Archimedes5000
Archimedes5000
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The Pebble
This one is used by literally everyone.
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@fcc2014 said:
I think it is possible if perks were on a points system with a total of 20 points allowed per survivor and killer.
Meta perks would still count as 5 each, while less used would count as 4. To get 5 perks they would have to be considered not meta which would be determined by current usage.
HoLy #########, WHAT if we ranked perks based on their usage (%) and gave them value based on that?
You would have max points so you cant use all most used perks, you would have to throw in something less meta.
Wouldnt this completely solve meta perks problem?
Rankings would be updated every week, just like shrine. And maybe it would be based only on red / red + purple ranks so its more "skill based"
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1119078#Comment_1119078
You do not need to cleanse totems here. Even if the Killer runs NOED he will need to leave the hook in order to get a 3rd down. At which point he isn't camping and you could get an unhook.
3rd down maybe, I was talking about guaranteed 2k. You cant get an unhook against camper when you are all exposed.
And 2k for doing nothing is a big deal imo. Thats better than Nurse's killrate lmao. Not to mention that camper may black pip.
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@Wylesong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1119469#Comment_1119469
In most my games the survivors are to cowardly to heal a slugged survivor. I am not sure what lockers do in the case of DS. I am dumb sorry.
I guess adrenaline could let you get back up or even unbreakable so you make a point but I also think when it comes down to it NOED has a tiny, not much but a smaller unfair advantage. Yes with DS if the killer lets you stay down you can hope for one of those three things to happen like adrenaline or unbreakable and maybe a survivor will heal you. NOED however like you yourself said has no fair warning until its to late. There is also no real requirement other than just needing a dull totem that is so well hidden.
The only reason I could see DS for any use is when a killer is tunneling you BUT I also think there is many ways around that as well and that is why I do not use DS. I actually do not use really any second chance perks. My most common perks now are Small Game, Spine Chill, Inner Strength, and either Borrowed Time or Kindred. I know they are probably some of the worst picks but I like them and I only use BT to help a survivor if they are camped or tunneled. I like to give them a chance and let me get hooked.
In the end it is all very situational and I guess you are right maybe they could just all together take both perks out? It may be to hard to balance either one. I mean no matter what they do DS will always be what is it. I mean it is only a one time use and if you miss your screwed. If they weaken it anymore.....I guess they could limit the time limit to like 15 seconds but then why even use it. They could even make the bar smaller or invisible and make it a game of roulette. lol
Well that depends on skill of the surviviors, good surviviors or SWF will pick the guy up as soon as he finishes recovering. DS in a locker means you cant slug them, you can only do a locker grab and get DSed. Amazing.
I dont think it matters if they are EXACTLY the same. These perks work similiar, reward similiar plays, dont require any skill/effort to use, have annoying, partially counterable counterplay and both have a powerful effect that can turn the tide of the game. Both perks have can be countered, but you have to go out of your way because enemy MIGHT have that perk, and you have to play around it even if it its not in the game.
DS is used to counter tunneling, but is also abused by good surviviors who use it as 60s invicibility they can use to do gens. Not to mention that DS actually CAUSES MORE TUNNELING, because killer assumes that EVERYONE HAS DS and tunnels EVERY survivior to trigger their DS early. This is literally the best counter to DS.
I think 60 seconds on DS are fine, but there have to be conditions when DS is immmediately disabled when:
- You are the last survivior that is not dead/slugged/hooked
- Another DS got activated
- You started doing any action (except vaulting and self healing)
- You got caught in a Bear Trap
- 2 other people got downed (-30s from the timer per down)
- TO IMPROVE ANTI TUNNELING PART: timer is stopped while in a chase
As for NOED balance:
You can use NOED only on surviviors you have hooked at least once before it activated.
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@Wylesong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1094785#Comment_1094785
Last time I check to active DS you need to take a huge meathook to the back and then HOPE the killer picks you up. I could be wrong though. lol If the killer is the smart they just let you lay like a dumb slug.
I also agree with what you said about NOED. There should be at least some requirement beyond the simple just needing survivors to leave one dull totem. You pointed out how devour hope needs tokens yet there is little to nothing needed for NOED. I wish people would be honest and think about how often does every totem really get cleansed when they play. It is even worst in solo ques unless you make it your only job to try and find them all.
I think you are forgetting Lockers, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, other surviviors and the fact that the killer doesnt have 4 60 second timers in his head and doesnt always remember who has DS and who not in an important situation (example: bodyblocking hook in EGC). Not to mention that you can get multiple people running the same character with the same cosmetics.
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Camping is very easily countered. Just do gens. Unless he has NOED, you can genrush the ######### out of him.
Also, if you get grabbed all the time, then you must be very bad at the game, because grabs practically dont happen unless its Spirit or Hag
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Nah, its ok. Its DS+Unbreakable that needs to be changed. Actually, only DS needs a change.
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@Its_Vigo_Here said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117274#Comment_1117274
It won't matter if you're exposed because the killers camping anyway right? In your hypothetical scenario where this perk is overpowered The killer is camping and cannot protect the totem. Most people who use NOED don't try to protect it but rather try to stop people going for the gates so just don't go for the gates and look for NOED. The killer can typically down one or two people if their group together using this perk. So as a survivor all you need to do is just destroy the totem then use your full health to unhook. You might trade yeah but both people have borrowed time and/or DS so it shouldn't matter. You are only complaining about this perk in the sense of camping but when you camp with it's not good, and furthermore weaker than used correctly.
Camping takes less time than doing all gens and totems, so killer either gets one more survivior, or gets NOED and gets one/two more surviviors.
Also killer can camp a hook that is near a totem or a gen, slowing the ge even more, or even making it impossible to cleanse.
Once NOED is active you can easily get one down before it gets cleansed.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1119059#Comment_1119059
Because tit for tat. You can't complain about a killer sided second chance perk, yet ignore the multitude of the same on the other side.
The fact that survivors complain about NOED, when the very perk itself is the the hands of the survivors, shows how 'bad' said survivors are. It's the very reason why I think adding additional objectives for survivors to complete to ease gen times will cause a firestorm among the survivor playerbase. The one perk that gives that feel, and they can't even deal with it.
Don't want to deal with NOED? Cleanse totems. Don't cleanse totems? Find the lit at the endgame. Don't do that? Get punished. Honestly, I'll never understand players complaining about a perk they themselves dictate if it comes into play or not.
This isnt a thread "how to fix the game", its a thread about NOED. I think DS and NOED changes should be done together, because these perks are basically the same.
If someone uses the argument "but the other side has the same" every time, then neither side will ever get changed
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1119069#Comment_1119069
the fact that it even got to the NOED camp scenario is based on the survivors incapability of cleansing 5 dull totems though.
ive just had a guy facecamping with NOED. he lost 2 gens while trying to down the dude, 2 more while facecamping and the last one wasnt too hard to get due to the gens being spread out. we also did all 5 totems during the facecamp and before, so he got no NOED going.
ended up being a 3 man escape - and it really wasnt a hard task (was a Doc btw on the Rancid Abattoir).
also camping can be a good play, depending on the situation.
if i know there are multiple survivors around not working on gens, i will stay close to the hooked guy and waste their time.
if the survivors however arent completely braindead and just do gens, camping is a very bad strategy, as you will lose all your map pressure and multiple gens in the process.
also compared to Debour Hope, yes this perk is very fair. they both work very differently after all, as one activates midgame and therefore is lit from the start, forcing survivors to search one specific totem as quickly as possible while the other one activates very late into the trial and therefore forces survivors to locate and destroy all potential totems before they reach that stage of the trial or search for the actual totem once the stage is reached.
ive had multiple NOED killers in the last couple of days and i can tell you: majority of them eigther didnt ever get NOED to activate or i destroyed it after they got 1 down with it.
the only time i could somewhat understand NOED complaints was when i looped the killer for 3 gens straight and then got slapped with NOED in the end, as ive had no chance to search for the Dull Totems during the match and my team didnt do them. yet again, that wasnt the perk rewarding the killer for playing badly, that was the perk punishing me for my teams incapability of cleansing totems (which isnt necessarily fair, but hey - we're a team after all)
You basically just got lucky that the last totem/gen was not right next to the hook he was camping. Also the map was the cOrN, so the first chase and the one at the end were longer than normal.
Devour has only one totem and its ok, but it also requires TOKENS. NOED doesnt require any tokens at all. You cant camp and get Devour mid game just because surviviors didnt cleanse. Thats the difference I dont like.
Well of course NOED gets destroyed, all Hex perks end up like that most of the time. But that doesnt change the fact that NOED has the strongest cleansing protestion BUT ALSO doesnt require any effort from the killer to activate.
IMO, you should be able to use NOED only on surviviors you have hooked before it activated. This would solve camping problem but wouldnt affect the perk too much.
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@gatsby said:
The game shouldn't be balanced around Decisive anymore. The core hook mechanics should change to naturally be anti-tunnel.
My suggestion is that survivors re-hooked within a minute of being unhooked don't advance in sacrifice progress. So if someone was first hook and got tunneled, they'd still be first hook progress-wise if they got re-hooked within a minute
Time requirement will never work. It will force good killers to camp their hooks, and you would basically make DS basekit.
Tunneling should be discouraged and DS needs fixing, but its the timer that makes DS so bad, it just will not work.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118176#Comment_1118176
The time it takes to camp a Survivor to death is 120 seconds.
In that time Survivors can get over 4 gens done.
If Kindred and SWF is not in play then they must first take the time to check the hook. So lets just say they get 3 gens done, since the time that would be spent on the 4th gen is instead taken by the time it takes to gather information.
So once the first Survivor is dead there is now 2 gens left. If the Killer tries to camp an additional Survivor then the remaining Survivors have enough time to check the hook again, complete both gens and open both gates.
So that's enough time for the Survivors to force a 2k by just not being stupid. No long chases or expert hiding needed. Nor is SWF or Kindred required.
If the first Survivor found is in a SWF or has Kindred then a 30 second chase will guarantee the other 3 escape.
This is all before taking into account things like travel time and hiding. They play into both Survivors and the Killer, but moreso for the Killer due to the fact that he has to patrol while the Survivors don't need to spend much time not doing an objective of some kind.
So you would only expect a Killer that is camping to get more than a 2k if the Survivors screw up on their own. And if the Survivors DID screw up, then the Killer winning because of it is fine.
You forgot about totems. Just cleansing NOED is more than 80 seconds. Not to mention finding them. So in the end NOED camper will always have time to catch at least 1 more survivior, so its a guaranteed 2k.
I did more detailed math above
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@Mister_xD said:
what many dont understand is, that NOED does not reward bad plays, but actually punish bad plays.
had they been doing totems properly, there wouldnt be any NOED. the killer has no control over weather this perk activates or not, its 100% survivor reliant to ever activate.
so saying NOED would reward the killer for failing literally just ignores the fact that its the survivors fault they ever got hit by the perk and the killer has no control over it.
IF NOED was to reward bad gameplay, it would acivate no matter what without relying on a totem still standing.
Ever heard of NOED camping?
You literally cant genrush and cleanse NOED before the killer camps the guy.
And camping is not a good play, is it?
The point is that the perk is COMPLETELY survivior reliant. So no matter how bad the killer plays, it will not change the fact that NOED will activate if there is at least 1 totem remaining. Compare it with Devoir Hope and see of its fair or not
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115355#Comment_1115355
Same can be said for most Survivor sided second chance perks.
And what about it? Does it change anything for this discussion? No? Then why even bring it up?
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@CosmicParagon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118096#Comment_1118096
That "lore" is just a cop-out for BHVR's ######### pip system
I could rant about how the whole concept of this game is flawed, but thats not the point.
You just cant 1 hook everyone because its not fun for both sides. Its kind of like surviviors using DS to prevent tunneling force killer to tunnel to "eat DS early". Or how camping killers force surviviors to bring toolboxes, BT and to genrush.
Some tactics need to be discouraged by THE GAME ITSELF, otherwise the whole balance and the idea of this game will fall apart.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118109#Comment_1118109
Lol touched a nerve I see.
Takes someone losing a lot or not getting ######### done to have to do the math to prove themselves right. If someone is getting camped, and you die to noed it's on you.
Killers dont start the game in a chase. They have to find someone. Meaning work gets done before even THAT. Notice a camper? Do gens. Look for bones. It's not hard.
Also, defending hard camping? I'm not. I'm stating how if they do hard camp, you have options to use other than complain, or throw yourself at them.
However, camping, tunneling, 4 key escapes and 4 mori are all part of the game. I'll defend using in game mechanics as the player sees fit. Camping is a strategy. Wether you like it or not. It also has disadvantages.
I dont have to 'defend' points of fact, or useable tactics. Because I'm not trying to prove anything to you or anyone, and dont care about the judgements towards me based on how I play. 🤷♀️
I dont really understand what do you have against math or proving your point, so I will ignore it.
You know, it doesnt really matter if there is 30 second dofference between what I said and reality, the point is that these times are similiar, and this proves that NOED camping is AT LEAST HARD TO COUNTER.
Every time someone complains about hard camping, people say "just do gens fast". And wjen they complain about NOED, people say "just do bones". It turns out that you cant "just counter" NOED campers as easily as people say.
These things are part of the game, but can be nerfed or removed if they are not fun. And these thongs are not fun, so something has to be done about them.
NOED is almost fine, the thing that needs a nerf is NOED camping.
I think it can be easily done without affecting endgame builds or decent players, just make NOED only usable on people you have hooked before (just like ebony mori works now).
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118089#Comment_1118089
If you camp one person all game, and others die to noed, that's their fault.
Not doing gens or bones if a single camp ends the game.
First chase: 60-120s max
Camping: 120s max
Total: 240s MAX
Gens (walking to them): 30s min
Gens (3 people): 160s min
NOED (finding, and cleansing, 3 people): 80s min
Total: 250s MIN
So its almost impossible to do "gens and bones" in a time that is required to camp 1 person, even for a very efficient team.
And if there is even ONE better totem spawn, or god forbid, its under the camped hook, we have guaranteed 2-3 kills for the camper with NOED.
BTW, can you tell me why do you even defend hard camping? Its like defending 4 man key escapes with DS+Unbreakble or Ebony Mori tunneling afer 1st hook
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@CosmicParagon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115632#Comment_1115632
You are heavily overcomplicating the Killer's goal there buddy. The Killer's job is to KILL. The survivors try to escape, and we try to get their scrawny butts onto the meat hooks to feed the spider god. Until BHVR gives actual incentive to rank up, pips should not be a concern
No, the killers job is to PLEASE THE ENTITY. Thats all. So ending the game after 30 seconds is not ok. I know this sounds ridiculous, but killer is supposed to make the game last as long as possible, it would be perfect if they got 12 hooks, not 4 kills. And defending gens is required for that.
Im not saying that you should be letting surviviors go, the game itself should be designed in a way that encourages NOT tunneling and NOT camping and discourages tunneling and camping.
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@orangegoblin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115818#Comment_1115818
It doesn't take 80 seconds to cleanse a totem...
Editing because reasons...
If you are concerned about 80 seconds when the gens get done then thats on you for holding m1 and not interacting with literally anything else the entire game. Some killers never even see all the survivors, not their fault they needed to down that dweet that looped them for 3 gens to prove themselves, ######### can be hard man, y'all want the 1v1, no once asks about the 1v4. NoEd is here to stay, devs said it themselves.
5x16=80 seconds. And thats without finding them, just cleansing.
And yes, I am concerned about over 80 seconds, its a time required to do OVER 1 GEN, ALONE, WITHOUT TOOLBOX. So yes, it matters.
Devs also say that current lags are ok, hitboxes are fine, Deathslinger doesnt require precision, DS is an anti tunneling perk, Legion had a bug for a year and they just didnt fix it, its not a bug that Thrilling Tremors pauses gen regression, Ruin is a "insidious" late game Hex perk, etc. I dont think that everything Devs say is right.
I dont want to remove NOED. I want it to be FAIR.
And FAIR means that you cant do nothing all game/ camp 1 person all game and then get 1/2 more kills because NOED. NOED is literally DS for killers.
My idea for NOED rework is: NOED can be used only on surviviors you have hooked before.
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@DarkFox85 said:
I'll confess I didn't know the Wraith was black. I thought he was slavic and I'm not sure where I got that idea from.
Probably because of "Azarov" lol. I thought that too.
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@King_Steve_Forever33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/132599/proof-that-the-game-is-survivor-sided-as-hell
But arent the perks you mentioned for survivors a grind too?
Spine Chill and Premonition are unlocked by default on all surviviors, you just have to find them on bloodweb, and you can easily do this at lvl 20 or something.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
I don't feel like reading this. 🤷
The Devs are trying to balance the game for both sides. It doesn't come off that way sometimes but they are.
Edit: Ok, ok I'll read it.
First Line: "This won't talk about game balance, it won't talk about generator speed. But the actual ability for one to enjoy the game."
... This is blatantly false. They have talked about all of these things, multiple times. Just because they don't say what you want them too doesn't mean they aren't talking about it.
That's it. I'm out.
What? How did you reach that conclusion.
Please read the whole post (OR AT LEAST MORE THAN THE FIRST SENTENCE) before commenting. Because your comment makes no sense and has completely nothing to do with the posts subject.
SPOILER: post is not about game balance, its about accessibility options
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I think they do at least a bit. Some time ago there was a thread called "Legion QOL changes" with like 100 ways of fixing the Legion, and devs (Penaits) responded to it. So they are probably thinking about some Legion changes, they are just very careful, slow and sneaky about it.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117236#Comment_1117236
I'm not missing any point you said just 1 survivor needs to pick a survivor sided map. Like that would trump the killer playing their map. It wouldn't. You just want to moan about how the killer can't choose the map every time and you think they should and the reason for that is "because you want to". Even the justification of saying there are 5 survivor sided maps is crap. Why should it always be one sides decision on what map is played? It shouldn't be. You can't see that because you want to play a killer sided map every game because unless 4k is handed to you otherwise you'll scream and scream and scream until you get your way.
Killer mains always cry about how they want balance but what they actually want is everything to benefit them. They wouldn't accept actual balance in any shape or form.
No, you dont understand. Lets say that average player uses map offering in 10% of their games (just an example, exact numbers dont matter).
So, when I am playing survivior, there is 10% chance, that Killer will use map offering.
But, when Im playing killer, there is 21% chance that ANY of the surviviors will use map offering.
So, surviviors send killer to map of their choice more often than killer sends surviviors.
Now add the fact that there are more survivior sided maps than killer sided maps, so killers have no reason to use map offering, and we it turns out that the difference is even bigger.
Why should it always be one sides decision on what map is played? It shouldn't be.
Yeah, exactly. Map offerings should be removed and maps balanced so they are fair for both sides.
No, you are the one that assumes that Im a killer main just because I dont like map offerings. Its a fact that surviviors use them more often, thats why Im "killer sided" in this thread.
I play both killer and survivior, and Im sorry, but DEGENERATES LIKE people who use Coldwind Farm offering BELONG ON THE CROSS.
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1116467#Comment_1116467
All perks are crutches.
Name me one perk that isn't a crutch.
No Mither
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@chenais said:
I use mori offerings, but I hook the survivor twice beofre i murder him. Do you think using a mori offering like this is toxic? Would you have a problem going against a killer that use a mori on death hooks?
No, using it like this is fine. If we ever finally get Mori nerf, then that should be the only way to use them.
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@Its_Vigo_Here said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1113989#Comment_1113989
And just so you know this nerf that you suggest will only encourage killers to tunnel. Do you want tunnelers? Or would you prefer them to hit who ever they want to avoid one guy getting targeted... your only making it easier to make people who already took a beating to get further beaten.
They wouldnt get tunneled... Why? Because when you are unhooked, you are INJURED. So you can be 1shot anyway... So you will be able to use NOED only on people you have hooked EARLIER, so its not tunneling at all.
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@Its_Vigo_Here said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1113147#Comment_1113147
Actually it does not. Most survivors do not clense every totem, if NOED Pops up they typically just remove it shortly after it spawns. Mainly because you don't need to do every totem, just the one that spawns. If the killer is camping then destory NOED, save friend using full health *Unless its bubba* make sure to 99% a door before doing this and bring BT/DS and your good. Most survivors run BT or DS or Both so camping is really not a problem. There is easy counter play to this perk even in this hypethetical camp land that a lot of high rank killers do.
They often dont cleanse before it appeears, because there is no sign that NOED is in play. So you have ro cleanse every game to avoid NOED
But it doesnt make this perk weaker at all, Devour Hope spawns at the start of the game, so you can find it early, and then go and cleanse it as soon as it procs, or you notice that killer lets you unhook.
You cant do that with NOED. It spawns, and NOW you have to find it, while being Exposed.
BT and DS doesnt help at all, if you dont get unhooked, then you wont get tunneled... And BT is useless agains Bubba, even is they SOMEHOW menage to do unhook in the killers face. Also DS needs to be changed too, if I need to bring a broken perk to counter camping then something is wrong.
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@CountVampyr said:
It’s completely fair. I’m a level 16 killer. If I’m going to be matched with a lobby where half of the survivors are level 2 and 3 (which happened just now), and the other two are 8 and 15, I need to have something like this to even up the odds.
Thats why its not fair lol. You shouldnt be able to win against them. Well, you also shouldnt be matched with them in the first place, but matchmaking is broken.
So lution to that is fixing matchmaking, not giving you a perk that lets you win against people better than you.
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@MPUK said:
Map offerings are very easy to come across. Especially if you main one killer character. You get a ton of points every round because of BBQ. There would never be a shortage of maps that you favour.
It doesn't take 1 survivor to get a survivor sides map at all. If one survivor plays a map they have the same chance as you with your map. You seem to think it is fair that a killer should be able to constantly play the map they favour and survivor should be banned from ever choosing a map because it isn't fair????? That is what pushes you in my mind to be a killer main because you want everything to be on your terms.
Your killer, your map, your add ons etc survivor just has to take what they are given by the all powerful and "fair" killer player.
You are missing the point.
- Surviviors have 4 times higher chance of bringing map offering
- There are at least 5 survivior sided maps, but not even one killer sided. If we talk about specific killers, then maybe The Game, because its good on stealth killers.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115782#Comment_1115782
Only killers should have map offerings???? So half the maps would never be seen. Just endless indoor maps as most killers do better on those. What a great unbiased idea :-/
Killers in this game wont be happy until the only thing available to survivors on the bloodweb is no mither(although they would want the noise reduction nerfed) and green keys. Nothing else ever is allowed on the bloodweb. Meanwhile their bloodwebs are overflowing with moris, map offerings, add ons and perks.
If by "half of the maps" you mean cOrN, then I 100% agree, no one wants to see these maps.
Actually, just delete them, no need to touch map offerings.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Strongest killer with least amount of skill required. Just slap on instasaw and NOED and enjoy the ez 4k
Nobody uses NOED on billy lol
Maybe it was Bubba and you didnt notice?
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I think it shouldnt have unlimited range. Would nerf it to 56 meters or something
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115711#Comment_1115711
I have 28. And I have video of it :)
How brainded do you have to be to mend 7 ######### TIMES IN A ROW before realising that something has gone wrong lmao. And NONE of these 4 PEOPLE have realised that...
This isnt underestimating the Killer anymore, they were just playing Mending Simulator.
Or maybe they just knew that Legion cant down them anyway? Lol
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The idea is ok and seems balanced, but I think it could have very unexpected effects on the gameplay.
The problem is that it blocks the window PERMANENTLY, completely disabling the loop for the game and it could change the balance of the area completely. Example: blocking Shack window or god window loop.
I think it would be very interesting to have it in game and see what meta changes it would cause, but it might be either too strong or too weak depending on map layout, rng and other, unexpected factors, so it might turn out difficult to balance
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@cipherbay_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115664#Comment_1115664
Playing with NOED Is playing with 3 perks because it can be destroyed, same with Ruin, if RUin pops within the first minute of the game, guess what? you are out that perk because there is no passive ability. Do you see NOED become active while the gens are up? no.
Did you read ANYTHING out of what I wrote?
NOED can be cleansed, AND THATS THE POINT.
NOED takes over 80 seconds to cleanse, and this is a slowdown comparable to other slowdown perks.
So playing with NOED is not playing with 3 perks, because NOED gives you either:
- Over 80 seconds of gen slowdown
- Exposed and 4% haste in the endgame
- A bit less than 80 seconds of gen slowdown, AND Exposed and 4% haste in the endgame.
So it doesnt matter if surviviors will cleanse the NOED or not, you get value EITHER WAY.
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115664#Comment_1115664
This is a very long-winded way of saying, 'I don't want to spend 14 seconds on a Dull Totem I find throughout the match'.
Also you neglect to take into account that you aren't stationary and vulnerable to the Killer while Cleansing like you are when you do a generator. You're vulnerable for 14 seconds, which is hardly any time at all compared to a gen where you can be forced off of it continuously, and can regress in speed.
Well yes, the calculations here are done without taking regression into account, but also are done with Thanatophobia at FULL STACKS. Having it at full stacks all game is basically impossible, so we can say its comparable. Not to mention how much time you spend just FINDING totems. 80s is cleansing alone.
Actually it doesnt even matter, the point is "NOED PROVIDES SLOWDOW" so you CANT say that it does nothing until late game. It may not be the strongest slowdown perk there is, but its still something you cant ignore.
So, PLAYING WITH NOED IS NOT PLAYING WITH 3 PERKS
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@senki527 said:
what i noticed is, that almost only killer mains are lurking around in this forum. calling for survivor nerfs all the time. they dont need nerfs! i see plenty of killers getting 4k, cause they have skill. just adapt and l2p.
and don't write comments starting with "i'm a survivor main...." cause i know you are not a survivor main.
Then maybe you cant read, because I see a lot of threads about nerfing killer things too.
This forum is perfectly balanced, you see threads about mori nerfs and key nerfs, DS nerfs and NOED nerfs. About Clown and Legion buffs and about Autodidact, Babysitter and WGLF buffs. Threads aboit nerfing SWF and about buffing solo surviviors. We have it all, I always make sure to keep the balance myself.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/132446/this-forum-is-so-biased-towards-killers
The reason for that is simple. Most killer mains think ballanced gameplay is a 4K most of the time. In fact they probably get their 4Ks more often then not, but then once in a while they run into a swf team with better players on a bad map for killers aswell and they loose. After loosing the game, they come here and complain about how hard it is to be a killer, not thinking about that the last games were 3K and 4Ks all along.
And then there are those who are just bad. They want it more easy instead of getting better.
Killers are so entitled in this game, is completly ridicilous. Watch someone like Hexy or TrueTalent. All they do is complain how unfair it is, and how strong survivors are, while they get win after win after win. I could accept that, if they were any good, but they are not.
Survival rate is about 45% lmao
4k all the time or something
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115321#Comment_1115321
It... Doesn't tho. It rewards the Killer for playing the Early and Mid Game with essentially three perks for a powerful perk that he can only use 10% of the match.
And that assumes the survivors are too lazy to utilize the tools GIVEN TO THEM to cleanse Dull Totems and completely nullify the perk.
Omg, stop saying that playing with NOED is like playing with 3 perks, its just not true.
Gen time solo without toolbox is 5x80 = 400s
Cleansing 5 totems (ONLY CLEANSING NOT FINDING) is 80s, so basically its as if there were 6 gens instead of 5
Thanatophobia (AT FULL STACKS) gives you 16% gen slowdown. 400s/0.84≈476s
So NOED total time = 480 seconds
Thanatophobia max total time = 476 seconds
Thanatophobia is definitely a perk, and it gives you less game slowdown than NOED... And Thanatophobia doesnt give you instadowns at the end of the game...
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@Rezblaze said:
I've had this argument with several people before. But it just urks me because I see it all the time.
People claim that NoED rewards "bad plays" by the Killer because he fails to keep up with his objective of defending gens.
Except there's one small problem; that isn't the Killer's main objective. It's just his main obstacle.
The Killer's main objective is to hook and sacrifice Survivors. It rewards him the most points next to chases. Gens? They give you some pity points for kicking a Gen. No points for interrupting gen progress. No points for perks that reduce gen progress. In fact they rob you of your points sometimes.
The generators are an obstacle to the Killer's main objective, which the Killer has to keep in mind and address. Much like pallets, sabotaging, and so on. But that does not make it his primary objective. It doesn't matter if the survivor gets zero gens or all gens or if they are meters away from the exit; if the Killer sacrifices them, it's a win for him.
So why then, do people keep arguing that NoED rewards playing badly?
It's a perk that is only activated in the Late Game. You invest in a perk slot for a Late Game Perk (A hex perk at that!) which can be deactivated by survivors passively cleansing Dull Totems. The payoff is punishing that and getting a powerful perk that you premptively picked.
I don't understand this mentality. Late Game perks always reward the Killer for leaving himself vulnerable in the Early Game... Playing in the Late Game. Fire Up is a Late Game perk.
It's like these people have no concept of Early, Mid, or Late Game.
I think you got it wrong.
Objective of the killer is to hook every survivior as much as possible and THEN kill them. To do that you HAVE to defend gens, otherwise its impossible. If you get 12 hooks and you didnt defend gens, then:
a) matchmaking ######### up
b) game is too killer sided, so killer needs to be nerfed
Thats how this game is. You CAN get a 4k without defending gens, but you wont get more than 8 hooks.
So basically, defending gens is not really your objective, BUT it IS and should always be REQUIRED to archieve your objective.
So yes, camping 1 person while waiting for gens to be done and then getting 1/2 more hooks and 1/2 more kills because of NOED is a failure and not doing your objective at all.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1114176#Comment_1114176
Sorry, but genuine moonwalking was also exploiting the fact that the chase stops, if you loose line of sight on the survivors, even though it was harder, unless you mean moonwalking in the sense of going backwards at a tile to mindgame. About the chase mechanic, I agree with you that it tends to be buggy but I personally think it is not easy to fix, for example, how would you replace the condition of having line of sight on the survivor? Basing it simply on Terror radius or distance to the killer would probably not work that well with stealth killers. Idk, for me that seems rather complicated, maybe you have an idea?
Your ideas for Legion seem interesting, so maybe you are right and the problem isn't that he was implemented but how he was. But in the end it doesn't matter anyway, he won't go anywhere so we can only wait and see.
Well yeah, the chase stops, but you cant see the survivior. By moowalking I walking backwards and you cant track using Bloodhound or Predator like that. Its a fair tradeoff imo, you risk losing the track of the survivior, and they can use that to hide or quickly change directions. It kind of like you punish PWYF users, the moment they drop the chase, you change directions and stop running. Or how you counter the Spirit.
This is quite simple to fix. Just make the "chase detection area" a bit higher, so it detects the survivior even when looking down. You could still walk backwards while looking down, but its harder. If it was still an issue then you could reduce the speed of walking bavkwards by 5%, or tie the chase mechanic to direction of the movement instead of the camera.
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@ShadowRain said:
We all know how fast gens pop now so how about adding a way to slow down the game a bit by first going around and turning all the generators on around the map so the lights come on and only then you can start gen progress.
Thoughts?
Killer could just camp the gen closest to him, and surviviors wont be able to touch it...
Bad idea. Maybe if it was 4 gens instead of all. But even then, there is Corrupt Intervention.
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SWF is a problem. It doesnt matter how common "Death Squads" are, they exist and they have a huge advantage.
I agree that SWF cant be just removed, after all they form 50% of the playerbase.
Instead, we should buff solo surviviors, while slightly nerfing SWF and only add perks that cant be abused by SWF.
Advantages SWF have:
- (WITHOUT COMMS) Perk coordination. Even most casual SWF without comms knows what perks their teammates have. SOLUTION: allow solos to see other people's perks in lobby, forbid SWF from bringing multiple copies of the same perk (max 1 or max 2)
- (WITHOUT COMMS) Knowldge about experience, skill, playstyles etc. of their teammates. SOLUTION: fix matchmakimg. This way solos can be sure that their teammates have similiar skill level.
- (CASUAL) Knowledge about state of other surviviors. Even most casual SWF with comms relays SOME information. They know who is working on gens, they know who is going for unhook, they know who is being chased, they know how many totems got cleansed. SOLUTION: add small icons that show what action survivior is performing (doing gens, cleansing, healing, is being chased etc).
- (CASUAL) Even most casual SWF tell eachother if the killer is neraby them or not, do they hear TR or not, are they being camped or not, etc. SOLUTION: add an icon that show who is hearing TR who is not.
- (TRYHARD) Tryhard SWF squads abuse information they have and perks like OoO, Head On or DS to make coordinated plays. Most of this is unavoidable, but some issues can be solved. SOLUTION: change OoO so that survivior doesnt have absolute control over this perk, so it cant be abused. Change DS so it can be used only if you are being tunneled amd cant be abised, and so that there cant be multiple DSes active. Generally change all perks so that they cant be abused if you have more information than you are allowed to. Also, solution to point 1. would also help here.
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@batax90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115244#Comment_1115244
For this i will steal something i have seen early you should hook everyone at least 1 time before you can start using your mori thats the best idea i have seen so far for this
This could work Ivory, but I think it would be still to early for Ebony.
I know you dont see them that often, but getting to kill everyone after you hooked them just once is still extremely strong.
Honestly, if Ebony was completely removed from the game I wouldnt miss it lol. I only ever use them for challenges anyway. Instead, more perks that let you mori, like Devour or Rancor should be added.
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@Raven9 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115268#Comment_1115268
I know who should go home and I have read the subject but I am talking about the article I told you about.
No, you clearly didnt read anything, or you didnt understand what you have read at all. Read the post again, then read your comment and think if it makes any sense.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115234#Comment_1115234
But...what about when you manage to land 12 hits...
Lmao. This is the prime example why Legion is bad. 12 hits and the same cooldown as with 0 hits.
Well, if surviviors are dumb enough to mend while Legion is in frenzy, then you should be able to reach 0 second cooldown, because why not.
It would take 10 hits to reach 0 second cooldown, 8 hits with both cooldown addons. Seems fair to me.
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@batax90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115209#Comment_1115209
For your mori nerf why should i bring a mori if you are already on dead hook for me as a killer it will be faster to just hook you instead of seeing the 13 to 16 second animation
And what about it? Mori is an offering, why should it give you a huge advantage? Also its not useless, it still counters DS, Flip Flop, Breakout, Flashlight and Pallet saves and can be used even after you dropped the survivior multiple times and wouldnt be able to carry them to a hook.
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Legion should be very strong in a 4v1 situation (or rather 4v4 lol), but weak in 1v1. What devs failed to do all this time was just this. Old Legion could bully 1 survivior, so he got nerfed, new Legion is not a threat even if he catches all 4 surviviors.
Buff idea: Every hit that injures a survivior while in Feral Frenzy Moderately reduces Cooldown duration of Feral Frenzy
Numbers are up to discussion, but my idea is 0.4s per hit, so its 4/3.6/3.2/2.8/2.4 seconds cooldown as a reward for (0/1/2/3/4) hits while in Frenzy. With Cold Dirt and Julie's Mixtape (-0.8s), you can reach 1.6s cooldown
So this way Legion gets rewarded for getting hits on multiple people in Feral Frenzy, while he remains just as weak as he is now in 1v1 situation. Legion still has to chase someone normally to catch them, but if he Frenzied multiple people, he will give a smaller headstart to that one survivior.
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- Moris (so they can be used only after 2nd hook)
- Keys (so you cant leave your teammates behind)
- Decisive Strike (so it can be used only while being tunneled)
- NOED (so it cant be abused by campers, rest is fine)
- Object of Obsession (so it cant be abused by SWF)
- New Hangman's Trick (it should show aura only in the carrying radius, 56m)