it.
A Killer using his powers is BOTH client side and server side. The client needs to tell the server that he is is using the power and the server needs to confirm that. Sounds simple but there is a catch.
There is multiple checks between Killer and server and the server needs to send confirmation back to the Killer WHILE the Killer is STILL holding the action.
The server can, and often does, revert progress with the Killer power if the Killer doesn't overcharge it. This isnt just a problem with Killer powers either. Most Killer interactions work like this and have done so even when the game was p2p. The game has needless doublechecks for so many things and you can clearly see them in every game.
Back when Killer was host, this was instant. But as there is a Server any and all actions the Killer now takes needs him to spend longer to do them. Using your power is slower, your muscle memory for it is #########, and it just plays badly. If 8 wasn't on my phone I'd proper explain it, but I gotta get back to work.
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@HamdaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/773003#Comment_773003
if u genuinly think unsafe pallets are skill with killers like spirit doc or clown youre delusional. its not skillfull especially with bloodlust when they can ignore the pallet too. youre wrong.
Then you would see more than nothing but Spirit, Nurse, and Billy in higher ranks.
The more viable Killers we have in game the better it will be for everyone.
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You also have to use the heal early. Can't save it till after you used up 99% of the medkit then pop an instant heal for late game. This often gives the Killer a chance to see it used and thus an ability to react to the endurance shield unlike before. Franklen's to force an item drop, waiting it out, or just burning through it. Mid chase heals/shields are still strong, but still have counters.
The real problem that the change effects is picking someone off of the ground. The Killer can't do anything against that. A Killer can't even interact/pick up someone being healed on the ground still. To have someone else just come in and heal them instantly after you already spent time chasing/downing to prevent a hook is just not fun nor fair.
Instant heals are now intended as a mid chase shield or a quick heal of time while you do something else on top of it. No more after the fact get out of jail free crap.
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Heard that this might be linked to uncapping your FPS. If you did uncap your FPS or set it to run higher than the default 60, then undo that and see if it still happens or not.
As to why. The PTB turned dedicated servers back on, and it seems like you are attempting to send a request to pick up the survivor every frame. The game simply ignores the requests as spam and you just stand that spazzing out doing nothing.
Just another reason why DbD shouldn't have dedicated servers to add to the pile.
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@Hex_Stalk said:
You can spend 1000 auric cells on the pass, and if you complete it you get a total of 1000 auric cells by getting to the last level of the pass. If you managed to complete the pass then you basically got all the cool stuff FOR FREE!
Not free, time has worth and it takes roughly 80 hours to complete a Rift by playing both sides and completing all challenges according to the devs.
80 hours over 70 days looks about right. But it all depends on the challenges and how hard they can get. Level 1 stuff are bare bones basics such as working X gens, hooking Y people, just normal gameplay with only 4 challenges that have requirements. Level 2 and up are likely going to have more and more of those requirement based challenges, and some might also be locked behind paywalls.
This week it is just playing as Trapper or Claudette and using Brutal Strength or Plunderers Instinct. Next week (if it goes week by week and not every 2-3 weeks per level) though could require the use of Cannibal, Ash, Shape, Steve, any paid DLC Killer/Survivor and or their perks. Might just be limited to original Killers you can get through shards, but Im willing to bet that you will need the paid DLC to complete challenges sooner or later who adds even more to the costs.
There is a fine line the devs are walking. This could easily turn badly for them in having a paid game offering a paid reward system that also requires paid DLC. Triple dipping the wallets of your average customer, on top of the cash shop making it into a possible quadruple dip that is near infinite in costs if the customer thinks it has worth or not.
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@Mr_Goodman said:
I'm in red ranks, and I never understand this mindset of it only being filled with Nurse/spirit mains. Have people forgotten that Billy and Freddy are also viable? Rank 2 Freddy and I can hold my own against swf groups.
Viable means the Killer is able to do well on the skill of his player and/or is able to force mistakes out of a Survivor. Not simply depending on and/or profiting from Survivors making a mistake in the first place.
Nurse was viable due to personal skill. Spirit is viable due to forced mistakes.
There are other good Killers, but those 2 was the only ones that don't depend on the mistakes of others and can win off their own abilities. And the higher you go into ranks added with the more skill that is gained by both sides, fewer and fewer mistakes are made. Making those merely "good" Killers not all that viable due to not having as many Survivor mistakes they depend on to keep up to par.
Im not even talking about SWF or the occasional strong team. The higher you go into ranks, the more experienced players will be. Meaning that everyone in higher ranks earned some form of skill and that means you will be facing more skilled players the higher in rank you go. Putting more and more Killers as non viable along the way till there's almost nothing left.
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@CrowFoxy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747320#Comment_747320
Hag is literally top 4-5. She's very deadly.
When the game launched Wraith was seen as OP and Billy the weakest. It took some time for those ideas to fade away as well as it took a good while for Survivors to learn how to play the game other than to run around the nearest infinite.
Public opinions tend to be crap, or flat out wrong. But if folks hear them enough they truly believe in it.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746425#Comment_746425
Sure shows people's true colors when they're asked to do exactly what they demand everyone else to do
Care to explain why Survivor meta hasn't really changed but since the game launched?
Everyone hates to change, but my point of view sees Killers have adapted far more than Survivors over the years. In both builds and playstyles.
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@Jimsalabim said:
is the ptb on dedicated servers?
That's what I want to know. It kinda has to be the case considering Killer is host otherwise.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
Yep, and destroying MoM will end the survivor ranks. Serious over reaction. Nurse changes are mostly reasonable. Nurse was easy mode before and a crutch for killers with no imagination. I always here how she is the only way to compete with the 4 man SWF, yet I've done it with Trapper at red ranks. Win some, lose some. I've seen very good Huntresses and Freddy's own those groups. Granted, Pig and Doc likely won't fair well.
Enough crying already. Wait and see first.
You can replace a perk. There are dozens of perks to pick from and the effect of just 1 being nerfed isn't going to do anything to Survivor base gameplay.
Nerfing an entire Killer though is another thing.
There are just 17 Killers in total and only 2-3 of them are high rank viable. Nerfing Nurse effects the entire Killer roster and makes it so even less are viable or worth playing as you face more skilled players.
MoM was replaceable, Nurse isn't. Not till there are more viable Killers at least.
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@Mew said:
Balance doesnt equal fun, and thats what most people have a problem with- they aren’t fun to go against.
I don't exactly call other Killers needing to lose multiple gens to land a single hook all that fun either.
If you play Clown, Wraith, Freddy, Trapper, Pig, Shape, Legion, Plague, Doctor, hell it doesn't mater what Killer is listed here. The majority of Killers in DbD simply aren't fun to play as the higher you go in ranks. The more skill that gets added into the game, for both Killer/Survivor, the less these Killers can do overall. It simply takes too long for most of them to go though loop after loop. That then leads to those Killers being taunted or BMed more often than not.
Why should it be fun for one side and not the other? The majority of Killers already can't deal with high rank gameplay. Nerfing the only Killer/s able to do so is only going to do more harm than good. This updated Nurse is going to make high rank for Killer players that much worse when there is even less viable choices to pick from. That in turn will make Survivor gameplay worse as well when they see even LESS different Killers than what few they see already.
Does Nurse need her adjustments? Yes, Nurse is way too far ahead of the other Killers.
But other things need to come first. Other Killers need to be high rank viable before Nurse gets brought down. If you do things out of order, it tends to cause more problems than it fixes. It's the same as building something. If your foundation is crap, nothing will stand on it.
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@MiniPixels said:
My bets are on reworking insta heal addons, and making healing more skill checky and less hold down m1y.
My guess is they'll make it a heal over time. Say 5-10 seconds after use you get the heal instead of instant. While also maybe not consuming the entire medkit as well.
Keeps the majority of its power but removes most of its ability for abuse in the face of a Killer. Most often an instant heal is used right in front of the Killer. Heal after a pallet drop, pick someone up right after they got downed, heal right after getting hit, I almost never see instant heals used for anything but directly in front of the Killer's face while he can't do anything about it.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/737146#Comment_737146
There's supposed to be a dedicated server in London.
I live in Central London and my ping is 120-140 ms each game. It's absolutely terrible
That, shouldn't be possible. Either you (and maybe me) got paired to the wrong server, or the servers just suck.
Getting 100+ pings for either of us for having the servers so close shouldn't really happen. I just did a fast ping test and me (in WV) pinging California only just broke 100ms over 2 different servers and 2 different programs. Connecting to Virginia should show pings MUCH smaller than the 140ms. You should be seeing extremely smaller pings than me being just about next door to the freaking server.
I don't know why. Just that something isn't working. And Iv been saying it wasn't going to work since the first PTB, who shown the more or less the SAME THING how ever long ago that ######### thing was.
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To give my personal example what how servers are compared to P2P after finally giving myself some time to play.
I attempt to be a good P2P host and often am. Survivors in my lobbies always had pings of 80-100ms with the oddball going up to 150 or so. If someone had 200+, Id dodge the lobby as that would make for poor gameplay. DbD doesn't work well when a ping gets over 200 so Id rather just not. But in 5 out of 6 games, my lobbies would have nothing but good pings so I thought I was a good host.
On dedicated servers, my ping is 140ms. Don't know what pings the Survivors are getting, but if Im getting 140ms where I live then ANYTHING they are getting is going to make our combined pings well over 200ms! By the time someone sees me coming, Im already landing the hit. That isn't fair and it is clear to see in gameplay with Survivors not reacting to anything or simply walking into me from weak sauce mind games.
I live in the middle of West Virginia, and according to the only server list I could find the nearest server to me is in upper Virginia. Not even a state away and Im getting a ping of 140ms. Going from 80ms games that most would call good/great connections to playing something I called unplayable. Crap to say the least and I feel bad for playing with such poor connections after going through the time/effort/money to make certain for that NOT to happen!
Dedicated servers are not worth the effort. Not unless you put a server in every state to keep to the same low ping standards we are used to from P2P. And that's just for the US! You have to have a LOT more than that for the rest of the world.
Is DbD playable. Yes.
Is it up to the standards are already had? Hell no.
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Location for the most part. Before you was connected to people near you, now you must go through a server. And if there isn't a server near you, then it ups the distance/ping/lag.
@not_Queen said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/002/U7DBMY23W4L8.png
A little under a year ago, we announced that we would be bringing dedicated servers to Dead by Daylight in Summer 2019. Since then, our team has been hard at work converting the game from the existing peer to peer system. There has been a lot of discussion surrounding dedicated servers recently, so we would like to address questions or concerns you may have in this post.
Release Timeframe
We have recently tested dedicated servers during the 3.2.0 PTB. After a few rounds of changes, we already could see drastic improvements on average ping which translated into better general feedback. From the survey results and community feedback, we identified two main issues that were putting the release at risk:
Projectile interaction (The Huntress, The Plague, The Clown)
- Delay on throw
- Hit registration
Interaction bugs
- Some instances of missed attacks
- Multiple hits on one action (i.e.: The Huntress hatchets hitting multiple survivors)
- Trapper placing 2 traps instead of 1
- Infinite blinds
- Delays on interaction with objects
After reviewing the feedback collected and making several changes, we have decided that it is best to push back the planned release. Our new goal is to release dedicated servers on all platforms during Fall 2019. We know this delay is disappointing, but we feel it’s best to take the additional time to polish the experience and iron out a few issues.
Next steps
- Projectile interaction improvement
- Interactions: bug fixing
- Steam live tests
We will communicate about our mid-term plan as we get closer to the Steam live test in October. With the fixes of our two main issues, we will be ready to test on the live environment right away. Testing on the live environment will allow us to gather more feedback and data. To streamline the process, the tests will be exclusively on PC. These testing phases will be communicated thoroughly and can be reverted if needed.
Server Locations
We have settled on the following locations for servers when we initially launch dedicated servers:
- Asia: Singapore
- Asia: Tokyo
- Australia: Sydney
- Europe: Frankfurt
- Europe: London
- South America: Sao Paulo
- North America: North Virginia
- North America: Oregon
- Periodically enabling additional regions to test the impact on match quality
We believe that these locations should provide optimal coverage for most regions. If none of these locations are near you, you will still be able to play the game and have the same experience as before.
What to Expect on Release
Although expectations are high, we do need to reiterate that this is the first step of many. Dedicated servers open many new possibilities that were previously impossible through our old system. Though there will be some immediate benefits, other new features will take time to implement.
This initial release of dedicated servers focuses on infrastructure; we want to make sure that the foundation is solid before we can expand with new features. By connecting to the nearest data center, your connection will be more consistent from one match to another, and generally more stable than connecting directly to other players. Since all players are connected to a server rather than each other, we will be able to better identify disconnections, allowing us to be stricter on users who disconnect excessively. As a Survivor, your movement and interactions will be based on the server rather than the Killer, reducing some instances of jittering and delay when the Killer has a weak connection. For example, camera jittering while using Dead Hard, or a delay while trying to unhook another Survivor.
The Future for Dedicated Servers
With the groundwork set, we will be able to take full advantage of dedicated servers with new features and changes behind the scenes. One such feature we would like to implement following the release of dedicated servers is the previously mentioned disconnection handling system. We would also like to expand on hit authority (i.e. who gets the final say when a player has a poor connection), which would allow us to make finer adjustments to ensure that hits feel as fair as possible. We cannot provide an ETA at this time for when these changes will go live, but as always, we will be sure to keep you posted once we have more info to share.
Although migrating to dedicated servers is a large task, we are confident that the benefits they will provide will improve the game in both the short and long term. We will keep you updated on our progress as soon as we have new information to share, and we look forward to getting servers into your hands as soon as possible.
That is the only list I found of where dedicated servers are located. Using the US as an example. Say you live in Ohio, in P2P you would be connected with other people from Ohio or who ever was closet to you. But with being forced to use a dedicated server the nearest server is in Virginia, 2 states away, and so is everyone else.
It makes for worse pings in general as you must connect over longer distances. And as Killer and Survivor now need their own ping and both must be used for interactions between 2 people, the lag adds up rather fast. Very fast.
Before in P2P you could play with your neighbor easy with little to no lag at al. But now with a server you will have a fair amount of lag connecting with the exact same people.
If you happen to be close to a server, the game should be fine. But if aren't close to a server. You're gameplay is going to suffer.
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@BalanceTeam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/736229#Comment_736229
Just did some testing.
A generator took 73 seconds while landing 4 great skill checks. Don't know where you're getting the mentality that great skill checks should be removed. If you do simple math you will realize that the impact of great skill checks on generators isn't even close to the equivalent of perks. Running thanatophobia at tier 3 you get 16% decreased gen repair speed which already adds 12.8 seconds to the already 80 second generator time, equating to 92.8 seconds to complete a generator when all the survivors are injured. Even with 2 people injured (8%) equates to 6.4 added seconds onto the generator which is just about enough added time to almost "counter' 4 great skill checks. Now imagine what adding other perks like dying light and even addons like Freddy's swing chains would do to the gen speed.
It continues to go up. At 2 hooks with dying light that's 6% reduced speed (4.8 seconds added) and it continues to go up. Tool boxes are almost required to bring in, at high ranks, if you want to combat against the meta builds that people have been using. All of this takes even longer with the killer being present, (regressing the generator by kicking it), and also taking advantage of Pop Goes the Weasel. This perk is tremendous when it comes to regressing generators by a set 25% for all tiers, which is 20 seconds.
Now let us talk more about the survivor side.
Without going too far into the numbers if you bring a brown tool box in, the generator will be finished in 72.72 seconds. (around a 10% increase in speed going at 1.1 charges/per second((brown toolbox defaults at 80 charges)). This is quickly countered by thanatophobia if you have 2-3 people injured for about 8-12% that's already making the generator take it's default time, minus a little less or adding a little more. This is even easier to achieve with dying light. This still doesn't even cover killer pressure, getting survivors off the gens, how long the gen is regressing for, what survivors are currently doing around the map, i.e healing, saving a hooked survivor, etc etc. All of this adds even more time into how long the generator takes to complete.
Thana does nothing till after you wound multiple people and if they stay wounded. Dying Light does nothing till after you hook multiple people. Pop Goes the Weasel does nothing till after you hook someone.
All of those take an investment amount of time. To land the first hook of a game often costs the Killer 3 gens, the first chase takes that long. And in the first chase, odds are you only have 1 person wounded as the other 3 can be anywhere else on the map. And it is only AFTER that first hook who cost 1-3 gens to earn does any other those perks take effect.
Great skill checks work from the start of the game. They in fact never stop working and don't need Survivors to run perks nor require an item. They are just there and each one does the same amount of damage of a Killer perk AFTER he fully builds it up.
Compare great checks to Thana. 1.6 seconds per great check, but it takes the entire Survivor team to be wounded for Thana to add 12.8 seconds. Thana at full effect, something that takes time and effort to earn, is equal to just 8 great checks. Great checks 100% counter Thana, IF the Killer is running Thana and BEFORE Than goes into full effect.
Compare great checks to Dying Light. It's the same, but worse, than Thana. By the time Dying Light takes effect great checks already hard countered it before DL took effect.
Pop is the only real counter for great checks Killer has. But that only gives 20 seconds of time. And even that is equal to only 13 great checks. Pop is also only in effect after a hook, after you already lost gens and it only works one 1 single gen. Great checks work from the start of the game and for all gens at all times.
Great skill checks are more powerful than entire perks. Great checks are more powerful than MULTIPLE perks combined! You proved my point as well. 73 seconds to finish a gen, 7 seconds faster meaning you hit only 4 great checks on that one gen. You then get to do it again on the next gen, and the next. Id even say that hitting only 4 great checks is kinda low for higher ranks and this is also without accounting for Survivor perks nor items on top of everything.
Those 7 seconds saved from great checks doesn't look like much. But it is from 1 Survivor and on 1 gen. Over up to 4 Survivors and up to 5 gens make for those 7 seconds (if not more, or less) adding up to a problem no Killer can deal with.
That's my deal with great checks and why I think they need to go. They are stronger than any item or perk in the game for free. Often stronger than combinations of items/perks as well.
If not remove them. Make great checks only show when using a toolbox. Making it so you have to use a limited resource to have such power.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/736204#Comment_736204
like 80 seconds for 3 gens to pop with no toolboxes, perks or GREAT skill checks...
Great skill checks are the biggest problem in my opinion. Every great check someone gets, takes off 1.6 seconds from a gen. Every one. If you can land as much as 5 of them, that's 8 seconds saved. Or 1/10 the ENTIRE time it takes to work a gen and 5 great skill checks isn't all that hard to do nor do you get that few per gen.
Gens do not take 80 seconds to finish. They are closer to 65-70 seconds by default if you account for great skill checks, and that is even before toolboxes.
This is why Ruin is so powerful. It is in part the normal skill checks stopping progress for 3 seconds, but by far Ruin removing great skill checks is where the power of Ruin stands. Ruin actually makes gens take its intended 80 seconds to finish. If Ruin lasts just 30 seconds into a game it already saved a LOT of time due to no great skill checks.
Great skill checks shouldn't be a thing anymore. In my opinion, they need to be removed. Or at least be removed once you get past certain ranks as proof you no longer need them.
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A- Servers add even more latency compared to P2P. Going through 2 sets of pings for interactions between players is double the time it takes compared to just the 1 ping of P2P. Thus doubling the total lag/delay.
B- They can gather all the data they want with P2P. Just have the user's client gather data as a text file for the last game played and send it to the devs with the next matchmaking request. Then mark that data as sent in order to not send multiple copies and dump any older data.
Servers aren't going to fix a problem they themselves create. You can't ignore the laws of physics. If you double the length of a rope, it will make it twice as long. Same as going through 2 sets of connections taking twice as long as only 1 connection.
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@Freudentrauma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/734546#Comment_734546
Yes and no. Server adds slightly more delay for the survivor/killer interaction, but they also help to make connections more consistent as well. And much more important helps tracking/preventing certain cheats and dcs. And the last one is quite a problem with DbD right now.
Also DbD isn't just like a fighting game. When I played against a killer, who even though I had green lobby ping, suddenly turns out into a laggings mess it would influence my movements between hooks, other survivors to heal, gens etc. Stuff I can now do much more smoother than with laggy killers. And besides that delay between survivor and killer is a little bit more complex, because the server actually works as the middleman, who decides what happens when both are reporting contradictory stuff. Trying to smooth things more out.
Servers aren't great yet. But I think they are the right direction for the game to go.
If DbD was built from the start around servers, Id agree with you that they would work. But DbD wasn't built for servers in mind.
Servers are being forced in after the fact and in doing that it is causing problem after problem. Problems that can't be fixed as the game was never made to support Killer not being host. The Killer was host because the Killer HAD to be host as the Killer in how he plays, how others react to him, and how he reacts to them is all DbD is!
By adding a server, you are killing the ability for Survivor/Killer to react to each other. It is making DbD into a prediction based game instead of a reaction base game.
Without being able to react to the Killer/Survivor, it just isn't DbD.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
My games were super laggy yesterday, killer and survivor sided. Got a good ping tho.
You had a good ping, but what about the Killer?
Say if you and the Killer has a "good" ping of 80ms. Thanks to there now being 2 sets of ping, BOTH are used for interactions between Killer/Survivor. Making the combined ping at least 160ms, but in truth higher as the server needs time to process the data it gets before sending it through.
So your "good ping" of 80ms could be closer to 200ms easy.
Example.
Killer goes to attack. He rounds a corner and starts the attack, it takes his ping to send that data to the server and then your ping for you to see him at all. But by the time you even see the Killer, before seeing him going for the attack as well, he already landed the hit on his screen.
See a Huntress ready a hatchet? By the time you see that, she already thrown it. See a Shape/Ghost/Pig at the last moment? You are already grabbed off the gen and on their shoulder. See a Billy mid sprint 2 map tiles away heading towards you? You're already on the ground.
That's what a server does. It adds an additional chain data has to go through for interactions between 2 players. In P2P, it is just a single ping. On a server any/all data has to go through 2 pings. Double the pings, double the time for data flow, double the lag.
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The Kill Your Friends mode should have been made unranked when the game launched.
Instead of adding SWF and breaking balance for years to date, instead of reworking matchmaking countless times over due to SWF/solo/rank/emblems, instead of re-balancing the game over and over again for one type of gameplay then another type, instead of doing any of that. KYF should have just been made unranked where you can play with friends against random people.
A place where you can playtest builds, where you can learn how to play different Killers without worry, a place that is about just having fun.
That would also leave ranked as it was meant to be played. A mode that could be balanced around that. No solo/SWF messing the data, less non viable Killers, an overall better gameplay.
But no. The playerbase wanted SWF and the devs gave us SWF instead of an unranked mode. Now they're locked into the current mess, and dedicated servers only look to make things worse still.
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@Ashruu said:
Sounds like you have a bad connection. This is probably the same way every survivor has felt playing in your games, but now, dedicated server punish you instead of them. If you're on wifi, swap to ethernet, should help a lot. Haven't experienced any issues myself at a rock solid 80 ping.
It punishes everyone.
Survivor with a ping of 100 to the server and the Killer with a ping of 100 to the server makes for a 200ms delay for any interaction between them. Unplayable by most standards, and that will be STANDARD with servers! That's how how servers work, they aren't magical things that remove any/all lag for free. They in fact add MORE lag in small player count games like DbD as you have to go through 2 sets of pings for interactions instead of just 1 like in P2P.
Think of DbD as a fighting game. DbD looks like a 4v1 at first but it plays like 4 1v1s combined into the same game with each 1v1 having both the Survivor/Killer reacting to each other. The more delay between those interactions the worse gameplay will be.
Dedicated servers just aren't worth the effort. The Switch version is forced to use them due to how that system works, but every other version will see servers do FAR more harm than good.
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Turns out, if you add another objective to DbD it kinda ruins it for Survivor. If even just 1 person is focused on the event objects that has good odds of the entire game lost for Survivors. It's like having a 3v1, or worse if more than 1 person is doing the event.
Still can win, but not gonna happen. Meanwhile Killer is just going to town on everyone and having a blast.
That's why I think it was changed to just gens/hooks and why there hasn't been another event objective since. It is also likely why DbD hasn't had a 2nd Survivor objective added in yet even with countless requests or it. Adding another objective that isn't directly a means of escape means Survivors aren't going to escape due to wasting too much time. The Hallowed Blight is enough proof of that in my opinion.
Now, if Killers had another objective as well as Survivor... That could be fair. Something like (using last years event as an example) instead of hooking someone you would bring them to the flowers and toss them on to water it with their blood. Doesn't take a hook state away, doesn't really reduce the bleed out timer, it would really just be the same thing as a flashlight save. Killer stuns himself but by watering the flowers with Survivor blood the Killer would earn event progress and likely crap loads of blood points.
Both sides need to waste time and not work towards, or even forgo, their main objective in order to play the event. So neither side could be ######### over by the event favoring one or the other.
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@Mochan said:
Only if Survivors can see who the killer is and his rank as well.
Do you mean who the player is, or what Killer is being played?
If the first, that's a fair trade. If the second, ######### that crap. It would be far to easy for Survivors to abuse be it dodging the better Killers or adjusting their builds to counter other Killers.
SWF gives too much information as it is. No need to give even more.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/88922/does-the-demogorgon-movement-feel-off
It’s just his height. You’ll get the same sensation playing as Plague.
Might have to test that. It's been a while since I played Plague, but I don't recall having these feelings when playing as her. Her height effected depth perception and made landing hits a little wonky much like playing Hag for playing a small Killer. But I can't recall the movement itself feeling off for any other Killer.
It's slight, but my WASD muscle memory from playing other Killers doesn't match with Demogorgon. Height shouldn't have that much of an effect that as once you learn muscle memory for WASD you'll just know by heart without a need to look. Speed, acceleration, and deceleration is what tosses muscle memory. And the Demogorgon's movement feels clunky.
Like going from a lightweight character to a heavyweight character. Both can have the same top speeds, but they don't react to changes in those speeds the same.
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@DaRealxFactor said:
You need to get "Merciless Killer"/(Double Pip) to get it. Not necessarily a 4k...just make sure you double pip. 👌🏾
Survivor adept only needs you to escape the match. Gate or hatch, sooner or later you will get it without much worry.
Killer adept needs you to play a perfect game. Even at rank 20 you need to earn nearly pure iridescent emblems or else it's failure.
Not exactly fair if you ask me. And with the DC meta, Killer adept is even harder to earn from blocking emblem progress, while making it easier for Survivor adept by giving the hatch.
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@Dr_Loomis said:
The generator in the lodge can be risky due to it being central, the lodge having various entrances and the progress of the gen can be heard as the killer patrols the exterior. It's perhaps the trickest gen.
All those paths to enter the building makes it so the Killer can come from anywhere, but it also make it so the Survivor can leave anywhere. As long as you don't ignore the terror radius you should never be caught out on the gen as you always have an escape route. Letting you have a choice of to loop the building itself, or run to another loop right outside in any direction.
It's comparable to Rotten Fields to how open and how many paths that building has. Once someone starts running, it's impossible to predict where they will go outside of blind luck.
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@lynelmane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/694080#Comment_694080
I think the low graphics are supposed to be for people whose computers cant run on ultra or even medium. Like mine. I'm a student and cant save money for a pc, and im sure a lot of others out there are in similar situations. It's not as easy as "save cash for a new one".
That is what lower settings are suppose to be used for. People who can't afford a higher end PC. Lower settings allows game devs to sell their games to more people. More money for the devs/publisher, more players for a community, and maybe a longer life or more content for the game itself.
But lower graphic settings are also used by players with higher end PCs in order to gain an advantage. Giving more FPS isn't what Im talking about either. Look at the OPs post for examples.
Longer view distance, red stain/scratch marks easier to see, less shadows, less grasses/bushes, and what not ALL give an advantage. One that people abuse to hell in most every game possible. In Ultra, a Killer could maybe miss someone in a bush or have the fog/darkness hide them. In low, the Killer could almost never miss someone trying to hide. Survivors stick out like a sore thumb in lower settings giving Killers who run on low settings (but have a good PC anyway) a slightly unfair advantage.
Survivors also can gain an advantage. The red stain being easier to see is one hell of a thing for looping the Killer. And with lower settings they can see the Killer in the distance better as well. Even stealth or hard to see Killers can't really hide that well in low settings.
Hell. Lower settings in DbD is a small fry compared to other games that had settings abuse. Planetside 2, before it got patched you could adjust the settings to remove ALL SMOKE! Smoke grenades, rocket trails, anything that was put in place to block your view was removed. People would spam smoke grenades all over the build and clean it out when everyone but them was blinded by smoke. But as it was an ini setting, it was a legal exploit that nearly ruined the game. Can't ban someone for changing their options settings.
Low settings are needed. Not saying they aren't. But I am saying that low settings are just as abused as everything else and Im a little bitter about exploit abuse. Legal or not.
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Low graphics are suppose to be horrible quality. That's the point of having graphic options, lower/raise the quality in order to run the game on weaker/stronger hardware.
It isn't the devs fault if people want to abuse that system in order to gain an advantage.
If you don't have a good PC, deal with it or save cash for an upgrade.
If you do have a good PC, deal with it or up your settings and stop trying to get an advantage on everyone else for free.
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Applying Oblivious to actions is one thing that could be overpowered, adding a 20% speed debuff is ######### insane for a Killer perk. But a Survivor perk giving you Oblivious for a slight buff, that's a decent idea.
Oblivious isn't something to take lightly. If you make it a perk, then what would happen if a Nurse uses it? Nurse already is a damned good Killer, with Survivors Oblivious she becomes a god. A Killer perk that gives Oblivious would need to be very limited in some way.
Say, "When ever a Survivor preforms a loud action that pings the Killer (fast vault, failed skill check, finishing a gen) then that Survivor gets Oblivious for X seconds". That could work. You could also fluff it lore wise to the Survivors making themselves deaf from the loud noises needing a moment to recover.
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@AshleyWB said:
Imagine Chucky being 60% movement speed but sprinting at you, because he's so small.
I could see Chucky as 105%, 110% at most.
Loop him for weeks if you want, but something that small and maybe having no red stain by default could make him lethal in mind games. But then you have another problem. They would likely need to use the remake Chucky, a confused robot. Not the original, the possessed doll.
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@justarandy said:
Calm down. It's the first dedicated servers performance test (previously was just a stress test) and a lot of stuff is already working very well. If the devs keep working on that and maybe get some more experienced and professional people outside its going to be perfect.
This is at least the 2nd PTB for dedicated servers. Maybe the 3rd if Im forgetting something.
This PTB is better than before, but it's still by far in no condition for launch when Killers can't even use their powers as/when needed without something breaking.
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@Cheers said:
Personally, the perk needs a rework of some kind. I don't think a perk should be able to negate the power of the killer without a draw back of some kind.
It kinda already does have a drawback. You can't earn a pebble without being within the terror radius without also not being in a chase and you have only 1 pebble at a time.
Hag has a smaller than default TR at 24m. So it will be harder than normal to earn a pebble without running the risk of being found. And once found, it's the Hag. You're likely to take a hit or fall into a trap boosting your odds of going down. Then once a Hag has you, she has the tool set to keep you. Call it camping if you want, but a Hag is queen at securing kills and making good ambushes.
Plus the Hag has a built in counter to a pebble setting of her traps. The phantasm always looks at the Survivor who sets off the trap. If that phantom isn't moving, then odds are the Hag would know 1 of 2 things. 1 a pebble tipped the trap, 2 the Survivor isn't a threat by being too immersed to do anything but hide.
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@ad19970 said:
I mean, they'll reduce the grind with the upcoming patch. Do you know that?
BP gains will stay the same. But higher level blood webs will give up to 4 perks instead of 2, and you'll have odds of buying 2 perks per blood web instead of 1.
Early on, level 1-30, nothing really changes. But for 30+, maybe 40+, the grind for perks you want should be reduced by roughly 40-60%. Still gotta play the game though to earn the BP though, you'll just earn perks faster.
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@TheALIEN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/85522/the-demogorgon-is-slightly-ruined-for-me
My nostalgia is kicking in- now it makes the Demo adorable!!
Fun fact. There are 6 Tremor movies now! 5 isn't that bad, but 6 kinda went downhill a bit into bad B movie range instead of good B movie.
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/668542#Comment_668542
They work on R6S but people get like 12 ping... least I do - I have no clue why it’s so low and I don’t know if this is BVHR’s eventual goal. (Or atleast 50 ping is probably good enough) - on ptb I was offered 110 ping each lobby search or more :P but pretty sure on previous dedicated server tests it has been green/50 ping before.
Saying that deathgarden felt alright with no problems when I played it.
RS6 is a shooter. Reacting to someone isn't really a thing when you die in an instant. Shooters are proactive games, where you predict the other players. You can afford to have those delays in a shooter as you aren't reacting to someone else. No need for an instant response and no need for very fast pings when you need to predict everything before they happen.
Plus in shooters you have lag as well. Getting shot after going behind cover is one massive complaint. But that isn't all that bad as it is a shooter. You couldn't dodge bullets anyway and you could have been shot from some odd angles, some games you can even shoot through cover. So you likely never notice any delays or lag until it gets REALLY bad!
The only real personal example I can give though is Planetside 2. A FPS MMO that clearly uses servers, but as it depends on clients doing work lag can be a real problem. Your lag leads to others rubber banding and easy kills, others lagging leads to your instant death as all their shots land at once before they round a bend.
DbD though is a melee focused game built on reacting to other players ASAP. Try using a melee weapon in a RS6 (if there is one) and you'll quickly find it hell or filled with massive handicaps to overcome server delays. Making melee attacks in a shooter overpowered to overcome how bad melee is.
Melee needs extremely quick response times. You aren't just predicting someone, you are more often reacting to them. Look at Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter. Those are prime example of melee focused games and in them you do NOT want ANY delays at ALL! Seeing the start of an animation and going for a block/parry. Seeing a brief opening and punishing it. Melee gameplay is all about reacting to the other player. Any delay at all makes reacting to the other player impossible and in turn makes the gameplay crap button mashing. So they use P2P to limit any delay as much as possible by making it as close to a direct LAN as possible.
Outside of Huntress, DbD is basically a 3d fighter. Adding a server makes it a middle man, adding a delay to every interaction. And any added delays makes melee gameplay all the worse.
Servers do have their place. But that place is for BIG projects. A lot of players needing data from everyone at once such as a shooter. The game having multiple background systems such as a MMO. An RTS with possible countless NPCs to account for. Servers work when you have a lot of work to do.
DbD is frankly a 1v1 game. 1 Killer going against 4 Survivors, but it isn't 1v4. It is 4 1v1s mashed into a single game. P2P is king for small games. Less delays, less costs, and as close to LAN as you can possibly get.
@megdonalds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/668542#Comment_668542
You still want to lagswitch to have easier games, don't you? Timeout punishments for DCs won't happen without dedicated servers either. P2P will always be the worst choice because it's too abusable.
Bulls*** and you know it.
Killer attacks are client side. It being on a server wont do jack against a lag switch when the Killer's client still controls if he deals damage or not. Wont change anything, a server will just make normal gameplay worse as you can see for yourself in the PTB forums with how many people complaining of "hitboxes" being worse. It's client side processing, adding a server wont change that in the least without making EVERYTHING server side. Adding even more delays to everything.
DCs are already tracked in P2P. The devs know when you click leave game and they can tell the difference between your ISP kicking out or you pulling the plug based on game inputs and how often the events happen. A server would make it more easy to punish someone, but it is in no way required. The game already tracks your data and it already has a ban system in place. Everything needed is in place already. The devs just wanted to wait for "reasons". Likely not wanting to waste all the effort put into making dedicated servers, not wanting to add even more work for themselves by doing manual bans, and nor do they likely not want to make even more work on top of all that improving the ban system when
Finally, personally attacking me isn't going to do jack either. I just want fair gameplay.
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@Mr_K said:
More than likely so issues with dedicated servers are not overshadowing issues/feadback with the new chapter.
I agree with this.
But the truth is that dedicated servers are simply not going to work in DbD. I could type yet another wall of text as to why, but you can see for yourself in the feedback sub forum and it boils to more or less 1 thing.
Servers double the delay between Survivor/Killer interactions. Doubling the lag and making any problems people assuming blame on "hitboxes" twice as worse.
Vault a window in P2P, the Killer gets that in just your ping's worth of time. Vault a window on a server, and the Killer gets that data after you ping that to the server and THEN the server pings it to the Killer.
Killer lands a hit in P2P, the Survivor gets that data in his ping. Killer lands a hit on a server, the Survivor gets that data after the Killer sends it to the server and THEN the server sends it to the Survivor.
Any and ALL interactions between a Survivor/Killer on P2P happen on their pings to each other. K-S and S-K, a single link between the players. And as Killer is host. This is how it works for ALL interactions between the Killer and ALL Survivors! But on a server any and all interactions must go through the server first, combining both the Survivor/Killer pings together. K-Serv-S. It now takes 2 links in the data chain adding both pings into a total sum for lag between them.
Like it or not. But dedicated servers just do not belong in Dead by Daylight. They wont work no mater how much you want them to because of the laws of physics. You can't double the length of a rope without having it take twice as long to walk it.
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@Redcum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662504#Comment_662504
I'd agree but one time I literally walked to someone, the guy turned to me and looked at me and nothing happened. Once I was behind a wall, no way the guy could see me except maybe my cloak and he knocked me out of it.
Must just not have enough games with Ghost. As said, Iv had questionable reveals or the lack of one. But if my memory isnt bad easy reveals often are me caught out in the open, the Survivor behind half or soft cover, or another person entirely with line if sight. And times where it seemed impossible to reveal me was with the Survivor going through head high walls or hard cover breaking their LOS every few seconds.
Seems like a mix of everything. Line of sight for reveals looks to be a mix of soft cover, half cover, amd hard cover on top of needing to see a total % of the Ghost as well as keeping it constant to counter the reveal buffer WITH a need for him in center screen. That's a lot of conditions and requirements for either Killer or Survivor to account for. Something is bound to break sooner or later.
Meh. As long as you have fun, play any Killer you want. Not like anyone compares to Nurse anyway. Might as well roleplay and have fun with it.
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@Redcum said:
If Ghostface wasn't so broken, it'd be him for sure. Unfortunately he can sometimes be knocked out of his stealth through walls and sometimes I can be breathing down someone's neck without being knocked out.
I cant help but think this is mostly from people not understanding their cover or line of sight well enough.
Granted iv had numerous times where I'd get revealed easy or be on someone's ass and keep stealth. But in just about all of them it boiled down to how good my cover was to their line of sight. Little to none, I got spotted. Going in/out of it, I'd keep stealth.
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Both. There isnt really a right choice when both the Shape and Ghost do what they do well.
Personally I see Ghost with more potential. Dont have the time to out it all into words and explain, but the Ghost is just more adaptable.
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Remove the pip requirements and make it a simple 4k. Either that or make Survivor adepts require a double pip instead of simply surviving a match.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/657671#Comment_657671
How is adding a chase indicator to the HUD a buff to SWF? Because it tells everyone else that they're in a chase half a second before they can just say that they're in a chase? It doesn't change the info that they are given whatsoever.
To use what SWF supporters have been saying. Not every SWF group goes tryhard and doesn't tell each other every little detail. So having the game tell them that itself turns even the most casual SWF group into a powerhouse. Not just SWF, a pure solo group would now have that information with perfect detail making even the worst Survivor teams tip the balance of power.
You don't give booze to a drunk. You don't add fuel to a fire. You simply can't fix a problem by making it worse. Bringing solo up to SWF levels only makes things worse in the end. If you do, then you need to bring Killers even HIGHER than that! But Killers already are in a decent spot. You can't really buff Killers that much or the game becomes unplayable.
It's called power creep and that doesn't fix balance problems, it instead causes more of them.
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@Okapi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/657576#Comment_657576
Just because the devs are slow to make balance changes doesn't mean they shouldn't make any at all.
That isn't what I said. They should in fact balance the game the best they can, but they need to focus on the real problems.
If SWF is out of balance because of the information it gives. You don't balance the game by giving them even more information. That's like putting gas on a fire in hopes it burns itself out. All that would do is make things worse needing even larger Killer buffs, who would then take even longer to put in place.
You need to focus on the problems first, cure the disease. Then deal with the symptoms and even things out.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/656212#Comment_656212
The entire point of the upcoming changes is to bring solo players closer to SWF without solos having to waste perk slots to get info that SWF get for free.
An entire balance point of DbD is that Survivors are suppose to give up perk slots to have that information. Survivors are suppose to make due with a lack of information from the start or gain it at some cost be that perk slots or an item. Information is one of the most powerful things you can have. That's why there are so freaking many Survivor perks that offer information.
Being able to have that information for free is the problem and is why SWF can be so strong. If you just give out that information to everyone, then that instantly makes a dozen or more perks worthless and just as bad or worse than Left Behind.
Not only that, but you know Killers wouldn't get any form of buffs to balance that for ######### months or at least a year. If at all to be frank.
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We have till Sept 23rd before Summer officially ends. So you guys have one more month before the riots.
I just hope servers are better than they was in the PTBs. Not holding my breath for it to be honest.
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Kinda a dick move, but it's just the Killer playing his only objective.
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@Peanits said:
There's also Bill. Bill came without a killer.
There's going to be 17 killers and 19 survivors once the next chapter launches. Take that how you will.
About 51 teachable perks for Killer and 57 for Survivor. Combine that with general perks and how each perk has 3 tiers, youd wind up with needing roughly 200 levels to max out a single character. 600+ for a 100% prestige 3.
To get the full set, that's 10,200 Killer bloodwebs and 11,400 Survivor bloodwebs. To 100% the entire game needs you to level at roughly 22,600 times. Who takes anywhere between 10,000 to 25,000 bloodpoints. Averaging to around 452-562 MILLION bloodpoints at 20k-25k BP per level.
I take that as a bit of a grind. Any chance we can get a second set of Legacy for anyone crazy enough to do all that?
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@PrincessPoop said:
I wonder why rancor has a different condition than most other EGC perks? Because i pretty much had the same experience where I just thought it was bugged before goin game back and carefully reading the perks description.
It's the "for each gen finished" trigger. Same as Bitter Murmur, Fire Up, and any other perk that works per gen finished.
As those perks work by having each gen being finished proper, skipping gens just doesn't trigger it. The game doesn't see those remaining gens as being finished, just locked by the Entity and thus doesn't trip the perks trigger.
NOED, Hope, or other end game perks. Real end game perks, trigger when the gates are powered and aren't linked to gens at all. So they all activate when EGC starts as that also powers the gates.
Devil in the details and game logic being, not that logical at times. Understandable that per gen perks don't trigger in EGC, but there isn't really a good reason they don't either. The game is already over when EGC starts. So there isn't any real point to not have per gens perk activate as they likely wont do much anyway.
Bitter Murmur could be overpowered though. But who runs Bitter Murmur?
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@066 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/634745#Comment_634745
Maybe because some killers still can't figure out how to counter it?
And yes, this perk is nerfed to the ground and you can't tell me that is useful when Killers can slug you for 60 seconds
Someone makes a hook save in your face, be it by not giving you a chance to walk away or leading you right back to the hook mid chase, and you down that same guy instantly. Instead of being able to punish that by rehooking the Survivor and maybe killing them. The Killer must now just walk away and leave them for a full 60 seconds. Losing any pressure that hook had, in fact that 60 seconds of slugging can even take what pressure the Killer has AWAY from him! It takes 5 minutes to bleed out, more than enough time to force the Killer to down you, force him to wait out your DS, then maybe get hooked if you can't be saved or healed in that time. Add in Borrowed Time and it only gets worse.
It quickly becomes impossible for the Killer to punish what should be a horrible play. Saving someone off a hook in his face. That's the problem with second chance perks. You can't punish someone for making bad plays all because they are running a perk.
If you leave the unhooked and go for the other guy. The Killer still can't punish a bad hook save as he just started another possibly long chase. Leaving the unhooked free to do what ever he wants. Doesn't even need to think of healing either for that 60 seconds giving even more time to work gens. It gets even worse as the Killer is now spreading hooks between players. And spreading hooks is just a BAD idea the vast majority of the time as it means you can't fully kill anyone before the game is over.
And say if they did manage to make a safe unhook. That's still 60 seconds of safety if the Killer happens to find them again. People abuse the hell out of that all the time knowing the Killer can't do a damned thing about it.
It isn't just 60 seconds either. That's 60 seconds for BOTH of their unhooks and for EACH Survivor running the perk. Hell, they don't even need to be running DS either. Just there being an obsession makes Killers think twice about punishing any bad unhooks or poor stealth. All while the other 2-3 Survivors are free to work gens to end the game in mere minutes and likely all have the same safety nets as the first guy.
The minutes it takes to properly kill a single Survivor between second chance perks, instant heals, pallet loops, and their skilled gameplay. You can play almost literally multiple games in totality. That's the problem as I said before.
The Killer can't counter nor punish Survivor mistakes all thanks to DS. Not without risking the entire game doing so.