Its_Vigo_Here
Its_Vigo_Here
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@TheeclumsyNinja said:
It is so demotivating to completely put play a killer then have them still be able to come out with kills they never earn.
With moris being so easy to get its a little stupid to be giving killers with 2000 hrs access to a get out of jail perk.
New killers i get, its tough out there for them.... but just disable it after 50-100 hrs with killer
Yo you raise a good point but you're being a bit of a dumbass. No Ed trades power throughout the entire game and gives it to you at the end of the game. You were able to outplay them because you were playing against a crippled killer. If you really outplayed them then you would have the time to destroy the bones before the killer is capable of camping someone to death. I do agree with you though Moris are kind of bullshit and definitely need to be changed.
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I think the biggest problem with the matchmaking is the fact that the game expects you to get 4Ks. depending on which killer you're playing, if you're playing lesion and you get 2Ks but you played very well you're going to get a pip at least. But if you're playing ghostface, even if you 4K that's not even guaranteed you're going to get a pip. Most killers just don't want to be penalized, or punished for playing well and as a result we now have to either get a 4K or just safety. If I play well I expect a pip or be safe in my position, but the higher rank you go to harder that becomes because the game is balanced around good killers getting 4Ks not 2Ks. I don't think it should stay like this.
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Howdy killer main and sometimes survivor I have to say this is absolutely deplorable behavior. This guy's a dick, killer should be trying to play the game, there's a little bit of a social contract between the killer and the survivor. The killer needs to Hunt the survivors or there is just no game. Honestly they should probably have a reward for being high rank, maybe a big bundle of blood points at the end of the season based on where you're at, maybe iridescent shards? Hell even a cosmetic would be nice if that's possible. All I know is this, we as a community should not defend AFKing in order to farm. That kills the game not only for the new players but also for the old ones who just can't play. It's not free BP because in the time it took you to do all those shens you could have gotten significantly more blood points! Escaping is not everything, and to some people ranked does matter... I hate how this game punishes people even if they've done nothing wrong. That's the ######### up thing to me!
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@Ravakahr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/137805/i-think-its-time-we-removed-the-struggle-phase
d/c should be 15 minutes.
Thats a bit harsh... I think if you do it 2 times in the same day it should be 15 minutes but sometimes people Disconnect due to ######### servers or general game crashing issues thats not their fault. Soooo punishing people for having hardware problems is kinda ######### especially since there is no reconnect button.
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@Ravakahr said:
Solution - keep struggle phase. Turn it into a mini game where theres a 4% chance you can unhook by random skill checks. Infact the hole bar should be like this.
That seems kinda terrible. I think if you ######### up a second time you should not be given a second chance you already had a second chance to pull yourself off the first time you got hooked.
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@XRuecian said:
If you remove the struggle phase so that people can't allow themselves to die, they will just DC instead, which is even worse. There isn't anything you can do to stop people from quitting a game, you can't force people to play. The best thing they can do is just keep making improvements to the game so that people don't want to quit/give up in the first place
If you DC you get a 5 minute timer that steadly increases every time you do it. We have mechanics in the game that detur people from DCing and eventually if you keep doing it you will be getting into much less games then people who don't DC. Thats a positive in my book!
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1168928#Comment_1168928
Dying is a natural thing in this game, surely it wouldn't be a big deal to just dump some BP on them from dying.
They have no problem giving Obsessions that, might as well give a lesser amount to regular Survivors.
I think that giving the obcession extra BP is also kinda stupid. I know the logic is "Well the obcession is being targeted the whole game because they are an obcession but in reality most perks that target the obcession have been removed due to it encouraging camping and tunneling. *Dying light* So giving people a bonus for being the obcession does not make sense anymore. I think survivors should have more oppertunity to get bp though since their output is rather low considering the amount of content now in the game.
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@XRuecian said:
If anything i think they should make the struggle phase more important, not remove it.
They should no longer allow you to pan your camera while struggling. You shouldn't have the opportunity to feed your teammates information while you are struggling against the entity. This would help reduce SWFs power and keep it (at least a tiny bit) more in line with the average players information sharing ability. If you want to share information to your teammates while hooked, you should be incentivized to use Kindred.
They could buff the BPs (maybe double the current amount) you gain from struggling, to help incentivize people to not give up and die early.
However, i don't disagree that they could do away with the button mashing method of struggling. They could feed you a randomized string of button inputs to follow instead. Like Up, Down, Up, Left, Left, Down, Up, Right, Up, Right, etc.
I think making it so people can't kill themselves on hooks sabotaging their team and the killer out of BP is still important but I do agree! Hell during the struggle phase making the screen blur up a little bit and limiting the camera motion could be a fair thing to do. That said I just think that the button mashing is a problem and a sore issue for me when it comes to inclusivity.
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@Boss said:
On the BP the Survivors would lose out on if we'd remove the button mashing...
Right now, Obsessions get free BP if they die as the Obsession.
If they'd make it so you get some BP when dying in any way, i really wouldn't mind.
Emphasis on "some BP", we don't want them to want to die immediately for a new BP reason.
Bruh... its less than a 1000 BP, sure they could do something to make ya earn that naturally through the game but breaking your damn wrists is not really a good trade off.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161968#Comment_1161968
So free equals:
- Perk space
- Needing to be at full HP to use
- Becoming injured and broken
Got it...
Yeah its a perk that saves valuable time and enables you to make great plays. Its effect is noticably powerful and its down side for being so impactful is that it should not be used to insta rez someone RIGHT Next to the killer. It promotes careful play and smart use as opposed to brain dead "Use it when you can" Getting the barrowed time effect would defeat the purpose of the down side and this would be a straight upgrade from botiny knowlage.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161974#Comment_1161974
You can make the “gate keeping” argument anywhere
does Playing with a controller gatekeep those missing a hand or fingers? Does Siege gatekeep against those who can’t hear callouts or other sounds?
it’s a very weak argument
Its not a weak argument when you consider that the mechanic is not required or fundamental to the game play, and alternative controllers do exist for people who can't use standard ones, in fact on of the top street fighter players uses a xbox controller with his mouth due to his disability. However mechanics that require people to spam buttons do actually make it impossible for some people to play the game and considering this is the only mechanic that makes you do that and is an mechanic that can be easily disabled... I mean why not?
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@BigTimeGamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161827#Comment_1161827
Punished for accepting defeat in a valid way
you are just being crybaby if you can’t accept that people may just wanna leave in a legitimate way
One. Don't insult me I am simply opening up a discussion.
Two. Some forms of suicide is valid, like letting someone get a hatch, or admitting that a game is taking too long and you don't see yourself surviving and don't care about the BP. I get that, however many people get into a game, get pissed that they went down quickly near the beginning of the match then suicide to get into a different game. Or they suicide so they can basically match dodge a killer. Both of these would be fine if your fellow survivors and the killer where not punished by you leaving the game so early.
My main reason for wanting the struggle phase removed is mostly due to how it gate keeps people out of the game, People with disabilities or bad joint problems cannot rapidly press buttons like that plus it damages controlers and keyboards. Plus if you misclick then you die anyway and honestly its just a bad mechanic.
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Bro... its a free instaheal. It already is easy perk with a perfect fitting trade off.
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161817#Comment_1161817
well I guess part of this plan is as well that you would not be able to make yourself die, so you can kobe in phase 1 but cant do anything in phase 2.
ofcourse that does not stop you from literally going afk so the kilelr cna just hook you again after you get unhooked but it will take longer and if the killer does not hook you, you are still forced to play sorta.
Its easy to clip and record people AFKing, Its easy to report people running into the killer, however a miss click is the same as a suicide and as a result cannot be reported. Yes people will always be toxic but making it harder for people to ruin games is a + In my book.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
Wah people are DCing
ok here’s a dc penalty system
Wah people are suiciding now
you all really are annoying with how much you complain, if you remove suicide, then they will just AFK
stop finding reasons to cry and endure
Bruh, If your griefing games you should not be playing the game, making it harder to grief and harder to screw people out of points is healthy. As a Killer I need to hit X amount of survivors, I need to do X amount of Hooks, and I need to do X amount of Chases, If you quit that means I could lose out of emblem or even derank on a game I win. If its hard for you to leave a match once you committed then I don't have to deal with that. If you can't suicide on hook, even if you AFK then people in the game can still get their altruism, you can still waste campers time, and your still doing something. Basically don't just say "Toxic people are toxic" and do nothing taking simple proactive steps to ensure a better play experince does nothing but help the game be better for everyone.
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@deollie said:
So, would you also wanna remove the 4% as well? And if you would wanna keep it, how would it work? Would the first hook stay the same and the second one you are just hanging there?
No, you still get basically 3 lives, you still get to try and do the 4% but if you try and do the 4% and go into the "Struggle Phase" instead of being forced to spam a button you just sit there and wait for rescue or wait the timer out.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
I can understand why people use the perks they do, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. I'm also going to question your motivation for using said perks when you fun a full instant-down kit, like Instasaw Billy or heavily use Tier III Myers, with Haunted and NoED.
Personally, I take pride in EARNING my kills, so yeah I don't run exposure perks. When I play Billy my saw downs are accidental, baits or punishing a REALLY stupid play. I only pop Tier III on Myers at strong loops, like the Killer's Shack. I have used Haunted Ground to protect old Ruin, but those downs didn't feel THAT good.
I personally prefer the thrill of the hunt and catching my prey more than mindless slaughter. I even slow down games by leave chases, slug and do nothing or kick a gen and go "patrolling" because I have Surveillance, because it is more fun that way. My Dash hits actually leave me more excited than anything in this game, because I have become the unseen predator.
As for your points, @Fibijean, I play a lot of stealth Claudette because I'm actually terrible in a chase, or at least I was. Stealth was a viable option for me that way. It just so happens that I could work on out-smarting a killer.
I feel like if you're bringing a bunch of insta-down perks and not bringing down things like tracking perks or gen regression perks, then you are earning your kill. Because you're going to lose the game unless if you have incredible game sense. Not to mention ever since the ruin Nerf there's no totems really worth cleansing. Why not punish people for not cleansing? It won't work in top rank games and there's plenty of counter play. So let people play in a newbie way and they'll be punished when they go higher.
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@Peanits said:
I don't think this would necessarily solve anything. Someone might just heal in there for points because it's safe. If they really wanted to taunt you, they could sit just outside the gate and teabag, then run when you get close. You'd have the same thing happen, just in a different place.
you know you actually might be enough a Dev, I apologize if that sounded insulting. but no one waits outside of the exit gate to teabag you, mostly out of fear of no one escapes death, however the reason why people don't go out of the exitgate to teabag is because they don't want to give you points, waiting outside of the exit gate runs the risk of you getting a sneaky attack off, and a lot of survivors like to run out of the exaggerate before you can hit them. Others like to sit there right at the gate so that you have to hit them twice wasting even more time. Regardless most people aren't going to risk leaving the exit. I've never once seen someone leave the exigate to tea bag and again I'm encroaching on 2,000 hours of killer.
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@Peanits said:
I don't think this would necessarily solve anything. Someone might just heal in there for points because it's safe. If they really wanted to taunt you, they could sit just outside the gate and teabag, then run when you get close. You'd have the same thing happen, just in a different place.
I played this game for over a thousand hours, yeah people do heal in the exit Gates because it is safe! However 99% of the time survivors will sit there and wait for you to go up to them so that they can teabag. It's incredibly unsportsmanlike and it's very disheartening. After playing a really hard game and trying your best you get people teabagging and pointing and holding to game hostage until you run up. They also get a extra chaser bonus for entering and exiting a Chase, but most of the time they just want to waste your time and make you walk to the exit gate. in most games if I know I lost I kind of just sit in the corner and wait for it to end because if they're going to waste my time I might as well waste theirs. I do think that's a problem, that I either have to get humiliated or hold the game up even longer. It's a exercise in spite and quite frankly it's terrible.
I'm glad that you commented though! It's nice to see a developer's perspective on how they believe the mechanics are being used. I know you're not a developer but I know you're close so cheers!
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117256#Comment_1117256
They often dont cleanse before it appeears, because there is no sign that NOED is in play. So you have ro cleanse every game to avoid NOED
But it doesnt make this perk weaker at all, Devour Hope spawns at the start of the game, so you can find it early, and then go and cleanse it as soon as it procs, or you notice that killer lets you unhook.
You cant do that with NOED. It spawns, and NOW you have to find it, while being Exposed.
BT and DS doesnt help at all, if you dont get unhooked, then you wont get tunneled... And BT is useless agains Bubba, even is they SOMEHOW menage to do unhook in the killers face. Also DS needs to be changed too, if I need to bring a broken perk to counter camping then something is wrong.
It won't matter if you're exposed because the killers camping anyway right? In your hypothetical scenario where this perk is overpowered The killer is camping and cannot protect the totem. Most people who use NOED don't try to protect it but rather try to stop people going for the gates so just don't go for the gates and look for NOED. The killer can typically down one or two people if their group together using this perk. So as a survivor all you need to do is just destroy the totem then use your full health to unhook. You might trade yeah but both people have borrowed time and/or DS so it shouldn't matter. You are only complaining about this perk in the sense of camping but when you camp with it's not good, and furthermore weaker than used correctly.
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@Ratatosk said:
I play killer off and on, going between killer and survivor pretty often, and every time I play killer I get a merciless 4k, and I also show TONS of mercy in every match. I really don't understand why so many people find killer to be so difficult. Then again, I play on PS4, and about 95% of all survivors are complete potatoes. But still, even in matches where I get 4 man SWF, and they're all good at looping and hiding, I get a merciless 4k, while also showing mercy. Am I just the best player ever, or is killer really not that hard? I think the latter.
Judging by the fact that you are saying you don't play it regularly shows me that you're probably not the highest rank? High rank killer and low rank killer are two completely different beasts.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1113919#Comment_1113919
No, I agree that effect of NOED is balanced, its just that it can be abused by campers and tunnelers. Objective of the killer is to kill, but he has to hook as many times as possible. Thats why camping and Moris make you depip.
So my idea to nerf NOED is simple, just make NOED only usable on surviviors you have hooked before (like Moris) It would force killer to not camp if he wants to use NOED. And it would not affect NOED as an endgame perk at all.
DS is broken. It does not activate only when the killer is tunneling or is too greedy, it triggers all the time. For example the person with DS can do gens right in front of you and you cant do anything about it, because they will just hide in a locker or have Unbreakable equipped. Not to even mention situations when there are multiple DSes active at the same time. DS should deactivate when you are not tunneled.
And just so you know this nerf that you suggest will only encourage killers to tunnel. Do you want tunnelers? Or would you prefer them to hit who ever they want to avoid one guy getting targeted... your only making it easier to make people who already took a beating to get further beaten.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1112889#Comment_1112889
There are people who camp just to ruin fun for others, just look in the forum and tou will find more than a few.
This nerf is not pointless or not needed, you meet campers/tunnelers quite often, you would know if you played survivior.
So again, this nerf I proposed would change NOTHING in high ranks, it would only make NOED campers possible to counter. So YOU lose nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why would you be against a change that doesnt affect you or anyone with IQ higher than a potato?
Again, using NOED is not playing without 4th perk, NOED gives you 80-120 seconds of GEN SLOWDOWN. This is comparable to Thanatophobia.
Actually it does not. Most survivors do not clense every totem, if NOED Pops up they typically just remove it shortly after it spawns. Mainly because you don't need to do every totem, just the one that spawns. If the killer is camping then destory NOED, save friend using full health *Unless its bubba* make sure to 99% a door before doing this and bring BT/DS and your good. Most survivors run BT or DS or Both so camping is really not a problem. There is easy counter play to this perk even in this hypethetical camp land that a lot of high rank killers do.
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You
@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109635#Comment_1109635
I agree, but the nerf I propose would not affect the perk verstility at all.
The game is not only rank 10 and higher and its not true anyway, high rank players often use camping to derank, while also ruining fun for other people. So its not viable in terms of ranking up, but is very annoying to face and hard to counter if the camper has NOED.
Borrowed time doesnt help, campers bring perks that counter it, while some killers (Bubba, Ghostface etc) are immune to BT altogether.
So the nerf would not affect the gameplay of normal players at all, it would only make countering hard campers easier.
You are lying, If you wanna De-rank you DC Or sit in the corner. Making people take longer to do gens is just a bad way to derank. This nerf is also pointless and not needed. I've already explained several times, playing the game with out a 4th perk is a big deal and if you played killer you'd know it.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109474#Comment_1109474
It doesnt matter that perk requires no effort to use IF its VERY WEAK. NOED (or DS) is certainly not very weak, thats why I target it and not other perks.
Well, my experiences are a bit different, I never camp like this myself, but it happens quite often that I see camping.
My rework idea (NOED can only be used on people you have hooked before, like moris) does not affect normal players AT ALL, it affects ONLY CAMPERS.
So it doesnt matter if camping is rare or not, campers get to ise NOED unfairly and shouldnt be able to. I think we can agree here, unless you are camping like that yourself, this change would not affect you in the slightlest, nor it would any killers that play the game and not just stand in front of their first hook.
NOED is a extremely weak perk because it does not lead to successful games that cause you to rank up. You don't see NOED Campers past like rank 10. Its punished, With borrowed time a survivor is rewarded for a unsafe hook rescue and actually can pip if the killer decides to tunnel the dude off hook because lets face it its kinda easy when they do it in your face. No effort applied, by your logic Borrowed Time is more deserving of a rework than NOED is right now.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1107351#Comment_1107351
I play killer more than survivior atm lol.
Chase never lasts more than 120 seconds because you drop it before that, because thats either a god loop or a survivior is just way better than you.
So catching a survivior and camping him to death is still 240 seconds while finishing all gens + totems is 280 seconds. So its guaranteed that killer will have time to chase 2nd person before gates are powered.
I just explainded that camping with NOED always works, doesnt matter if surviviors are doing gens or not, because as I said rushing gens amd doing totems takes more time than camping.
Using NOED by bad players to slowdown the game will just lead to the situation we had with ruin, NOED will get nerfed to ground for no reason. So its better to nerf it now so that only campers cant use it, instead of letting devs completely nerf NOED for everyone later.
DS is just as dumb perk as NOED and needs to be nerfed, BT is also strong, but unlike DS it can be countered by not tunneling and dodging bodyblocks, unless its 3 unhooks at a time or something. Self Care is the strongest game slowdown perk, you should be happy that surviviors brought it. Unbreakable counters slugging, which is an OPTIONAL tactic, unlike hooking (countered by DS) or doing gens (countered by NOED). Prove thyself is has a huge downside: all surviviors have ro be together. This is countered by multiple killer perks and playstyles, so its nowhere near op.
Dude, I never said that Self care is good I stated that it requires zero effort to pull off. The point of bringing up these perks is as follows. There are perks in this game that don't require effort to use and that is completely fine. I don't understand why you think we need to have a condition for these perks to activate and why your targeting NOED in specific here. Camping a entire team will lead to the Killer deranking and most killers don't exactly camp in this exaggerated way you described. If they do they ######### lose! What can't you get through your head here? Camping likes them denies them chaser and devout emblem which you would know if you ever played killer and thought about it for 5 damn seconds. Playing like the way you describe LOSES Them the game and typically resaults in a 2k at best which is not a measurement of winning. If hes not chasing either then the strongest loops and pallets would remain in the game that can easily stall the killer for minutes on end, your complaints are invalid at best.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1106563#Comment_1106563
No they arent. Not tunneling doesnt disable DS in ANY way, actually the best counter to DS is TUNNELING early to trigger it.
NOED pervents genrush, but AGAIN, it doesnt require ANY effort, planning, skill, tokens anything from the killer. You can camp one person all game and still get NOED.
Camping takes 120 seconds, finding and 1st chase takes max 120 seconds, so its max 240 seconds total.
Genrush with 3 people takes min 160 seconds
So genrush counters camping.
But what about NOED? Cleansing itself takes 80 seconds, and finding 5 totems with 3 people will take min 40 seconds.
160 + 80 + 40 = 280 seconds
So genrush does not counter camping if NOED is in play, camper will have more than enough time to catch another person.
So NOED even better camping tool than old Ruin was...
So how to balance NOED?
You could use NOED only on people you have hooked before.
That would stop NOED from being used by campers, but wouldnt affect normal players at all.
Bro, have you PLAYED killer before? Many chases last longer than 120 seconds and it can easily take longer than a minute to find a survivor, + If a survivor escapes a chase then you just wasted your time. Not to mention its 3 gens being completed or nearly completed after first chase which Is huge. Keep in mind by your own logic it takes thats 240 seconds per survivor. With it only taking 160 per gen that means before the second gen is completed the killer has effectively killed a single person and is in chase with a survivor with NOED. So the killer can down that survivor and put him on a hook. This gives you 240 seconds to find ruin, assuming one of you have borrowed time then finding NOED and using your fully healed health states to rescue dude number 2 out a door won't be a problem.
In this situation 3 survivors survive and the killer DEPIPS, shooting them lower in ranks.
This situation assumes no one uses their full health states to body block and save boyo one off the hook, and no one is using DS.
But lets say you actually get your asses off gens and do totems. By the time one person gets hooked and goes into teir 2 all the dull totems are done. You can easily body block and get your friend off hook and getting the gens done should not be too difficult at this point in time. Assuming hes downed a second person and decides to face camp the situation is the same you can body block save, or you can leave him on the hook and get roughly 3 gens done. By the time second person goes on the hook "Assuming its not the person who went in teir 2" You can get the last two gens done easily. Plus if your inclined a body block save might be clutchable for the end game and once again the match result will either be a 1-2 kill with massive points deducted for standing near the hook. So again killer de-pips and the majority of the survivors escape.
Camping does not work unless you let it work by not working as a team, its a 4v1 and if a killer plays like this its very easy to just out play them. Giving them free hooks by soloing a save when they are camping like that rewards their gameplay. Hovering near the hook rewards their play style, and finally you can easily deny the perk. Or use the fact that they are camping to find and destroy NOED instead of simply breaking all dull totems.
Why did people run Ruin instead of NOED Before? Its because Ruin was a better tool, and provided early game pressure. It was frustrating though because it made skill checks difficult even for skilled players let alone new players and because of that it had to be changed so that it was easier to understand so SWF's and randos would not screw eachother over by missing checks that should of been good to begin with.
NOED on the other hand is a little bit of end game pressure that can be easily denied, and further more is a poor tool to even add end game pressure. IT also is easier to understand that "KILLER MAN BAD IF HE ONE SHOTS PEOPLE" So new survivors know to avoid him or destory the totem. Again... dude your arguing for a change that does not need to be made
DS, Borrowed Time, Self Care, Unbreakable, Prove Thy Self are all survivor perks that require no real effort from the survivor to activate yet provide a great benefit to their gameplay style. I Don't think that needs to be changed, I think that its fine we have perks like this. "DS Can only be activated if you pallet stun the killer 4 times" "Borrowed time can only be activated if you healed another survivor fully" "Unbreakable can only be done unless you heal another survivor off the ground" Do you see the rabbit hole thinking like that goes? Jesus christ play something other than survivor and maybe you will see why none of this ######### your saying makes sense.
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1103153#Comment_1103153
Once again it's subjective. I think she's fun. There are people who enjoy playing against Spirit and Clown. And there's not much in this game that's equally fun to both sides in the first place so I don't see why you'd single out Plague like this other than she just had a buff announced.
I am focusing on the plague because buffing her power won't fix my problems with the killer it will just reduce the counter play survivors have to deal with her which only makes my problems with her kit even worse. Spirit was fun for the killer side but really she just needed more visual and audio cues so the survivor could have at least some counter play to some of her more frustrating strats. In my post I stated bluntly that "Behind the clown, I think the plague should be the next to be reworked" Clown can be fun to play and hes very fun to play against the problem is hes not viable in high ranked play due to his lack of map pressure and how ineffective his kit can be in speeding up chases. The plague can do high ranked play its just not very fun, The Clown Can't hence why he needs a rework more. I am just stating that the buff to plague will only make her problems more glaring and its why I made the thread to begin with.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1102729#Comment_1102729
It hasn’t been that way in a long while from my experience. People do cleanse eventually. Once one starts more do it too because then they’re thinking “well might as well if the others are giving her corrupt purge”
I take monitor & abuse and you can get extremely close. Combine it with blood echo to take away their dead hard clutch and you see them cleansing like never before.
Monitor lets you get so close. When you start hooking them over and over again eventually they will cleanse.
Just my experience. The squads that absolutely 100% refuse to heal I haven’t seen in a long time.
Right, in most low to mid ranked games where people don't know how to loop effectively they do Cleanse and further more killers who are low to mid rank typically can't effectively utulize the blood puke. However high ranked game play sees this killer either get rofle stomped or shows the killer stampeding through the game with the corrupted purge. This cycle is stomp or be stomped is not really... healthy. What I am saying is the strat for beating this killer is by not interact with the mechanic "Should I save my friend even though I am not sick? WELL YEAH Because I am gonna get gooped on anyway so ######### it" or "Should I work on this gen even though its gooped on due to other survivors working on it? WELL YEAH Because I am going to get gooped on anyway"
The best strat for fighting a killer should never be not interacting with the killers mechanics, and having a killer who just M1's better than other killers while very rarely getting a power boost ONLY IF Survivors let you have said power boost is not fun either. It's a lot of loops, its a lot of pallets and its just not really great when we could get a better more varied power instead that does interact with chases and does not feel frustrating to play against.
I am not saying shes bad as a killer, I am saying that shes not fun as a killer, and for a survivor its not fun either. The counter play is really just not there, you don't really have to use your brain its pretty much "Deny the power and get good at loops" because survivors get power over this killers power unless if they use addons. But even then if they use Addons that does not make me want to cleanse it just makes me annoyed that I have nothing that I can do against a killer who has now the most powerful ability in the game. I think survivors should actually wanna cleanse and I think this killer should have more options in her kit to deal with survivors other than a admittedly powerful periodic use power and M1ing.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1103379#Comment_1103379
Thats why both these perks should get balanced
They are balanced though, and these perks serve a function, one prevents tunneling and the other prevents gen rushing (Poorly mind you) I mean seriously its not hard to find totems and even if you wait to the end game its unlikely that the camping killer will hook the survivor next to the totem as well meaning you likely can destory the totem and save your friend in no time at all! DS is a perk that simply makes sure you don't get ######### over by a greedy team mate which lets face it, happens all the time. These perks should feel powerful, hex perks should feel even MORE powerful and the downside of having to wait till the end game + Having it be a hex perk which can be denied is more than enough to keep it balanced. Its not even used in high ranking matches that much which says to me its not that bad. In my own personal opinion I rarely get much use out of NOED and if your forced to camp to confirm a kill your likely not pipping anyway. It does not do anything but make it a little easier to deny survivors 5k of survival, which likely won't even result in a depip.
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If you camp in the beginning of the game and do nothing but camp you're going to get generator rushed. also if you camp someone you're losing emblem points and you're going to go down and rank. You're talking about an issue that is already being punished by separating them into lower cues. It's easily counterable, and yes if you don't do all five totems the killer gets a power that you can take away from them by cleansing a single totem. you don't have to cleanse all five before end game but you could also find it during the end game and get rid of it which is what usually happens if in 20 seconds of it being discovered. If you camp you're going to go down and rank, but no Ed is a perk that doesn't need to be changed.
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@ALostPuppy said:
Honestly Plague is fine. She doesn't have anything to help her at loops so if you know how to loop then you just have to play it as you would but safer. Don't sit on gens if you hear the heartbeat, always know where good windows and tiles are etc....basic stuff. That's all you need against Plague. I also don't mind being broken since I usually run dead hard, resilience and empathy/kindred so it works out in my favour more than it does for the Plague player. And she is fun to play imo, if she's not for you then that's fine, just know that your statement about the plague not being fun is subjective and not applicable to the entire community.
once again you're missing the point, it's not how powerful the plague is It's how annoying and unfundshe is to play and play against. Yes she has counter play, yes she isn't the best killer but she's also not the worst, the problem is is that it's just not fun to play against!
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@The_Bootie_Gorgon said:
NERF 🐽🐽🐽
I don't want a Nerf I want her changed
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1102474#Comment_1102474
If survivors don’t heal then Legion and Plague are both in the same boat - both M1 killers with no power.
The difference comes when survivors DO choose to heal.
Legion - Survivors hold M1 to heal. They hold M1 on gens. Legion can get hits so easily that if survivors want to heal they’re going to be doing nothing but holding M1 all game. Doesn’t help that a lot of Legions run Thana and Mangled add ons. This is why survivors d/c or give up on hook against him. He’s hands down the most boring killer in the game. Not to mention his power is brain dead, tap M2 and just follow the survivor until you get a hit. Then every other survivor in the area gets their location revealed.
Plague - 5 second heals. Removes the tedious aspect of healing. In return the killer becomes more dangerous with a new power. There’s an interesting gameplay loop there which isn’t present with Legion. Plague is far more interesting from a killer standpoint.
I’d say it extends to playing them as well personally. With Plague the vomit stream itself is a fun mechanic. It’s fun to use. If/When you get Corrupt’s also a lot of fun due to the sheer power of it and the fact that you go from an M1 killer to a projectile killer.
With Legion you just tap M2 and run after the survivor. They run, you run. They vault, you vault. Then you tap M1 to get the most braindead hit in the game and then dash onto the next survivor whose location is revealed for you. Legion just feels like auto-mode. The game might as well play itself for you.
Just my opinion but I think Plague is leagues ahead of Legion both to play as and against. If I play Legion for a daily many survivors will just give up on hook and I’m really not surprised.
You're comparing tomatoes to chicken. What I'm talking about is game feel, I am not talking about power. Or overall viability. The legion feels nicebecause he can vault windows and pallets and moves fast and can get that satisfying hidden even if it's not as good as the plague with her ability. what I'm saying is the optimal way to play against the plague is to not interact with the mechanic. Accept your fate and be injured the whole game. and people are not interacting with this mechanic so much that the devs are making it so that they have to at least get one corrupted Purge in.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1102257#Comment_1102257
The self roast is hilarious, although, I play Legion too... DARN!
Honestly I think legion is fun! I just feel like there are some problems with plagues core design. I think it can be done better and not feel so frustrating to play against
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@OrangeJack said:
Plague is fine
if you're not going to offer a reason I'm just going to say no she's not, change my mind.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Plague fixed all of the problems that still exist with Legion. Plague was rectifying the mistakes made with Legion.
Plague is fine imo and when I play her people tend to cleanse eventually.
These are fundamentally different killers that you're comparing. What made the legion fun what's the fast movement, it changes the way that you play! Plus he's all about getting first hits as opposed to only having to hit once. Not to mention his split pressure cannot be beat. Legion has problems but the plague does not fix any of them because they're different killers with different goals in mind.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
agreed with the other two plague is fine, she definitely needs a certain play style and perks to do well but what killer is at their best without perks.
You are misunderstanding the point of this post, I'm not saying she's overpowered or underpowered although personally I feel she's underpowered. I'm saying that her power and gameplay loop isn't fun to go up against because it limits the ways survivors can actually even play the game. And it pretty much prays upon ignorance of the mechanics for successful games. I'm a killer main first and foremost, but I find her power to be unsatisfying. The blood vomit lacks impact and it's way too short, plus you're putting your ability to use it into the survivor's hands. and the regular just running around trying to m1 people isn't great, personally I prefer an ability that would make chases quicker and make it easier to find people imagine being able to pop a pallet from a distance by vomiting on it, or forcing slow vaults by vomiting on them. I don't know what it should be all I know is that limiting gameplay options makes the game feel less varied and it's why a lot of me and my friends find it frustrating to go up against a plague and it's why I don't like playing as a plague.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don’t get this opinion popping up frequently at all.
I love Plague. Find her incredibly fun to play. Requires quite a bit of thought, and strategy, and I think she’s the most cleverly designed killer to date.
I guess I'll have to agree to disagree, I typically play in high ranks so maybe that affects my opinion but whenever I play her survivors never heal and I often find myself never using a power that I find to be unsatisfying to use. I think it's nifty but I feel like there's just so much more that can be done with this concept that isn't being tapped into right now leading to what I consider to be a unfunded player loop both for killer and survivor. She needs a buff in my opinion, but I think she needs a buff in terms of a rework not a simple tweak like they're doing now.
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@EntityDrudge said:
So basically, they added a unique killer to the game. And you can't just brain dead rinse and repeat actions to beat her. Her power and vomit is actually a deterrent to you working together, as intended. And you have a problem with that.
No, that is a misrepresentation of what I said. What I am saying is her ability rarely gets used and forces her to play pretty much m1 the whole game which is the most optimal way to play against her. As a survivor it's not fun to be unable to do actions such as work on gens or rescue teammates. Taking away gameplay options for the survivor does not lead to "deep gameplay" It leads to stagnant gameplay. I think that her ability could be reworked to be something that is fun for both people to use. I am a killer man first and foremost and that's my problem with the plague.
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@Aneurysm said:
I like playing as and against plague. I also find legion fun though, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to my opinions.
Well I think lesion is underpowered, I do think that is power and kit is actually fun to play against. I just find plague to be not really fun because it forces you to play the game in a basic way. You're either m1ing the whole game or you're getting a incredibly powerful ability that doesn't feel satisfying to use in my opinion. Or at the very least is done better another killers like the huntress. I just would like to see the power reworked so there's a bit more counter play. and the killer has more opportunities to use a power.
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@KrispiesChicken said:
I understand some people genuinely like the end game chat or pregame chat, but I think it's causi more toxicity than it's worth. Letting opponents in any multiplayer game communicate between one another ruins it a lot of the time for new people. I play PC and PlayStation and as killer on both I generally prefer PlayStation when I compare how fun it is afterwards or if I lose. PlayStation you get messages but very seldomly. PC you get hate a lot more often making you just not want to continue
Some people completely stop playing killer because of the end game chat, after they got stomped when trying to learn how to play or just faced a good team. Resulting in even less killers. The divide between killer and survivor won't change too much but I think this would be a step in the right direction
Maybe just having the option to turn it off would be better? It's a competitive game and that is a part of the atmosphere. Sure some people take it too far but that's why we report them. Honestly I think just stronger moderation tools even community driven ones would be a better option than simply removing the ability to have communication. Because I often use the endgame chat to give advice and explain why something does or does not work.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
i can see why you'd be concerned and i agree that this might make sabo saves a little too common but in the end it depends on how long it takes by default to sabo a hook. if it takes less than 5 seconds then i would definitely see this change as a problem. If it is at or above 5 seconds than it might be fair and could even encourage perks that never get used mainly mad grit, iron grasp, and agitation.
what i find interesting is that if they stop saboing a hook then it will reset their progress and since hitting a survivor forces them to stop working an any interaction than it could end up as a free hit. like i said it all depends on how long it takes to perform the action.
I suppose, I'm waiting for PTB to make my final judgment. All I know is that even losing one hook could mean the end of a game for a killer. And that needs to require skill coordination or a specific build to be able to pull off. That's why perks like DS only come like once in a blue moon. And now being able to give that to everybody? That's scary and I'm scared. But like I said I reserve judgment.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1096563#Comment_1096563
Ugh, what part of "ITS FINE THAT YOU HAVE TO CLEANSE 5 TOTEMS TO DESTROY NOED" do you not understand?
Again, my problem is that it does not require ANY effort from the killer, If you could use NOED only on people you have hooked before, it would be fine.
And no, playing with NOED is not like playing with 3 perks for the entire game, slowdown caused by "getting of gens and doing totems" is not something that can be ignored.
You're once again incorrect, it does require effort from the killer. You're asking the killer to play a entire game with only three perks. and on top of that there's even more risk because if all the totems are destroyed well guess what you don't get a fourth perk that whole game. This is a serious game changer, and it's also why no Ed is not a very good perk. You're trading early and mid game pressure and going in all hands on deck for maybe a single hit or two in the end game. Totems are easily found when lit, and if you rush through a game expect to get no ed.
And it is like playing the whole game without a fourth perk. when ruin was around it typically was only up for a minute, no Ed is the same way if someone realizes it's up they can easily destroy the totem by finding it, or making a build that helps you find totems. The killers work for no ad by not having a 4th perk most of the game. That's the trade off! would you prefer NoEd to just activate at the beginning of the game? Seriously dude quit complaining and just learn how to play the game. No Ed is a perk that punishes gen rushing, and it does so with plenty of hard counters seriously just one person running small game will ruin any effect no it has. So yeah, no Ed does require work, it requires you to play the majority of the game with only three perks. and that's because most survivors do not care if no ed is a thing, they'll either destroy it when it goes live after a hook is made or it won't be in the game at all. It's super easy to counter, and the killer has to take a serious disadvantage to even run it. I mean do you play killer? Have you? That's like for going dead hard or decisive strike in a a survivor loadout.
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@Mhiluumae said:
Devs said that camping and tunneling are not reportable and they will accept that strategy BUT what with survivors side?
Killers now camping and tunneling cause in their opinion that is answer for ruin changes and we can't counter them as well cause nothing is counter camping and tunnel.
- For killers devs changed Borrowed Time, now if killer just follow you, he hit you second time and you are down.
- For killers devs changed Decisive Strike so now they just tunnel, hit you and wait for your DS is gone. Still camping you.
- For killers devs changed Styptic Agent and Anti-Haemorrhagic Syringe so you can't quick react for tunnel or help someone to get up.
Only one Ruin devs changed for survivors side to make them better situation about skill checks and Killers just make a strategy what is just RUIN any survivor points. Even if you are altruistic and you want to help someone who is camped, you get punishment with minus points about not-safe unhook.
For me Devs just don't know what they want... They said that survivors role is helping each other, survivors should play together - but in game if you are not with 3 friends and you are just playing solo or with 1-2 friends your game will be terrible and you have really small chance to make a pip (forget about 2 pips). - please remember that I am talking about altruistic styleplay - of course you can make points when you play selfish, but Devs said that survivors shouldn't be selfish...
And I said that before you ask - no, I am not low rank survivor, I am long time 1 rank survivor who always was going back for random player, and always game was giving me points for that, now I am punished about that and I don't get it... I really don't get it, what is survivor role now? Leaving others and making points on that what you can? Gens, totems, chests, gates? Never risk for other player? This is not cooperation with survivors, this is a war, contest 'Who make more points quickly' so everybody just ######### on that one survivor who is hooked and they just rush gens, clean totems, looking for chests cause that giving them safe points without risk that they will be that one on hook... But where is that going? To campers and tunnelers as 1 rank killer mains and selfish bastards 1 rank survivors who never help you cause points are more important?... On high rank now is 70% to meet someone selfish, 20% to meet someone who just co-op with killer as a survivor to make points and he just giving killer information where are others and only 10% to meet someone who really play like a team. IT'S TERRIBLE! If this game is changing in that way... Sad...
You're mistaken, altruism while in the end does contribute to a win state. It in itself is just a means to an end. The Dev said in a live stream that it's every survivor for himself, and sometimes you have to do a little backstabbing to make it so you can win. If a killer is camping or tunneling then you punish that by doing gens, or bringing in meta perks like DS. if you punish a killer that does this then they will go down and ranks because the worst thing you can do with a camping killer is sitting near the hook because that means that they're not being punished. They're wasting your time and they're not losing any emblem because you're sitting near the hook. You can also bring kindred so that way you can see the killer if he's camping.
The way I see it is this, camping, tunneling, and slugging are okay. This is because survivors can teabag, loop, hold the game hostage in the end game. Are these things annoying? Yeah but it's how you win and if you don't care about winning then don't try to win and let your rank go down. You can't punish someone for playing the game the way they want to play the game. The same way you can't ban a survivor, for playing the game the way they want to play it. If that means teabagging and clicking flashlights then so be it. It's the nature of competitive experiences, people will try to cheese and the best the devs can do is to incentivize good gameplay which they do by punishing camping with a emblem penalty, and by basically guaranteeing the survivors will get three gens by the end of a single life maybe even more!
There you go those are your tools to counter camping and tunneling. You can kit out your build for it, you can accept it as a part of the game, or you could get better and go up and rank where camping will be significantly less present.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1096076#Comment_1096076
No, I just dont like that NOED has strongest peotection out of all Hexes AND requires no effort from the killer. If it required effort it would be perfectly fine for me. For example if you could NOED only people you have hooked before.
You do know that NoEd is a perk that makes you play with only 3 perks the ENTIRE GAME and can be denied or destroyed again by survivors. It's a perk YOU have control over. Get off the gen and do totems or get spanked simple as that.
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@Almo said:
The folks here who said camping is not bannable are speaking truth.
Someone should ban you for being toxic! Lol jk
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1095400#Comment_1095400
Yes, he can stand the whole match doong nothing an NOED will still activate. Thats the problem. You act as if hard camping doesnt exist, you can down 1 person (1-2 minutes) and then camp them to death (2 minutes). Its literally impossible for 3 normal surviviors to do 5 gens AND cleanse 5 dull totems in that time (3-4 minutes) This means that the killer (Billy, Spirit, Nurse, Bubba, Myers, Ghostface) will have more than enough time to down 1 more person before they finish the 5th gen. This means that there are are only 2 surviviors left and they cant "genrush the camper" because NOED, cant save the camped guy because camping, so they have to give up on the camped guy and go cleanse totems.
So basically, there are only 2 possibilities:
- Camper camps 1 guy, gets genrushed, gets NOED, has almost 100% chance of getting 1 more guy with NOED, then camps him to death. (Result: 2 kills)
- Camper camps 1 guy, doesnt get genrushed because surviviors are looking for totems, Camper camps 2nd guy, totems get finally cleansed, killer gets genrushed, NOED does not activate, Camper doesnt get any more kills. (Result: 2 kills)
So its 2 kills either way.
I am not against NOED being insidious or being anti genrush perk. The problem is that NOED is insidious AND requires no effort from the killer. If you could use NOED only on people you have hooked before, then it would stop campers from using NOED, but it would still be a good anti genrush perk, nothing would change here.
Please dont add some wierd ideology to my comments if you can. I play both killer and survivior, and I have issues with both survivior perks (eg: DS) and with killer perks (eg: NOED). So why I want NOED changed?
- As a Killer: I feel like NOED gives me many unfair kills (I used it as a crutch when I started playing killer) so I want it changed so that camper and bad players (like I was) can use it to het cheap, easy, undeserved kills. If NOED worked only on surviviors you have hooked before, then NOED would work only if surviviors werent cautiuos and tried to genrush me (like it should be).
- As a Survivior: again, I dont want to get 1 hooked by a camping, walking Nurse with NOED. Its just not fair. I can cleanse totems, but like I explained above, NOED + camping is GUARANTEED 2 kills.
- As a Survivior and Killer: I generally want the game to be balanced, without bullshit perks like DS and NOED. And balancing survivior is very hard because of SWF. So closing the gap between Solo and SWF surviviors would allow for more freedom in buffing or nerfing surviviors.
In this scenario a killer will not benefit, and will derank. I think instead of punishing bad play like we already are isn't going to change that, instead we should incentivize good play which we already do. All you need to do is just remove a totem, literally you are giving the killer power by ignoring them. If a killer hardcamps then they will likely lose a pip and you'll be less likely to see them.
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@Aztreonam78 said:
NOED activates only if the Killer at least first hooked all Survivors.
This should make Killers more interactable and prevent them from "1 camped, other NOEDed" tactic.
Personally I think NoEd should be a a standard part of kit on every killer. Like base. that way it will encourage survivors to remove all totems before the end game or be punished. This will slow the game down and punish people who get Gen's just a little too quickly. A secondary objective is exactly what this game needs.
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Trust me I'm a killer man too, it has less to do with what they're actually doing and to know that there are people out there who just want to ruin your day. It makes playing the game frustrating and in the end makes me want to just turn it off. As a community I think that's a problem, and one that needs to be addressed I'm not sure how but the more killers means some more games and maybe employing some simple sportsmanship would help the total health of the game.