The last update was just a continuation of the continual decline of any skill related to killer.
I've been playing this game since 2016 and have seen balance on both sides. A year or two ago, I would get to red rank with both killer and survivor. The last 18 months have been nothing but continual survivor nerfs and the continual decline of any type of skill needed by killer to 4k during matches.
This recent patch where tons of dead zones are now on maps, and you really can't do anything as survivor, should not surprise anyone that has followed the updates or have come on these forums. For months anyone with an opinion that this game is not survivor sided has been bashed or banned from posting on here. I see 10x more posts and people getting attacked if they say anything about survivor no longer being fun or issues with the current balance. The mods have really turned this forum into a cesspool of people who have created an alternate reality of the balance of the game. The mods also seem to turn a blind eye to anyone attacking someone who argues for survivor balance. This has obviously created more of an echo chamber.
4-5 months ago escape ratios were released. Which showed overwhelmingly that this game was killer sided. To my disbelief, people still argued that even though all killers at red ranks have over a 50 percent kill ratio, some over 70 percent, that this game was still survivor sided.
Through your "balance" you have made this game just awful to play on survivor side. You have taken out the mind games. You've destroyed any type of critical thinking in the chase for killer. You've released a killer who completely destroys any resemblance of balance in a chase by giving that killer a long range gun. This game is overwhelmingly killer sided. To state otherwise is to deny reality.
I keep hearing about how killer got a few balance patches to nurse and ruin. Please. Look at the list that shows survivor nerfs compared to killer nerfs, you'll see that the list is 10x lengthier. Nobody should be surprised that this has become run in straight line simulator. We are living the meme. Expect even more nerfs to survivor in the future. They won't be done until every 10k hour lunchbox is able to 4k with ease.
Comments
OmG ThE KilLEr PlAyed WelL aNd BeaT mE KillErS ArE so FavOrEd
While I'm not personally that bothered about many of the balance changes that have happened it would be nice to get a survivor buff once in a while. Not a perk change, not a killer nerf, something that buffs survivors, even if it's something tiny.
The fact you are complaining about a medkit that's not instant is hilarious to me.
Complaining about god loops is also funny when pretty much everyone at red ranks was playing a killer or build that could nullify them. Go ahead, run the god loop against the nurse, spirit, oni in their power, windstorm wraith, bamboozle legions, etc.
Killer is easy, and most of the red rank killers were already 4king solo Q teams with ease before this patch. I'm not saying survivor is hard, but making killer braindead easy across the board encourages the blendette meta. And that's actually the most resident sleeper thing I can think of.
So wait, there has been a decline in killer skill? As if survivor has taken skill to play ever? This game isnt skillful no matter what truetalent tells you buddy. This is a casual party game that the devs want fun for both sides.
70% kill rate 2.8 kills per game... so he's mostly loosing matches...
So the killer is loosing all but 30% of games and this is OP to you???
And those stats where redrank where they can be matched with rainbow ranks and hook suicides and DC and even then they lost over and over again driving the kill rates high.
Here's so facts you missed. Killers are leaving the game in droves so much so that the matchmaking is broken leaving to 20minute survivor ques.
And whiles its true that gen repair has gotten a entire three seconds longer when repairing in a group
And infinite loops are gone on 2 maps oh geeze
You've already forgot about how the entire killer meta was nerfed into the ground because survivors can't handle hitting skillchecks
And hook Sabo is 2.5 seconds its easier to break a hook in a killers face then ever
But of course its skill when you succeed but all luck when you die ? Childish call of duty mindset.
I've go 7-10 games in a row never touching a gen and still escaping without perks... just because sfw teamwork is that effective. Survivor is the power role don't kid yourself and these slight map changes won't bring killers back. But please enjoy your 2-3 minutes of skillfully running round a car or a long wall like Scooby-Doo monster Nascar lap. Only to activate one of 12 second chance perks to repeat again at the next loop.
Bait post, just get good, good survivors don't need infinites/ god loops.
@SweetPrecious the long survivor queue times beg to differ.. the wait times have been increasing like crazy over the past few months for survivors, why? Because playing killer sucks.
So what did they do to make killer more attractive? They balanced the maps.. because guess what? No Killers = No Game
(@Ascended4Head)
You must love the new patch. Way more mindgame potential and not just braindead god loops.
The thing about long queue times is just freaking true right now.
I cannot get into games without waiting 10 minutes and there is a good chance the Killer DCs anyways (I run Object on solo)
Wasn't he the guy that complained this patch has "deadzones"?
Image be needing god windows and tile chains to win as survivor. Sounds like you belong in green ranks my friend.
This was done, so that the killer can close the hatch to start EGC. Imagine you killed 3 people, 1 gen got done and the last one is a urban blendette, just wandering around for 10 minutes straight holding the game hostage. This was a thing before EGC, believe it or not. People who got salty and went into a corner, spammed an emote to not get any crows and just sit there.
They wanted to prevent these kind of games -> EGC timer. That way the killer can end the game without relying on the survivor to show themself or do a generator.
Yes there is a rng factor to the hatch if it didnt spawned yet, but honestly I'd rather end the game and get into the next one than being forced to look around the map for a long period of time.
Btw the whole EGC is "killer sided". The early hatch + extra BP are probably the only upside (at least that I can think of rn) for survivors, everything else benefits the killer. Before EGC survivor could open the gates straight away and now they need to 99% the gates. Cant count how many times I got caught bc of these 99% doors, how many surv I caught/I died of bc the EGC ran out. Surv that 99% the gate, which you can capitalize of, is more likely than 4 survivors that cant do at least 2-3 gens.
Yes many mindgames as I crouch around with blendette.
I love how people think killer is hard to play. It is hard to play fair, but it's not hard to play dirty.
Otzdarva just had a video showcasing how you can guaranteed 2k every single game with bubba getting 3 M1 hits. 2 M1's to down the first guy, facecamp him with a chainsaw. 1 M1 with NOED at the endgame, facecamping him with a chainsaw. 2k+ for doing basically nothing, and that's if the team is playing unaltrustic which usually isn't the case. But killer is hard. Keep telling yourself that.
Unless you are in an extremely well coordinated SWF, you are definitely not winning against decent killers now. Solos don't stand a chance. Just played several games as solo, every killer was Spirit with Devour Hope that humped the totem, Huntress instant charge with 7 hatchets, Hillbilly Infectious Freight with Spirit Fury. I don't know why anyone would play solo anymore unless you love dying. The game is turning into a bloodbath every game. Not fun playing survivor I can tell you that.
Killer still takes skill, it's just a bit less frustrating. Survivors are still in a solid spot imo.
solo not they should just add voice chat at this point.
Just because a killer is skilled shouldn't guarantee a 4K every game unless it is a sweaty SWF genrushing. That ain't fun.
It's a horror game. Get used to dying I guess. I'm just tired of killers complaining all the time and I'm hoping this update can appease them. Obviously it's not working, even with everything they asked for they still are extremely unsatisfied. Sad.
It is. Killers are guilty of being the most entitled.
I mean look at some of my average bloodwebs. Keep in mind with BBQ I can clear out about 1 of these per game.
Every single thing I circled I consider a super easy game. So you can nearly always be running OP stuff at least every other game as killer currently.
Wow
I hate survivors that are so blind to reasoning. Do.you understand how shallow the killer pool is? It wouldn't matter if you got 100 nerfs and killers only got 50 cause you started out strong to begin with. This is a 4v1. Not an easy task to balance but they are trying
You got SWF up everyone's ass most games.
This needs to happen, to fix your que times and to actually make killer enjoyable so people actually play it.
Unless you want to change the game from dbd to loop yourself simulator when all the killers are gone 🤣
ehh, i do agree with that they overnerfed a lot of maps with the deadzones (because its bullshit not having literally anything to work with on the map) but it was definitely fair for them to nerf god windows and god loops.
it didnt take any skill at all to buttfuck a god window
I'm not sure what game it is you've been playing, but you're either trolling or very disillusioned. The Devs just adjusted gen times from 28 sec complete with four Survivors, to 36 sec. However, PT got a big buff and toolboxes are almost all essentially Brand New Parts. They completely ignored the fact the PT synergy with items and numbers was the biggest issue. All of these 'nerfs' you talk about just get ironed out in the same patch, so it's never really been a nerf.
These map changes are FINALLY addressing abusable tiles that waste Killers time, and the dead zones should finally prove once and for all that most supposed 'red rank' survivors can't maintain without an swf team and easily abused mechanics to lean on. At NO point should the power ever be in the survivors hands so much that the Killer MUST spam Mori's and camp/tunnel/slug because they have no choice if they want even a 2k. Red Rank Killers are MUCH rarer then Survivors, and that's because it takes actual skill to get there.
Killers don't have teams of four to lean on. Killers can't instantly stop certain behaviors, like team swarming to rescue, or multiple teammates blocking to keep players from getting downed. They do everything BY THEMSELVES. Survivors should be on edge. They should be looking over their shoulder. This crap where survivors feel so safe they can teabag, flashlight click, gesture, and otherwise act smug is a direct result of coddling survivors.
SWF doesn’t mean 4-man. 2-4 man swf is what most people play.
do gens 4head
I’m wondering. If killers being able to vacuum survivors off ground and onto hooks is balanced too, because that’s still in the game??
Lol killer is 100x more skillfull than survivor, what are you even talking about
It also contains AFK wraiths and red rank survivors being put against green rank killers.
Ok so I stopped reading when you talked about released stats of kill ratio. people love trowing that saying killer are op. the same stat say Nurse has the second worst escapre ration despite being on of the top tier killer that has virutally no counter. See, stats mean nothing if you don't know how to analyse them...
There's plenty of killers that are braindead easy. I consider Freddy and Spirit incredibly easy. Nurse is also pretty easy once you have the muscle memory for her, which I do since I have been maining killer for 3+ years now.
I'd argue solo Q survivor is significantly more hard than killer. It's not uncommon to die on your first hook in red rank games, and you will be going up against the most overpowered things killers can muster regularly.
Windstorm wraith can bodyblock any infinite. Bamboozle legion hard-counters any infinite window, as well as anyone running bamboozle really. But him extra hard since he just vaults it and blocks it straight after you for his free hit.
As I demonstrated in the post above, you can almost be running a mori every 1/3 games if you wish. A tunnel mori at 5 gens instantly ends the game.
Killers still have a ~ton~ of super overpowered add-ons to use. There's the obvious culprits like perma tier 3 / iri heads / rusty shackles / etc. But there's also some other really bad combos like extra box + tampered timer pig. It's literally a set-and-forget mori. You get time to search 4 boxes when there are 5, so there's a 20% chance you just die no matter what from it.
Survivors have.....keys, which are endgame only. It's also incredibly hard to both find and gather up a solo Q team to the hatch.
Any killer who is bad in chase can still equip spirit fury + enduring. Or NOED. Those are some of the easiest downs in the game currently.
Just gonna leave my thoughts on the current balance.
1. Survivors have for the longest time been in a far more lenient spot to killers, with abilities that flat out ignore killers power, that deny mindgaming and counterplay, that flat out give the survivors an easy escape with nothing the killer can do about it. This is still an issue though bot as much as in the past.
2. The map changes (despite possible deadzones) were absolutley needed, ESPECIALLY at lower ranks. I am not a high tier killer, but even now when im chasing a survivor, i see them throw down pallet after pallet woth no effort to loop around them. I feel that when this happens early on that it might create SOME "SOME" of these deadzone issues that players are having.
3. Deathslinger countering chases, i mean, i dont have a lot of proof to support or deny this but, if you look at how many tools a survivor has during a chase, not just pallets and windows but the vast amount of perks that gove speed boosts, that ability to deny chases with massive stealth, i feel like a killer who can pull survivors towards him was a natural progression.
4. As far as the nerfs for killer v survivor. I started playing when this game first came out, havent always been on. However a lot of the changes we see now are still BHVR trying to adjust for those early issues. Killers may seem strong to you now but, remember, there was a time where windows could be infinite fast vaulted and you couldnt get to the survivor on the otherside, it was simply not possible. Survivors could heal mid chase and the killer could not attack fast enough to down them. Flashlights could stop killers in their tracks.
Im not saying every change has been perfect but to say "killers just want ez 4k bad killer noobs take no skillZ" just isnt right, its hard to balance this game but they have to make the 1 in the 4v1 actually a threat.
Imagine being mad they balanced out loops that if you understood how to run them. Couldn't be stopped by the killer for a certain period of time that guaranteed massive time on the gens.
Oh and being mad about 2 seconds added to gens. Just like the toolbox change the devs are low key giving survivors public service announcements on how to play smart. 4 survivors doing 4 different gens was always the best way to start. Now this is going to be more common of course.
I understand that this was done for the health of the game as the situation you stated was frustrating as hell but it cant be called a killer nerf, as much time as it took to find that last player, it was very rare that the fourth escaped during this time.
Dont get me wrong, I prefer the new gameplay as it still feels tense to the last minute but theres no denying more survivors have escaped due to this one mechanic now allowing them to escape with 4/5 gens left to go.
One of the only things that a survivor can do to escape killer being utterly useless by a broken mechanic isn’t powerful? One of the few counters to face camping isn’t as powerful? Lol k
I don't need otz to show me that. Several times he only got one kill because literally every pallet on the map was still available. He never got over 20k BP, most times it was around ~10k. And on top it was incredibly boring to watch and for him anyway. Is there some way to get over 20k in a match and get ~3k every match without skill? No? What are your complaints then?
Playing survivor got harder in that update, but playing killer is still more difficult and stressful af.
I'm not trying to represent Killers, I just take issue with someone making a bunch of wild statements without trying to back them up. It's the reason these forums are full of people just getting mad at each other.
Do you have a source for the 70% = 2.8 kills on average? I've never actually seem where the devs explained how they got the kill rate numbers (or why they expressed them through percentiles of all things).
I won't argue about Deathslinger or Dead zones, but you're not OP. As I said in the quote I'm not asking for evidence; just an explanation of why they think the way they do. Not just 'Deathslinger OP!' but 'Deathslinger OP because...'
This is as the same as my confusing question about his 'Killer's OP!' statement. You can't just say 'Killer' OP!' you need to explain WHY. I don't care if it's a bad explanation: I just want an explanation so that I and others can understand OP's position.
With regards to nerf quality vs. nerf quantity, I don't think you understand what I was saying at all.
I'm simply saying that the quality of nerfs is more important than the quantity of nerfs. I'm saying this because that is OP's argument: "Killer's are OP because Survivors have been nerfed more"
You can't "say the same of Balanced Landing or MoM" because I'm not talking about anything remotely applicable to them.
It's fine if she or he wants to talk about their experiences; but they need to ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES. This is how we get threads that are just people saying "X is OP!" and "X is not OP!" I could care less whether X is OP or not, but I get frustrated when I see people refusing to go into detail about WHY they think what they think.
To sum up: I'm not defending Killers or whatever. I'm just asking OP to provide an explanation for their view that Killer's are overpowered.
Are you serious? You never encountered someone that selfkills or DCs because "was found first" within the first 20 seconds, making the game a 3v1? You think that reflects in any way how the killer performs? You think that was a hopelessly lost situation? smh
And that's why I said this is a mashup of a lot of data and in no way representative, or do you want to argue that in total the mass of unknown side effects are totally fine and kinda balance out the stats? Would be an interesting guess. You wouldn't need stats at all if you argue like this.
I get what you are saying with quality and quantity nerfs. The ammount of nerfs does not really matter if those are just minor things, compared to really big changes. Your statement is obviously true and nobody questions that.
But the reality is, that survivors not only suffer from way more nerfs but also from more significant nerfs. Just compare them and then make a honest judgement.
What are the biggest killer nerfs to this point? The most complained about is Ruin, which had no where near as much inpact as for example the exhaustion nerf. This one was game changing, while ruin was just imidiatly replaced with a different yet even better perk.
Had a game last night as killer and the game was almost over in 5 minutes. I killed 2 survivors but they managed to power up the gates anyway. Unfortunately for them they didnt cleanse a single totem and with NOED I killed the other 2. It is obvious what they did wrong, they only concentrated on the gens and saboing my hooks, no one cleansed totems but in chat I got blamed for winning, they said NOED was OP, I had no skill (even though I killed 2 before endgame) etc etc. Why do some survivors refuse to do anything but gens and then complain when that doesnt win them the game?
Well, you cant balance the game around swf and solos at the same time. If you want killers to have a chance against swf, they will beat up solos.
If you balance around solos, they stand no chance against dedicated swfs.
As long as they try to balance both in the same game mode, they will fail.
Your reply and the upvotes to your post prove my point perfectly about this place. Its a safe space for self-victimising killer players, and day 1 survivors.
Go on. Post yours. :)
Honestly at this point the game is 90% SWF.. even if its just 2 or 3.
once again with the words in moth. No. Reading comprehension.
And Now take a little step further and think about why nobody wants to play solo? This game was constantly treated as a SWF vs KILLER game and solos got nearly 0 attention. If the devs would have focused on solos more we would have more players actually playing solo aswell which would make such an optional more reasonable than now.
Yes, but then killers wouls just lose to swf by default, and soon nobody would play killer.
I like solo survivor more than swf, because i like the experience with guessing where the killer is, if he is in a chase and anything.
But i played my fair share of swf and know how broken it is.
So, the solution is to make different lobbys for swf and solo, but swf dont like that idea, because their default win would go away if the swf lobby is actually balanced around swf.
The defs dont accept yet that thats one solution. The other solution is an ingame chat-channel outside of the lobby, to build an swf circle for yourself.
Yea because it takes so much skill to be forced to go through a loop 3 times I’m so happy god loops are gone
I agree. The solo experience is not great at all, but imo I feel like any decent buff you give that would greatly improve the solo experience would buff swf beyond belief. They could have it so perks differ depending on if you're a swf or a solo and that could work. That's a lot of work they'd have to put in though. Like DS and adrenaline imo are perfectly balanced in solo. They're deadly in the hands of a swf though.
Totem counter wouldn't buff SWF, chase indicator wouldn't buff SWF, aura of camping killer wouldn't buff SWF.. There are a lot of options if the devs would even try. But they don't try.