How about those who are complaining finally start using anti-totem perks?
That's what they're there for
First Genregress, than camping, than tunneling, now Totems. What's next? DS DH Windows combos are boring and if time is such a big problem for you, why do you play at all?
IT IS WHAT IT IS..... change my mind
Comments
I've been using anti-totem perks all night. However, I'm not playing DBD to be the team's designated totem cleanser every single game. If every team suddenly needs at least one person doing totems all game in order to progress then there's a problem there. Don't care about changing your mind because I doubt you will.
based :)
I would not be opposed to a Hex meta, I just don't think the game is in an appropriate state for that yet and doubt BHVR really anticipated the impact the 4% increase for Thrill would have.
For starters, anti-Hex perks aren't great at dealing with the threat of Thrill. Knowing where totems are isn't the primary problem, and that's what most of those perks do. Getting benefits from cleansing totems (Overzealous, Inner Strength) also doesn't help. The problem with Thrill is that you often physically cannot cleanse totems as the killer is able to interrupt you before you are through, then also meaning any time you spent trying to cleanse is wasted as cleanse progress resets. Depending on the totem spawns you can perhaps at least cleanse some of them if you attack them simultaneously, but that is of course only realistically feasible for a coordinated SWF group. And even if you do manage to cleanse, none of the totem perks make up for the insane time investment on that, and good luck if the killer is using Pentimento (which could be countered by blessing totems, but blessing totems with Thrill in play is twice as impossible a proposition as cleansing them already is, and the Boon perks themselves also aren't all that great to begin with).
Counterforce is the only perk that appreciably increases cleansing speed, but a lot of people don't know how action speed works in this game. You may think Counterforce's 20% increase in cleansing speed will simply negate Thrill's extra 20% reduction in cleansing speed from this buff, but reductions in action speed will always weigh much heavier because as action speed approaches 0% (-100%) action time approaches infinity, whereas increasing action speed by 100% merely halves action time.
In numbers, this means when using Counterforce the first cleanse will still take 14 / (.3 * 1.2) = 38.9 seconds, still more than 10 seconds more than pre-buff, cleansing speed being increased by a mere effective 6% (from 30 to 36%).
I also think Devour, Blood Favour, Pentimento and maybe buffed Crowd Control are too strong in their current state for it to be sensible to be able to fortify them using Thrill, Undying, Dominance, let alone in combination with the various killer abilities/add-ons that can make it actually impossible to ever cleanse. And personally I really enjoy the "high risk; high reward" aspect of Hexes and would not want them to moderate their effects for a meta in which they can be protected much better, or are much more "cost effective" due to the time survivors spend on getting rid of them. I don't want them to be nerfed, so I'd rather they don't overbuff means of protecting them.
12% per totem instead of 14% would already be much more reasonable for Thrill. Or alternatively staying with 10% but also having a 5% increase in pallet breaking and vaulting speeds or reduction in hit and stun times for every token.
No risk? Just stop it. Thrill can be removed from the match permanently within the first couple minutes of the game and then the killer is down a perk slot for the rest of the match.
yep no hex no perkslot anymore. Its a high risk for killers and Hexperks must therefore be strong. They have to be. Otherwise the risk is not worth it
hex face darkness proc every 25sec making it nearly impossible to stop. Even if you manage to cleanse one of them it just getting penti. Trying to do the totems is a dummy mission so you basically need to let them have free reign with their hexes. It almost always devour with it of course.
That's literally the same argument some people used to defend old undying.
Except that hexes have not been high reward for years now. The only hex that is actually worth the risk is devour hope. And even that one takes some time to get going.
You know it doesn't work if no one is injured or if the damned survivor is hooked, all you need to do is stay in the chase for longer than 20 seconds without getting hit, loop and pre-drop, then other survivors will easily destroy totems
People keep saying survivors have 16 perks but I must be missing the feature in the game where I can select other survivor’s perks and dictate how they play a trial. Without some long, unrelated response that contradicts what you’ve said can you walk me through how I do that?
You must be really new to the game then.
Ruin is used more than it.
NOED is used more than it
Plaything is used more than it
Penti is strong…
Blood favor is strong…
You have a long way to go it seems.
"Survivors have many tools to counter the killer, which they do not want to use"
This is a very important point that should not be ignored. It's just like in real life: Make yourself as comfortable as possible, and if that doesn't work out, then complain, yep.
So I have 4 perk spots to counter camping, tunneling, slugging, bloodlust/chase, killer aura reads, slowdown, and now hexes. Given that 4 of those are base kit for killers, then that doesn't really leave room for much else.
How many perks do you think one survivor should be expected to run every match?
4 perk slots to counter tunneling, camping, slowdown, blindness, killers who are oppressive in chase and now an overbuffed Thrill of the Hunt?
That is impossible.
Survivors get 4 perks, not 16. They cannot control their teammates' perks, they can only choose their own build.
Well said, friend.
You posted a screen that doesnt really help your case.
The second "solo" screen shot the survivors points are so low, that it looks like chase never happened or a single heal.
It honestly looks like this person just afked all round, and then quit in your examples.
And really really…. The second screen seems sus as hell for "solo" when I see several "just so happened to have synergy" perks and copies that your teammates do. I realize overwolf isnt showing anyone in your discord but you could just turn that off. Or your original screen wasnt an swf and you were just talking to friends.
This whole thing seems manufactured.
That doesnt answer their question
How are you supposed to know as a solo what perks your teammates are bringing? The reason why people bring self sustaining perks while solo queuing is because its the most consistent way of getting value out of perks. You have no way of knowing if a teammate has Counterforce, have a challenge, or are just dont have their priorities straight. You have no way of knowing which is which.
Sure you can bring a totem build with this meta, but if some one else brings one then thats at least one person with a wasted perk slot(s), or even worst the killer doesnt even bring totems and now both Survivors have wasted perk slots.
literally you can just bring a mao and find totems that way . Counterforce speeds up the cleasing . Overzealous for insane gen speeds , detectives hunch if you want to . There so many ways to counter hex builds but folks are to used to the same perks they've been using for 5 + years now .
Console.
I'm not one to "flex" but i have been playing since hag release and have 4k hours in this game. Ruin is a horrible perk because base regression is a complete joke, NOED is not a "hex perk" so to speak, Plaything is not really that strong by itself, only with pentimento. Pentimento is hard countered by survivors who just literally pay attention to where hexes are cleansed (and since 99% of the time it is paired with plaything, just don't cleanse the plaything.)
Blood favor is a joke of a perk, you block pallets 32 meters away, but the speed boost the survivor gets from getting hit gives them plenty of distance to get away from the area.
When you look at perks, you need to look at them as "time" how much "time" does this perk buy me. Look at deadlock for example. Deadlock buys you 100 seconds per game of gen defense. In order to get 100 seconds of use out of ruin, it has to regress a single gen for 400 seconds. Obviously each gen it regresses lowers that time, but the reality is that it often isn't even worth the survivor's time to look for it to cleanse. Sure if you run across it spend the time to remove it, but it isn't worth even looking for anymore. Ruin will never give you 100 seconds of pure value that deadlock just GIVES you for free.
Nor can blood favor end a chase fast enough to warrant it.
The only one that can probably do it is pentimento, but you also have to factor in that in order to get pentimento to work, you need to take another hex perk that survivors cleanse, and then you have to go out of your way to go to that spot, and activate it. Likely spending around 15-20 seconds to set it up. And it lowers gen speeds by 30%. If you assume 1 survivor being chased and 2-3 survivors on a gen, it is adding 38 seconds per gen. Which means that survivors would have to ignore it completely and power through 3 full gens before it reaches the same value as deadlock here. Again, a perk that needs no work to get going.
Its not a gen rush though. In the solo screenshot one person has a toolbox and noone has ANY repair perks whatsoever.
There is no genrush there.
Again your screenshots arent reliable at all. And the response you gave basically doubles down that you are just making things up at this point.
In your "swf" screenshot you had one person with a toolbox and gen perks and none else.
So theres no gen rush happening in either of these. Its just terrible or non existent play by the killer.
Well you have been playing this wrong since that time if you think that or just not paying attention ?
Its hard to say in your case, thats a long time to be completely wrong when it comes to what perks are "worth the risk".
Saying "the only hex worth the risk is devour hope" knowing full well (well you should if you play this game as much as you say) that one of weskers/plagues most popular and powerful builds has plaything, ruin has been reworked for several months now which is why its being picked, and then you just ignore NOED I guess for … some reason.
Tells me you just dont know that much.
Blood favor is not worth the risk? Yea I mean you are free to believe that but perma blood favor on its own all game, you win. Theres not enough distance or pallets outside of gideon for survivors to do anything. And its probably not even that bad on gideon as everything is so close together.
I dont really want to engage if you think Penti isnt worth the risk. But
You need to branch out of whatever perks you are stuck in, as it seems you play a single way maybe and thats why you think the only "hex worth the risk" is devour hope.
Because with Killers like Pig, Cenobite or Onryo the amount of side things to do gets amplified. Imagine a Pig with Hexes: Thrill, Plaything and Face the Darkness, Pentimento. The match is now Totem simulator with trap searching.
I don't think it works that way. No perk or even combo should be so powerful that the opponent must run X to counter. Perks should help you but not game break.
This is the right way to think about it. Most perks are almost useless and are therefore almost never used. Now there's a reason for survivors to diversify their builds to deal with guarded hex totems. Behind these complaints, I suspect, is the desire to run a metabuild without consequences.
Those 2 screenshots are at least over 4 years old?
Again, its about time efficiency. None of them are ever going to give you time efficiency worth giving up a gen slowdown perk.
Seriously?
Old dead hard, old DS, brand new part, prove thyself, adrenaline, all nerfed since then at a minimum. Maps have gotten smaller, tile logic reworked to reduce it prevent chaining, pallets are weaker.
They have literally, intentionally, and expressly modified the game balance in the past even two years to make it harder to escape. They literally said so, and have published the stats to prove that they're being successful in doing so.
This is so biased it's obscene.
but that buff to throw pebble Eyy????? 😀
"What was that noise?"
46 seconds to cleanse first totem isnt healthy, sorry.
whatabout, just run x logics don't apply here because it's not even ambiguous. that stuff is broken and it's just funny how minor that 4% buff looked in the patchnotes when in reality it nearly doubled the impact of the perk.
14% is probably too much, 12% would be a good middleground to try i think.
i think they should just go to 10% and make this hex into reverse undying - regardless of what totem is broken, thrill of the hunt goes out last.
and then work from there and see if the 10% is good enough or not.
When I saw the MS paint edit and that his ‘data’ was nearly half a decade old I went ahead and added him to my ignore list. I usually go back and forth some for the lurkers who may read over the exchange but these days I just can’t be bothered. You won’t really get anywhere with people like that.
BUFF Counterforce!!!
My question is how do you only have 4k hours in 8 years of playing?
If cleansing a totem takes 46 seconds it's effectively impossible to cleanse in the absolute overwhelming majority of matches meaning all the remaining totems are zero risk, full value. A hex is not meant to stay in the match for the full duration - the risk part comes from how long you gonna be able to use it / if it stays long enough to be sufficiently valuable.
(and counterforce doesn't change that either; it doesn't actually make it less effectively impossible to cleanse that first totem.)
How about we buff antihex perks instead of nerfing hex perks into near useless niche turf again? Then we can have both strong hexes and strong counter to the hexes. Instead of nerfing anything that's an issue, buff the stuff that counters it. Then use it.
Serious, slightly unrelated question. Redacting survivor names makes sense even if it's a very ancient shot, but why redact the 'repairing' action text above the gen progress bar? Are you paranoid of people finding out what langauge you play the game in or something?
Still not a fair comparison since anti-hex perks would need to be brought into every match, even if the killer doesn't have a hex.
You'd also need to give anti-hex perks innate value outside of breaking hexes.
This is the process:
Killers come up with a build to actually kill which has counters if survivors tried a bit
Survivors feel aggravated if they need to do something other than rush gens and being able to finish the match fast, if they can mock the killer in the process, better
Killer perk gets nerfed along with 3 more killers that are c tier at best
The end
Literally nobody here even said that.
If Killers must deal with everything Survivors can throw at them, I see no reason Survivors shouldn't also be, fairly, expected to learn how to handle everything Killers can throw at them. And that means sometimes, you bring perks to counter things that may or may not give value, or you learn to play around the meta some other way.
Nobody is asking Survivors to "have the ability to counter everything" and the Killer quite frankly CANNOT bring all of those at once, don't be disingenuous here. Even as Survivor, you are going to get strings of losses because the Killer brought stuff you can't account for. You're not supposed to be ABLE to account for everything, nor is the Killer, literally nobody is supposed to be able to counter everything the other side can throw at them.
And all this forgets a simple fact: You are not supposed to be Superman as a Survivor and you are not supposed to win every game or even the majority of games as Survivor in a horror assym experience. The Devs have all but codified this at this point. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a very good horror experience, would it?
The sooner everyone who plays Survivor embraces this, learns to love it, and learns to play around it, the better. And to add to this, quite a few Killers need to learn that a 3-4k isn't the only goal, either - winning a lot gets real boring after a while.
Don't forget that the survivors also have map Items with certain offers to track down totems. This saves additional time
I can't argue with Firellius here because they won't change their minds, so I'll just add here the obvious elephant in the room:
Hex perks really are not that common, and if this build becomes a nw meta then Survivor perks will need to change to compensate. What's so wrong about adding a new Meta to learn to play around? Seriously, Survivors need more to do, and this adds it, so what is the actual problem?
I'm starting to think a lot of the Survivor side complaints around here are just "let me win, I want to win more" in disguise. As someone who plays both, I actually think Survivor's in a fine state right now and doesn't need any more.
Perks are not, or at least should not, be there as a way to counter playstyles. Perks are there to give advantages in certain areas, not be an absolutely necessity.
Take healing perks as an example. If the Killer brings a bunch of anti-healing perks and the survivors don't have healing perks, the survivors still have multiple options to play around it. Likewise a bunch of healing perks on the survivor side isn't going to automatically win them the game just because they are countering the killer's perks. That's healthy game design, perks give you an advantage, but they don't decide the match.
DbD is at its absolute worst when the game is decided in the loading screen. The worst offender of this was old 3 genning and Potential Energy. "Killer is 3 genning and survivors don't have potential energy, survivors lose" vs "Killer is 3 genning and and survivors do have potential energy, survivors win". It's awful design when the perk selection, which is at best an educated guess, is the ultimate determining factor of who wins and loses.
That's actually really true, this could help give maps a purpose as well as perks that show totems a purpose. Whaddya know! Killed two birds with one stone, BHVR did. Now we just have to see if Survivors will engage or just DC and give up on hook as a temper tantrum, regardless of if they tone the perk down or not.
Hint: They should tone it down a tic, it's just a bit strong.
I think more people are upset when this type of playstyle is used against solo-queue players, which most of this player base is.
46s for a totem to be cleansed and needing to use Counterforce (which makes the first totem 38s and with each totem goes down for four seconds per each totem that's cleansed).
That's a lot of downtime + killers get notified when you are actually cleansing said Hex totems. When you factor that in, you now have a survivor with Counterforce who either needs to sit on the totem for 38s or you have a player who sits there and just is the designated totem hunter trying to cleanse dulls to get the cumulative effect that Counterforce provides.
Regardless, this is a huge time sunk to make survivors focus on optional objectives to cleanse totems as Thrill of the Hunt is most commonly used with Devour Hope and other hexes - meaning in the best case scenario you have a killer running two hex perks causing this so called survivor to focus on dulls.
However the more hexes in a game makes the game more of a drag as many will use Hex: Undying, Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, Hex: Devour Hope, and whatever fourth perk you want to slap on to waste even more of the survivors' time — the perk is overtuned in my opinion and needs to be toned down.
I find it odd that this perk got compensation for the blood bonus removal, but none of the other perks such as Barbeque and Chili and Prove Thyself (it received a nerf lol). Hex: Thrill of the Hunt was fine the way it was before this buff, if anything a common ground can be reached to make the perk more fair to go against - if you want to keep the totem regressing speed, then remove the ability to see when survivors are attempting to cleanse a Hex.
They weren't… but if you giga buff one perk to make hex perks nearly uncleansable with the right combo or play style then the only downside to hexes is completely eliminated.
This is also really obvious in that every killer is at least trying out the new, broken thing and it's literally everywhere. This isn't "wow, ruin, haven't seen that in weeks", it's "oh look, undying proc. Better go get started cleaning devour for the next 30 minutes".
This is exactly the same problem we had with the 3 gen meta. It's puts a hard focus on the "environment" part of the game, and means that everyone is suddenly playing PvE for no good reason.
Killers will start defending totems like it's suddenly been their only job their whole lives and survivors have to deal with the frustration of having basically uncleansable hexes, which is not how these perks were designed.
And this is the same problem we had with 3 gen because the killer's focus is not on survivors anymore. With 3 gen it was, clearly, gens, and with thrill it's totems. This isn't a PvE game, and having one perk giga buffed to cause this whole thing means that change needs reverted quickly.
No one is saying anything about winning except in your mind. This is about "if survivors are designed to lose the game anyway, can it not be a frustrating, and completely hopeless fight over territory?"
i really need to be honest, problem with hexes are their spawns. Buffing Thrill in such a dirty way in order to force longer cleansing is not the way to fix this problem, it's just a bandaid that will rather make perks like Pentimento even more oppressive and infuriating to deal with
It's not a disingenuous thing to bring up, though. You can't wait and see and then adjust your build based on what kind of playstyle the killer brings, you have to bring all these counterperks -before- you can find out whether or not you actually need them.
Which means you pick up to four playstyles that you can counter and then just spin the wheel and hope you get something that fell within your budget, otherwise you get steamrolled.
Even if not every killer brings knock-out and goes on a slugging spree, you will still need to have an anti-slug perk in your build permanently if you want to avoid getting wrecked by that. Even if not every killer brings TotH chasing an uncleansable Devour/Ruin build, you will still need to have Counterforce in your build permanently if you want to avoid getting wrecked by that.
You can try and argue that that's just something survivors have to deal with, but the balance should adjust accordingly. If survivors can't be expected to bring all the counterperks all the time, then these tactics have to be balanced around the possibility that the counterperks are -not- present on the opposing team.
Especially given the variety of styles and options that killers have, producing way more strategies than survivors have room to counter. And though it would be good for the game to have more playstyles and variations, if band-aid perks are the chosen path, it would be really, really bad for balance.
Because DbD is not and should not be a counterpick game. Three things are guaranteed to happen in every trial: you will have teammates, you have to complete 5 gens at 90 charges each, and the killer will chase players. If you prepare for anything else, you're going to have a useless build half the time.
This is the equivalent of saying a survivor should run Slippery Meat because they might have to kobe on first hook. It's bad game design if RNG is strong enough that players have to build a loadout to counter it. This isn't a casual card game like Uno.