Ayodam
Ayodam
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Yes.
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@KatsuhxP said:
Exitgates are on top of each other: No they are not. you were just unlucky because it's random on most maps, or pretty much at oposite sides at maps where they are not random.
Killers move faster: No they don't. yes they changed tricksters speed ages ago, but that was it.
Powers got stronger: yes, because they didn't perform as wished for the devs. There's nothing wrong about buffing killers that are too weak.
- Crows: Yes they are, but good luck hitting both crows to injure. You need good prediction for that so it's deserved.
- Pinheads chains: they didn't get any longer as far as I know.
- Deathslinger: he doesn't even close cover a quater of the map, also he would lose a struggling survivor after around an quater of pulling on maxrange then lol xD
- Hooks: yes they spawns sometimes closer, sometimes there are just 3 hooks on the entire map it feels like, it's depending on the map xD
- Wiggling: You were never supposed to wiggle off on your own, it's just to give other people a chance of saving you, AND make it that the killer can't drag you to the basement from everywhere ^^
If your entire teams dies while trying to unhook you heavely missplayed, just do gens, the killer has to do something at some point. Also people apparently also don't like being slugged, the preassure has to come from somewhere, so choose what you like more xD
Just because you should be able to get out, it doesn't mean you have to. The killer just played good enough to win and that's it.
Survivors don't get bots from the start. Survivors that leave are replaced for a bot, but that's the only way to get a bot in your lobby currently.
At least half of the things said in this post are simply wrong.
Gates: map reworks are shrinking maps, that does push gates closer together. Beyond that, I’ve noticed peculiar spawn logic with exit gates in otherwise untouched maps as well.
Killers are faster. They get bloodlust faster, complete their wipe animation faster, and survivors lose distance after a hit making them slower and killers faster.
Weaker killers should be improved for sure but every killer—every single one of them—has a kill rate above 50%. That means every single killer on the roster is killing more survivors than they’re losing to.
BHVR has stated they will be placing bots in special game mode lobbies to alleviate long queue times. My suspicion is that if long queue times affect other queues (including normal), bots will be used. There’s no reason why they wouldn’t do that. Could be blind trials happening with it now. You dunno, you aren’t a developer for DBD, and blind trials aren’t usually announced until much later.
The one point you’re right on is the survivor’s fumbling a save.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It has been ridiculous over the last couple weeks. I'm probably at 10% escape rate in that period. I don't understand why the developers think this is acceptable. It's matchmaking. It's 1000% the matchmaking. You are not entitled to a player's time and money. This is a PVP game. Treat it like one and respect your playerbase's time.
Edgar the system can only pull from what is available. If you don’t have enough skilled players queueing up as survivor then the matchmaking has to work with what it’s got. BHVR needs to find a way to get more people interested in the survivor role so the skill range changes.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878512#Comment_3878512
Killers have so many strategies that are considered unhealthily. Survivors should be allowed to have at least one strategy that is considered unhealthy.
Are you being funny?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878456#Comment_3878456
Making Wake Up +12.5% if only 1 survivor is fine, but 50% if 2 or more survivors are alive, is buffing a team-oriented perk.
How about this: revert Wake Up and leave it alone. Focus that manpower into dealing with slugging, tunneling, and camping—which are bigger issues to the survivor experience than someone using Wake Up.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878449#Comment_3878449
Anti-tunneling suggestions usually don’t include compensation buffs for chasing different survivors. Anti-slugging suggestions usually don’t include compensation buffs for hooking survivors. The anti-facecamp mechanic didn’t give killers compensation buffs for leaving a hooked survivor.
Why would they? The kill rate is 60% with those features. It is higher without them.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878439#Comment_3878439
My suggestion is a huge buff for everything except only one survivor being alive. It should be good for everyone….. except the people that specifically want to use the perk as the last survivor alive.
If BHVR now suddenly dislikes soloist builds they should buff actual ‘team’ focused perks
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878415#Comment_3878415
Sole Survivor should be reworked, and Wake Up should have a limited value if only one survivor is alive.
Making Wake Up +12.5% if only 1 survivor is fine, but 50% if 2 or more survivors are alive, works too. That would still be a large buff for everything except the "only 1 survivor is alive" scenario.
At this point just stay out of a survivors’ business. That is a favor you can do for us all.
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@Nazzzak said:
There's no evidence that people were even using it selfishly. The buff never made it out of PTB, they just decided to nerf it because "some feedback" suggested it MIGHT get used selfishly (according to a dev). The only people I've seen claiming it's used selfishly are those who don't even play survivor, which tells me all I need to know. I've never met a Wake Up rat, they're an imaginary boogeyman created to ensure survivors once again get nothing decent.
I don’t see survivors who hide all match very often (maybe 1 out of 50 or more games), but I notice them when I come across them. The last I saw had Left Behind and a Skeleton Key. What’s interesting is that super immersed survivors aren’t running Wake up or even Soul Survivor; they’re using perks to remain hidden throughout the match and tools to escape at the end. They’re more likely to try for hatch than risk a gate, which exposes their location to the killer.
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@MrMori said:
I just don't get why they claim to want to make it an "altruistic perk" but then keep it at 25% for 2v1 and barely make it faster for 3v1. Opening gates when there's only 2 people left is one of the most altruistic things you can do, putting yourself at risk of being spotted by the killer and opening an escape for both survivors, giving the other survivor time to open the other gate.
Even if you just open the gate and get out in a 2v1, now the other survivor has a much better chance of living, since they can now either escape through hatch, the open gate, or even begin to open the other gate while the killer has to patrol the first two.
And Sole Survivor + Wake Up has never been a complaint by anyone really. If 50% bonus on Wake Up is too much when paired with Sole Survivor, why not make wake up 25% when you're the last survivor, but 50% otherwise? What a strange nerf.
If they actually wanted people to use Wake Up for reasons other than ratting, they could also improve the info it gives to other survivors. Why can't it just show the exit gates to everyone in the trial at all times once gates are powered, as well as your aura to everyone when you're opening a gate? That would make it kind of like Kindred but for gates. So much they could do before they weirdly nerf/sidegrade an already niche perk.
Honestly it comes down to killer mains complaining about the buff during PTB. You see at least one here in this thread complaining about how survivors use it to harm each other by hiding. BHVR again listened to this nonsense and nerfed an already underused (1% pickrate) perk. You didn’t see complaints about Wake Up, Wake Up + Sole Survivor, or Sole Survivor because survivors don’t complain about these perks. Killers however feel robbed of a 4K when a survivor gets value from them although they’ll say they’re concerned about survivors using them against one another.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
And yet the survivors escape rate is about 40% which is what the Devs were aiming for. The nature of the game is that it's supposed to be challenging for survivors to escape. It's not supposed to be the looping frenzy that it was becoming, where survivors feel comfortable to literally run circles around a killer with no fear or urgency at all.
I played a few survivor matches earlier and I escaped couple times. Died more than I escaped but that's to be expected.
Mind you this data does not include matches with DCs or hatch escapes, which could change the data.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878137#Comment_3878137
BHVR devs have stated that the only thing that matters for survivors is getting out. They don't care if you do gens or loop the killer or rescue your teammates. They only care about whether you escape or not.
Besides, doesn't the tutorial or the store blurb have something like 'Help your fellow survivors… Or don't.' in it?
Yes, this is the tagline for the game in its description on steam and in the PlayStation store. No dev has ever said survivors are required to work as a team, help other survivors, or sacrifice themselves. No dev has ever come out and said the intended mechanic for survivors is teamwork. The closest I’ve seen is when Peanits said something about how survivors are also resources for one another. Beyond that, the devs have been ardent that survivors can play with their own survivors in mind. This isn’t griefing or whatever; it’s acceptable survivor gameplay .
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878076#Comment_3878076
Which is precisely why sadako still needs some help. I don't know why they keep making her slowdown part of her power so bad that survivors can just ignore it by just turning off a TV everytime they get a chance, and then not giving her an actual chase power.
I think because she can’t have overwhelming slowdown but also be a menace in chase or you end up with the second version of Sadako (slugako?) that had no counter play. She’s either spamming condemn and slugging people, or hit and run spamming then slugging people. She needs something now but I’m not really sure what. BHVR should just avoid making killers that have mandatory passive slowdown features (pin, sad, kru) as it tends to be difficult to balance them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Not quite. Survivors wake up when they're put into the Dying state. So the rescuer has to use an alarm clock before they try to pick up a slug.
I think the concern is how tedious the alarm clocks might be a month or two after this update. You pretty much have to use an alarm clock before you do anything. That's going to get old really fast, and players are going to stop doing it, similar to how some players would rather ignore Sadako's tapes entirely than spend half the trial messing with them.
The difference between Freddy and Sadako’s passive slowdown mechanics are that survivors are punished for ignoring alarms. Nightmare has anti-loop potential and can teleport on top of healing (including injured but picking up a slug) survivors who are asleep. Sadako cam do nothing of the sort.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877943#Comment_3877943
because devs officially said that they technically can't determine when kobe was used in an "go next" manner and when not. Solution: remove kobe, unless you have dedicated perks.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877965#Comment_3877965
do a full record of a match where somebody does it, file a report to BHVR and see report feedback and action taken for griefing.
I can answer that—nothing happens, because it isn’t reportable. It’s not griefing. A survivor could hide all match (a lot of baby survivors do) occasionally interacting with a gen and that’s not going to get them banned. Just a killer slugging 4 survivors and repeatedly picking them up, dropping them, then slugging them again won’t get them banned for griefing even though it is not the intended gameplay loop.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877765#Comment_3877765
i remember playing vs that gen kick combo. Here are also a few things I remember. The 3 gen spread on a lot of maps were so bad that killers could just say in the 3 gen and never leave. The new Eruption came out before the survivor hud so solo que had it the worst because they didn’t know if someone was in chase or when they would go down. Overcharge and call of brine would take a lot of the progress away and eruption would take even more. Every killer could use it. From Myers to blight, every killer could use it fine and get results. I had a Wesker keep us for 36 minutes once with that build
I also remember the same killer mains from this thread saying that “survivors needs to use there game sense” to counter the perk or “use empathy” to counter the perk
I think the funniest one was when some said that eruption was fine and that all you need to do is and I quote “go look around the map and see what pallets you got while you were incapacitated”. Like what does that do for you.
They were literally saying “just have game sense” during the erupt-over-brine META. At that point I knew they weren’t serious about balance. Any subsequent argument by those people—whom still routinely post in these forums here today—is met with defacto mistrust by me. They cannot be trusted.
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@Bookern said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877769#Comment_3877769
Like mirrored illusion perk? What about when copying the build you copy their look too?
Yes, like mirrored illusion but for other survivors with the option to place the image wherever the user wants. I think it would be fine if it didn’t copy their build in this instance.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877928#Comment_3877928
ignoring rest of the match and just preparing yourself for escape is considered griefing and is bannable
This is a lie. Please don’t spread false information.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877928#Comment_3877928
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/36ACHCRI8OZP/image.png
BHVR said the crux of the problem is that solo survivors don't work together as much as SWF. You can read the official quote right here. It's an official BHVR answer.
You are misinterpreting Mike’s statement. He is saying there is no synergy between solo survivors, while SWFs have that. But the lack of synergy between solo survivors is by design, not coincidence.
The HUD was created to cultivate synergy between solo survivors so that survivors were not dependent on perks to create opportunities for synergy.
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@Bookern said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877766#Comment_3877766
Duration and more charges is all I can think of
Maybe an iri could take a picture of the survivor and create a static copy the person who took the picture can place somewhere, like as a decoy.
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I like it. What would some of the add-ons do?
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877744#Comment_3877744
oh my gosh yeah, it was 16 charges instant regression + survivor couldn't do Anything for 30 seconds + the gen regressed for those 30 seconds for an effective 53.5 seconds of survivor time erased, and then COB + Overcharge would regress gens at 400% normal regression (equal to solo repair speed), absolutely disgusting stuff
It was awful. As survivor you could not get through a match; they went on for as long as the killer wanted (or didn’t). So many people want that back though. So. Many. People.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877683#Comment_3877683
Eruption wasn't nerfed because of 3 gen strategies, it was nerfed because gen kick in general was way too strong and Eruption in particular erased + prevented close to a full minute of survivor time, per survivor affected, per proc. Killers could get one hook every 3-4 minutes and end the game with 2 or fewer gens completed.
That said, it was overnerfed IMO and I would have preferred they knock it back down to where it was before 6.1, but that's a whole different point entirely
Eruption was also nerfed to disrupt its synergy with overcharge and call of brine. Remember how it prevented survivors from doing anything, literally anything, for at least 60 seconds at a time?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877257#Comment_3877257
That's not the same thing. If survivors start hiding when the killer is slugging for the 4k, they waited until the near end of the game to be selfish.
I'm talking about the people that decide BEFORE the game has even started, that their selfish plan is for their teammates to die. When people equip perk combos like Wake Up + Sole Survivor + Left Behind, the vast majority of the time, it's not for a backup plan. The vast majority of the time, they are doing this because they want to sandbag their team, so they have the highest chances of escaping.
I stopped reading after “iTs DiFfErEnT” when it comes to killers. You could have saved us both a lot of time by just using those two words.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877405#Comment_3877405
Unfortunately, it seems to be working.
MMW: Exhaustion is on the block next.
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877384#Comment_3877384
There is a difference between mindless blaming from mean killer mains and obvious learned helplessness. There are not enough buffs you could throw at solo queue players to save them not knowing how to play the game unless they just make it a cinematic of you doing gens then escaping.
That dwight with 0 hooks can do at least help me last long enough that everyone else escapes whether that's taking hits or letting me eat time on hook. If you unironically just crawl up into a ball and break down when killer tries killing you on a bad map then I really hope I don't get you in my games.
You’re dismissed.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877373#Comment_3877373
Selfishness and rat behaviour is the main reason solo'q is unplayable at times.
Is this the new thing that will start getting pushed? I'll happily debate anyone over why this statement is just false.
Some players are so conditioned to play for themselves that learning even a little basic teamplay would change a lot
Oh, gotcha. I'd ask why you feel this way? Prefacing with 'some players' could be any extreme or just… 2. How much of this statement do you really think is accurate? Not trying to flame but I'm really curious why you feel that statement is true.
@NarkoTri1er Actually that makes sense. Its still really dumb imo. But it makes sense through a bhvr lens I suppose.
We saw the first hint of this during the PtB for Reassurance but it as a killer main talking point that came to a head with and following the Distortion nerf. All you heard then were killer mains saying Distortion is unfair for other survivors, they have to tunnel because of it, what if all four survivors bring it then they can’t find anyone, it’s selfish to other survivors, etc. I don’t recall any survivor mains actually complaining about Distortion though.
As @Firellius said in another conversation it’s too on the nose for killer mains to just plainly say they dislike perks that provide survivors with an edge in otherwise hopeless situations (effectively a chance against the 4K), so they’re coming up with weasely ways to say it without saying it.
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@LeFennecFox said:
Selfishness and rat behavior is the main reason solo queue is unplayable at times. Some players are so conditioned to play for themselves that learning even a little basic teamplay would change a lot. Wake up change is just bhvr tier balancing though odd choice.
I know it’s part of a killer’s mantra to blame survivors for every failed game mechanic that unravels them but as a survivor main?
Survivors incompetence, overbloated killer buffs, aggressive killer playstyles, and survivor nerfs are the main reasons solo queue is unplayable. Stealthy survivors are the least of any other survivor’s concern.
No survivor ends a match thinking, “man if only that Dwight wasn’t hiding I wouldn’t have been tunneled/slugged/camped out of the match on Haddonfield. I would have won if only they’d been doing gens while the killer relentlessly pursued me across this shoebox of a map.”
Talk to survivor mains for a change instead of regurgitating trite killer talking points. -
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877199#Comment_3877199
ouch that is so bad. 33% escape rate.
Considering it’s an endgame perk? Yes, it is.
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They shouldn’t have touched this perk at all. Their reasoning is bullshit; I suspect it was nerfed because killer mains complained about the 50% + 50% + 10% (Resilience) + 10% (Spine Chill) possible gate opening speed.
If it were actually about neutering final survivor perks, or perks they perceive to be anti-altruistic, they would need to nerf:
Soul Survivor
Left Behind
Low Profile
Fast Track
Distortion (again)
Self-care (again)
Self-preservation
Bond
Deliverance
Keys + attachments
Hatch in general
And a slew of other perks/items/mechanics that supplant ‘altruism.’
But it isn’t really about altruism; it’s about people complaining about a single survivor opening the exit gate in 10 seconds after everybody else has died.
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They didn’t change this to ‘discourage’ anything. They buffed it to 50% on the PTB, killer mains complained about it being paired with Sole Survivor, it was nerfed. The only reason BHVR is hiding behind their given excuse—which makes no logical sense, by the way, given the description for this game and dozens of other perks—is because they don’t want to cause an uproar by saying the perk was too strong. Even with the way it will scale you’re unlikely to reach 50% as it requires 4 survivors to make it to EG. At that point you don’t even need a perk for faster exit gate opening.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877241#Comment_3877241
Perspective is very important. Do you really think BHVR sat down and intentionally designed a perk for players to sit in the corner and ignore the entire match? The storefront description was probably written years ago and hasn't been touched since launch. What reason would they have to edit the storefront page for the base game? New content is delivered to the game through Chapters. I genuinely believe that BHVR's reaction to seeing the store page used as an argument earlier today was "Oh, that's on there? Hmm. Interesting. Didn't know that."
It's more likely that they had a specific use case in mind when designing the Sole Survivor. Most games end with one player alive at the end. Giving that player options and utility gives room for a niche perk. The low perk utilization rate is an indicator that we are spending a lot of time and effort today balancing a low priority issue.
There are specific challenges and achievements that require survival, hatch escapes, so on and so forth. One of the hardest achievements in the game is attainable only if you are the last survivor standing in the trial. All of this is intentional.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877238#Comment_3877238
BHVR should nerf all of the perks that encourage survivors to have a selfish playstyle, where the survivor decides before the match has even started, that their strategy is to wait for the other survivors to die, so they can use their "last man standing" perks.
And the Steam description should be reworded, because it should be considered unsportsmanlike sandbagging, when a survivor decides, before the match has even started, that their priority is their teammates dying.
You can’t police survivor intent and you cannot force them to all fall down for your 4K.
BHVR will never force—implicitly or explicitly—survivors to play in a narrow way. This logic follows suit with how they aren’t forcing killers to abandon a slug/tunnel/camp playstyle.
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It isn’t broken. I’ve seen 25-75 on survivor at various times over the past week and 50 on killer a few times as well. I haven’t seen either at 100%, however.
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@foolsparadise said:
sometimes it feels like they're putting the names of perks on a dart board and just nerfing whatever they hit
it has a 1% pick rate according to nightlight, and a 33% escape rate (meaning survivors with this perk escape 33% of their matches while the perk is equipped).
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I don’t understand why it’s being nerfed. They could have simply left it untouched altogether.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877117#Comment_3877117
nobody cares about it's pickrate, it's always a good decision to nuke perks that promote unsportsmanlike kind of gameplay, and this perk has no practical use other than letting your team die to get gate escape.
You sound like a killer main who would have gotten that 4K if not for Wake Up.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876620#Comment_3876620
I've had multiple matches where one teammate brings a hatch offering and hides the entire match. When they get called out in the post game chat for doing nothing, the response is "sorry I had a daily to escape as ________". Solo queue is miserable enough already. At least we could have challenges that encourage being a good teammate.
Older survivor tome challenges are the same: they require survivors to do weird things that essentially throw matches. New challenges are a little better until around page 3-4. But I’d always found it curious that survivors had to like go out of their way to complete their challenges while killers could get things done with normal gameplay.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876378#Comment_3876378
I disagree with you, but I also think you are making very good points that need to be heard.
-Increase their gen timesI'm trying to do the mental gymnastics here because I do not develop the game for a living. To implement this idea, they would need to track whether you are in a SWF or not based on something., Then they would need to fundamentally change trial rules based on this. The only way I see this implemented, in the current form, is if they split the queue and make SWF a separate game mode. That is a lot of effort and time investment—and I don't see BHVR change control approving this if they made a business case for it.
-Can't stack same perksI genuinely agree with you on this. Anyone who has really played this game cannot forget at one point in time, the biggest problem we had was every survivor literally ran the same build. Back then, you had to play Borrowed Time or you were the worst teammate on the planet. Everyone played it, and so on. If DBD ever gets a competitive mode, I 100% think the perks should be in a community chest and either limited by perk rarity (yellow-limited, green-semi limited, purple-unlimited) or 1 copy per survivor.
-Can't bring in tools and have to use chests in the match to get tools or limiting what level of tools then bring into the match, like maybe just brown with no add-ons so that Killers can't determine who's SWF and who's not.I need more time to sit and process your idea here. I think you might be onto something, but limiting player choice always looks bad on paper. Just because it looks bad does not mean that it is in practice. I'm trying to remember 2v8 where you could not bring items in with you—and how intentional/impactful of a decision it felt. A lot more chests were opened and used. Very happy matches.
So it's literally only logical that a targeted mechanic change for SWF is needed to compensate for their comms and the plethora of information and perks that they receive just by being on comms, whether each SWF plays with comms or not is irrelevant.I have a different perspective, but I still think you have made a valid argument here. If I am in a SWF, I would not need to run Empathy because I should be getting this information for free. This allows me to select a stronger perk and use the slot more effectively. Where we disagree is how we process that advantage. From your perspective, you believe that SWF should be nerfed so it is equal to SoloQ. In order to make your solution come to life, the rules of the game would have to be fundamentally changed to balance it. To me, this is just not realistic. I am trying to imagine myself as a BHVR employee and how I would ever get this business case approved. Even if every content creator agreed with you and yelled it from the top of the mountain, it just would not be applicable. Sitting between you and the solution you want to implement is a large mountain of "why?" "why?" "why?" that need to be addressed.
- "Why can't SoloQ be at an equivalent level to SWF? It would be cheaper to balance, and would resolve the same problem."
- "Why should we do this? What problem would this solution solve? How many people in the community have the problem?"
- "Why do the fundamental trial rules need to be changed to implement a solution and balance the game?"
SWF groups that don't thrive off bullying the Killer wouldn't be affected by any of this either, they'd still enjoy playing with their friends.I'm not going to play armchair psychologist because that is not my place, but I do wonder how much of your opinion is influenced by SWF groups collaborating together to take agency away from the killer role. Is the real problem there is too much counterplay?
Killers wouldn't be so so so justly angry and then would only have to deal with their skill instead of unfair circumstances that SWF bring currently, that cause all the nasty gameplay SoloQ gets the brunt of.I disagree with the way you arrived at this conclusion, but you have a very sound conclusion here. Killers should be in the power role, and it feels really crappy when that agency is taken away from the killer player. I just don't believe in my heart that players communicating with each other is the real issue. It seems that what the game lets players do with that information is the issue.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876381#Comment_3876381
I have a different perspective. I personally believe Kindred should be basekit to help buff SoloQ to SWF. In a thread in the Feedback and Suggestions forum, two other players shared very strong negative opinions towards the killer aura reveal in basekit kindred. I want to give them a chance to explain their opinion before I form one, so I do not have a complete solution mapped out yet. But I am sure that there is a way to give information and agency to players in a way that allows them to perform similar to SWF groups.
… which is why the game gets balanced based off of SWF and as we can all see, it's been ruining SoloQ and creating toxic Killers who just want to ruin the games of Survs.I'm trying to follow the pattern of thought here. In your scenario, a killer plays against a SWF, loses, gets upset, and wants to make the next group miserable. But how does the killer know they are playing against a SWF? I'm sure you recognize how dangerous the Salem Witch Trial level of thinking is. Sometimes when I play SoloQ, I like to copy other peoples' outfits. I've also been accused by killers of playing in a SWF because a random player saved me with a flashlight blind. I was sitting alone in my office, LOL. Unless the game has a way to identify and report that players are playing together, we can't just rely on gut instinct.
I literally cannot logically think of a reason that anyone would be advocating for anything other than direct SWF nerfs that isn't based in selfishness. Like SWF nerfs would "punish" SWF yet everyone else, the majority of players in this game, are punished because of how broken SWF is rn and that is somehow okay. It's selfish.Sometimes I think it is important to parrot things back so you can get an opportunity to read what was written from another person. You believe that SWFs are broken because they have the ability to communicate with each other and get a gameplay advantage.
- I disagree, and I've laid out the reason I think this way above. I hope you at least consider what I have shared. The developers are real people, and they are just as strategic as the game they make. This is not an easy problem to solve, or it would have.
You believe that SWFs remove agency from the killer role, which causes significant frustration, and may feed into the epidemic.
- None of the solutions you discussed actually address this issue. What perks/items are causing these issues? We need to be specific when designing solutions. What about the SWFs removes agency from the killer/power role? I've played for thousands of hours, but I think any solution handed to the developers needs to be specific with intent out of respect for their time.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876383#Comment_3876383
Anyone who posts on the forums cares enough about the game to make an account and share their opinion. It's important to Talk It Through and Think It Out. We are all on the same team. Just because we disagree does not mean we are enemies/should be rude. :)
Song Title: Talk It Through, Think It Out
On the topic of Kindred, the hook bubble fully conceals the killer’s aura so you can’t actually see the killer until they’re around 12 meters from the hook. And the AFC kicks in at 16 meters. The bubble effectively negates the killer aura reading portion of Kindred. As for survivors seeing each other while one is on hook, the HUD covers that well enough.
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Oni and Artist are the rarest in my games.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876372#Comment_3876372
Proven where? By what? There’s anecdotal evidence at best, and we’ve all had games against people who are significantly worse than us.
Right that seems like a total lie.
@Glaive said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876337#Comment_3876337
It’s been proven time and time again that Behaviour alters the matchmaking of popular content creators (Fog whisperer's), ie giving them easier matches, it’s better for their content having easier games and makes the game look more appealing to those watching streams/youtube videos, I’m no fan of Tru all he does is complain, but his games are far more difficult then Otz, he goes against organised players that actually know what they are doing, Otz seems to go against mediocre players despite the fact he has over 10k hours and wins a lot, Tru was a Fog whisperer at one point but he no longer receives this special matchmaking privilege.
Did tru3 tell you this? It sounds like something he has said on stream before.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875576#Comment_3875576
Rarity doesn't change the fact that its a problem and led to the games eventual downfall and likely will lead to DBDs as well.
Just because something is rare doesn't mean it is balanced. My question to you is, are you one of the ones who thinks killers like blight are too strong? Do you think nurse is too strong? After all, it is rare for someone to go against a killer that can just 4k at 5 gens with these killers. So they are fine right? Is nurse fine? Is she balanced? After all, in most games, she's actually below average in terms of kill rate when you look at the average games played. Its only in the hands of that "rare" 4k hour nurse main that she's able to destroy everyone while trolling.
Watch a tru3ta1ent video some time. I know he gets a lot of flak, but look at the caliber of teams that he constantly goes against. This is also the kind of thing i see, almost every game, all p100s, bringing in crazy medkits, instaheals, bnps, all survivors with DS/DH/Hyperfocus with cracked toolboxes almost every single game (on my main killers anyway)
BHVR tiers its killer characters but that isn’t unique to them: pretty much every multiplayer game does this, assym or not. Blight, Nurse, Hillbilly, Spirit—these kills occupy a particular echelon of power & that’s fine.
Every killer has a kill rate above 50% (including Nurse) so not a single one of them is struggling to win more than survivors any percentage of the time. They’re all winning more than any configuration of survivors; solo, 2, 3, and even 4-man SWF. But I do think it’s important to have killers with a range of strength. There need to be killers that are as strong (or weak, if you believe it) as… I dunno, Trapper and the current version of Nightmare too. And yes there should be killers as strong as Nurse and Blight as well.
Otzdarva is a more skilled killer than tru3 and he doesn’t face that kind of stuff. He’s likely at the same MMR bracket as tru3 as well. So why is it just that tru3 constantly faces these things while his cohorts do not?
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876313#Comment_3876313
There's absolutely no way to block comms on the consoles though, and they make up the vast majority of the overall playerbase.
And again, this suggestion would wreak queue times. Players joke about this thing or that killing off the game, but this idea prolly would.
BHVR could block it by not allowing Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft to access their game. But they cannot force any one of those companies to abandon their in-system communication settings. And they can’t produce updates to DbD that interfere with the console’s communication system either of they’ll be sued.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876178#Comment_3876178
Much much much higher. The community overall lacks critical thinking though so it always get's glossed over. Same as how SWF is the core issue that's ruining the game for everyone else.
Love it or hate it, but I don’t think this game could survive without SWF.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Probably DS/Deli/Exhaustion/Deja Vu
It's tempting to throw on Sole Survivor+Wake Up, but you're playing against your teammates in those situations too. Most killers will slug for the 4k, and there are tons of solo players who will rat you out if the killer is slugging for a 4k. Or they'll struggle on the hook for no reason to deny you hatch. They take grave offense to the fact that you're not saving or doing gens in a 3v1 or 2v1 with 3+ gens remaining. It's a truly touched/mentally cooked community.
You can offset the survivor suspicion by bringing a toolbox (doesn’t need to have any attachments) and working on gems whenever someone else is in chase. When no one is in chase stealth a bit until someone else is. The other survivors tend to focus on the HUD more when the killer is occupied so they’ll see you doing something productive and feel more inclined to believe you’re not playing to their detriment.
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Who the hell uses Saboteur?
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875865#Comment_3875865
LOL my friend too early to make me laugh so hard xd ty.
I feel you’re my protege, the same way I was a protege of Sluzzy. You will lead them when my time here ends.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875398#Comment_3875398
Everyone quotes a different escape rate for SWF almost every single time it's brought up. IDC for BHVR's tilted stats anyway.
It's quite clear from a gameplay perspective that SWF is ruining this game for everyone else and has been for years and years. Maybe you guys will start listening when it gets so bad that BHVR puts bots in all the game modes, but by then it'll be too late and rightfully so.
You’re right, the stats are tilted. They don’t count matches with DCs. The kill rates are higher than BHVR says.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875955#Comment_3875955
Again, I'm not reading all that. But if your struggling to loop this killer, thats a skill issue, shes balanced, get over ur one negative experience against her and move on.
Edit: i looked at all of those clips and can confirm none of those survivors know how to counter the killer or they just didn't win 50/50's which most powers don't even affect. For example, the Adam in the first clip insta stunned the dog and tanked the hinder instead of wasting time on the pallet to try and doible stun which he likely could get since when that pallets up, its not a 50/50
Pls actually develop experience before trying to make insane claims about an already hard to play character who is perfectly balanced with her dozen bugs.
The tl;dr of @zarr’s comment is that with a little bit of experience you can reliably force lose/lose with the Houndmaster. He provides some examples of this in the clips he’s shared. At least in that first clip that Adam would have been hit either way. If he didn’t stun the dog which still got him presumably due to ping, the Houndmaster would have been close enough to either strike him or if Adam tried to greed the dog could have just got him over the pallet and she could go around to get him just like she did. If you play Knight she’s kind of like him but like a lot better with her 2v1 potential.
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@XtremeDBD said:
C
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875964#Comment_3875964
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875964#Comment_3875964
Corrupt isn't gonna stop a team like this, its not hard to just stealth it out. Thats how competitive players used to play some years back. And it is a pretty good and annoying strategy, AND arguably can make things worse if they all slowly split up across to 4 different gens. The point tho is not to run a perk, its that u shouldn't need perks to stop the game from ending so fast
Civ is a game where you build civilizations. It’s super chill and low maintenance. You’re too young to get the reference. Let me explain.
A long time ago when survivor mains complained about ######### things killers were doing—sorta like now—a dev told survivor players on a stream to go play another game: Civ. I believe he is no longer with BHVR; I think he was fired in fact, but he gave that advice because in his mind it was wiser to tell his customers to buy a different product if they don’t like his rather than fix his product. Anyway, I bring it up because you seem to be struggling a lot with this game. Maybe you’d prefer something less cerebral.