AsherFrost
AsherFrost
About
- Username
- AsherFrost
- Joined
- Visits
- 2,429
- Last Active
Comments
-
@BoriskyTheFox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804029#Comment_2804029
It might be easy for SWFs but im talking about solo teams. This perk is straight up overpowered if its used against solo survs because they have no coordination.
I have never had any issue snuffing a single lit totem in any game I've played as solo survivor, which is the majority of the games I play.
-
@BoriskyTheFox said:
Countering it requires a lot of effort and killers can secure at least 1 kill thanks to NOED. Thats why its unfair.
You find snuffing a single lit totem to be "a lot of effort"?
-
@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803979#Comment_2803979
It is not an argument of authority. It is nothing more than getting another argument coming from an expert on the topic. It doesn't necessarily say that they are right... only that it doesn't come out of nowhere "for no reason". I also said that Otz's change would overnerf the perk.
Literally a textbook definition, that you then tripled down on. Should we then start naming streamers who don't think noed should be changed? Or should we go back to the actual merits of the argument?
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803491#Comment_2803491
I'm still not convinced it would bring back gen tapping when, to my knowledge, that tactic was a thing specifically because of old Ruin.
Also, if you want the generator to explode if you sprint off it that would be a change, because that isn't how it works now. It might happen because it could happen any time you let go of a generator, but it's not a guarantee. Right now there is no safe time to let go of a generator, it could happen at any moment.
Yeah, the uncertainty seems to be the issue people have, so I proposed a simple way to not only make it a sure thing for both sides, but also fit in with the other, similar game mechanics. It seems clear the devs want there to be at least a chance of it exploding when you leave, because this has been a thing for quite some time, but with my change, survivors aren't caught off guard by it, which helps them while still giving killers a reason to try and scare survivors away from gens.
We're both proposing a change, I just think that mine is keeping in the spirit of the game more, and less open to possible exploit.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803449#Comment_2803449
But the only way the killer would get a notification for which gen you're on is if you miss a skill check, and who is actually missing skill checks so regularly that gen tapping is a viable strategy? You lose so much more than that miniscule potential advantage that it really seems kind of silly to bring it up in this context.
Skill checks aren't hard, I thought pretty much everyone agreed with that. Unless I'm missing something regarding your argument here?
Enough for it to still be a thing? I don't exactly have access to that kind of information for other survivors. Also, I main doc, so my killer matches really won't help, as madness is a factor. I just know that the number of people failing skill checks is more than zero.
I'm all for fixing it so that If you leave a gen slowly after working on it for a set amount of time (even if it's just 5 seconds) it doesn't explode. However I do feel if you rush off the gen it should (just like fast vaulting and closet hopping while sprinting does) and I don't think we should be doing anything that brings back annoying bullshit we got rid of before (like gen tapping).
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803424#Comment_2803424
1: Yeah, fair enough.
2: ...Is that a bad thing? Gens fly past very quickly right now, and anyone who actually cares about gen speed isn't going to do it since they want skill checks so I'm not convinced it actually would end up that way.
3: This one is a fair point and I agree, but it still assumes that a majority of survivors will gen tap when it does nothing for them. It used to because it circumvented old Ruin, but that isn't the case anymore.
4: Maybe this is me being pedantic but I'm pretty sure the literal definition of exploit requires that it give some kind of advantage, not just be an unintended effect. To borrow from another game, in Borderlands 2 you can do an amusing camera trick with certain shotguns where it visually spins around if you aim while looking straight up- it's unintended and it's even a bug, but because it does literally nothing for you and is just amusing to look at, I don't see anyone calling it an exploit.
Sure if the gen is slowed by the game itself that's one thing. If it's slowed because my teammates are asses, that's a different Matter entirely.
How is "denying a chance at the killer getting a notification on which gen I'm on" not an advantage?
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803416#Comment_2803416
My point is more that it gives no advantage and doesn't really have any downsides, so why not? Leaving a generator and having the skill check spawn at the same time just feels bad, and the hypothetical of people avoiding skill checks only counts as a flaw if we aren't accepting the reality that getting a skill check is a good thing once you've played more than a handful of games. You want to hit skill checks, there are a ton of mechanics and incentives surrounding it.
Gen tapping to avoid skill checks would return, but... who cares? What would the benefit for that survivor be, and what would the downside for the killer/other survivors be?
1. It makes it so that my survivor matches are just visually more annoying watching my teammates t bag gens.
2. It makes them longer as it takes longer to repair.
3. It screws over killers who rely on the information based gen perks.
4. It is the literal definition of exploit, so why should the fix to it be removed?
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803252#Comment_2803252
Right, but what would they actually gain from that? They'd be denying themselves BP, they'd be denying themselves the possible extra progression from Great skill checks, and they gain... the ability to avoid doing something that is trivially easy with a tiny amount of practice?
They'd still be making things worse for themselves by doing that, and it would avoid the problem being discussed, so I don't see any reason not to do it.
They may or may not be. Just like afk pig isn't really putting themselves in a position to win, just like running to the top of the map to keep from being hooked wasn't getting gens done. I could list more examples, but my point is we are far from a place where players only try to win.
Also yes, the gen tapping to get around skill checks was something that used to occur, so I don't doubt it would return.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2802788#Comment_2802788
I'm not even sure I have to argue this point, you're kinda doing it for me.
I'm not sure if I've ever heard anyone say that Survivors should be punished for leaving the gen as a Killer approaches.
I also don't think I can convince you and I think that everyone else can see the reasonable argument, so I think I'm done responding, unless something else piques my interest.
I've read this conversation twice now.
It's my opinion that AK's not saying that survivors should be punished for leaving gens. He's saying they should be for rushing away. The same way survivors are currently "punished" for fast vaulting, jumping into a closet while sprinting, etc.
The game has always made a distinction between slow and considered moves (like waiting for and hitting a skill check before moving off the gen for the rescue) over rushed, unplanned actions (sprinting away from the gen because you just saw the killer). Why should that change now? And how would such a change honestly be a "QOL change" and not a flat out buff?
Then too, there is the mechanic of the "gen tap" where survivors will progress bit by bit, instead of actually committing to the repair, in order to avoid the skill checks. Used to happen a ton, until the changes to skill checks made that no longer viable. It seems you want to go back to those days, why?
-
@dictep said:
easy, if a killer doesn’t kill anyone before egc and you have as surv more rhan 500 hours... he has noed. I don’t know how someone can think this is fair and why he is at such rank level
Please show me where bhvr has stated at any point that killers are required to get kills before the last generator had been done.
-
If you are dumb enough to run up a staircase with no other way down while being chased, there is no help for you. Do you also run up the stairs to the dead end on Midwitch when you're being chased? Or straight down to the basement? This is literally one of the earliest horror movie tropes in existence.
-
@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798729#Comment_2798729
I don't get it. What's is this supposed to illustrate?
My fondness for the patterns that you can find in life.
-
I'll be honest. I stopped reading at "boobs jiggling around"
-
Presented without comment.
-
@Majin151 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797351#Comment_2797351
I find it funny how they said that they hate killer mains when both sides are calling out their bs lmao
Rule #1 of the DbD forums. Anyone who disagrees with you mains the other side, even if they say they don't.
-
@Rogue11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798185#Comment_2798185
So take the stairs or don't greed for a basement hook if it's far away? The perk isn't hidden or anything.
I already see it far less than just a couple weeks ago and it hasn't even been nerfed yet.
We should wait and see how the extra hooks in high areas play out before relegating another perk to the trash.
And also don't try and pick anyone up who's in the first level of dead dawg saloon's saloon. That "drop" from the inside to The outside is apparently pretty great.
Which seriously, I don't care about percentage as much as just making "great height" 10ft or something. Just an actual, measurable, stable distance that can be relied on by both sides
-
@BabyCameron10 said:
I know it’s getting a change soon but for now, How do you guys deal with it?
I felt like a POS for a slugging a Nea who brought Boil Over and a Crow’s Eye offering. She kept going to the top and wanted to get downed there so she can get use out of Boil Over and I can prevent hooking her. I didn’t bother hooking her because there wasn’t any hooks around.
I didn’t really struggle to keep her there as I was playing The Twins. It was pretty funny as I kept her on the ground with Charlotte and went to apply pressure with Victor. I would’ve really like to see her reaction but she was on a different platform. I felt pretty scummy for doing that to her but she kinda had it in for her. She ended up getting killed because of the timer for being slugged so long.
Is there any way to get to the hook in a situation like that or do I keep doing that for now?
The only real counter is to slug. I wouldn't feel bad for slugging, you aren't trying to be malicious or intentionally waste anybody's time or BM them. You're just trying to win a game. Of course the same could probably be argued for the Survivor who is trying to get away and not get hooked so that they survive and win a game. But I guess that's where the issues with the word abuse come into play
-
@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798456#Comment_2798456
Awesome! So it’s just Sadique right?
Yes. I got the name when the first version of Xbox live launched, and never changed it. The gamerpic is a wizard, to help make sure you found me
-
Absolutely. It may take a couple days to accept, (out of town on work) but I'm always happy to make more friends
-
I've played with a few of you, but on Xbox am known as Sadique
-
I see flashlights when someone turns them on in the dark.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798055#Comment_2798055
Actually, I believe BHVR have gone on record to say that camping, slugging and tunnelling are valid strategies. The only thing they've stated is that they want to remove -face-camping, not regular camping.
But in disregard of the devs' stance, it is the current state of the game that camping is a very powerful tactic. As are tunnelling and slugging. You can complain about having to use those tactics to win, and I'd be sympathetic. But you're also in the minority on these forums as evidenced by how many times complaints about camping, tunnelling and slugging get brought up by survivors and subsequently discredited.
I'd be all for a big balancing overhaul where those three tactics are kneecapped and survivors are toned down to compensate. But that requires a strong enough consensus from the community to convince the devs to do that for the sake of game health. And as it stands, people just want to nerf the opposite side without losing what they have themselves.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798059#Comment_2798059
Out of a string of 75 matches, he lost one. That's pretty good consistency in my book. Even by the metric you post, a 66% win rate is pretty damn high and it shows that a competent killer can easily win much more than lose.
Matchmaking being wonk is a fair counterargument, but that also throws a spanner into the idea of the game being survivor-sided, since we clearly don't have a way to actually assess what the average game is -supposed- to look like due to matchmaking errors.
And again I would remind you that I've never claimed the game is survivor sided, so I don't care if they argument is invalidated, as it isn't mine.
And again, 75 wins and 1 loss of the matches he showed. It's up to you if you believe that's every match he had, obviously I feel differently.
-
@Pulsar said:
Balanced it may be, but the fun isn't there for many people anymore, myself included.
I can no longer delude myself into believing the game will evolve into the potential we all know it has and without that hope of improvement, I found no reason to stick around, except for my friends.
That's a whole different discussion, but yeah, this is a game. If you aren't having fun, please play something else. Leisure time shouldn't stress you, the real world does that well enough on its own. Personally I'm hoping the rumored TCM game being made by a lot of the F13 team is going to be sweet, but we'll see.
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797866#Comment_2797866
And where have I said the game is survivor-sided?
He's decided we all feel that way, whether we say it or not.
-
@Lx_malice said:
The game is favored to the side im not playing in any given match. lol
That's the truth right there!
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797999#Comment_2797999
He also ran perkless with a 30 second delay. And even then, those are matches the average killer can get as well.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798011#Comment_2798011
So then why does Otz consistently win his matches, when according to the forums, the average killer barely struggles to average 1 to 2 hooks? Unless the forums are, for some reason, consistently matched against higher survivors than a killer player who is apparently too good to be compared to, but I think that would be indicative of a very different problem.
1. How much is consistently? From the videos I've seen he posts about 2 wins to each loss, which, if every one of his matches are shown (which we know they aren't) he's at about a 66% win rate. That's certainly good, but hardly amazing, and these are (ostensibly) against randoms teams picked by the mmr to face what should be one of the highest ranked killers (if again, we assume all the gameplay we've seen is both legit and complete)
2. Because the mmr system is hot garbage.
-
People already mentioned the perks. I'd also throw in slug em.
If you've got a sabo squad, they are likely to play overly altruistic as well, so you can get a lot of value over just letting someone crawl and smacking people who try to pick them up. How much value obviously depends on a lot of factors, but I think it's worth trying.
-
@LastShoe said:
It's kind of funny, when you see a boil over abusing meta survivors and 2 urban evading at the edge of the map while injured... against oni...
MMR is such hot garbage it's actually impressive how bad it is...
It's weird the playstyles that exist on both sides that are simply "for the lulz". I mean, I've never played a PvP game where you can find so many players who don't seem interested in winning at all, just annoying the other side.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797973#Comment_2797973
Oh, so we're back on the 'survivors just bad lol' train.
Killers are never bad, they're just UP tho.
I mean, some of those teams literally weren't running full builds (2-3 green perks, no/brown items with brown addons) it's difficult to imagine they are at the same skill level as a guy who literally plays because it's his job, and who specifically brought in the best full loadout he could get for each killer.
-
@Bartlaus said:
Average DBD player logic:
- streamer x did 4k with perk y ---> perk y OP ---> PLZ nerf!
- streamer x did 50 4k win streak on killer y ---> killer y OP ---> PLZ nerf!
- streamer x did 50 escapes in a row with Meg ---> Meg OP ---> PLZ nerf!
- streamer x told some crazy stuff ---> come to the dbd forums ---> share the streamer's truth with the community
- player x starts to play dbd and to gain own experiences ---> error occured ---> Pig OP ---> PLZ nerf!!!!!!111eleven
Wish I could upvote this more than once.
Seriously people have to stop using entertainers as a way to avoid thinking for themselves.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797275#Comment_2797275
Pretty much there. Drawing a comparison in your reply to me that had nothing to do with anything I have said.
That is the argument you stepped in on. I brought up DS vs NOED to illustrate the point of how the forums confer all autonomy to only the survivors.
Yes there is always some benefit, ideally all perks should offer at least a little benefit in the match, that's why you bring perks. That doesn't make it op.
That's a motte and bailey. You stated that NOED can be stopped before it activates, I point out how that doesn't keep it from having a hefty impact on the game.
This in contrast to DS, which has virtually no impact if you counterplay it.
1. Not quite haunted grounds. More like getting to borrow Billy's saw for a single hit. The biggest benefit of haunted grounds is the fear it creates.
How is that 'fear' a relevant benefit that NOED doesn't also offer? You're not scaring any survivors that you're not near when Haunted Grounds pops, but you are scaring survivors all over the map when you slug someone with NOED.
2. Literally any killer has the capacity to snowball against an uncoordinated or unskilled team. That's not unique to noed at all.
Yes, congrats. But NOED still reduces the requirement for such a play by more than half.
I would love to see the math backing that assertion up.
Sure.
Thanatophobia slows down repair speeds by, at max, 20%. Gens take 80 seconds to complete. 5 x 80 = 400. 20% of 400 is 80. Thanatophobia will buy you 80 seconds here.
Totems take 14 seconds to destroy. 5 x 14 = 70. NOED bought you 70 seconds here.
The difference is only 10 seconds, except Thanatophobia requires all survivors to be injured, all the time, while NOED doesn't even need to be equipped to potentially get this benefit. This is also not counting the time it takes for the survivors to actually find the totems. Any search time will likely push NOED over 70 seconds, and in a solo team, it could easily take even longer as survivors cannot coordinate with each other, making searches take longer and possibly costing search time after all five totems are already done anyway.
However removing all 5 does something that you can do to no other perk, completely stop it from activating.
No, it turns NOED from the strongest hex perk in the game into a very competitive slowdown perk. And that's assuming the killer actually does have NOED, because remember: You need to commit to that quintuple cleanse -before- NOED is declared, meaning NOED can fulfil this slowdown role -without being equipped at all-.
And on top of that, it is absolutely not unique in being the only perk that you can completely stop from activating. DS can easily never activate. Deliverance can easily never activate. Red Herring can easily offer no value. Flashbang can easily offer no value. Devour Hope can go down before it gets tokens. Ruin can go down before it regresses a single gen. Huntress' Lullaby can go down without gaining tokens, or it can simply fail to throw a survivor off.
NOED is basically the only perk you CAN'T stop from having an impact.
Which feeds into the main argument I was making: The forums have an attitude where, if the killer wins, the survivors just sucked, but if the survivors win, it's not because the killer sucked, it's because survivors are OP.
DS vs. NOED shows this. It's one of the most counterplayable perks being heralded as a part of why survivors are OP, versus the least counterplayable perk that survivors are often held fully responsible for if it fires.
Killer autonomy is entirely disregarded and their skill is not considered. The game is survivor sided because 'Look at tournament play!', but Otz consistently winning matches on a perkless build with a 30 second AFK timer at the start is met with 'you can't set that standard for killer players, that's way too high skill'.
1. Still trying to pretend any current match has 5 dull totems? And even with that there's still a 1/8th difference. When you look at the 2-3 that are actually likely, it's 28-32 seconds... Hardly a "hefty" impact. As far as time searching, you're going to count that for totems but not gens? Really? Both have a limited number of physical places they can spawn, and are usually pretty close to each other.
2. Killers have 4 perks, all of which can be seen by the survivors. I don't buy the argument that people always think the killer may have noed. Maybe in the first few seconds, but once you've seen gens blocked at the beginning of the match (CI) killed 2 lit totems (ruin, undying) and saw the killer head straight for a teammate after getting a hook (bbq) it's plain as day they don't have a 5th perk. (And that's just using the build I've been playing against pretty much consistently for the last few days)
3. Thats why it can be completely removed. If you think the killer has it, you have the option (in addition to dispelling as you would any hex) to remove it before the game starts. You can't do that with DS. As no matter what, you have to play around it to keep it from activating, and it's far more difficult to work out what perks each survivor has until they actually use it. (Not to mention just a bit harder to keep track of 16 perks than it is 4.)
4. As far as deliverance goes, the only way any killer is stopping that is through blind luck in hooking the survivor with it first, even though they have literally no way to tell who that is. Red Herring? Unable to be stopped. Sure, it may not work (if you mis-time it and hit it while the killer sees another survivor, or get one that's given up on gen defense entirely), but then, noed may pop and the killer unable to find a single survivor until the single totem it's on is snuffed. (Happened twice just last night in survivor matches I played, once against a trapper, the other against Freddy) Flashbang? Literally as good as your aim (assuming no lightborn, just as we've assumed you're trying to cleanse all dull totems without the perk specifically designed to help that endeavor) and there's no way Any killer can stop you from making grenades, outside of playing such great 7 point defense that you never get to touch a gen. I will grant that both hex perks you mentioned can in fact be found and removed before serious gain is given, but then since you have stated dispelling dulls is "hefty impact" I don't see how you claim dispelling lit totems (which literally takes longer per totem) isn't any impact at all. Like with time searching for gens, it seems the clock only moves when you say it does.
5. The us vs them nonsense you keep putting in? Not really addressing that. For some reason it seems you are really stuck on DS, which I have not seen a serious argument against as a perk since it was last reworked. (Are you sure you don't mean DH?) The "forum is just killer sided" arguments don't do you any favors either, as that's the same line of BS our most... Infamous forum members consistently play on to bait. Anyone trying to use a professional streamer playing against randoms to prove anything is just wrong. All it shows is that otz is playing Dbd. (We don't even know for sure they are all legit matches, he's an entertainer, not a pro gamer, and there's literally no oversight of any of his matches)
-
@Wraithmain319 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797607#Comment_2797607
To be fair I wasn't really thinking about that. On the other hand, people who would unplug their network cable would still get a penalty in a way. Because they would have to spend time booting up the network and game again.
The game will keep trying to ping, as long as you aren't leaving it out for too long, it's barely a blip. (Actually learned that the hard way, wife accidentally unplugged the router while she was organizing her desk and I was mid-match.) Once you plug it back in, it's about 30 seconds until you're back in.
-
I don't think you'll be banned for asking, but you won't get a reason. Honestly I kinda get it. They start telling reasons and every thread turns into "nu uh, you shouldn't have banned him/her, what they did wasn't that bad" just turns into a mess.
-
@Wraithmain319 said:
They should just code it so that you only get the penalty when you hit the leave match button. It's a simple fix that they just don't do for some reason.
Because people would get around it by unplugging the Network cable, ending the program or shutting down the system. That's the reason.
-
I don't want any of his kit nerfed.
But then I'm a console scrub, so I don't even play blight (m&k support please!) I just go against the pinball from hell, and honestly I find matches with him, rare as they are, refreshing.
-
You make this thread a lot. Aren't you sick of seeing the same responses you have 3-4 other times so far this year?
-
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797425#Comment_2797425
But can't it tell the difference between a disconnect and someone literally presssing "Leave Match"? It's a feature vs not a feature, so how is it recognized as the exact same thing? I don't know why they made it so complicated.
Yes, but for example if I pull the Ethernet cable out of my Xbox, it would see it as a disconnect, even though I intentionally acted to leave the match.
-
@realflashboss said:
People argue its killer sided only at low to mid MMR. Fair point.
Then they argue its not killer sided at high MMR.
The arguement here as always is 'well otz is a pro' (i.e. the highest MMR).
So which is it, either otz at probably one of the highest MMR is proving that killer is viable and strong, or people who think theyre high MMR actually arent as good or as high as they think.
Stats wise the game at all levels and overall has never been an average 50/50 kills vs escapes so its pretty hard to argue that the game isnt overall a killer sided game in most circumstances (i.e. against solo queues or duos etc). Which is what most games are.
Killer is super frustrating against really good 4 man teams and there are times you get absolutely obliterated, especially if you play remotely 'nice' but thats generally not even 50% of the games.
I find it 10x easier to level and rank up killer and kill 3 or 4 survivors in most matches than playing survivor as a solo, duo or 3 or 4 man and trying to get more than 2 of us to escape....
I get the frustration though, i love playing killer but its way more stressful than playing survivor.
Both sides are frustrating for different reasons.
To me it's the comparison between "best ball player on the block" and "plays in the NBA".
Also yeah, most people on both sides have no clue what their real skill level is
-
Just to point out. If the objective was hooks and not kills, we wouldn't call them killers 😉
-
@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797268#Comment_2797268
Played the match with 3 perks?
They could only bring No Ed and it would still a badly designed perk. That is why most good killers do not run it. It is not rewarding and it feels cheap.
That's the answer. Or if you want to go by the devs "noed rewards killers for bad survivor gameplay".
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797181#Comment_2797181
Their position is declared to the killer the moment they come off the hook! What are they supposed to do against that?
'They got caught', yeah, big ######### whoop when the killer knows their exact location. Who wouldn't be able to catch that?
'Don't run then!' But then how do I make distance from the killer? They still know where the survivor is if you don't leave tracks, because they know the survivor can't be far. All they need to do is sweep the area and just kill the survivor when they inevitably find them.
You are right on one thing ds was ment to be a tunneling perk. So, then why then do survivors who have it tend to use it in ways that encourage it insinstead.
Because outside of an aggressive use, the perk is dead weight in almost all cases. Is that your balancing metric? Should survivor perks just be blank slots?
That's the reason I say it rewards bad play because thanks to how long the timer is other than slugging and waiting for 30 seconds or so the killer has no real way to punish the bad play.
You're getting a free down. Quit whining. They wanna waste half a minute lying on the floor, helpless, that's to YOUR benefit. You have no right to just slam your face into that perk and demand that it bends for you. Survivor perks are supposed to help survivors, not killers. You argument here legitimately comes down to "I should be able to fully ignore this perk".
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2786988#Comment_2786988
It may take a bit of time, but frankly until the gates are opened time is on the survivors' side
That depends on the killer's performance. Put out enough pressure and time absolutely isn't on survivors' side.
Blight? Definitely going to make sure there's no dull by the time my team does the last gen.
Case in point. A good blight is definitely going to punish you for wasting time on five dulls on the off chance that he's carrying NOED. Remember: You're not guaranteed any return on investment for clearing 5, and if you miss one, you get even less.
Devour Hope at full strength is about as powerful, I would say, however the fact that it isn't just locked to after 5 gens are powered, and can be up for a large part of the match itself makes it far more powerful. Yet somehow even with 5 stacks survivors are still able to find the single lit totem to kill it, even through they would have less map knowledge by that time.
Devour Hope is not up for most of the game either, though, and it can be demolished with just one totem, before it becomes a problem, and there's a near guaranteed return on investment for doing so. It's much, much, MUCH easier to find one hex totem than to find all five dulls, especially in regards to the solo/swiffer dichotomy. You can easily clear a single hex by yourself. Doing five dulls by yourself is going to seriously set your team back, if you even succeed.
The cost is playing a perk short for most of the match, for a perk that may be prevented from even activating.
This is something that people need to realise too: The only way you don't get any value out of NOED is
A) It gets cleansed the moment it comes online
OR
B) The fifth gen is never completed.
If the fifth gen pops and NOED doesn't fire? You got about as much value as you could've gotten had all four survivors run No Mither into your Thanatophobia.
It is almost impossible to not get value out of NOED. The value will differ, sure, but you're going to get something out of it. If it doesn't fire, it slowed the survivors down about as much as a sixth gen would've. If it does fire, you get the movespeed boost. And if you get a hit on a healthy target before they cleanse it, you got the instadown.
At worst, it's a single exposed down (Haunted Grounds, anyone?), at best, it can turn a dead loss into a 4K.
NOED is a strong perk with unfair counterplay.
I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that I am out here bashing people for using DS
When did I say you did?
"But again, that is somehow always the survivors' fault, but killers aren't responsible when they faceplant their way into a DS proc."
Pretty much there. Drawing a comparison in your reply to me that had nothing to do with anything I have said.
Yes there is always some benefit, ideally all perks should offer at least a little benefit in the match, that's why you bring perks. That doesn't make it op.
"At worst, it's a single exposed down (Haunted Grounds, anyone?), at best, it can turn a dead loss into a 4K."
1. Not quite haunted grounds. More like getting to borrow Billy's saw for a single hit. The biggest benefit of haunted grounds is the fear it creates.
2. Literally any killer has the capacity to snowball against an uncoordinated or unskilled team. That's not unique to noed at all.
"If the fifth gen pops and NOED doesn't fire? You got about as much value as you could've gotten had all four survivors run No Mither into your Thanatophobia."
I would love to see the math backing that assertion up.
"It's much, much, MUCH easier to find one hex totem than to find all five dulls, especially in regards to the solo/swiffer dichotomy. You can easily clear a single hex by yourself. Doing five dulls by yourself is going to seriously set your team back, if you even succeed."
Indeed it is. However removing all 5 does something that you can do to no other perk, completely stop it from activating. Otherwise it's still a single totem to dispell, just like devour. Shouldn't it be much easier to dispell a perk than it is to keep it from activating at all? And let's be honest, with the boon meta, is there ever a match that has 5 dulls? Because in every game I've played as survivor since the release of the witch, it's been 2-3 booned totems per game, meaning that instead of the "much much harder task" of removing 5 totems to stop a perk from activating, you really only need to do 2-3 at most.
-
@Johnny_XMan said:
For me it’s simple.
I have nothing against the effect itself, but the design behind the completion of the survivor’s main objective giving the killer an advantage just sounds bad to me.
Like, shame on me for not doing totems, but what did they do exactly ? Aside from simply existing and breathing, that warranted them getting a buff and survivors getting a de-buff for completing their own objective. Seems silly.
They kept you off totems and played the match with 3 perks.
-
@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797004#Comment_2797004
How exactly does DS reward survivors for their mistakes when it punishes killers for tunneling??
It rewards them for losing the third chase with a stun.
-
@SimplyPixelated06 said:
I just thought it was interesting that it seems to be more killer sided players replying. But that's besides the point
Sure, If you define killer as "anyone who disagrees with you, or has a picture of either a killer or killer related perk".
I mean, you do get that there's not anything I had to sign agreeing to play killer when I decided to pick the coolest picture I could for my profile, right? (In fact, when I picked it I didn't know what the perk was, I just thought it looked cool)
As far as your suggestions
1. Free hook state just because they lost 3 chases? Let's forget for the moment that killer players are just as good at counting to 4 as they are 3, so this doesn't really change that, it literally just buffs survivors for no reason. Anyone who will tunnel a survivor for 3 hooks will still do it for 4.
2. Hook timer slowed while killer in range. No. This was tried before, it was abused so badly that they fixed it in between patches. (Which bhvr almost never does) be glad you were not playing that week, it wasn't fun for the killers and it was even less fun for the survivor hanging on the hook all game watching his teammates play "ring around the Rosie" instead of saving him from the hook, because they wanted to keep the safe zone.
3. Basekit BT. I really don't want this. I already see enough times where a teammate unhooks me mid-chase, this would make that 100x worse. BT is a fine perk for people who know the game. For newbies it just reinforces bad strategy.
4. Allow survivor to unhook themselves if killer is near. So if I hook a survivor at egc, he gets to immediately leave, or i have to give up my pressure? That's lose-lose.
-
@latigresa said:
Good teams cleanse NOED. The problem is that survivor perks get nerfed all the time. NOED is the 1 perk that survivors have complained about for years and the only change was making it into a hex. If NOED was a survivor perk, you would see it nerfed to only work if 5 totems are standing for 30 seconds until you get a down.
Both survivor and killer perks are nerfed and reworked frequently, that's how balancing works.
The fact that some forum members continue to make and remake the same noed thread every few days isn't really evidence of anything except perhaps that some people clearly have entirely too little to keep them occupied. As far as it being the 1 perk? BBQ, ruin, pop, Undying, and devour have all had complaints just this year. (And that's after the changes to undying)
I mean, I could make a thread each day complaining about any perk I want, that doesn't make me right, just insistent.
-
@dictep said:
Yesterday I played against a killer that made 0 hooks before EGC. Logically, he had noed, no other way he could play against 4.000 hours survs. At the end, 2 kills. A totally fine perk, yes
I mean, if your entire argument against is "hey this killer got some kills in end game" I'm not sure that's as convincing as you believe.
-
@drakolyr said:
Honestly, i just think it needs some tweaks.
For example:
- A big sound applies in the endgame when NOED is activated, without hit
- Or when the first hit strikes after endgame, then it activates and you see it. But the first hit isn't an instant down.
- For a Hex Totem, its instant rewarding with something huge. How about we get stacks like No Way Out or others?
That would be a lot better.
ALso why i dont like the perk, it rewards camping and slugging huge at the end. Which are just not fun and shouldnt be rewarded tbh.
The game itself promotes end game camping and slugging. Once there aren't any gens to patrol, there isn't a good reason to leave someone you've hooked. You know their team is coming, and you have no other objective to defend.
-
1. Professional Streamed matches are somewhere on the legitimacy scale between pro wrestling match and a carnival game.
2. If they were legit as shown, they would be showing a man who literally spends more time playing Dbd than most people do working, against randoms, some of which, going by the video, haven't even gotten their chosen characters far enough along to have unlocked all of their perk slots and l3 versions of the perks they are using (lot of greens, lot of missing spaces), which, if anything is just further evidence that the mmr is not functioning as well as it could be.
-
Were you injured? Did you run right to the closet before getting in? How close to you was he when you hopped in?
-
@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2794956#Comment_2794956
Arguably it's a better pop
Pops biggest weakness is killers that have bad mobility have to haul their behinds across the map to apply it, whereas Pain resonance is instant. Pop is stronger regression at the cost of having to drop what you're doing and go to a gen that might get done before you get there
ideally you use them both in conjunction - Pain resonance to buy you time to get to the gen and pop it afterwards.
Not to mention it pops on the gen that's closest to complete, so it tells you which one you need to watch. Pop is just whichever gen you choose, you could end up using it on a 35% gen when another is at 80