Slurp_Ramen
Slurp_Ramen
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Well this is certainly a shock to read.
Maybe they’ll change their mind? I mean Bungie is just came out and said they weren’t done with destiny and were gonna start un-vaulting content like the red war.
Or maybe this is just the universe staying in balance, one door opens another closes.
Very disappointing end to the forums. -
BHVR and promises just never end well.
Knotted rope and Skull merchant being prime examples.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118283#Comment_4118283
But the problem is it doesn’t lower the ceiling in a fun or interesting way, it just incentivizes you to turn your brain off and run to yellow pre drop and pre run, without having to learn tile spawns, tile weights, and resource management(this is the big one as you can severely screw your team over) ; which are fundamental parts of the macro game for survivor to keep tabs on and learn.That's fine. We all have things we like and dislike. I barely ever used windows because I felt like all the yellow on the map was ugly and broke immersion.
but it does encourage a lack of thinking in the average player which over time will make you worse, because while everyone else is learning the game you’re falling behind and you don’t even know it.I may have to check my bias here though, because I’m a big believer in self improvement and just learning the deep systems and mechanics of games and overall strategy/knowledge as a whole, I get not every player is like that, nor wants the experience I’m looking for. So perhaps it’s not my place to be discussing such things. But this is where I’m coming from personally.Yes and no. There are certainly casual players who want to boot up the fun, silly slasher game and just play and aren't thinking about long term skill expression.
But its also what we consider skill expression. You mention tile layouts. I suspect there are lots of players who would consider memorizing tile layouts and window placement not to actually be skill expression, just a chore. Instead they view skill expression more in game sense and decision making (likely other possibilities as well) and WoO let's them focus on the meaningful parts of the game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118375#Comment_4118375
How would balance botany when you can stack 3 additional times across the team and still have room for 12 more perks STOP. How would balance sloppy butcher in comparison to killer addons/powers and other anti healing STOP.I'm stealing a line from someone, but 'game design isn't easy'.
However, they aren't in a vacuum. If we're just talking balance, the starting point is clear - is a certain game element (perk, map, killer, etc) over or under performing? If so, why might that be? Simple nerfs/buffs might be all that is needed, or you could have a deeper design problem.
Take botany - BHVR should have data on how strong it is if 1 person runs it, 2 people, 3 people, or 4 people. They could look to see how people do with it and if its a problem (they should also look to see if there is something its paired with that might be the issue, such as the Asian self-heal meta).
The issue becomes trickier if its a perk that does something some players find unenjoyable but others like (i.e. Ghoul), then you have trickier decisions.
couldn’t agree more. Well said
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almost 3 hours later, I think it’s over.
No more fast queues it was fun 😔
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118239#Comment_4118239
Putting Sprint Burst Vigil on the weak link isn't going to make the weak link more skilled. If they suck, they suck. If Sprint Burst Vigil made a weak link survivor win the match then it was absolutely a crutch.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F4HHDHXTV7BJ/what.png
Are we for real "If using perks help you win a match they're crutches"
reminds me of the good ol’ “noed is a crutch perk” days 😂
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@FerrousFacade said:
Anyway to wrap up, how would you solve the quad slowdown problem?
I would be fine with the other posters suggestion of an exhaustion style effect for them. However, I think if you truly want to move away from them and really change the meta the best course of action would be to delete from the game every perk/item/etc that effects gen times from both sides and add basekit regression of some form to hook events.
Since that is still going to leave tunneling as incredibly strong we should pool survivors first 8 hook states. No one can die until 8 hooks have been made but it doesn't matter which survivors are hooked, after that any hooked survivor dies. Anytime a survivor is hooked for the first time gen progress is stopped until survivors collectively repair for X charges, anytime a survivor is hooked for a second time apply the same effect but for a smaller set of charges. This gives a consistent bonus for hooking everyone twice but still allows you to hook the same player over and over again if you really want to, you would probably lose for doing so but at least the targeted survivor would get real opportunities to learn chase.
If compies don't like that and want to keep playing the way they do they can use the old system in customs.
And how would address certain perks while keeping in mind that survivors get 16 and killer get 4?
By delving into 16 vs 4 you are going against the stated intent of your title. You are comparing killer perks to survivor perks and claiming that the 16 survivors get across the whole team are comparable to the 4 the killer gets.
“By delving into 16 vs 4 you are going against the stated intent of your title. You are comparing killer perks to survivor perks and claiming that the 16 survivors get across the whole team are comparable to the 4 the killer gets.”
Apologies if I misled you. In your defense i phrased it poorly.
I wasn’t exactly comparing the number disparity between killer and survivor directly like you said that antithetical to my whole post. I was referring to the disparity within the roles themselves. How would balance botany when you can stack 3 additional times across the team and still have room for 12 more perks STOP. How would balance sloppy butcher in comparison to killer addons/powers and other anti healing STOP.
Looking back and reflecting I really wish I could phrase it better I can’t to seem to exactly describe how im thinking about it.
And like Dodoswarm mentioned killers do have their powers and addons to think about on top of perks.
And survivors have items. Which I didn’t really factor in when making my original post.
This also makes me think how cool a draft perk game mode could be with beefed up perks but no repeats between survivors, could be fun for build crafting, kinda like a more controlled chaos shuffle. -
@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118348#Comment_4118348
And 2 instant dc’d because I marked them with ghosty
If I wanted to surreptitiously add bots to matches this is how I would do it for at least some of them. A couple of bots that "DC" the first moment they have to interact with the killer. A couple others that act like bad players with a few real players thrown in the mix.
Otherwise I would guess a weird queue bug that will probably go away when you restart the game.
well I’m never restarting then because this is awesome.
Never played so many 2v8 killer games back to back like ever
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@not_Queef said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118329#Comment_4118329
Just the ones that cause a generator explosion and regression, like the ones you listed. Not perks like Ruin, Oppression, etc.
And not gen blocking perks either. I think those are mostly fine.
I see yeah I like that idea
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
BHVR creating new lobbies with all bots? 🤔
I mean they seemed like real people mmr jank aside, one even gave me snacks at the movie theater.
And 2 instant dc’d because I marked them with ghosty
Edit: 2 more games and both sub 3 minutes another with ghosty, I though maybe killer might play a role so I tried xeno and was also very quick
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118262#Comment_4118262
the killer role wins most of the games and go on winning streaks……but yeah underpowered
survivors streaks are a thing just not near as popular to watch.
Like as a spectator it’s not exactly riveting watching survivor gameplay even if the team is insanely cracked it’s far more interesting to watch killer gameplay.
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@not_Queef said:
how would you solve the quad slowdown problem?
A global cooldown on major regression events, similar to how Exhaustion was added to prevent stacking of Sprint Burst-style perks.
All regression perks trigger a status effect that lasts 60 seconds. During this time, no other regression perks can proc.
Of course, this would have to come at the same time as some robust anti-tunnel measures, because you can imagine the kind of tantrum that killer mains would have when they find out.
Some perks could even be buffed to compensate.
that could work with some refining.
Now how would this work, would it be applied to all regression perks flat, or just the one and done perks like pain res, pop, eruption, surge, clock etc etc
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@Thirteen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118284#Comment_4118284
It is true.
I would not call Singu weak by no means, but he is too matchup/map/rng dependent to be consistently rated A+ imo.
He can absolutely make you cry on Suffo 3 gen but at the same time a map like Lerys makes him relatively harmless.
Am I crazy for liking him on lerys? yeah all the windows are butt, but the long hallways corners make it easy to set up choke points, it feels like I’m playing fnaf sometimes.
the only times I can remember losing on lerys were to hatch escapes and those don’t particularly count. -
funny I haven’t seen that one before😅
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@crogers271 said:
I liked the title, but the argument is severely flawed.
You have to keep in mind thatkillers only get 4 perks(maybe half a perk with some specific add ons) andsurvivors, in total, get 16 perks.I can't believe this argument has stuck around as long as it has.
If gens took 180 seconds, the killer could play with 0 perks. If gens took 30 seconds the survivors could play with 0 perks. Just because both sides have something that is called the same thing ('perks') doesn't mean one having more is in anyway relevant. You have to compare all of the elements together of the game.
and it’s no surprise over the last few months we’ve seen bhvr steadily lower the power ceiling on survivor perks; because unlike killersurvivor can stack duplicate perks with no downsideOf course there's a downside. They are dedicating a perk slot to something that could serve as another purpose and/or exposing all of themselves to the same counter (going to focus on the former). If four survivors bring StB, and only 1 of them end up using it, that means 3 survivors have a wasted perk slot that could have done something else.
You can't ignore opportunity cost, counter risk, or wasted potential when discussing the idea of survivors having redundancy in the perks they bring. They are trading efficiency in something else to increase the chance they are ensured of having something (which, to be clear, as a gameplay element is absolutely fine)
Back to the top
As an example let’s take the recent side grade to Windows of opportunity, many people have made their feelings known about not liking the change simply because it isn’t an unhealthy perk on the surface and it’s one of the most popular survivor perks, and has been for years.
So people upset at the change go and say‘well what about the popular killer perks like pain res that should be nerfed too’and that’s where they lose me.Because if a person argues that the perk has been common for a long time, the reasoning being popular perks should be changed for the sake of change, people are right to ask why it doesn't apply to killer perks if the goal is to shake up the meta.
If people argue that WoO is handholding for survivors, and the reasoning is handholding is bad, people are right to ask why not just the perk changes but the devs words are boosting handholding for the killers.
If your argument is that WoO was overpowered/unhealthy, then you shouldn't fall into the trap of either the earlier two reasonings, and just explain why its bad. Its possible something could work for killer and not survivor (or the other way around), but you have to explain the reasoning why its only different/bad on one side, and 'power budgets', 'perk stacking', 'meta shakeup', 'handholding', are either all real bad reasonings and/or being very selectively applied.
I don’t like WoO because it lowers the skill ceiling of the game, it also lowers the skill floor, which I’m completely fine with as we shouldn’t be punishing new players even more.
But the problem is it doesn’t lower the ceiling in a fun or interesting way, it just incentivizes you to turn your brain off and run to yellow pre drop and pre run, without having to learn tile spawns, tile weights, and resource management(this is the big one as you can severely screw your team over) ; which are fundamental parts of the macro game for survivor to keep tabs on and learn.
I don’t think it’s overpowered nor do I think it’s overly unhealthy but it does encourage a lack of thinking in the average player which over time will make you worse, because while everyone else is learning the game you’re falling behind and you don’t even know it.
I may have to check my bias here though, because I’m a big believer in self improvement and just learning the deep systems and mechanics of games and overall strategy/knowledge as a whole, I get not every player is like that, nor wants the experience I’m looking for. So perhaps it’s not my place to be discussing such things. But this is where I’m coming from personally.
And on a note about pain res, I think it’s completely fine when not stacked with other regression perks. because it actually does encourage you think about the game on a deeper level, you have to actually get a down to even use it, you have to track which survivors you already use pain res on, whether or not you wanna use the pain res right now or bank it for later , take note on where you’re looping and if you can make it to a scourge hook in time before a gen pops. It’s definitely a far cry from its initial debut of essentially infinite stacks of uncounterable regression.
Perhaps im being too reductive when it comes to WoO and the brain power it takes to use it though.
When I think of healthy perks a few things come to mind: does it meaningfully change the way you play the game, does it encourage you to interact with the games systems in a different way, is the effect noticeable for 1 or both sides, bonus points if it encourages your opponent to play around it in a back and forth. And perhaps the most important thing is it fun which of course is purely subjective. -
@Elan said:
People playing only survivors don't realize how underpowered killer role is. That's fine. Once they fix remaining survivor problematic perks more people may return to the game, hopefully.
I mean, twins, singularity, judgement, Billy, blight, drac, vecna 2, nurse, ghoul, Jason, are all in the game the killer role as a whole is far from underpowered
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I hope bhvr elaborates on this sometime soon, and it doesn’t get lost if the sea of feedback from all the perk changes.
Updates to the abandon system were long overdue and more details would be nice.
But maybe then it’s at risk of people gaming the system? But people will do that anyway so I say the info the better -
@HolyDarky said:
Unfortunately, it's still in the PTB.
that sucks
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117849#Comment_4117849
Extremely strong effect for not that bad of downside
This isn't really giving me anything to work with.
'This is OP'
'Why?'
'Because it's really strong'
Like, I get that that's the part that you're saying, but no one is able to illustrate what's so far outside the boundaries of normal play. Like old heal-stacking going so high that you can heal survivors faster than the killer can injure them, that one I absolutely get, or direct comparisons between perks to show that one is just objectively better than another option, fine.
But StB is moving a hookstate around and everyone's parroting the word 'strong' without actually explaining why or how. I get that being able to pull someone off death hook without them immediately being at risk of getting killed is good, sure, but the value of hookstates fluctuates tremendously anyway.
If killers can get a kill in as little as three hooks, why is it a problem when survivors stack their perk loadout in order to make the first kill take more than three hooks?
It just feels like a repeat of the Distortion debacle where killers push the envelope on how much they can shortcut the game, and when survivors get something that resets the playing field, 'that's too strong'.
If you spread the first four hooks, StB is only going to help the killer. So why is that so strong?
it’s strong because the killer is weakest, conversely, the survivors are strongest when all 4 are alive. StB pushes this concept to the enth degree compared to similar perks that prevent a survivor death.
It also throws a wrench in the macro play of the game by removing most of the pressure you’ve built up trying to get that first survivor out of the game.
’just spread the first 4 hooks’ is a hell of lot easier said than done. Survivors can hide, the good chasers can make themselves known, a weak link may be present, different killers also play a role; on trapper or skull merchant I’m not gonna waste my time chasing someone outside of my web. There’s just too many factors at play that work against spreading the first 4 hooks (although this is getting better with perks like ravenous after the patch, or grim embrace), but for the average killer it’s not worth spreading hooks early game.
Even if you do spread hooks, if the best player on the team uses StB on someone him being on death hook won’t matter too much if the game is already over by the time you can secure the down, you could argue skill issue here which is fair.
Trying so hard to secure that first kill only for that pressure to be taken away can be a massive kick to the nuts.It harms the Marco and moral of the killer if you don’t play in a specific way or you have to go in expecting to play against it, that’s why it’s strong. Kinda like post rework dead hard where you just had to assume every survivor had it and hold off on the M1 because it was so good.
And can you remind me of “distortion debacle” so I know what we’re talking about? -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117606#Comment_4117606
anti-tunnel- is your only leg to stand on, I agree it could be better especially against the better killers but STB needed a slap on the wrist
Why?
I've seen a couple of people echo the same sentiment, but never explain what is so OP about STB.
Extremely strong effect for not that bad of downside, especially is the killer isn’t proxy camping. People already hate proxy camping/back to hook Barry’s and STB encourages it to be countered; because the broken is so long killers like wraith can finish up whatever they’re doing across the map without feeling rushed to run back to hook immediately, and can catch people at the tail end of their broken for an easy down.
And it’s value exponentially increased the more people who have it so the survivors can essentially control the flow because they can keep spreading hooks states out across the team keeping everyone out of harms way.
It now making you injured and broken is a way better effect across the board for every type of killer, and it not being able to be stacked solves it edge case problems of top end survivors stacking it. Now it’s more comparable to something like weaving spiders when it comes to a trade off perk.
Additionally now it can be used in combination with injured perks which has the potential to be fun, one off the top of my head is dead hard if you’ve been hooked and use STB you still have a safety net to fall back on if the killer finds you.My one big wish is to let you see other survivor perks in the lobby, because in solo queue if multiple people are running STB are running it only one gets to actually use it leaving however many people with wasted slots. So that’s pretty dumb.
It went from OP to balanced (as I mentioned in another comment before, it just looks like a super bad trash perk by comparison, the community has long since misunderstood what an actual balanced perk is because for some reason everyone [hyperbole] thinks not broken OP = trash), if it were to get buffed what would you change? I’d say decrease the broken now that vigil has been nerfed if it’s too long, or increase the available STB’s per trial to 2 instead of 1 so it’s not a dead perk slot for some people. -
@chipsbone said:
Current meta is camping, tunnelling, slugging.
Anti-tunnel was nerfed, camping and slugging were untouched.
How is this going to shake up the meta?
anti-tunnel- is your only leg to stand on, I agree it could be better especially against the better killers but STB needed a slap on the wrist
Camping- is only as good as the survivors let it; is only effective in end game for the average killer, or if the killer is running a meme build (basement bubba)
Slugging- situational, killer dependent, and lastly anti slug perks are super good right now.
Yes killers with still slug, tunnel, and camp but what do any of the perks in this patch have to do with those playstyles? (besides BT, STB, and insidious)
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@Hoopme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117557#Comment_4117557
I think the reason they gave if I remember correctly it's a core dbd aspect if they got rid of that it would dismantle dbd like the game would brick
spaghetti code strikes again
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@100PercentBPMain said:
perk shakeups are great. I enjoyed the big Attack on Titan update even though it wasn't perfect and some perks I despised (it gave us overbrine) but we got some nifty things like Calm Spirits silent bone tickling. For some baffling reason we gave Calm Spirit a restriction out of fear of a bird meta but we finally did away with that!
And again my feelings are the same as last time....some good some bad. But its progress. I just wish this one had a bit more meat to it rather than mostly bring tier 1 and 2 adjustments
Still don’t know why perk tiers are a thing, all they do is slow development time because they have make basically 3 perks in the code, and it adds unnecessary clutter and grind for new players which already have a ton of grind as is.
It not like perks are balanced around the first 2 tiers anyway, they should do away with them altogether.
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out of the whole patch this was the only change I had to a 2nd, 3rd and 4th take on.
Definitely a questionable change, I think bhvr burnt what they were cooking.
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I use it with autodidact and I actually don’t like the faster healing 😅 because it means less stacks, might just have to put the fries in the bag and stop running autodidact honestly; because free 50% healing on others is just super good on its own.
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@Hoopme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117541#Comment_4117541
Yeah I really didn't like how some perk buffs were just buffing the tier 1 and 2 versions only
I still don’t get why perk tiers are a thing, it makes balancing so much more difficult and adds unnecessary clutter and grind for newcomers
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117484#Comment_4117484
Most of the survivor changes are trash perks remaining trash perks, or currently useful perks becoming trash perks. I see nothing to get excited about as tunneling gets easier yet again and killers get multiple new strong perks. Chest searching, blessing totems, minor heal buffs. None of these shake up anything on the survivor side. You nerfed every useful survivor item and boon perk, remember?
Nerfing the Google Maps survivor perks (5 Steps, Windows) was long overdue.
Nerfing anti-tunnel perks (BT, Shoulder) is a huge slap in the face (again) after being strung along for years that the devs would address tunneling itself.
Nerfing the only decent aura reveal counter (Self Preservation) while buffing even more tracking perks for killers. As if aura spam hasn't already been massively powercrept in recent years. Really makes me want to come back to the game vs Judgement. /s
Removing unhook chances from Slippery Meat takes all the fun factor out of the perk. Yes we know it was only useful in luck builds. That was the point of the perk. Now its just trash.
Hex builds for killers getting hit like 5 different ways this update seems like overkill and I doubt they will see much use going forward.
Dissolution nerf will be nice vs a couple of braindead builds (Ghoul, Legion)
Outside of a slight nerf to DMS, none of the meta killer slowdowns were touched. Quad slowdown remains as strong as ever.
this kinda mindset is exactly why a shake up was needed, too long we’ve had to sit and fester is this state.
Everyone got use to either broken overpowered or useless, no inbetween, so when bhvr starts actually correcting the meta and making things balanced people start crying saying everything is bad when in reality it’s just by comparison it looks terrible because the power ceiling was so high.
If you’re gonna be stubborn and use the same 4-8 perks after this patch that’s on you don’t fault the game for that. Theres so many good perks now that making a unique a strong build isn’t hard with some creativity.Trust me when I say this is 100% better for the long term.
Yes the BT change is pretty dumb, and S tier sweats are still gonna run quadslow, but other than those 2 outliers this whole patch is a major improvement for longevity and perk variety especially at lower end, which is super important because dbds player retention is garbage.
Hex builds will definitely see use thanks to dominance and nothing but misery. Slippery meat went from a meme to actual good perk that can come in clutch in the end game or saving time mid game. Unrelenting is a huge boon to dredge who’s been needing help. Whispers is no longer stuck in 2016. Self preservation nerf is a buff to solo queue rats that don’t contribute to the team. Small game/calm spirit are now a very effective (most importantly free) at dealing with totems which new survivors struggled with. Roadlife is actually good now.
last but not least the biggest survivor buff by far being OW style comm wheel, it’s important can not be understated.
TLDR: If you think there’s nothing worth running other than quad slowdown, or second chance/exhaustion perks after this patch you’re unequivocally wrong.
Theres plenty to work with if you get creative. -
I mean they buffed all the universal perks so that’s something and some are very substantial for new players.
Its definitely an overreaction to say they're nuking beginner friendly perks because of 1 side grade (WoO) and one nerf (5MA). And now you can run both together for some actual synergy instead of just 5MA which was just better than WoO. The only reason to not use 5MA is if you didn’t have it yet.
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@bingbongboi90 said:
I dont know why OP is getting down voted for being positive.
They are good changes. Maybe could have given more buffs on the survivor side regarding invocations but none are bad changes.
You make a good point, would’ve loved to see treacherous crows on the list for changes.
I think something easy they could do is let you get both invocations up at once instead of one at a time, like boons, but I think treacherous crows is still far too weak, needs a rework or massive buffs for sure.
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I’m fine with them giving self preservation a slap on the wrist. It sucks to play with in solo queue encouraging rat plays, and hangs everyone else out to dry.
Good perk if everyone is running it, but has the potential to be detrimental if one person runs it and never takes a chase all game.Definitely a hard perk to get right in the current state of the game.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
As a rebecca main that mostly uses just her 3 perks most of the time, the Better than New buff if huge. Won't be able to pair hyperfocus or bardic inspiration with stakeout anymore either. But they can probably pair with the new This is not happening which doesnt require you to be injured anymore. And stakeout by itself is now gigabuffed and i always liked using it.
Aside from that they reworked a few into totem hunting perks. Like small game you just now see the aura of totems when you get close enough without any cooldown lol that is huge. And calm spirit now not only stops u from screaming but cleanses totems 10% faster instead of much slower
And then the chest perk to see where they are on the map now sees them all at all times, and opens chests much faster. Alot of big changes.
But one i am confused about is empathic connection where people can see your aura when they are injured and now you heal as fast as bottony knowledge (+50%) so is bottony knowledge now just for healing yourself (and others) faster? As it did not recieve a change.
I agree with not liking the empathic connection change but for a different reason. I use it with autodidact so teammates can find me if they need a top up so I don’t have to travel to them wasting time. Everytime they increase the healing speed it makes my build worse because I get less stacks if heals are completed too fast early game.
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IMG_2735.jpeg
kinda reminds me of Jim from TWD chapter
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113859#Comment_4113859
With your idea I dont see any reason to bring Vigil over Ghost Notes. I mean, both are not great and would not be considered for many Survivors (including myself), but I would rather have less Exhaustion Recovery and instead the scratchmarks disappearing a bit quicker.
Simply because Vigil for Exhaustion only does not matter. There are only rare instances where the Killer leaves a Chase and then you can recover Exhaustion. Aside from that, this will just not happen, since when you are downed (and hooked), your Exhaustion will be gone anyway.
well my thoughts are vigil would better for more team play since it still has the AoE and linger, freeing up more perk slots for teammates
And ghost notes is better for a more selfish (polite) build.
I agree ghost notes would be better personally, but I think offering the choice is important, it’s lame when perks are just straight upgrades of other perks cough cough 5 moves ahead.
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they should buff vigil to 40% only for exhaustion
And buff ghost notes to 15-25%
So now you get the option of, better exhaustion recovery and affects teammates in a range, or a slightly more aggressive stealth option with a slightly weaker solo exhaust recovery.And because of diminishing returns you dont run into the stacking problem.
Vigil now isn’t dead in a ditch and ghost notes can actually compete with it.
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I think it’s too early to tell, I think the wounds of the nerf are still too fresh so very few are using it, I’ve seen it personally less than 6 times.
But that being said, on the killer end it seems very manageable to deal with now, the games i saw it was on clown, judgement and houndmaster. On judgement it was pretty noticeable since they’re 4.4 and I didn’t lose distance much didn’t even when using power which felt really nice. Not once did I think ‘ugh sprint burst outplayed ig’ it was more ‘oh sprint burst ok noted’.
As for on the survivor end, I haven’t tested how it feels myself although I’m not exactly rushing at the opportunity; sprint burst has never been my exhaustion perk of choice and especially in recent years I’ve decided to cut it out of most of my build because it’s just too boring good, I would rather use more fun alternatives like smash hit, or just not use one altogether for more perk variety.
If the perk is completely dead after a few weeks we can discuss buffing it back up, either reducing its cooldown, or finding a middle ground at 2.5 secs of haste, or reworking the perk entirely to be a lower haste amount over a longer period. But yeah I’m definitely of the opinion of wait and see especially with the mmr reset muddying the waters. -
houndmaster has been broken since the ptb, if you accidentally spam redirect with snug you will M1 mid power use, slowing down all your momentum and putting you in m1 recovery.
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really wish we got more coverage and updated visuals for the blood to look fresh a sleek.
I think some of the best they’ve ever done is Kate or Adam for older survivors.
Some the og survivors look pretty good too in terms of blood coverage but suffer from outdated textures (like Claudette’s as an example).
One of my favorite newer prestige’s has been Lara’s as it kinda pays homage to the first game in the survivor trilogy where she falls into the blood pit after getting her gear taken, and correct me if I’m wrong but I think that’s where she was actually taken by the fog? Any way back on topic, I really don’t know they decide to go so light with the blood on some characters.
same can be said for killer cosmetics as well, but I think most of them have the edge in the weapons department because they have semi dynamic VFX with the blood dripping and veiny texture. -
I dislike the new ready button, way too big and red, and the new font/sizes of the names in the menu look not great, it looks like a mobile game where everything has to be stretched and big enough to being able to press and read on a tiny phone screen.
I don’t know what was wrong with the old one design. -
I feel like 10-12 secs of endurance, 10-15 of haste, 15-20 elusive, is more than fair for unhooked protections.
They probably just decided to put every effect at 10 for symmetry and less complexity, which is understandable but in this particular case I don’t think simpler is the way to go.
Yeah it might upset some OCD people but balance is more important.
Hell if they wanted to get really crazy they could try a dynamic unhook protection system where it varies depending on the game state, hook stages, and whether someone is dead or not. Like being strongest when someone is on death hook early in the match and being weakest if it’s endgame or if you spread hooks.
But that requires a hell of a lot more overhauling and testing. -
Balance devs? Absolutely should be playing/have an understanding of the game on a deep level.
If we’re talking other unrelated devs or higher ups that don’t actually change the gameplay? Its just asking for trouble and will likely accomplish nothing besides 10k hour comp players clowning on bhvr for being bad at the game.
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I would just love to see more killer specific options and toggles like with what they implemented with judgement.
Something like overwatch’s system where you can tweek your settings for each individual character, and some even have character specific option like changing certain button presses, to either be hold or tap and specific key bindings.
It’ll take a lot of work overhauling the menu and UI but someday I’d like to see specific settings for all killers
These next idea lean away from accessibility and more QoL, but for survivors id like to see more loadout slots, copy and pasting loadouts (or a loadout code system like seen in Pokemon champions could be fun but I don’t see the point), and shared offering pools (I like to items to be shared too but bhvr might not go for that), a random favorite option for cosmetics (for all the feng and sable players) this could be added to killers.Just some ideas I had.
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I think a place where they went right with something like this is killers like Vecna 2 and Jason.
Jason in particular stands out for me as he’s the first truly silent killer so they made most of his audio is horror esc stingers which all sound great and add flavor as none of his audio actually comes from Jason himself. So it’s super unique.
I think it’s particularly well done when playing as Jason, you almost get into a flow, and then the capstones being his mini moris and moris, which have his menu theme motif to tie it all together.
As always the sound design never fails to impress. -
@cammoking123 said:
This is a big reach. People have reasons for not playing those killers and it's not Vigil. People hate Clown because he's ugly. Seriously he looks repulsive. Even when they overtuned Clown's yellow bottles no one was playing him. Then there's just Freddy who BHVR has never been able to figure out. He's just a boring killer and his rework was a massive failure. Vigil ain't the reason people aren't playing these killers.
definitely a big reach from me. But I think you’re underestimating how much he was played and how much vigil’s buff affected him.
Will this change how people see him, absolutely not, just look at skull merchant she was shot in the head and people still dc’d against her in droves.
But it’s definitely a contributing factor that people are overlooking.
People enjoy different things, just look at someone like legion over years (I’m looking a bit further back here), legion has very simple boring design, they’re edgy teens with small knives; yet people were drawn to them because ‘haha feral frenzy go brrrr’ 🤤.
And then there’s other side of the coin with cool designed killers who are still unpopular even if they’re strong like an artist, krasue, singularity. Idk I feel we’re delving into subjective territory here, which is always risky business. I’m kinda yapping just to yap atp. -
as adept getter, and 2 time plat-er of the game this saddens me
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
In my case I was never concerned about vigil. I just remember when Freddy came out, and I really liked how he played back then even tho as a new survivor he was extremely hard to escape from. Since they changed him to the puddles/fake pallets I found him rather boring to play as even though I tried because of the big 3 (Freddy/Jason/Myers) Freddy was my favorite even tho it was just a reboot version.
Then after his rework, I liked his playstyle even less for some reason and have since used him maybe 2 entire times. Vigil changing wouldn't effect my interest in his playstyle.
And my first round since the dlc was against a legion lol, and everyine kept doubling up on gens even tho the killer would show up immediately if they did, which I knew legions usualy have that perk lol
at least it’s not 1.0 Freddy😅.
On some level I kinda agree, I loved the immobile snares on a conceptual level, it seems to me they traded out sauce for power, kinda like the myers rework
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@SpyUA said:
I am going to start playing Freddy now, knowing that my M2 is not useless (tho vigil hasn't got nerfed yet where it only removes 30% and makes it only affect exhaustion, it will be in a hotfix later)
I’m definitely gonna start play hinder merchant more, and nothing but misery has become a favorite for me on m1 killers like houndmaster.
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@Oputeev_Stas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111485#Comment_4111485
That's what I understood, it's just a giggle on Feng's baby skin, I guess I should try after a week then once you all up your mmr don't play against super sweaty survs and killers I'm kinda casual person, overall rn kinda mad at devs for endurance and vigil with sprint nerf - my main perks, too much listening to killers and streamers
don’t get too too mad, there’s plenty of viable alternatives, I’m sure vigil won’t stay nerfed for long due to it’s popularity.
Plus they still have that big perk balance patch in the pipeline.
this kinda thing is why I don’t like using the hard meta stuff because it’s always a sobering experience when they eventually get nerfed, if you use off meta things chances are they’ll get buffs and since you’ve been getting to learn these things on an intimate level, it gives you the biggest advantage. At least that’s my take on it. -
@Oputeev_Stas said:
I seriously don't understand why they're nerfing it to 30% and making it only 1 effect. Even in your screenshot, no one's even using Vigil. It would have been better to leave it at 40%, this perk has already been tossed around so many times. Why is Feng with the baby skin😁? Did the MMR reset really lump everyone together? By the way, your escape shouldn't justify nerfing this perk, it's clear the killer played poorly, and that's his problem alone.
yes the mmr reset everyone back to 0 to start from scratch, including the individual mmr for killers, so games are gonna be scuffed for a little bit while everyone gets back to where they were
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111471#Comment_4111471
yeah I just meant it wasn't Nerfed in the sense of what was being talked about on here all week yet. The hindered is what effects clown and freddy not the Exhaust recover
26% is still huge for them though
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@DodoSwarm said:
Vigil hasn't been nerfed yet so I don't think it matters who you saw after the judgement update. It will definitely see a few more people playing clown but ultimately clowns power still sucks, vigil being gutted won't change that. freddy is still pretty bad, Vigil being gutted won't change that. and you'll note Ghostface is also pretty bad but a lot of people play him in comparison because Scream is a beloved IP and ghostface has draw for that reason. Freddy is based off of the newer Nightmare on Elm Street remake and not the originals so he lacks the same level of a cult following and is canonically a child molester. his kit is mediocre at best, and The Clown is a non IP Obese Ugly guy that laughs way too much and has one of the worst powers in the game, ultimately those are going to influence how many people play them considerably more than a perk nerf.
vigil was nerfed
To 40%, the other nerf (the one that lowers it to 30% and only for exhaustion) is coming in a bug fix later
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/471434/is-knotted-rope-still-getting-a-rework
The devs later on had mentioned that the 2% is sufficient enough for a bonus. That they will not be adjusting it.
As a Houndmaster main - I personally disagree, which is why recently I did a addon on pass for her (Just addons) on the feedback side.that is incredibly unfortunate….
Whelp hope they reconsider someday.