BadMrFrosty
BadMrFrosty
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- BadMrFrosty
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@Orion said:
@Delfador said:
@Orion said:
When they were more frequent, people were complaining that the devs were answering "irrelevant questions" and "wasting time". When the devs skipped irrelevant questions, people were complaining that they were skipping "questions they don't want to answer". Now that Q&A streams/videos are few and far between and balance, etc., streams/videos are more plentiful, we get complaints like yours, that they don't do enough Q&A.
It's catch-22, plain and simple.
Yeah this community is hard to please and I feel like the Devs are becoming more and more hesitant to do things because whenever they do something, people lose their ######### and this harms the development of the game more than anything. The community needs to give up this over critical attitude.
Customers in general need to stop being so entitled. These streams are not necessary. They don't have to answer questions. They could just as easily put out a written statement once every couple of weeks, or once a month, like most game developers do. They take their time to give us these streams, to interact with us directly, and (mostly) get abuse for it.
I gave BVHR money for a product that I expect to come with minimal frustration and be functional more often than not. If there's a serious issue that in some way makes the product unsatisfactory, I have the reasonable expectation of them to fix it so that it doesn't impact my enjoyment of the product I paid for. Paid. For.
I didn't get this game nor any of its bonus content for free, so to act like paying customers are entitled because they expect fixes for very real issues (long lobby times, imbalance, etc) is asinine.
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Here's my take on it, and I truly believe this is caused by an entirely separate and far more critical issue with Dead by Daylight.
- Queue times are god awful (though this is not universal for everyone; region/time of day/patch pending).
- Survivors claim to want more killer variety and play styles to encounter.
I can only answer the second reason I've given, and it's a direct consequence of the game's awful balance. Why do you think the same killers are encountered, using the same perks/play styles at high ranks? Well, most killers are underwhelming outside of the two most popular (nurse or billy), and most players playing at rank one are almost forced into optimal play to get any level of enjoyment out of a game that is so clearly unbalanced. Those are my two cents.
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It's good that those Legion changes aren't going through, however, now I think he's just going to stagnant in his current state for a long time. Welp, good thing I didn't waste shards on him.
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No perk should give survivors a free escape in the current state of the game. Given how hard an M1 killer has to work to catch a single decent survivor, spitting in their face for finally nabbing them is the worst way to reward them.
I could understand all of these second chance perks if the game was far more lethal to survivors, but as it stands with maps the way they are, it's too much.
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@ScottJund said:
undefined@Gardenia said:
@ScottJund said:
@Severus_Swiggleton said:
@ScottJund said:
Would you like to get a group together and KYF with me being Frank's Mixtape Legion? I'd love to watch you counter me!Yup, because one setup match should determine the fate of a patch. Reasonable.
What does that have to do with the patch? I'm just trying to find out a way to counter Legion and he seems to know how.
Not just me, literally all high ranking Survivors.
But you keep acting like I'm the only one who knows these things.If you don't know by now, then maybe you should stop whining about him and try to understand him.
I'm not getting into a match with you because it's one match, and especially if it's one on one there's no chance.
BECAUSE that doesn't simulate a real match at high rank. When you have multiple high rank survivors in red rank that know what they're doing, Legion gets destroyed. They've already learned to split in groups of two's and the other stuff I've listed.
Also, just because he downs you doesn't mean it's the end of the match, you have to get hooked 2 maybe 3 times. That's not to include items you bring in such as insta heals.
Take a chill pill dude.
You are really, really missing the point. When you, individually, get chased by Legion, there is nothing you, individually, can do. Its a very bad feeling and does not belong in a multiplayer game. Saying "just split up and do gens" isn't a counter to Legion, its a counter to everything in the game.
So I'm genuinely curious, humor me for a second if you will. Should these changes to Legion go through, what do you plan to do? Sure, you could disconnect against every Legion, but that's a bannable offense if done too frequently (supposedly). I doubt you'll stop playing the game altogether, since there are no viable alternatives in the genre with as much content/variety as Dead by Daylight. Basically, until they have competition, they can do whatever they want and people will still play the game/buy their content. It's a sad reality.
At the end of the day, it's been proven that BVHR takes constructive criticism from its highest level killers/survivors with a grain of salt, and they balance the game around whatever their 'vision' for it is, regardless of the input received from highly skilled players.
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@ScottJund said:
@Gardenia said:
@ScottJund said:
@Gardenia said:
You guys have had about a month and a couple of days to adapt against him. Use SB and Lithe, stealth(real stealth, don't sit on a gen when you hear a terror radius move your behind.), And juke them like nurse because his biggest thing is sight, he can't see scratch marks when in frenzy.We have another good killer. I'm tired of having Survivors uproar over every little thing. If you ask me, they're the ones that pushed this type of gameplay. When you started looping way back when there had to be counters to it. Now we've gone to the next logical step and made a giant F-U to pallets. And because you can't loop him to death or actually have to use a bit more thinking to evade him, now it's "not fun".....
You've never played a single game against Legion in your life, have you?
Actually yes I have many times. And you know what happened? We miraculously have a higher escape rate against them....Gee I wonder why... Hmmmm...
Also as Legion high rank survivors do the things listed and manage to evade him.
Would you like to get a group together and KYF with me being Frank's Mixtape Legion? I'd love to watch you counter me!
I'm curious, so humor me if you will for a second. If this change goes through, what are you going to do? I highly doubt you'll stop playing the game, at worse, you'll disconnect against a Legion (which, if done too much, is apparently a bannable offense). BVHR can do whatever they want with the game, and will rarely, if ever, listen to their highest tier of players where balance is concerned. You already knew that though, and it's not like they have any real competition in the genre to force them into competence.
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@Dwight_Confusion said:
@BadMrFrosty said:
@Dwight_Confusion said:
We have another very strong killer. Deal with it.Being stealthy around Legion is incredibly important. The changes to him are amazing. They simply need to leave him be.
He's strong, as a killer should be. They did buff Self Care, but no one cares about that lol
People were starting to not heal at times against him. Now you need to. Maybe they could make it 1 second in between stabs? So it can't be spammed?
I think he's top tier and strong. As he should be. PLaying against him is intense and tough. ADapt.
Something something about 'fun' which is highly subjective, something something counterplay which survivors give killers a ton of.. blah blah. Sigh. We've been here before, haven't we?
We have, and you must of been on the losing end of logical debate.
Sighs...
What can be said that hasn't already been covered by both sides on the topic? These same principles are brought up and discussed at length in most Legion threads, so what are we possibly going to debate that hasn't already been done to death? Come on now.
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@TAG said:
BadMrFrosty said:@TAG said:
BadMrFrosty said:
My question is, what are the point of these changes? None of these help Pig become a viable killer nor do they fix the core problem with the character (a standard M1 killer with an RNG dependent power and a largely useless secondary - it's still useless). I feel like a couple interns just threw darts at a board with post-it notes on it with a random killer name/buffs they could receive. On top of all of this, they felt these changes were so good, that they even nerfed her TR? Really? Wow.
One thing people have been saying is that Combat Straps should be base kit; this is making it basically 70% base kit. That is, if nothing else, a step in the right direction. Same goes for making the TR disappear faster when crouching. TR being bigger is a minor nerf, but I think this was overall a net positive for the Pig.
Thing is, at the pace BVHR works, these are probably the only changes she'll get for the next couple months. Hell, I'm lowballing that, likely the whole year.
Maybe, maybe not (I hope not). All I'm concerned with at the moment are that these are mostly good changes for the Pig (TR perhaps not).
I guess when you go so long without any meaningful changes, even the smallest little nugget thrown your way is acceptable. I get it, but it still doesn't change the Pig overall. Piggy is still Piggy. : (
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@Dwight_Confusion said:
We have another very strong killer. Deal with it.Being stealthy around Legion is incredibly important. The changes to him are amazing. They simply need to leave him be.
He's strong, as a killer should be. They did buff Self Care, but no one cares about that lol
People were starting to not heal at times against him. Now you need to. Maybe they could make it 1 second in between stabs? So it can't be spammed?
I think he's top tier and strong. As he should be. PLaying against him is intense and tough. ADapt.
Something something about 'fun' which is highly subjective, something something counterplay which survivors give killers a ton of.. blah blah. Sigh. We've been here before, haven't we?
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@MojoTheFabulous said:
I imagine they'll just do something like pausing Deep Wound if you're within Terror Radius or something. I don't really know how else they could change it.You're not going to like the answer, since you probably already know how unlikely it is. Ready? Full rework.
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@TAG said:
BadMrFrosty said:My question is, what are the point of these changes? None of these help Pig become a viable killer nor do they fix the core problem with the character (a standard M1 killer with an RNG dependent power and a largely useless secondary - it's still useless). I feel like a couple interns just threw darts at a board with post-it notes on it with a random killer name/buffs they could receive. On top of all of this, they felt these changes were so good, that they even nerfed her TR? Really? Wow.
One thing people have been saying is that Combat Straps should be base kit; this is making it basically 70% base kit. That is, if nothing else, a step in the right direction. Same goes for making the TR disappear faster when crouching. TR being bigger is a minor nerf, but I think this was overall a net positive for the Pig.
Thing is, at the pace BVHR works, these are probably the only changes she'll get for the next couple months. Hell, I'm lowballing that, likely the whole year.
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My question is, what are the point of these changes? None of these help Pig become a viable killer nor do they fix the core problem with the character (a standard M1 killer with an RNG dependent power and a largely useless secondary - it's still useless). I feel like a couple interns just threw darts at a board with post-it notes on it with a random killer name/buffs they could receive. On top of all of this, they felt these changes were so good, that they even nerfed her TR? Really? Wow.
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@JetTheWaffleCat said:
@Dreamnomad said:
@Mc_Harty said:
@Dreamnomad said:
There seems to be a lot of hyperbole in this thread. This isn't a very big buff. If you are walking around injured then you deserve to go down faster. That is just common sense.It's not common sense for a killer to ignore gameplay however.
That doesn't really have anything to do with this change though. If you want to argue that the killer's ability is fundamentally broken that is one thing. But with the killer's ability as it currently stands it just makes sense that if they stab you while your are injured that you don't get the full deep wound timer. It should never be the optimal strategy for survivors to ignore being injured against any killer.
The fact that staying injured is the most viable strategy is on of the reason why Legion is so poorly designed. The fact that they're using this horrid bandaid fix instead of gut reworking them is absolute asinine.
BVHR: Releases a killer that is poorly designed and conceptually broken.
Community: Expects BVHR to put time and effort into reworking said killer.
BVHR: Changes nothing and buffs killer.
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@SadonicShadow said:
@BadMrFrosty said:
On one hand, I sympathize with the fact that survivors have no counterplay to Legion. It really reeks of awful game design. However, survivors have been so overwhelmingly powerful for so long, that I'd be lying if I said I wasn't getting some level of smug satisfaction from this whole ordeal. Guess it kinda sucks, huh? Feeling like you have very few options - that sense of pressure, stress, and the impending doom of inevitable failure?Welcome to the killer life, survivors! Now you get to enjoy about as much counterplay as most of your semi-infinites and safe loops have.
Feelsdookieman.
At one point i would be feeling a bit of glee aswell but not anymore. Legion is just straight up bad for both sides and not at all healthy for this game. Both sides are getting the short end of the stick here.
I'm aware of the issues Legion's design causes, for sure. It's just funny to see how fast people respond to something perceived as 'unhealthy' when the shoe's on the other foot. I'm sure none of this will actually go through, though. Remember the supposed DS changes? Me too.
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On one hand, I sympathize with the fact that survivors have no counterplay to Legion. It really reeks of awful game design. However, survivors have been so overwhelmingly powerful for so long, that I'd be lying if I said I wasn't getting some level of smug satisfaction from this whole ordeal. Guess it kinda sucks, huh? Feeling like you have very few options - that sense of pressure, stress, and the impending doom of inevitable failure?
Welcome to the killer life, survivors! Now you get to enjoy about as much counterplay as most of your semi-infinites and safe loops have.
Feelsdookieman.
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I'm still waiting for the patch notes with "Map balance and optimization is now a priority, and will be getting better with each patch."
That said, this is a start. A late start, but a start nonetheless.
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"Hey guys, there's only two viable killers at the highest level of play, we should nerf them so that people will gravitate toward other killers. Y'know, variety!"
DBD Killer has left the lobby.
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I'd also tag on "When the exit gates are powered, the control panels are highlighted when in use by a survivor. Additionally, they glow three different colors to denote their level of completion: red (low progress), yellow (halfway), and green (open)."
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There are so many ways they could slow down the average length of a game while making it fun for survivors. That said, I think Matheau already said there were no plans to add additional objectives to the game (on a dev stream, can't remember which one). Disappointing, I know.
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Add-ons should be a bonus, not a requirement. Every killer should be able to do well with or without modifying their power. Apparently the developers didn't get the message or don't really see the flaw with the current state of most add-on dependent killers.
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The message communicated to me with BVHR's most recent update is as follows:
- We don't know how to design fun, powerful, fair killers.
- We are detached from the state of our game and how it plays at higher skill levels (or simply don't care).
- We want you to buy more cosmetics from the shop, so we've designed a killer whose sole reason for existing is additional skins. Oh, and let's work this clever scheme into Legion's 'lore' so people can't accuse us of being greedy (is it just a coincidence that both Joey and Susie look really cool while Frank and Julie are identical minus gender?).
- We don't test our patches at all (I'm aware that not every bug can be caught by a QA team, but some are so obvious that anyone playing for less than a minute could've easily found them, especially sound related bugs).
- We will randomly nerf perks that don't need it and any killer who benefited from them regardless of their actual strength.
- What is decisive strike again?
I'm losing my will to play this game, slowly but surely.
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Mfw it takes BVHR literal MONTHS to even consider changing decisive strike (with zero updates on its status since their last version didn't feel 'satisfying' enough).
Meanwhile, all aura perks for killer were nerfed with locker buffs.. (even though they already have counters) in a surprise patch. Then, as a meme, they present us with iron maiden as the answer to changes they just made (perk sucks, by the way).
:thinkingemoji:
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Nerfing the nurse would be disastrous considering the current state of the game. Why do you think so many players go through the pain of learning how to be effective with this killer? Easy, she's a soft-counter to all but the most coordinated, skilled SWF groups and she doesn't get led around like a rodeo clown for five generators.
Survivors don't typically enjoy playing against the nurse. Why? Simple, because she punishes their comfortable play style revolving around loops and semi-infinites that, when utilized properly, can make them completely uncatchable by every other killer. The nurse is the one killer in the game that can determine the outcome of a match based solely on your level of skill (not the survivor's), a fact that cannot be truthfully disputed in favor of any other killer.
Until BVHR learns how to design killers that are both powerful and fair, the nurse should remain as she is.
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You'd think I had fun that game. Wrong.
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This can only get better....
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@Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:
CoolAKn said:It's a good start. If it's not already, the time spent using the ability should equal the time needed to cool down (use the ability for 15 seconds, need a 15 second cool down). Also, her power should recharge, not have a cool down, with a minimum of 5 seconds (33%) to use it. There should also be a few add-ons that would increase the ability's time (and therefore the cool down/recharge as well, as long as it's proportional). Additional add-ons could allow for faster recharge (up to 50% faster).
I'm not sure if we'll ever see it work like that. I'm just glad to see her get a buff, even if it's small like this one. Hopefully we can see some more in upcoming updates!
I was just kidding. She's still nowhere near an acceptable level of power with the severe drawbacks she has.
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Highest of low tier in my opinion. Unrewarding, slow, and an unbalanced skill/reward ratio. They nailed everything about this character but fell flat where it mattered - her mechanical effectiveness. Wait two years for a substantial buff I'd say.
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Easily top tier material now. As good as nurse and billy imo. >.>'''
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The Spirit (like every killer in the game except for the top two) suffers from being a horror character in an action game. You're not really supposed to win or make progress with her, merely inconvenience the survivors with your slightly annoying and ineffectual power. The developers have to make sure that new killers are hot garbage on release for a minimum of 2 years before a buff/rework.
There's no way you can release this many underwhelming killers in a row by accident. It's intentional.
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I think the main reason people are annoyed is because they spent money on both dlc killers (Hag/Doctor - excluding licensed killers since they are still pay only) before earning them via play time was even an option. Had earning killers through shards been a thing, I know very well that my choice to spend money on either would've been reversed in favor of simply playing to get them. I completely understand why some people are irritated about no compensation (auric cells or anything substantial), as many were likely never under the impression that something they paid money for could go up for free.
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Every 23 years on the 23rd spring for 23 days.. it gets to eat..
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Games are about winning, not having fun. That's a thing of the past ; )
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A mid tier killer who's overall pretty 'meh'. Like a lot of the mid tiers, he's got an awesome concept/aesthetic, but just falls flat vs the most common tactics utilized by survivors.
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@MoonMoon Can I get detailed instructions on how to play the patch you're on? Thank you! : )
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Trying to win the game or do as well as possible does not make you an ######### (this logic applies to both sides, no matter how annoying). Using efficient tactics pending on your situation does not suddenly make you a lesser person. These are some awfully weird ideas that some people bring up.
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Tinkerer is going from very strong on a handful of killers w/add-ons to weak on everyone (waste of a slot). Killers should be treated with the exact same caution as survivors (since d-strike and self-care changes aren't coming this patch for some reason) - do not push tinkerer live in its current state. It is bad, it will not be used, and killers will have -1 perk.
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I understand your frustration, and don't worry, no side is completely blameless in this issue. Survivors, I will say one thing to you though, and I'd like you to think about it: when all of your second chances are nerfed or reworked and the maps are re-balanced, I hope killer mains are kinder to you lot than you were to them. I hope they choose mercy over wrath.
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For those wondering about the trapper buffs making him viable or top tier... I've got some bad news. Based on what was shown/confirmed by the devs thus far, trapper's buffs do little to fix his two major issues - unbalanced risk reward (setup time vs potential trappings) and SWF completely demolishing him as a killer. While his buffs are a step in the right direction, this will in no way put trapper above or near the triumvirate of killers (Nurse, Billy, and Huntress).
Here's what will likely happen post buff:
- His traps will still be easily seen and disarmed.
- While SWF can ruin most killers, trapper (and hag) suffers far more due to his play style - survivors have multiple pairs of eyes and free communication to point out his setups.
- Hitboxes of the traps will still be wonky.
- The trap placement highlight will still be buggy and highly restrictive.
- Traps will not put a survivor into the downed state if they're injured prior to stepping in them.
- We will wait another 2 years for buffs.
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Doctor is in this weird position where he's fun to play, but an absolute nightmare to play against. Not because he's overpowered or even viable, but just because he makes you manage a ton more than you're used to. I get it, but I'm still gonna play him. Nothing personal. : P
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I also agree with mid tier placement. His chase is decent if your aim is solid, but he suffers (again.. AGAIN) like all other killers from looping. He forces an early drop at best, which.. y'know, means little since there are so many pallets on each map. Oh, and he has like.. non-existent map pressure. Prettyfeelsbad
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Any perk that allows survivors to be self-sufficient and -not- have to rely on their teammates in a team game should go in my opinion. Sorta defeats the purpose of a 'team' in a team game if you can just do everything for yourself.
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You camped by being on the same map as them. They bought generator simulator 2016, not this. : (
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Killer is in this weird spot where it's just addictive enough to keep you playing, but also about equally frustrating. What you have in the end is a feeling akin to mild addiction - ie. when you get your fix you're happy initially, but when the effects start to wear off you remember how terrible it truly is.
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@EpicFailTryHard said:
a sincere and heartfelt thank you. i have had as much fun playing this game tonight as i did the first night the game came out on ps4. i can play killer again without the necessity of camping and tunneling. that is all i ever wanted. i wish a long and prosperous career for all of you. this is still the very best videogame i have ever played. you guys are truly awesome.Is there a patch I missed?
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Maps that favor -nobody- are what most killer mains are asking for. Nobody is telling the developers to make the maps killer-sided at all, we just want a fair chance on all of them. That's it. I'm gonna bold this next part for any survivor mains out there, just because I'm not sure how many of you are aware of how this game is designed:
I do not wish to beat you because you or your team made mistakes that I could then punish. I want to beat you by outplaying you and earn my merit that way. As Dead by Daylight stands, if you play a perfect game, know your loops/maps, and have optimal generator rotation, I am prevented, via game design, from doing anything to you as a killer. My skill is not factored into our encounter, only your skill and that of your team is taken into consideration. As a survivor, you control the flow of the entire game, and I (and all killer mains no matter how 'skilled' they are) cannot challenge your skill with my own due to the limitations presented by the kit of the killer I'm playing (exception: nurse is the one killer with a skill cap high enough to challenge and even beat good survivors on the odd occasion; plot twist, most survivors don't like the nurse.
Your resources are too vast, your perks too powerful, and most maps are highly in your favor. This isn't a cry born of incompetence, as I've both beaten and been beaten by very skilled survivors before. But every victory I've earned is bittersweet at best. Why? They made mistakes, and I could only react to those mistakes because they were present to begin with. I can never challenge a survivor who is playing optimally as any non-nurse killer in this game and come out on top, because it's not a matter of 'my skill vs his'. I am relying on him to mess up that loop, drop the pallet late, or get mind gamed on that jungle gym. I'm sick of playing a reactive role and would much prefer being proactive as the killer; the single entity needs to be powerful to compensate for being outnumbered four to one.
TLDR: Killers want balanced maps that favor neither side, and as for myself: I want to beat survivors who are playing optimally when I am doing the same. If both sides are of the same general level of skill, I want it to be a good match, not a one-sided rodeo where all four survivors mirror the skill of one another making any chase pointless.
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@RSB said:
@Unit said:
Despite it being a strategy Camping is one of the most annoying things to come across as a survivor. I think I have a solution that may seem overpowered but really helps bring the negativity down. It would work like this: once a survivor is hooked a circle appears in the killers veiw this will be the no go zone if the killer is in this zone actions(gens,healing,cleansing) are done faster the longer they're in the circle the faster it gets."How do you do, fellow killers"?
I see you have the wraith as your portrait. My condolences.. despite the irony of my own avatar of choice. >.>''
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Devour hope is a 'on paper this looks super powerful!' perk. In practice with everything that comes attached to it (totem spawns), no. No it's not.
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Just got out of a game, and I asked the survivors after the match a question they not only couldn't answer, but likely weren't expecting. I got a 3k due to their overly altruistic ways and secured an early game kill on a classic survivor troll (P3 Claud w/flashlight and DS - oh, and you know she blinded at every pallet). Naturally, they were not pleased, and when I said gg in the post game lobby and said "I would've left that person on the hook, though." They replied with "I wouldn't have camped, though."
So I said to the survivor: "Ok, when I have two people on gates, on blood lodge, when I'm playing Clown, and one person hooked, what am I supposed to do? I told them I was willing to listen to any alternatives they might've had that could be a more effective strategy. To cut this short, their last reply before I exited the lobby was.. "K, whatever."
Remember fellow killers, survivors will always try to shame you into playing their way, and I implore you not to listen. Unless they can come up with a better strategy that would net you more points, they're just blowing off steam because they or their friend died in a video game.
TLDR: Survivors get mad when they're camped but are incapable of suggesting practical alternatives to the play style, especially when the gates are powered or open. As someone who plays both roles, I can understand why camping is frustrating, but I also understand why a killer might do it.
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That's the thing with a lot of killer perks, there's usually some kind of work around if they're especially powerful. I wish that courtesy extended both ways V_V
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I mean, playing at high ranks isn't the worst thing in the world... but if I tried to convince you that it was anywhere near as fun as lower ranks.. I'd be lying. At least on killer. As a survivor it's the complete opposite. If there was some kind of benefit to being higher rank, I wouldn't mind getting there on killer/survivor every season. Right now, ranking up just feels like a punishment due to how poorly the game's balanced at the moment.