BadMrFrosty
BadMrFrosty
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- BadMrFrosty
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@Blueberry said:
People are quick to jump, but keep in mind, it's for good reason.
When a rework for example takes 2 years to come the expectations are very, very high and critical.
Also because we know how long changes take if something isn't right. If changes were made quickly people wouldn't be as harsh in their judgements.
The fact that BVHR is batting 3/15 for playable killers at high levels of play is also a cause for concern. Let me tell you, they wouldn't pass me on any test with a score like that.
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@Weederick said:
Just for the math: Stalking survivors for 4s allows them to run 16m, which takes 26,6s to catch up, while he only has 20s of exposed.
He seems like a strictly worse Myers overall. First impression is weak.
Yeah, and that's without sprint burst which is already looking like his hard counter. Most chases against standard killers last at least a minute on average. I'm not fully understanding where they're getting these numbers or what made them think this was even a good baseline to start at.
Baffling. I'm just confused about it is all.
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What I'd change about trapper specifically:
- Trapper now carries all of his traps on him.
- Traps now inflict 1 health state of damage, always; injured survivors are downed.
- Survivors no longer receive a random chance to escape traps. Trapped survivors can only be freed by teammates.
- Traps apply the hindered status for X amount of time to escaped survivor (can be modified by add-ons).
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Nurse. That's it.
Every other killer has significant disadvantages to their baseline power that can be played around by competent survivors.
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Low tier like most of the cast. Every good killer BVHR has come out with has been a complete fluke based on their record.
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Not really. Going by BVHR's track record, they'll have to really deliver on whatever they promise before I start getting excited or hyped for anything they do. Past experiences and what not.
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Couple things from my own experience (60/40 in favor of killer).
- Play both sides to understand the roles more completely.
- Study the maps, and familiarize yourself with trouble spots that are consistent on them.
- Don't be afraid to abandon chasing survivors that know how to maximize resources and tile efficiency. Unfortunately, if they're all good survivors, you're going to lose that game, it's inevitable.
- If you're super competitive, play only nurse and spirit. No other killers offer nearly as much against the best survivors (nurse completely ignores survivor defenses if played well and spirit mitigates them somewhat through guessing games). Even then, I'd highly suggest only playing nurse if losing is just that terrifying for you.
- Adjust your strategy depending on the play style of the survivors (I'm still bad at this, since I'm a pretty 'nice' killer, having played both sides). What this means is, patrol/camp if they all rush the hook constantly (they're at least not doing generators), or tunnel down a survivor if you have few gens left and no pressure. It sucks for them, but you'll lose the game faster with four of them on the map (by 2 gens left, 1 survivor is hopefully dead). Ideally, everyone gets a fair shot at playing the video game, but as we all know, there are certain aspects of the game that are designed in a way to encourage general scumbaggery.
- Try to control a pocket of generators, this usually forces survivors to do the ones on the outskirts of the map which are typically further away and harder for you to patrol on most non-mobile killers.
- Recognize that against a hyper optimized group of solo/SWF survivors running the best perks (typically a shitload of second chance style perks like DS, MoM, Adrenaline, etc), you're going to lose. The number of mistakes they would have to make to lose with such an insanely powerful toolkit is uncanny.
- Know which maps are good/bad for your specific killer. An easy example of an incredibly bad killer map for most of the cast is Haddonfield, where most killers will struggle due to the existence of semi-infinites in houses, buttloads of open windows, and balanced landing exacerbating the issue.
- Learn how to properly run certain tiles within the capabilities of the killer you're playing. Any non-nurse killer can benefit from this information, as they will have to play into certain setups at some point. Also, learn which setups are too risky to chase a survivor into (double jungle gyms next to shack would be unadvised against a good survivor).
- Try your best to have fun and just remember, you're not the power role. Everything you do as a killer is dictated by the survivors. You are not proactive, you are reactive. For competitive-minded folks, you have two options in nurse and spirit for winning semi-consistently and 3 - 4k'ing. If you play other killers, it'll just be for fun or variety, never expect to win against decent survivors. You're playing something different for the sake of your own sanity at this point. The balance in the game, while better than in the past, is still woefully inadequate. Think of winning as a bonus if you're doing a killer rotation, that way, you'll maintain your will to play the game until BVHR decides it's time to actually fix their product.
- Vote with your wallet! If you don't agree with how BVHR is running their game, don't buy those auric cells or killers with real money. Save up shards and get content for free or just don't play the game. A loss in income and player count will highlight for them that something is wrong with their game and that they should look into it.
- Ah, and last but not least, I recommend breaks from this game every so often if it becomes too frustrating. A couple days, a week, or maybe even a few months. Your skill will decline a bit, but it'll be worth it in the end as you'll still have the game installed and ready to play. DBD's only advantages at the moment are its licensed acquisitions, casualness, and zero serious competition in the market.
- I hope these tips help you. Good luck and have fun (where possible).
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I figure BVHR is completely satisfied with how Plague turned out. After all, it's not the skill of the killer determining the matches that they're trying to balance around. So long as the survivors can stop the killer from not only catching them, but from using the most appealing part of their kit, it's a major success.
It doesn't surprise me that McClean had a hand in Plague's design. For someone that doesn't seem awful at the game, he doesn't seem to understand what makes the best killers as strong as they are (hint: powers not being under the control of survivors is one of those things).
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5% meme groups, 10% SWF, 40% competent solos, and 45% potatoes.
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How about fall damage from survivors? Y'know, the humans who fall from ridiculous heights no problem and don't even take damage. -1 health state based on fall distance from survivors who fall from great heights (this damage can down them as well).
Would also get rid of a lot of balanced landing cheese and other tile exploits.
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How it has worked since Plague's release for me:
- On my team? 2 gens in 6 minutes.
- Playing killer? 3 in 2 and half, give or take.
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There is some soft counterplay against all but the best nurses. Legion has about zero if they're not completely new to the game. Their kit has everything you'd need built in, and all you have to do is M2 for easy M1's.
What Legion does is put every survivor on a 30 second chase timer (less w/franks), thereby nullifying the skill difference between a godlike survivor and an average or terrible one.
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Nope. Not until BVHR fixes the core issues of their game. Haven't spent a dime since getting frigged over with Freddy. Everything has been either free w/shards or gifted. If they fix the game, then I'll support them with my hard earned dollars. That's the deal.
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I wouldn't mind facing huntress if her hitboxes weren't broken as hell. Fix those, and I don't really care about the iridescent head, to be honest. They just make a glaring issue all the more obvious.
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She ate the Entity.
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@mintchapstick said:
Adam. I hate Adam's hair, and I hate his cosmetics. They're so cruel to him. He could have been way better designed. Not all hi-top fades have to be so bad! I know they wanted to do an 80s vibe with him (and he is very 80s, they achieved that), but goddamn. You can do both.
You hate Adam? Is it because he's a scientist?
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I play survivor and killer about equally, but even I've noticed that the last two weeks have probably been the worst I've ever had in DBD as both. With killer, my lobbies fill up so slowly (R3 atm) that I have no desire to play it, as I'm waiting like 15 minutes or more for a match (whether or not every player connects or stays is another issue entirely). As a survivor, my games come lightning fast, but the quality of my matches/teammates has gotten drastically worse compared to what I'm used to.
I'm one of those guys that tries to 'power through' the difficulty, even in its current state, but even I've gotten frustrated with it to the point where I've disconnected a couple times. It's really awful right now, especially since I'd usually play a match through to its conclusion, regardless of the situation. Recently however, it's gotten so bad that the game has squeezed some dc's out of me, something that it had rarely, -rarely- done prior. I can't explain it, but somehow this game is becoming less and less fun over time, and it's impacting my desire to stick with it.
Yes, I know disconnecting is selfish and not cool, I acknowledge that. However, when you consistently get games where your teammates cannot even do two gens in three to four minutes without ruin, let alone with... yeah. Or when you do three and a half gens UNDER ruin and everyone but you escapes after you spend some time leading the killer around. It's.. just the worst.
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Some kind of bestial killer that builds a meter over time to transform into a powerful werewolf for a limited duration.
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@Delfador said:
@BadMrFrosty It is just not that.
We already have seen the character model and perks. There is a lot of people who would buy the chapter, it would be one of the worst business decisions ever made tbh.
No company will waste money just so that they can make a prank, no way.
You've never been BVHR'd, have you? :(
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Imagine if this was all an elaborate ruse for April Fool's despite the release date. I'll reserve my hype. Now you say, "Surely BVHR wouldn't do something so obviously stupid as to bait a beloved horror character only to prank the player base in the end. WELL.."
I'll just take the exit ahead of time, just in case.
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I could simplify this a bit more.
Tournament Viable: Nurse.
Ranked Viable: Spirit and Billy.
Sad Bois: Everyone else.
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His power is a mild annoyance at best and his map pressure is non-existent. Makes me a sad panda.
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It's weeks like these that remind me how nice of a killer I am. Holy #########, I thought I was being mean sometimes... I got nothin' on some of these guys.
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The only thing that makes Plague appear even remotely strong is the ignorance of the casual survivor community. The second they're infected, they typically run to wells and cleanse almost immediately, not thinking that this only makes the game twice as hard for no reason. Plague's power is completely under the control of the survivors, and once the average player figures this out, she'll disappear from the ranked pool like most of the other killers.
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@Caretaker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/388684#Comment_388684
100%. She's so amazingly well designed, but in-game she's easily the worst killer in the game which is sad. I love her cosmetics, I love her map, Red Forest especially. I like playing as her, but the frustration you feel from seeing puke just go through people. Hit, but not actually do damage. Having a ton of people sick, then suddenly full health as your gens pop. I really hope they at least address the grind/core soon.
I don't want to have to sweat every game. I want to give people a fun time, but I just can't if I want any kind of chance at pipping, or getting points.
As I've unfortunately said too many times before, it's back to business as usual. BVHR doesn't seem to be interested in promoting a more varied killer pool for the higher ranks. It's just confusing how they'll release changes for the game that hint they'd like it to be taken somewhat seriously (the recent ranking changes), but in the same swing release yet another 'ok' killer that can't compete at the higher ranks. Mixed message city.
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You can tell the developers don't have any kind of top tier play in mind when they design killers. In about a week or less survivors have adapted to the Plague and I've been seeing her a lot less. It's a shame since her appearance and mechanics are well done.
Her three major weaknesses are things that cannot be excused in a killer:
- Poor map pressure, mobility, and chase potential.
For a killer to be considered viable and strong in Dead by Daylight, they need to have at least two of those advantages, but preferably all three. With the speed in which generators are completed (being the only true objective survivors have), killers that do not have the ability to pressure the map by chaining quick downs will -never- be considered strong.
Unless the developers are willing to alter, change, or add to the core mechanics of the game, this will always be the case.
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I guess this is the part where someone says.. "She's fun." They wouldn't be wrong by the way, she's just weak against decent survivors. That's a problem most of the cast faces at the moment, so at least she'll fit in with the undertuned killers.
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I'm not really that excited to be honest. If BVHR's current track record of new killers (spirit being the only good one) is any indication of how this rework will turn out, then I'm not getting my hopes up. He'll probably end up being 'just ok'.
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No map pressure and non-existent mobility pretty much ensure that she remains in the middle of the pack at best. Against good survivors, she's undoubtedly at the lower end of any tier list, I'd imagine. I think people are just happy she wasn't a disaster from a design perspective like Legion, so she got a pass for the first week or so. Once the dust settles, it'll be back to the usual suspects in ranked.
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@ItsYourBoyGuzma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/54037/here-is-what-killers-face-everyday
Dude this is old as #########, I hope GenJake is doing alright irl
He's doing gens. U?
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I won't put the blame on streamers for the actions of others, as it's not their responsibility to babysit the community. Fog Whisperers would be an exception to this rule I'd imagine, but I'm not familiar with what their duties actually entail.
There may be streamers that popularize the idea that it's ok to disconnect from a game if it doesn't meet your criteria for fun, and if their following is big enough, that does have to potential to spread to a more impressionable audience. Again, unless they're purposely going against the spirit (waahhh!) of a role like Fog Whisperer, it's not their responsibility to maintain the overall health of the game, even if it's only advantageous for them to do so.
This is a human problem. The community will have to somehow fix itself and deal with this bizarre level of entitlement, or watch the game slowly dwindle in time.
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I did ask for the game to properly balanced, so if all these 3v1's I've been having recently are a result of their efforts........... well, they tried I guess. Careful what you wish for?
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If they made perks have only one rank, it'd surely make the increasing grind less overbearing.
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I like Clayfighters on the SNES.
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It didn't take long for survivors to adapt to her, that and her abysmal point gain doesn't really give incentive to play her over other, more powerful options. Plague is also pretty mediocre in terms of her kill potential and efficiency, especially after the nerfs she received coming out of the PTB. I'm afraid it's business as usual after this week for most killers.
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title says it all
If you want a killer who looks wicked and has fun mechanics, then yes. If you're expecting a high tier killer, then I'd say no.
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I've had to purposely extend the game on killer to get enough points to pip. If I play very well (down all survivors within 2 - 3 minutes), I cannot capitalize on my advantage completely or I will not meet BVHR's current requirement to rank up (Rank 5 going on 4). At best I will safety, and at worse I might actually depip.
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I wouldn't say DBD is dying. The game acts more like a revolving door with occasional spurts of growth when new content hits. Those new players are likely to just leave as fast as they came back, however. At its core, the game hasn't evolved significantly in about 3+ years.
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If every killer was competitively viable (tournament level play), then I would say yes, we have enough. Since that isn't the case, I'll have to say no. If you have 15 killers but only see 3, do you really have 15 killers? :' (
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Nerfing the nurse would likely cause a significant drop in the killer base, as she's one of few killers that rewards your skill, not the survivors. Touching her in any way before the bigger problems in the game are addressed would be a disastrous move.
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@Sonicwb said:
I disagree, I'm a killer Main and she is fine the way she is. You just have use a strategy.
Care to elaborate? What strategy or strategies have you found with plague that make her comparable to the three best killers in the game? I'm curious to read what you've discovered.
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BVHR takes the approach of 'better to release something underpowered than overpowered and tweak it in 3 - 12 months, if at all. It's a pretty unfortunate situation that has allowed the current meta to stagnate for.. years now.
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As the plague currently stands, I don't think she meets the standard of what is considered to be a strong killer (the big 3; nurse, spirit, and billy). She is fun to play and looks incredible, but without a decent number of changes and a revert of her nerf, she'll be relegated to "just ok" status before long.
Ideally, a large variation in killers at the higher ranks is the goal here with some of these suggested changes, especially the first one. Making survivors choose whether to self-care or remain injured against a full movement speed killer would really give her a solid boost. When paired with everything else, it could also elevate her to a higher tier of potential.
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Not a fan of the change to her puke. Movement speed is crucial to a killer during the chase, and the second you take it away for any reason barring the most powerful abilities, they're almost guaranteed to be underwhelming or terrible. I don't think it's within BVHR's capacity to learn this, as if they had, they wouldn't keep making the same mistakes (releasing 110% MS killers or building large slows into average powers).
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I wouldn't say she's worse than Leatherface, but she's definitely not powerful. She's fun to play but mediocre in terms of her power/efficiency (aesthetically pleasing, too). That's about all I can say.
Dead by Daylight is not a complex, multilayered game with tons of in depth mechanics and difficult to master fundamentals (like a fighting game, for instance). With that said, the relative strength of killers can be determined fairly early with a high degree of accuracy, given that the standard for a good killer has already been set (Nurse, Billy, and Spirit).
I'm confident that plague will sit in the middle of any 'tier list' that people concoct post patch.
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In short, I find the huntress to be uninteresting and bland conceptually. Nothing about her is really 'scary' in my opinion and I feel she stands out negatively in contrast with the rest of the cast (who are comparatively speaking, much more horror-esque, if that makes sense). Balance wise I feel she's fine, but I don't like playing against her due to her inconsistent and outright broken hitboxes on hatchets (this negatively impacts both the killer and survivors). Oh, and her perks are total #########, so I've left her at level 1 to avoid clogging up my precious blood web.
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@BigBlackMori said:
@Ryuhi said:
so basically that was the longest winded "I lose people as legion sometimes, so you're wrong" I've ever seen. You bring into account my ability to play survivor multiple times in your response, but you ignore the fact that design problems stemming from a killer's lack of ability does not equal counterplay. Every single one of those "answers" revolved around the killer messing up. Thats not how counterplay works.I personally don't hate playing against the legion, but I have seen enough of him from both sides to know what he is and isnt capable of. The point of the discussion is that a legion who does not mess up will never lose a chase vs a survivor of equal or higher skill. The survivor can draw the chase out, but it WILL end in them down unless the legion makes big mistakes. The reason so many people take issue with this is because even the nurse has more counterplay due to her being required to blink to catch up to survivors, and survivors being able to manipulate her landing spots with obstacles as well as LoS blocking and actual mindgames therein.
Umm....he was right, though. Like...everything he said. Legion is to survivors as every survivor is to al other Killers - if he plays perfectly, he wins. If he capitalizes on his opponents' mistakes, he wins.
Congratulations, Survivors. Now you know how Killer mains feel all the time.
What really ######### with me here is that he's right. I play both roles, and I have to say that last bolded part mirrors my exact thoughts on Legion overall.
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Maybe they could give killers realistic hitboxes based on the size of the weapon, and, if they're using something smaller than normal, up the movement speed boost they receive on their lunge to compensate?
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I have absolutely no proof that Freddy will be awful after his rework, and it would be unreasonable for me to assume such a thing without that evidence.
Going by the track record of the devs, though... he's probably still gonna suck. If he doesn't, I will issue a personal apology to the team. At the moment, it's safe to say he's just another 'step' on the rework hierarchy that they're going to rush through.